Refinance Mega Thread

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Futureplanner
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Futureplanner »

Anyone getting a 2.25% no cost 30?
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Futureplanner wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:45 pm Anyone getting a 2.25% no cost 30?
Rates and terms are pointless without specific numbers from the loan, no?
bestisfree
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:53 pm
bestisfree wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:29 am When there is closing cost to be financed, is that considered cash-out loan? I am wondering because I read that cash-out loans have a 6-month waiting period before it can be refinanced again.

The situation I am encountering:
When the loan amount overestimated the payoff (ex. due to a scheduled payment before closing), there would be an amount of closing cost to be financed.

example:
July 15: estimate remaining principal = $200,000, set loan amount to be $200,000
Aug 1: scheduled payment of $1000 ($500 interest, $500 principal)
Aug 2: the new remaining principal i= $199500, loan amount continues to be $200,000
Aug 3: the updated loan estimate says "closing cost to be financed (paid from your loan amount)" = $500"
Financing closing costs technically becomes a “limited cash out refi”. That said, a limited cash out is for all intents and purposes a rate and term refi. Without the “limited” option carved out years ago, it would have been a cash out refi.

That all said, if they overpay your prior lender because of a payment not accounted for, that doesn’t impact making this a cash-out or not as it is simply looking at loan amount - costs - payoffs > $2,000 = cash out refi.

If the old lender is overpaid for instance by $5k, that is still a rate and term refi even though the old lender will refund you the overpayment. Kind of a loophole, but that is also while payoffs can only be generated for up to about 45-60 days ahead, so the potential impact of this “loophole” is limited.
Thanks BrandonBogle.
That all said, if they overpay your prior lender because of a payment not accounted for, that doesn’t impact making this a cash-out or not as it is simply looking at loan amount - costs - payoffs > $2,000 = cash out refi.
Is the $2,000 a regulated limit or it's just some mock-up number?
The only thing that worries me is whether the small "$500" financed amount would effectively prohibit me from refinancing again within the next 6 months.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

bestisfree wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:55 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:53 pm
bestisfree wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:29 am When there is closing cost to be financed, is that considered cash-out loan? I am wondering because I read that cash-out loans have a 6-month waiting period before it can be refinanced again.

The situation I am encountering:
When the loan amount overestimated the payoff (ex. due to a scheduled payment before closing), there would be an amount of closing cost to be financed.

example:
July 15: estimate remaining principal = $200,000, set loan amount to be $200,000
Aug 1: scheduled payment of $1000 ($500 interest, $500 principal)
Aug 2: the new remaining principal i= $199500, loan amount continues to be $200,000
Aug 3: the updated loan estimate says "closing cost to be financed (paid from your loan amount)" = $500"
Financing closing costs technically becomes a “limited cash out refi”. That said, a limited cash out is for all intents and purposes a rate and term refi. Without the “limited” option carved out years ago, it would have been a cash out refi.

That all said, if they overpay your prior lender because of a payment not accounted for, that doesn’t impact making this a cash-out or not as it is simply looking at loan amount - costs - payoffs > $2,000 = cash out refi.

If the old lender is overpaid for instance by $5k, that is still a rate and term refi even though the old lender will refund you the overpayment. Kind of a loophole, but that is also while payoffs can only be generated for up to about 45-60 days ahead, so the potential impact of this “loophole” is limited.
Thanks BrandonBogle.
That all said, if they overpay your prior lender because of a payment not accounted for, that doesn’t impact making this a cash-out or not as it is simply looking at loan amount - costs - payoffs > $2,000 = cash out refi.
Is the $2,000 a regulated limit or it's just some mock-up number?
The only thing that worries me is whether the small "$500" financed amount would effectively prohibit me from refinancing again within the next 6 months.
You could finance $25k of closing costs (if they could get so high with escrows) and you would not have a cash-out refi. The $2k limit is set by Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac for classifying loans to be sold to them. There is a higher cost/less profit in selling the loans to them by lenders if it is a cash-out. The limit is on you receiving cash at closing (via cash, wire, check, etc). Paying other parties is not part of this.
dsmil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dsmil »

2.5% refinance with no lender fees/credits with Better.com, plus the $2k Amex credit. 76% LTV and a $420k loan in Maryland. I had to pull the plug on them last year because of a incompetent appraisal, but it's waived this time around.
dodgersummer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dodgersummer »

Please help:

-I refinanced a little over a year ago to a 15 year 2.625% loan with no closing costs
-Currently owe $198,000 with Zillow listing the property worth $604,000

Am looking for a better rate that will save me on interest. What is my best option right now? Thanks in advance!
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sapphire96
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

Just refinanced with Better Mortgage...
Old Loan:
2.25% 15 Year, 171 months remaining, $200,000 original loan amount.
Payment: $1,310.17

New Loan:
2% 15 year, $191,520
Payment: $1,232.45
A+B+C+E = $3,120
Lender Credits = $3,448

Was paid $328 to lower my rate to 2%. :D Will pay mortgage at my original payment rate to accelerate payoff date. This refinance will reduce my payoff date by a couple of months, save $5,000 in interest over the life of the loan, and reduce my emergency fund requirement by $500.

Edits: grammar and punctuation.
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
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sapphire96
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

dodgersummer wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:26 pm Please help:

-I refinanced a little over a year ago to a 15 year 2.625% loan with no closing costs
-Currently owe $198,000 with Zillow listing the property worth $604,000

Am looking for a better rate that will save me on interest. What is my best option right now? Thanks in advance!
See my post above - got it by screenshotting Better's advertised rate on Bankrate, then having Better match their advertised rate.
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
dodgersummer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dodgersummer »

sapphire96 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:02 pm
dodgersummer wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:26 pm Please help:

-I refinanced a little over a year ago to a 15 year 2.625% loan with no closing costs
-Currently owe $198,000 with Zillow listing the property worth $604,000

Am looking for a better rate that will save me on interest. What is my best option right now? Thanks in advance!
See my post above - got it by screenshotting Better's advertised rate on Bankrate, then having Better match their advertised rate.
I see 1.75 percent for 15 yrs with upfront cost of $1,990 with 1.oo5 points. Are the points worth it with the upfront costs? Does Better adjust where i can get a 14 year loan?
Bmonaye
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bmonaye »

I refied with better this past April, so it hasn't been six months yet. I haven't reached out to them yet to see if I can refi again, but the rates now seem so attractive.

My current terms are 3% 30yr on a jumbo loan of $845K.
Home value appraised at 1.2 mil last April, 71% LTV.

Hoping I can bring my rate down to 2.5 no cost refi if possible. What do you guys think?
BoglerInProgress
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BoglerInProgress »

Another dumb beginner question to make sure I am not overcomplicating (or undercomplicating) things.

I am beginning the process to refinance a brand-new home loan that literally closed two weeks ago. My question is about F+G — the prepaids and the initial escrow funding.

Loan documents from my initial closing 2 weeks ago showed about $5k in "F. Prepaids" (12 months of homeowner's insurance upfront + 6 months of county property taxes + some prepaid interest) and about $2k in "G. Initial Escrow" (additional 3 months of homeowner's insurance + additional 4 months of property taxes).

In the loan estimate for the refi, the homeowners' premium is missing from the "F. Prepaids," which makes obvious sense since that's already been paid to the insurance company. But the the 6-month property tax prepayment shows up again, presumably because semiannual property taxes won't be paid until late September, after the refi would close.

Just to confirm: This means my old lender and old escrow will also be refunding me that 6-month tax prepayment from the initial loan, as long as the loan leaves their custody before that tax bill is due, right? That line from Section F will be coming back to me along with everything in Section G?

Probably a stupid question, but just making sure I'm thinking through this correctly. I can't find much documentation around 'refunding the Prepaids' because I assume this would only be an issue in quick refinances like mine where one of the Section F items is still unconsumed.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

For whatever reason, huge increases in Better Bankrate pricing from yesterday to today.

Generally, 15 year Rates went up 0.02% and 30 year rates went up 0.03%. hopefully not the start of a new trend.

Today, Nerdwallet has better Better pricing than Bankrate does, so people should consider that too.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

BoglerInProgress wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:28 pm In the loan estimate for the refi, the homeowners' premium is missing from the "F. Prepaids," which makes obvious sense since that's already been paid to the insurance company. But the the 6-month property tax prepayment shows up again, presumably because semiannual property taxes won't be paid until late September, after the refi would close.

Just to confirm: This means my old lender and old escrow will also be refunding me that 6-month tax prepayment from the initial loan, as long as the loan leaves their custody before that tax bill is due, right? That line from Section F will be coming back to me along with everything in Section G?

Probably a stupid question, but just making sure I'm thinking through this correctly. I can't find much documentation around 'refunding the Prepaids' because I assume this would only be an issue in quick refinances like mine where one of the Section F items is still unconsumed.
Not necessarily. Section F prepaids are handled by the closing/settlement agent. Section G prepaids are handled by the lender. So G would be refunded, but for F, talk to the settlement company directly and ask them what the process is if you refi again before the tax bill is due.
bargainhunter
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bargainhunter »

Finished my first refi last month with Better. Great experience. Closed 6/29, funded 7/7.

Bought our house about one year prior in MD with 15% down. Went from a 30 year, 3% with $45 PMI to a 30 year, 2.875% without PMI.

Loan cost (A+B+C) = $1,104, received $3,790 in lender credits + the $2k Amex credit, netting me $4,686.

My questions—is there any way to refinance again with Better now or do I have to wait six months? When I try to get quotes, Better tells me I have an existing loan application (i.e., the one that was recently funded).
phobophobe
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by phobophobe »

Hello:

Fairly new member of the forum here and first time poster on this thread.

It has come to my attention that I should be looking to refinance my home mortgage. I am new to the process and, to be honest, fairly ignorant about what I need to be considering when doing this. I was hoping someone here could help me work through this (if this would be better off as a separate thread, let me know and I can start that).

Current mortgage:
$386,500 (home value likely >$700,000)
Rate: 3.625
30 year fixed originated October 2017
Current P&I: $1,932/month

Goals:
1) lower rate
2) pay off mortgage in ~10-15 yrs

In theory, we have enough funds to pay off the mortgage today but I am not excited about the loss of that much liquidity and the impact on our AA that would result from doing this.

What should I be looking for or considering? Some thoughts I am having:

- do I go for the lowest rate I can get/afford?
- do I pay points to achieve this?
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment?
- do I lower the length to 15 or 10 years?
- do I take the leap and pay it off now?

I am trying to not overthink this but I feel like there might be some ideal answer here based on the above information that someone could help me find.

Thanks in advance!

- P
Liquidus
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Liquidus »

I locked my rate with Better.com on July 9th at 2.75%, before rates went down and the refinance fee going away announcement. The rate lock goes until August 16th. I thought I could just wait for that to expire and re-lock at then-market rates, but according to my originator, I would then get "worst case" rates. I'm not sure if that's just bluffing, or if I'll be blacklisted in some sense. Any advice? Thanks.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Liquidus wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:57 pm I locked my rate with Better.com on July 9th at 2.75%, before rates went down and the refinance fee going away announcement. The rate lock goes until August 16th. I thought I could just wait for that to expire and re-lock at then-market rates, but according to my originator, I would then get "worst case" rates. I'm not sure if that's just bluffing, or if I'll be blacklisted in some sense. Any advice? Thanks.
I'd get a quote from LenderFI see if it's better than Better. If it is, just go with them and do Better Amex promo in a few months.
'Ponine
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 'Ponine »

Hi. I'm choosing between two proposals for a purchase, not a refi - but wanted to post here because this thread has so much rate/lender info.

Purchase is $600k, putting 52k down so we will have PMI. We will be renovating the house after e move in and believe the value of the home will be well over $700K once that is completed so that our mortgage will be under 80% LTV. We will either refinance (close to the end of the year) or have the property reappraised and PMI removed. I believe I have to wait 6 months to do the later but it may depend on who the loan is sold too.

Both 30 year mortgages

Option 1: Better

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -3,556 + AMEX $2,000 credit

Rate: 2.5%; P&1 2165 + PMI 91 = Total Monthly Cost $2256 (before escrows).

Option 2: First Internet Bank of Indiana

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -$14,565

Rate: 3% P&I 2310 + PMI 146 = Total Monthly Cost $ 2456

Including the Amex credit it would take four and half years for Option 1 to save money over Option 2. We are planning to close at the very end of September and will likely have the reno down before the end of the year. I am thinking rates may hold through that point but I tend to be nervous. Long term both the cashflow savings ($200/mo) and overall savings of Option 1 are very appealing obviously if we don't or aren't able to refi.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

'Ponine wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:37 pm Hi. I'm choosing between two proposals for a purchase, not a refi …
Both 30 year mortgages

Option 1: Better

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -3,556 + AMEX $2,000 credit

Rate: 2.5%; P&1 2165 + PMI 91 = Total Monthly Cost $2256 (before escrows).

Option 2: First Internet Bank of Indiana

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -$14,565

Rate: 3% P&I 2310 + PMI 146 = Total Monthly Cost $ 2456

Including the Amex credit it would take four and half years for Option 1 to save money over Option 2. We are planning to close at the very end of September and will likely have the reno down before the end of the year. I am thinking rates may hold through that point but I tend to be nervous. Long term both the cashflow savings ($200/mo) and overall savings of Option 1 are very appealing obviously if we don't or aren't able to refi.
Are you saying A + B + C + E - lender credits = $14k in profit on option B? If so, would your escrow and prepaids use that up? I can imagine there being some sort of restriction on significant credits on a purchase, but I personally do not know. If they get used up so you don’t close with cash to you, then I’m sure it will be fine.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

'Ponine wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:37 pm Hi. I'm choosing between two proposals for a purchase, not a refi - but wanted to post here because this thread has so much rate/lender info.

Purchase is $600k, putting 52k down so we will have PMI. We will be renovating the house after e move in and believe the value of the home will be well over $700K once that is completed so that our mortgage will be under 80% LTV. We will either refinance (close to the end of the year) or have the property reappraised and PMI removed. I believe I have to wait 6 months to do the later but it may depend on who the loan is sold too.

Both 30 year mortgages

Option 1: Better

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -3,556 + AMEX $2,000 credit

Rate: 2.5%; P&1 2165 + PMI 91 = Total Monthly Cost $2256 (before escrows).

Option 2: First Internet Bank of Indiana

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -$14,565

Rate: 3% P&I 2310 + PMI 146 = Total Monthly Cost $ 2456

Including the Amex credit it would take four and half years for Option 1 to save money over Option 2. We are planning to close at the very end of September and will likely have the reno down before the end of the year. I am thinking rates may hold through that point but I tend to be nervous. Long term both the cashflow savings ($200/mo) and overall savings of Option 1 are very appealing obviously if we don't or aren't able to refi.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Were you able to get better rates from First IB than what they initially show on their website? When i play with their webpage, it doesn't seem competitive with Better.
'Ponine
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 'Ponine »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:49 pm
'Ponine wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:37 pm Hi. I'm choosing between two proposals for a purchase, not a refi …
Both 30 year mortgages

Option 1: Better

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -3,556 + AMEX $2,000 credit

Rate: 2.5%; P&1 2165 + PMI 91 = Total Monthly Cost $2256 (before escrows).

Option 2: First Internet Bank of Indiana

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -$14,565

Rate: 3% P&I 2310 + PMI 146 = Total Monthly Cost $ 2456

Including the Amex credit it would take four and half years for Option 1 to save money over Option 2. We are planning to close at the very end of September and will likely have the reno down before the end of the year. I am thinking rates may hold through that point but I tend to be nervous. Long term both the cashflow savings ($200/mo) and overall savings of Option 1 are very appealing obviously if we don't or aren't able to refi.
Are you saying A + B + C + E - lender credits = $14k in profit on option B? If so, would your escrow and prepaids use that up? I can imagine there being some sort of restriction on significant credits on a purchase, but I personally do not know. If they get used up so you don’t close with cash to you, then I’m sure it will be fine.
I'm just talking about A and B lender costs. The $14k will be offset against title and transfer taxes which will eat it up. I will be out of pocket for escrow and prepaids. I could ask if I could get a higher rate with more of a closing credit but I haven't done that yet although I'm locked on the rate scale so I could. Generally the higher the rate the lower the credit increase has been per quarter point on the rate scale.

But sounds like you are thinking option 2 makes the most sense then too? I'm thinking it does but it is all based on the ability to refi so it makes me nervous.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

'Ponine wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:15 pm I'm just talking about A and B lender costs. The $14k will be offset against title and transfer taxes which will eat it up. I will be out of pocket for escrow and prepaids. I could ask if I could get a higher rate with more of a closing credit but I haven't done that yet although I'm locked on the rate scale so I could. Generally the higher the rate the lower the credit increase has been per quarter point on the rate scale.

But sounds like you are thinking option 2 makes the most sense then too? I'm thinking it does but it is all based on the ability to refi so it makes me nervous.
If the credits get eaten up by the other costs, then yes, I personally would be looking at option B with the eye to refinance in a few months to a year.
'Ponine
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 'Ponine »

tj wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:55 pm
'Ponine wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:37 pm Hi. I'm choosing between two proposals for a purchase, not a refi - but wanted to post here because this thread has so much rate/lender info.

Purchase is $600k, putting 52k down so we will have PMI. We will be renovating the house after e move in and believe the value of the home will be well over $700K once that is completed so that our mortgage will be under 80% LTV. We will either refinance (close to the end of the year) or have the property reappraised and PMI removed. I believe I have to wait 6 months to do the later but it may depend on who the loan is sold too.

Both 30 year mortgages

Option 1: Better

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -3,556 + AMEX $2,000 credit

Rate: 2.5%; P&1 2165 + PMI 91 = Total Monthly Cost $2256 (before escrows).

Option 2: First Internet Bank of Indiana

Costs: (A & B minus lender credit): -$14,565

Rate: 3% P&I 2310 + PMI 146 = Total Monthly Cost $ 2456

Including the Amex credit it would take four and half years for Option 1 to save money over Option 2. We are planning to close at the very end of September and will likely have the reno down before the end of the year. I am thinking rates may hold through that point but I tend to be nervous. Long term both the cashflow savings ($200/mo) and overall savings of Option 1 are very appealing obviously if we don't or aren't able to refi.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Were you able to get better rates from First IB than what they initially show on their website? When i play with their webpage, it doesn't seem competitive with Better.
For me it depended on the rate/credit. First IB was better with the higher credits but at 2.5 Better was, well - better. First IB probaly could probably have matched it but for thr Amex deal.

I look on their website just for reference though. They have more rare variations if you call/email. I actually have someone there I've worked with on a number of refis over the last 15 years that I usually reach out to by email to get rates for my specific situation. Until about 4 years ago they were always the best but my last refi was with Loan Depot. It just depends. If you want the email of the person I've worked with there feel free to PM me. He is very responsive and has been really great facilitating the whole loan process through many refis and working with me through my unrelenting questions and understanding on the rare occasions others have a better deal he can't meet.
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sapphire96
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

phobophobe wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:13 pm Hello:

Fairly new member of the forum here and first time poster on this thread.

It has come to my attention that I should be looking to refinance my home mortgage. I am new to the process and, to be honest, fairly ignorant about what I need to be considering when doing this. I was hoping someone here could help me work through this (if this would be better off as a separate thread, let me know and I can start that).

Current mortgage:
$386,500 (home value likely >$700,000)
Rate: 3.625
30 year fixed originated October 2017
Current P&I: $1,932/month

Goals:
1) lower rate
2) pay off mortgage in ~10-15 yrs

In theory, we have enough funds to pay off the mortgage today but I am not excited about the loss of that much liquidity and the impact on our AA that would result from doing this.

What should I be looking for or considering? Some thoughts I am having:

- do I go for the lowest rate I can get/afford?
- do I pay points to achieve this?
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment?
- do I lower the length to 15 or 10 years?
- do I take the leap and pay it off now?

I am trying to not overthink this but I feel like there might be some ideal answer here based on the above information that someone could help me find.

Thanks in advance!

- P
If your goal is to lower your interest rate and pay off mortgage in 10 to 15 years, perhaps refinancing to a 15 year mortgage is a route to consider. Here is what I would do...
  • Go to Bankrate (link below), input your zip code, mortgage details, take a screenshot of the rate Better offers (ideally an offer that has a little above 0 points, but not 0, if possible). Make sure your screenshot includes the date and time.
  • Do a direct application with Better, they should provide a rate table showing the interest rate, points/lender credits, and third party fees.
  • Reach out to your assigned representative and ask them to match the rate you screenshotted on Bankrate (their advertised rate). They should be able to match it and your rate table will then update.
  • Pick the interest rate that has enough lender credits (which should be displayed as a negative cost) which match or exceed the total third party lender costs (which is usually A + B + C + E on a loan estimate). This is a no-cost refinance; you are in essence lowering your interest rate for free. If you spend points, there is typically a 7-9 year breakeven period... unless you plan on not refinancing in the next 7 to 9 years, it's better to have the credits today.
So to answer your questions...
- do I go for the lowest rate I can get/afford? Go with the rate which provides you enough lender credits to cover the costs of A + B + C + E on the loan estimate
- do I pay points to achieve this? No, in fact, you should be able to get credits (the opposite of points) to in essence lower your interest rate for free
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment? That is known as a loan recast, where you put a lumpsum payment in exchange for a lower rate. You can ask your lender about it, and it may be cheaper than a refinance, but you did express concerns about losing liquidity.
- do I lower the length to 15 or 10 years? If that is your goal, I would to get the lowest interest rate. The other option is you could stick with a 30 year, still get a lower rate, but you pay extra on it and treat it like a 10 or 15 year. This gives you the flexibility to scale back the payments in the event of financial hardships at the cost of more interest over the life of the loan (because 30 year rates are higher than 15 year rates)
- do I take the leap and pay it off now? It's a personal decision and one that is heavily debated. There is the peace of mind of truly owning your home versus the higher rate of return you would earn investing the money. A combination of the two or a middle ground is an option too.

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/15-y ... Code=32746
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
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sapphire96
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

dodgersummer wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:38 am
sapphire96 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:02 pm
dodgersummer wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:26 pm Please help:

-I refinanced a little over a year ago to a 15 year 2.625% loan with no closing costs
-Currently owe $198,000 with Zillow listing the property worth $604,000

Am looking for a better rate that will save me on interest. What is my best option right now? Thanks in advance!
See my post above - got it by screenshotting Better's advertised rate on Bankrate, then having Better match their advertised rate.
I see 1.75 percent for 15 yrs with upfront cost of $1,990 with 1.oo5 points. Are the points worth it with the upfront costs? Does Better adjust where i can get a 14 year loan?
Points usually take 7 to 9 years to breakeven. Unless you plan on not refinancing for the next 7 to 9 year, it is better to have enough lender credits to cover the costs of the refinance (which is A + B + C + E) on the loan estimate. You pay a slightly higher interest rate compared to a rate with points, but it allows you to breakeven immediately.
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

sapphire96 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:32 pm
phobophobe wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:13 pm Hello:

Fairly new member of the forum here and first time poster on this thread.

It has come to my attention that I should be looking to refinance my home mortgage. I am new to the process and, to be honest, fairly ignorant about what I need to be considering when doing this. I was hoping someone here could help me work through this (if this would be better off as a separate thread, let me know and I can start that).

Current mortgage:
$386,500 (home value likely >$700,000)
Rate: 3.625
30 year fixed originated October 2017
Current P&I: $1,932/month

Goals:
1) lower rate
2) pay off mortgage in ~10-15 yrs

In theory, we have enough funds to pay off the mortgage today but I am not excited about the loss of that much liquidity and the impact on our AA that would result from doing this.

What should I be looking for or considering? Some thoughts I am having:

- do I go for the lowest rate I can get/afford?
- do I pay points to achieve this?
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment?
- do I lower the length to 15 or 10 years?
- do I take the leap and pay it off now?

I am trying to not overthink this but I feel like there might be some ideal answer here based on the above information that someone could help me find.

Thanks in advance!

- P
If your goal is to lower your interest rate and pay off mortgage in 10 to 15 years, perhaps refinancing to a 15 year mortgage is a route to consider. Here is what I would do...
  • Go to Bankrate (link below), input your zip code, mortgage details, take a screenshot of the rate Better offers (ideally an offer that has a little above 0 points, but not 0, if possible). Make sure your screenshot includes the date and time.
  • Do a direct application with Better, they should provide a rate table showing the interest rate, points/lender credits, and third party fees.
  • Reach out to your assigned representative and ask them to match the rate you screenshotted on Bankrate (their advertised rate). They should be able to match it and your rate table will then update.
  • Pick the interest rate that has enough lender credits (which should be displayed as a negative cost) which match or exceed the total third party lender costs (which is usually A + B + C + E on a loan estimate). This is a no-cost refinance; you are in essence lowering your interest rate for free. If you spend points, there is typically a 7-9 year breakeven period... unless you plan on not refinancing in the next 7 to 9 years, it's better to have the credits today.
So to answer your questions...
- do I go for the lowest rate I can get/afford? Go with the rate which provides you enough lender credits to cover the costs of A + B + C + E on the loan estimate
- do I pay points to achieve this? No, in fact, you should be able to get credits (the opposite of points) to in essence lower your interest rate for free
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment? That is known as a loan recast, where you put a lumpsum payment in exchange for a lower rate. You can ask your lender about it, and it may be cheaper than a refinance, but you did express concerns about losing liquidity.
- do I lower the length to 15 or 10 years? If that is your goal, I would to get the lowest interest rate. The other option is you could stick with a 30 year, still get a lower rate, but you pay extra on it and treat it like a 10 or 15 year. This gives you the flexibility to scale back the payments in the event of financial hardships at the cost of more interest over the life of the loan (because 30 year rates are higher than 15 year rates)
- do I take the leap and pay it off now? It's a personal decision and one that is heavily debated. There is the peace of mind of truly owning your home versus the higher rate of return you would earn investing the money. A combination of the two or a middle ground is an option too.

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/15-y ... Code=32746

Today, Nerdwallet had much better rates than Bankrate did for Better, so I'd suggest asking to have the Nerdwallet matched if that's more beneficial to someone.
phobophobe
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 10:55 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by phobophobe »

sapphire96 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:32 pm
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment? That is known as a loan recast, where you put a lumpsum payment in exchange for a lower rate. You can ask your lender about it, and it may be cheaper than a refinance, but you did express concerns about losing liquidity.
Thanks very much for your response. I will start the process tomorrow.

Regarding the question I copied above, would it be an option to refinance and pay down an amount like the 100,000 at the same time?

This would essentially be that middle ground you were referring to? I keep some liquidity by not paying down the whole amount, I reduce the loan duration to 15 years, and the monthly payment remains the same due to the lower loan amount?
phobophobe
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 10:55 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by phobophobe »

tj wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:40 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:32 pm
phobophobe wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:13 pm Hello:

Fairly new member of the forum here and first time poster on this thread.

It has come to my attention that I should be looking to refinance my home mortgage. I am new to the process and, to be honest, fairly ignorant about what I need to be considering when doing this. I was hoping someone here could help me work through this (if this would be better off as a separate thread, let me know and I can start that).

Current mortgage:
$386,500 (home value likely >$700,000)
Rate: 3.625
30 year fixed originated October 2017
Current P&I: $1,932/month

Goals:
1) lower rate
2) pay off mortgage in ~10-15 yrs

In theory, we have enough funds to pay off the mortgage today but I am not excited about the loss of that much liquidity and the impact on our AA that would result from doing this.

What should I be looking for or considering? Some thoughts I am having:

- do I go for the lowest rate I can get/afford?
- do I pay points to achieve this?
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment?
- do I lower the length to 15 or 10 years?
- do I take the leap and pay it off now?

I am trying to not overthink this but I feel like there might be some ideal answer here based on the above information that someone could help me find.

Thanks in advance!

- P
If your goal is to lower your interest rate and pay off mortgage in 10 to 15 years, perhaps refinancing to a 15 year mortgage is a route to consider. Here is what I would do...
  • Go to Bankrate (link below), input your zip code, mortgage details, take a screenshot of the rate Better offers (ideally an offer that has a little above 0 points, but not 0, if possible). Make sure your screenshot includes the date and time.
  • Do a direct application with Better, they should provide a rate table showing the interest rate, points/lender credits, and third party fees.
  • Reach out to your assigned representative and ask them to match the rate you screenshotted on Bankrate (their advertised rate). They should be able to match it and your rate table will then update.
  • Pick the interest rate that has enough lender credits (which should be displayed as a negative cost) which match or exceed the total third party lender costs (which is usually A + B + C + E on a loan estimate). This is a no-cost refinance; you are in essence lowering your interest rate for free. If you spend points, there is typically a 7-9 year breakeven period... unless you plan on not refinancing in the next 7 to 9 years, it's better to have the credits today.
So to answer your questions...
- do I go for the lowest rate I can get/afford? Go with the rate which provides you enough lender credits to cover the costs of A + B + C + E on the loan estimate
- do I pay points to achieve this? No, in fact, you should be able to get credits (the opposite of points) to in essence lower your interest rate for free
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment? That is known as a loan recast, where you put a lumpsum payment in exchange for a lower rate. You can ask your lender about it, and it may be cheaper than a refinance, but you did express concerns about losing liquidity.
- do I lower the length to 15 or 10 years? If that is your goal, I would to get the lowest interest rate. The other option is you could stick with a 30 year, still get a lower rate, but you pay extra on it and treat it like a 10 or 15 year. This gives you the flexibility to scale back the payments in the event of financial hardships at the cost of more interest over the life of the loan (because 30 year rates are higher than 15 year rates)
- do I take the leap and pay it off now? It's a personal decision and one that is heavily debated. There is the peace of mind of truly owning your home versus the higher rate of return you would earn investing the money. A combination of the two or a middle ground is an option too.

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/15-y ... Code=32746

Today, Nerdwallet had much better rates than Bankrate did for Better, so I'd suggest asking to have the Nerdwallet matched if that's more beneficial to someone.
Thank you for this information. I'll take a look.
Laddu99
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Laddu99 »

Does NerdWallet need an account setup? Bankrate does not need any.
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sapphire96
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

phobophobe wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:15 am
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:32 pm
- do I put some money (e.g. $100,000) to the loan to lower the balance/payment? That is known as a loan recast, where you put a lumpsum payment in exchange for a lower rate. You can ask your lender about it, and it may be cheaper than a refinance, but you did express concerns about losing liquidity.
Thanks very much for your response. I will start the process tomorrow.

Regarding the question I copied above, would it be an option to refinance and pay down an amount like the 100,000 at the same time?

This would essentially be that middle ground you were referring to? I keep some liquidity by not paying down the whole amount, I reduce the loan duration to 15 years, and the monthly payment remains the same due to the lower loan amount?
Sounds like a plan and a win-win to me!
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
sockfight
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:33 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sockfight »

I currently have a 30-yr fixed with Wells Fargo at 2.875. Only six months into it, but I was just able to lock a rate of 2.375 with Better that has only $400 in closing costs after factoring in the $2k Amex credit (also got an appraisal waiver). It's a no-brainer, and exciting. I got this great rate by using the Bankrate hack (Bankrate advertised 2.375 for $0 in points with Better vs $2k on Better's own website and 2.25 for $2k in points vs $7k. I had them price match the latter rate because it was a wider spread, which created a credit on the 2.375 rate!). I have two questions:

1. My rate includes waived escrow. I could reduce my closing costs by about $400 by using escrow (rates are the same). I feel like I'm happy to pay $400 for three reasons: first, it means I don't have to come up with about $10k more cash to close (net after factoring in my current loan's escrow); second, I think I can easily make back the $400 in a year or two by earning interest myself on money that would be sitting in escrow; third, I just find escrow annoying. Can anyone think of a reason not to waive escrow with this deal?

2. I spoke to my current lender before finding and locking this rate. Wells Fargo's rates were not at all competitive, but they did say if I started an application with them and sent them a competitor's loan estimate, they would see if they could price match. Is this worth a try? I don't feel any particular loyalty to Wells Fargo, but is it likely to lead to either an even better outcome and/or less hassle if I somehow refi in house? Am I missing any opportunity to negotiate even harder, or is it likely not worth the trouble?

Thank you!
SpiritualAlp
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:03 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SpiritualAlp »

Thank you Bogleheads. I visited this thread often and refinanced with Better. Closed yesterday .

Easiest transaction and everything was very clear . My LO was very responsive and I got a good deal;

July 19 - Just initiated an application with Better but didn't lock any rate
July 20 - LO called asked my goal ; I already had 2.125 % for 15 year rate so I mentioned that I need to lower the rate with no closing costs ;
He gave me 1.75 with enormous closing costs (It came almost 6k )
- I calculated the total interest for the existing loan and the new interest minus closing cost which came around 4k . I told him it is not worth for me to refinance to save 4k for 15 years.
- He came back with 4500 credits which meant I still have to pay 1500.
- I sent a bankrate screen shot with 0 fees ;
- He gave us 2400 credits with points removed ,which covered all the costs plus 2k amex credit ;
Here comes the interesting part which I didn't know .
since my taxes were due by Oct 01, better needed the entire 12 month property tax as an escrow. I don't want to pay any money so I asked whether he could add the escrow into loan ;
My initial loan was for 295k ; credit 2500k
when he added the escrow my credit went to 4k ;
after the closing costs I netted 1.6k + 2k amex ;
there was some point where better showed my loan was 299k where they added partial escrow and 1.5 k credit disappeared ; I emailed the LO asked him to keep the loan around 301,500 . I think I was near the threshold where the credit disappeared and better tried to keep less than the threshold ;
I learnt getting a loan for 300k vs 301k huge difference in the credits ;
closed yesterday ;

Hope this helps others! . so experiment your loan amount especially when u r near the 100s.
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Laddu99 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:30 am Does NerdWallet need an account setup? Bankrate does not need any.
No.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/rates/refinance

Click View details to see the lender credit and fees.
Last edited by tj on Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
dave8228
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 8:09 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dave8228 »

SpiritualAlp wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:24 am Thank you Bogleheads. I visited this thread often and refinanced with Better. Closed yesterday .

Easiest transaction and everything was very clear . My LO was very responsive and I got a good deal;

July 19 - Just initiated an application with Better but didn't lock any rate
July 20 - LO called asked my goal ; I already had 2.125 % for 15 year rate so I mentioned that I need to lower the rate with no closing costs ;
He gave me 1.75 with enormous closing costs (It came almost 6k )
- I calculated the total interest for the existing loan and the new interest minus closing cost which came around 4k . I told him it is not worth for me to refinance to save 4k for 15 years.
- He came back with 4500 credits which meant I still have to pay 1500.
- I sent a bankrate screen shot with 0 fees ;
- He gave us 2400 credits with points removed ,which covered all the costs plus 2k amex credit ;
Here comes the interesting part which I didn't know .
since my taxes were due by Oct 01, better needed the entire 12 month property tax as an escrow. I don't want to pay any money so I asked whether he could add the escrow into loan ;
My initial loan was for 295k ; credit 2500k
when he added the escrow my credit went to 4k ;
after the closing costs I netted 1.6k + 2k amex ;
there was some point where better showed my loan was 299k where they added partial escrow and 1.5 k credit disappeared ; I emailed the LO asked him to keep the loan around 301,500 . I think I was near the threshold where the credit disappeared and better tried to keep less than the threshold ;
I learnt getting a loan for 300k vs 301k huge difference in the credits ;
closed yesterday ;

Hope this helps others! . so experiment your loan amount especially when u r near the 100s.
Nice, congrats! So from Lock to Close it only took 15 days. I just locked 2 days ago with Better on Aug 3, and am hoping to close before the end of the month as I have to buy out my vehicle lease by Sept 15, and I don't want to take out an auto loan during the mortgage refi process.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

So for those keeping track, my closing for refi # 5 with Better was earlier this week. I was ready to close in 15 days, but then had to wait out the six months since my prior Better refi.

2.5% 15 year cash out loan $275k
- waived escrow
- appraisal paid by Better
- A + B + C + E = $1,100
- Lender Credits = $4,950
- Amex Credits = $2,000
- Profit = $5,850

At this point, I’m over $17k in profit above my closing costs through these refis. I await refi # 6 as a rate-and-term refi vs. the current cash out.


And for those wondering, my loan balance was $130k previously. I took out $145k to invest.
gotrojan
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gotrojan »

Anyone got a better rate for this scenario?

$2.3M property value
$1.3M outstanding balance
800+ credit score
Bay Area location
Current best rate offered 2.625 for 30 yr fixed, no points (enough credits to cover fees).

If yes, I would appreciate you sharing the details on the rates and the lender!

Thank you!
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sapphire96
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:09 am So for those keeping track, my closing for refi # 5 with Better was earlier this week. I was ready to close in 15 days, but then had to wait out the six months since my prior Better refi.

2.5% 15 year cash out loan $275k
- waived escrow
- appraisal paid by Better
- A + B + C + E = $1,100
- Lender Credits = $4,950
- Amex Credits = $2,000
- Profit = $5,850

At this point, I’m over $17k in profit above my closing costs through these refis. I await refi # 6 as a rate-and-term refi vs. the current cash out.


And for those wondering, my loan balance was $130k previously. I took out $145k to invest.
Lucky that your ABCE is only $1,100. Florida refinances are expensive; mine was $3,121.
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

tj wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:43 pm For whatever reason, huge increases in Better Bankrate pricing from yesterday to today.

Generally, 15 year Rates went up 0.02% and 30 year rates went up 0.03%. hopefully not the start of a new trend.

Today, Nerdwallet has better Better pricing than Bankrate does, so people should consider that too.
Bankrate pricing is out - it looks like the rate went up again.
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

bestisfree wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:06 am
tj wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:43 pm For whatever reason, huge increases in Better Bankrate pricing from yesterday to today.

Generally, 15 year Rates went up 0.02% and 30 year rates went up 0.03%. hopefully not the start of a new trend.

Today, Nerdwallet has better Better pricing than Bankrate does, so people should consider that too.
Bankrate pricing is out - it looks like the rate went up again.
Mine went down from yesterday, but not by much.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

sapphire96 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:54 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:09 am So for those keeping track, my closing for refi # 5 with Better was earlier this week. I was ready to close in 15 days, but then had to wait out the six months since my prior Better refi.

2.5% 15 year cash out loan $275k
- waived escrow
- appraisal paid by Better
- A + B + C + E = $1,100
- Lender Credits = $4,950
- Amex Credits = $2,000
- Profit = $5,850

At this point, I’m over $17k in profit above my closing costs through these refis. I await refi # 6 as a rate-and-term refi vs. the current cash out.


And for those wondering, my loan balance was $130k previously. I took out $145k to invest.
Lucky that your ABCE is only $1,100. Florida refinances are expensive; mine was $3,121.
Oh I know. I grew up in Miami and remember the doc stamp tax well. Even 401k loans are subject to that.
chefann
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chefann »

I think I've finally reached FOMO. I have been putting off refinancing for many reasons, including:
- I don't want to lift my credit freeze.
- I dread dealing with banks. No matter how much $$ I have or my credit score (800+), I always feel like I'm begging.
- I fear getting an inexperienced loan officer - I don't know what I'm doing and really want someone across the desk (or phone) who DOES, with lots of loan experience.
- Once you put anything in motion, more moving parts mean more opportunities for screwups.
- I really don't want to lose the bank that currently holds my mortgage (Chase) because of its great customer service and website (mortgage calculators, payment ease, no escrow issues, etc.) That may sound a bit lightweight, but for background - before my mortgage was sold to Chase three years ago, my previous initial mortgage holder was a nightmare - 27 phone calls to get the home insurance paid out of escrow the first year, 11 to get the property insurance paid, multiple emails, document submissions, confirmation calls, etc. So many hours on the phone, so much worry and stress.
- I hate negotiating or haggling or shopping (for anything - my partner buys my clothes), but I know from reading this thread that I should shop around for the best rate.
- I really want to stay with Chase. I know Chase could sell my mortgage anytime and I'd have to deal with that - but will my risk of that happening increase anyway if I refinance through Chase?

Question: Can anyone who has refinanced tell me what the experience has been like post-closing, with the service of their loans if they changed banks? (Yes, I'd love to get rid of PMI with the refinance.)
Question: Would it be better to go through a local loan officer or national? I'm thinking by phone national would have the most experience?
Question: How many days or weeks from application to close?
Question: When was your first payment due on the new loan? The month you closed? The following month?

I'm guessing some of you all will tell me to put on my big girl panties and just deal with it, it's part of adulting - and you'd be right, I'm already telling myself the same thing and that's what I'm going to do. Maybe I'm just whining a bit and looking to see if anyone else had/has any of these same concerns! Thanks!

P.S. - Bogleheads changed my life - Bogle, Taylor, Mel, Lady Geek, livesoft, Nisiprius, ruralavalon, retiredjg, stoptothink, sandtrap, Broken Man 1999, White Coat Investor, nedsaid - and these are just off the top of my head! I'm trying to do my best to pass on all I've learned to my nephews, as I wish someone had taught me when I was young everything I've learned here! Thank you all!
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

chefann wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:59 am Question: Can anyone who has refinanced tell me what the experience has been like post-closing, with the service of their loans if they changed banks? (Yes, I'd love to get rid of PMI with the refinance.)
My last refi was transferred to the dreaded Mr. Cooper. But for me it's been totally fine. I was at first leery about moving from Chase, but I've had zero concerns in two refis (currently on my third) in 12 months.
chefann wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:59 am Question: Would it be better to go through a local loan officer or national? I'm thinking by phone national would have the most experience?
You'll get better rates from the online lenders: Better, LoanDepot, LenderFi, Interactive Mortgage, etc. depending on your state.
chefann wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:59 am Question: How many days or weeks from application to close?
Depends on the lender. Some people are saying 2 weeks, some can be as long as 4-5 or longer.
chefann wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:59 am Question: When was your first payment due on the new loan? The month you closed? The following month?
Typically your first full payment will be the 2nd calendar month after closing. At closing, you pre-pay your interest through the current month. And mortgage are paid in arrears, so the next calendar month's interest is actually pay the following month (two calendar months after closing).
chefann wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:59 am I'm guessing some of you all will tell me to put on my big girl panties and just deal with it
You said it, not us!
dfeucht
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dfeucht »

dave8228 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:59 am
Nice, congrats! So from Lock to Close it only took 15 days. I just locked 2 days ago with Better on Aug 3, and am hoping to close before the end of the month as I have to buy out my vehicle lease by Sept 15, and I don't want to take out an auto loan during the mortgage refi process.
Another reference for Better. Outstanding experience and pricing was great following all the tips here with Bankrate, matching etc.

Locked July 16th. Had choice to close July 24th (Sat) or July 26th (Monday). We chose Monday, so 10 days from lock to close, but had opportunity to do it in 8. Loan funded on July 30th, less than 2 weeks after lock. Now just waiting to see the AmEx credit appear. They said 8-12 weeks, but from what I have seen here it likely shows up sooner.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

tj wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:11 am
bestisfree wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:06 am
tj wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:43 pm For whatever reason, huge increases in Better Bankrate pricing from yesterday to today.

Generally, 15 year Rates went up 0.02% and 30 year rates went up 0.03%. hopefully not the start of a new trend.

Today, Nerdwallet has better Better pricing than Bankrate does, so people should consider that too.
Bankrate pricing is out - it looks like the rate went up again.
Mine went down from yesterday, but not by much.
on average - today (Aug 5) 15 year Rates went up 0.04% and 30 year rates went up 0.04%. Daily Mortgage Rates

The majority of Bankrate's survey respondents say the rate will decrease Aug 5 - 11, though, so who knows?

I do think the pressure from delta variant will increase on the market to drive money into bonds, so rate will overall continue to drop. Which means I probably locked in too early. :shock:
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

bestisfree wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:13 pm
tj wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:11 am
bestisfree wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:06 am
tj wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:43 pm For whatever reason, huge increases in Better Bankrate pricing from yesterday to today.

Generally, 15 year Rates went up 0.02% and 30 year rates went up 0.03%. hopefully not the start of a new trend.

Today, Nerdwallet has better Better pricing than Bankrate does, so people should consider that too.
Bankrate pricing is out - it looks like the rate went up again.
Mine went down from yesterday, but not by much.
on average - today (Aug 5) 15 year Rates went up 0.04% and 30 year rates went up 0.04%. Daily Mortgage Rates

The majority of Bankrate's survey respondents say the rate will decrease Aug 5 - 11, though, so who knows?

I do think the pressure from delta variant will increase on the market to drive money into bonds, so rate will overall continue to drop. Which means I probably locked in too early. :shock:
I hope so, I'm going to be really pissed if the rates from Monday/Tuesday never come back.
bestisfree
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

tj wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:27 pm I hope so, I'm going to be really pissed if the rates from Monday/Tuesday never come back.
I thought you locked?

well, macroeconomically I would be concerned if the rate continues to drop. Probably would lose more value in our portfolio than a few k's gained in the refinance.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

bestisfree wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:38 pm
tj wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:27 pm I hope so, I'm going to be really pissed if the rates from Monday/Tuesday never come back.
I thought you locked?

well, macroeconomically I would be concerned if the rate continues to drop. Probably would lose more value in our portfolio than a few k's gained in the refinance.
My portfolio hasn't lost value over the time that rates have been dropping.

No, I closed on a purchase loan last week. I'm on a 30 year with 3.25% (condo, so 25bps higher than SFR's). It's historically, of course, a good rate, but there's definitely FOMO with superior rates being available.
ssizzling7s
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ssizzling7s »

Hey all, thanks for all the help so far. I have another quick question.

Our rate is 2.375% with $2400 back at closing with an APR is 2.406%. Why would the APR go up, we're not buying it down? Shouldn’t the credit cover those costs? What am I missing? We could've done 2.25% and paid $300 in points and had an APR of 2.258% but decided the credit would be nice to offset some of the closing costs. 20 yr term. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks -S
Last edited by ssizzling7s on Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

ssizzling7s wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:13 pm Hey all, thanks for all the help so far. I have another quick question.

Our rate is 2.375% with $2400 back at closing but the APR is 2.406%. Why would the APR go up, we're not buying it down? What am I missing? We could've done 2.25% and paid $300 in points and had an APR of 2.258% but decided the credit would be nice to offset some of the closing costs. 20 yr term. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks -S
Ignore APR. APR, by regulatory definition, does *not* include lender credits. A+B+C+E-Lender Credits is the only number that matters.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

truenyer wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:15 pm
ssizzling7s wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:13 pm Hey all, thanks for all the help so far. I have another quick question.

Our rate is 2.375% with $2400 back at closing but the APR is 2.406%. Why would the APR go up, we're not buying it down? What am I missing? We could've done 2.25% and paid $300 in points and had an APR of 2.258% but decided the credit would be nice to offset some of the closing costs. 20 yr term. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks -S
Ignore APR. APR, by regulatory definition, does *not* include lender credits. A+B+C+E-Lender Credits is the only number that matters.
This.

And to further, what can/cannot be included in APR is flexible and varies by lender. So it’s pretty flawed vs. comparing the real cost to refinance (A + B + C + E - lender credits).
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