Refinance Mega Thread

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tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

mirror wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:13 pm Sanity check since I may be doing some mental gymnastics to make this work in my head...

Does going from 15 yr 2.375% to 30 year 2.375% for a net cost of ~$1,700 ($3,700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) to free up cash flow make sense on a $130k mortgage? Payment would go from $880 to $515. No pts option for 30 yr at 2.75% ($540 pmt) so would come out ahead +$1,300 ($700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) . No plans to move for several years due to kids' school. I might just be getting caught up with the low rate of 2.375% for 30 years which is a $3k additional cost.
Why not go to a 15 year 1.875% ?
mirror
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:24 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mirror »

tj wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:16 pm
mirror wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:13 pm Sanity check since I may be doing some mental gymnastics to make this work in my head...

Does going from 15 yr 2.375% to 30 year 2.375% for a net cost of ~$1,700 ($3,700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) to free up cash flow make sense on a $130k mortgage? Payment would go from $880 to $515. No pts option for 30 yr at 2.75% ($540 pmt) so would come out ahead +$1,300 ($700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) . No plans to move for several years due to kids' school. I might just be getting caught up with the low rate of 2.375% for 30 years which is a $3k additional cost.
Why not go to a 15 year 1.875% ?
True, the closing costs would be fairly close to the 30 yr @ 2.375%. Although freeing up $300/month would be pretty nice.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

mirror wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:19 pm
tj wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:16 pm
mirror wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:13 pm Sanity check since I may be doing some mental gymnastics to make this work in my head...

Does going from 15 yr 2.375% to 30 year 2.375% for a net cost of ~$1,700 ($3,700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) to free up cash flow make sense on a $130k mortgage? Payment would go from $880 to $515. No pts option for 30 yr at 2.75% ($540 pmt) so would come out ahead +$1,300 ($700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) . No plans to move for several years due to kids' school. I might just be getting caught up with the low rate of 2.375% for 30 years which is a $3k additional cost.
Why not go to a 15 year 1.875% ?
True, the closing costs would be fairly close to the 30 yr @ 2.375%. Although freeing up $300/month would be pretty nice.
Well, 15 year 2% would be lowering your payment and less closing costs. You pay a lot more interest on a 30 year loan. If you're okay with that, nothing crazy about extending the term. Especially if the amoutn of interest allows you to itemize. (Doesn't for me)
christoph_kohl
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:22 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by christoph_kohl »

chrischris wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:16 pm I refinanced last year to a 20 year with Lenderfi at 2.8% (no fees).

Property value: $710k
Amount owed: $246k

I checked the rates on Bankrate and saw Better was advertising 1.750% with $608 upfront cost on a 15 year. This seemed like a sweet deal. I clicked the link and started an application with Better, only to see their final options proposed to me much worse. They are now offering me 1.75% with $5733 in upfront cost (points).

I took a screenshot and responded to the email I received from Better. I showed the massive increase and discrepancy. The agent responded and said they are built on transparency and will honor advertised prices, she just asked I update the screen shot with more accurate numbers than my initial estimates, which I did. I updated the figures and am waiting to hear back.

To drop down 1% for minimal cost would be huge, I believe, unless anyone disagrees? The small increase in monthly payment to go from a 20 year to 15 year wouldn't be an issue. Am I missing something here?

Also, I don't currently have an Amex card. Can I sign up for an Amex card now and get the promotion? Or do I have to be an existing card holder? I didn't see this in the terms, and wouldn't mind someone commenting on personal experience.
Regarding the Amex/Better promotion...
All you need is to have a valid Amex Credit Card number BEFORE you close on the refinance.

When I applied, I did not have an Amex. I applied for the CC, and updated the CC information onto the refi application.
If you're are going ahead with this, let me know. Amex has a referral system.
pmmcmu
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pmmcmu »

In process of refinancing with Better.com and I had a quick question to the board about a request that Better is asking me to upload regarding Home Insurance. Better is asking me to upload "We need you to upload your Replacement Cost Estimator from your insurance policy."

Our current Home Insurance provider is Liberty Mutual. I've uploaded my Policy Declaration document and my Policy Packet. Both times Better has taken a few days and rejected the document request. According to Liberty Mutual website the Policy Packet has the following information: "It’s all of your current policy information, as well as all of the legal documentation that came with your original policy.

Is there anyone who has done a refi that has Liberty Mutual as Home Insurance provider? And could they provide some insight about what document to upload? I've talked to my Processing Expert twice and he doesn't provide much information about what I need provide to complete the task.
chazas
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:22 pm
Location: NoVa

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chazas »

pmmcmu wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:06 am In process of refinancing with Better.com and I had a quick question to the board about a request that Better is asking me to upload regarding Home Insurance. Better is asking me to upload "We need you to upload your Replacement Cost Estimator from your insurance policy."

Our current Home Insurance provider is Liberty Mutual. I've uploaded my Policy Declaration document and my Policy Packet. Both times Better has taken a few days and rejected the document request. According to Liberty Mutual website the Policy Packet has the following information: "It’s all of your current policy information, as well as all of the legal documentation that came with your original policy.

Is there anyone who has done a refi that has Liberty Mutual as Home Insurance provider? And could they provide some insight about what document to upload? I've talked to my Processing Expert twice and he doesn't provide much information about what I need provide to complete the task.

My agent provided a replacement cost estimate/coverage number from my insurer and they accepted it.
NillaNumberNine
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NillaNumberNine »

Hello! This is only my second time doing a re-fi and the last was over a decade ago, so I am feeling apprehensive. But we have 4.25% on a 30 year right now, so I know we need to do it!

Is there anything to the Better AMEX deal other than:
- Going to Bankrate to get a quote and taking a screen capture of the rate.
- Moving forward with a re-fi with Better and using the Bankrate screen capture to negotiate the rate down, and requesting the AMEX refund.

Questions:
I suppose I need to move forward getting quotes from other companies as well to compare and possibly use with Better to reduce the rate?
How does AMEX play in? I think we still have an active AMEX card. Do we charge something to it to get the refund?

Is there anything else I need to know or look out for?

Thank you!
MrJedi
Posts: 3538
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

NillaNumberNine wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:41 am Hello! This is only my second time doing a re-fi and the last was over a decade ago, so I am feeling apprehensive. But we have 4.25% on a 30 year right now, so I know we need to do it!

Is there anything to the Better AMEX deal other than:
- Going to Bankrate to get a quote and taking a screen capture of the rate.
- Moving forward with a re-fi with Better and using the Bankrate screen capture to negotiate the rate down, and requesting the AMEX refund.

Questions:
I suppose I need to move forward getting quotes from other companies as well to compare and possibly use with Better to reduce the rate?
How does AMEX play in? I think we still have an active AMEX card. Do we charge something to it to get the refund?

Is there anything else I need to know or look out for?

Thank you!
You enter your Amex card number into the web portal anytime before closing. A few weeks after close you'll get a statement credit onto the Amex card you entered. You can purchase things with the Amex card to offset the credits, or Amex can cut you a check for a negative balance (you can request this to be done or it will happen automatically after a few months).
pmmcmu
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pmmcmu »

chazas wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:39 am
pmmcmu wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:06 am In process of refinancing with Better.com and I had a quick question to the board about a request that Better is asking me to upload regarding Home Insurance. Better is asking me to upload "We need you to upload your Replacement Cost Estimator from your insurance policy."

Our current Home Insurance provider is Liberty Mutual. I've uploaded my Policy Declaration document and my Policy Packet. Both times Better has taken a few days and rejected the document request. According to Liberty Mutual website the Policy Packet has the following information: "It’s all of your current policy information, as well as all of the legal documentation that came with your original policy.

Is there anyone who has done a refi that has Liberty Mutual as Home Insurance provider? And could they provide some insight about what document to upload? I've talked to my Processing Expert twice and he doesn't provide much information about what I need provide to complete the task.

My agent provided a replacement cost estimate/coverage number from my insurer and they accepted it.
Thanks. I talked to my insurance company this morning and got the required screenshot.
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:14 am Wow that’s great

Anyone refinancing loans around $622k

We’re trying to get under 3% without paying anything
That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Firemenot
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Firemenot »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am

That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
I locked a couple of days ago for a 30-year no-cost loan at 2.625. Interactive Mortgage. Just below the jumbo line for VHCOL area.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am

That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Why not? If you find something better down the line, you can just refi again. I'd take the 28 year one, unless you just don't want the hassle of going through a refinance.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am

That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Did you check advertised rate on bankrate.com for your situation? (I assume you did, but just in case)
mbasherp
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:48 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mbasherp »

Locked this week with Better for refi of ~$200k loan, 50% LTV.

Going from our 2.875% loan with 29 years left to:
2.5% 30 year with $220 lender credit
Total cost out of pocket after Amex promo is ~$300, not counting escrow and prepaids.

I found that having Amrock handle title services will save me $386 so I requested that and am waiting to hear back.

Thanks BH for the tips on both the Amex promo and Bankrate!
Last edited by mbasherp on Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Firemenot wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:04 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am

I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
I locked a couple of days ago for a 30-year no-cost loan at 2.625. Interactive Mortgage. Just below the jumbo line for VHCOL area.
Not sure IM operates in my locality. I think I checked before but I will double check. Thanks.
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am

I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Why not? If you find something better down the line, you can just refi again. I'd take the 28 year one, unless you just don't want the hassle of going through a refinance.
LD is my current lender so hassle would be minimal. Only thing is they must do appraisal :(, which they will pay back through credit later.
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:07 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am

I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Did you check advertised rate on bankrate.com for your situation? (I assume you did, but just in case)
Yep, check Bankrate pretty much every day. Not good rates. Most hoovering around 2.75 with a huge closing cost making it 2.99 or over. Not worth it at all.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:07 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm

Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Did you check advertised rate on bankrate.com for your situation? (I assume you did, but just in case)
Yep, check Bankrate pretty much every day. Not good rates. Most hoovering around 2.75 with a huge closing cost making it 2.99 or over. Not worth it at all.
You may be able to do better than what you see on Bankrate.
Do you have an open application with Better? If so, look into your rate sheet.

Let's say on Better.com you see 30 years 2.75% with $5000 in points and 30 years 2.875% with $2200 in points .
On bankrate you see 2.75% at $2000 in points, and 2.875% at $1500 in points. You then ask Better to match .
The pair that has the biggest difference is 2.75% 5000-2000 = 3000 > 2.875% $2200-1500 = 700. So you ask Better to match Bankrate's advertised rate for 30 years, 2.75% at $2000 in points.

Once that's applied, it applies across your rate table on Better's system. So you are probably going to see a much bigger deduction in points, into the no cost or credit territory. for example, 2.875%, $2200 - $3000 (match) = -$800 (credit) and this will be better than the advertised rates on bankrate.com.

You have to make an initial application at Better to see the system rate card though. And remember the goal of matching is get you the biggest discount, not the final interest rate on your loan. So if you see somehting that's 20 years, 2.25% that gives you the biggest differential from the corresponding offer on Better's system, ask Better to match that. Then you can go and select from the 30 years rate column to see if any of the new rates / credit or points are to your liking.

and also don't forget the $2k (conforming) or $6k (jumbo) AmEx deal.
Last edited by bestisfree on Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:39 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:07 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm

It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Did you check advertised rate on bankrate.com for your situation? (I assume you did, but just in case)
Yep, check Bankrate pretty much every day. Not good rates. Most hoovering around 2.75 with a huge closing cost making it 2.99 or over. Not worth it at all.
You may be able to do better than what you see on Bankrate.
Do you have an open application with Better? If so, look into your rate sheet.

Let's say on Better.com you see 30 years 2.75% with $5000 in points and 30 years 2.875% with $2200 in points .
On bankrate you see 2.75% at $2000 in points, and 2.875% at $1500 in points. You then ask Better to match .
The pair that has the biggest difference is 2.75% 5000-2000 = 3000 > 2.875% $2200-1500 = 700. So you ask Better to match Bankrate's advertised rate for 30 years, 2.75% at $2000 in points.

Once that's applied, it applies across your rate table on Better's system. So you are probably going to see a much bigger deduction in points, into the no cost or credit territory. for example, 2.875%, $2200 - $3000 (match) = -$800 (credit) and this will be better than the advertised rates on bankrate.com.

You have to make an initial application at Better to see the system rate card though.

and also don't forget the $2k AmEx deal.
He has a Jumbo. Doesn't that make the AmEx deal $6k instead of $2k?
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:46 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:39 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:07 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm

I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Did you check advertised rate on bankrate.com for your situation? (I assume you did, but just in case)
Yep, check Bankrate pretty much every day. Not good rates. Most hoovering around 2.75 with a huge closing cost making it 2.99 or over. Not worth it at all.
You may be able to do better than what you see on Bankrate.
Do you have an open application with Better? If so, look into your rate sheet.

Let's say on Better.com you see 30 years 2.75% with $5000 in points and 30 years 2.875% with $2200 in points .
On bankrate you see 2.75% at $2000 in points, and 2.875% at $1500 in points. You then ask Better to match .
The pair that has the biggest difference is 2.75% 5000-2000 = 3000 > 2.875% $2200-1500 = 700. So you ask Better to match Bankrate's advertised rate for 30 years, 2.75% at $2000 in points.

Once that's applied, it applies across your rate table on Better's system. So you are probably going to see a much bigger deduction in points, into the no cost or credit territory. for example, 2.875%, $2200 - $3000 (match) = -$800 (credit) and this will be better than the advertised rates on bankrate.com.

You have to make an initial application at Better to see the system rate card though.

and also don't forget the $2k AmEx deal.
He has a Jumbo. Doesn't that make the AmEx deal $6k instead of $2k?
I like how tj is always right. I stand corrected.
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:51 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:46 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:39 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:07 pm

Did you check advertised rate on bankrate.com for your situation? (I assume you did, but just in case)
Yep, check Bankrate pretty much every day. Not good rates. Most hoovering around 2.75 with a huge closing cost making it 2.99 or over. Not worth it at all.
You may be able to do better than what you see on Bankrate.
Do you have an open application with Better? If so, look into your rate sheet.

Let's say on Better.com you see 30 years 2.75% with $5000 in points and 30 years 2.875% with $2200 in points .
On bankrate you see 2.75% at $2000 in points, and 2.875% at $1500 in points. You then ask Better to match .
The pair that has the biggest difference is 2.75% 5000-2000 = 3000 > 2.875% $2200-1500 = 700. So you ask Better to match Bankrate's advertised rate for 30 years, 2.75% at $2000 in points.

Once that's applied, it applies across your rate table on Better's system. So you are probably going to see a much bigger deduction in points, into the no cost or credit territory. for example, 2.875%, $2200 - $3000 (match) = -$800 (credit) and this will be better than the advertised rates on bankrate.com.

You have to make an initial application at Better to see the system rate card though.

and also don't forget the $2k AmEx deal.
He has a Jumbo. Doesn't that make the AmEx deal $6k instead of $2k?
I like how tj is always right. I stand corrected.
I've a pending application with Better and this is what I see (can't upload the screen print). Also, this is a high conforming for Nassau NY, not a jumbo loan. Please advise. Thanks.

Rate/APR Points Principal+Int
2.5/2.682 $13,496 $2580
2.625/2.736 $7,535 $2623
2.75/2.807 $2,912 $2666
2.875/2.898 -$731 $2709
3.0/3.024 -$3023 $2753
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:33 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:51 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:46 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:39 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm

Yep, check Bankrate pretty much every day. Not good rates. Most hoovering around 2.75 with a huge closing cost making it 2.99 or over. Not worth it at all.
You may be able to do better than what you see on Bankrate.
Do you have an open application with Better? If so, look into your rate sheet.

Let's say on Better.com you see 30 years 2.75% with $5000 in points and 30 years 2.875% with $2200 in points .
On bankrate you see 2.75% at $2000 in points, and 2.875% at $1500 in points. You then ask Better to match .
The pair that has the biggest difference is 2.75% 5000-2000 = 3000 > 2.875% $2200-1500 = 700. So you ask Better to match Bankrate's advertised rate for 30 years, 2.75% at $2000 in points.

Once that's applied, it applies across your rate table on Better's system. So you are probably going to see a much bigger deduction in points, into the no cost or credit territory. for example, 2.875%, $2200 - $3000 (match) = -$800 (credit) and this will be better than the advertised rates on bankrate.com.

You have to make an initial application at Better to see the system rate card though.

and also don't forget the $2k AmEx deal.
He has a Jumbo. Doesn't that make the AmEx deal $6k instead of $2k?
I like how tj is always right. I stand corrected.
I've a pending application with Better and this is what I see (can't upload the screen print). Also, this is a high conforming for Nassau NY, not a jumbo loan. Please advise. Thanks.

Rate/APR Points Principal+Int
2.5/2.682 $13,496 $2580
2.625/2.736 $7,535 $2623
2.75/2.807 $2,912 $2666
2.875/2.898 -$731 $2709
3.0/3.024 -$3023 $2753
You have to play the bankrate game. The bankrate rates aren't better than what it shows there?
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:34 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:33 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:51 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:46 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:39 pm

You may be able to do better than what you see on Bankrate.
Do you have an open application with Better? If so, look into your rate sheet.

Let's say on Better.com you see 30 years 2.75% with $5000 in points and 30 years 2.875% with $2200 in points .
On bankrate you see 2.75% at $2000 in points, and 2.875% at $1500 in points. You then ask Better to match .
The pair that has the biggest difference is 2.75% 5000-2000 = 3000 > 2.875% $2200-1500 = 700. So you ask Better to match Bankrate's advertised rate for 30 years, 2.75% at $2000 in points.

Once that's applied, it applies across your rate table on Better's system. So you are probably going to see a much bigger deduction in points, into the no cost or credit territory. for example, 2.875%, $2200 - $3000 (match) = -$800 (credit) and this will be better than the advertised rates on bankrate.com.

You have to make an initial application at Better to see the system rate card though.

and also don't forget the $2k AmEx deal.
He has a Jumbo. Doesn't that make the AmEx deal $6k instead of $2k?
I like how tj is always right. I stand corrected.
I've a pending application with Better and this is what I see (can't upload the screen print). Also, this is a high conforming for Nassau NY, not a jumbo loan. Please advise. Thanks.

Rate/APR Points Principal+Int
2.5/2.682 $13,496 $2580
2.625/2.736 $7,535 $2623
2.75/2.807 $2,912 $2666
2.875/2.898 -$731 $2709
3.0/3.024 -$3023 $2753
You have to play the bankrate game. The bankrate rates aren't better than what it shows there?
Nope, it's not. Bankrate rates for Better is actually worse than these rates :annoyed
dave8228
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 8:09 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dave8228 »

bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:39 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:07 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 pm

It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I shopped in few places including Better, LD (my current lender), HSBC and couple of others. None of them could do better than my current rate of 2.99 with no cost (currently at 29 yrs as I reset the clock last August).

Suddenly today, my LD LO reached out with the below offer: 2.875% NO COST for 28 yr loan vs. my 29 yr loan. The payment will be $31 more per month but it will shave off 15K in interest and 1 yr during the term of the loan. I can also reset the clock to 30 yr with 2.875% and reduce my monthly from 2798 to 2709.

Not a great deal but something and I can't seem to be finding anything even close. Should I go for it? Need advice ASAP.

Thanks.
Did you check advertised rate on bankrate.com for your situation? (I assume you did, but just in case)
Yep, check Bankrate pretty much every day. Not good rates. Most hoovering around 2.75 with a huge closing cost making it 2.99 or over. Not worth it at all.
You may be able to do better than what you see on Bankrate.
Do you have an open application with Better? If so, look into your rate sheet.

Let's say on Better.com you see 30 years 2.75% with $5000 in points and 30 years 2.875% with $2200 in points .
On bankrate you see 2.75% at $2000 in points, and 2.875% at $1500 in points. You then ask Better to match .
The pair that has the biggest difference is 2.75% 5000-2000 = 3000 > 2.875% $2200-1500 = 700. So you ask Better to match Bankrate's advertised rate for 30 years, 2.75% at $2000 in points.

Once that's applied, it applies across your rate table on Better's system. So you are probably going to see a much bigger deduction in points, into the no cost or credit territory. for example, 2.875%, $2200 - $3000 (match) = -$800 (credit) and this will be better than the advertised rates on bankrate.com.

You have to make an initial application at Better to see the system rate card though. And remember the goal of matching is get you the biggest discount, not the final interest rate on your loan. So if you see somehting that's 20 years, 2.25% that gives you the biggest differential from the corresponding offer on Better's system, ask Better to match that. Then you can go and select from the 30 years rate column to see if any of the new rates / credit or points are to your liking.

and also don't forget the $2k (conforming) or $6k (jumbo) AmEx deal.
Thank you for writing that all out! Very much appreciated, I'm going to run through that exercise now and see what they will do.

Thanks again.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:34 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:33 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:51 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:46 pm

He has a Jumbo. Doesn't that make the AmEx deal $6k instead of $2k?
I like how tj is always right. I stand corrected.
I've a pending application with Better and this is what I see (can't upload the screen print). Also, this is a high conforming for Nassau NY, not a jumbo loan. Please advise. Thanks.

Rate/APR Points Principal+Int
2.5/2.682 $13,496 $2580
2.625/2.736 $7,535 $2623
2.75/2.807 $2,912 $2666
2.875/2.898 -$731 $2709
3.0/3.024 -$3023 $2753
You have to play the bankrate game. The bankrate rates aren't better than what it shows there?
Nope, it's not. Bankrate rates for Better is actually worse than these rates :annoyed
For me, Bankrate is much better on 15 year rates. Did you look at those and compare to what is showing in Better?
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:48 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:34 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:33 pm
bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:51 pm

I like how tj is always right. I stand corrected.
I've a pending application with Better and this is what I see (can't upload the screen print). Also, this is a high conforming for Nassau NY, not a jumbo loan. Please advise. Thanks.

Rate/APR Points Principal+Int
2.5/2.682 $13,496 $2580
2.625/2.736 $7,535 $2623
2.75/2.807 $2,912 $2666
2.875/2.898 -$731 $2709
3.0/3.024 -$3023 $2753
You have to play the bankrate game. The bankrate rates aren't better than what it shows there?
Nope, it's not. Bankrate rates for Better is actually worse than these rates :annoyed
For me, Bankrate is much better on 15 year rates. Did you look at those and compare to what is showing in Better?
Just checked 15 yr both in Bankrate vs. Better portal. Same. Bankrate is worse. Besides, I can't afford 15 yr.

Committed with LD just now. Thanks.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:09 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:48 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:34 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:33 pm

I've a pending application with Better and this is what I see (can't upload the screen print). Also, this is a high conforming for Nassau NY, not a jumbo loan. Please advise. Thanks.

Rate/APR Points Principal+Int
2.5/2.682 $13,496 $2580
2.625/2.736 $7,535 $2623
2.75/2.807 $2,912 $2666
2.875/2.898 -$731 $2709
3.0/3.024 -$3023 $2753
You have to play the bankrate game. The bankrate rates aren't better than what it shows there?
Nope, it's not. Bankrate rates for Better is actually worse than these rates :annoyed
For me, Bankrate is much better on 15 year rates. Did you look at those and compare to what is showing in Better?
Just checked 15 yr both in Bankrate vs. Better portal. Same. Bankrate is worse. Besides, I can't afford 15 yr.

Committed with LD just now. Thanks.
It's not about what can afford. When you update one rate, it updates the whole rate table.

Sounds like Better is not universally rock bottom. Good to know.
bws
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:09 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:48 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:34 pm
frugalNY wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:33 pm

I've a pending application with Better and this is what I see (can't upload the screen print). Also, this is a high conforming for Nassau NY, not a jumbo loan. Please advise. Thanks.

Rate/APR Points Principal+Int
2.5/2.682 $13,496 $2580
2.625/2.736 $7,535 $2623
2.75/2.807 $2,912 $2666
2.875/2.898 -$731 $2709
3.0/3.024 -$3023 $2753
You have to play the bankrate game. The bankrate rates aren't better than what it shows there?
Nope, it's not. Bankrate rates for Better is actually worse than these rates :annoyed
For me, Bankrate is much better on 15 year rates. Did you look at those and compare to what is showing in Better?
Just checked 15 yr both in Bankrate vs. Better portal. Same. Bankrate is worse. Besides, I can't afford 15 yr.

Committed with LD just now. Thanks.
Have you asked Better to match LD so you can take advantage of the AMEX credit?
rico6545
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rico6545 »

I locked with Better on July 20 with a 30 year at 2.625% with a net gain after closing costs of $593 plus the $2,000 Amex credit. I appreciate all the help on here to get to this point. Projected closing is Aug. 9 and I talked to LE today and confirmed we're on target.

One issue that I'm a little concerned about is escrow. We bought our house new right at a year ago. So apparently we only paid about $200 in property taxes for 2020. Better insists on using that figure to estimate my initial escrow payment at closing. I have received my 2021 property assessment from my county showing my projected taxes due in a few months to be closer to $3,000. I have made my LE aware of this a few times, but she keeps going back to what the title search shows for 2020.

I'm counting on the initial escrow including the 2021 property taxes. Anyone else run into this issue? If they push forward with the low-ball amount in escrow for my property taxes, am I at risk of coming out of pocket for taxes or does the mortgage servicer I wind up pay the taxes and change my monthly payment to reflect that?
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

rico6545 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:06 pm I locked with Better on July 20 with a 30 year at 2.625% with a net gain after closing costs of $593 plus the $2,000 Amex credit. I appreciate all the help on here to get to this point. Projected closing is Aug. 9 and I talked to LE today and confirmed we're on target.

One issue that I'm a little concerned about is escrow. We bought our house new right at a year ago. So apparently we only paid about $200 in property taxes for 2020. Better insists on using that figure to estimate my initial escrow payment at closing. I have received my 2021 property assessment from my county showing my projected taxes due in a few months to be closer to $3,000. I have made my LE aware of this a few times, but she keeps going back to what the title search shows for 2020.

I'm counting on the initial escrow including the 2021 property taxes. Anyone else run into this issue? If they push forward with the low-ball amount in escrow for my property taxes, am I at risk of coming out of pocket for taxes or does the mortgage servicer I wind up pay the taxes and change my monthly payment to reflect that?
What happens when you turn escrow off? That might be the easiest solution.
MrJedi
Posts: 3538
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

rico6545 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:06 pm I locked with Better on July 20 with a 30 year at 2.625% with a net gain after closing costs of $593 plus the $2,000 Amex credit. I appreciate all the help on here to get to this point. Projected closing is Aug. 9 and I talked to LE today and confirmed we're on target.

One issue that I'm a little concerned about is escrow. We bought our house new right at a year ago. So apparently we only paid about $200 in property taxes for 2020. Better insists on using that figure to estimate my initial escrow payment at closing. I have received my 2021 property assessment from my county showing my projected taxes due in a few months to be closer to $3,000. I have made my LE aware of this a few times, but she keeps going back to what the title search shows for 2020.

I'm counting on the initial escrow including the 2021 property taxes. Anyone else run into this issue? If they push forward with the low-ball amount in escrow for my property taxes, am I at risk of coming out of pocket for taxes or does the mortgage servicer I wind up pay the taxes and change my monthly payment to reflect that?
The escrow will pay even if there's a shortage because they don't want to lose their interest in the property.

If there's a shortage they can ask you to make a one time lump sum payment into the escrow to catch up or split it up over the next year of escrow payment installments.
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

One really elementary question - what is a true "no-cost" refinance?

Is it:
1. A (Origination) + B (Fixed Services) + C (Flexible Services) - Lender Credits = 0
2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
3. A + B + C +E + F (Escrow) - Lender Credits = 0
4. Something else

Or does it depend on how each individual looks at it, meaning my "no-cost" might be different than yours?
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:21 pm One really elementary question - what is a true "no-cost" refinance?

Is it:
1. A (Origination) + B (Fixed Services) + C (Flexible Services) - Lender Credits = 0
2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
3. A + B + C +E + F (Escrow) - Lender Credits = 0
4. Something else

Or does it depend on how each individual looks at it, meaning my "no-cost" might be different than yours?
Escrow absolutely does not count. You're paying that stuff regardless of financing.
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:26 pm
newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:21 pm One really elementary question - what is a true "no-cost" refinance?

Is it:
1. A (Origination) + B (Fixed Services) + C (Flexible Services) - Lender Credits = 0
2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
3. A + B + C +E + F (Escrow) - Lender Credits = 0
4. Something else

Or does it depend on how each individual looks at it, meaning my "no-cost" might be different than yours?
Escrow absolutely does not count. You're paying that stuff regardless of financing.
So, #2 is considered "no-cost" refinance, then?

2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
MrJedi
Posts: 3538
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:21 pm One really elementary question - what is a true "no-cost" refinance?

Is it:
1. A (Origination) + B (Fixed Services) + C (Flexible Services) - Lender Credits = 0
2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
3. A + B + C +E + F (Escrow) - Lender Credits = 0
4. Something else

Or does it depend on how each individual looks at it, meaning my "no-cost" might be different than yours?
Option 2. ABCE are costs you don't pay if you're not refinancing. Sections FG are costs you pay regardless of refi or not, it's just a matter of timing, they shouldn't factor too heavily into your decision other than an inconvenience or opportunity cost of temporarily holding two escrows before you get refunded the old one.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:26 pm
newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:21 pm One really elementary question - what is a true "no-cost" refinance?

Is it:
1. A (Origination) + B (Fixed Services) + C (Flexible Services) - Lender Credits = 0
2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
3. A + B + C +E + F (Escrow) - Lender Credits = 0
4. Something else

Or does it depend on how each individual looks at it, meaning my "no-cost" might be different than yours?
Escrow absolutely does not count. You're paying that stuff regardless of financing.
So, #2 is considered "no-cost" refinance, then?

2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
Well, yeah. You wouldn't be incurring any of those fees if you weren't refinancing.

With the Amex $2k offer, you could argue that A+B+C+E - Lender Credits = $2000 would be a no cost refi.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

I have a LO that bulked at Better's offer saying that lender's credit can't be put against escrow and the lender's credit on my loan estimate is too big. So for example, the following loan estimate would have problem at closing, for example.

Code: Select all

A =     0
B = $  50 (credit report)
C = $1000 (title services, etc)
D = $1050 (A+B+C)
E = $ 100 (taxes + gov't fees)
F = $4000 (Prepaids)
G = $4500 (escrows)
H = $   0 (other, AmEx credit)
I = $8600 (E+F+G+H)
J = $6650 (D+I - $3000 lender's credit)
Anyone who has closed had a problem with their lender's credit being much larger than their A+B+C+E ???
User avatar
truenyer
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:24 pm I have a LO that bulked at Better's offer saying that lender's credit can't be put against escrow and the lender's credit on my loan estimate is too big. So for example, the following loan estimate would have problem at closing, for example.

Code: Select all

A =     0
B = $  50 (credit report)
C = $1000 (title services, etc)
D = $1050 (A+B+C)
E = $ 100 (taxes + gov't fees)
F = $4000 (Prepaids)
G = $4500 (escrows)
H = $   0 (other, AmEx credit)
I = $8600 (E+F+G+H)
J = $6650 (D+I - $3000 lender's credit)
Anyone who has closed had a problem with their lender's credit being much larger than their A+B+C+E ???
I had that with LD last year and it wasn’t a problem. The credit covered the closing costs, fully funded my escrow, and is still got a check in the mail from them on top of that.
User avatar
truenyer
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:58 pm
newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:26 pm
newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:21 pm One really elementary question - what is a true "no-cost" refinance?

Is it:
1. A (Origination) + B (Fixed Services) + C (Flexible Services) - Lender Credits = 0
2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
3. A + B + C +E + F (Escrow) - Lender Credits = 0
4. Something else

Or does it depend on how each individual looks at it, meaning my "no-cost" might be different than yours?
Escrow absolutely does not count. You're paying that stuff regardless of financing.
So, #2 is considered "no-cost" refinance, then?

2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
Well, yeah. You wouldn't be incurring any of those fees if you weren't refinancing.

With the Amex $2k offer, you could argue that A+B+C+E - Lender Credits = $2000 would be a no cost refi.
Remember to account for fees to close the existing loan. Those can be a few hundred $.

Also, I think it’s prudent to NOT roll the entire payoff quote amount from your current loan into the new loan, because then you’re paying that remaining interest and recording fees in your new loan balance!!!
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

truenyer wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:03 am
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:58 pm
newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm
tj wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:26 pm
newbie20 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:21 pm One really elementary question - what is a true "no-cost" refinance?

Is it:
1. A (Origination) + B (Fixed Services) + C (Flexible Services) - Lender Credits = 0
2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
3. A + B + C +E + F (Escrow) - Lender Credits = 0
4. Something else

Or does it depend on how each individual looks at it, meaning my "no-cost" might be different than yours?
Escrow absolutely does not count. You're paying that stuff regardless of financing.
So, #2 is considered "no-cost" refinance, then?

2. A + B + C + E (Taxes & Fees) - Lender Credits = 0
Well, yeah. You wouldn't be incurring any of those fees if you weren't refinancing.

With the Amex $2k offer, you could argue that A+B+C+E - Lender Credits = $2000 would be a no cost refi.
Remember to account for fees to close the existing loan. Those can be a few hundred $.

Also, I think it’s prudent to NOT roll the entire payoff quote amount from your current loan into the new loan, because then you’re paying that remaining interest and recording fees in your new loan balance!!!
I don't see why it matters to roll those into the loan or not.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

tj wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:09 am I don't see why it matters to roll those into the loan or not.
Do you roll any other costs into your new loan? Why is this different? You’re paying interest on interest.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

rico6545 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:06 pm I locked with Better on July 20 with a 30 year at 2.625% with a net gain after closing costs of $593 plus the $2,000 Amex credit. I appreciate all the help on here to get to this point. Projected closing is Aug. 9 and I talked to LE today and confirmed we're on target.

One issue that I'm a little concerned about is escrow. We bought our house new right at a year ago. So apparently we only paid about $200 in property taxes for 2020. Better insists on using that figure to estimate my initial escrow payment at closing. I have received my 2021 property assessment from my county showing my projected taxes due in a few months to be closer to $3,000. I have made my LE aware of this a few times, but she keeps going back to what the title search shows for 2020.

I'm counting on the initial escrow including the 2021 property taxes. Anyone else run into this issue? If they push forward with the low-ball amount in escrow for my property taxes, am I at risk of coming out of pocket for taxes or does the mortgage servicer I wind up pay the taxes and change my monthly payment to reflect that?
Similar thing happened to me once where my escrow was $1800 short when a tax payment was due. Bank paid it and then sent me the option of paying $1800 lump sum or adding $150/month to my payment for the next year (no fees, etc for either)
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

bestisfree wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:24 pm I have a LO that bulked at Better's offer saying that lender's credit can't be put against escrow and the lender's credit on my loan estimate is too big. So for example, the following loan estimate would have problem at closing, for example.

Code: Select all

A =     0
B = $  50 (credit report)
C = $1000 (title services, etc)
D = $1050 (A+B+C)
E = $ 100 (taxes + gov't fees)
F = $4000 (Prepaids)
G = $4500 (escrows)
H = $   0 (other, AmEx credit)
I = $8600 (E+F+G+H)
J = $6650 (D+I - $3000 lender's credit)
Anyone who has closed had a problem with their lender's credit being much larger than their A+B+C+E ???
This is not a problem. The LO is wrong. Perhaps their firm doesn’t offer lender credit exceeding D+E, but that would be their own policy, not a general rule.

I’ve had LOs tell me this before. They are either mistaken (because they are thinking about their own firm’s policy) or lying (to try to lure me away from my other offer). But I have done 3 refis with lender credit exceeding D+E, including one with Better.
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drive2snow
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drive2snow »

What type of turnaround time have others seen between being handed off to a "closing expert" with Better.com and receiving your closing disclosure? We were handed off on 7/19 and haven't received it yet. I reached out to the closing contact a week later and he's replied twice, but hasn't had any tangible information available about when we might see our closing disclosure and be able to schedule closing. The late payment deadline for our mortgage payment is 8/16, so we have a some time to get this moving, but I'm not exactly comfortable sitting around with that bill past due.
kd2008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kd2008 »

drive2snow wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:06 am What type of turnaround time have others seen between being handed off to a "closing expert" with Better.com and receiving your closing disclosure? We were handed off on 7/19 and haven't received it yet. I reached out to the closing contact a week later and he's replied twice, but hasn't had any tangible information available about when we might see our closing disclosure and be able to schedule closing. The late payment deadline for our mortgage payment is 8/16, so we have a some time to get this moving, but I'm not exactly comfortable sitting around with that bill past due.
OMG! We are in exact identical situation. I told my closing expert that if no scheduled date by August 2nd, we are making the payment, get a new payoff and importantly reduce loan amount

He said the financed amount remains same but cash to close would reduce.

I said no-go. Financed amount reduces, and cash to close remains same.
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drive2snow
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drive2snow »

kd2008 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:11 am OMG! We are in exact identical situation. I told my closing expert that if no scheduled date by August 2nd, we are making the payment, get a new payoff and importantly reduce loan amount

He said the financed amount remains same but cash to close would reduce.

I said no-go. Financed amount reduces, and cash to close remains same.
Sorry to hear we have company in this situation. I haven't applied much pressure yet, but I think I'll start to do that by Monday. I expected things to move a little faster at this point and don't want to be in a situation where we won't fund before the late payment deadline (how worried should I be about that if we have closing scheduled by then?). Our circumstances are pretty routine and moved quickly with LenderFi after our rate lock last summer.

Update: I spoke too soon! We received our initial closing disclosure this evening.
Last edited by drive2snow on Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jmw
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jmw »

kd2008 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:11 am
drive2snow wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:06 am What type of turnaround time have others seen between being handed off to a "closing expert" with Better.com and receiving your closing disclosure? We were handed off on 7/19 and haven't received it yet. I reached out to the closing contact a week later and he's replied twice, but hasn't had any tangible information available about when we might see our closing disclosure and be able to schedule closing. The late payment deadline for our mortgage payment is 8/16, so we have a some time to get this moving, but I'm not exactly comfortable sitting around with that bill past due.
OMG! We are in exact identical situation. I told my closing expert that if no scheduled date by August 2nd, we are making the payment, get a new payoff and importantly reduce loan amount

He said the financed amount remains same but cash to close would reduce.

I said no-go. Financed amount reduces, and cash to close remains same.
Just electronically pay the old mortgage by the 16th if your closing date is close to the 16th. If you pay your mortgage by mail, stop doing that because the USPS is now unreliable. If you overpay, you will get a refund check in about 30 days from the old lender.

The amount of interest you will save is next to nothing compared to a bunch of extra work getting another payoff (which can take a week too) and time wasted to redo documents for a closer that's already not doing a good job.
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

I would just maintain payments as normal until funding is complete. If there is an overpayment, you will get refunded.
firstchair
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by firstchair »

Hello, thanks for all the tips in this thread. I have initiated an application with Better and don't see any information on their site about the AmEx credit offer. Any tips on how I go about getting this? Should I do a call with the loan officer and just ask for it out of the blue?
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

firstchair wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:14 pm Hello, thanks for all the tips in this thread. I have initiated an application with Better and don't see any information on their site about the AmEx credit offer. Any tips on how I go about getting this? Should I do a call with the loan officer and just ask for it out of the blue?
Just tell your assigned loan contact about it. I did it via email. They added the offer to my account, I got a few emails and a banner showed up in my Better web portal. A task shows up in the web portal to enter the card number.

Here's the offer page for reference: https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/l ... -mortgage/
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