Refinance Mega Thread

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tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:49 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:39 am Yeah seems like getting to at least 2.75% should be easy

Now another question

We are only 3 months into living in our home. Does doing a refi earlier than 6 months hurt the original lender? We used a lender we have a good personal working relationship (he actually save our home sale when our buyers lender fell through).

We won’t refi with him since he’s never the cheapest. But would doing a refi so early lose him money or anything? (Obviously I don’t understand the business side of this aspect)
Typically if the loan is refinanced before 6 payments are made, the commission a loan officer makes (and profit the lender makes from selling the loan to an investor) is clawed back.
It sucks, but is it worth gambling that rates will or will not be this low in six months? :oops:

I suppose one can always claim ignorance. I assume the LO is called when the payoff statement is requested mere months after purchase? Or do they not find out until it's too late?
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

tj wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:51 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:49 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:39 am Yeah seems like getting to at least 2.75% should be easy

Now another question

We are only 3 months into living in our home. Does doing a refi earlier than 6 months hurt the original lender? We used a lender we have a good personal working relationship (he actually save our home sale when our buyers lender fell through).

We won’t refi with him since he’s never the cheapest. But would doing a refi so early lose him money or anything? (Obviously I don’t understand the business side of this aspect)
Typically if the loan is refinanced before 6 payments are made, the commission a loan officer makes (and profit the lender makes from selling the loan to an investor) is clawed back.
It sucks, but is it worth gambling that rates will or will not be this low in six months? :oops:

I suppose one can always claim ignorance. I assume the LO is called when the payoff statement is requested mere months after purchase? Or do they not find out until it's too late?
They’ll know. IMO you should not take the gamble. Refinance while the bird is in the hand. If a loan officer is foolish they’ll hold a grudge. If they’re smart, they’ll realize your relationship and referrals are still valuable.
rage_phish
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rage_phish »

Thanks folks. Appreciate the insight
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:54 am
tj wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:51 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:49 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:39 am Yeah seems like getting to at least 2.75% should be easy

Now another question

We are only 3 months into living in our home. Does doing a refi earlier than 6 months hurt the original lender? We used a lender we have a good personal working relationship (he actually save our home sale when our buyers lender fell through).

We won’t refi with him since he’s never the cheapest. But would doing a refi so early lose him money or anything? (Obviously I don’t understand the business side of this aspect)
Typically if the loan is refinanced before 6 payments are made, the commission a loan officer makes (and profit the lender makes from selling the loan to an investor) is clawed back.
It sucks, but is it worth gambling that rates will or will not be this low in six months? :oops:

I suppose one can always claim ignorance. I assume the LO is called when the payoff statement is requested mere months after purchase? Or do they not find out until it's too late?
They’ll know. IMO you should not take the gamble. Refinance while the bird is in the hand. If a loan officer is foolish they’ll hold a grudge. If they’re smart, they’ll realize your relationship and referrals are still valuable.
Well, in my case, it hasn't even closed yet. can't really refi before I even make the first payment? :mrgreen: I wonder how long Better would do a rate lock.
2K2D
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2K2D »

Has anyone had any luck getting a better rate after you lock with better.com but before you close on the loan? I can’t seem to access updated rates. Do I have to create a separate account with a new email?
psychoslowmatic
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by psychoslowmatic »

Weird tax question - I know if I cash out refi then I can't deduct the interest for the cash out portion.

If I pay off the cash out early, can I deduct all interest in the remaining portion or is it apportioned?

So (using round numbers):

Say I owe 100k now
I cash out 100k extra for 200k total
6 months from closing I make an extra principal payment for 100k - now back to the original 100k owed

How much of the balance is considered deductible interest going forward?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

2K2D wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:05 am Has anyone had any luck getting a better rate after you lock with better.com but before you close on the loan? I can’t seem to access updated rates. Do I have to create a separate account with a new email?
You have to get a competitor to give you a loan estimate that you then have Better compete against. If you simply want to see your locked rate options vs. try to improve them, you can ask your loan officer to email a screenshot of the rate table if you didn’t save it off yourself.
frugalNY
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:14 am Wow that’s great

Anyone refinancing loans around $622k

We’re trying to get under 3% without paying anything
That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:14 am Wow that’s great

Anyone refinancing loans around $622k

We’re trying to get under 3% without paying anything
That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
InvestorDave
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestorDave »

2K2D wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:08 am My data point. Locked with Better today. 2.75% with 4,388 in credits. 440k loan value with no appraisal. I’ll net 2,483.
When you locked, did Better immediately tell you that the appraisal was waived? I’m hoping to get mine waived on a 50% LTV loan but when I locked my rate last night I got a message saying the appraisal had been ordered.
pindevil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

InvestorDave wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:17 pm
2K2D wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:08 am My data point. Locked with Better today. 2.75% with 4,388 in credits. 440k loan value with no appraisal. I’ll net 2,483.
When you locked, did Better immediately tell you that the appraisal was waived? I’m hoping to get mine waived on a 50% LTV loan but when I locked my rate last night I got a message saying the appraisal had been ordered.
Was also wondering how others are getting appraisal waived? When I spoke to better they were adamant that all loans need to have appraisal now. They also said only in extremely rare circumstances will appraisal be waived. They did end up giving me a credit for the appraisal but I still think it's a waste given the relatively small amount. 194k loan on a house worth 800-900k.
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

Better waived my appraisal when I started my app on Wednesday. It was an automatic email I got almost immediately after the soft pull and initial rates offered.
chazas
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chazas »

Locked with Better 7/1. Signed last week, funding Monday. Kind of annoyed I didn’t get the benefit of the GSE fee reduction, but I guess it’s noise in the greater scheme.
Cycle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

Does one click "include closing costs in loan" before generating the loan rate table at better?
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
Cycle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

chazas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:23 pm Locked with Better 7/1. Signed last week, funding Monday. Kind of annoyed I didn’t get the benefit of the GSE fee reduction, but I guess it’s noise in the greater scheme.
What is GSE?

Answered my question. https://homeguides.sfgate.com/mortgage-gses-8924.html

And sounds like GSEs were recently reduced or does one need to ask for that?
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Cycle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:34 pm Does one click "include closing costs in loan" before generating the loan rate table at better?
Why would you do that? Most people are doing no-cost refi's or negligible cash outs, Including closing costs in the loan just increases your debt.
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

tj wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:48 pm
Cycle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:34 pm Does one click "include closing costs in loan" before generating the loan rate table at better?
Why would you do that? Most people are doing no-cost refi's or negligible cash outs, Including closing costs in the loan just increases your debt.
If there is significant prepaids or escrow funding you can still wind up with closing costs that aren't really part of the real cost of the refinance. In those cases I still prefer to just roll the costs into the loan. I don't mind increasing the debt because I like the interest rate (hence doing the refi) and plan to make minimum payments anyway.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MrJedi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:26 pm
tj wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:48 pm
Cycle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:34 pm Does one click "include closing costs in loan" before generating the loan rate table at better?
Why would you do that? Most people are doing no-cost refi's or negligible cash outs, Including closing costs in the loan just increases your debt.
If there is significant prepaids or escrow funding you can still wind up with closing costs that aren't really part of the real cost of the refinance. In those cases I still prefer to just roll the costs into the loan. I don't mind increasing the debt because I like the interest rate (hence doing the refi) and plan to make minimum payments anyway.
I’ve been doing the same as MrJedi. It streamlines things and the difference is not that much, especially if it is because of escrows and you are about to get an escrow refund that you could, if you wanted, use for an extra principal payment.
frugalNY
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:14 am Wow that’s great

Anyone refinancing loans around $622k

We’re trying to get under 3% without paying anything
That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
It’s high conforming. Lenderfi doesn’t operate in NY. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
Krautz
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Krautz »

We received our initial closing disclosure and have a question that hasn't quite been fully explained by the our Better rep. On page 1 our Loan Amount is 124,200 but on page 5 the Amount Financed is 123,800. Our Better rep says these are prepaids but couldn't elaborate when further pressed. Google search suggests that this is where hidden fees or finance charges are stashed. In the grand scheme of things I am not bothered by a $400 difference... much. I was hoping to gain a better (pun intended :wink: ) understanding of the relationship between these two amounts. Can anyone offer some insight? Thank you!
Mrs K
Ryzen
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ryzen »

Krautz wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:28 am We received our initial closing disclosure and have a question that hasn't quite been fully explained by the our Better rep. On page 1 our Loan Amount is 124,200 but on page 5 the Amount Financed is 123,800. Our Better rep says these are prepaids but couldn't elaborate when further pressed. Google search suggests that this is where hidden fees or finance charges are stashed. In the grand scheme of things I am not bothered by a $400 difference... much. I was hoping to gain a better (pun intended :wink: ) understanding of the relationship between these two amounts. Can anyone offer some insight? Thank you!
Mrs K
Difference will be Box D costs minus any lender credits.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:30 pm
MrJedi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:26 pm
tj wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:48 pm
Cycle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:34 pm Does one click "include closing costs in loan" before generating the loan rate table at better?
Why would you do that? Most people are doing no-cost refi's or negligible cash outs, Including closing costs in the loan just increases your debt.
If there is significant prepaids or escrow funding you can still wind up with closing costs that aren't really part of the real cost of the refinance. In those cases I still prefer to just roll the costs into the loan. I don't mind increasing the debt because I like the interest rate (hence doing the refi) and plan to make minimum payments anyway.
I’ve been doing the same as MrJedi. It streamlines things and the difference is not that much, especially if it is because of escrows and you are about to get an escrow refund that you could, if you wanted, use for an extra principal payment.
Doesn't increasing the loan balance also increase the credit sometimes?
Ryzen
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ryzen »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:43 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:30 pm
MrJedi wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:26 pm
tj wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:48 pm
Cycle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:34 pm Does one click "include closing costs in loan" before generating the loan rate table at better?
Why would you do that? Most people are doing no-cost refi's or negligible cash outs, Including closing costs in the loan just increases your debt.
If there is significant prepaids or escrow funding you can still wind up with closing costs that aren't really part of the real cost of the refinance. In those cases I still prefer to just roll the costs into the loan. I don't mind increasing the debt because I like the interest rate (hence doing the refi) and plan to make minimum payments anyway.
I’ve been doing the same as MrJedi. It streamlines things and the difference is not that much, especially if it is because of escrows and you are about to get an escrow refund that you could, if you wanted, use for an extra principal payment.
Doesn't increasing the loan balance also increase the credit sometimes?
I can confirm at Better it does (slightly). Credit went up after rolling in loan costs/escrow funding and asking for some extra cash out (just under the $2k limit).
BogleHead1008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BogleHead1008 »

Did 3 refi's in the last 6 years, but always with my broker. Never paid any costs, only 6 months advance escrow.

My broker offered
-----------------------
1.875% with 0 costs to me

Better.com (have several amices)
-----------------------
1.75% with 4193$ loan costs including points

Bankrate shows 1.75% with $1564 costs. Do I need to go thru the application for bankrate or just the basic info will do to ask the better.com to match it?

Sorry for asking the same questions like 100 other guys might have asked, but this is all new to me.

Hopefully someone can guide me on how to do this right.

TIA
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

Krishmk wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:56 am Did 3 refi's in the last 6 years, but always with my broker. Never paid any costs, only 6 months advance escrow.

My broker offered
-----------------------
1.875% with 0 costs to me

Better.com (have several amices)
-----------------------
1.75% with 4193$ loan costs including points

Bankrate shows 1.75% with $1564 costs. Do I need to go thru the application for bankrate or just the basic info will do to ask the better.com to match it?

Sorry for asking the same questions like 100 other guys might have asked, but this is all new to me.

Hopefully someone can guide me on how to do this right.

TIA
Start the application with Better and when someone contacts you send them the screenshot with full details of what Bankrate is showing and ask if they can match their advertised price. That's what worked for getting them to match Bankrate.
BogleHead1008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BogleHead1008 »

bws wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:22 am
Krishmk wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:56 am Did 3 refi's in the last 6 years, but always with my broker. Never paid any costs, only 6 months advance escrow.

My broker offered
-----------------------
1.875% with 0 costs to me

Better.com (have several amices)
-----------------------
1.75% with 4193$ loan costs including points

Bankrate shows 1.75% with $1564 costs. Do I need to go thru the application for bankrate or just the basic info will do to ask the better.com to match it?

Sorry for asking the same questions like 100 other guys might have asked, but this is all new to me.

Hopefully someone can guide me on how to do this right.

TIA
Start the application with Better and when someone contacts you send them the screenshot with full details of what Bankrate is showing and ask if they can match their advertised price. That's what worked for getting them to match Bankrate.
Thank you for the quick reply. I have the loan application going with Better, and will talk to them on Monday about matching bankrate.
Ironically, the bankrate first offer was better.com 1.75% loan.. just messed up how these entities quote differently when using different providers
av111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by av111 »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:14 am Wow that’s great

Anyone refinancing loans around $622k

We’re trying to get under 3% without paying anything
That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
Check Ally. Recently locked in with them at 2.625 7/6m for a 1.8m loan with 16k lender credit
AV111
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

Current Loan
----------------
2.5% 30-yr fixed
Refinanced about 10 months ago
Local lender in Ohio

Better.com
-------------
Just completed their initial application and shows I am pre-approved. The rate table shows the following.
$275K loan (less than 50% LTV)
Appraisal waived

Rate Table
30 yr fixed, 2.875%, $1,345 credit
30 yr fixed, 3%, $2,736 credit
20 yr fixed, 2.875%, $2,504 credit
20 yr fixed, 3%, $3,644 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.5%, $3,802 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.75%, $4,489 credit

I think will be also eligible for AmEx credit.

Bankrate
-----------
2.5%, 0 points (Better) - I have taken a screenshot of this

Lenderfi (They seem to have higher credits than Better for the same rate)
----------
30 yr fixed, 2.75%, $2,261 credit (Better charges $345 in points)
20 yr fixed, 2.625%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $345)
15 yr fixed, 2.125%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $99)

I know I already have a very good rate with my current lender. Also, even though I am paying extra principal every month, I like the flexibility in cash flow due to 30-yr term. Given all that, what should be my strategy, if I want to make $$ from this refinancing? How do I do my breakeven analysis while comparing different options and against my current loan?

Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

Current Loan
----------------
2.5% 30-yr fixed
Refinanced about 10 months ago
Local lender in Ohio

Better.com
-------------
Just completed their initial application and shows I am pre-approved. The rate table shows the following.
$275K loan (less than 50% LTV)
Appraisal waived

Rate Table
30 yr fixed, 2.875%, $1,345 credit
30 yr fixed, 3%, $2,736 credit
20 yr fixed, 2.875%, $2,504 credit
20 yr fixed, 3%, $3,644 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.5%, $3,802 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.75%, $4,489 credit

I think will be also eligible for AmEx credit.

Bankrate
-----------
2.5%, 0 points (Better) - I have taken a screenshot of this

Lenderfi (They seem to have higher credits than Better for the same rate)
----------
30 yr fixed, 2.75%, $2,261 credit (Better charges $345 in points)
20 yr fixed, 2.625%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $345)
15 yr fixed, 2.125%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $99)

I know I already have a very good rate with my current lender. Also, even though I am paying extra principal every month, I like the flexibility in cash flow due to 30-yr term. Given all that, what should be my strategy, if I want to make $$ from this refinancing? How do I do my breakeven analysis while comparing different options and against my current loan?

Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
When you are on bankrate, they default to showing featured lenders, you want to click all so that you can see all the Better rates. Also check the 15 year rates, if the pricing is better (it is for me), you might get better pricing on a 30 year rate from that than what they show for 30 year rates.
InvestorDave
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestorDave »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

Current Loan
----------------
2.5% 30-yr fixed
Refinanced about 10 months ago
Local lender in Ohio

Better.com
-------------
Just completed their initial application and shows I am pre-approved. The rate table shows the following.
$275K loan (less than 50% LTV)
Appraisal waived

Rate Table
30 yr fixed, 2.875%, $1,345 credit
30 yr fixed, 3%, $2,736 credit
20 yr fixed, 2.875%, $2,504 credit
20 yr fixed, 3%, $3,644 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.5%, $3,802 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.75%, $4,489 credit

I think will be also eligible for AmEx credit.

Bankrate
-----------
2.5%, 0 points (Better) - I have taken a screenshot of this

Lenderfi (They seem to have higher credits than Better for the same rate)
----------
30 yr fixed, 2.75%, $2,261 credit (Better charges $345 in points)
20 yr fixed, 2.625%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $345)
15 yr fixed, 2.125%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $99)

I know I already have a very good rate with my current lender. Also, even though I am paying extra principal every month, I like the flexibility in cash flow due to 30-yr term. Given all that, what should be my strategy, if I want to make $$ from this refinancing? How do I do my breakeven analysis while comparing different options and against my current loan?

Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
I had very similar numbers as you. I submitted a screenshot of the Bankrate 15 year 1.75% showing $0 in upfront costs. After I did that, my 30 year 2.5% rate also adjusted and it went from charging a small amount (I forgot how much) to turning into a $4,839 credit!

So I would take a screenshot on Bankrate (make sure you include the top bar that shows what you input for property value and loan amount) and send that to your Loan Consultant.
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:18 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

Current Loan
----------------
2.5% 30-yr fixed
Refinanced about 10 months ago
Local lender in Ohio

Better.com
-------------
Just completed their initial application and shows I am pre-approved. The rate table shows the following.
$275K loan (less than 50% LTV)
Appraisal waived

Rate Table
30 yr fixed, 2.875%, $1,345 credit
30 yr fixed, 3%, $2,736 credit
20 yr fixed, 2.875%, $2,504 credit
20 yr fixed, 3%, $3,644 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.5%, $3,802 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.75%, $4,489 credit

I think will be also eligible for AmEx credit.

Bankrate
-----------
2.5%, 0 points (Better) - I have taken a screenshot of this

Lenderfi (They seem to have higher credits than Better for the same rate)
----------
30 yr fixed, 2.75%, $2,261 credit (Better charges $345 in points)
20 yr fixed, 2.625%, $2,261 credit (Better offers credit of $345)
15 yr fixed, 2.125%, $2,261 credit (Better offers credit of $99)

I know I already have a very good rate with my current lender. Also, even though I am paying extra principal every month, I like the flexibility in cash flow due to 30-yr term. Given all that, what should be my strategy, if I want to make $$ from this refinancing? How do I do my breakeven analysis while comparing different options and against my current loan?

Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
When you are on bankrate, they default to showing featured lenders, you want to click all so that you can see all the Better rates. Also check the 15 year rates, if the pricing is better (it is for me), you might get better pricing on a 30 year rate from that than what they show for 30 year rates.
Yes, I did click over to see All lenders on Bankrate, which is where I saw 2.5%, 0 Points for Better. It showed rates lower than 2.5% but all of them required points. They did not show anything for higher rates with lender credit for Better.

It was 1.875% for 15 yr fixed with 0 points for Better. Again, nothing showing higher rate/lender credits.

So, should I send 2.5% @ 0 points screenshot to Better and see what they will do on lender credits? And/or, should I send Lenderfi rate with higher lender credit (it is not a Loan Estimate, mind you)? Or, is there some other strategy that I can follow for them to sweeten the pot for me?
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

InvestorDave wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:26 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

Current Loan
----------------
2.5% 30-yr fixed
Refinanced about 10 months ago
Local lender in Ohio

Better.com
-------------
Just completed their initial application and shows I am pre-approved. The rate table shows the following.
$275K loan (less than 50% LTV)
Appraisal waived

Rate Table
30 yr fixed, 2.875%, $1,345 credit
30 yr fixed, 3%, $2,736 credit
20 yr fixed, 2.875%, $2,504 credit
20 yr fixed, 3%, $3,644 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.5%, $3,802 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.75%, $4,489 credit

I think will be also eligible for AmEx credit.

Bankrate
-----------
2.5%, 0 points (Better) - I have taken a screenshot of this

Lenderfi (They seem to have higher credits than Better for the same rate)
----------
30 yr fixed, 2.75%, $2,261 credit (Better charges $345 in points)
20 yr fixed, 2.625%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $345)
15 yr fixed, 2.125%, $2,261 credit (Better offer credit of $99)

I know I already have a very good rate with my current lender. Also, even though I am paying extra principal every month, I like the flexibility in cash flow due to 30-yr term. Given all that, what should be my strategy, if I want to make $$ from this refinancing? How do I do my breakeven analysis while comparing different options and against my current loan?

Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
I had very similar numbers as you. I submitted a screenshot of the Bankrate 15 year 1.75% showing $0 in upfront costs. After I did that, my 30 year 2.5% rate also adjusted and it went from charging a small amount (I forgot how much) to turning into a $4,839 credit!

So I would take a screenshot on Bankrate (make sure you include the top bar that shows what you input for property value and loan amount) and send that to your Loan Consultant.
Thank you! Did you lock rate on Better before sending the screenshot? Did you send it proactively (before/after locking), or only after Better made a contact with you?
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 am
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:18 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

Current Loan
----------------
2.5% 30-yr fixed
Refinanced about 10 months ago
Local lender in Ohio

Better.com
-------------
Just completed their initial application and shows I am pre-approved. The rate table shows the following.
$275K loan (less than 50% LTV)
Appraisal waived

Rate Table
30 yr fixed, 2.875%, $1,345 credit
30 yr fixed, 3%, $2,736 credit
20 yr fixed, 2.875%, $2,504 credit
20 yr fixed, 3%, $3,644 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.5%, $3,802 credit
15 yr fixed, 2.75%, $4,489 credit

I think will be also eligible for AmEx credit.

Bankrate
-----------
2.5%, 0 points (Better) - I have taken a screenshot of this

Lenderfi (They seem to have higher credits than Better for the same rate)
----------
30 yr fixed, 2.75%, $2,261 credit (Better charges $345 in points)
20 yr fixed, 2.625%, $2,261 credit (Better offers credit of $345)
15 yr fixed, 2.125%, $2,261 credit (Better offers credit of $99)

I know I already have a very good rate with my current lender. Also, even though I am paying extra principal every month, I like the flexibility in cash flow due to 30-yr term. Given all that, what should be my strategy, if I want to make $$ from this refinancing? How do I do my breakeven analysis while comparing different options and against my current loan?

Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
When you are on bankrate, they default to showing featured lenders, you want to click all so that you can see all the Better rates. Also check the 15 year rates, if the pricing is better (it is for me), you might get better pricing on a 30 year rate from that than what they show for 30 year rates.
Yes, I did click over to see All lenders on Bankrate, which is where I saw 2.5%, 0 Points for Better. It showed rates lower than 2.5% but all of them required points. They did not show anything for higher rates with lender credit for Better.

It was 1.875% for 15 yr fixed with 0 points for Better. Again, nothing showing higher rate/lender credits.

So, should I send 2.5% @ 0 points screenshot to Better and see what they will do on lender credits? And/or, should I send Lenderfi rate with higher lender credit (it is not a Loan Estimate, mind you)? Or, is there some other strategy that I can follow for them to sweeten the pot for me?
Well, you have to do the math. 30 year rate are usually 50 bps higher than 15 year rates. If 1.875% is 15 year 0 points, then the 30 year no points should be 2.375%, so the 15 year pricing is better.

But you probably want to pick the one with a small amount of points. If 15 year 1.75% or 30 year 2.375% is less than 1/2 a point compared to the 0 point 15 year and 30 year shown, then you would get the 15 year 1.875% or 30 year 2.5% with a small credit....
BackOfTheNet
Posts: 259
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BackOfTheNet »

Just a note, I've done a few refis over the last couple of years with LoFi Direct. Rates are good right off the bat without a lot of back and forth (matching etc). Worth a look IMO, good lender credits.
tj
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

BackOfTheNet wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:34 am Just a note, I've done a few refis over the last couple of years with LoFi Direct. Rates are good right off the bat without a lot of back and forth (matching etc). Worth a look IMO, good lender credits.
I don't see any rates on their website.
InvestorDave
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:23 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestorDave »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am Thank you! Did you lock rate on Better before sending the screenshot? Did you send it proactively (before/after locking), or only after Better made a contact with you?
I sent the screenshot before I locked my rate in. It only took a couple hours for my Loan Consultant to get my rates adjusted. I probably wouldn't expect to see any rate updates until tomorrow since it's Sunday. I would send the screenshot of the 1.875% 15 year rate and then after they update your rate table you can check and see what the 2.5% 30 Year rate looks like. When you update the 15 year rate it is also going to change your 30 year rate on Better at the same time.
newbie20
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:33 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 am
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:18 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

...


Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
When you are on bankrate, they default to showing featured lenders, you want to click all so that you can see all the Better rates. Also check the 15 year rates, if the pricing is better (it is for me), you might get better pricing on a 30 year rate from that than what they show for 30 year rates.
Yes, I did click over to see All lenders on Bankrate, which is where I saw 2.5%, 0 Points for Better. It showed rates lower than 2.5% but all of them required points. They did not show anything for higher rates with lender credit for Better.

It was 1.875% for 15 yr fixed with 0 points for Better. Again, nothing showing higher rate/lender credits.

So, should I send 2.5% @ 0 points screenshot to Better and see what they will do on lender credits? And/or, should I send Lenderfi rate with higher lender credit (it is not a Loan Estimate, mind you)? Or, is there some other strategy that I can follow for them to sweeten the pot for me?
Well, you have to do the math. 30 year rate are usually 50 bps higher than 15 year rates. If 1.875% is 15 year 0 points, then the 30 year no points should be 2.375%, so the 15 year pricing is better.

But you probably want to pick the one with a small amount of points. If 15 year 1.75% or 30 year 2.375% is less than 1/2 a point compared to the 0 point 15 year and 30 year shown, then you would get the 15 year 1.875% or 30 year 2.5% with a small credit....
You are right on the money! Bankrate shows 1.75% with 0.498 points (15 yr) and 2.375% with 0.538 points (30 yr). Are you saying that I should take a screenshot of one of these and send it to Better to see improvements in my rate table?

Thank you!
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

InvestorDave wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:41 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am Thank you! Did you lock rate on Better before sending the screenshot? Did you send it proactively (before/after locking), or only after Better made a contact with you?
I sent the screenshot before I locked my rate in. It only took a couple hours for my Loan Consultant to get my rates adjusted. I probably wouldn't expect to see any rate updates until tomorrow since it's Sunday. I would send the screenshot of the 1.875% 15 year rate and then after they update your rate table you can check and see what the 2.5% 30 Year rate looks like. When you update the 15 year rate it is also going to change your 30 year rate on Better at the same time.
OK, thanks, @InvestorDave. I will do that and see what happens tomorrow. I should just reply to one of the automated emails that have popped in, correct? Or, do I need to upload it on their portal?
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:47 am
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:33 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 am
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:18 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am After reading about so many of you making money while refinancing, I am tempted :wink:

...


Appreciate your thoughts, suggestions, anything!
When you are on bankrate, they default to showing featured lenders, you want to click all so that you can see all the Better rates. Also check the 15 year rates, if the pricing is better (it is for me), you might get better pricing on a 30 year rate from that than what they show for 30 year rates.
Yes, I did click over to see All lenders on Bankrate, which is where I saw 2.5%, 0 Points for Better. It showed rates lower than 2.5% but all of them required points. They did not show anything for higher rates with lender credit for Better.

It was 1.875% for 15 yr fixed with 0 points for Better. Again, nothing showing higher rate/lender credits.

So, should I send 2.5% @ 0 points screenshot to Better and see what they will do on lender credits? And/or, should I send Lenderfi rate with higher lender credit (it is not a Loan Estimate, mind you)? Or, is there some other strategy that I can follow for them to sweeten the pot for me?
Well, you have to do the math. 30 year rate are usually 50 bps higher than 15 year rates. If 1.875% is 15 year 0 points, then the 30 year no points should be 2.375%, so the 15 year pricing is better.

But you probably want to pick the one with a small amount of points. If 15 year 1.75% or 30 year 2.375% is less than 1/2 a point compared to the 0 point 15 year and 30 year shown, then you would get the 15 year 1.875% or 30 year 2.5% with a small credit....
You are right on the money! Bankrate shows 1.75% with 0.498 points (15 yr) and 2.375% with 0.538 points (30 yr). Are you saying that I should take a screenshot of one of these and send it to Better to see improvements in my rate table?

Thank you!
I'd screenshot the 15 year 1.75%, although it's only negligibly different than the 15 year 1.875.
InvestorDave
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:23 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestorDave »

For those that have used Better to refinance, did any of you shop around for title services? My loan estimate shows "Lenders Title Insurance" costing $1,922 which is way higher than the $680 that I paid to SolidiFi last year on my refinance. I'm assuming that I can just call several local title companies and get a quote from them, is that correct? I'm guessing that the downside is that it might take my loan longer to close.
gcc
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gcc »

I'm having a problem getting Better to price match their offer on Bankrate

I see 2.5% 30-year 0 pt on bankrate, but my rates on better require $5,918 in points for the same 2.5%

When I asked Better to match they said they are unable to because the offers on Bankrate require that there be an existing loan of at least $10k. I have a paid off home.

So I've asked them to refinance for me twice - once at 3.x% where they give me ~$4.5k in credits, and then immediately at 2.5% 0 points

Still waiting on a reply
Pessimist55
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 12:16 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Pessimist55 »

They'd prefer a lender estimate than these screenshots that are not as detailed
InvestorDave
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:23 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestorDave »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:49 am
InvestorDave wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:41 am
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:40 am Thank you! Did you lock rate on Better before sending the screenshot? Did you send it proactively (before/after locking), or only after Better made a contact with you?
I sent the screenshot before I locked my rate in. It only took a couple hours for my Loan Consultant to get my rates adjusted. I probably wouldn't expect to see any rate updates until tomorrow since it's Sunday. I would send the screenshot of the 1.875% 15 year rate and then after they update your rate table you can check and see what the 2.5% 30 Year rate looks like. When you update the 15 year rate it is also going to change your 30 year rate on Better at the same time.
OK, thanks, @InvestorDave. I will do that and see what happens tomorrow. I should just reply to one of the automated emails that have popped in, correct? Or, do I need to upload it on their portal?
Just reply to the "You're pre-approved" email and that will go to your Loan Consultant. Just tell them "I'm seeing better rates on Bankrate and want to see if you can match those rates. I included a screenshot to show you the rates I'm seeing." That should be enough to get it all adjusted.
InvestorDave
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:23 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestorDave »

gcc wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am I'm having a problem getting Better to price match their offer on Bankrate

I see 2.5% 30-year 0 pt on bankrate, but my rates on better require $5,918 in points for the same 2.5%

When I asked Better to match they said they are unable to because the offers on Bankrate require that there be an existing loan of at least $10k. I have a paid off home.

So I've asked them to refinance for me twice - once at 3.x% where they give me ~$4.5k in credits, and then immediately at 2.5% 0 points

Still waiting on a reply
That could definitely be an issue if you don't have an existing mortgage. When I did a refi last year on my property with no mortgage I wasn't able to get as good of a rate because I didn't have an existing mortgage.
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

InvestorDave wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am For those that have used Better to refinance, did any of you shop around for title services? My loan estimate shows "Lenders Title Insurance" costing $1,922 which is way higher than the $680 that I paid to SolidiFi last year on my refinance. I'm assuming that I can just call several local title companies and get a quote from them, is that correct? I'm guessing that the downside is that it might take my loan longer to close.
I tried to shop around but didn't have much luck getting anything lower. I'd find out who did your title last year and see if they will do it and also let me know.

A few title companies have been mentioned

Amrock
Radian
Better Settlement Services
Title 365
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:51 am

I'd screenshot the 15 year 1.75%, although it's only negligibly different than the 15 year 1.875.
One more question - should I screenshot the rate that shows the highest difference in point values between Bankrate and my rate table on Better? For example, the difference between two sites for 1.75% is about $3,600 (15 yr term) whereas for 2.375%, it is about $4,800 (30 yr term). Should I send the screenshot of 2.375% hoping that it'd result in more rewarding adjustment on the whole rate table?

Also, I remember reading earlier that you are free to select whichever term/rate that they show in their portal, not just what you negotiate on. Am I correct?
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:26 pm
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:51 am

I'd screenshot the 15 year 1.75%, although it's only negligibly different than the 15 year 1.875.
One more question - should I screenshot the rate that shows the highest difference in point values between Bankrate and my rate table on Better? For example, the difference between two sites for 1.75% is about $3,600 (15 yr term) whereas for 2.375%, it is about $4,800 (30 yr term). Should I send the screenshot of 2.375% hoping that it'd result in more rewarding adjustment on the whole rate table?

Also, I remember reading earlier that you are free to select whichever term/rate that they show in their portal, not just what you negotiate on. Am I correct?
on the bolded, that's correct. Perhaps BrandonBogle will chime in on the rest.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:34 pm
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:26 pm
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:51 am

I'd screenshot the 15 year 1.75%, although it's only negligibly different than the 15 year 1.875.
One more question - should I screenshot the rate that shows the highest difference in point values between Bankrate and my rate table on Better? For example, the difference between two sites for 1.75% is about $3,600 (15 yr term) whereas for 2.375%, it is about $4,800 (30 yr term). Should I send the screenshot of 2.375% hoping that it'd result in more rewarding adjustment on the whole rate table?

Also, I remember reading earlier that you are free to select whichever term/rate that they show in their portal, not just what you negotiate on. Am I correct?
on the bolded, that's correct. Perhaps BrandonBogle will chime in on the rest.
Probably my last chime in for a bit as I’m a plane off the continent at the moment! Lol.

Yes, you can change the rate and term up to closing. You can also submit a competing LE for any rate and term (available to you) up to closing.
pindevil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

Better had to switch title companies on me because our house is in a trust. The new title company will take the house out of the trust temporarily for the loan to complete. Once better completes the loan the title company will put the house back in the trust.

This is my first time dealing with this but I guess it's a normal part of the process. Anything I need to watch out for?
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:49 pm
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:34 pm
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:26 pm
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:51 am

I'd screenshot the 15 year 1.75%, although it's only negligibly different than the 15 year 1.875.
One more question - should I screenshot the rate that shows the highest difference in point values between Bankrate and my rate table on Better? For example, the difference between two sites for 1.75% is about $3,600 (15 yr term) whereas for 2.375%, it is about $4,800 (30 yr term). Should I send the screenshot of 2.375% hoping that it'd result in more rewarding adjustment on the whole rate table?

Also, I remember reading earlier that you are free to select whichever term/rate that they show in their portal, not just what you negotiate on. Am I correct?
on the bolded, that's correct. Perhaps BrandonBogle will chime in on the rest.
Probably my last chime in for a bit as I’m a plane off the continent at the moment! Lol.

Yes, you can change the rate and term up to closing. You can also submit a competing LE for any rate and term (available to you) up to closing.
What do you think about the first part of the question? Should I submit a screenshot showing the greatest difference between Bankrate and their rate table?

Safe travels, and thanks for your help!
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