Refinance Mega Thread

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Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

FYI on a Turbotax bug that is likely highly relevant to this group:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=337934
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:30 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:10 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 pm How long are your refinances taking?

I started mine with CITI in August, and it's been pushed out consistently - now with a target closing of 2/19. My current loan is with WF.

With CITI, I'm at 3.125% with 0 points for a $950K jumbo loan. This includes a 0.125 discount for being a customer. I know rates are better now, but I can't get CITI to update my quote. They say they will do it once we get to closing.

Should I stick it out, or just move on with a new bank?
Since August 2020, I’ve refinanced the same property three times now.
Jumbos, where big banks have the best rates, are a different story.
True, but 6 months is excessive even for a jumbo. Hopefully with the higher limits now, ngfunky is in a zip code where s/he is almost in supercomforming territory and can look at paying down or splitting into a superconforming first + second mortgage.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 pm How long are your refinances taking?
I was three months into a Jumbo refi with a regional bank. When the FHFA increased the conforming loan limit, I bailed and ended up with Better.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
ngfunky
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ngfunky »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:40 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 pm How long are your refinances taking?

I started mine with CITI in August, and it's been pushed out consistently - now with a target closing of 2/19. My current loan is with WF.

With CITI, I'm at 3.125% with 0 points for a $950K jumbo loan. This includes a 0.125 discount for being a customer. I know rates are better now, but I can't get CITI to update my quote. They say they will do it once we get to closing.

Should I stick it out, or just move on with a new bank?
Whats you house worth? SFH? CA?
House is in CA, ~$1.8M, currently in a jumbo loan with Well Fargo.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:42 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:40 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 pm How long are your refinances taking?

I started mine with CITI in August, and it's been pushed out consistently - now with a target closing of 2/19. My current loan is with WF.

With CITI, I'm at 3.125% with 0 points for a $950K jumbo loan. This includes a 0.125 discount for being a customer. I know rates are better now, but I can't get CITI to update my quote. They say they will do it once we get to closing.

Should I stick it out, or just move on with a new bank?
Whats you house worth? SFH? CA?
House is in CA, ~$1.8M, currently in a jumbo loan with Well Fargo.
since you're at 50% LTV, looks like you should bail and go with owning, or somebody else. At a better rate, and quicker.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

MNPerson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:16 pm
presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:08 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:32 pm
MNPerson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:22 pm
bholm83 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:15 pm I'm talking with a loan depot rep today and he says rates were at an all time low in August but mortage news dailys shows rates at 2.75 for 30 year fixed rate (as of today). Were they really lower back in August?


He said he could 'beg' for a 2.625 30 year fixed refi but just curious what you guys are getting. I'm looking at a 465K loan, 790 credit score. LTV is 80%.


http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... daily.aspx
I'm curious about this too. Rate quotes today look about .25% higher than when I locked 12/30, relative to public quotes I saw at the time. But MBS says rates are at all-time low today. I was reading yesterday that lenders are increasing their margins right now because of demand. I'm guessing that's it but would be interested to know from more knowledgeable folks here.
you have to confirm but I believe those rates are an average based on volume of refi vs. purchases as well. Refi costs more due to the .5% fee charged to lenders. That can explain some of the variance.

also specific lender capacity can explain some of the difference you're seeing between lenders too.
I agree. The rates on this site are based on a survey, i.e. what are people getting on average. In this thread, we're focused on getting the lowest possible rates.

Back in August/September, when IM was offering 2.375% no-cost for a 30-year in CA and LC was even better for some people, my neighbor did a refi at 2.99% where he had to pay thousands in closing costs. After I alerted him to what IM was offering, he immediately did another refi at 2.375% no-cost. Clearly a lot of lenders were making fat margins back then, even though a few lenders were offering great pricing. That was playing into the survey results.

Since then, margins have normalized. Lenders like IM, LC, and LF are no longer as big of an outlier as they used to be. So the average pricing has improved, even while the "best case" pricing has worsened recently.

I find LC's website to be useful in getting a sense of what the best case pricing looks like (not that they are always the best, but typically at least very close).
I'm referring to just a month ago. The public quotes are about .25% higher than what I saw a month ago so this isn't about the fee. I'm guessing they're taking higher margins now. No other explanation for it that I know of. It was easy for me to get a private quote of 2.5% that last week of December, zero points. The best I got was 2.375 with zero points which I leveraged to Loan Depot for 2.25 no points. But you couldn't get 2.375 today no points. Probably not 2.5 no points. These all 30-year rates.
That's because US Treasury rates rose. On Dec 31, the 10-year Treasury was at 0.92%. By Jan 12, it had risen to 1.14%. That is almost a quarter percentage point increase within a 2 week period. I think the main driver was basically the Georgia runoff election; with Democrats taking control of Congress and the presidency, the market expects more inflation.

Lenders who were making fat margins might have been able to keep their rates steady or even continue to reduce them despite this rise in Treasury rates. But the cheapest lenders had to raise their rates.

It's worth noting that the 10-year Treasury is now back to 1.01%, so 2.5% no points is now back on the table at some places (IM went from 2.375% to 2.625% and is now back to 2.5%).

There is one other variable that I ignored in my discussion above, which is the spread of MBS over Treasuries. This spread was generally falling over the 2nd half of 2020, so that is why mortgage rates were able to fall even as Treasury yields rose (10-year Treasury was close to 0.5% in early August). The spread had gotten abnormally high after COVID hit.
ngfunky
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ngfunky »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:44 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:42 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:40 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 pm How long are your refinances taking?

I started mine with CITI in August, and it's been pushed out consistently - now with a target closing of 2/19. My current loan is with WF.

With CITI, I'm at 3.125% with 0 points for a $950K jumbo loan. This includes a 0.125 discount for being a customer. I know rates are better now, but I can't get CITI to update my quote. They say they will do it once we get to closing.

Should I stick it out, or just move on with a new bank?
Whats you house worth? SFH? CA?
House is in CA, ~$1.8M, currently in a jumbo loan with Well Fargo.
since you're at 50% LTV, looks like you should bail and go with owning, or somebody else. At a better rate, and quicker.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm kicking off with another bank - Owning just quoted me at 3.875% which is WAY better than CITI. It seems others like LoanDepot and LenderFi do not cover my loan amount of ~$940.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:19 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:44 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:42 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:40 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 pm How long are your refinances taking?

I started mine with CITI in August, and it's been pushed out consistently - now with a target closing of 2/19. My current loan is with WF.

With CITI, I'm at 3.125% with 0 points for a $950K jumbo loan. This includes a 0.125 discount for being a customer. I know rates are better now, but I can't get CITI to update my quote. They say they will do it once we get to closing.

Should I stick it out, or just move on with a new bank?
Whats you house worth? SFH? CA?
House is in CA, ~$1.8M, currently in a jumbo loan with Well Fargo.
since you're at 50% LTV, looks like you should bail and go with owning, or somebody else. At a better rate, and quicker.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm kicking off with another bank - Owning just quoted me at 3.875% which is WAY better than CITI. It seems others like LoanDepot and LenderFi do not cover my loan amount of ~$940.
You mean 2.875%, I hope! Congrats! Take that Loan Estimate to Better, see if they beat it, and then call it a day. I wouldn't pay down to 822k (conforming maximum) in your case since you'll only end up at 2.5% at best right now. Not worth the ~120k pay down. But maybe next year, if the conforming rate goes to 870k, your balance is down to 900k, and rates are still low. Cheers.
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Ben Mathew
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ben Mathew »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:36 pm
Ben Mathew wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:21 pm Is lenderfi's online published rates their best rates? So if those rates are too high for me, there would be no point in applying?
Last year, you used to be able to do a row or two better... but now the rates look pretty much on bar with the best rates available (for my scenario), so I'm not sure, and I am curious as well.
anon_investor wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:39 pm When I did my refi with LenderFi at the end of July, the online listed rates were about 0.25% higher than what they actually offered me.
JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:17 pm LenderFi's online rate last week was 2.75 for me, but they offered 2.625. So, if you're actively shopping and getting offers from other lenders, why not apply?
Thanks for the info. Looks like it might be worth applying.
Total Portfolio Allocation and Withdrawal (TPAW)
ngfunky
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ngfunky »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:23 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:19 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:44 pm
ngfunky wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:42 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:40 pm

Whats you house worth? SFH? CA?
House is in CA, ~$1.8M, currently in a jumbo loan with Well Fargo.
since you're at 50% LTV, looks like you should bail and go with owning, or somebody else. At a better rate, and quicker.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm kicking off with another bank - Owning just quoted me at 3.875% which is WAY better than CITI. It seems others like LoanDepot and LenderFi do not cover my loan amount of ~$940.

You mean 2.875%, I hope! Congrats! Take that Loan Estimate to Better, see if they beat it, and then call it a day. I wouldn't pay down to 822k (conforming maximum) in your case since you'll only end up at 2.5% at best right now. Not worth the ~120k pay down. But maybe next year, if the conforming rate goes to 870k, your balance is down to 900k, and rates are still low. Cheers.
DOH - yes, 2.875%. I'll check with Better as well. Thanks so much! :happy
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:20 pm
anon_investor wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:41 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:10 am LenderFi lines up the investors well and they have a very defined process to manage their pipeline, so things move swiftly unless they hit a hiccup with investors buying loans. They ran into this over the summer and had to stop taking on new refis for a bit, but it didn’t impact existing refis in flight other than maybe a few day delay. Meanwhile, most lenders don’t even shop the loan until after the refi closes and funds, so they basically check every box Fannie Mae offers so that they can shop a refi to as many investors as possible.
This lines up with my experience with LenderFi on my refi at the end of July. LenderFi was able to sell my loan and transfer servicing before the first payment was even due.
How does that affect you, i.e., the borrower?
The Lender probably has an incentive to move faster since they have a buyer lined up to take the loan off their books. It also means me, the borrower never has to deal with an interim servicer.
LiveMusic
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LiveMusic »

I appreciate everyone's help on this thread, and a special :sharebeer to Brandon.
I closed with Better today - 15 yrs, 2%, $1.2K net credit.

I didnt do much hunting for rates, the info in this thread really helped me streamline it to the below:
1. Reached out to UWM - 2.125% with $1.5K credit
2. Applied to Lenderfi - 2.0% with 0 net credit
3. Took 2 to Better.Better beat LF by about 200$. Saved an additional 1k in Appraisal and Section C(Radian) costs.

Thanks again.
giddyup969
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by giddyup969 »

LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:48 pm I closed with Better today - 15 yrs, 2%, $1.2K net credit.
Congrats! is that $1.2K net credit after covering A+B+C+E? Or just overall Lender Credits?
LiveMusic
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LiveMusic »

Yes, that is net credit after covering A + B + C + E
giddyup969 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:59 pm
LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:48 pm I closed with Better today - 15 yrs, 2%, $1.2K net credit.
Congrats! is that $1.2K net credit after covering A+B+C+E? Or just overall Lender Credits?
TTS330
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TTS330 »

Getting very close to closing with Better.

Thanks to the great advice here, my total closing costs is negative. Silly followup question: This checks the "cash to close" TO borrower, so as expected they owe me some money (a little over a grand). How does this work? Do they send me a check? Does it have to get applied to something else?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:48 pm I appreciate everyone's help on this thread, and a special :sharebeer to Brandon.
I closed with Better today - 15 yrs, 2%, $1.2K net credit.

I didnt do much hunting for rates, the info in this thread really helped me streamline it to the below:
1. Reached out to UWM - 2.125% with $1.5K credit
2. Applied to Lenderfi - 2.0% with 0 net credit
3. Took 2 to Better.Better beat LF by about 200$. Saved an additional 1k in Appraisal and Section C(Radian) costs.

Thanks again.
Awe. Congrats and thank you! Pay it forward to someone on the forum (or elsewhere) that ever needs pointing in the right direction to getting their financial house in order. Meeting the Bogleheads put me on the path to financial independence and I do what I can to help others where possible.
TTS330 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:39 pm Getting very close to closing with Better.

Thanks to the great advice here, my total closing costs is negative. Silly followup question: This checks the "cash to close" TO borrower, so as expected they owe me some money (a little over a grand). How does this work? Do they send me a check? Does it have to get applied to something else?
Typically a check gets overnighted to you upon funding, though you may also be able to ask for it to be wired. Instructions on how to get you the funds should be part of your closing docs.

In my refis, the settlement agent sent a check via FedEx Next Day Standard (delivery by 8 pm), except for the one where I used a local settlement agent, so they met me at the curb of their office with a check.
DoveBogle
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Refi Worth It?

Post by DoveBogle »

I’m considering if I should help some friends with a refinance, but I’m not sure if it’s actually worth it for them. Situation:

Current rate: 4%
Time before they sell the house: ~3-5 years
Owed: 190k
Value: 550k
State: NY

Would it be worth it to do a no cost refi down to 3% or 2.75 for just a few years? Thanks for your advice!
p_haze
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by p_haze »

So my 6 months were up with LenderFi and I checked in about the rate insurance and they locked in a 2.5% for me right away for a no cost new 30 year term. Does anyone know whether the 6 month clawback period starts again?

p_haze wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:35 pm
I refinanced back in March and looking to refinance again. Yesterday, I locked with LenderFI at 2.875 with $1500 in lender credit to cover all closing costs for a 30 year fixed. Loan balance is $665,000. I am in MA with 61% LTV.
My refinance in March was with LoanDepot (great experience and they had the best rates) and the original loan was from Chase. LoanDepot called me this morning and will likely make a retention offer. Waiting to hear back.
TTS330
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TTS330 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:50 pm Typically a check gets overnighted to you upon funding, though you may also be able to ask for it to be wired. Instructions on how to get you the funds should be part of your closing docs.

In my refis, the settlement agent sent a check via FedEx Next Day Standard (delivery by 8 pm), except for the one where I used a local settlement agent, so they met me at the curb of their office with a check.
Thanks!
financial.freedom
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by financial.freedom »

Narrowed it down to two lenders and need some help deciding for 822k loan 30-year fixed:

1. Chase (JP Morgan)
2.5% (2.492% APR)
Total closing costs: $65
D = $2,958
(D+I) $4,027
Lender credits $3,962
Loan servicer states 30-60 days to close (expects 40 days)

2. LenderFi
2.5% (2.508% APR)
Total closing costs: $225
D = $1,988
(D+I) $2,417
Lender credits $2,192
Loan servicer states 30 days to close

I'm inclined to go with Chase since the terms are a little better. Also my checking account is there, which makes it more convenient in months I'm able to make additional principal payments.

Rates are locked in for both loans. Chase states they will renew the rate if it takes longer than 30 days. For LenderFi, I have an appraiser scheduled to come out to the house on Tuesday of next week ($328 charge).

Questions:
1. Do you agree that I should go with Chase?
2. Should I go ahead and cancel the LenderFi appraiser?

Thank you in advance!
Last edited by financial.freedom on Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LassoTheMoon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LassoTheMoon »

Just got the clear to close on my first mortgage and I feel like I’m on top of the world. I had a tough time beating myself up and comparing two options. Both for $510k.

A 15-year at 1.875% no points, 2.9k lender credit
A 30-year at 2.375% no points, 2.5k lender credit

I ended up with the 30 year. I’m moving from NY to Chicago, so the flexibility will be great to have. If need be, I can refinance. Otherwise, I can just put my cash to work.

This thread was a great resource as I went through the process for the first time. It was a little bit of a time consuming process as I wanted to leave no stone unturned, but all worthwhile I suppose.

Andy at Clover Key Home Loans was great to work with on securing the deal. Check them out - I think they are available in IL, AZ and CA.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

financial.freedom wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:30 pm Narrowed it down to two lenders and need some help deciding for 822k loan 30-year fixed:

1. Chase (JP Morgan)
2.5% (2.492% APR)
Total closing costs: $65
(D+I) $4,027
Lender credits $3,962
Loan servicer states 30-60 days to close (expects 40 days)

2. LenderFi
2.5% (2.508% APR)
Total closing costs: $225
(D+I) $2,417
Lender credits $2,192
Loan servicer states 30 days to close

I'm inclined to go with Chase since the terms are a little better. Also my checking account is there, which makes it more convenient in months I'm able to make additional principal payments.

Rates are locked in for both loans. Chase states they will renew the rate if it takes longer than 30 days. For LenderFi, I have an appraiser scheduled to come out to the house on Tuesday of next week ($328 charge).

Questions:
1. Do you agree that I should go with Chase?
2. Should I go ahead and cancel the LenderFi appraiser?

Thank you in advance!
Looks like you are calculating closing costs as D+I minus lender credits. Can you tell us what each lender is charging for D? I think the best way to compare is D minus lender credits.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

LassoTheMoon wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:44 pm Just got the clear to close on my first mortgage and I feel like I’m on top of the world. I had a tough time beating myself up and comparing two options. Both for $510k.

A 15-year at 1.875% no points, 2.9k lender credit
A 30-year at 2.375% no points, 2.5k lender credit

I ended up with the 30 year. I’m moving from NY to Chicago, so the flexibility will be great to have. If need be, I can refinance. Otherwise, I can just put my cash to work.

This thread was a great resource as I went through the process for the first time. It was a little bit of a time consuming process as I wanted to leave no stone unturned, but all worthwhile I suppose.

Andy at Clover Key Home Loans was great to work with on securing the deal. Check them out - I think they are available in IL, AZ and CA.
Congrats and nice deal! Do they charge an origination fee or other lender fees (e.g. in sections A or B of the loan estimate)?
presto987
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Re: Refi Worth It?

Post by presto987 »

DoveBogle wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:54 pm I’m considering if I should help some friends with a refinance, but I’m not sure if it’s actually worth it for them. Situation:

Current rate: 4%
Time before they sell the house: ~3-5 years
Owed: 190k
Value: 550k
State: NY

Would it be worth it to do a no cost refi down to 3% or 2.75 for just a few years? Thanks for your advice!
If it is a no cost refi, then yes, absolutely. In year 1 alone, they’d save $1900 in interest for a 1% rate drop.

But I know things are complicated in NY. Would it really be no cost even when considering all the fees?
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

p_haze wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:59 pm So my 6 months were up with LenderFi and I checked in about the rate insurance and they locked in a 2.5% for me right away for a no cost new 30 year term. Does anyone know whether the 6 month clawback period starts again?

p_haze wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:35 pm
I refinanced back in March and looking to refinance again. Yesterday, I locked with LenderFI at 2.875 with $1500 in lender credit to cover all closing costs for a 30 year fixed. Loan balance is $665,000. I am in MA with 61% LTV.
My refinance in March was with LoanDepot (great experience and they had the best rates) and the original loan was from Chase. LoanDepot called me this morning and will likely make a retention offer. Waiting to hear back.
In all likelihood, yes, the clock would start again. This is a new loan, and they want you to keep it for 6 months so that the purchaser doesn’t sell it back to them.
financial.freedom
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by financial.freedom »

presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:05 pm
financial.freedom wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:30 pm Narrowed it down to two lenders and need some help deciding for 822k loan 30-year fixed:

1. Chase (JP Morgan)
2.5% (2.492% APR)
Total closing costs: $65
(D+I) $4,027
Lender credits $3,962
Loan servicer states 30-60 days to close (expects 40 days)

2. LenderFi
2.5% (2.508% APR)
Total closing costs: $225
(D+I) $2,417
Lender credits $2,192
Loan servicer states 30 days to close

I'm inclined to go with Chase since the terms are a little better. Also my checking account is there, which makes it more convenient in months I'm able to make additional principal payments.

Rates are locked in for both loans. Chase states they will renew the rate if it takes longer than 30 days. For LenderFi, I have an appraiser scheduled to come out to the house on Tuesday of next week ($328 charge).

Questions:
1. Do you agree that I should go with Chase?
2. Should I go ahead and cancel the LenderFi appraiser?

Thank you in advance!
Looks like you are calculating closing costs as D+I minus lender credits. Can you tell us what each lender is charging for D? I think the best way to compare is D minus lender credits.
Thank you for the reply.

for Chase D = $2,958
for LenderFi D = $1,988
tilo_sea
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tilo_sea »

JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:12 am
tilo_sea wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:41 pm
tilo_sea wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:26 pm Can someone pls help the noob here.

Outstanding principal- 271k (37% LTV)
Current interest rate: 3.25%
Location- Seattle (King County)
Remaining on current loan- 29 years.
Property type: Townhome
Credit: 760+
New loan term: 15 years.
  • Local broker
    Interest rate: 2.00%; $1000 (underwriting fee) + $1100 (Title) - $0 (lender credits)
  • Better.com
    Option 1: 2% interest rate, $1000 (points) + $1100 (title) - $0 (lender credits)
    Option 2: 2.125% interest rate, $0 (points) + $1100 (title) - $400 (lender credits)
    Option 3: 2.25% interest rate, $0 (points) + $1100 (title) - $2300 (lender credits)
Locked in with better.com Option 3 (2.25% with $2300 credits). Did I make the right choice?


Checked with bunch of other lenders, most of them were offering in the range of 2.125 to 2.25 with no credits. Had missed the bus in Jan 1st week when better.com was offering 2% w/o points.
Contacted the processing agent about chime promo, though I didn't originally apply using chime link. She went ahead and added $500 to my credits. So now my total lender credits with Option 3 are $2800. Planning to apply remainder credits (after deducting loan costs) towards principal. Still slightly better deal than Option #2 for me since I'm not planning to stay in this house for more than 7-8 years.

Also contacted quicken loans for match or beat promo, they couldn't beat it. Hoping to get $250 from there :D
How long ago did you get those rates? Wow.
These are rates from Jan 14. I locked with Better.com on Jan 15 and they have been moving incredibly fast. Underwriting, title etc. is complete and I'm expecting closing disclosures tomorrow.
Last edited by tilo_sea on Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

@financial.freedom

Ok, so looks like Chase is about $800 better.

Reasons to go with Chase:
- $800 better deal
- they’ll hold onto the servicing, which is more convenient than having to set up payments with different servicers as your loan gets sold.
- servicing should be good

Reasons to go with LenderFi:
- they’ll close faster
- the pricing will be honored. It seems risky that Chase will reprice you after 30 days. If they expect it to take 30-60 days, then what is the likelihood of closing before the 30 day rate lock expires? If it’s a low probability, then the rate lock is useless.
- if you back out now after locking, LenderFi won’t like it. There’s a chance they might refuse to do business with you in the future.

I’m not sure what the benefit of having a Chase checking account is. Couldn’t you link up that same account to any servicing platform and make extra principal payments?
DoveBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DoveBogle »

financial.freedom wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:12 pm
presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:05 pm
financial.freedom wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:30 pm Narrowed it down to two lenders and need some help deciding for 822k loan 30-year fixed:

1. Chase (JP Morgan)
2.5% (2.492% APR)
Total closing costs: $65
(D+I) $4,027
Lender credits $3,962
Loan servicer states 30-60 days to close (expects 40 days)

2. LenderFi
2.5% (2.508% APR)
Total closing costs: $225
(D+I) $2,417
Lender credits $2,192
Loan servicer states 30 days to close

I'm inclined to go with Chase since the terms are a little better. Also my checking account is there, which makes it more convenient in months I'm able to make additional principal payments.

Rates are locked in for both loans. Chase states they will renew the rate if it takes longer than 30 days. For LenderFi, I have an appraiser scheduled to come out to the house on Tuesday of next week ($328 charge).

Questions:
1. Do you agree that I should go with Chase?
2. Should I go ahead and cancel the LenderFi appraiser?

Thank you in advance!
Looks like you are calculating closing costs as D+I minus lender credits. Can you tell us what each lender is charging for D? I think the best way to compare is D minus lender credits.
Thank you for the reply.

for Chase D = $2,958
for LenderFi D = $1,988
I would go with Chase personally. They are just a pleasant bank to deal with. I was trying to get a good rate with Chase and struggled! Can you please PM me who your loan officer is and how I can reach them?
financial.freedom
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by financial.freedom »

presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:26 pm @financial.freedom

Ok, so looks like Chase is about $800 better.

Reasons to go with Chase:
- $800 better deal
- they’ll hold onto the servicing, which is more convenient than having to set up payments with different servicers as your loan gets sold.
- servicing should be good

Reasons to go with LenderFi:
- they’ll close faster
- the pricing will be honored. It seems risky that Chase will reprice you after 30 days. If they expect it to take 30-60 days, then what is the likelihood of closing before the 30 day rate lock expires? If it’s a low probability, then the rate lock is useless.
- if you back out now after locking, LenderFi won’t like it. There’s a chance they might refuse to do business with you in the future.

I’m not sure what the benefit of having a Chase checking account is. Couldn’t you link up that same account to any servicing platform and make extra principal payments?
Thank you, really appreciate it. LenderFi just called me, loan officer really upset says he was "taken aback" that I locked in with Chase and that's not the way to shop around. He's giving me until 9am to make a decision.

Yes, I meant setting up different servicers etc. -- that happened to me in the past and it didn't link my checking account. Behaviorally, I'm less inclined to make extra payments on principal down the road if I have to write additional physical checks. I know it's no big deal, but just knowing myself and busy schedule it doesn't happen.

Spoke with Chase, and they said no need to be concerned about the lock expiring. They said they'll honor it, even if it take longer such as 60 days. Loan officer says that hasn't happened at all in his experience the past couple years.
BarDownHockey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

I’ve heard that Chase is extending rate locks for free because their processing times are running a little slow. YMMV, but as long as you’re responsive when they have requests for information, you’d have a pretty good case for them extending it if needed. Doing it for free is also consistent with what other lenders have been offering due to the high refi demand over the past year.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

financial.freedom wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:30 pm 1. Chase (JP Morgan)
2.5% (2.492% APR)
Total closing costs: $65
D = $2,958
(D+I) $4,027
Lender credits $3,962
I know APR is a poor value to use to evaluate things b/c of variance of what is/isn't included in it, but anyone care to explain to me how the APR is lower than the rate? I guess its possible that Chase, unlike others, includes the lender credits in their APR calc?
financial.freedom
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by financial.freedom »

BarDownHockey wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:49 pm I’ve heard that Chase is extending rate locks for free because their processing times are running a little slow. YMMV, but as long as you’re responsive when they have requests for information, you’d have a pretty good case for them extending it if needed. Doing it for free is also consistent with what other lenders have been offering due to the high refi demand over the past year.
Thank you, makes me feel better about going with Chase. Their loan rep said the same.

LenderFi rep says it’s a bad decision to go with Chase and that it’ll cost me more in the end because he thinks they’ll take 90 days to close and he thinks he can close in 30 days. But I don’t think the difference in interest is that much since I’m about 6 years into my current loan and refinancing resets the amortization schedule.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

financial.freedom wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:19 pm
BarDownHockey wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:49 pm I’ve heard that Chase is extending rate locks for free because their processing times are running a little slow. YMMV, but as long as you’re responsive when they have requests for information, you’d have a pretty good case for them extending it if needed. Doing it for free is also consistent with what other lenders have been offering due to the high refi demand over the past year.
Thank you, makes me feel better about going with Chase. Their loan rep said the same.

LenderFi rep says it’s a bad decision to go with Chase and that it’ll cost me more in the end because he thinks they’ll take 90 days to close and he thinks he can close in 30 days. But I don’t think the difference in interest is that much since I’m about 6 years into my current loan and refinancing resets the amortization schedule.
LenderFi is closing my refi in less than 10 days...hilarious
dubsem
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dubsem »

I'm a refi newbie, and reviewed my 30-year fixed loan estimate with Better.

Can anyone please explain why the loan estimate contains 'other costs' prepaid property taxes and insurance if I opted out of escrow? Also, is six months of prepaids standard for Better's closing costs? After looking through Google searches and old Bogle threads, I've got nothing still.

Thanks in advance.
thatme
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by thatme »

thatme wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:10 pm I applied with Interactive Mortgage a few days before Xmas. Locked in at 1.99%, 15-year fixed, with no cost to me. Communication has been slow, but things seem to be progressing as expected. Hoping to close in the next few weeks. This will be my second refi in the last year - got a 2.375%, 15-year with LenderFi earlier last year. These rates are crazy - when I got the 2.375% I thought I'd never refi again because I couldn't imagine it going lower. I'm saying the same thing now but who knows...


Closed with Interactive last night - 1.99%, 15-year fixed, no closing costs or fees. Took just over 30 days from start to finish, great process. I can't imagine rates going lower at this point but if they do, I'll be back here doing it again!
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

financial.freedom wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:19 pm
BarDownHockey wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:49 pm I’ve heard that Chase is extending rate locks for free because their processing times are running a little slow. YMMV, but as long as you’re responsive when they have requests for information, you’d have a pretty good case for them extending it if needed. Doing it for free is also consistent with what other lenders have been offering due to the high refi demand over the past year.
Thank you, makes me feel better about going with Chase. Their loan rep said the same.

LenderFi rep says it’s a bad decision to go with Chase and that it’ll cost me more in the end because he thinks they’ll take 90 days to close and he thinks he can close in 30 days. But I don’t think the difference in interest is that much since I’m about 6 years into my current loan and refinancing resets the amortization schedule.
Chase seems like the way to go then. I just realized that I misinterpreted what you meant when you said Chase will “renew the rate” if it takes longer than 30 days. I interpreted “renew” to mean that they would refresh your pricing to current levels, but now I realize that you meant they would extend your lock. This makes sense because that’s what most lenders are doing - I agree with BarDownHockey.

I am not surprised that LenderFi was upset. Some lenders don’t care if you shop around after locking with them, but they care a lot.
elwood_
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by elwood_ »

thatme wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:10 pm I applied with Interactive Mortgage a few days before Xmas. Locked in at 1.99%, 15-year fixed, with no cost to me. Communication has been slow, but things seem to be progressing as expected. Hoping to close in the next few weeks. This will be my second refi in the last year - got a 2.375%, 15-year with LenderFi earlier last year. These rates are crazy - when I got the 2.375% I thought I'd never refi again because I couldn't imagine it going lower. I'm saying the same thing now but who knows...
That's an awesome deal, congrats! What's your loan details?
presto987
Posts: 487
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

dubsem wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:48 am I'm a refi newbie, and reviewed my 30-year fixed loan estimate with Better.

Can anyone please explain why the loan estimate contains 'other costs' prepaid property taxes and insurance if I opted out of escrow? Also, is six months of prepaids standard for Better's closing costs? After looking through Google searches and old Bogle threads, I've got nothing still.

Thanks in advance.
Escrow establishes an ongoing account where the servicer pays the taxes and insurance. Prepaids are a one time thing that are paid by the title company. It is a Fannie/Freddie requirement that your taxes and insurance are paid through a certain date.

If I recall correctly, I think they’re required to collect whatever is due within the next 2 months. So if you have a half year’s worth of property taxes due within the next 6 months, that whole amount will be a prepaid.

Whatever is on the LE is an estimate and can change by the time you close. When I refi’d with Better, they showed prepaid property taxes on my LE, but I closed quickly enough that they were able to remove it as the due date was more than 2 months out.
thatme
Posts: 263
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by thatme »

elwood_ wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:26 am
thatme wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:10 pm I applied with Interactive Mortgage a few days before Xmas. Locked in at 1.99%, 15-year fixed, with no cost to me. Communication has been slow, but things seem to be progressing as expected. Hoping to close in the next few weeks. This will be my second refi in the last year - got a 2.375%, 15-year with LenderFi earlier last year. These rates are crazy - when I got the 2.375% I thought I'd never refi again because I couldn't imagine it going lower. I'm saying the same thing now but who knows...
That's an awesome deal, congrats! What's your loan details?
430K loan amount, about 55% LTV. Excellent credit and income, nothing special though. Crazy stuff!
LiveMusic
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LiveMusic »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:50 pm
LiveMusic wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:48 pm I appreciate everyone's help on this thread, and a special :sharebeer to Brandon.
I closed with Better today - 15 yrs, 2%, $1.2K net credit.

I didnt do much hunting for rates, the info in this thread really helped me streamline it to the below:
1. Reached out to UWM - 2.125% with $1.5K credit
2. Applied to Lenderfi - 2.0% with 0 net credit
3. Took 2 to Better.Better beat LF by about 200$. Saved an additional 1k in Appraisal and Section C(Radian) costs.

Thanks again.
Awe. Congrats and thank you! Pay it forward to someone on the forum (or elsewhere) that ever needs pointing in the right direction to getting their financial house in order. Meeting the Bogleheads put me on the path to financial independence and I do what I can to help others where possible.
Absolutely! I am still working on that path towards FI, and yes this forum has been my guiding light so far.
Also spread word among friends and family.
Manowarfan1
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Manowarfan1 »

Hello all,
New poster here. Been trying to go through several threads on this board and get some wisdom before posting, I am a long way behind most of you all. My situation is about to change a bit, as I am going to be inheriting some money from a parents estate that will get me a bit closer to getting my retirement and investments squared away (there will be a post on that board too :)

I have a house back in Colorado Springs (now living in Maryland), with the following:
4.75% loan with 20 years to go
Owe: approximately 88,000
Current value per zillow and others 275-290,000
I am currently renting to an ex employee (they pay 1000/month, I hope I am at least getting good karma points for taking care of a single mom) which now pays the house payment. I chanced homeowners insurance over to USAA which knocked current payment down to 735/mo and pay 900/month.

I am considering selling this house and taking the profit if the market has not crashed by summer (that gives me plenty of time to warn renter and give her time to find a place though not much chance of her getting anything in that price range) as I have to go back to CO in spring or summer to prepare parents house for sale (I will get 1/5 of that, so my share will probably be 100-150k).

It is possible I hold on to house, in which case refi definitely makes sense, but even if not, it may be worth it. It is currently with Mr Cooper/Nationwide. It looks like the total would be 95,000, so I assume they'd be paying off the 88000 and the rest is fees, which seems very high on that amount of loan. Maybe some of you all can tell me if this makes sense. i am going to try a couple of the lenders I see referenced on this board, but when I check my FICO score on some of these sites I get anywhere from 678-697. My "credit score" on most sites is sitting at 750.

This loan would be a 30 year at 3.5% (3.8801 APR). Paying off 87401 (may be lower now) with a proposed amount of 94,500. My payments include Taxes and Insurance (no Mortgage insurance required). They did say they may be able to avoid doing an appraisal as 1)they already have the loan and 2 it is worth so much more than the loan amount. My payment at the time of the quote was 834.15 per month but that has gone down by 100/month switching homeowners to USAA. So the proposed payment would likely also drop, from 663 to 553/month.

I replied to the proposal stating that 6500 seemed like an awful lot of fees on this sized loan, but have not received a reply. If I have given enough information, does this seem like a worthwhile deal if I were to sell within a year, I'd hate to miss out on really good rates and then end up keeping the thing. The market in the Springs is so hot currently that I don't think it would be on the market for long at all (possibly a week) and I will be trying to sell AS IS so I don't have to drag things out.

I do plan on taking the proceeds from the sale of that house and buying a small farm/homestead further south (NC, TN seem to have good prices and cost of living), if that affects anyone's advice. I plan on shopping a couple of the sites I saw on here (have contacted Better, and another) and am looking in to USAA and possibly Navy Federal.

I appreciate any help or advice or pinions offered,
Jeff
bholm83
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bholm83 »

So in talking to a loan officer at Sebonic, he said that when I refi, and if my home appraises for more than what I bought it for my LTV would go above 80% and therefore I would be paying mortage insurance. Isn't there a way to avoid this by simply paying more upfront so my LTV gets to 80%? Right now I'm about about 81% (because of closing costs are rolled in).
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

bholm83 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:49 pm So in talking to a loan officer at Sebonic, he said that when I refi, and if my home appraises for more than what I bought it for my LTV would go above 80% and therefore I would be paying mortage insurance. Isn't there a way to avoid this by simply paying more upfront so my LTV gets to 80%? Right now I'm about about 81% (because of closing costs are rolled in).
I suspect you mean appraises for LESS, instead of more. Assuming that is the case, I would focus on seeing if they waive the appraisal when checking your property in Fannie's desktop underwriting tool. If they don't get approval to waive it and then require an appraisal, it is something you need to consider if the cost of the appraisal (typically around $500) would be worth the risk it comes back lower than you need for an 80% LTV and you would not proceed with the refi. Keep in mind that last part, b/c even if the appraisal comes back resulting in an LTV over 80%, you may still find it worthwhile to do the refi. It all depends on costs, reduction in interest rate, and how much PMI would be.
pd5rm
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pd5rm »

I just got off the phone with Interactive Mortgage. My loan lock will expire on Feb 5, but the earliest the appraisers can come out is Feb 16. I'm in the SF bay area, so it has always been a crazy market.

Is there anything I can do here to keep my 15 year / 1.99 % refi attempt alive?

I said that other lenders were offering appraisal waivers, and she said we could try dropping the appraisal amount to below 1M (it appraised at 1.45M when we purchased 2 years ago) and decreasing loan amount so I'm below some LTV requirement. Is this a good idea?

I saw this bit on the FM site (https://selling-guide.fanniemae.com/Con ... 4-2021.htm) about exterior only appraisal due to COVID restrictions.

Should I restart my rate search process all over again with other lenders?
bholm83
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bholm83 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:54 pm
bholm83 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:49 pm So in talking to a loan officer at Sebonic, he said that when I refi, and if my home appraises for more than what I bought it for my LTV would go above 80% and therefore I would be paying mortage insurance. Isn't there a way to avoid this by simply paying more upfront so my LTV gets to 80%? Right now I'm about about 81% (because of closing costs are rolled in).
I suspect you mean appraises for LESS, instead of more. Assuming that is the case, I would focus on seeing if they waive the appraisal when checking your property in Fannie's desktop underwriting tool. If they don't get approval to waive it and then require an appraisal, it is something you need to consider if the cost of the appraisal (typically around $500) would be worth the risk it comes back lower than you need for an 80% LTV and you would not proceed with the refi. Keep in mind that last part, b/c even if the appraisal comes back resulting in an LTV over 80%, you may still find it worthwhile to do the refi. It all depends on costs, reduction in interest rate, and how much PMI would be.

I'm really new to all of this so maybe am making this more complicated than it needs to be. I purchased my home for 580K and put 20% down. If it appraises for less than my sale price (let's just say 575K) I would have over 20% equity in my home, correct? Isn't that all you need to avoid PMI?

I should note I was denied an appraisal waiver, but will shop for C (title insurance) since it currently sits around $3200. I imagine I can bring that down a little at least, just don't get the PMI part...
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:54 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:53 am On #3, this is not something I am willing to pay. There should be no overlap in interest as the funds on my new loan should be immediately sent to pay off the old loan on the same day. If it's sitting for 3-4 days, someone is making money on the interest and the bank shouldn't capture that by holding the funds. It is true the loan estimate will have a few days of overlap built in, but that should get trued up after the fact with a check coming from one of the lenders. I always check the math on the amount I receive and if there is a difference I have always successfully fought it.
Well, 3-4 days sounds like a weekend was involved there.

In my seven lifetime refis, only did this last one fund and payoff on the same day. Every other one had payoff the day after funding. All were done by wire. If it was by overnight check, I can imagine there being even an extra day’s interest there.

So while many get the payoff done same day as funding, it’s still extremely common for payoff to be the day after funding. If funding occurs on a Friday, then I can totally see overlapping interest until the payoff is sent on Monday.
I'm fine with paying for 1 extra day if needed as I understand there is a bit of a settlement period on a wire. I would not be fine with 3-4 extra days of double interest and see it as unnecessary. If a weekend is involved, it's better to push funding to Monday than to pay double interest for that many days.
surfstar
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by surfstar »

pd5rm wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:58 pm I just got off the phone with Interactive Mortgage. My loan lock will expire on Feb 5, but the earliest the appraisers can come out is Feb 16. I'm in the SF bay area, so it has always been a crazy market.

Is there anything I can do here to keep my 15 year / 1.99 % refi attempt alive?

I said that other lenders were offering appraisal waivers, and she said we could try dropping the appraisal amount to below 1M (it appraised at 1.45M when we purchased 2 years ago) and decreasing loan amount so I'm below some LTV requirement. Is this a good idea?

I saw this bit on the FM site (https://selling-guide.fanniemae.com/Con ... 4-2021.htm) about exterior only appraisal due to COVID restrictions.

Should I restart my rate search process all over again with other lenders?
Rates jumped the first half of January, but have come back down to where they were. http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... daily.aspx
I think you should be fine - but I'd tell them that if they increase your rate, you'll shop around. We locked just before Xmas with Loan Depot and they gave a 60-day lock with no extra cost (and I hadn't even requested the longer lock). Closed and funded this week.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

bholm83 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:09 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:54 pm
bholm83 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:49 pm So in talking to a loan officer at Sebonic, he said that when I refi, and if my home appraises for more than what I bought it for my LTV would go above 80% and therefore I would be paying mortage insurance. Isn't there a way to avoid this by simply paying more upfront so my LTV gets to 80%? Right now I'm about about 81% (because of closing costs are rolled in).
I suspect you mean appraises for LESS, instead of more. Assuming that is the case, I would focus on seeing if they waive the appraisal when checking your property in Fannie's desktop underwriting tool. If they don't get approval to waive it and then require an appraisal, it is something you need to consider if the cost of the appraisal (typically around $500) would be worth the risk it comes back lower than you need for an 80% LTV and you would not proceed with the refi. Keep in mind that last part, b/c even if the appraisal comes back resulting in an LTV over 80%, you may still find it worthwhile to do the refi. It all depends on costs, reduction in interest rate, and how much PMI would be.

I'm really new to all of this so maybe am making this more complicated than it needs to be. I purchased my home for 580K and put 20% down. If it appraises for less than my sale price (let's just say 575K) I would have over 20% equity in my home, correct? Isn't that all you need to avoid PMI?

I should note I was denied an appraisal waiver, but will shop for C (title insurance) since it currently sits around $3200. I imagine I can bring that down a little at least, just don't get the PMI part...
if your house appraises for 575k and your loan is more than 460k, you have less than 20% equity, if your loan is less than 460k, then you have more than 20% equity... just tell the appraiser what you need it to be. Pay the loan down to 20% equity, if you need to.
JCK
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JCK »

So, it's not going so well with Better for me.

I locked around Dec. 22 while on vacation, and had the appraisal done on Jan. 5. My lock expires next Friday (Feb. 5), and the appraisal still, more than 3 weeks later, hasn't come back. My better contact is telling me that there's an appraisal backlog in California, but isn't giving me any info on how they handle if the report comes back too late. (Last two refinances, the appraisal report came back in two days and six days, respectively.). Everything else is basically approved and ready to go.

At this point, seems like there is very little hope of closing in time to beat the lock.

Anyone having similar issues? Any thoughts on how to go from here? Repeatedly asking the Loan Processor hasn't moved the needle. I don't want to be out the appraisal fee or stuck paying lock extension fees...
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