Refinance Mega Thread

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

2quiker wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:17 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:48 pm
2quiker wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:07 pm Not sure how people are having luck with Lenderfi. I have tried 3 times to refi with the. I am able to get them to send me 1 LE but when I ask about getting another one they don't respond and by the time they do they come back with really bad credits.
LenderFi is a no-nonsense lender. If you ask for more than one LE, that means you are shopping around.

Their modus operandi is for you to come to them when you are done shopping around. Thus, they send you the LE out of a legal requirement, but they sour the terms because they don’t want to work with you on that app anymore.
So one should go to LenderFi last after shopping around?
Yes
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:18 am Btw, I signed my initial docs with loan cabin on 8/24.
I’ve refi 2x with another company and my loan cabin file is still stuck in processing.
Sounds like Network Capital!
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:26 am
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:09 am Closing was on 12/24.
3 day rescission ended on 12/29
Loan was funded on 12/30
Money was wired on 12/31 at approx 11am.

Called previous lender today but after 2 hours on the phone I couldn't reach a human. Will try again tomorrow. The account still shows full loan balance. I've not made this months payment hoping that the payoff will happen before 15th of the month (after which I'm subject to penalty); then I can mail the check to new lender instead. If the payoff wire is not processed by this Friday I'll probably make a payment to avoid the late fees and/or credit report ding.
Ouch. That sucks. You might feel anxious, but try not to worry about it. Today was the first business day after the wire transfer. It very well could be processed overnight and you see it tomorrow.
Thanks, you are right. The payoff was processed this morning. Unfortunately this means I'll post 5 days off overlapping interest (31 to 4th) instead of typical 1-2 days.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:28 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:26 am
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:09 am Closing was on 12/24.
3 day rescission ended on 12/29
Loan was funded on 12/30
Money was wired on 12/31 at approx 11am.

Called previous lender today but after 2 hours on the phone I couldn't reach a human. Will try again tomorrow. The account still shows full loan balance. I've not made this months payment hoping that the payoff will happen before 15th of the month (after which I'm subject to penalty); then I can mail the check to new lender instead. If the payoff wire is not processed by this Friday I'll probably make a payment to avoid the late fees and/or credit report ding.
Ouch. That sucks. You might feel anxious, but try not to worry about it. Today was the first business day after the wire transfer. It very well could be processed overnight and you see it tomorrow.
Thanks, you are right. The payoff was processed this morning. Unfortunately this means I'll post 5 days off overlapping interest (31 to 4th) instead of typical 1-2 days.
I’m sorry to say that this isn’t atypical.

Many times the receiving lender will have a cutoff time for wires to be processed same day and not only can you run into a scenario where the settlement agent waits until the day after funding to send the payoff, the receiving lender may not process the payoff until the next business day after their cutoff.

It sucks and you are likely not to get anywhere if you seek someone reimbursing those days. Each entity is likely to respond saying they did their part in a timely matter and a +1 business day delay is reasonable from their point of view.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

I locked with a lender and the current LE G. Escrow increased from the first LE.
I know this escrow but why does it change from 3 months to 9 months?
I would rather pay 3 months vs 9 months.

Original LE
Homeowners insurance - 3 months

Latest LE
Homeowners insurance - 9 months
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

2quiker wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:44 am I locked with a lender and the current LE G. Escrow increased from the first LE.
I know this escrow but why does it change from 3 months to 9 months?
I would rather pay 3 months vs 9 months.

Original LE
Homeowners insurance - 3 months

Latest LE
Homeowners insurance - 9 months
Likely one is their default estimate regardless of renewal date and the later one accounts for when your renewal is. Either way, it can adjust again prior to closing and they may have leeway on it if you ask it to be reduced when your closing disclosures are prepared.
maddogio
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by maddogio »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:18 am Quick update on owning.com

Honestly, the most painless refi.
I thought better.com was smooth. But man, owning was baby skin smooth.
12/14: reached out to owning to see what rates they offer. Sent over minimal documents.
12/22: sign with notary
12/31: loan funded

Ymmv
1st payment 2/1

Btw, I signed my initial docs with loan cabin on 8/24.
I’ve refi 2x with another company and my loan cabin file is still stuck in processing.
owning.com operates only in California, correct?
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:18 am Quick update on owning.com

Honestly, the most painless refi.
I thought better.com was smooth. But man, owning was baby skin smooth.
12/14: reached out to owning to see what rates they offer. Sent over minimal documents.
12/22: sign with notary
12/31: loan funded

Ymmv
1st payment 2/1

Btw, I signed my initial docs with loan cabin on 8/24.
I’ve refi 2x with another company and my loan cabin file is still stuck in processing.
I had a similar experience with both Owning.com and InteractiveMortgage.com. Both were super quick, especially if they waive the appraisal requirements.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

maddogio wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:18 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:18 am Quick update on owning.com

Honestly, the most painless refi.
I thought better.com was smooth. But man, owning was baby skin smooth.
12/14: reached out to owning to see what rates they offer. Sent over minimal documents.
12/22: sign with notary
12/31: loan funded

Ymmv
1st payment 2/1

Btw, I signed my initial docs with loan cabin on 8/24.
I’ve refi 2x with another company and my loan cabin file is still stuck in processing.
owning.com operates only in California, correct?
I’m not sure what state owning.com operates in. But I’m in Ca
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

maddogio wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:18 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:18 am Quick update on owning.com

Honestly, the most painless refi.
I thought better.com was smooth. But man, owning was baby skin smooth.
12/14: reached out to owning to see what rates they offer. Sent over minimal documents.
12/22: sign with notary
12/31: loan funded

Ymmv
1st payment 2/1

Btw, I signed my initial docs with loan cabin on 8/24.
I’ve refi 2x with another company and my loan cabin file is still stuck in processing.
owning.com operates only in California, correct?
I’m not sure what state owning.com operates in. But I’m in Ca
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

maddogio wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:18 pm owning.com operates only in California, correct?
https://owning.com wrote: © 2020 Owning Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
Owning Corporation CA DRE #02063270.
NMLS Unique Identifier #1797976.
DRE MLO Endorsement #1797976.
Licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the
California Residential Mortgage Lending Act,
License #41DBO-101357.

NMLS Consumer Access
https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/EntityDetails.aspx/COMPANY/1797976 wrote:

Code: Select all

State Licenses/Registrations (Displaying 2 Active of 2 Total)
Regulator  More Info	License/Registration Name	Authorized to Conduct Business  More Info	Consumer Complaint  More Info	 view all details
California - DBO	Residential Mortgage Lending Act License	Yes	Submit to Regulator	 View Details
California - DRE	Real Estate Corporation License Endorsement	Yes	Submit to Regulator	 View Details
It took me longer to write this post than it took to go to Owning.com and click on their NMLS license entry, which all lenders in the US are required to easily disclose.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:21 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:18 am Quick update on owning.com

Honestly, the most painless refi.
I thought better.com was smooth. But man, owning was baby skin smooth.
12/14: reached out to owning to see what rates they offer. Sent over minimal documents.
12/22: sign with notary
12/31: loan funded

Ymmv
1st payment 2/1

Btw, I signed my initial docs with loan cabin on 8/24.
I’ve refi 2x with another company and my loan cabin file is still stuck in processing.
I had a similar experience with both Owning.com and InteractiveMortgage.com. Both were super quick, especially if they waive the appraisal requirements.
I did get a waived appraisal.
I seriously only talked to them 3x.
1st call was my initial outreach and they gathered info.
2nd call was to discuss what time I can meet the notary.
3rd call was to congratulate me.
Everything was esign and a few emails.

The notary took 20 mins.
It was a 2 step signing. Half of it was esign the day of my notary appointment. The other half was signed with an actual person.
maddogio
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by maddogio »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:31 pm
maddogio wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:18 pm owning.com operates only in California, correct?
https://owning.com wrote: © 2020 Owning Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
Owning Corporation CA DRE #02063270.
NMLS Unique Identifier #1797976.
DRE MLO Endorsement #1797976.
Licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the
California Residential Mortgage Lending Act,
License #41DBO-101357.

NMLS Consumer Access
https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/EntityDetails.aspx/COMPANY/1797976 wrote:

Code: Select all

State Licenses/Registrations (Displaying 2 Active of 2 Total)
Regulator  More Info	License/Registration Name	Authorized to Conduct Business  More Info	Consumer Complaint  More Info	 view all details
California - DBO	Residential Mortgage Lending Act License	Yes	Submit to Regulator	 View Details
California - DRE	Real Estate Corporation License Endorsement	Yes	Submit to Regulator	 View Details
It took me longer to write this post than it took to go to Owning.com and click on their NMLS license entry, which all lenders in the US are required to easily disclose.
Thank you for your service.
mcdb84
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

Owning and IM both only operate in CA.

For those that closed with IM, which mortgage servicer did you end up going to?
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

mcdb84 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:38 pm Owning and IM both only operate in CA.

For those that closed with IM, which mortgage servicer did you end up going to?
I have not yet received notification from IM on the new servicer (loan just closed on 12/31). However during my initial chat with the loan officer, I was told it will "most likely" be sold to CMG group, although they could not be 100% sure until after the loan closes.
mcdb84
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:41 pm
mcdb84 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:38 pm Owning and IM both only operate in CA.

For those that closed with IM, which mortgage servicer did you end up going to?
I have not yet received notification from IM on the new servicer (loan just closed on 12/31). However during my initial chat with the loan officer, I was told it will "most likely" be sold to CMG group, although they could not be 100% sure until after the loan closes.
Cool, I closed on 12/24 as well. Wondering how CMG fares in terms of servicing. I was with PHH mortgage after closing with Owning and I didn't really like them. I had Pennymac for the ones previous to PHH and really liked PMAC the best in terms of being able to make principal payments at anytime.
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

mcdb84 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:48 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:41 pm
mcdb84 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:38 pm Owning and IM both only operate in CA.

For those that closed with IM, which mortgage servicer did you end up going to?
I have not yet received notification from IM on the new servicer (loan just closed on 12/31). However during my initial chat with the loan officer, I was told it will "most likely" be sold to CMG group, although they could not be 100% sure until after the loan closes.
Cool, I closed on 12/24 as well. Wondering how CMG fares in terms of servicing. I was with PHH mortgage after closing with Owning and I didn't really like them. I had Pennymac for the ones previous to PHH and really liked PMAC the best in terms of being able to make principal payments at anytime.
No idea. I would say don't sweat too much about servicer - this is my 8th refi, and servicers keep changing often. I have not had a problem yet with any of my servicers as long as I make timely payment, and keep adequate insurance. The only issue I have had is that some servicers are slower in processing payoff than others; and some have longer wait times when calling the almost non-existant customer service. Also I have not had a servicer for more than a year or so -- usually they end up selling the loan servicing to another company around that time.

From all the servicers I have had, I would say Mr.Cooper was the best, followed by Chase Bank. The others are all similar with minimal websites and minimal staff for support.
mcdb84
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:55 pm
mcdb84 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:48 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:41 pm
mcdb84 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:38 pm Owning and IM both only operate in CA.

For those that closed with IM, which mortgage servicer did you end up going to?
I have not yet received notification from IM on the new servicer (loan just closed on 12/31). However during my initial chat with the loan officer, I was told it will "most likely" be sold to CMG group, although they could not be 100% sure until after the loan closes.
Cool, I closed on 12/24 as well. Wondering how CMG fares in terms of servicing. I was with PHH mortgage after closing with Owning and I didn't really like them. I had Pennymac for the ones previous to PHH and really liked PMAC the best in terms of being able to make principal payments at anytime.
No idea. I would say don't sweat too much about servicer - this is my 8th refi, and servicers keep changing often. I have not had a problem yet with any of my servicers as long as I make timely payment, and keep adequate insurance. The only issue I have had is that some servicers are slower in processing payoff than others; and some have longer wait times when calling the almost non-existant customer service. Also I have not had a servicer for more than a year or so -- usually they end up selling the loan servicing to another company around that time.

From all the servicers I have had, I would say Mr.Cooper was the best, followed by Chase Bank. The others are all similar with minimal websites and minimal staff for support.
Yeah, not too concerned. IM is my 7th Refi as well, so I've had a variety of servicers and all have been pretty much status quo.
jfunk138
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jfunk138 »

Just wanted to add a datapoint to the servicer discussion.

My most recent refi in April is serviced by PHH and the experience has been horrible. First, they opened an escrow account despite the closing documents clearly stating escrow was waived. I had the originator step in to fix this the first time. Then they kept calling my insurance company repeatedly asking for the same documents to be sent multiple times. Then they decided to just pay them anyway, even though I already paid and didn't have an escrow account. Multiple hours on hold and multiple calls were needed to finally get this resolved.

If you get any indication that your mortgage might be serviced by PHH... take the second best offer and go somewhere else.
mcdb84
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

jfunk138 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:23 pm Just wanted to add a datapoint to the servicer discussion.

My most recent refi in April is serviced by PHH and the experience has been horrible. First, they opened an escrow account despite the closing documents clearly stating escrow was waived. I had the originator step in to fix this the first time. Then they kept calling my insurance company repeatedly asking for the same documents to be sent multiple times. Then they decided to just pay them anyway, even though I already paid and didn't have an escrow account. Multiple hours on hold and multiple calls were needed to finally get this resolved.

If you get any indication that your mortgage might be serviced by PHH... take the second best offer and go somewhere else.
Yeah, not surprised and second your opinion about PHH. I waived an escrow account and thankfully it stayed that way. I actually like the freedom of managing my own taxes and insurance. I've only had VA loans exclusively until I did the refi with Owning and went to a conventional loan. I hated the fact that for all my VA loans, the bank would take too much for escrow reserves in the range of 3 to 4 months extra.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

slbnoob wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:37 am When did (either of) you get this offer from LD?
soobaerodude wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:53 am I locked on 12/18
Ditto
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:55 pm From all the servicers I have had, I would say Mr.Cooper was the best, followed by Chase Bank. The others are all similar with minimal websites and minimal staff for support.
I cannot wait to say goodbye to Mr Cooper. An utterly frustrating experience the past few months. I pray my next refi doesn't end up at them.
netrammgc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by netrammgc »

Wanted to add this data point
Loan Depot
1.99% 15 year
192K Traditional Refinance in TX
71% LTV
Closing costs minus prepaids: $1645

Considering increasing interest rate to cover closing costs although I haven't decided yet. Thoughts? I'd rather not have a larger payment.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

netrammgc wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:54 pm Wanted to add this data point
Loan Depot
1.99% 15 year
192K Traditional Refinance in TX
71% LTV
Closing costs minus prepaids: $1645

Considering increasing interest rate to cover closing costs although I haven't decided yet. Thoughts? I'd rather not have a larger payment.
Assuming two notches up gives you enough lender credits to offset that $1645 and thus, you would have a 2.25% 15-year mortgage, it would take 42 months (3.5 years) for the extra interest you are paying at 2.25% to reach $1,599 greater than the interest you pay at 1.99%. So you need to decide if a 3.5 year break-even would be worth it to you.
soobaerodude
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by soobaerodude »

slbnoob wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:59 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:45 am
slbnoob wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:37 am
drk wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:13 pm
soobaerodude wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:16 pm Wanted to add this data point
Loan Depot
2.5% 30 year
758K High Conforming in CA
60% LTV
A + B + C - lender credits = $5700 back to me

They also offered 2.375% with lender credits covering A B C, but it would take 9.5 years of the lower payment to cover the credits at 2.5%
I got pretty much the same offer in WA with an LTV just under 75%.
When did (either of) you get this offer from LD?

I'm in WA and on 12/31, I was quoted 2.5% 30 year on 700k+ loan LTV just under 75% with 51xx in lender credits, which is much less than 5700 back like you.
Is $700k+ in your zip code superconforming or is it jumbo? And that is just a 11-12% difference, which easily can be a difference from one day to the next.
No the difference is more. My lender credits are 51xx whereas for soobaerodude, it is 5700 back after lender credits which I assume must be in the 8k+ range. Looks like soobaerodude locked 2 weeks earlier than me. I thought rates have become more favorable since then, but I could be mistaken.
Is your loan jumbo or high balance conforming?
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

soobaerodude wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:18 pm Is your loan jumbo or high balance conforming?
Loan Depot still isn't doing Jumbo mortgages.
jfunk138
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jfunk138 »

Another Massachusetts data point... LenderFi has beat Provident. Still waiting to see if Loan Depot can beat LenderFi.

Location: MA
Property Value: 440,000
Loan Amount 233,000
2.25% 15 year @ No cost

A+B+C+E = $1318
Lender Credit = $1318

A = $0
B = $228 (assorted fees)
C = $885
E = $205
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

Hi all, thanks for great advice in here. I'm currently waiting to get a few more LEs but here's what I have so far. I'm a bit disappointed, but have yet to start playing the companies off each other. I'd appreciate any and all advice on getting better rates and offers.

784K high balance Conforming in Washington, DC
74.6% LTV
800+ credit scores
HHI $400K, minimal debts
Current rate: 3.75%

BNC
2.75% 30 year, no points
2.625%, 0.25 point buy down
2.5%. 0.5 point buy down
Closing costs = $1095 + title fees, no credits :annoyed

Better.com thru Chime
2.75% 30 year, no points
A+B+C =$4462 - $1237 (lender credit) = $3225
2.625%, 1 point ($1900), no lender credits
2.50%, 2 points ($6700), no lender credits

LenderFi...from their online tool (no formal LE yet)
2.375% 30 yr, 1 point ($408)
A+B+C = $4659, no lender credit
2.5%, no points
A+B+C = $4251 - $3898 (lender credit) = $353

I'm still waiting on offers from Loan Depot and Intelliloan. Unfortunately, Loan Cabin and Interactive Mortgage are not licensed in DC.

LenderFi is so much stronger than the rest. How quick to close? Good experiences? It seems that they can possibly lower the rate once you get on the phone?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:45 pm LenderFi...from their online tool (no formal LE yet)
2.375% 30 yr, 1 point ($408)
A+B+C = $4659, no lender credit
2.5%, no points
A+B+C = $4251 - $3898 (lender credit) = $353
...
LenderFi is so much stronger than the rest. How quick to close? Good experiences? It seems that they can possibly lower the rate once you get on the phone?
Check out the LenderFi thread for more feedback. From a recent post there:
charis23 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:04 pm Went through another refinance last year with LenderFi to 2.5% on a 30-year. Very painless - it only took 20 days from initial inquiry to loan being funded. Though I think this is the 4th no-cost refinance I've done since 2018 so it's not my first rodeo :wink:

1. 12/9 - initiated
2. 12/10 - locked rate
3. 12/23 - signed closing docs
4. 12/29 - loan funded
dctech
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dctech »

I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 pm I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
Frustrating, but congrats! That’s a phenomenal refi!
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 pm I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
That's a fantastic rate + credits. Did you have a competing offer or haggle hard to get those numbers?
as9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by as9 »

Has anyone refinanced a home equity loan? Is this even a thing (getting conflicting info)?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

as9 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 pm Has anyone refinanced a home equity loan? Is this even a thing (getting conflicting info)?
It essentially is a thing. You just get a new second mortgage to pay off the existing one. The terms you find may not be as favorable as just doing a cash-out refi of your first mortgage though as seconds I don’t think are sold to investors like firsts are, leading to higher pricing.
as9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by as9 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:22 pm
as9 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 pm Has anyone refinanced a home equity loan? Is this even a thing (getting conflicting info)?
It essentially is a thing. You just get a new second mortgage to pay off the existing one. The terms you find may not be as favorable as just doing a cash-out refi of your first mortgage though as seconds I don’t think are sold to investors like firsts are, leading to higher pricing.
So just get a new home equity loan with a better rate and have the original one paid off in the process? One potential issue with that is I assume you then can't deduct the interest payments since the loan isn't being used directly to fund home improvements.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

as9 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:32 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:22 pm
as9 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 pm Has anyone refinanced a home equity loan? Is this even a thing (getting conflicting info)?
It essentially is a thing. You just get a new second mortgage to pay off the existing one. The terms you find may not be as favorable as just doing a cash-out refi of your first mortgage though as seconds I don’t think are sold to investors like firsts are, leading to higher pricing.
So just get a new home equity loan with a better rate and have the original one paid off in the process? One potential issue with that is I assume you then can't deduct the interest payments since the loan isn't being used directly to fund home improvements.
Hopefully someone can chime in on that.I thought if you do a cash-out on the primary to collapse the HEL into it, that portion of the total retains its tax treatment. Would a HEL behave the same way?
dctech
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dctech »

apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:12 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 pm I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
That's a fantastic rate + credits. Did you have a competing offer or haggle hard to get those numbers?
Yes, this was the result of Better and LD going back and forth. Once it funds I'll be supplying the CD and note to Better to get my $100 since they could not match in the last round.
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:50 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:12 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 pm I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
That's a fantastic rate + credits. Did you have a competing offer or haggle hard to get those numbers?
Yes, this was the result of Better and LD going back and forth. Once it funds I'll be supplying the CD and note to Better to get my $100 since they could not match in the last round.
How many times did you go back & forth? And they asked to see each other's updated LE? Did you do it all over the phone or email?

The initial LE I got from Better was total garbage. Still waiting to hear back from LD.
dctech
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dctech »

apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:59 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:50 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:12 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 pm I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
That's a fantastic rate + credits. Did you have a competing offer or haggle hard to get those numbers?
Yes, this was the result of Better and LD going back and forth. Once it funds I'll be supplying the CD and note to Better to get my $100 since they could not match in the last round.
How many times did you go back & forth? And they asked to see each other's updated LE? Did you do it all over the phone or email?

The initial LE I got from Better was total garbage. Still waiting to hear back from LD.
So the full sequence was (all at 2.25% for 30 yr appraisal waived) starting on Nov. 4.

Better from initial application: $2,906 in pts
Better match to Bankrate.com quote: $1,784 in pts
LD Match to Better: $1095 ($1,595 origination - $500 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$235 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better: -$623 ($1,595 origination - $2,218 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$1,953 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better -$2,306 ($1,595 origination - $3,901 lender credit)
Better can't match so I'll get an extra $100 from them

Total swing for the exact same rate/conditions $5,212

Goes to show that there is a lot of spread between the MBS market and the rates the lenders have been sticking to.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:24 pm So the full sequence was (all at 2.25% for 30 yr appraisal waived) starting on Nov. 4.

Better from initial application: $2,906 in pts
Better match to Bankrate.com quote: $1,784 in pts
LD Match to Better: $1095 ($1,595 origination - $500 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$235 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better: -$623 ($1,595 origination - $2,218 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$1,953 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better -$2,306 ($1,595 origination - $3,901 lender credit)
Better can't match so I'll get an extra $100 from them

Total swing for the exact same rate/conditions $5,212

Goes to show that there is a lot of spread between the MBS market and the rates the lenders have been sticking to.
That is amazing. Better usually beats other offers by $100. Above it looks like they were beating LD by $1330 both times.

I assume that Better's costs in B and C were $1230 higher than LD's, so from their perspective, they were beating LD by $100? But then when you went back to LD, they weren't looking at B and C but only at A and lender credit. So they kept improving their offer.

If so, that is a nice way to work the system! Taking advantage of the fact that these two lenders had different perspectives on how they look at price matching.
apres_all_day
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Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:24 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:59 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:50 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:12 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 pm I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
That's a fantastic rate + credits. Did you have a competing offer or haggle hard to get those numbers?
Yes, this was the result of Better and LD going back and forth. Once it funds I'll be supplying the CD and note to Better to get my $100 since they could not match in the last round.
How many times did you go back & forth? And they asked to see each other's updated LE? Did you do it all over the phone or email?

The initial LE I got from Better was total garbage. Still waiting to hear back from LD.
So the full sequence was (all at 2.25% for 30 yr appraisal waived) starting on Nov. 4.

Better from initial application: $2,906 in pts
Better match to Bankrate.com quote: $1,784 in pts
LD Match to Better: $1095 ($1,595 origination - $500 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$235 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better: -$623 ($1,595 origination - $2,218 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$1,953 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better -$2,306 ($1,595 origination - $3,901 lender credit)
Better can't match so I'll get an extra $100 from them

Total swing for the exact same rate/conditions $5,212

Goes to show that there is a lot of spread between the MBS market and the rates the lenders have been sticking to.
Thanks for writing out the details, extremely helpful.

I just got off the phone with LD and got their initial offer. 2.375 30yr, appraisal waived, A+B+C+E offset by lender credits. I’d need to pay my escrow items.

I can go back to Better, I suppose. I’m also now going to submit all my info to LenderFi. It sounds like there’s a lot of room for downward movement.

And I totally agree about the MBS spread! Nuts.
dctech
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dctech »

presto987 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:06 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:24 pm So the full sequence was (all at 2.25% for 30 yr appraisal waived) starting on Nov. 4.

Better from initial application: $2,906 in pts
Better match to Bankrate.com quote: $1,784 in pts
LD Match to Better: $1095 ($1,595 origination - $500 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$235 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better: -$623 ($1,595 origination - $2,218 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$1,953 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better -$2,306 ($1,595 origination - $3,901 lender credit)
Better can't match so I'll get an extra $100 from them

Total swing for the exact same rate/conditions $5,212

Goes to show that there is a lot of spread between the MBS market and the rates the lenders have been sticking to.
That is amazing. Better usually beats other offers by $100. Above it looks like they were beating LD by $1330 both times.

I assume that Better's costs in B and C were $1230 higher than LD's, so from their perspective, they were beating LD by $100? But then when you went back to LD, they weren't looking at B and C but only at A and lender credit. So they kept improving their offer.

If so, that is a nice way to work the system! Taking advantage of the fact that these two lenders had different perspectives on how they look at price matching.
Exactly. And the whole time I knew that I would be using my own title company/Attorney, so they could have put any number they want in C since I wasn’t actually comparing those numbers.

Fun times, probably my last refi on this home, but who knows. Are sub 2.0% 30 yr fixed rates around the corner? If so, I’m in!

PSA for anyone with access to Hyatt Legal/MetLife prepaid legal from your work, I have used it for my title work/attorney in all 3 of my 2020/2021 refis and it has saved me close to $600 each time. So if you have it or can access it, it can be worth it.
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:27 pm
presto987 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:06 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:24 pm So the full sequence was (all at 2.25% for 30 yr appraisal waived) starting on Nov. 4.

Better from initial application: $2,906 in pts
Better match to Bankrate.com quote: $1,784 in pts
LD Match to Better: $1095 ($1,595 origination - $500 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$235 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better: -$623 ($1,595 origination - $2,218 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$1,953 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better -$2,306 ($1,595 origination - $3,901 lender credit)
Better can't match so I'll get an extra $100 from them

Total swing for the exact same rate/conditions $5,212

Goes to show that there is a lot of spread between the MBS market and the rates the lenders have been sticking to.
That is amazing. Better usually beats other offers by $100. Above it looks like they were beating LD by $1330 both times.

I assume that Better's costs in B and C were $1230 higher than LD's, so from their perspective, they were beating LD by $100? But then when you went back to LD, they weren't looking at B and C but only at A and lender credit. So they kept improving their offer.

If so, that is a nice way to work the system! Taking advantage of the fact that these two lenders had different perspectives on how they look at price matching.
Exactly. And the whole time I knew that I would be using my own title company/Attorney, so they could have put any number they want in C since I wasn’t actually comparing those numbers.

Fun times, probably my last refi on this home, but who knows. Are sub 2.0% 30 yr fixed rates around the corner? If so, I’m in!

PSA for anyone with access to Hyatt Legal/MetLife prepaid legal from your work, I have used it for my title work/attorney in all 3 of my 2020/2021 refis and it has saved me close to $600 each time. So if you have it or can access it, it can be worth it.
Hold on, how does this work? You still need to buy title insurance, right? Do you get a separate title quote from Radian?

I have ARAG legal insurance, which is a new benefit at my job that just began on January 1. Exactly which fees are you able to remove?
Indi808
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:28 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Indi808 »

surfstar wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:58 pm (cross posting from the LenderFI thread, b/c I shopped a few lenders yesterday and today)

Still in process, but I believe we're going with Loan Depot.
LenderFI came in great with 2.5%, no cost. Beating Owning.com (2.75% $1200 cost), Interactive Mortgage (2.625% $0), Loan Cabin (2.375% $0 or 2.5% $3800 credit - asking for LE to get LD to match...)

...but...
Loan Depot - 30 yr 2.5% -$2900 credit towards prepaids (their lender credit covers all fees and pays $2900 towards our escrow/prepaids) locked for 60 days.

Loan ~$500k
Value ~$700k (condo, also!)

Appraisal waived by LF and LD. I feel a little bad as we locked with LF, yesterday. I had talked to LD first and they came in with a matched rate and much better lender credit this morning. Hard to ignore almost $3k.
You list an Owning.com offer above with $1200 cost - is the cost prepaids? I just got off the phone with Owning who stated that they do not charge any fees. I just want to be sure I'm not missing anything as I don't want to be surprised down the road if I go with them.
dctech
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 8:22 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dctech »

apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:56 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:27 pm
PSA for anyone with access to Hyatt Legal/MetLife prepaid legal from your work, I have used it for my title work/attorney in all 3 of my 2020/2021 refis and it has saved me close to $600 each time. So if you have it or can access it, it can be worth it.
Hold on, how does this work? You still need to buy title insurance, right? Do you get a separate title quote from Radian?

I have ARAG legal insurance, which is a new benefit at my job that just began on January 1. Exactly which fees are you able to remove?
For me it takes off everything except for Lender's title insurance and the binder fee. So my B+C has been right around of $1000 each time.

Normally under B there are a couple of other items depending on the lender like credit report, flood cert. etc, but that normally is =<$100 all together

I found a local law firm here that specializes in residential real estate and even have a space on their website to enter your Hyatt legal case number. At this point I've completed 6 total transactions (purchase, selling and several refi's) and I highly recommend having your own attorney going through the paperwork vs a Notary who's only job is to verify that its really you signing.
LiveMusic
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LiveMusic »

I had reached out to LF today, and they came back with an LE @ 2% on 15yrs, with an 800$ credit. An hour later, they said it was a mistake, and reissued the LE Where I owe 100$ in closing costs. They also said they don't give extra credits beyond closing costs.

Could that be accurate? I thought the statement that it was a mistake could be genuine, but the statement that they dont give credits beyond closing costs - not to sure about that.
surfstar
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by surfstar »

Indi808 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:36 pm
surfstar wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:58 pm (cross posting from the LenderFI thread, b/c I shopped a few lenders yesterday and today)

Still in process, but I believe we're going with Loan Depot.
LenderFI came in great with 2.5%, no cost. Beating Owning.com (2.75% $1200 cost), Interactive Mortgage (2.625% $0), Loan Cabin (2.375% $0 or 2.5% $3800 credit - asking for LE to get LD to match...)

...but...
Loan Depot - 30 yr 2.5% -$2900 credit towards prepaids (their lender credit covers all fees and pays $2900 towards our escrow/prepaids) locked for 60 days.

Loan ~$500k
Value ~$700k (condo, also!)

Appraisal waived by LF and LD. I feel a little bad as we locked with LF, yesterday. I had talked to LD first and they came in with a matched rate and much better lender credit this morning. Hard to ignore almost $3k.
You list an Owning.com offer above with $1200 cost - is the cost prepaids? I just got off the phone with Owning who stated that they do not charge any fees. I just want to be sure I'm not missing anything as I don't want to be surprised down the road if I go with them.
I didn't pursue an LE with them, so I just have a couple notes from the call. Their loans are paid with points and rolled into the loan, per my notes. The pro with this, is that you can deduct points costs on your taxes. The con is that your loan amount would be higher vs a competitive offer.
I don't have a breakdown of what the $1200 costs were specifically. Too much fast talking for me to listen and write!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

LiveMusic wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:28 pm I had reached out to LF today, and they came back with an LE @ 2% on 15yrs, with an 800$ credit. An hour later, they said it was a mistake, and reissued the LE Where I owe 100$ in closing costs. They also said they don't give extra credits beyond closing costs.

Could that be accurate? I thought the statement that it was a mistake could be genuine, but the statement that they dont give credits beyond closing costs - not to sure about that.
That is indeed LenderFi’s policy. Some other lenders are the same while others, like Loan Depot and Better, will happily give you more than your closing costs.
bogledude23
Posts: 20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bogledude23 »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:24 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:59 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:50 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:12 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 pm I finally closed with LD. There was a nearly 5 week delay as the file was assigned to a Processing "supervisor" instead of an actual processor so it sat in his workflow the whole time without anyone working on it. Anyway after they figured that out it all went pretty quick

Location: NC
Property Value: 680,000
Loan Amount 495,000
2.25% 30 year

A+B+C+E = $2,682.76
Lender Credit = $3,920.96

Net Profit = 1,238.20
That's a fantastic rate + credits. Did you have a competing offer or haggle hard to get those numbers?
Yes, this was the result of Better and LD going back and forth. Once it funds I'll be supplying the CD and note to Better to get my $100 since they could not match in the last round.
How many times did you go back & forth? And they asked to see each other's updated LE? Did you do it all over the phone or email?

The initial LE I got from Better was total garbage. Still waiting to hear back from LD.
So the full sequence was (all at 2.25% for 30 yr appraisal waived) starting on Nov. 4.

Better from initial application: $2,906 in pts
Better match to Bankrate.com quote: $1,784 in pts
LD Match to Better: $1095 ($1,595 origination - $500 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$235 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better: -$623 ($1,595 origination - $2,218 lender credit)
Better Match to LD: -$1,953 in Lender Credits
LD Match to Better -$2,306 ($1,595 origination - $3,901 lender credit)
Better can't match so I'll get an extra $100 from them

Total swing for the exact same rate/conditions $5,212

Goes to show that there is a lot of spread between the MBS market and the rates the lenders have been sticking to.
Curious, when you're getting LD and Better to match, are you dealing with the same loan officer? Are they giving you any pushback? I know Better is more chill regarding getting multiple LEs to match but my experience with LD was like pulling teeth just getting them to beat a competitor's LE once let alone three times. They were so hesitant giving me an LE unless I paid a credit report fee and locked the rate. I remember she specifically pushed back saying that I only wanted the LE to shop it elsewhere and only gave me their "worksheet."

The loan officer I'm working with this 2nd time around doesn't like to communicate with email (I find they intentionally only want to do it over the phone to sell hard and try to get you to lock and pay the fee). I sent him an LE but he hasn't responded. He just calls a few times and leaves voicemails.
DoveBogle
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DoveBogle »

surfstar wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:58 pm (cross posting from the LenderFI thread, b/c I shopped a few lenders yesterday and today)

Still in process, but I believe we're going with Loan Depot.
LenderFI came in great with 2.5%, no cost. Beating Owning.com (2.75% $1200 cost), Interactive Mortgage (2.625% $0), Loan Cabin (2.375% $0 or 2.5% $3800 credit - asking for LE to get LD to match...)

...but...
Loan Depot - 30 yr 2.5% -$2900 credit towards prepaids (their lender credit covers all fees and pays $2900 towards our escrow/prepaids) locked for 60 days.

Loan ~$500k
Value ~$700k (condo, also!)

Appraisal waived by LF and LD. I feel a little bad as we locked with LF, yesterday. I had talked to LD first and they came in with a matched rate and much better lender credit this morning. Hard to ignore almost $3k.
How did LF react when you switched after locking? How do you feel about the decision at this point? I may end up in a similar position and I’m not sure how I’ll proceed.
surfstar
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by surfstar »

DoveBogle wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:05 am
surfstar wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:58 pm (cross posting from the LenderFI thread, b/c I shopped a few lenders yesterday and today)

Still in process, but I believe we're going with Loan Depot.
LenderFI came in great with 2.5%, no cost. Beating Owning.com (2.75% $1200 cost), Interactive Mortgage (2.625% $0), Loan Cabin (2.375% $0 or 2.5% $3800 credit - asking for LE to get LD to match...)

...but...
Loan Depot - 30 yr 2.5% -$2900 credit towards prepaids (their lender credit covers all fees and pays $2900 towards our escrow/prepaids) locked for 60 days.

Loan ~$500k
Value ~$700k (condo, also!)

Appraisal waived by LF and LD. I feel a little bad as we locked with LF, yesterday. I had talked to LD first and they came in with a matched rate and much better lender credit this morning. Hard to ignore almost $3k.
How did LF react when you switched after locking? How do you feel about the decision at this point? I may end up in a similar position and I’m not sure how I’ll proceed.
The LO wasn't happy, but it was all within a 24 hour period. I didn't string them along, and I had initially been contacted by LD first, so I didn't feel bad about it. I'm sure it happens often and much later in the process, and just remember when the LO acts "hurt" - that's their salesmanship coming through. If it was a real issue, I'm sure lenders would make you sign a contract and have financial recourse. They [LF] also didn't try to match the offer.
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