Refinance Mega Thread

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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

FiscallyResponsible wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:01 am
Soares1234 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:48 am
FiscallyResponsible wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:22 am Moving right along with my refi from Better.com. 2.625% for a 30 year fixed on no cost refi. I first inquired about 12 days ago and we have approval now and are moving towards coordinating on closing. I have been pretty good about uploading everything needed same day things were requested.

My loan amount is ~$410k on a $700k home. My lender credit drops from about $2300 to $1000 if I roll in my prepaids into the loan. Paying an extra $1300 to increase my loan about $6-7k seems ridiculous. Am I wrong? I don't remember seeing this in previous refis with other lenders. I'm not going to complain though, seeing as I am getting a pretty great rate + AMEX credit.

Thanks!

You would be paying those prepaids anyways right. Except now you are rolling them into the loan. Taking a month or so off from the initial mortgage payments but paying interest on that amount for the term of the loan.
I expected to see my loan amount go up reflecting that I would be paying for it over the course of the loan. I didn't think the lender credit offsetting non-prepaid loan costs would go down. I am getting a double whammy of sorts.
Sounds like rolling in costs to your loan would reduce the lender credits. If so, I would not roll in the costs into the loan, not worth it if you lose lenders credits.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

thrillhou wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:06 am What differences in loan offers might there be if not all personal assets' statements are provided (or told) to the LO? Put another way, can anyone comment on how assets -- independent of income -- change the refi offer?
I never show all of mine. I chase account bonuses so have too many accounts in multiple places. I was told by one LO that assets only matter to show you can cover any out of pocket costs needed at close. So it's minimal or no impact on the refi offer. Debt to income and loan to value are far more important.
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:58 am
thrillhou wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:06 am What differences in loan offers might there be if not all personal assets' statements are provided (or told) to the LO? Put another way, can anyone comment on how assets -- independent of income -- change the refi offer?
I never show all of mine. I chase account bonuses so have too many accounts in multiple places. I was told by one LO that assets only matter to show you can cover any out of pocket costs needed at close. So it's minimal or no impact on the refi offer. Debt to income and loan to value are far more important.
+1

Except I only learned this lesson after I painstakenly submitted all my documents to every single financial account. Even had to go back and forth for some new accounts that I didn't have 2 months of statements for. All to find out that none of it mattered, it didn't affect my rates and they didn't even need it because I was getting a check at closing...
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

Outer Marker wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:26 am
omega wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:17 pm Thanks all for the wealth of information here.

I finally decided to do the refinance today.

Current scenario:

Primary residence in NJ, 400K remaining of 630K home, 3.625% rate for 30 years.

I applied to better.com and got the following offer

2.5% rate for 15 years with 2980 (points) and 2926 (third party fees), appraisal fee waived and 2500 Amex credit.

Is it a good offer?

I am also going to check Lenderfi and LoanDepot. Any other places I should check?

Thank you!
That does not sound particularly good in today's market. Check with Amerisave. Working on closing a 15 year at 2.625, 0 points, $ -5,900 lender credit at settlement.
What state?
Outer Marker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Outer Marker »

bws wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:40 am
Outer Marker wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:26 am
That does not sound particularly good in today's market. Check with Amerisave. Working on closing a 15 year at 2.625, 0 points, $ -5,900 lender credit at settlement.
What state?
They are a nation wide lender.
iridum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum »

Anyone get 2.625% and below rates for 30 yr fixed refi with no cost?
tuck3979
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tuck3979 »

iridum wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:22 am Anyone get 2.625% and below rates for 30 yr fixed refi with no cost?
I've seen a couple success stories on Slickdeals, but very few. LenderFi was doing some at this rate for the perfect scenarios. I was quoted a no-cost 2.625% from them but ended up with Better and closed a 2.75% with $4k credit and $2500 AMEX. Honestly you're probably better off taking a 2.75% and maximizing credits which are more widely available at that rate. The 1/8 difference is fairly minimal over the life of a loan, especially when you factor in the ability to secure thousands of additional up-front credit on a 2.75%. The break-even alone would take years when you're probably gonna save $20/month depending on your loan size.
iridum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum »

tuck3979 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:39 am
iridum wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:22 am Anyone get 2.625% and below rates for 30 yr fixed refi with no cost?
I've seen a couple success stories on Slickdeals, but very few. LenderFi was doing some at this rate for the perfect scenarios. I was quoted a no-cost 2.625% from them but ended up with Better and closed a 2.75% with $4k credit and $2500 AMEX. Honestly you're probably better off taking a 2.75% and maximizing credits which are more widely available at that rate. The 1/8 difference is fairly minimal over the life of a loan, especially when you factor in the ability to secure thousands of additional up-front credit on a 2.75%. The break-even alone would take years when you're probably gonna save $20/month depending on your loan size.
i already closed on 2.875% with better.com 10 days back. Got a good credit from them and will hopefully see the $2500 in a few months. Wanted to do another refi if it was saving me another .25% with no cost. Will still keep looking.
jysharma
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jysharma »

Closed on Friday and disbursed today.

State: Northern CA
Loan Size: Paid off a good amount to be just below conforming.
Term: 15 year
Rate: 2.5% no cost.
Lender credits adds to ~3600$ and covers all loan origination & title costs except prepaids.
Rate locked on June 1st.
Originator: rate.com

It took a few emails back and forth but totally worth it for the savings.
Going from a 30 year to a 15 year is huge from a interest savings point of view.
With the current low yield on Bonds, paying off the mortgage produces higher returns.

Thank you all for the helpful advise and guidance in this thread.
Buddy0329
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Buddy0329 »

Anyone seeing better terms than 2.375% at par for a 10 year fixed?
tuck3979
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tuck3979 »

As someone who used to trade MBS, this article http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... 49814.aspx is amazingly good at breaking down the trade on your loans. Most of you already understand that the companies you're working with (Better, LenderFi, etc.) are simply selling your loans. Everyone has to make money somehow and the article talks about whose taking what part of the spread. So here's the real question - how low can 30year rates go???

Well most companies are selling into the 2.5 MBS Coupon, so that is why you are seeing so much resistance to going below 2.75% 30year rates (the article explains that). A few companies are selling into the newly launched 2.0 MBS coupon (Loan Cabin quoted me 2.5% no points/origination) but volume is low still and investor appetite hasn't shifted to that coupon yet. So any companies quoting you under 2.75% are rarely giving good credits (probably charging you points) and aren't making as much on the loan at this point in time. However... as COVID goes on, rates will continue to drop (expect continued bad COVID news through year-end, alongside election uncertainty in the fall). This will shift the 30year to the 2.0 MBS coupon as the primary investment vehicle, which some of my friends still trading say is inevitable and this in turn will facilitate more 2.25% - 2.5% 30year rates with credits, the same way you are seeing that in the 2.75% - 3% range today.

My advice, maximize credit and get a 2.75% or 2.875% 30year today. Expect to Refi in the next 6 months again. DO NO PAY FOR A REFI, your credits (J) should offset or beat your A+B+C, go up the scale if you have to. Perhaps you're profile isn't ideal so you can't get 2.75%, then take 3.0% for now. Mark my words, these are not the lowest 30year rates you will ever see, in fact you will see better rates before the end of 2020. Which means each of you will benefit, even if you stuck taking a no-cost 3%+ deal right now.

**none of this applies to non-ideal loans, so I'm sorry to those of you with bad credit, poor LTV, small loan sizes (under $300k), Jumbo's, cash-out refi's, investment properties, second-homes, the list goes on...**
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

Has anyone gone past their rate lock timeframe with Better? Mine is about to expire (because the subordination on the HELOC is taking forever). Trying to determine what might happen and Better is very slow with communication.
keystone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by keystone »

I currently have ~23 years left on a 30 yr FRM at 3.25%. I am open to refinancing to a 15 year if I can get a rate under 2.5% with minimal points.

Today I put in an application at Better and was offered 2.5% with about a 1/3rd point and 2.375% with close to 1 pt. Not quite good enough for me.

Does anyone have suggestions on where else I should look? Unfortunately Lenderfi is not an option as they are no longer accepting new mortgage applications.
Brain
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

In reply to some folks asking about the Better/Amex deal:

I applied to Better prior to having an Amex card. I applied for the Cash Magnet card (1.5% universal cask back) subsequently. I mentioned this to the processor and she just asked me to send her the card number once I got it.

Better asked me about all the other credit pulls on my report, whether they were for mortgage shopping, but didn't ask about the Amex pull.

Upon reading about the "link" from Amex to apply, I visited it and clicked it, but it simply said my request was submitted, nothing terribly informative.

A couple of days after closing, I got the same email multiple people have mentioned, "Congratulations on funding your loan, Brain! You can expect your American Express® statement credit to be applied to your account within 8-12 weeks."

I've checked the Better site daily since closing and today there was the task others have mentioned, asking me to input the last five digits of my card number.

I did happen to use the same email address for both Better and Amex, but I only really use the one email account, so that wasn't hard to coordinate.

Since I just got the card, I've only racked up a couple of hundred dollars on it. Since it's "only" 1.5% cash back, I'm only using it where better cash back bonuses wouldn't apply.

I'm pleased to hear reports that the credit will be applied even to low-balance cards.

I'll comment again when I see the credit.
ensign_lee
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

tuck3979 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:01 am As someone who used to trade MBS, this article http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... 49814.aspx is amazingly good at breaking down the trade on your loans. Most of you already understand that the companies you're working with (Better, LenderFi, etc.) are simply selling your loans. Everyone has to make money somehow and the article talks about whose taking what part of the spread. So here's the real question - how low can 30year rates go???

Well most companies are selling into the 2.5 MBS Coupon, so that is why you are seeing so much resistance to going below 2.75% 30year rates (the article explains that). A few companies are selling into the newly launched 2.0 MBS coupon (Loan Cabin quoted me 2.5% no points/origination) but volume is low still and investor appetite hasn't shifted to that coupon yet. So any companies quoting you under 2.75% are rarely giving good credits (probably charging you points) and aren't making as much on the loan at this point in time. However... as COVID goes on, rates will continue to drop (expect continued bad COVID news through year-end, alongside election uncertainty in the fall). This will shift the 30year to the 2.0 MBS coupon as the primary investment vehicle, which some of my friends still trading say is inevitable and this in turn will facilitate more 2.25% - 2.5% 30year rates with credits, the same way you are seeing that in the 2.75% - 3% range today.

My advice, maximize credit and get a 2.75% or 2.875% 30year today. Expect to Refi in the next 6 months again. DO NO PAY FOR A REFI, your credits (J) should offset or beat your A+B+C, go up the scale if you have to. Perhaps you're profile isn't ideal so you can't get 2.75%, then take 3.0% for now. Mark my words, these are not the lowest 30year rates you will ever see, in fact you will see better rates before the end of 2020. Which means each of you will benefit, even if you stuck taking a no-cost 3%+ deal right now.

**none of this applies to non-ideal loans, so I'm sorry to those of you with bad credit, poor LTV, small loan sizes (under $300k), Jumbo's, cash-out refi's, investment properties, second-homes, the list goes on...**
That was a really good article, thank you.
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ray.james
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ray.james »

tuck3979 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:01 am As someone who used to trade MBS, this article http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... 49814.aspx is amazingly good at breaking down the trade on your loans. Most of you already understand that the companies you're working with (Better, LenderFi, etc.) are simply selling your loans. Everyone has to make money somehow and the article talks about whose taking what part of the spread. So here's the real question - how low can 30year rates go???

Well most companies are selling into the 2.5 MBS Coupon, so that is why you are seeing so much resistance to going below 2.75% 30year rates (the article explains that). A few companies are selling into the newly launched 2.0 MBS coupon (Loan Cabin quoted me 2.5% no points/origination) but volume is low still and investor appetite hasn't shifted to that coupon yet. So any companies quoting you under 2.75% are rarely giving good credits (probably charging you points) and aren't making as much on the loan at this point in time. However... as COVID goes on, rates will continue to drop (expect continued bad COVID news through year-end, alongside election uncertainty in the fall). This will shift the 30year to the 2.0 MBS coupon as the primary investment vehicle, which some of my friends still trading say is inevitable and this in turn will facilitate more 2.25% - 2.5% 30year rates with credits, the same way you are seeing that in the 2.75% - 3% range today.

My advice, maximize credit and get a 2.75% or 2.875% 30year today. Expect to Refi in the next 6 months again. DO NO PAY FOR A REFI, your credits (J) should offset or beat your A+B+C, go up the scale if you have to. Perhaps you're profile isn't ideal so you can't get 2.75%, then take 3.0% for now. Mark my words, these are not the lowest 30year rates you will ever see, in fact you will see better rates before the end of 2020. Which means each of you will benefit, even if you stuck taking a no-cost 3%+ deal right now.

**none of this applies to non-ideal loans, so I'm sorry to those of you with bad credit, poor LTV, small loan sizes (under $300k), Jumbo's, cash-out refi's, investment properties, second-homes, the list goes on...**
Good post & article. Did not know about a lot of these clogs. One thing I never understood, if conventional/jumbo are purchased by investors, why are jumbos so different. Is government really backing the conventional or just that standards are higher?
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939
DrGrnTum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DrGrnTum »

Brain wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:13 am In reply to some folks asking about the Better/Amex deal:

I applied to Better prior to having an Amex card. I applied for the Cash Magnet card (1.5% universal cask back) subsequently. I mentioned this to the processor and she just asked me to send her the card number once I got it.

Better asked me about all the other credit pulls on my report, whether they were for mortgage shopping, but didn't ask about the Amex pull.

Upon reading about the "link" from Amex to apply, I visited it and clicked it, but it simply said my request was submitted, nothing terribly informative.

A couple of days after closing, I got the same email multiple people have mentioned, "Congratulations on funding your loan, Brain! You can expect your American Express® statement credit to be applied to your account within 8-12 weeks."

I've checked the Better site daily since closing and today there was the task others have mentioned, asking me to input the last five digits of my card number.

I did happen to use the same email address for both Better and Amex, but I only really use the one email account, so that wasn't hard to coordinate.

Since I just got the card, I've only racked up a couple of hundred dollars on it. Since it's "only" 1.5% cash back, I'm only using it where better cash back bonuses wouldn't apply.

I'm pleased to hear reports that the credit will be applied even to low-balance cards.

I'll comment again when I see the credit.
Thank you. This was a good detail report on how you applied with Better and the $2,500 bonus.
I just closed this last Wednesday.
We already had an Amex card and I used the Better Amex link when I applied for the loan.
I'll report back as soon as I get the credit.
ymmt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

ray.james wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:55 am Good post & article. Did not know about a lot of these clogs. One thing I never understood, if conventional/jumbo are purchased by investors, why are jumbos so different. Is government really backing the conventional or just that standards are higher?
Quite simply, Fannie and Freddie do not buy jumbo loans, and when these conventional loans are repackaged into securities to sell to investors, there's an implicit guarantee that Fannie/Freddie MBS is backed by the US Govt.

Jumbos, or other special loans, are either sold to special investors or held in the bank's balance sheets. This means there's a much smaller investor base and the idiosyncratic risks are much higher. Until recently, banks have been pretty willing to use their balance sheet to finance jumbos, but with COVID they have been more concerned with keeping liquidity readily available.
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoosier CPA »

Has anyone locked in with Better and then found a better deal and tried to get them to improve their offer?

I heard of better while I had a refi in motion with my existing lender (3.0% for 20 years, virtually no cost). Better beat that by offering the same terms but with $1000 back and the amex credit. I completed the refi with my existing lender since I was suspicious of the deal from Better - seemed too good to be true. I locked in with them to avoid losing the offer but still closed with my existing lender a few days after that. Anyway, reading on here it seems better is legitimate. On Friday I got a quote from LenderFi for 2.875% for 30 years and about $200 of costs, so I sent that to Better. They wrote back that they would consider it and get back to me - curious what they are going to do. Just wondering if anyone else has done this. I figured I'd stay with my local lender but it seems nuts to pass up the Amex credit.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:07 pm Has anyone locked in with Better and then found a better deal and tried to get them to improve their offer?

I heard of better while I had a refi in motion with my existing lender (3.0% for 20 years, virtually no cost). Better beat that by offering the same terms but with $1000 back and the amex credit. I completed the refi with my existing lender since I was suspicious of the deal from Better - seemed too good to be true. I locked in with them to avoid losing the offer but still closed with my existing lender a few days after that. Anyway, reading on here it seems better is legitimate. On Friday I got a quote from LenderFi for 2.875% for 30 years and about $200 of costs, so I sent that to Better. They wrote back that they would consider it and get back to me - curious what they are going to do. Just wondering if anyone else has done this. I figured I'd stay with my local lender but it seems nuts to pass up the Amex credit.
What is the loan size? The Better matching policy is for $500k max. I just had them reject an offer due to that so I am going with LoanDepot.
dsmil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dsmil »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:07 pm Has anyone locked in with Better and then found a better deal and tried to get them to improve their offer?

I heard of better while I had a refi in motion with my existing lender (3.0% for 20 years, virtually no cost). Better beat that by offering the same terms but with $1000 back and the amex credit. I completed the refi with my existing lender since I was suspicious of the deal from Better - seemed too good to be true. I locked in with them to avoid losing the offer but still closed with my existing lender a few days after that. Anyway, reading on here it seems better is legitimate. On Friday I got a quote from LenderFi for 2.875% for 30 years and about $200 of costs, so I sent that to Better. They wrote back that they would consider it and get back to me - curious what they are going to do. Just wondering if anyone else has done this. I figured I'd stay with my local lender but it seems nuts to pass up the Amex credit.
Yes, I had Better match a competing offer after locking but that doesn't seem to always be the case.
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoosier CPA »

pianos101 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:10 pm
Hoosier CPA wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:07 pm Has anyone locked in with Better and then found a better deal and tried to get them to improve their offer?

I heard of better while I had a refi in motion with my existing lender (3.0% for 20 years, virtually no cost). Better beat that by offering the same terms but with $1000 back and the amex credit. I completed the refi with my existing lender since I was suspicious of the deal from Better - seemed too good to be true. I locked in with them to avoid losing the offer but still closed with my existing lender a few days after that. Anyway, reading on here it seems better is legitimate. On Friday I got a quote from LenderFi for 2.875% for 30 years and about $200 of costs, so I sent that to Better. They wrote back that they would consider it and get back to me - curious what they are going to do. Just wondering if anyone else has done this. I figured I'd stay with my local lender but it seems nuts to pass up the Amex credit.
What is the loan size? The Better matching policy is for $500k max. I just had them reject an offer due to that so I am going with LoanDepot.
About $215K on a $400K house.
BHLearner2020
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BHLearner2020 »

tuck3979 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:01 am As someone who used to trade MBS, this article http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... 49814.aspx is amazingly good at breaking down the trade on your loans. Most of you already understand that the companies you're working with (Better, LenderFi, etc.) are simply selling your loans. Everyone has to make money somehow and the article talks about whose taking what part of the spread. So here's the real question - how low can 30year rates go???

Well most companies are selling into the 2.5 MBS Coupon, so that is why you are seeing so much resistance to going below 2.75% 30year rates (the article explains that). A few companies are selling into the newly launched 2.0 MBS coupon (Loan Cabin quoted me 2.5% no points/origination) but volume is low still and investor appetite hasn't shifted to that coupon yet. So any companies quoting you under 2.75% are rarely giving good credits (probably charging you points) and aren't making as much on the loan at this point in time. However... as COVID goes on, rates will continue to drop (expect continued bad COVID news through year-end, alongside election uncertainty in the fall). This will shift the 30year to the 2.0 MBS coupon as the primary investment vehicle, which some of my friends still trading say is inevitable and this in turn will facilitate more 2.25% - 2.5% 30year rates with credits, the same way you are seeing that in the 2.75% - 3% range today.

My advice, maximize credit and get a 2.75% or 2.875% 30year today. Expect to Refi in the next 6 months again. DO NO PAY FOR A REFI, your credits (J) should offset or beat your A+B+C, go up the scale if you have to. Perhaps you're profile isn't ideal so you can't get 2.75%, then take 3.0% for now. Mark my words, these are not the lowest 30year rates you will ever see, in fact you will see better rates before the end of 2020. Which means each of you will benefit, even if you stuck taking a no-cost 3%+ deal right now.

**none of this applies to non-ideal loans, so I'm sorry to those of you with bad credit, poor LTV, small loan sizes (under $300k), Jumbo's, cash-out refi's, investment properties, second-homes, the list goes on...**
Thank you for nice explanation.
Kix
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Kix »

Brain wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:13 am In reply to some folks asking about the Better/Amex deal:

I applied to Better prior to having an Amex card. I applied for the Cash Magnet card (1.5% universal cask back) subsequently. I mentioned this to the processor and she just asked me to send her the card number once I got it.

Better asked me about all the other credit pulls on my report, whether they were for mortgage shopping, but didn't ask about the Amex pull.

Upon reading about the "link" from Amex to apply, I visited it and clicked it, but it simply said my request was submitted, nothing terribly informative.

A couple of days after closing, I got the same email multiple people have mentioned, "Congratulations on funding your loan, Brain! You can expect your American Express® statement credit to be applied to your account within 8-12 weeks."

I've checked the Better site daily since closing and today there was the task others have mentioned, asking me to input the last five digits of my card number.

I did happen to use the same email address for both Better and Amex, but I only really use the one email account, so that wasn't hard to coordinate.

Since I just got the card, I've only racked up a couple of hundred dollars on it. Since it's "only" 1.5% cash back, I'm only using it where better cash back bonuses wouldn't apply.

I'm pleased to hear reports that the credit will be applied even to low-balance cards.

I'll comment again when I see the credit.
Does the email have to match? Mine does not, and it might be tricky to change it, because I have another better.com account with the email that I use for my credit card.
iridum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum »

pianos101 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:10 pm
Hoosier CPA wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:07 pm Has anyone locked in with Better and then found a better deal and tried to get them to improve their offer?

I heard of better while I had a refi in motion with my existing lender (3.0% for 20 years, virtually no cost). Better beat that by offering the same terms but with $1000 back and the amex credit. I completed the refi with my existing lender since I was suspicious of the deal from Better - seemed too good to be true. I locked in with them to avoid losing the offer but still closed with my existing lender a few days after that. Anyway, reading on here it seems better is legitimate. On Friday I got a quote from LenderFi for 2.875% for 30 years and about $200 of costs, so I sent that to Better. They wrote back that they would consider it and get back to me - curious what they are going to do. Just wondering if anyone else has done this. I figured I'd stay with my local lender but it seems nuts to pass up the Amex credit.
What is the loan size? The Better matching policy is for $500k max. I just had them reject an offer due to that so I am going with LoanDepot.
Not sure if its case to case basis, but I was matched for high balance conforming loan of 765k.
SenatorSquires
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SenatorSquires »

Outer Marker wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:26 am
omega wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:17 pm Thanks all for the wealth of information here.

I finally decided to do the refinance today.

Current scenario:

Primary residence in NJ, 400K remaining of 630K home, 3.625% rate for 30 years.

I applied to better.com and got the following offer

2.5% rate for 15 years with 2980 (points) and 2926 (third party fees), appraisal fee waived and 2500 Amex credit.

Is it a good offer?

I am also going to check Lenderfi and LoanDepot. Any other places I should check?

Thank you!
That does not sound particularly good in today's market. Check with Amerisave. Working on closing a 15 year at 2.625, 0 points, $ -5,900 lender credit at settlement.
Did Amerisave ask you to pay the application fee and wait for underwriting before locking in the rate? I tried locking with them last week but mentioned this so I reconsidered. They were my best offer vs. local credit union, wells fargo (current holder), local mortgage broker. Going back for round 2 of shopping this week so i'm looking for more lenders. Better.com isn't in my state, LenderFi seems to not be taking any more applications so i'm looking at Aimloan and Credible.
mets914
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mets914 »

pianos101 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:09 pm
mets914 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:43 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:37 pm
mets914 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:32 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:55 pm

Any reason not to?
So, I just locked in 2.625 from LenderFi and I would have 200 out of pocket which I may be able to get down by shopping for title insurance. I feel somewhat sketchy to have two locked in rates. It would take about 44 months to make up for the lender credit from LD with the lower rate from LenderFi. I guess I'll see if Loan Depot will lower their tomorrow. Then I have to tell one of them (likely Loan Depot) that i'm out. How does one get out of an intent to proceed?
That's a good plan. If Loan Depot doesn't sweeten the pot on your existing application with them, you simply tell them "please withdraw my application". An email is sufficient. Technically, you could just tell them nothing, but I personally wouldn't. No sense in burning the bridge by making them do unpaid work when you know you won't use them.
Thanks!
Let us know what LD says. I got LD to match my LenderFi offer (20 year, 2.75%, net zero cost) but they added an extra $1800 lender credit so now I am going with them until something better comes along.
Just got off the phone with Loan Depot. They said that they could not do anything so I will be cancelling with them and going with LenderFi. Actually a tough call as I could have taken the lender credit and refinanced again sooner but I will be happy with a 25 year loan for 2.625% with nothing out of pocket.

EDIT: Where in the LenderFi paperwork is the 6 month clawback noted? I can't find it. They guy said no refinances for six months while I was on the phone with him but I can't see anything in writing.
Last edited by mets914 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brain
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Kix wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:44 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:13 am In reply to some folks asking about the Better/Amex deal:

I applied to Better prior to having an Amex card. I applied for the Cash Magnet card (1.5% universal cask back) subsequently. I mentioned this to the processor and she just asked me to send her the card number once I got it.

Better asked me about all the other credit pulls on my report, whether they were for mortgage shopping, but didn't ask about the Amex pull.

Upon reading about the "link" from Amex to apply, I visited it and clicked it, but it simply said my request was submitted, nothing terribly informative.

A couple of days after closing, I got the same email multiple people have mentioned, "Congratulations on funding your loan, Brain! You can expect your American Express® statement credit to be applied to your account within 8-12 weeks."

I've checked the Better site daily since closing and today there was the task others have mentioned, asking me to input the last five digits of my card number.

I did happen to use the same email address for both Better and Amex, but I only really use the one email account, so that wasn't hard to coordinate.

Since I just got the card, I've only racked up a couple of hundred dollars on it. Since it's "only" 1.5% cash back, I'm only using it where better cash back bonuses wouldn't apply.

I'm pleased to hear reports that the credit will be applied even to low-balance cards.

I'll comment again when I see the credit.
Does the email have to match? Mine does not, and it might be tricky to change it, because I have another better.com account with the email that I use for my credit card.
There are multiple posts pointing out that that seems to be one of the few requirements. It is possible to change your email address with Better, unless you're like me and used your Google account to authenticate.
MBJ0909
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MBJ0909 »

mets914 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:00 pm
EDIT: Where in the LenderFi paperwork is the 6 month clawback noted? I can't find it. They guy said no refinances for six months while I was on the phone with him but I can't see anything in writing.
It was in the initial set of disclosures.

Intent to Retain Mortgage
No Sales Clause (180 days)

I/We are aware that by signing this form, I/We are acknowledging that we have been
completely forthright and upfront regarding my/our current intentions. I/We are acknowledging
by signing this form that we have no intent to sell and/or refinance our property within the next
6 months (180 days).
I/We fully understand that any false or misleading statements on my/our parts could be
construed as misrepresentation of my/our true intent and could therefore be considered
mortgage fraud. I/We are aware that mortgage fraud is punishable by the FBI with possible jail
time and/or monetary penalties.
I/We are aware that if we refinance or sell our home in the next 6 months (180 days), that we
may be held responsible for paying back any credit given to us by LenderFi, Inc. during the
course of this transaction.
I/We are aware that after 6 months (or 180 days) of on time payments, I/we may be eligible to
participate in LenderFi, Inc’s Rate Insurance program.
mets914
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mets914 »

MBJ0909 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:19 pm
mets914 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:00 pm
EDIT: Where in the LenderFi paperwork is the 6 month clawback noted? I can't find it. They guy said no refinances for six months while I was on the phone with him but I can't see anything in writing.
It was in the initial set of disclosures.

Intent to Retain Mortgage
No Sales Clause (180 days)

I/We are aware that by signing this form, I/We are acknowledging that we have been
completely forthright and upfront regarding my/our current intentions. I/We are acknowledging
by signing this form that we have no intent to sell and/or refinance our property within the next
6 months (180 days).
I/We fully understand that any false or misleading statements on my/our parts could be
construed as misrepresentation of my/our true intent and could therefore be considered
mortgage fraud. I/We are aware that mortgage fraud is punishable by the FBI with possible jail
time and/or monetary penalties.
I/We are aware that if we refinance or sell our home in the next 6 months (180 days), that we
may be held responsible for paying back any credit given to us by LenderFi, Inc. during the
course of this transaction.
I/We are aware that after 6 months (or 180 days) of on time payments, I/we may be eligible to
participate in LenderFi, Inc’s Rate Insurance program.
Weird. I don't see it in the list of all my disclosures. Although I do remember seeing something like that at some point. I only see this list:
Loan Estimate (Alternate)
1003 - URLA
Borrower's Certification & Authorization
Credit Score Disclosure
Notice of Right to Receive Copy of Written Appraisal/Valuation
Hazard Insurance Authorization, Requirements and Disclosure
Notice of Furnishing Negative Information
Mortgage Fraud is Investigated by the FBI
Fair Credit Reporting Act
Equal Credit Opportunity Act Notice
USA Patriot Act Information Disclosure
Borrower Consent to the Use of Tax Return Information
IL Addendum to Residential Mortgage Loan Application
2015 Settlement Service Provider List
Credit Score Disclosure, 2
Acknowledgement of Receipt of Loan Estimate
Acknowledgement of Intent to Proceed
IL Description of Required Exhibits and Documentation
IL Borrower Information Document
IL Rate Lock Fee Agreement
IL Right to Choose Title Insurance
IL Signed Documents Disclosure
Appraisal Authorization Form
Borrower's Authorization - Amrock
Homeownership Counseling Organization List
IRS 4506T - Request for Transcript of Tax Return
Undisclosed Debt
raylet
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by raylet »

mets914 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:44 pm
MBJ0909 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:19 pm
mets914 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:00 pm
EDIT: Where in the LenderFi paperwork is the 6 month clawback noted? I can't find it. They guy said no refinances for six months while I was on the phone with him but I can't see anything in writing.
It was in the initial set of disclosures.

Intent to Retain Mortgage
No Sales Clause (180 days)

I/We are aware that by signing this form, I/We are acknowledging that we have been
completely forthright and upfront regarding my/our current intentions. I/We are acknowledging
by signing this form that we have no intent to sell and/or refinance our property within the next
6 months (180 days).
I/We fully understand that any false or misleading statements on my/our parts could be
construed as misrepresentation of my/our true intent and could therefore be considered
mortgage fraud. I/We are aware that mortgage fraud is punishable by the FBI with possible jail
time and/or monetary penalties.
I/We are aware that if we refinance or sell our home in the next 6 months (180 days), that we
may be held responsible for paying back any credit given to us by LenderFi, Inc. during the
course of this transaction.
I/We are aware that after 6 months (or 180 days) of on time payments, I/we may be eligible to
participate in LenderFi, Inc’s Rate Insurance program.
Weird. I don't see it in the list of all my disclosures. Although I do remember seeing something like that at some point. I only see this list:
Loan Estimate (Alternate)
1003 - URLA
Borrower's Certification & Authorization
Credit Score Disclosure
Notice of Right to Receive Copy of Written Appraisal/Valuation
Hazard Insurance Authorization, Requirements and Disclosure
Notice of Furnishing Negative Information
Mortgage Fraud is Investigated by the FBI
Fair Credit Reporting Act
Equal Credit Opportunity Act Notice
USA Patriot Act Information Disclosure
Borrower Consent to the Use of Tax Return Information
IL Addendum to Residential Mortgage Loan Application
2015 Settlement Service Provider List
Credit Score Disclosure, 2
Acknowledgement of Receipt of Loan Estimate
Acknowledgement of Intent to Proceed
IL Description of Required Exhibits and Documentation
IL Borrower Information Document
IL Rate Lock Fee Agreement
IL Right to Choose Title Insurance
IL Signed Documents Disclosure
Appraisal Authorization Form
Borrower's Authorization - Amrock
Homeownership Counseling Organization List
IRS 4506T - Request for Transcript of Tax Return
Undisclosed Debt
Same here, I also don’t see this 180 days clause.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

nic3456 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:25 am Has anyone gone past their rate lock timeframe with Better? Mine is about to expire (because the subordination on the HELOC is taking forever). Trying to determine what might happen and Better is very slow with communication.
This happened to me. You need to make sure Better does a rusb order with Wells and I also called Wells to push it. Ultimately Better ended up extending the lock, but definitely discuss it with your processor.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mets914 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:44 pm
MBJ0909 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:19 pm
mets914 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:00 pm
EDIT: Where in the LenderFi paperwork is the 6 month clawback noted? I can't find it. They guy said no refinances for six months while I was on the phone with him but I can't see anything in writing.
It was in the initial set of disclosures.

Intent to Retain Mortgage
No Sales Clause (180 days)

I/We are aware that by signing this form, I/We are acknowledging that we have been
completely forthright and upfront regarding my/our current intentions. I/We are acknowledging
by signing this form that we have no intent to sell and/or refinance our property within the next
6 months (180 days).
I/We fully understand that any false or misleading statements on my/our parts could be
construed as misrepresentation of my/our true intent and could therefore be considered
mortgage fraud. I/We are aware that mortgage fraud is punishable by the FBI with possible jail
time and/or monetary penalties.
I/We are aware that if we refinance or sell our home in the next 6 months (180 days), that we
may be held responsible for paying back any credit given to us by LenderFi, Inc. during the
course of this transaction.
I/We are aware that after 6 months (or 180 days) of on time payments, I/we may be eligible to
participate in LenderFi, Inc’s Rate Insurance program.
Weird. I don't see it in the list of all my disclosures. Although I do remember seeing something like that at some point.
MBJ may be referring to the Initial Closing Disclosures, not the initial application disclosures. Either way, it should definitely be in your closing packet.
Agent9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Agent9 »

How do you calculate the break even on a refi before reaching the break even on the original loan? Do you add the new break even to the old break even? Example: If I took out a 30 year fixed in 2017 with a break even of 5 years and am considering a refi now with a break even of 3 years do I add the 3 years to the 2 years remaining on the original loan to get a new break even of 5 years?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Agent9 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:52 pm How do you calculate the break even on a refi before reaching the break even on the original loan? Do you add the new break even to the old break even? Example: If I took out a 30 year fixed in 2017 with a break even of 5 years and am considering a refi now with a break even of 3 years do I add the 3 years to the 2 years remaining on the original loan to get a new break even of 5 years?
I would actually counter that with asking why do you care? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
neo
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Refinance Mega Thread

Post by neo »

Im trying to refinance my mortgage. Any implications if I apply for multiple mortgage brokers and have the credit check done?
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

Anyone get so far as to lock a rate with one lender, get to the beginning of underwriting and then withdraw because of a better offer (that the first company was shown and given the opportunity to match)?

I just withdrew an application and was told that I don't have integrity for telling the first LO that I was ready to forward (I was at the time...). I mean I feel bad playing the game and pulling out after rate locking, but isn't that how the business is set up?
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

neo wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:20 pm Im trying to refinance my mortgage. Any implications if I apply for multiple mortgage brokers and have the credit check done?
No. Multiple hard pulls in the same time period (about 30 days?) are all counted as one. If you are ready now, apply to as many as you want/can within a week or so to be safe.
grp2c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by grp2c »

pianos101 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:22 pm I mean I feel bad playing the game and pulling out after rate locking, but isn't that how the business is set up?
Don't feel bad. I'm over this whole industry. I'm sitting at 130 days after locking with citi in march. They keep extending my lock but they can't get their act together to get the refi through underwriting. Loan officer doesn't respond to my emails at this point. Just has his assistant email me every few weeks asking for updated paystubs. I started shopping rates again.
Wildcat23
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Wildcat23 »

Big thanks for the heads up on these low refi rates

Looking for refi current house - owe 490k, LTE about 70%, 4 yrs into a 30 yr at 3.625,I wanted to look at 15 and 20 yr options.

I was initially excited about the AMEX offer at Better - the rates were ok but Lenderfi blew them out of the water.

We ended up going with a 15yr at 2.25 - 1100 credit to offset A + B + C + E.

so far so good, our guy is responsive and fast - hopefully the rest of the process goes smoothly!

I have a few buddies in RE and the mortgage business, gave them and WF (current mort) a shot to match, no one really came close
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hansp
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Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by hansp »

Just Locked w/ LenderFi.

N. California
Townhouse
Existing Loan: $413K
Value: Roughly $1.5M, crazy bay area

LenderFi for 30 yr fixed: 2.75% "no cost" ($1500 lender credit), covers A+B+C+E w/ $75 to spare.

Better had quoted no cost @ 3.25% (plus AMEX credit). Said there was no way they could match LenderFi and "congratulations"

Based upon conversation here, moving forward w/ LenderFi.

Question: Should we ask Better for the $100 because they won't match? We sent them the lender estimate
NoGambleNoFuture
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NoGambleNoFuture »

Where do you see the breakdown of the actual fees from better? I did the app online and got to the point where I have the breakdown on today’s offered rates broken down at diff rates on 15, 20, and 30 year options.

If I select a rate here what’s the next step?

I’m not anxious to lock anything in. Is it correct from those in here that negotiations will be better/easier over the phone and/or with another option?

I’m using the Amex connection for the credit and am already being hit up by the concierge... not certain if that’s something to discuss with them or not?
Wildcat23
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Wildcat23 »

NoGambleNoFuture wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:53 pm Where do you see the breakdown of the actual fees from better? I did the app online and got to the point where I have the breakdown on today’s offered rates broken down at diff rates on 15, 20, and 30 year options.

If I select a rate here what’s the next step?

I’m not anxious to lock anything in. Is it correct from those in here that negotiations will be better/easier over the phone and/or with another option?

I’m using the Amex connection for the credit and am already being hit up by the concierge... not certain if that’s something to discuss with them or not?
just click on Loan Estimate - it is all right there, the layout and ease of their website is top notch
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

NoGambleNoFuture wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:53 pm Where do you see the breakdown of the actual fees from better? I did the app online and got to the point where I have the breakdown on today’s offered rates broken down at diff rates on 15, 20, and 30 year options.

If I select a rate here what’s the next step?

I’m not anxious to lock anything in. Is it correct from those in here that negotiations will be better/easier over the phone and/or with another option?

I’m using the Amex connection for the credit and am already being hit up by the concierge... not certain if that’s something to discuss with them or not?
I think its best not to mention AMEX until after you see the numbers you like.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Agent9 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:52 pm How do you calculate the break even on a refi before reaching the break even on the original loan? Do you add the new break even to the old break even? Example: If I took out a 30 year fixed in 2017 with a break even of 5 years and am considering a refi now with a break even of 3 years do I add the 3 years to the 2 years remaining on the original loan to get a new break even of 5 years?
Based on what everyone is getting you should look for a refi that is 0 break even. $0 cost!

Edit: fixed typos
NoGambleNoFuture
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NoGambleNoFuture »

Wildcat23 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:00 pm
NoGambleNoFuture wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:53 pm Where do you see the breakdown of the actual fees from better? I did the app online and got to the point where I have the breakdown on today’s offered rates broken down at diff rates on 15, 20, and 30 year options.

If I select a rate here what’s the next step?

I’m not anxious to lock anything in. Is it correct from those in here that negotiations will be better/easier over the phone and/or with another option?

I’m using the Amex connection for the credit and am already being hit up by the concierge... not certain if that’s something to discuss with them or not?
just click on Loan Estimate - it is all right there, the layout and ease of their website is top notch
Perfect TY! Found it.

Another dumb Q - if I have been contributing towards an escrow all year and it equals about what they are looking for escrow in refinance - is there a way to roll that over to cover that cost?
Agent9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Agent9 »

Thanks for the replies! Will keep that in mind.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

bws wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:04 pm
NoGambleNoFuture wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:53 pm Where do you see the breakdown of the actual fees from better? I did the app online and got to the point where I have the breakdown on today’s offered rates broken down at diff rates on 15, 20, and 30 year options.

If I select a rate here what’s the next step?

I’m not anxious to lock anything in. Is it correct from those in here that negotiations will be better/easier over the phone and/or with another option?

I’m using the Amex connection for the credit and am already being hit up by the concierge... not certain if that’s something to discuss with them or not?
I think its best not to mention AMEX until after you see the numbers you like.
Bws, is there any valid reason (something you've experienced) why you mentioned not going through the Better/Amex website? I mentioned this to a Better rep while helping a family member with a refi, and was told that the Better/Amex route is better because you wouldn't have to pay for the appraisal up front.

I have the same concern that you do, and asked that question earlier in this thread, but no one responded. I'm planning to do my own refi now, and have to decide on which Better website to use. In other words, will the concierge rep provide the same level of service, and use the same rate tables as the regular Better rep when given a competitor's LE?
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
manatee2005
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by manatee2005 »

pianos101 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:22 pm Anyone get so far as to lock a rate with one lender, get to the beginning of underwriting and then withdraw because of a better offer (that the first company was shown and given the opportunity to match)?

I just withdrew an application and was told that I don't have integrity for telling the first LO that I was ready to forward (I was at the time...). I mean I feel bad playing the game and pulling out after rate locking, but isn't that how the business is set up?
It’s done all the time, don’t worry about it.
mets914
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mets914 »

pianos101 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:22 pm Anyone get so far as to lock a rate with one lender, get to the beginning of underwriting and then withdraw because of a better offer (that the first company was shown and given the opportunity to match)?

I just withdrew an application and was told that I don't have integrity for telling the first LO that I was ready to forward (I was at the time...). I mean I feel bad playing the game and pulling out after rate locking, but isn't that how the business is set up?
I did it today. Loan Depot would not match LenderFi so I told them that I'd like to withdraw the application. They said okay.
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