Refinance Mega Thread

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Stupendous
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 12:22 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Stupendous »

mtwhmemn wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:07 am
NDS wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:58 am I haven't read all 58 pages of posts in this thread, curious if there's a post - or something in the forum wiki - that explains what situations are attractive to refi providers to provide good deals, vs what's not. I'd reached out to a couple of refi providers whose sites provided me far worse #s than what's been shared on this thread, and only comments I'd get back were something like "not for your situation". 750+ credit score, income well above what would be needed by ratio to loan value, etc. Don't get it.
Same here. 800+ credit score, income well above what would be needed by ratio to loan value, etc. Don't get it.

Maybe it is geographic location? I don't know. I'm going to sit on the sidelines for a few months and then try again. There is the possibility rates will go lower. I'm in a 3.875% 30 and only owe $190K on a 275K house. I refied last year this time so my rate isn't awful, but wanting to do better and likely do a 20 yr.

If you figure it out let me know!
I've been told a few times it's my loan amount that hurts me. I currently have a 30-year 3.75% with a remaining balance of $105K on a house worth $400K. I've gone through every place mentioned in this thread and I cannot get a deal at all.
modest_man
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 10:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by modest_man »

modest_man wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:54 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:02 pm
modest_man wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:36 pm Quicken, Better, and LD both appear to balk at the notion of lender credits. LD quoted me $12K for a 265K loan at 2.75%, which appears ludicrous (at least Better was half that at 5300).

I wouldn't be surprised if they are turning away price shoppers due to the high influx of applications.
I am almost clear to close with a decent lender credit. Both loanDepot and Better have worked with me. Quicken left a message today saying "we approved your mortgage, call us ASAP." I sent them the competing loan estimate over 8 days ago.
Then I'm clearly doing something wrong. I spoke with quicken who flat out didn't even want me to send a competing loan estimate. Do I just need to wait and let them come to me? I owe 265K on a condo worth 400-450K with a credit score 800+.

To top that off, I had an absolutely atrocious experience with a loan officer at LoanDepot who flat out refused to send me a loan estimate with stipulated credits. Since there was no good reason for him to deny me a LE, I complained and am now dealing with an executive loan officer. He seemed proud to give me a verbal quote of $3400 for 30 year 2.75%, but I'm still waiting on the official LE.
Just got off the phone with the executive loan officer at LD. He was able to offer 2.75% for $2350. However, 2.875% is also available at no cost. I'm going to shop the offer to better, but I suspect I'll just go with the 2.875.
GT99
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GT99 »

Was reading this thread and wondering why I couldn't find as good of a deal as many. Then I spoke with a small local credit union, the guy told me if we paid down from a jumbo to conforming loan, he could do 2.75% on a 30 year fixed for 0.5% points. On a jumbo, the best he could do was 3.0% for 1% points, which was still the best offer I'd had on a 30 year fixed. Prior to finding this one, I was about to go with 2.875% on a 10/1 arm with 1% points.

Easy decision to pay down the loan by $25k for the conforming loan. LenderFi wouldn't even give me a quote for the Jumbo loan.
Monsterflockster
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Monsterflockster »

Stupendous wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:11 pm
mtwhmemn wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:07 am
NDS wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:58 am I haven't read all 58 pages of posts in this thread, curious if there's a post - or something in the forum wiki - that explains what situations are attractive to refi providers to provide good deals, vs what's not. I'd reached out to a couple of refi providers whose sites provided me far worse #s than what's been shared on this thread, and only comments I'd get back were something like "not for your situation". 750+ credit score, income well above what would be needed by ratio to loan value, etc. Don't get it.
Same here. 800+ credit score, income well above what would be needed by ratio to loan value, etc. Don't get it.

Maybe it is geographic location? I don't know. I'm going to sit on the sidelines for a few months and then try again. There is the possibility rates will go lower. I'm in a 3.875% 30 and only owe $190K on a 275K house. I refied last year this time so my rate isn't awful, but wanting to do better and likely do a 20 yr.

If you figure it out let me know!
I've been told a few times it's my loan amount that hurts me. I currently have a 30-year 3.75% with a remaining balance of $105K on a house worth $400K. I've gone through every place mentioned in this thread and I cannot get a deal at all.
Your loan balance is way too small. You’ll get a good rate if you cash out up to 250-300k. But you’re a Boglehead. Cash out some taxable & pay it off.
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

I've commented a few times in this thread as I progressed through my refinance, but now that it's completed, I'll lay out the details and provide some lessons learned:

Current loan:
3.375% rate
20y fixed
17y left
$235k balance

Basics:
Income: $200k+
Credit score: 790s
Location: MD
Estimated value: $380k
LTV: 62%

We purchased this home about seven years ago and already refinanced from a 4.25% 30y to the 3.375% 20y three years ago. But I saw the stories about rates dropping to historic lows and saw this thread and figured it was worth taking a look. I followed the advice given here to get a lot of quotes, including from aggregators. I ended up talking to Loan Depot, LenderFi, and Better.com. I'd gotten quotes from Quicken Loans, Mutual of Omaha and Cardinal, but they were non-competitive or unable to match offers I already had on hand. I also spoke to my current lender, thinking they could "modify" my loan or somesuch, but that's limited to folks in financial distress. Anything I did with my current lender would be de novo.

The initial offers were all at 2.625% with several thousand in loan/origination costs. From the initial batch, the best was LenderFi with $913 in A+B+C+credits. Better went and beat it by $1,000. I locked with them on the 16th. (Which just happened to be the lowest day for 15y loans. While the 30y has continued to drop, the 15y bounced back up and hasn't gotten back down this far, yet.)

Loan Depot came back so I passed the Better loan estimate to them. Dude came to within $800 of beating Better PLUS the Amex credit. I gave him props, but told him I couldn't leave that much money on the table. But, I figured it was worth giving Better his new loan estimate and see what they could do. They beat it by $500 for a total credit of -$2,810, plus the Amex credit. Wow!

My current lender called again, so I passed him the Better loan estimate. He was able to match the Loan Depot offer, but no further. So , Better it was.


A+B+C+Credit
June 15 LenderFi $913
June 16 Better -$637 (+$2,500 Amex credit)
June 17 Loan Depot -$2,332
June 24 Better -$2,885 (+$2,500 Amex credit)

Final numbers:
A+B+C+E:
Credit Report $57.53
Flood Certification $14.00
Lender's Title Insurance $345.00
Settlement Fee $450.00
Recording Fees $60.00
Transfer Taxes $14.00
Total $940.53

Credits -$3,751.00
Final -$2,810.47

With Amex credit -$5,310.47

I elected to continue using escrow for home insurance and property taxes.

Locked on the 16th, underwriting wrapped up on the 23rd, closed on the 8th. Probably could have closed even sooner if both the underwriter and closing expert didn't take a week to respond to my emails (And I didn't take a five night vacation over the 4th of July weekend!).

We scheduled closing for the day after we got back from vacation but the numbers weren't 100% right. I emailed the corrections to the closing expert prior to my trip, but he went radio silent. Two days before closing, the title company sent me an email to confirm our availability for closing. I told them that we couldn't close until the numbers were fixed. I emailed the closer when I got back (less than 24 hours before closing was scheduled) and he got back to me at 1:30am! We proceeded to fix all the numbers during the day and had it all settled by early afternoon. But the notary was told not to come to my house by the title company. But then an hour later, she was assigned to come over again, so we did it at 8pm instead of 6pm...the day after returning home from vacation. These things are never easy...

Funding should have gone through today. As of tonight, no sign of activity on either my old or new (The Money Source) processor's sites. As long as my current lender gets notice by the 15th, I won't have missed my July payment.

In total, this refinance will put $5,310 in my pocket, save me $28k in interest, cut the loan by two years and speed up equity buildup. I'll be adding over $1k a month in equity with the first payment.

All in all, I'm quite pleased. The wife even agreed it was worth an hour of signing documents.




Lessons learned:

1. If you have an Amex, talk to Better. If you don't have an Amex, get one with no annual fee, then talk to Better.

2. Submit your info with the aggregators and the companies mentioned here frequently.
  • Aggregators:
    • NerdWallet
      BankRate
      Credible
      Mortgage Professor
    Individual Companies:
    • Better
      LenderFi
      Loan Depot
      Northpointe
      Your local credit union
3. Get loan estimates.
  • They are legally required to provide them, and you don't have to put any money down to get it. But don't say that it's for shopping around. Just mention that you want to be able to compare apples to apples.
4. Shop the loan estimates around.
  • Depending on your negotiation skills, it may be worth talking to loan officers on the phone, unlike when dealing with car salespeople. When you're shopping for a refi, you're really selling your loan and your job is to get the best price from the loan officers, who are vying to purchase your loan (to sell for a profit).
5. Profit!



It seems some of the lenders are either getting smart to our tactics or are simply so swamped they won't even bother competing now. This is unfortunate, but the steps above are still the right approach, at least until the Amex deal expires for step 1.

Now, let's see how my wife feels about another hour of signing in six months if rates keep dropping...

Good luck, all!
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

BarDownHockey wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:50 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:59 pm As comparison, the loan estimate I got on Thursday, for a loan value of $718k at 2.75% had the following:

A. Origination Charge: $0
B. Services You Cannot Shop For: $201
C. Services You Can Shop For: $1,000
E. Taxes and Other Government Fees: $187
Lender Credit: -$1,388 (covers all of the above.
At $718k, is your loan under the conforming limit for your county? It would be great to know whether that quote is for a super conforming loan or a jumbo. I haven’t seen no cost jumbos anywhere. Not saying I don’t believe you, but rather that is love to know which lender And what state you’re in!
Correct. Super conforming. Orange County California.
Seattler123
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Seattler123 »

Seattler123 wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:21 pm Better.com did match the 3.0% rate with $1k less in fees. Locked with them. Don't have AmEx :( so no $2500 cashback.
The original rates on better.com were higher than my current rate of 3.75, it was only due to the competing offer the rate came down so much.

Final details:
Superconforming/high balance loan - $620k
30 year fixed 3.0%
Total cost - Credit of $300. With appraisal waiver, it comes to -$850.
Seattler123 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:32 pm
Seattler123 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:45 am Getting 30 year fixed at 3.125 with 0 points, 0 origination fee, appraisal waived for $620k loan in Seattle area (High balance non-jumbo conforming loan).
This is with a lender I got from Zillow (Sebonic). Still waiting to see if better.com can better this. Their current rates are showing up as 3.75%, so I'll be surprised if they can match this.

Previous mortgage:
06/2019 - Refinance with better.com. $630k loan at 3.75%
06/2018 - Purchase. $650k loan at 4.25%
Haven't heard back from Better.com today but I see better rates today via zillow/bankrate.
Farmers bank of KC and CFBank are the lenders with 3.0% interest rates (with title fees and appraisal if needed). Anyone has any experience with either of these?
Finished closing today with better.com. Everything went super smooth.

Super-conforming loan - $620k (70% LTV)
30 year fixed 3.0%
Total cost - Credit of $1100. (A+B+C total cost $1500, lender credit $2600. Appraisal waived.)
Locked on 06/23, closed on 07/13.
Last edited by Seattler123 on Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
3of10
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

Brain wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:31 pm I've commented a few times in this thread as I progressed through my refinance, but now that it's completed, I'll lay out the details and provide some lessons learned:

Current loan:
3.375% rate
20y fixed
17y left
$235k balance

Basics:
Income: $200k+
Credit score: 790s
Location: MD
Estimated value: $380k
LTV: 62%

We purchased this home about seven years ago and already refinanced from a 4.25% 30y to the 3.375% 20y three years ago. But I saw the stories about rates dropping to historic lows and saw this thread and figured it was worth taking a look. I followed the advice given here to get a lot of quotes, including from aggregators. I ended up talking to Loan Depot, LenderFi, and Better.com. I'd gotten quotes from Quicken Loans, Mutual of Omaha and Cardinal, but they were non-competitive or unable to match offers I already had on hand. I also spoke to my current lender, thinking they could "modify" my loan or somesuch, but that's limited to folks in financial distress. Anything I did with my current lender would be de novo.

The initial offers were all at 2.625% with several thousand in loan/origination costs. From the initial batch, the best was LenderFi with $913 in A+B+C+credits. Better went and beat it by $1,000. I locked with them on the 16th. (Which just happened to be the lowest day for 15y loans. While the 30y has continued to drop, the 15y bounced back up and hasn't gotten back down this far, yet.)

Loan Depot came back so I passed the Better loan estimate to them. Dude came to within $800 of beating Better PLUS the Amex credit. I gave him props, but told him I couldn't leave that much money on the table. But, I figured it was worth giving Better his new loan estimate and see what they could do. They beat it by $500 for a total credit of -$2,810, plus the Amex credit. Wow!

My current lender called again, so I passed him the Better loan estimate. He was able to match the Loan Depot offer, but no further. So , Better it was.


A+B+C+Credit
June 15 LenderFi $913
June 16 Better -$637 (+$2,500 Amex credit)
June 17 Loan Depot -$2,332
June 24 Better -$2,885 (+$2,500 Amex credit)

Final numbers:
A+B+C+E:
Credit Report $57.53
Flood Certification $14.00
Lender's Title Insurance $345.00
Settlement Fee $450.00
Recording Fees $60.00
Transfer Taxes $14.00
Total $940.53

Credits -$3,751.00
Final -$2,810.47

With Amex credit -$5,310.47

I elected to continue using escrow for home insurance and property taxes.

Locked on the 16th, underwriting wrapped up on the 23rd, closed on the 8th. Probably could have closed even sooner if both the underwriter and closing expert didn't take a week to respond to my emails (And I didn't take a five night vacation over the 4th of July weekend!).

We scheduled closing for the day after we got back from vacation but the numbers weren't 100% right. I emailed the corrections to the closing expert prior to my trip, but he went radio silent. Two days before closing, the title company sent me an email to confirm our availability for closing. I told them that we couldn't close until the numbers were fixed. I emailed the closer when I got back (less than 24 hours before closing was scheduled) and he got back to me at 1:30am! We proceeded to fix all the numbers during the day and had it all settled by early afternoon. But the notary was told not to come to my house by the title company. But then an hour later, she was assigned to come over again, so we did it at 8pm instead of 6pm...the day after returning home from vacation. These things are never easy...

Funding should have gone through today. As of tonight, no sign of activity on either my old or new (The Money Source) processor's sites. As long as my current lender gets notice by the 15th, I won't have missed my July payment.

In total, this refinance will put $5,310 in my pocket, save me $28k in interest, cut the loan by two years and speed up equity buildup. I'll be adding over $1k a month in equity with the first payment.

All in all, I'm quite pleased. The wife even agreed it was worth an hour of signing documents.




Lessons learned:

1. If you have an Amex, talk to Better. If you don't have an Amex, get one with no annual fee, then talk to Better.

2. Submit your info with the aggregators and the companies mentioned here frequently.
  • Aggregators:
    • NerdWallet
      BankRate
      Credible
      Mortgage Professor
    Individual Companies:
    • Better
      LenderFi
      Loan Depot
      Northpointe
      Your local credit union
3. Get loan estimates.
  • They are legally required to provide them, and you don't have to put any money down to get it. But don't say that it's for shopping around. Just mention that you want to be able to compare apples to apples.
4. Shop the loan estimates around.
  • Depending on your negotiation skills, it may be worth talking to loan officers on the phone, unlike when dealing with car salespeople. When you're shopping for a refi, you're really selling your loan and your job is to get the best price from the loan officers, who are vying to purchase your loan (to sell for a profit).
5. Profit!



It seems some of the lenders are either getting smart to our tactics or are simply so swamped they won't even bother competing now. This is unfortunate, but the steps above are still the right approach, at least until the Amex deal expires for step 1.

Now, let's see how my wife feels about another hour of signing in six months if rates keep dropping...

Good luck, all!
Brain, thanks for the detailed update. It sums it up pretty well. Looks like the days of getting huge lender credits are over for now, but the rates are still low. It's pretty much "hit or miss" these days with the lenders. Some will work with you, while others won't even return your call.

The important thing is to first have a game plan, starting with having a goal of a minimum acceptable rate/cost one is willing to go forward with. As BrandonBogle has mentioned, "don't let perfect be the enemy of good".
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
nepats
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:56 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nepats »

I received an offer of 2.875 with no closing costs for a High balance conforming loan from LenderFi. We have an high LTV and credit scores. I applied today and received the loan disclosures from them tonight! Pretty quick, I must say. I am tempted to go with them. What do you think? I know some folks have managed to get to 2.75, but I have not inquired with any other lender so far.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Brain wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:31 pm In total, this refinance will put $5,310 in my pocket, save me $28k in interest, cut the loan by two years and speed up equity buildup. I'll be adding over $1k a month in equity with the first payment.

All in all, I'm quite pleased. The wife even agreed it was worth an hour of signing documents.
Congrats Brain! I am glad you were able to put our collective experience together to work such an amazing deal. I'm quite jealous! Great job!

Now keep an eye on this thread once a month to see if you need to do it again! lol
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 6213
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 pm Now keep an eye on this thread once a month to see if you need to do it again! lol
+1 to this advice!
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:44 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 pm Now keep an eye on this thread once a month to see if you need to do it again! lol
+1 to this advice!
The thoughts of doing a third refi in 2020 make me wonder which options I should pick. Except for the points/credits listed, A + B + C + E = $1,200. In my case, I will get an extra $2,500 for the Amex promo (I.e., add $1,300 in my pocket to the amounts below).

15 year
  • 2.25% @ $300 points
  • 2.375% @ 300 credits
  • 2.5% @ 1,000 credits
  • 2.625% @ 1,650 credits
  • 2.75% @ 2,125 credits
  • 2.875% @ 2,567 credits
  • 3.0% @ 3,000 credits
  • 3.125% @ 3,550 credits
    ... and so on to 3.875% @ $4,875 credits
30 year
  • 2.75% @ $50 points
  • 2.875% @ 750 credits
  • 3.0% @ 1,450 credits
  • 3.125% @ 2,100 credits
  • 3.25% @ 3,000 credits
  • 3.375% @ 3,625 credits
  • 3.5% @ 4,125 credits
  • 3.625% @ 4,525 credits
  • 3.75% @ 4,700 credits
Each 1/8 point is about $1,500 difference in interest on the 15-year. I'm currently at 2.625% and prior to May was at 2.875%.

Right now, I am leaning to 2.625%. The idea being that, if suddenly the market dries up for low rates for refinancing small mortgages, I wouldn't have a problem with carrying the 2.625%. However, right now, it doesn't seem hard to get to 2.5% with no cost (w/o a promo like Better's with Amex), so why not pocket what I can?
Hoodwink
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:47 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoodwink »

Brain wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:31 pm I've commented a few times in this thread as I progressed through my refinance, but now that it's completed, I'll lay out the details and provide some lessons learned:

Current loan:
3.375% rate
20y fixed
17y left
$235k balance

Basics:
Income: $200k+
Credit score: 790s
Location: MD
Estimated value: $380k
LTV: 62%

We purchased this home about seven years ago and already refinanced from a 4.25% 30y to the 3.375% 20y three years ago. But I saw the stories about rates dropping to historic lows and saw this thread and figured it was worth taking a look. I followed the advice given here to get a lot of quotes, including from aggregators. I ended up talking to Loan Depot, LenderFi, and Better.com. I'd gotten quotes from Quicken Loans, Mutual of Omaha and Cardinal, but they were non-competitive or unable to match offers I already had on hand. I also spoke to my current lender, thinking they could "modify" my loan or somesuch, but that's limited to folks in financial distress. Anything I did with my current lender would be de novo.

The initial offers were all at 2.625% with several thousand in loan/origination costs. From the initial batch, the best was LenderFi with $913 in A+B+C+credits. Better went and beat it by $1,000. I locked with them on the 16th. (Which just happened to be the lowest day for 15y loans. While the 30y has continued to drop, the 15y bounced back up and hasn't gotten back down this far, yet.)

Loan Depot came back so I passed the Better loan estimate to them. Dude came to within $800 of beating Better PLUS the Amex credit. I gave him props, but told him I couldn't leave that much money on the table. But, I figured it was worth giving Better his new loan estimate and see what they could do. They beat it by $500 for a total credit of -$2,810, plus the Amex credit. Wow!

My current lender called again, so I passed him the Better loan estimate. He was able to match the Loan Depot offer, but no further. So , Better it was.


A+B+C+Credit
June 15 LenderFi $913
June 16 Better -$637 (+$2,500 Amex credit)
June 17 Loan Depot -$2,332
June 24 Better -$2,885 (+$2,500 Amex credit)

Final numbers:
A+B+C+E:
Credit Report $57.53
Flood Certification $14.00
Lender's Title Insurance $345.00
Settlement Fee $450.00
Recording Fees $60.00
Transfer Taxes $14.00
Total $940.53

Credits -$3,751.00
Final -$2,810.47

With Amex credit -$5,310.47

I elected to continue using escrow for home insurance and property taxes.

Locked on the 16th, underwriting wrapped up on the 23rd, closed on the 8th. Probably could have closed even sooner if both the underwriter and closing expert didn't take a week to respond to my emails (And I didn't take a five night vacation over the 4th of July weekend!).

We scheduled closing for the day after we got back from vacation but the numbers weren't 100% right. I emailed the corrections to the closing expert prior to my trip, but he went radio silent. Two days before closing, the title company sent me an email to confirm our availability for closing. I told them that we couldn't close until the numbers were fixed. I emailed the closer when I got back (less than 24 hours before closing was scheduled) and he got back to me at 1:30am! We proceeded to fix all the numbers during the day and had it all settled by early afternoon. But the notary was told not to come to my house by the title company. But then an hour later, she was assigned to come over again, so we did it at 8pm instead of 6pm...the day after returning home from vacation. These things are never easy...

Funding should have gone through today. As of tonight, no sign of activity on either my old or new (The Money Source) processor's sites. As long as my current lender gets notice by the 15th, I won't have missed my July payment.

In total, this refinance will put $5,310 in my pocket, save me $28k in interest, cut the loan by two years and speed up equity buildup. I'll be adding over $1k a month in equity with the first payment.

All in all, I'm quite pleased. The wife even agreed it was worth an hour of signing documents.




Lessons learned:

1. If you have an Amex, talk to Better. If you don't have an Amex, get one with no annual fee, then talk to Better.

2. Submit your info with the aggregators and the companies mentioned here frequently.
  • Aggregators:
    • NerdWallet
      BankRate
      Credible
      Mortgage Professor
    Individual Companies:
    • Better
      LenderFi
      Loan Depot
      Northpointe
      Your local credit union
3. Get loan estimates.
  • They are legally required to provide them, and you don't have to put any money down to get it. But don't say that it's for shopping around. Just mention that you want to be able to compare apples to apples.
4. Shop the loan estimates around.
  • Depending on your negotiation skills, it may be worth talking to loan officers on the phone, unlike when dealing with car salespeople. When you're shopping for a refi, you're really selling your loan and your job is to get the best price from the loan officers, who are vying to purchase your loan (to sell for a profit).
5. Profit!



It seems some of the lenders are either getting smart to our tactics or are simply so swamped they won't even bother competing now. This is unfortunate, but the steps above are still the right approach, at least until the Amex deal expires for step 1.

Now, let's see how my wife feels about another hour of signing in six months if rates keep dropping...

Good luck, all!
Is negotiations possible after locking in the rate with lenders or has to be negotiated before locking in the rate.
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Hoodwink wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:15 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:31 pm My ramblings
Is negotiations possible after locking in the rate with lenders or has to be negotiated before locking in the rate.
Better was willing to match the Loan Depot offer after I'd locked with them. Some folks in this thread reported their lender balking at matching competing offers after locking. I didn't even have to cajole my contact, just asked them to match it. They took a week to get around to it, but did it.

The lenders may try to sell locking as sealing the deal, but you can walk away at any time. If someone else comes along with a better deal, feel free to take it. Just make sure to let the first lender know why you're walking away, to give them a little push to get the match done.
ymmt
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:59 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

GT99 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:50 pm Was reading this thread and wondering why I couldn't find as good of a deal as many. Then I spoke with a small local credit union, the guy told me if we paid down from a jumbo to conforming loan, he could do 2.75% on a 30 year fixed for 0.5% points. On a jumbo, the best he could do was 3.0% for 1% points, which was still the best offer I'd had on a 30 year fixed. Prior to finding this one, I was about to go with 2.875% on a 10/1 arm with 1% points.

Easy decision to pay down the loan by $25k for the conforming loan. LenderFi wouldn't even give me a quote for the Jumbo loan.
Jumbo deals are nearly impossible to find right now. These guys are getting more than enough business from conforming loans without having to carry the risk on their books. They don't expect rates to go down until we have better clarity on the COVID situation and banks are more willing to lend.

Unfortunately, my county has relatively low conforming limits (unlike CA for example), and paying down to conforming would require me to put way too much cash into the house.

For anyone thinking of refi-ing into a jumbo: LoanDepot is not doing them. LenderFi supposedly is not doing them (they are also not taking new applications), Watermark Home Loans is not competitive (3.625% 30yr), Better.com is not competitive (3.25% w/ 2pts), Chase is not competitive and rate also depends on your LTV (3.5% 30yr).

My regional bank is offering 2.75% 5/1 ARM which after contemplating about it for a while, might offer the best way forward. This is with an eye on where interest rates are going and when this COVID situation plays out.
KNMLHD
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:57 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KNMLHD »

ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:56 pm
itsallaboutme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:38 am
ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:39 am
itsallaboutme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:05 am I had a bankruptcy years ago which will be off of my credit next year mid March. My credit score is 735 right now do you think it's best to wait or try to get a refinance at one of these low rates? Not sure where the rates are heading up or down.
BOTH. Refinance now to take advantage of low rates, but lock in something that is no/low cost. That way you aren't out anything significant out of pocket and have no sunk cost to refinance again down the road. Every lender will offer no cost options. It just means your rate will be slightly higher.

Example, Better had offered me 2.875% with a $1,500 credit to closing costs. But my closing costs were $2,500 so I would have been out $1,000. So I asked them to price me at 3%. When they priced it, that higher interest rate increased the lender credit to about $5,000 with no change to the closing costs. So I was able to go from 3.5% down to 3.0% and get paid $2,500 to do it.

I closed last week and rates were lower, so I'm now in the process of refinancing with Lenderfi at 2.75% with a credit to cover all closing costs. It takes some work and effort, but if you are willing to research and have lenders compete, you can save yourself 5-6 figures over the life of your loan.
Thank you. Here is what I am being offered so far.

2.75% 299K same rate for 30 25 and 20 years rolling in 10k to the loan break even after 28.5 payments. I owe right now 286k in current loan and have FHA which is $188 a month extra in payments and 59,408k FHA left of total payments so,

30 year I save $350 a month from current loan. saving 11,703k plus the 59,408k FHA total life of loan
25 years I save $192 a month from current loan. saving 37,318k plus 59,408k FHA total life of loan
20 years pay $50 more a month. saving 62,048k plus 59,408k FHA total life of loan

There are other options one is 3.25% 295k loan still rolls over 6100k still saving months for 30 and 25 years but not that much most is about $289 for the 30 years. $136 for 25 years

Also 3.5% still rolls in 3900k

No rolling in but interest is 4.1%
It is only me on the loan my wife's credit is 695-700 so we tried with just my scores.

I am saving no matter what if I get out of the FHA loan should I jump on this? Better than my current lenders offer I would have loved to go with LEnderFI but from the forum I see LoanDepot is next best.
Couple comments:

1) If the interest rate is the same for 30,25 or 20, I would do 30. Allows you to pay lower monthly payment if needed, but provides the flexibility to pay it off sooner if you want by making higher monthly payments.

2) There is a big difference between what is rolling into the new loan and costs. You need to look at the costs which are provided in your loan estimate. This is the sum of Section A (Origination Charges), Section B (Services You Cannot Shop For), Section C (Services You Can Shop For) and Section E (Taxes and Other Government Fees). Items in Section F (Prepaids) and Section G (Escrow) are things that might be rolling into the loan, but should not be counted as costs because you would be paying these anyway. Once you calculate the true costs, there should be a line item in Section J for Lender Credits. That line item should be larger with higher rate options. When people talk about "No Cost" loan, they are saying the lender credit offsets the costs in Sections A, B, C and E.
Thanks for this! We are just at the point of getting below jumbo limits, and am now revisiting refis. Trying to get all our ducks and waiting to see what happens after all the big banks announce earnings. I'm trying to better understand the elements of a LE.

Any idea on a refi, what line items tend not to be there as compared to a purchase? I suspect the first LE I get will clear up many of these Qs but thought I'd ask to better prepare going inL

For B)
Sounds like some lenders will waive (or provide credit) for Appraisal... reportedly anything over $1M in value requires appraisal? If lender provides an Appraisal credit, would that show up as part of J, or is it separate?

On a refi, should we expect Flood Determination/Monitoring Fees, and Tax monitoring/status research fees?

For C)
I have our original Title, so I assume I should compare re-issue rate from title company vs new title?

On a refi, would you typically see Pest Inspection and Survey Fees?

For E)
There are no avoidable costs - correct?

For G)
If we are wanting to manage Insurance and Property Tax separately from escrow, this should come to $0

Any other major considerations/levers one can pull to lower costs? It sounds like to get to a no cost refi, one must look to limit points, possibly get appraisal waived, look at reissuing title, and attempt to offset costs with Lender Credits.


I remember seeing a refi LE explanation either in this thread or elsewhere, but for the life of me I can't find it. :(
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 6213
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:59 pm
anon_investor wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:44 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 pm Now keep an eye on this thread once a month to see if you need to do it again! lol
+1 to this advice!
The thoughts of doing a third refi in 2020 make me wonder which options I should pick. Except for the points/credits listed, A + B + C + E = $1,200. In my case, I will get an extra $2,500 for the Amex promo (I.e., add $1,300 in my pocket to the amounts below).

15 year
  • 2.25% @ $300 points
  • 2.375% @ 300 credits
  • 2.5% @ 1,000 credits
  • 2.625% @ 1,650 credits
  • 2.75% @ 2,125 credits
  • 2.875% @ 2,567 credits
  • 3.0% @ 3,000 credits
  • 3.125% @ 3,550 credits
    ... and so on to 3.875% @ $4,875 credits
30 year
  • 2.75% @ $50 points
  • 2.875% @ 750 credits
  • 3.0% @ 1,450 credits
  • 3.125% @ 2,100 credits
  • 3.25% @ 3,000 credits
  • 3.375% @ 3,625 credits
  • 3.5% @ 4,125 credits
  • 3.625% @ 4,525 credits
  • 3.75% @ 4,700 credits
Each 1/8 point is about $1,500 difference in interest on the 15-year. I'm currently at 2.625% and prior to May was at 2.875%.

Right now, I am leaning to 2.625%. The idea being that, if suddenly the market dries up for low rates for refinancing small mortgages, I wouldn't have a problem with carrying the 2.625%. However, right now, it doesn't seem hard to get to 2.5% with no cost (w/o a promo like Better's with Amex), so why not pocket what I can?
Not sure what the break ever is for you between the credits gained on the 2.625% versus the 2.5%, but I would lean towards the 2.5% (if actually no cost), only because who knows when these crazy rates will end. My strategy on my first refi in May was to try to get the most net credits possible because I was coming from a higher rate anything was better. With this my 2nd refi I am trying to get the lowest no cost rate, because who knows when this market will dry up.
slamer94
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:08 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by slamer94 »

I just contacted LoanDepot and they said that you cannot refinance with them unless you have been with the same mortgage loan company for over 6 months. I just wanted to confirm if anyone else has come across this info or if I should call again.
jimmyrules712
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jimmyrules712 »

Hoodwink wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:04 pm Should I lock on a rate of 2.5% with 5K in lender fees for 510K loan amount? This is with lenderfi. If i go 2.625 then no lender fee and just closing cost.

Similar were the rates with another lender.
I would ask what rate you can get with enough lender credits to make it zero closing costs (excluding prepaids and escrow). If that's 2.75% or maybe even 2.875% then it might be worth it. If rates drop another .5% you might be refinancing again in 6 months so you want to keep your out of pocket costs to do this at a minimum.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:30 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:59 pm 15 year
  • 2.5% @ 1,000 credits
  • 2.625% @ 1,650 credits
  • 2.75% @ 2,125 credits
Each 1/8 point is about $1,500 difference in interest on the 15-year. I'm currently at 2.625% and prior to May was at 2.875%.

Right now, I am leaning to 2.625%. The idea being that, if suddenly the market dries up for low rates for refinancing small mortgages, I wouldn't have a problem with carrying the 2.625%. However, right now, it doesn't seem hard to get to 2.5% with no cost (w/o a promo like Better's with Amex), so why not pocket what I can?
Not sure what the break ever is for you between the credits gained on the 2.625% versus the 2.5%, but I would lean towards the 2.5% (if actually no cost), only because who knows when these crazy rates will end. My strategy on my first refi in May was to try to get the most net credits possible because I was coming from a higher rate anything was better. With this my 2nd refi I am trying to get the lowest no cost rate, because who knows when this market will dry up.
Comparing the two options in isolation/between each other, it would take over 6 years (81 months) to recoup the $650 in interest savings. Even 2.75% vs 2.625% is a 5 year payback on the $475. Over 15 years, it's about $1,500 in interest between each 1/8 point option; so between 2.5% and 2.625%, I get almost half of that immediately.

Last go around I focused on no-cost and wish I took the 2.875% option instead of 2.625%. For that round, that would have meant $1k in my pocket.
Familyman2012
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

Tomorrow is when the notary comes to sign paperwork.
I’m a little confuse with my numbers now after talking to my closing expert.

Orignally, the loan estimate was for $325,000. That was my balance after making a June payment.

The 1st payoff amount was requested on July 1st. Amount was $326,500

A few days ago they requested a new payoff amount since I made a July payment. New amount is $325,458.

When i checked my new balance on my old lender. The amount is for $324,300.

I understand that the payoff amount is more than the loan amount because we pay mortgage in arrear. But when I asked my closing expert what my new official loan amount will be after refi. He said it will be $325,000.

Shouldn’t it be $324,300? The remaining balance of my old lender?

Sorry if this seems like an easy answer. I’m just confuse with the numbers. Here is his response:

Thank you for asking for further clarification on this. The balance on your new loan will be $325,000. This amount is independent from the principal of your previous mortgage. While you and Michael originally set it up to match with the principal of your previous mortgage, we do not adjust your new loan amount unless we are explicitly asked to. This is because several aspects of your closing costs, such as your lender credits, title fees, and rate eligibility, are directly affected by your loan amount, so we like to keep it constant during this process. By making your July payment, you did not affect your new loan amount in any way. You decreased the amount we will be collecting at closing, which is why you are now being given some funds back, rather than paying closing costs. I hope that clears it up! Let me know if there is anything you would like to go over. I want to help you feel as comfortable as possible with the figures you are signing tomorrow morning.


Is this correct? I want to fee comfortable signing paperwork with the notary. Am I overthinking this process? Like I usually do with everything.
Jags4186
Posts: 5670
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:58 am Tomorrow is when the notary comes to sign paperwork.
I’m a little confuse with my numbers now after talking to my closing expert.

Orignally, the loan estimate was for $325,000. That was my balance after making a June payment.

The 1st payoff amount was requested on July 1st. Amount was $326,500

A few days ago they requested a new payoff amount since I made a July payment. New amount is $325,458.

When i checked my new balance on my old lender. The amount is for $324,300.

I understand that the payoff amount is more than the loan amount because we pay mortgage in arrear. But when I asked my closing expert what my new official loan amount will be after refi. He said it will be $325,000.

Shouldn’t it be $324,300? The remaining balance of my old lender?

Sorry if this seems like an easy answer. I’m just confuse with the numbers. Here is his response:

Thank you for asking for further clarification on this. The balance on your new loan will be $325,000. This amount is independent from the principal of your previous mortgage. While you and Michael originally set it up to match with the principal of your previous mortgage, we do not adjust your new loan amount unless we are explicitly asked to. This is because several aspects of your closing costs, such as your lender credits, title fees, and rate eligibility, are directly affected by your loan amount, so we like to keep it constant during this process. By making your July payment, you did not affect your new loan amount in any way. You decreased the amount we will be collecting at closing, which is why you are now being given some funds back, rather than paying closing costs. I hope that clears it up! Let me know if there is anything you would like to go over. I want to help you feel as comfortable as possible with the figures you are signing tomorrow morning.


Is this correct? I want to fee comfortable signing paperwork with the notary. Am I overthinking this process? Like I usually do with everything.
Some lenders will only lend to the nearest $1000. If your payoff is $324,300 and you're getting a $325,000 loan, $700 is being applied towards your closing costs. If you want a $324,000 loan you would need to bring an additional $1000 at closing time.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:58 am A few days ago they requested a new payoff amount since I made a July payment. New amount is $325,458.
...
when I asked my closing expert what my new official loan amount will be after refi. He said it will be $325,000.

Shouldn’t it be $324,300? The remaining balance of my old lender?
$324,300 is less than the payoff of $325,458. Your new loan usually is at least the size of the payoff. It seems like right now, you need to make up the $458 shortage from the new loan’s $325,000, plus your closing costs. Honestly, I’m surprised they didn’t ask to raise the new loan to $325,458 vs. leaving it at $325,000. But they can’t just raise it automatically — needs to be decided by you.
jimmyrules712
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jimmyrules712 »

For those who haven't been able to get in the door with LenderFi due to them closing applications, I may have stumbled across a way around that. I noticed on facebook I had an advertisement for LenderFi. I was curious what it did and clicked the link and it appears to take me to a different page on their website to submit an application than their main front page that current says applications are closed. I already have a refi in progress so I didn't go as far as submitting an application but it might be worth a shot.

https://app.lenderfi.com/app/signup/partner/lenderfi
itsallaboutme
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itsallaboutme »

I am waiting on a call from Better and Ally which seem to use the same online software. I am also going to try a union I am in called Alliant.
I reached out to my loan officer who got me my current mortgage 3 1/2 years ago he said he will run numbers for me but also said the lender credit option is good but for me the whole point is to get out of the FHA loan. He said you something about it's better for people who are a year or so in so there is no value to take advantage of. He said it's a simple short term reset with a better rate. He said fees are recoup so fast it won't even matter.
itsallaboutme
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itsallaboutme »

jimmyrules712 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:53 am For those who haven't been able to get in the door with LenderFi due to them closing applications, I may have stumbled across a way around that. I noticed on facebook I had an advertisement for LenderFi. I was curious what it did and clicked the link and it appears to take me to a different page on their website to submit an application than their main front page that current says applications are closed. I already have a refi in progress so I didn't go as far as submitting an application but it might be worth a shot.

https://app.lenderfi.com/app/signup/partner/lenderfi
I submitted an application yesterday I reported on this site. I thought they were still going through with online but just not accepting them. But reading your comment I do remember seeing the front page that did not allow applying.
Familyman2012
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:42 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:58 am A few days ago they requested a new payoff amount since I made a July payment. New amount is $325,458.
...
when I asked my closing expert what my new official loan amount will be after refi. He said it will be $325,000.

Shouldn’t it be $324,300? The remaining balance of my old lender?
$324,300 is less than the payoff of $325,458. Your new loan usually is at least the size of the payoff. It seems like right now, you need to make up the $458 shortage from the new loan’s $325,000, plus your closing costs. Honestly, I’m surprised they didn’t ask to raise the new loan to $325,458 vs. leaving it at $325,000. But they can’t just raise it automatically — needs to be decided by you.
The payoff is $325,458. The new loan amount is $325,000(the amount they put on the free loan estimate). I have enough lenders credit to cover all closing cost, all taxes, prepaids and then a refund of $-956.

Im just confuse on why my new loan amount principal is different from my old lender principle after paying July, interest to old lender and prepaids to new lender.
I guess after paying everything, I thought my new loan would be my old principal of $324,300. I guess to make things easier, I can always add my refund of $956 to the new principal.
5280Tim
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:33 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 5280Tim »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:00 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:42 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:58 am A few days ago they requested a new payoff amount since I made a July payment. New amount is $325,458.
...
when I asked my closing expert what my new official loan amount will be after refi. He said it will be $325,000.

Shouldn’t it be $324,300? The remaining balance of my old lender?
$324,300 is less than the payoff of $325,458. Your new loan usually is at least the size of the payoff. It seems like right now, you need to make up the $458 shortage from the new loan’s $325,000, plus your closing costs. Honestly, I’m surprised they didn’t ask to raise the new loan to $325,458 vs. leaving it at $325,000. But they can’t just raise it automatically — needs to be decided by you.
The payoff is $325,458. The new loan amount is $325,000(the amount they put on the free loan estimate). I have enough lenders credit to cover all closing cost, all taxes, prepaids and then a refund of $-956.

Im just confuse on why my new loan amount principal is different from my old lender principle after paying July, interest to old lender and prepaids to new lender.
I guess after paying everything, I thought my new loan would be my old principal of $324,300. I guess to make things easier, I can always add my refund of $956 to the new principal.
It’s the additional interest accrued since your last payment, since mortgages are paid in arrears. Example: If your interest was $1,000 for the month and you close on the 15th, you’d owe $500 in interest for the 1st-15th. The payoff statement will include a date they calculated the payoff amount to, close early, you’ll get some of that back, close later, they’ll add some interest per day.
Familyman2012
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

5280Tim wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:45 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:00 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:42 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:58 am A few days ago they requested a new payoff amount since I made a July payment. New amount is $325,458.
...
when I asked my closing expert what my new official loan amount will be after refi. He said it will be $325,000.

Shouldn’t it be $324,300? The remaining balance of my old lender?
$324,300 is less than the payoff of $325,458. Your new loan usually is at least the size of the payoff. It seems like right now, you need to make up the $458 shortage from the new loan’s $325,000, plus your closing costs. Honestly, I’m surprised they didn’t ask to raise the new loan to $325,458 vs. leaving it at $325,000. But they can’t just raise it automatically — needs to be decided by you.
The payoff is $325,458. The new loan amount is $325,000(the amount they put on the free loan estimate). I have enough lenders credit to cover all closing cost, all taxes, prepaids and then a refund of $-956.

Im just confuse on why my new loan amount principal is different from my old lender principle after paying July, interest to old lender and prepaids to new lender.
I guess after paying everything, I thought my new loan would be my old principal of $324,300. I guess to make things easier, I can always add my refund of $956 to the new principal.
It’s the additional interest accrued since your last payment, since mortgages are paid in arrears. Example: If your interest was $1,000 for the month and you close on the 15th, you’d owe $500 in interest for the 1st-15th. The payoff statement will include a date they calculated the payoff amount to, close early, you’ll get some of that back, close later, they’ll add some interest per day.
Yes, I understand that. The new requested payoff was updated a couple days ago. After my July payment and paying the PAYOFF Amount. I just don’t understand why the new loan isn’t the same as the old loan. Again, I’m just probably over thinking it.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:04 am Yes, I understand that. The new requested payoff was updated a couple days ago. After my July payment and paying the PAYOFF Amount. I just don’t understand why the new loan isn’t the same as the old loan. Again, I’m just probably over thinking it.
1. The old lender could charge fees for closing out the old loan. This would be included in the payoff amount. Usually these aren’t large fees, but are there. For my last refi, it was a $20 fee.

2. The request for the new payoff, while after your July payment, may have been early enough that the funds on the payment hadn’t been collected yet. It takes a few days after the payment is received for it to actually clear. Thus, they may have still included the July payment due in the payoff.
Familyman2012
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:09 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:04 am Yes, I understand that. The new requested payoff was updated a couple days ago. After my July payment and paying the PAYOFF Amount. I just don’t understand why the new loan isn’t the same as the old loan. Again, I’m just probably over thinking it.
1. The old lender could charge fees for closing out the old loan. This would be included in the payoff amount. Usually these aren’t large fees, but are there. For my last refi, it was a $20 fee.

2. The request for the new payoff, while after your July payment, may have been early enough that the funds on the payment hadn’t been collected yet. It takes a few days after the payment is received for it to actually clear. Thus, they may have still included the July payment due in the payoff.
I’m trying to process it all.

But out of curiosity. When people initially get a free loan estimate. And the loan officer ask “what is your current estimate loan balance?” What do most people say?
Or when you’re filling out an application online, what amount do you put in the section where it says “estimate loan balance”?

I’m thinking whatever you put determine how much cash you bring to the table once you account for payoff amount and lenders credit. Then it determines if you owe money or get money back.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:14 am But out of curiosity. When people initially get a free loan estimate. And the loan officer ask “what is your current estimate loan balance?” What do most people say?
Or when you’re filling out an application online, what amount do you put in the section where it says “estimate loan balance”?
I always provide the loan balance from your prior mortgage statement. Most of these details come from the credit report and the credit report will not reflect the new balance after a payment. So basically, if I applied today and my July payment was already applied on the loan, I would tell them my May 31st balance. If July hadn't been appleid yet, I would tell them April 30th.

All that said, every app I've submitted either automatically increased that to account for payoff amounts, or adjusted after "intent to proceed" to account for it.
Familyman2012
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:19 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:14 am But out of curiosity. When people initially get a free loan estimate. And the loan officer ask “what is your current estimate loan balance?” What do most people say?
Or when you’re filling out an application online, what amount do you put in the section where it says “estimate loan balance”?
I always provide the loan balance from your prior mortgage statement. Most of these details come from the credit report and the credit report will not reflect the new balance after a payment. So basically, if I applied today and my July payment was already applied on the loan, I would tell them my May 31st balance. If July hadn't been appleid yet, I would tell them April 30th.

All that said, every app I've submitted either automatically increased that to account for payoff amounts, or adjusted after "intent to proceed" to account for it.
I locked on June 27th. I put the amount that was updated after my June 7th payment. For future reference because I do plan to refi again if rates drop. Should I put the balance of my may 7th statement?

Like I mention early, I know I’m making a big deal over this. But I like to know exactly where every penny goes to.

Let’s use a hypothetical scenario. Let’s say I had no idea of what my loan balance was. If I inputted $320,000 on my loan estimate. And pay off was $326,500. Does that mean I would have to bring $6,500 to the table to close? And my new loan would be $320k?

Or the opposite scenario, if I inputted $330,000 on my loan estimate. And payoff is $326,500. Does that mean they would refund me $3500 and my new loan would be $330k?

Is that how it works?
Last edited by Familyman2012 on Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
ThreeBears
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ThreeBears »

Odd's I'll be eligible for the Amex credit, if I go sign up for the card and didn't apply for the refinance yet?


Huh, "Better" does not do MN yet. So, won't work for me.
Last edited by ThreeBears on Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:45 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:19 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:14 am But out of curiosity. When people initially get a free loan estimate. And the loan officer ask “what is your current estimate loan balance?” What do most people say?
Or when you’re filling out an application online, what amount do you put in the section where it says “estimate loan balance”?
I always provide the loan balance from your prior mortgage statement. Most of these details come from the credit report and the credit report will not reflect the new balance after a payment. So basically, if I applied today and my July payment was already applied on the loan, I would tell them my May 31st balance. If July hadn't been appleid yet, I would tell them April 30th.

All that said, every app I've submitted either automatically increased that to account for payoff amounts, or adjusted after "intent to proceed" to account for it.
I locked on June 27th. I put the amount that was updated after my June 7th payment. For future reference because I do plan to refi again if rates drop. Should I put the balance of my may 7th statement?

Like I mention early, I know I’m making a big deal over this. But I like to know exactly where every penny goes to.
Yes, I would recommend putting the May 7th balance based on the dates you shared. Since the June 1st statement is what goes to your credit report, but doesn't even go to your credit report until closer to June 15th (in case they need to mark the May payment over 30 days late - yes, yours wasn't late, but this is all automated for all their customers). Thus, a June 7th payment wouldn't be accounted for in all these initial numbers.

The good news is, at the end of the day, any overpayments will be refunded to you by your old lender about two weeks after payoff. And keep that in mind b/c almost aways does the settlement agent send an overpayment, so that if there is a day or two delay in processing, there isn't a need to follow up with another few dollars to finish things. So your payoff $325,428 is likely to be higher than the "to the penny" payoff even if there wasn't the unknown about your July payment.
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:04 am
5280Tim wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:45 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:00 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:42 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:58 am A few days ago they requested a new payoff amount since I made a July payment. New amount is $325,458.
...
when I asked my closing expert what my new official loan amount will be after refi. He said it will be $325,000.

Shouldn’t it be $324,300? The remaining balance of my old lender?
$324,300 is less than the payoff of $325,458. Your new loan usually is at least the size of the payoff. It seems like right now, you need to make up the $458 shortage from the new loan’s $325,000, plus your closing costs. Honestly, I’m surprised they didn’t ask to raise the new loan to $325,458 vs. leaving it at $325,000. But they can’t just raise it automatically — needs to be decided by you.
The payoff is $325,458. The new loan amount is $325,000(the amount they put on the free loan estimate). I have enough lenders credit to cover all closing cost, all taxes, prepaids and then a refund of $-956.

Im just confuse on why my new loan amount principal is different from my old lender principle after paying July, interest to old lender and prepaids to new lender.
I guess after paying everything, I thought my new loan would be my old principal of $324,300. I guess to make things easier, I can always add my refund of $956 to the new principal.
It’s the additional interest accrued since your last payment, since mortgages are paid in arrears. Example: If your interest was $1,000 for the month and you close on the 15th, you’d owe $500 in interest for the 1st-15th. The payoff statement will include a date they calculated the payoff amount to, close early, you’ll get some of that back, close later, they’ll add some interest per day.
Yes, I understand that. The new requested payoff was updated a couple days ago. After my July payment and paying the PAYOFF Amount. I just don’t understand why the new loan isn’t the same as the old loan. Again, I’m just probably over thinking it.
You have other costs on the loan that are being rolled in, specifically there is pre-paid interest on the new loan. Meaning you are prepaying interest on the new loan for the rest of the month of July (10-15 days depending on when you fund). You will not have a mortgage payment in August since mortgage interest is paid in arrears. Your first bill will be in September and it will be principal and interest for August. So the new loan balance pays off the existing loan plus some prepaid interest on the new loan. The amount seems reasonable.
itsallaboutme
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itsallaboutme »

Is this a good deal from Better?

3.375% Lender Credits takes care of everything with this rate. V.S 2.75% from LoanDepot and Quicken but has closing rolled in.

I will have to pay $550 for appraisal up front to lock in rate. I will pay my escrow which should be around $1950 which $550 is deducted because of appraisal. I will get this money back after closing because my escort is around $2500 so he said it's basically a wash.
Close in 30 days I will be paying $308 less a month from my current mortgage. This monthly amount is only $44 more than the amount I got from LoanDepot and Quicken but I will not need to wait 28 months to break even because I will have lender credit.
The rate is less than my current rate and removes my FHA loan. My current rate with FHA loan factored in is around 4.3% Nothing is rolled in. I was given option to roll in the amount of $2500 which I would get back but that would increase the monthly payment I will not roll anything in because I want the payments low
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

KNMLHD wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:29 am

Thanks for this! We are just at the point of getting below jumbo limits, and am now revisiting refis. Trying to get all our ducks and waiting to see what happens after all the big banks announce earnings. I'm trying to better understand the elements of a LE.

Any idea on a refi, what line items tend not to be there as compared to a purchase? I suspect the first LE I get will clear up many of these Qs but thought I'd ask to better prepare going inL

For B)
Sounds like some lenders will waive (or provide credit) for Appraisal... reportedly anything over $1M in value requires appraisal? If lender provides an Appraisal credit, would that show up as part of J, or is it separate?
Fannie and Freddie require appraisals over $1M. Others may not. Additionally, there are ways around appraisals. Example: I just closed a refi with Better and my appraisal was $1,090,000. I am in the process of already doing a refi with Lenderfi to go down another 0.25%. To avoid the appraisal, he put my value at under $1M and set it at whatever resulted in a 75% LTV (which I assume is their cutoff for favorable pricing). So the cost doesn't even show up on my loan estimate since the appraisal is not happening. If they require an appraisal and are covering it, then this would be included in your lender credit.
KNMLHD wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:29 am
On a refi, should we expect Flood Determination/Monitoring Fees, and Tax monitoring/status research fees?
I have not seen these on any refi loan estimate I have done
KNMLHD wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:29 am For C)
I have our original Title, so I assume I should compare re-issue rate from title company vs new title?

On a refi, would you typically see Pest Inspection and Survey Fees?

For E)
There are no avoidable costs - correct?

For G)
If we are wanting to manage Insurance and Property Tax separately from escrow, this should come to $0
Yes, likely re-issue title. You can call any title company to price and tell them it's for a refi. You should not see Pest or Survey Fees. Correct on E. These are not avoidable, but you can get a lender credit to cover. Correct on G, though I've heard you get better pricing on the loan if you escrow, so I am doing that and will cancel the escrow after the fact.
KNMLHD wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:29 am
Any other major considerations/levers one can pull to lower costs? It sounds like to get to a no cost refi, one must look to limit points, possibly get appraisal waived, look at reissuing title, and attempt to offset costs with Lender Credits.
You shouldn't limit points, you should push for no points. In addition, you ask the lender for true no cost. This means they will provide a credit to cover anything in Section A, B, C, E. You will sacrifice a bit on the rate to get it, but your out of pocket expense will be 0.
limeyx
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by limeyx »

modest_man wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:36 pm Quicken, Better, and LD both appear to balk at the notion of lender credits. LD quoted me $12K for a 265K loan at 2.75%, which appears ludicrous (at least Better was half that at 5300).

I wouldn't be surprised if they are turning away price shoppers due to the high influx of applications.
I went from over $8400 in section A+B+C with Quicken and no lender credits down to around $2500 in A+B+C and a lender credit of $2000 by showing them the LE from Better & bringing up the AMEX creit. This took about 2 txts and an email.
Not as fantastic as some here are seeing but sometimes at least, they will do it
itsallaboutme
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itsallaboutme »

Okay with the help of this forum I got through to LenderFi and got a rate of 2.875% closing cost $27 lender credit covers everything else. Just need to pay escrow and prepaid insurance. Escrow is $4000 I will get back after closing. I have more than that in escrow right now. I will save $366 a month I locked in the rate. I don't think I can get better than this. I thought the loan from Better was good at 3.375% but this is better.

I went from no lender credit to lender credit and paying less a month thank you
itsallaboutme
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itsallaboutme »

ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:59 pm
itsallaboutme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:42 pm
I actually got LoanDepot to go with $8000 closing cost $299k loan. so some of this information will be lower this is from the original Loan estimate
Origination Charges $8619
Services You Cannot Shop For $100
Services You Can Shop For $1385
Taxes and Other Government Fees $325
Section J shows D + I $13036 underneath it says Lender Credits to the right does not show anything so I guess that amount is lender credit? This is original from the time he said 10k closing now he says 8k so the numbers will be different I will update when I get them.

Also estimate I get back from escrow is $2780
This looks like a terrible deal. Origination charges of $8,619 on a $299k loan is ridiculous! Your total costs for this are over $10k ($8,619+100+1385+325). As comparison, the loan estimate I got on Thursday, for a loan value of $718k at 2.75% had the following:

A. Origination Charge: $0
B. Services You Cannot Shop For: $201
C. Services You Can Shop For: $1,000
E. Taxes and Other Government Fees: $187
Lender Credit: -$1,388 (covers all of the above.

You should run away from this lender as fast as you can. Alternatively, ask him what rate he will provide on a loan that gives you a lender credit to cover costs in A, B, C, E.
Hey I wanted to let you know I got Lender credit now of $1969 closing cost $1996 so that leaves me paying $27 closing. No appraisal cost. Rate 2.875% from LenderFI So to everyone you can still apply with LenderFi if you can get through. I applied yesterday
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

itsallaboutme wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:36 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:59 pm
itsallaboutme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:42 pm
I actually got LoanDepot to go with $8000 closing cost $299k loan. so some of this information will be lower this is from the original Loan estimate
Origination Charges $8619
Services You Cannot Shop For $100
Services You Can Shop For $1385
Taxes and Other Government Fees $325
Section J shows D + I $13036 underneath it says Lender Credits to the right does not show anything so I guess that amount is lender credit? This is original from the time he said 10k closing now he says 8k so the numbers will be different I will update when I get them.

Also estimate I get back from escrow is $2780
This looks like a terrible deal. Origination charges of $8,619 on a $299k loan is ridiculous! Your total costs for this are over $10k ($8,619+100+1385+325). As comparison, the loan estimate I got on Thursday, for a loan value of $718k at 2.75% had the following:

A. Origination Charge: $0
B. Services You Cannot Shop For: $201
C. Services You Can Shop For: $1,000
E. Taxes and Other Government Fees: $187
Lender Credit: -$1,388 (covers all of the above.

You should run away from this lender as fast as you can. Alternatively, ask him what rate he will provide on a loan that gives you a lender credit to cover costs in A, B, C, E.


Hey I wanted to let you know I got Lender credit now of $1969 closing cost $1996 so that leaves me paying $27 closing. No appraisal cost. Rate 2.875% from LenderFI So to everyone you can still apply with LenderFi if you can get through. I applied yesterday
Excellent. So with a little work you went from 2.75% and about $10,000 in out of pocket closing costs at Loan Depot to 2.875% with $27 out of pocket at Lenderfi. Sounds like a huge win to me. Congrats!
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

itsallaboutme wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:28 pm Okay with the help of this forum I got through to LenderFi and got a rate of 2.875% closing cost $27 lender credit covers everything else. Just need to pay escrow and prepaid insurance. Escrow is $4000 I will get back after closing. I have more than that in escrow right now. I will save $366 a month I locked in the rate. I don't think I can get better than this. I thought the loan from Better was good at 3.375% but this is better.

I went from no lender credit to lender credit and paying less a month thank you
If you want to do a little more work, you can send Lenderfi's loan estimate to Better and they will likely beat it. If you applied via the Amex promotion you would also get an additional $2,500 in statement credit. Might be worth giving it a try. There should be a place on your Better portal for you to upload the competing loan estimate. Only caveat is you have to do it within 1 day of receiving the estimate from Lenderfi.
nepats
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:56 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nepats »

nepats wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:04 pm I received an offer of 2.875 with no closing costs for a High balance conforming loan from LenderFi. We have an high LTV and credit scores. I applied today and received the loan disclosures from them tonight! Pretty quick, I must say. I am tempted to go with them. What do you think? I know some folks have managed to get to 2.75, but I have not inquired with any other lender so far.
Quick call to LenderFi resulted in dropping the rate to 2.75! It seems the rates have moved today
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 6213
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

itsallaboutme wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:28 pm Okay with the help of this forum I got through to LenderFi and got a rate of 2.875% closing cost $27 lender credit covers everything else. Just need to pay escrow and prepaid insurance. Escrow is $4000 I will get back after closing. I have more than that in escrow right now. I will save $366 a month I locked in the rate. I don't think I can get better than this. I thought the loan from Better was good at 3.375% but this is better.

I went from no lender credit to lender credit and paying less a month thank you
Glad that worked out.
itsallaboutme
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itsallaboutme »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:53 pm
itsallaboutme wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:28 pm Okay with the help of this forum I got through to LenderFi and got a rate of 2.875% closing cost $27 lender credit covers everything else. Just need to pay escrow and prepaid insurance. Escrow is $4000 I will get back after closing. I have more than that in escrow right now. I will save $366 a month I locked in the rate. I don't think I can get better than this. I thought the loan from Better was good at 3.375% but this is better.

I went from no lender credit to lender credit and paying less a month thank you
Glad that worked out.
Thank you you were one of the people who helped me. I had no idea of this going in and people from this forum helped out a lot. Thanks everyone.
itsallaboutme
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itsallaboutme »

ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:45 pm
itsallaboutme wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:28 pm Okay with the help of this forum I got through to LenderFi and got a rate of 2.875% closing cost $27 lender credit covers everything else. Just need to pay escrow and prepaid insurance. Escrow is $4000 I will get back after closing. I have more than that in escrow right now. I will save $366 a month I locked in the rate. I don't think I can get better than this. I thought the loan from Better was good at 3.375% but this is better.

I went from no lender credit to lender credit and paying less a month thank you
If you want to do a little more work, you can send Lenderfi's loan estimate to Better and they will likely beat it. If you applied via the Amex promotion you would also get an additional $2,500 in statement credit. Might be worth giving it a try. There should be a place on your Better portal for you to upload the competing loan estimate. Only caveat is you have to do it within 1 day of receiving the estimate from Lenderfi.
Thank you. You helped out a lot. I will try to see if Better can beat. The only thing was Better said there's an appraisal of $550 which I would get back because they deduct from amount I would have to give for escrow. Which I will get back. I am locked in so it won't hurt to try. I don't have an Amex card. I just got the loan estimate from LenderFI today. I will get back...
Last edited by itsallaboutme on Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 6213
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

itsallaboutme wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:07 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:45 pm
itsallaboutme wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:28 pm Okay with the help of this forum I got through to LenderFi and got a rate of 2.875% closing cost $27 lender credit covers everything else. Just need to pay escrow and prepaid insurance. Escrow is $4000 I will get back after closing. I have more than that in escrow right now. I will save $366 a month I locked in the rate. I don't think I can get better than this. I thought the loan from Better was good at 3.375% but this is better.

I went from no lender credit to lender credit and paying less a month thank you
If you want to do a little more work, you can send Lenderfi's loan estimate to Better and they will likely beat it. If you applied via the Amex promotion you would also get an additional $2,500 in statement credit. Might be worth giving it a try. There should be a place on your Better portal for you to upload the competing loan estimate. Only caveat is you have to do it within 1 day of receiving the estimate from Lenderfi.
Thank you. You helped out a lot. I will try to see if Better can beat. I am locked in so it won't hurt to try. I don't have an Amex card. I just got the loan estimate from LenderFI today. I will get back...
Good luck! Better would not match my LenderFi offer last week.
nepats
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:56 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nepats »

nepats wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:49 pm
nepats wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:04 pm I received an offer of 2.875 with no closing costs for a High balance conforming loan from LenderFi. We have an high LTV and credit scores. I applied today and received the loan disclosures from them tonight! Pretty quick, I must say. I am tempted to go with them. What do you think? I know some folks have managed to get to 2.75, but I have not inquired with any other lender so far.
Quick call to LenderFi resulted in dropping the rate to 2.75! It seems the rates have moved today
I also tried to get this matched via my contacts at WF and BOA but both told me they couldn’t come close.
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

nepats wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:09 pm
nepats wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:49 pm
nepats wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:04 pm I received an offer of 2.875 with no closing costs for a High balance conforming loan from LenderFi. We have an high LTV and credit scores. I applied today and received the loan disclosures from them tonight! Pretty quick, I must say. I am tempted to go with them. What do you think? I know some folks have managed to get to 2.75, but I have not inquired with any other lender so far.
Quick call to LenderFi resulted in dropping the rate to 2.75! It seems the rates have moved today
I also tried to get this matched via my contacts at WF and BOA but both told me they couldn’t come close.
For some reason the big banks are not competing. I think the reason is they require a ton of paperwork and their process takes 2-4 MONTHS versus the online guys who are doing things in 4-6 weeks. This means the big banks need to have a longer lock which costs more money. Just my theory.
Post Reply