Refinance Mega Thread

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Berean
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean »

Please help a novice with a few basic questions.

A number of folks are discussing letters A through F, which apparently represent closing costs or fees on a loan. What are they? So far I only have a "closing costs worksheet" from Northpointe Bank; it contains no such line items demarcated by letters. Will they be on the official Loan Estimate once I obtain one?

Several have discussed negotiating with the lender to drop escrow. What are the disadvantages of escrow? My current lender has escrowed for the 11 years of my current mortgage, and I perceive no disadvantage. If anything, it eliminates the minor inconvenience of writing semiannual checks to my county tax office and to my insurance company. If there are no big advantages to eliminating escrow, why would I try to negotiate it away during the refi process? I would rather use what leverage I have to negotiate a lower interest rate or lower costs/fees.

A lot of folks have stated that, to get Better's best offer, you have to ask them to match an offer from some other lender. What is the best way to do that? Should I go through the initial process with Better, generate what I expect will be their unfavorable initial offer, then show them a competing offer and ask them to match? Or should I just contact Better, give them the offer I already have, and ask them to match?
kmanjir
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kmanjir »

mt2k wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:17 am
kmanjir wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:35 am
Thank you! I ended up deciding to go with the 3% rate, as I will still be dropping 1% point and will even be able to apply some of the lender credits to the prepaids/escrow.

Currently, the closing is estimated to be 8/7, that estimate seems to be par for the course, based on others' experiences here.

I did have a question. So, for a mortgage balance of $280K, they are estimating - "your payoff estimate will be around $282,000 since we pay mortgage interest in the arrears."

I understand the concept of paying the mortgage interest in arrears, however, I am not following the calculations here.
If the closing date is 8/7, and the daily interest payment is 23.5, it seems they are collecting ~85 days worth of mortgage interest. If so, why?
I thought it would be 30 days for the month prior to closing + whatever number of days they need to collect during the month of closing.
Am I thinking about this correctly, or am I completely off-base here?

Just trying to understand how they calculated that the payoff estimate is $2K over the loan balance.
Your closing is on 8/7 and looks like the funding will be on 8/24 so that is 85 days from your last payment (6/1).
If you are going to make one payment (7/1) before closing, your Payoff amount will be the new principal as of 7/1 and 55 days interest
If you are going to make two payments (7/1 & 8/1) before closing, your Payoff amount will be the new principal as of 8/1 and 24 days interest

Thanks for explaining, makes sense.

Another question - on the official loan estimate, the 'payoff amount' is $282000. This is based on the information I had provided them from my last available mortgage statement + the mortgage interest in arrears they added.

However, as I was discussing above, I believe that I will have two more mortgage payments made to my current mortgage prior to the new loan closing.

This means my payoff amount would be less, let's say $277000 or thereabouts.

Should I expect the loan amount to be automatically updated to $277000 + mortgage interest in arrears, or am I stuck with a loan of $282000, as the application process has started?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MilleniumBuc wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:14 pmQuick question - by using the same servicing lender, does this avoid funding the Prepaids since it’s the same company holding the escrow account?
On a conventional mortgage following Mae/Mac guidelines, unless you explicitly told others, the escrow is not carried over to the new loan and you need to fund it separately and wait for a refund on the old escrow, even if it is with the same lender.

That said, the lender may not write for Mae/Mac and do things different or may offer their own secondary bridge loan to loan you the escrow funding (like at either 0% or the same rate as the mortgage) and the old escrow will be used as a payment to this. If any balance is left over still, you pay or they pay you, depending on the direction of that balance left over.
mt2k
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

kmanjir wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm
mt2k wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:17 am
kmanjir wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:35 am
Thank you! I ended up deciding to go with the 3% rate, as I will still be dropping 1% point and will even be able to apply some of the lender credits to the prepaids/escrow.

Currently, the closing is estimated to be 8/7, that estimate seems to be par for the course, based on others' experiences here.

I did have a question. So, for a mortgage balance of $280K, they are estimating - "your payoff estimate will be around $282,000 since we pay mortgage interest in the arrears."

I understand the concept of paying the mortgage interest in arrears, however, I am not following the calculations here.
If the closing date is 8/7, and the daily interest payment is 23.5, it seems they are collecting ~85 days worth of mortgage interest. If so, why?
I thought it would be 30 days for the month prior to closing + whatever number of days they need to collect during the month of closing.
Am I thinking about this correctly, or am I completely off-base here?

Just trying to understand how they calculated that the payoff estimate is $2K over the loan balance.
Your closing is on 8/7 and looks like the funding will be on 8/24 so that is 85 days from your last payment (6/1).
If you are going to make one payment (7/1) before closing, your Payoff amount will be the new principal as of 7/1 and 55 days interest
If you are going to make two payments (7/1 & 8/1) before closing, your Payoff amount will be the new principal as of 8/1 and 24 days interest

Thanks for explaining, makes sense.

Another question - on the official loan estimate, the 'payoff amount' is $282000. This is based on the information I had provided them from my last available mortgage statement + the mortgage interest in arrears they added.

However, as I was discussing above, I believe that I will have two more mortgage payments made to my current mortgage prior to the new loan closing.

This means my payoff amount would be less, let's say $277000 or thereabouts.

Should I expect the loan amount to be automatically updated to $277000 + mortgage interest in arrears, or am I stuck with a loan of $282000, as the application process has started?
I don't think they will update the loan amount automatically. You can get an official Payoff quote from you current lender after the last payment on 8/1 and provide that to Nothpointe to update the loan payoff amount. If you have online access to your current lender, you can get the payoff quote online for most of the lenders, just a few clicks away
snailderby
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by snailderby »

Berean wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm A number of folks are discussing letters A through F, which apparently represent closing costs or fees on a loan. What are they? So far I only have a "closing costs worksheet" from Northpointe Bank; it contains no such line items demarcated by letters. Will they be on the official Loan Estimate once I obtain one?
Yes, they will be on any Loan Estimate. See https://www.consumerfinance.gov/static/ ... 1d7719.png. You can also ask for an unofficial estimate of these costs, even before getting an official Loan Estimate. The costs in Section D + Section E are the extra costs you will incur by refinancing, minus any lender credits.
McJammer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by McJammer »

fanmail wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:29 pm
McJammer wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:41 pm If it's helpful to those considering a cash out refinance, just got off the phone with Anthony from Lenderfi and they are not doing cash out refis right now. :(
Darn, thanks for sharing. That is who I was planning to use as competition with Better.
Sorry about that :(

Conversing with AimLoan and the guy is telling me that pricing is higher if I escrow. I thought that I'd read differently here, or am I remembering that rates may be lower, not higher, if I choose to escrow? Sorry confused. I may still choose to escrow for simplicity and streamlining purposes, if I'm comfortable with the lender's servicing rep.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mt2k wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:08 pm
kmanjir wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm This means my payoff amount would be less, let's say $277000 or thereabouts.

Should I expect the loan amount to be automatically updated to $277000 + mortgage interest in arrears, or am I stuck with a loan of $282000, as the application process has started?
I don't think they will update the loan amount automatically. You can get an official Payoff quote from you current lender after the last payment on 8/1 and provide that to Nothpointe to update the loan payoff amount. If you have online access to your current lender, you can get the payoff quote online for most of the lenders, just a few clicks away
Yes, this is YMMV. It is all basically up to how the Settlement Agent is doing things. Some may not get any updated numbers closer to closing, or some (in my case) may get an updated payoff when the lender is preparing the initial closing disclosures. Either way, if you don’t want to have an overpayment and a refund from the current lender, I would personally request an updated payoff from the settlement agent (or via the old lender and forward to the settlement agent) if updated numbers are not on my initial closing disclosure.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

McJammer wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:13 pm Conversing with AimLoan and the guy is telling me that pricing is higher if I escrow. I thought that I'd read differently here, or am I remembering that rates may be lower, not higher, if I choose to escrow? Sorry confused. I may still choose to escrow for simplicity and streamlining purposes, if I'm comfortable with the lender's servicing rep.
I think it is an understanding mixup. Often (not always), the real closing costs are higher to waive escrow. That is either by adding a fee, or making the points needed for the rate you want become more expensive (this can also be presented to you as simply choosing the next higher rate to avoid changing the points on the estimate).

Additionally, you have escrow funding to bring to the closing table.

Thus, a rep may say it is more expensive and simply means you have to have more cash for closing than without an escrow, not how the true costs of the loan (Sections D + E minus credits) are changing.
fourballs
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fourballs »

Thanks to this thread we were able to shop around for a much better deal than we had expected. We currently have a ~700K 15 yr @ 3.625% for a ~2 mil house. 800+ credit score, no escrow. Here are the quotes I got (all fixed terms):

LoanDepot
15yr 2.5% ~$3k closing cost
30yr 2.875% ~$3k closing

Quicken Loans
15yr 2.25% $3k Closing
30yr 2.75% $3k closing
Current loan limit at %510k

LenderFi
15yr 2.5% $2k closing
30yr 2.875 $1k closing
30yr 2.75% $4k closing

CF Bank
15yr 2.65% $300 closing
30yr 2.875% 0 closing
30yr 2.75% $2k closing

I also have something similar from my local broker. We decided to go with LenderFi for speed. CF Bank would have been slightly better but I didn't get their quote until I already went with LenderFi. Maybe someone else here can take advantage of that. I have quotes also from Better, One True Loan, Wells Fargo, but they didn't offer anything close to what I listed above. I started making rounds on Tuesday and just two days later I'm already seeing better deals. We kept waffling over whether to do this now or to wait since some articles seem to indicate that rates might drop further as covid/economic recovery doesn't seem to be coming along well. But life circumstances might also change if things get worse so we decided to get it out of the way.
GRAZ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GRAZ »

I am early in on the process of refinancing, working with both LenderFI and better.com to take advantage of the amex promos through better.com

Better was willing to match the terms offered by LenderFI, but would not beat them due to me taking advantage of the $2500 amex statement credit.

Today I locked the the following:
Loan amt: $419k
Loan term: 30 year fixed
Interest rate: 2.875%
Total loan costs (A+B+C): $2338

Taking the $2500 amex statement credit into account, I am actually getting a credit of $162 and dropping my interest rate from 3.5% to 2.875% so I think I am doing OK.

Better has told me that they will still match a competing offer even though I have already locked in case rates improve in the next 1-2 weeks.

If anybody sees something that I may be missing, please comment.
C-man23
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by C-man23 »

I'll join the party. Proceeding with Loan Depot with the following.

15 year fixed
2.625% interest rate
Loan Amount = $325,000
J Total Closing Costs = $911

However, they claim that the $911 will be applied to escrow and it is a true "no cost" loan (since I had a no cost LE from LenderFi that they beat).
Can anyone help me with that? Are they pulling my leg?
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Berean wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm Please help a novice with a few basic questions.

A number of folks are discussing letters A through F, which apparently represent closing costs or fees on a loan. What are they? So far I only have a "closing costs worksheet" from Northpointe Bank; it contains no such line items demarcated by letters. Will they be on the official Loan Estimate once I obtain one?

Several have discussed negotiating with the lender to drop escrow. What are the disadvantages of escrow? My current lender has escrowed for the 11 years of my current mortgage, and I perceive no disadvantage. If anything, it eliminates the minor inconvenience of writing semiannual checks to my county tax office and to my insurance company. If there are no big advantages to eliminating escrow, why would I try to negotiate it away during the refi process? I would rather use what leverage I have to negotiate a lower interest rate or lower costs/fees.

A lot of folks have stated that, to get Better's best offer, you have to ask them to match an offer from some other lender. What is the best way to do that? Should I go through the initial process with Better, generate what I expect will be their unfavorable initial offer, then show them a competing offer and ask them to match? Or should I just contact Better, give them the offer I already have, and ask them to match?
A - F is on a Loan Estimate which is a standardized form all lenders use. I’ve never gotten a decent offer or willingness to compete with another lender’s offer by Northpointe so I’ve never pushed them for an official Loan Estimate worksheet. That worksheet they give you is worthless, IMO.

A: Details points and origination fees
B: Details fees that you cannot shop for (e.g. Flood Certificate)
C: Details fees you can shop for (e.g. Title Insurance)
D: is A + B + C

E: Details taxes owed for the transaction
F: Details interest you will owe
G: Details escrow funding
H: is E + F + G
I: Is D + H and is the total amount of cash required to close on the loan

Lender credits are detailed afterwards and will subtract from I to give you the cost to close.

Escrow accounts generally work fine, but they can and do mess up just like you can. Additionally, you’re basically putting money in a 0% savings account that you may not want to do. If you have lumpy income you may prefer having a lower monthly payment and only be responsible for quarterly/semiannual/annual payments on taxes and insurance.

Go get the best offer you can get before even approaching Better. They will continue to match and beat by $1000 until you lock your rate. Do all of your comparison shopping beforehand and once you are confident you have the best deal you can get, go to Better. Once you get Better’s best rate, circle that back around to see if folks will match that then go back to Better again and see if they’ll beat it again by $1000. Once you lock in with Better they may match a better offer but don’t guarantee it, and certainly won’t beat it by $1000.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Berean wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm Please help a novice with a few basic questions.


A - F is on a Loan Estimate which is a standardized form all lenders use. I’ve never gotten a decent offer or willingness to compete with another lender’s offer by Northpointe so I’ve never pushed them for an official Loan Estimate worksheet. That worksheet they give you is worthless, IMO.

A: Details points and origination fees
B: Details fees that you cannot shop for (e.g. Flood Certificate)
C: Details fees you can shop for (e.g. Title Insurance)
D: is A + B + C

E: Details taxes owed for the transaction
F: Details interest you will owe
G: Details escrow funding
H: is E + F + G
I: Is D + H and is the total amount of cash required to close on the loan

Lender credits are detailed afterwards and will subtract from I to give you the cost to close.
This is pretty good explanation. For me it differs a little:

F: Relates to all prepaids, not just interest. Some lenders may require prepay homeowners insurance, property taxes or mortgage insurance in addition to interest
H: I have two loan estimates that call this "Other". Both show $0 so not sure what would go here
I: This would now be E+F+G+H
J: This is D+I less any lender credits. Effectively the total closing costs. This can differ from the cash required to close depending on the payoff amount on your old loan and the value of the new loan.

Example: Your existing loan is $500,000, your new loan is $502,000 and the net amount in J is $5,000. At close you will need to bring $3,000 ($500,000+$5,000-$502,000). Oftentimes people simply roll the amount in J into the new loan so the amount of cash at close is near $0.
mt2k
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

fourballs wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:38 pm Thanks to this thread we were able to shop around for a much better deal than we had expected. We currently have a ~700K 15 yr @ 3.625% for a ~2 mil house. 800+ credit score, no escrow. Here are the quotes I got (all fixed terms):

LoanDepot
15yr 2.5% ~$3k closing cost
30yr 2.875% ~$3k closing

Quicken Loans
15yr 2.25% $3k Closing
30yr 2.75% $3k closing
Current loan limit at %510k

LenderFi
15yr 2.5% $2k closing
30yr 2.875 $1k closing
30yr 2.75% $4k closing

CF Bank
15yr 2.65% $300 closing
30yr 2.875% 0 closing
30yr 2.75% $2k closing

I also have something similar from my local broker. We decided to go with LenderFi for speed. CF Bank would have been slightly better but I didn't get their quote until I already went with LenderFi. Maybe someone else here can take advantage of that. I have quotes also from Better, One True Loan, Wells Fargo, but they didn't offer anything close to what I listed above. I started making rounds on Tuesday and just two days later I'm already seeing better deals. We kept waffling over whether to do this now or to wait since some articles seem to indicate that rates might drop further as covid/economic recovery doesn't seem to be coming along well. But life circumstances might also change if things get worse so we decided to get it out of the way.
Congratulations! I think you got great rates for a $700K loan.
I would still to go to Better with the CF bank quote to get $3,500 in my pocket. They are supposed to beat it by $1,000 plus the Amex $2,500..
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

ChiKid24 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:16 pm
Berean wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm Please help a novice with a few basic questions.


A - F is on a Loan Estimate which is a standardized form all lenders use. I’ve never gotten a decent offer or willingness to compete with another lender’s offer by Northpointe so I’ve never pushed them for an official Loan Estimate worksheet. That worksheet they give you is worthless, IMO.

A: Details points and origination fees
B: Details fees that you cannot shop for (e.g. Flood Certificate)
C: Details fees you can shop for (e.g. Title Insurance)
D: is A + B + C

E: Details taxes owed for the transaction
F: Details interest you will owe
G: Details escrow funding
H: is E + F + G
I: Is D + H and is the total amount of cash required to close on the loan

Lender credits are detailed afterwards and will subtract from I to give you the cost to close.
This is pretty good explanation. For me it differs a little:

F: Relates to all prepaids, not just interest. Some lenders may require prepay homeowners insurance, property taxes or mortgage insurance in addition to interest
H: I have two loan estimates that call this "Other". Both show $0 so not sure what would go here
I: This would now be E+F+G+H
J: This is D+I less any lender credits. Effectively the total closing costs. This can differ from the cash required to close depending on the payoff amount on your old loan and the value of the new loan.

Example: Your existing loan is $500,000, your new loan is $502,000 and the net amount in J is $5,000. At close you will need to bring $3,000 ($500,000+$5,000-$502,000). Oftentimes people simply roll the amount in J into the new loan so the amount of cash at close is near $0.
Thanks for the correction! I forgot about H being just other stuff. I’ve done 5 loans in my day and never had anything show up in H so I guess I forgot about it.
datadatum
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:16 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by datadatum »

Just locked. I wasn't going to do it, but then rates went below 3%.

30yr conventional, 2.875%, $700 closing. Very pleased so far... The lender is New American.
Crazy_Aussie
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Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:19 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Crazy_Aussie »

Crazy_Aussie wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:43 pm

That was for the 2.875% 30yr fixed rate.
See my previous post a few pages earlier in this thread for the complete lists of closing costs I was offered originally.

If you are looking for rates in Texas, then it really only takes a couple minutes on www.AHCLending.com to get their full quote with all the closing costs and credits etc broken down in detail.
You don't even have to give them a name or email to get to those details , just close the pop-up window that asks for name/email.
Use the 'show details' link to expand out each of the rate quotes it presents, then click on the 'Closing Costs' tab.

If you see a good deal, then you can email that rate quote to yourself at which point you would add your name and it looks like a Loan Estimate which Better will try to match.

My quotes improved when my LTV improved to 60% from above 60%, after we had a more accurate property value estimate.

I just checked again today, and for me the credits have dropped back to $2300+.

Today their credits jumped up high again : $2969 credit for 30yr at 2.875%.
DoctorPhysics
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DoctorPhysics »

It must be a sizzling hot market... I am slowly beating off all the lenders trying to compete for my loan. The one I have from LenderFi is pretty darn sweet as it is.

eMortgage couldn't compete
newAmerican couldn't compete

loanDepot is trying to see what they can do... but I'm noticing more of a hard and fast sales tactic from them, e.g. direct messaging, phone call, apparently I was escallated to executive resolution team after their initial offer was a no go.

Does anyone know if loanDepot is doing better than 2.875% on 20 year, no cash out refiance with no cost? Am I wasting time talking to them?
Fatusr
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 10:44 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Fatusr »

mt2k wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:30 pm
fourballs wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:38 pm Thanks to this thread we were able to shop around for a much better deal than we had expected. We currently have a ~700K 15 yr @ 3.625% for a ~2 mil house. 800+ credit score, no escrow. Here are the quotes I got (all fixed terms):

LoanDepot
15yr 2.5% ~$3k closing cost
30yr 2.875% ~$3k closing

Quicken Loans
15yr 2.25% $3k Closing
30yr 2.75% $3k closing
Current loan limit at %510k

LenderFi
15yr 2.5% $2k closing
30yr 2.875 $1k closing
30yr 2.75% $4k closing

CF Bank
15yr 2.65% $300 closing
30yr 2.875% 0 closing
30yr 2.75% $2k closing

I also have something similar from my local broker. We decided to go with LenderFi for speed. CF Bank would have been slightly better but I didn't get their quote until I already went with LenderFi. Maybe someone else here can take advantage of that. I have quotes also from Better, One True Loan, Wells Fargo, but they didn't offer anything close to what I listed above. I started making rounds on Tuesday and just two days later I'm already seeing better deals. We kept waffling over whether to do this now or to wait since some articles seem to indicate that rates might drop further as covid/economic recovery doesn't seem to be coming along well. But life circumstances might also change if things get worse so we decided to get it out of the way.
Congratulations! I think you got great rates for a $700K loan.
I would still to go to Better with the CF bank quote to get $3,500 in my pocket. They are supposed to beat it by $1,000 plus the Amex $2,500..
Better beats by $1000 only if loan less than $510k. Also, they were not able to match my LE for 2.75%. They earlier matched my other LE for 3%
fourballs
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:04 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fourballs »

Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm Go get the best offer you can get before even approaching Better. They will continue to match and beat by $1000 until you lock your rate. Do all of your comparison shopping beforehand and once you are confident you have the best deal you can get, go to Better. Once you get Better’s best rate, circle that back around to see if folks will match that then go back to Better again and see if they’ll beat it again by $1000. Once you lock in with Better they may match a better offer but don’t guarantee it, and certainly won’t beat it by $1000.
I wish I had this clear strategy in mind before I approached Better. After talking to so many people and getting all these estimates comparison shopping fatigue sets in. And Better's quote was so way off that I didn't want to circle back to them. We still did fine I think with LenderFi (30 yr @2.875%) but we gave up some cash.

Once you lock with a lender, can you still walk away? Hasn't the lender already incurred fees at this point (pulling your credit reports, etc), or at least put in some effort? Also, if rates continue to drop meaningfully say in the next week or so, can we still do anything if we are already thick in the refi process?
dacalo
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:09 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dacalo »

Question for folks who applied to LenderFi - how far in the process do you have to go before you are presented with their "lower" rates compared to their website? I just started the application process and gave them by personal info, but haven't submitted or signed any papers (disclosures etc) and their rates don't look that great. For example, I am looking at 3% 30 year for $600k loan and it requires $3.1k in points still. Would appreciate any advice.

UPDATE: I called the loan officer assigned to me, and basically stated that I am ready to refinance within next couple of days and shopping around. The offer received is 30 year 2.875% with no closing cost. Have 30 year 3.5% loan now so super happy about this. :beer
Last edited by dacalo on Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

fourballs wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:11 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm Go get the best offer you can get before even approaching Better. They will continue to match and beat by $1000 until you lock your rate. Do all of your comparison shopping beforehand and once you are confident you have the best deal you can get, go to Better. Once you get Better’s best rate, circle that back around to see if folks will match that then go back to Better again and see if they’ll beat it again by $1000. Once you lock in with Better they may match a better offer but don’t guarantee it, and certainly won’t beat it by $1000.
I wish I had this clear strategy in mind before I approached Better. After talking to so many people and getting all these estimates comparison shopping fatigue sets in. And Better's quote was so way off that I didn't want to circle back to them. We still did fine I think with LenderFi (30 yr @2.875%) but we gave up some cash.

Once you lock with a lender, can you still walk away? Hasn't the lender already incurred fees at this point (pulling your credit reports, etc), or at least put in some effort? Also, if rates continue to drop meaningfully say in the next week or so, can we still do anything if we are already thick in the refi process?
Yes you can. You can cancel the whole thing within 3 business days AFTER closing due to federal regulations and not be on the hook for items paid at closing. Of course some bridges will be burned if you opt for that.
DoctorPhysics
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DoctorPhysics »

dacalo wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:13 pm Question for folks who applied to LenderFi - how far in the process do you have to go before you are presented with their "lower" rates compared to their website? I just started the application process and gave them by personal info, but haven't submitted or signed any papers (disclosures etc) and their rates don't look that great. For example, I am looking at 3% 30 year for $600k loan and it requires $3.1k in points still. Would appreciate any advice.
My updated quote essentially came within hours after I filed the application.
C-man23
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by C-man23 »

dacalo wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:13 pm Question for folks who applied to LenderFi - how far in the process do you have to go before you are presented with their "lower" rates compared to their website? I just started the application process and gave them by personal info, but haven't submitted or signed any papers (disclosures etc) and their rates don't look that great. For example, I am looking at 3% 30 year for $600k loan and it requires $3.1k in points still. Would appreciate any advice.
The first phone call from them. The guy threw out an offer at least 0.25% lower and with no closing costs.
C-man23
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by C-man23 »

DoctorPhysics wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:30 pm It must be a sizzling hot market... I am slowly beating off all the lenders trying to compete for my loan. The one I have from LenderFi is pretty darn sweet as it is.

eMortgage couldn't compete
newAmerican couldn't compete

loanDepot is trying to see what they can do... but I'm noticing more of a hard and fast sales tactic from them, e.g. direct messaging, phone call, apparently I was escallated to executive resolution team after their initial offer was a no go.

Does anyone know if loanDepot is doing better than 2.875% on 20 year, no cash out refiance with no cost? Am I wasting time talking to them?
I got what I thought was a smoking deal from LenderFi and then sent it to LoanDepot to beat. They ended up beating it by $1,400. So I do not believe you are wasting your time. I got 2.625% with no closing costs (except escrow I believe) on a 15 year fixed no cash out refi. So your quote sounds about right for a 20 year.
dacalo
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:09 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dacalo »

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Called the loan officer and he presented 30-year 2.875% with no closing cost shortly after I posted. :beer
All_About_Benjis
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by All_About_Benjis »

asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm
All_About_Benjis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:00 pm We are refinancing our home, and I'm trying to work out whether to do a no-cost refi or pay points for a lower rate.

Situation:
Loan would be for ~$670k; LTV ~0.6. FICO 760+. Super-conforming.
We're going to be in this house forever (or let's assume so).

LenderFi is offering a no-cost at 3.0%, no points (costs ~$1600) for 2.875%, and 0.56 points ($3800 + $1600 costs) for 2.75%

Argument for the no-cost option: preserves the ability to refinance again in ~6 months if rates are lower. Right now, the spread between mortgage rates and treasuries is about 0.5 points above the long-term average. If Treasuries stay low (which seems likely given the pandemic) then mortgage rates should fall further.

Argument for paying for points: We'll be in the house for long enough to get the payoff. Only have to shop for refinance and do paperwork once. Rates may not fall further (or they may fall far enough that refinancing is worth it anyway -- e.g. if the no-cost level got down below 2.75%).

I welcome your thinking on this topic/choice. Thank you!
Quick question - are you getting these rates online or by calling? I've been on the hunt for a 3.0% with no cost to us, but LenderFi's online estimates include about $2000 in closing costs.
By calling. Rates about 0.125% (or so) less calling than they were online. Well: I filled out the online application, then they started emailing and calling me, and we got to where we are.
Thanks for the advice. I called LenderFi at around 6:00 PM today. After a quick chat, we came to an agreement on a 30-year @ 2.875% with enough credit to cover the closing costs (plus we get $150 in our pocket). E-signed the loan disclosure and will upload our documents tomorrow.

For context, we refinanced back in March to a 30-year @ 3.375% (from 4.25% in Jan 2019 when we originally closed on the home). Within a year, we've reduced our payment by >$500/month.
All_About_Benjis
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by All_About_Benjis »

C-man23 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:38 pm
dacalo wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:13 pm Question for folks who applied to LenderFi - how far in the process do you have to go before you are presented with their "lower" rates compared to their website? I just started the application process and gave them by personal info, but haven't submitted or signed any papers (disclosures etc) and their rates don't look that great. For example, I am looking at 3% 30 year for $600k loan and it requires $3.1k in points still. Would appreciate any advice.
The first phone call from them. The guy threw out an offer at least 0.25% lower and with no closing costs.
I just had the exact same experience. Online, 3.125% with no closing costs was the best offer I saw. First phone call and they get down to 2.875% with no cost.
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

It's really important to get a bunch of quotes and shop the cheapest one around to the other companies. Wash, rinse, repeat. Persistence is key, and not taking "No" for an answer. Just keep asking if they can do better or if that's the best they can do. Feel free to use lines like, "I'd love to work with you guys, but [other company]'s offer is pretty good. What can you do?" Or, "I can't leave money on the table."

I started with pretty lame offers, but LenderFi came through with very low costs. I was able to provide that to Better and they beat it by $1000. I was able to get Loan Depot to get within $800 of Better+Amex, meaning better than Better's loan estimate by itself. I took Loan Depot's offer back to Better and they beat it by another $500, over a week after I locked.

This is just like shopping for a car; get the lowest price, then shop it around.

Instead of thinking of it as you shopping for a loan, think of it as you as an auctioneer with a loan to sell. Sell it to the highest bidder. These companies are crawling over each other to get that loan.
Berean
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean »

I am applying to four different lenders to get the best refi deal. Each one requires all my crucial personal information, including Social Security number and date of birth. Should I be leery? Is there any way around it?

Should I list my wife as a co-borrower? I have not done so yet because my income is sufficient to qualify for the best loan terms, and I did not want to disclose her personal information if not necessary. But I just remembered that the deed to our house is in the name of our family living trust, and we are both on the current loan. If her name is not on the loan and I die, what happens?
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Berean wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:33 pm I am applying to four different lenders to get the best refi deal. Each one requires all my crucial personal information, including Social Security number and date of birth. Should I be leery? Is there any way around it?

Should I list my wife as a co-borrower? I have not done so yet because my income is sufficient to qualify for the best loan terms, and I did not want to disclose her personal information if not necessary. But I just remembered that the deed to our house is in the name of our family living trust, and we are both on the current loan. If her name is not on the loan and I die, what happens?
I didn't bother listing my wife, either. Didn't seem worth it to bother her with filling out forms and getting emails when I wasn't even sure if I'd get a deal worth bothering with. I figured if I got a good deal, I'd just add her after the fact.
dacalo
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:09 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dacalo »

Berean wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:33 pm I am applying to four different lenders to get the best refi deal. Each one requires all my crucial personal information, including Social Security number and date of birth. Should I be leery? Is there any way around it?

Should I list my wife as a co-borrower? I have not done so yet because my income is sufficient to qualify for the best loan terms, and I did not want to disclose her personal information if not necessary. But I just remembered that the deed to our house is in the name of our family living trust, and we are both on the current loan. If her name is not on the loan and I die, what happens?
Didn’t add wife for the loan, but she is on the title.
Bleedinggums99
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:59 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bleedinggums99 »

Brain wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:16 pm It's really important to get a bunch of quotes and shop the cheapest one around to the other companies. Wash, rinse, repeat. Persistence is key, and not taking "No" for an answer. Just keep asking if they can do better or if that's the best they can do. Feel free to use lines like, "I'd love to work with you guys, but [other company]'s offer is pretty good. What can you do?" Or, "I can't leave money on the table."

I started with pretty lame offers, but LenderFi came through with very low costs. I was able to provide that to Better and they beat it by $1000. I was able to get Loan Depot to get within $800 of Better+Amex, meaning better than Better's loan estimate by itself. I took Loan Depot's offer back to Better and they beat it by another $500, over a week after I locked.

This is just like shopping for a car; get the lowest price, then shop it around.

Instead of thinking of it as you shopping for a loan, think of it as you as an auctioneer with a loan to sell. Sell it to the highest bidder. These companies are crawling over each other to get that loan.
So everybody keeps talking about Better.com matching/beating any other offers but i have not had any success. I first brought better's initial loan estimate plus the 2500 AMEX credit to loan depot and they beat it by about 700 and then I went back to Better with that and they told me they couldn't beat Loan Depot and gave me their "best deal" which when combined with the AMEX credit was lower then loan depot but then loan depot beat that. Do I even bother trying going back to better since they already said that was their best deal?

With Loan Depot I am at:
2.25% 15-Year, 300,000 loan, 80% LTV
Out of Pocket Expense (D + E + Lender Credits) --> $27
User avatar
BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Bleedinggums99 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:11 am With Loan Depot I am at:
2.25% 15-Year, 300,000 loan, 80% LTV
Out of Pocket Expense (D + E + Lender Credits) --> $27
That looks like a great deal to me and I would jump on that.
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Bleedinggums99 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:11 am
Brain wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:16 pm It's really important to get a bunch of quotes and shop the cheapest one around to the other companies. Wash, rinse, repeat. Persistence is key, and not taking "No" for an answer. Just keep asking if they can do better or if that's the best they can do. Feel free to use lines like, "I'd love to work with you guys, but [other company]'s offer is pretty good. What can you do?" Or, "I can't leave money on the table."

I started with pretty lame offers, but LenderFi came through with very low costs. I was able to provide that to Better and they beat it by $1000. I was able to get Loan Depot to get within $800 of Better+Amex, meaning better than Better's loan estimate by itself. I took Loan Depot's offer back to Better and they beat it by another $500, over a week after I locked.

This is just like shopping for a car; get the lowest price, then shop it around.

Instead of thinking of it as you shopping for a loan, think of it as you as an auctioneer with a loan to sell. Sell it to the highest bidder. These companies are crawling over each other to get that loan.
So everybody keeps talking about Better.com matching/beating any other offers but i have not had any success. I first brought better's initial loan estimate plus the 2500 AMEX credit to loan depot and they beat it by about 700 and then I went back to Better with that and they told me they couldn't beat Loan Depot and gave me their "best deal" which when combined with the AMEX credit was lower then loan depot but then loan depot beat that. Do I even bother trying going back to better since they already said that was their best deal?

With Loan Depot I am at:
2.25% 15-Year, 300,000 loan, 80% LTV
Out of Pocket Expense (D + E + Lender Credits) --> $27
For a 2.25%, that's a fantastic price!

If Better isn't willing to play ball, it could be that you've found the best offer possible. But be sure to give them one last chance, pointing out that you are going to go with another company if they can't match/beat it. Hearing that you're leaving/not buying is a great motivator for them.
gullit18
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:15 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gullit18 »

pindevil wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:59 am
gullit18 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:35 am
pindevil wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:58 pm I didn't have an AMEX card before starting Loan Application at Better.com but I did apply for and was approved for the AMEX Blue Card right before locking my rate. I entered the last 5 digits as part of the final tasks assigned on Better.com. We'll see what happens with the $2,500 credit.


I don't have an AMEX card and I've locked in a rate with Better.com but haven't closed yet, can I still get this deal? Wouldn't this be a bad time to apply for an AMEX during the refi process?
Others have mentioned they applied for a card after locking. Just let better.com know what you are doing.

I reached out to them yesterday about applying for the card now and they advised not to apply for the AMEX at this point. Should I just not do it or should I have her contact underwriting? If you applied for the card after the application and still received the credit please let me know. This is what they said:

We do advise against opening new lines of credit as this can affect your pricing and since you don't currently have an Amex card, we can't guarantee that the statement credit would get applied unfortunately.
tuck3979
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:29 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tuck3979 »

Bleedinggums99 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:11 am
Brain wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:16 pm It's really important to get a bunch of quotes and shop the cheapest one around to the other companies. Wash, rinse, repeat. Persistence is key, and not taking "No" for an answer. Just keep asking if they can do better or if that's the best they can do. Feel free to use lines like, "I'd love to work with you guys, but [other company]'s offer is pretty good. What can you do?" Or, "I can't leave money on the table."

I started with pretty lame offers, but LenderFi came through with very low costs. I was able to provide that to Better and they beat it by $1000. I was able to get Loan Depot to get within $800 of Better+Amex, meaning better than Better's loan estimate by itself. I took Loan Depot's offer back to Better and they beat it by another $500, over a week after I locked.

This is just like shopping for a car; get the lowest price, then shop it around.

Instead of thinking of it as you shopping for a loan, think of it as you as an auctioneer with a loan to sell. Sell it to the highest bidder. These companies are crawling over each other to get that loan.
So everybody keeps talking about Better.com matching/beating any other offers but i have not had any success. I first brought better's initial loan estimate plus the 2500 AMEX credit to loan depot and they beat it by about 700 and then I went back to Better with that and they told me they couldn't beat Loan Depot and gave me their "best deal" which when combined with the AMEX credit was lower then loan depot but then loan depot beat that. Do I even bother trying going back to better since they already said that was their best deal?

With Loan Depot I am at:
2.25% 15-Year, 300,000 loan, 80% LTV
Out of Pocket Expense (D + E + Lender Credits) --> $27

My brother is closing on a 2.25% 15year next week at Better. Lender credit was $2500ish, credit went up to almost $5k for a 2.375% (which I told him to take but he is set on the 2.25%). $300k loan, 80% LTV. Thats the best I've seen personally, I was offered the same, ended up with a 30year instead. Wish I could read the future, not sure if this is as low as we'll ever see or if there's room for further drop...
pindevil
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

gullit18 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:22 am
pindevil wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:59 am
gullit18 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:35 am
pindevil wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:58 pm I didn't have an AMEX card before starting Loan Application at Better.com but I did apply for and was approved for the AMEX Blue Card right before locking my rate. I entered the last 5 digits as part of the final tasks assigned on Better.com. We'll see what happens with the $2,500 credit.


I don't have an AMEX card and I've locked in a rate with Better.com but haven't closed yet, can I still get this deal? Wouldn't this be a bad time to apply for an AMEX during the refi process?
Others have mentioned they applied for a card after locking. Just let better.com know what you are doing.

I reached out to them yesterday about applying for the card now and they advised not to apply for the AMEX at this point. Should I just not do it or should I have her contact underwriting? If you applied for the card after the application and still received the credit please let me know. This is what they said:

We do advise against opening new lines of credit as this can affect your pricing and since you don't currently have an Amex card, we can't guarantee that the statement credit would get applied unfortunately.
I am guessing they will look at your overall credit profile. Personally, adding one credit card for me was not a big deal. I applied for the AMEX card after starting the application with better.com but before locking a rate. They did ask for a statement on this new account. Of course there was no statement yet so I sent them a screenshot of the zero balance.

I have not received the $2,500 credit yet. Better.com sent me an email saying it will take 8-12 weeks to see the credit.
orklc
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:35 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by orklc »

Today looks like it could be a good day to get rates locked. The fannie mae wholesale prices this morning are both lower:

https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/impo ... year-fixed
https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/impo ... year-fixed
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

pindevil wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:03 am
gullit18 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:22 am
pindevil wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:59 am
gullit18 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:35 am
pindevil wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:58 pm I didn't have an AMEX card before starting Loan Application at Better.com but I did apply for and was approved for the AMEX Blue Card right before locking my rate. I entered the last 5 digits as part of the final tasks assigned on Better.com. We'll see what happens with the $2,500 credit.


I don't have an AMEX card and I've locked in a rate with Better.com but haven't closed yet, can I still get this deal? Wouldn't this be a bad time to apply for an AMEX during the refi process?
Others have mentioned they applied for a card after locking. Just let better.com know what you are doing.

I reached out to them yesterday about applying for the card now and they advised not to apply for the AMEX at this point. Should I just not do it or should I have her contact underwriting? If you applied for the card after the application and still received the credit please let me know. This is what they said:

We do advise against opening new lines of credit as this can affect your pricing and since you don't currently have an Amex card, we can't guarantee that the statement credit would get applied unfortunately.
I am guessing they will look at your overall credit profile. Personally, adding one credit card for me was not a big deal. I applied for the AMEX card after starting the application with better.com but before locking a rate. They did ask for a statement on this new account. Of course there was no statement yet so I sent them a screenshot of the zero balance.

I have not received the $2,500 credit yet. Better.com sent me an email saying it will take 8-12 weeks to see the credit.
I didn't have a card until after I applied. I mentioned it to the processor and she said a bunch of people did that. Better has subsequently asked me for explanations for all the mortgage inquiries on my credit report, but they haven't mentioned the Amex inquiry. Maybe because I only had two cards to start with and one of the few faults the reporting agencies could think of was that I didn't have a high enough credit limit or enough cards.
Bleedinggums99
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:59 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bleedinggums99 »

Brain wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:03 am
Bleedinggums99 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:11 am
Brain wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:16 pm It's really important to get a bunch of quotes and shop the cheapest one around to the other companies. Wash, rinse, repeat. Persistence is key, and not taking "No" for an answer. Just keep asking if they can do better or if that's the best they can do. Feel free to use lines like, "I'd love to work with you guys, but [other company]'s offer is pretty good. What can you do?" Or, "I can't leave money on the table."

I started with pretty lame offers, but LenderFi came through with very low costs. I was able to provide that to Better and they beat it by $1000. I was able to get Loan Depot to get within $800 of Better+Amex, meaning better than Better's loan estimate by itself. I took Loan Depot's offer back to Better and they beat it by another $500, over a week after I locked.

This is just like shopping for a car; get the lowest price, then shop it around.

Instead of thinking of it as you shopping for a loan, think of it as you as an auctioneer with a loan to sell. Sell it to the highest bidder. These companies are crawling over each other to get that loan.
So everybody keeps talking about Better.com matching/beating any other offers but i have not had any success. I first brought better's initial loan estimate plus the 2500 AMEX credit to loan depot and they beat it by about 700 and then I went back to Better with that and they told me they couldn't beat Loan Depot and gave me their "best deal" which when combined with the AMEX credit was lower then loan depot but then loan depot beat that. Do I even bother trying going back to better since they already said that was their best deal?

With Loan Depot I am at:
2.25% 15-Year, 300,000 loan, 80% LTV
Out of Pocket Expense (D + E + Lender Credits) --> $27
For a 2.25%, that's a fantastic price!

If Better isn't willing to play ball, it could be that you've found the best offer possible. But be sure to give them one last chance, pointing out that you are going to go with another company if they can't match/beat it. Hearing that you're leaving/not buying is a great motivator for them.
Yup, went back to better and they said they couldn't compete, even with the amex 2,500 credit it would have been over 600 to close.
schleprock117
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by schleprock117 »

Just closed yesterday
2.875% Fixed, 20 year. No closing cost, Locked on 06/11
Balance - $307,000
LTV = 43.86%
LenderFi
Appraisal Waived
Smooth Process

Thanks for all the help!
gullit18
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:15 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gullit18 »

Brain wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:29 am
pindevil wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:03 am
gullit18 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:22 am
pindevil wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:59 am
gullit18 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:35 am

I don't have an AMEX card and I've locked in a rate with Better.com but haven't closed yet, can I still get this deal? Wouldn't this be a bad time to apply for an AMEX during the refi process?
Others have mentioned they applied for a card after locking. Just let better.com know what you are doing.

I reached out to them yesterday about applying for the card now and they advised not to apply for the AMEX at this point. Should I just not do it or should I have her contact underwriting? If you applied for the card after the application and still received the credit please let me know. This is what they said:

We do advise against opening new lines of credit as this can affect your pricing and since you don't currently have an Amex card, we can't guarantee that the statement credit would get applied unfortunately.
I am guessing they will look at your overall credit profile. Personally, adding one credit card for me was not a big deal. I applied for the AMEX card after starting the application with better.com but before locking a rate. They did ask for a statement on this new account. Of course there was no statement yet so I sent them a screenshot of the zero balance.

I have not received the $2,500 credit yet. Better.com sent me an email saying it will take 8-12 weeks to see the credit.
I didn't have a card until after I applied. I mentioned it to the processor and she said a bunch of people did that. Better has subsequently asked me for explanations for all the mortgage inquiries on my credit report, but they haven't mentioned the Amex inquiry. Maybe because I only had two cards to start with and one of the few faults the reporting agencies could think of was that I didn't have a high enough credit limit or enough cards.
Thank you for the help gentlemen. Has anyone received the credit when they applied for the card after starting the application? Below it states it's only offered to those that it was marketed to, is that not true?

The offer is only available to those borrowers who have been marketed to directly by American Express, and those who have not received the offer on their Amex portal or via email are not eligible.
mx711yam
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:51 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mx711yam »

LenderFi just quoted me 7k to close, they say because I'm in Texas. Seems insane to me, it's for a primary residence 30 year at 2.75.

Gonna see what better can do.
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

frankandbeans wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:31 pm Closed today on an investment property refinance with Northpointe at 2.875/15y/0pts. About $3k closing costs; rolled everything in and took the max $2k cash out. It took about 70 days to close; process was slow but hassle-free. My thanks to the BH community for bringing Northpointe to my attention--nobody else has come within 0.25% of their rate/costs for this investment property refinance since I started looking.

There was one hiccup at the end that leads to this warning: carefully compare your closing disclosure with your loan estimate. The closing disclosure reflected transfer taxes about $300 higher than quoted on the loan estimate. The CFPB regs don’t allow transfer taxes to increase from the LE except in certain limited circumstances. I flagged the issue, citing the applicable reg, and they fixed it (as a “courtesy,” since nobody ever admits a violation). This ended up pushing closing back by another five days, but obviously worth the $300.

So just a reminder to me and everyone else—examine your closing disclosure closely and compare it side-by-side with the LE. Some parts can increase, some can increase by 10 percent, and some can’t increase at all.
This is great advice! Do you know the "certain limited circumstances" where the transfer taxes can increase or can you point me to the reg so I can read up? My initial loan estimate showed $328 in Section E for Recording Fees and Other Taxes". My latest loan estimate is now showing $570. Would the potential increase be due to a HELOC that I am having them subordinate? Could there be a fee to do that which is now in this section? If so, is that one of the limited circumstances for allowing a change?

A few other things have changed since the original estimate, including the addition of a $110 charge in Section C for "Title-Deed Preparation". I also have been able to bump the Lender Credit by $2,000 due to some price shopping. But was wondering if I should ask them to move the $570 back to $328. Thanks!
tbone555
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

mx711yam wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm LenderFi just quoted me 7k to close, they say because I'm in Texas. Seems insane to me, it's for a primary residence 30 year at 2.75.

Gonna see what better can do.
LoanFlight is offering me 2.75% with only title fees for costs. I am locked at 3% with Better so not sure what my next move is...
frankandbeans
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:55 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans »

ChiKid24 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:31 pm
This is great advice! Do you know the "certain limited circumstances" where the transfer taxes can increase or can you point me to the reg so I can read up? My initial loan estimate showed $328 in Section E for Recording Fees and Other Taxes". My latest loan estimate is now showing $570. Would the potential increase be due to a HELOC that I am having them subordinate? Could there be a fee to do that which is now in this section? If so, is that one of the limited circumstances for allowing a change?

A few other things have changed since the original estimate, including the addition of a $110 charge in Section C for "Title-Deed Preparation". I also have been able to bump the Lender Credit by $2,000 due to some price shopping. But was wondering if I should ask them to move the $570 back to $328. Thanks!
The reg, with CFPB's commentary, is here, at section 1026.19(e)(3)(i):

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/policy- ... s/1026/19/

The regulatory term is a "change in circumstances." Yes, a product change or additional previously unknown factor, such as subordination of a HELOC, may constitute a qualifying change in circumstances. So if they weren't aware of the subordination when they issued the first LE, they are required to reissue the LE to account for it. Sounds like that's what they've done in your case, so there may not be much you can do. If they had failed to reissue the LE and instead gone straight to a closing disclosure that had the increased amount, that would more likely be a problem for them.

Hope that's helpful.
mx711yam
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:51 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mx711yam »

tbone555 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:33 pm
mx711yam wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm LenderFi just quoted me 7k to close, they say because I'm in Texas. Seems insane to me, it's for a primary residence 30 year at 2.75.

Gonna see what better can do.
LoanFlight is offering me 2.75% with only title fees for costs. I am locked at 3% with Better so not sure what my next move is...
I haven't checked them thanks for the pointers!
ChiKid24
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

frankandbeans wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:48 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:31 pm
This is great advice! Do you know the "certain limited circumstances" where the transfer taxes can increase or can you point me to the reg so I can read up? My initial loan estimate showed $328 in Section E for Recording Fees and Other Taxes". My latest loan estimate is now showing $570. Would the potential increase be due to a HELOC that I am having them subordinate? Could there be a fee to do that which is now in this section? If so, is that one of the limited circumstances for allowing a change?

A few other things have changed since the original estimate, including the addition of a $110 charge in Section C for "Title-Deed Preparation". I also have been able to bump the Lender Credit by $2,000 due to some price shopping. But was wondering if I should ask them to move the $570 back to $328. Thanks!
The reg, with CFPB's commentary, is here, at section 1026.19(e)(3)(i):

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/policy- ... s/1026/19/

The regulatory term is a "change in circumstances." Yes, a product change or additional previously unknown factor, such as subordination of a HELOC, may constitute a qualifying change in circumstances. So if they weren't aware of the subordination when they issued the first LE, they are required to reissue the LE to account for it. Sounds like that's what they've done in your case, so there may not be much you can do. If they had failed to reissue the LE and instead gone straight to a closing disclosure that had the increased amount, that would more likely be a problem for them.

Hope that's helpful.
Very. Thank you!
dave8228
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 8:09 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dave8228 »

schleprock117 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:15 am Just closed yesterday
2.875% Fixed, 20 year. No closing cost, Locked on 06/11
Balance - $307,000
LTV = 43.86%
LenderFi
Appraisal Waived
Smooth Process

Thanks for all the help!
Wow, you closed in 15 days? That's great! I just locked a 2.75% 30 year with them yesterday. So based on your timeline, I'm looking at closing possibly in mid-July, excellent.

Mine is also no closing costs if you add in lender credits, but I do have to come to the closing table with prepaid interest and initial escrow funds, I think that's normal though, right? The escrow from my current lender should be refunded to me within 45 days, right? (this is my first refi)
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