Refinance Mega Thread

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just_me
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by just_me »

Better has offered
15-year CONV
$150.381
2.875% rate
$5,161 cash to close
A.$3472 pts
B.$614
C.$835
D-F etc
3.275% APR
23.345% TIP
Amex

Cashout to pay off/consolidate a HELOC and 1st mortgage
Current mortgage is a 25-year loan
$120,797
4.25%
10 years left

Heloc
$28,381
3.25%
5-7 years left (paying extra $200 per month)

I would make extra payments on the new loan to pay it off in 8-10 years but the closing costs seem high.
tingles
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:08 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tingles »

Just closed today - refinanced to 2.5%, 15 years, conventional loan. Many thanks to Bogleheads for introducing me to Lenderfi. I applied through Lenderfi and was conditionally approved for 2.5%. I then took that rate to my existing lender and asked them to beat it. They were willing to match the rate - their closing costs were slightly higher, but we decided to go with our existing lender for ease of completing the refinance process and because they also service the loan. They also agreed to waive the appraisal. From application to closing, it took less than 3 weeks!
pindevil
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

Just finished refinance with Better mortgage. Rate locked June 2nd and Loan Funded June 23rd. Smoothest refinance I've ever done.

Rate 2.5%
Term 15yr
A+B+C = $1,300
Loan Amount 200K

I didn't have an AMEX card before starting Loan Application at Better.com but I did apply for and was approved for the AMEX Blue Card right before locking my rate. I entered the last 5 digits as part of the final tasks assigned on Better.com. We'll see what happens with the $2,500 credit.
kmanjir
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kmanjir »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:11 pm
kmanjir wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:17 pm Hi Everyone - Looking for some advice and guidance on whether it is worth for me to go through the hassle/paperwork of a refinance given the current rates I am seeing, or wait it out a bit further to see if rates drop further.
...
However, I am having trouble evaluating the below options against my current situation to see how much of a benefit/savings it would be and whether it is worth it to go through the process and paperwork and angst that goes along with these transactions.

Is there a comparison calculator out there where I can plug these numbers in (including the fact that I started doing additional payments on my mortgage 5 years into the mortgage?) and also see what the amortization math and interest savings look like?
...
Original Loan - 30 Years Fixed, started in 2014

Current Value of Mortgage (as of June 2020) - 285K
APR - 4%
Current Mortgage Payment (P+I) - 1565
Additional Principal Payment - $1000 / month, started in July 2019

New Loan Options

(2) 15 Year Fixed
Loan Value - 285000
Year of Origination - 2020
APR - 2.875%
Additional Principal Payment = (Current Mortgage Payment + $1000/month) - New Mortgage Payment = 2565-1950 = 615
Closing Costs - Up to 2000
Yes. Take that 15 year and enjoy. Keep looking for better though as you go through the process for a lower rate with low/no closing costs.

Assuming $285k outstanding today, $2565 paid monthly, I see around $72k in interest paid for the rest of the loan.
For 2.875% w/ $2565 paid monthly, I see around $66k in interest paid for the rest of the loan + $2k closing costs.

So you are ahead $4k with the 15-year. Get 2.625% and no closing costs, and things will look even better.

I use this Excel spreadsheet to run my numbers and make adjustments where I want to. It's very flexible.
Thank you very much, Brandon, for the link to that spreadsheet - it has been exactly the thing I was looking for to compare rates and costs!

Following up, I decided to shop for the 15-year fixed, and so far, Northpointe has provided the best quotes. Sharing the two below that are most attractive to me from a no/low-cost refinance perspective. Would like to get your (and others') feedback on whether one is better than the other as well gut-check my pros/cons thought process.

On a side note, I was slightly surprised that I didn't get a wider range of quotes at a lower interest rate that would be low/no-cost refi given the current rates and my good credit score. Sadly, since I do not have an Amex card, I wasn't able to look into the Better/2500 Amex credit offer.

NorthPointe Quote 1 (2.875% interest rate)

A: 1195
B: 68.75
C: 1055
D: 2318.75
E: 128.5
F: 450.42
G: 4287.5
I: 4866.42
J: 4655.63

Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$82.29 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4737.92
Total out of pocket = -$82.29 + $4737.92 = $4655.63 (same as J, cross-checked)


NorthPointe Quote 2 (3% interest rate)

A: 1195
B: 68.75
C: 1055
D: 2318.75
E: 128.5
F: 490
G: 4287.5
I: 4906
J: 3433.08

Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$1344.42 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4777.5
Total out of pocket = -$1344.42 + $4777.5 = $3433.08 (same as J, cross-checked)


Pros/Cons of Quote 2 (3%) versus Quote 1 (2.875%):
1. Pro - Lower amount of cash needed to be brought to closing for Quote 2, as higher credits will be applied against prepaids + escrow
2. Pro - Quote 2 is more truly a 'no-cost' refi, so will really not be out of pocket if I need to do another refinance sooner rather than later should rates drop further (correct thinking?)
3. Con - More interest to be paid over the term of the loan for Quote 2 (obviously)
4. Comment/Question -
a. I currently have a 30 year fixed at 4%, where I have started paying an additional $1000 / month about 5 years into that term.
b. My plan is to maintain the same level of total monthly payments with the new 15 year fixed.
c. Running the numbers, and taking into account all closing costs, it tells me that there would be a <~$2K savings between the two rates by the time I finish paying off the loan about 10-11 years into the 15-year term.
d. So, with that low of a savings differential over the course of 10-11 years, I might as well go for the 3% rate and get more credits applied upfront (correct way of thinking about this?)

Thank You!
limeyx
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by limeyx »

tingles wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:16 pm Just closed today - refinanced to 2.5%, 15 years, conventional loan. Many thanks to Bogleheads for introducing me to Lenderfi. I applied through Lenderfi and was conditionally approved for 2.5%. I then took that rate to my existing lender and asked them to beat it. They were willing to match the rate - their closing costs were slightly higher, but we decided to go with our existing lender for ease of completing the refinance process and because they also service the loan. They also agreed to waive the appraisal. From application to closing, it took less than 3 weeks!
Do you mind saying what closing costs were approx ? We have a 20 yr fixed at 3.25% and Rocket (our current lender) wanted around $7-8K on a current balance of $260K to refinance. All the options with higher rates ended up increasing our loan starting balance to around $270K

I played with tons of options and they all looked worse than just sticking w/what we have
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BrandonBogle
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

kmanjir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:57 pm Thank you very much, Brandon, for the link to that spreadsheet - it has been exactly the thing I was looking for to compare rates and costs!

Following up, I decided to shop for the 15-year fixed, and so far, Northpointe has provided the best quotes. Sharing the two below that are most attractive to me from a no/low-cost refinance perspective. Would like to get your (and others') feedback on whether one is better than the other as well gut-check my pros/cons thought process.

On a side note, I was slightly surprised that I didn't get a wider range of quotes at a lower interest rate that would be low/no-cost refi given the current rates and my good credit score. Sadly, since I do not have an Amex card, I wasn't able to look into the Better/2500 Amex credit offer.

NorthPointe Quote 1 (2.875% interest rate)
...
Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$82.29 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4737.92
Total out of pocket = -$82.29 + $4737.92 = $4655.63 (same as J, cross-checked)

NorthPointe Quote 2 (3% interest rate)
...
Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$1344.42 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4777.5
Total out of pocket = -$1344.42 + $4777.5 = $3433.08 (same as J, cross-checked)

Pros/Cons of Quote 2 (3%) versus Quote 1 (2.875%):
...
c. Running the numbers, and taking into account all closing costs, it tells me that there would be a <~$2K savings between the two rates by the time I finish paying off the loan about 10-11 years into the 15-year term.
d. So, with that low of a savings differential over the course of 10-11 years, I might as well go for the 3% rate and get more credits applied upfront (correct way of thinking about this?)

Thank You!
My pleasure kmanjir! I'm glad you are seeing some good offers and effectively knocked off around $2k from the prior quote you got. You cannot go wrong with both and at a $2k difference over the term of the loan, whatever works best for you know is a good enough decision. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Especially since you will be paying ahead and you never know, you may not stay in the house until the mortgage ends, you might as well do what you can integrate into your finances best.

Similar to when I comment on a "pay off my home early" threads, once you get down to small differences in your overall net worth, do what feels best, regardless of if it may mathematically better one way or the other. The same goes if someone has a preference for a Vanguard Mutual Fund vs. its ETF. Once you are getting a low-cost Vanguard fund, whatever you like better is worth a small cost difference.

Great job! When is your estimated closing?
QNikki
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:28 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by QNikki »

Longtime lurker, de-lurking to add my data point since this thread has been incredibly helpful to us!
  • Refinance with Better.com-quoted and locked 6/5; first contact 6/2, closed 6/23
  • $170,000 (no cash out and no escrow) 15 yr @ 2.75% on home worth $401,000
  • Credit scores: 820+ both
I contacted LenderFi, Better.com and Northpointe based on information in this thread. Better was the most responsive at first--they called within about 15 minutes of me submitting my info. After a hard sell, I locked with Better (because at that point I didn't know better) with appraisal promised to refund and A+B+C=$2765 (without appraisal) for 2.75% with escrow. I was pretty happy with this since I was doing the AMEX offer and plan to stay in this home for a few years so went ahead and paid the $550 appraisal which they said would be "refunded at closing." On 6/8 I received the LE from LenderFi which came in at A+B+C=$2574 with appraisal waived. While points were higher from LenderFi, A+B+C was closer to the AMEX amount so I sent this on to Better. The not very nice processing expert sent a very curt email chastising me because the LEs weren't apples to apples since I had not locked with LenderFi. I told her that was absurd that they wanted me to lock with other people when it wasn't listed in their guarantee. She went radio silent after that so I moved over to LenderFi. Tip for those not getting a response from Better--sign up for a call using the "My Team" tab on the website.

After a few days Better.com came back with A+B+C=$2525 :(...said the guarantee with the beat by $1000 doesn't apply because that is BEFORE lock...nonsense. And all the while, crickets from Northpointe after many emails!

Read on this thread about folks getting no-escrow loans so reached out to LenderFi to update my file to see what that would cost. LenderFI came with A+B+C=$1715 with appraisal waived and NO escrow! So I locked with them. I went back to Better.com that same day, bypassed the processing expert and went back to the very nice mortgage expert person who was able to update my LE in Better to include no escrow--my A+B+C jumped to $3275 with NO escrow but I wasn't panicking because I had the LenderFi in my back pocket. I waited patiently for LenderFi to send me the new locked LE next day, and then promptly emailed that to the Better agent and scheduled a call with her for the next day. Better came back that same night with A+B+C=$1377 and NO escrow (down from $3275). Again, tip: someone somewhere upstream had mentioned that their agent said they couldn't price match after lock but mine did. Note that we finally got this new figure $1377 on 6/16. After what seemed like a redundant number of tasks in the portal, we closed today at 1:30!

So a few tips from a novice:
  • You have to be bullish with this if you want it--it was annoying to keep moving between lenders but I was determined. For those of you who are saying that Better isn't responding, jump on the portal and schedule a call directly
  • Someone made a comment up thread about not feeling badly about moving between lenders for negotiations and I had to take this to heart and remove the emotion--this was purely business
  • About the appraisal cost: there was task the day before closing stating that the $550 was being refunded to my original payment method (my AMEX) and to expect it in a few days. I was expecting a check or something but that's not how mine was put through
  • I did not originally go through the AMEX link (I found it later in the thread), but as soon as I found it, I spoke to the mortgage expert to have it linked to my account (had to give the last 5 digits), and the day before closing there was a set of tasks asking again for the info and cautioning that the name or email must match with AMEX
So, it was by no means easy working with Better.com but it's done and we couldn't be happier.

Thanks again everyone for sharing your knowledge! We would have stuck with our 30 year 3.875% loan with 24 years left otherwise!

Oh by the way, still now word from Northpointe.
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BrandonBogle
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

If only LenderFi, Northpointe, and Better paid referral bonuses to Bogleheads who ultimately close from them, we could fund this site for years!
stanford73
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by stanford73 »

I'm reading this thread and thinking the refi DH and I are doing is not the best deal we could get. Currently, we have 15 years left on a 20 year mortgage at 3.9%. House is valued at $1million. My FICO is 800; DH's is 690, so they're using DH FICO.

We are scheduled to close this week. (Hope it's not too late to make a change...) Could someone please weigh in on these numbers? Our closing costs seem very high. Thanks very much!

Loan Depot 30 year fixed Refi

Loan amount 437,000
Interest rate 3.125
Closing costs 5,437.26
Loan Costs
-Origination Fee (A) 1595.00
-Other (B) 1412.31
-Total Loan Cost(D) 3007.31

Total Other Costs 3649.18 (E,F,G,H)

Total Closing Costs (Borrower Paid) 5437.26 ($6636.13 minus Lender Credit 1219.23)

Payoffs
- Mortgage $343,350.00
- Heloc 81,450.00
ChiKid24
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

stanford73 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:23 am I'm reading this thread and thinking the refi DH and I are doing is not the best deal we could get. Currently, we have 15 years left on a 20 year mortgage at 3.9%. House is valued at $1million. My FICO is 800; DH's is 690, so they're using DH FICO.

We are scheduled to close this week. (Hope it's not too late to make a change...) Could someone please weigh in on these numbers? Our closing costs seem very high. Thanks very much!

Loan Depot 30 year fixed Refi

Loan amount 437,000
Interest rate 3.125
Closing costs 5,437.26
Loan Costs
-Origination Fee (A) 1595.00
-Other (B) 1412.31
-Total Loan Cost(D) 3007.31

Total Other Costs 3649.18 (E,F,G,H)

Total Closing Costs (Borrower Paid) 5437.26 ($6636.13 minus Lender Credit 1219.23)

Payoffs
- Mortgage $343,350.00
- Heloc 81,450.00
Something looks wrong on this. If I add up your mortgage and Heloc I get $424,700. Throw in the closing costs of $5,437 and you get just over $430,000. Why is your loan $437,000? Are you taking $7k cash out? If so, perhaps that is what is driving the slightly less favorable terms.
dsmil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dsmil »

stanford73 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:23 am I'm reading this thread and thinking the refi DH and I are doing is not the best deal we could get. Currently, we have 15 years left on a 20 year mortgage at 3.9%. House is valued at $1million. My FICO is 800; DH's is 690, so they're using DH FICO.

We are scheduled to close this week. (Hope it's not too late to make a change...) Could someone please weigh in on these numbers? Our closing costs seem very high. Thanks very much!

Loan Depot 30 year fixed Refi

Loan amount 437,000
Interest rate 3.125
Closing costs 5,437.26
Loan Costs
-Origination Fee (A) 1595.00
-Other (B) 1412.31
-Total Loan Cost(D) 3007.31

Total Other Costs 3649.18 (E,F,G,H)

Total Closing Costs (Borrower Paid) 5437.26 ($6636.13 minus Lender Credit 1219.23)

Payoffs
- Mortgage $343,350.00
- Heloc 81,450.00
Are you including title in B? Normally that would be C. E,F,G, and H can usually be ignored, and you'll receive a refund of your current escrow account to offset much of that. I'm guessing that the lender fees are the $1595 - $1,219 = $376. I locked on 6/12 and the 2.75% rate would have been close to your lender costs, but my FICO is higher. I shopped around with better.com and keystone funding. I didn't include my spouse this time around because my FICO is higher and she doesn't have an income. Is that a possibility for you?
tingles
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:08 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tingles »

limeyx wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:01 pm
tingles wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:16 pm Just closed today - refinanced to 2.5%, 15 years, conventional loan. Many thanks to Bogleheads for introducing me to Lenderfi. I applied through Lenderfi and was conditionally approved for 2.5%. I then took that rate to my existing lender and asked them to beat it. They were willing to match the rate - their closing costs were slightly higher, but we decided to go with our existing lender for ease of completing the refinance process and because they also service the loan. They also agreed to waive the appraisal. From application to closing, it took less than 3 weeks!
Do you mind saying what closing costs were approx ? We have a 20 yr fixed at 3.25% and Rocket (our current lender) wanted around $7-8K on a current balance of $260K to refinance. All the options with higher rates ended up increasing our loan starting balance to around $270K

I played with tons of options and they all looked worse than just sticking w/what we have
We were 4 years in on a mortgage of 3.75%, 30 years, with 390k left on principal balance. Lenderfi offered 2.5%, 15 years for closing costs of $2100 after a $600 lender credit. My lender offered 2.5%, 15 years, with closing costs of $3300 after a $800 lender credit. It was a $1200 difference... but the simplicity of familiarity, and extremely fast response times from my current broker (within 30 mins) made it worth it. When I originally applied through Lenderfi, I sent a message to the broker, and it took them more than 24 hours to call me. That, and reading about bogleheads' experience not knowing who was servicing the loan, I decided that it wasn't worth it.
lcdx22
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lcdx22 »

Closed today with Better.com. Everything went extremely smooth.

15 year
2.5%
Total cost = $226 (A+B+C $1487 less $1261 in lender credits)
Rate locked - June 1
Closed - June 22
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:55 am E,F,G, and H can usually be ignored, and you'll receive a refund of your current escrow account to offset much of that.
Just a note that E should not be ignored. If one doesn’t refinance, F and G costs will still be incurred, but E won’t. So E is a cost of a refinance. While in many places it may be a small amount (for me in NC, it was $64), in some places it can be much larger (in NY it will be in the thousands). That can make a significant different in calculations about whether to refi or not.
stanford73
Posts: 136
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by stanford73 »

ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:23 am
stanford73 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:23 am I'm reading this thread and thinking the refi DH and I are doing is not the best deal we could get. Currently, we have 15 years left on a 20 year mortgage at 3.9%. House is valued at $1million. My FICO is 800; DH's is 690, so they're using DH FICO.

We are scheduled to close this week. (Hope it's not too late to make a change...) Could someone please weigh in on these numbers? Our closing costs seem very high. Thanks very much!

Loan Depot 30 year fixed Refi

Loan amount 437,000
Interest rate 3.125
Closing costs 5,437.26
Loan Costs
-Origination Fee (A) 1595.00
-Other (B) 1412.31
-Total Loan Cost(D) 3007.31

Total Other Costs 3649.18 (E,F,G,H)

Total Closing Costs (Borrower Paid) 5437.26 ($6636.13 minus Lender Credit 1219.23)

Payoffs
- Mortgage $343,350.00
- Heloc 81,450.00
Something looks wrong on this. If I add up your mortgage and Heloc I get $424,700. Throw in the closing costs of $5,437 and you get just over $430,000. Why is your loan $437,000? Are you taking $7k cash out? If so, perhaps that is what is driving the slightly less favorable terms.
Sorry, yes, $6783.10 cash out.
stanford73
Posts: 136
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by stanford73 »

dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:55 am
stanford73 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:23 am I'm reading this thread and thinking the refi DH and I are doing is not the best deal we could get. Currently, we have 15 years left on a 20 year mortgage at 3.9%. House is valued at $1million. My FICO is 800; DH's is 690, so they're using DH FICO.

We are scheduled to close this week. (Hope it's not too late to make a change...) Could someone please weigh in on these numbers? Our closing costs seem very high. Thanks very much!

Loan Depot 30 year fixed Refi

Loan amount 437,000
Interest rate 3.125
Closing costs 5,437.26
Loan Costs
-Origination Fee (A) 1595.00
-Other (B) 1412.31
-Total Loan Cost(D) 3007.31

Total Other Costs 3649.18 (E,F,G,H)

Total Closing Costs (Borrower Paid) 5437.26 ($6636.13 minus Lender Credit 1219.23)

Payoffs
- Mortgage $343,350.00
- Heloc 81,450.00
Are you including title in B? Normally that would be C. E,F,G, and H can usually be ignored, and you'll receive a refund of your current escrow account to offset much of that. I'm guessing that the lender fees are the $1595 - $1,219 = $376. I locked on 6/12 and the 2.75% rate would have been close to your lender costs, but my FICO is higher. I shopped around with better.com and keystone funding. I didn't include my spouse this time around because my FICO is higher and she doesn't have an income. Is that a possibility for you?
Yes, title is included in B. And, now I see what you're saying & didn't understand before--E,F,G,H is escrow and will be offset. Lender fees are $1595 - $1,219=$376. On the first loan estimate from Loan Depot, closing costs were $9,609 versus $5,437 in final.

We are both self-employed, but my DH is the higher earner, so that's why they're using his FICO. I'm not on the mortgage this time around.
stanford73
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by stanford73 »

Sorry, duplicate.
oktwindad
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:29 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by oktwindad »

I just locked in a 2.5% 30 year 15/15 Arm - 0 Points - loan amount 260K. We'll have about $4400 in closing cost that are being rolled in.

Going from a 30 year 3.875% (24 years left) to 2.5%. We'll continue to pay the same amount and have it paid off in 15 years. Likely i'll just get tired of having a mortgage and write a check and be done with it in 5-7 years.

I know ARM so scary...but we have enough not to have a mortgage and the most it could go up is to our previous payment. They also give us 240 days notice of the one time interest rate change.
Brain
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Jags4186 wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:48 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:32 pm
njdealguy wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:54 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:02 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:36 am I don’t know what to do but I feel like I need to make a decision today because I’m starting to get happy feet.

I was all set to close on a refinance when I decided to try better. With the AMEX promo they came in significantly better than my first option.

I went back to first option and they originally didn’t match, and then I told them I was cancelling the closing and then they beat better w/ amex promo by $200. He asked me to let him know by end of day what I wanted to do last Friday. I went back to better to see if they’d match. They said they don’t match after rate lock but they’d see what they can do. Now I’ve emailed them twice to follow up and haven’t heard back.

I just want to finish up. I’m holding out that better will match and I’ll still get the $2500 but I’m kind of annoyed they haven’t responded and I feel bad leaving the other guy hanging.

All the work has been done on both loans—appraisal/approvals/etc. I just need to close.
I'm kinda in the same boat. I was moving along with Better, but Loan Depot came back within $800 of Better+Amex, so I took their offer back to Better and haven't heard back in almost a week. And then on Friday, my current lender said they could beat Better+Amex, but I'm waiting for the loan estimate. I'm also waiting on LenderFi to see if they can match or beat Better+Amex. But nobody is responding, at Better or other other places. I know they're busy, but come on...
Seems to me they might be kind of choking at this point where doesn't really want to go down further on the matching but isn't yet letting you know either. Something similar happened with a coworker also refinancing with Better and it seems to be harder to play them once have initially locked the rate.
I’m actually at my wits end here. I emailed Better twice about matching the new loan and never heard back. I emailed the broker and said I’d go with him. I receive an email from Better at 10:20pm saying they should be able to match the loan tomorrow and provide me with an updated estimate plus get me the $2500 from AMEX.

I just want it to end but $2500 is $2500. Also I feel really badly about stringing the broker along.
Better has now come back with the following:

30 year fixed
2.875%
$3,469 Lender credit
$2,500 AMEX credit
A+B+C = $2101

I feel like a jerk but...back to the original broker to tell him that it’s off again.
Good job. That's a great deal!

LenderFi and my current lender both dropped out of the race, so now it's just trying to get Better to beat/match Loan Depot's offer. Even if they don't, I'm still in good shape, but if they can even match the Loan Depot offer, that'll be an extra $1,500 in my pocket.

I was still having trouble getting Better to respond, though. I ended up calling my processing expert again yesterday and complained to the receptionist that I've tried contacting her by phone and email and no response. So he said he'd ping her and her manager. Sure enough, she emailed me back a few hours later.

And for the person who said, "just schedule a call via the "teams" page", my processing expert's schedule is 100% booked. No available slots. I wasn't sure if it was a software error or a ploy to avoid taking calls while making it look like you do. The receptionist seemed surprised she was thoroughly booked, so maybe she's just super super busy.
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

just_me wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:03 pm Better has offered
15-year CONV
$150.381
2.875% rate
$5,161 cash to close
A.$3472 pts
B.$614
C.$835
D-F etc
3.275% APR
23.345% TIP
Amex

Cashout to pay off/consolidate a HELOC and 1st mortgage
Current mortgage is a 25-year loan
$120,797
4.25%
10 years left

Heloc
$28,381
3.25%
5-7 years left (paying extra $200 per month)

I would make extra payments on the new loan to pay it off in 8-10 years but the closing costs seem high.
I'm not sure how much more a cash-out refi costs, but $3,472 in points for a 2.875% 15y is ridiculous. 2.875% should get you a credit!

As many others have said in this thread, Better only seems willing to offer decent deals when presented a competitor's loan estimate. Shop around and get a better deal, then have Better beat it.
Jags4186
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Brain wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:48 am
Jags4186 wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:48 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:32 pm
njdealguy wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:54 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:02 pm

I'm kinda in the same boat. I was moving along with Better, but Loan Depot came back within $800 of Better+Amex, so I took their offer back to Better and haven't heard back in almost a week. And then on Friday, my current lender said they could beat Better+Amex, but I'm waiting for the loan estimate. I'm also waiting on LenderFi to see if they can match or beat Better+Amex. But nobody is responding, at Better or other other places. I know they're busy, but come on...
Seems to me they might be kind of choking at this point where doesn't really want to go down further on the matching but isn't yet letting you know either. Something similar happened with a coworker also refinancing with Better and it seems to be harder to play them once have initially locked the rate.
I’m actually at my wits end here. I emailed Better twice about matching the new loan and never heard back. I emailed the broker and said I’d go with him. I receive an email from Better at 10:20pm saying they should be able to match the loan tomorrow and provide me with an updated estimate plus get me the $2500 from AMEX.

I just want it to end but $2500 is $2500. Also I feel really badly about stringing the broker along.
Better has now come back with the following:

30 year fixed
2.875%
$3,469 Lender credit
$2,500 AMEX credit
A+B+C = $2101

I feel like a jerk but...back to the original broker to tell him that it’s off again.
Good job. That's a great deal!

LenderFi and my current lender both dropped out of the race, so now it's just trying to get Better to beat/match Loan Depot's offer. Even if they don't, I'm still in good shape, but if they can even match the Loan Depot offer, that'll be an extra $1,500 in my pocket.

I was still having trouble getting Better to respond, though. I ended up calling my processing expert again yesterday and complained to the receptionist that I've tried contacting her by phone and email and no response. So he said he'd ping her and her manager. Sure enough, she emailed me back a few hours later.

And for the person who said, "just schedule a call via the "teams" page", my processing expert's schedule is 100% booked. No available slots. I wasn't sure if it was a software error or a ploy to avoid taking calls while making it look like you do. The receptionist seemed surprised she was thoroughly booked, so maybe she's just super super busy.
I’m sure they are slammed as I receive emails from them late at night (10pm, 11pm). Even considering them being west cost and me being east coast, that’s working late.

I am still a bit bummed that I wasn’t able to match what another post here got—essentially same offer just 1/8% better on rate—I’m very happy.

I’ve also asked about the reissuing title insurance—could be another $600 or so in my pocket!
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Jags4186 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:55 am
Brain wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:48 am
Jags4186 wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:48 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:32 pm
njdealguy wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Seems to me they might be kind of choking at this point where doesn't really want to go down further on the matching but isn't yet letting you know either. Something similar happened with a coworker also refinancing with Better and it seems to be harder to play them once have initially locked the rate.
I’m actually at my wits end here. I emailed Better twice about matching the new loan and never heard back. I emailed the broker and said I’d go with him. I receive an email from Better at 10:20pm saying they should be able to match the loan tomorrow and provide me with an updated estimate plus get me the $2500 from AMEX.

I just want it to end but $2500 is $2500. Also I feel really badly about stringing the broker along.
Better has now come back with the following:

30 year fixed
2.875%
$3,469 Lender credit
$2,500 AMEX credit
A+B+C = $2101

I feel like a jerk but...back to the original broker to tell him that it’s off again.
Good job. That's a great deal!

LenderFi and my current lender both dropped out of the race, so now it's just trying to get Better to beat/match Loan Depot's offer. Even if they don't, I'm still in good shape, but if they can even match the Loan Depot offer, that'll be an extra $1,500 in my pocket.

I was still having trouble getting Better to respond, though. I ended up calling my processing expert again yesterday and complained to the receptionist that I've tried contacting her by phone and email and no response. So he said he'd ping her and her manager. Sure enough, she emailed me back a few hours later.

And for the person who said, "just schedule a call via the "teams" page", my processing expert's schedule is 100% booked. No available slots. I wasn't sure if it was a software error or a ploy to avoid taking calls while making it look like you do. The receptionist seemed surprised she was thoroughly booked, so maybe she's just super super busy.
I’m sure they are slammed as I receive emails from them late at night (10pm, 11pm). Even considering them being west cost and me being east coast, that’s working late.

I am still a bit bummed that I wasn’t able to match what another post here got—essentially same offer just 1/8% better on rate—I’m very happy.

I’ve also asked about the reissuing title insurance—could be another $600 or so in my pocket!
Ha, I got an email from my processor that late last night, too! Her name isn't Jessica, is it?

I asked them about a reissue, but there seems to be some confusion about title insurance. Which is another topic; I've asked two people at my current lender for a copy of their title insurance policy and both times they responded about my hazard insurance.
Gadget
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

Another datapoint... loanDepot sounded amicable to beat any rate I had. But once I sent them the LE from Better, they pretty much refused to send me any LE. They wanted verbal intent to proceed on the process at loandepot before they'd even provide a competing LE.

It sounded like they are aware that Better will beat them. But I wasn't going to proceed with loandepot without seeing an LE first to even know for sure they were a better offer.
DoctorPhysics
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DoctorPhysics »

Just locked with LenderFi

I am moving from a 3.875% 30 year (24 years left) to a 2.875% 20 year. Total cost $500 after all fees and credits. If I read the numbers correct, this is just the interest cost to bridge the loan over to the new loan.

Escrow waived, FICO 800+

Entire process is very smooth so far, I started this 3 days ago and we are already in underwriting review.

I’m saving about 100k in interest!

It will be interesting to handle my own insurance and taxes. Do you guys have advice on this?
WhyRWeHere
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:40 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

DoctorPhysics wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:10 pm Just locked with LenderFi

I am moving from a 3.875% 30 year (24 years left) to a 2.875% 20 year. Total cost $500 after all fees and credits. If I read the numbers correct, this is just the interest cost to bridge the loan over to the new loan.

Escrow waived, FICO 800+

Entire process is very smooth so far, I started this 3 days ago and we are already in underwriting review.

I’m saving about 100k in interest!

It will be interesting to handle my own insurance and taxes. Do you guys have advice on this?
It's definitely a great feeling knowing how much you'll save in interest! Hope it all goes smoothly. I just pay insurance once a year. With Chase, my present lender, I have to upload proof of the new policy each year on my account. I'm assuming that every lender will need proof that insurance remains in place. My taxes are due and paid quarterly, but I don't need to submit proof of payment to the lender for this.
pindevil
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

Gadget wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:52 pm Another datapoint... loanDepot sounded amicable to beat any rate I had. But once I sent them the LE from Better, they pretty much refused to send me any LE. They wanted verbal intent to proceed on the process at loandepot before they'd even provide a competing LE.

It sounded like they are aware that Better will beat them. But I wasn't going to proceed with loandepot without seeing an LE first to even know for sure they were a better offer.
What's wrong with giving intent to proceed? You can cancel your application at any time.
mt2k
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:37 pm
DoctorPhysics wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:10 pm Just locked with LenderFi

I am moving from a 3.875% 30 year (24 years left) to a 2.875% 20 year. Total cost $500 after all fees and credits. If I read the numbers correct, this is just the interest cost to bridge the loan over to the new loan.

Escrow waived, FICO 800+

Entire process is very smooth so far, I started this 3 days ago and we are already in underwriting review.

I’m saving about 100k in interest!

It will be interesting to handle my own insurance and taxes. Do you guys have advice on this?
It's definitely a great feeling knowing how much you'll save in interest! Hope it all goes smoothly. I just pay insurance once a year. With Chase, my present lender, I have to upload proof of the new policy each year on my account. I'm assuming that every lender will need proof that insurance remains in place. My taxes are due and paid quarterly, but I don't need to submit proof of payment to the lender for this.
I pay taxes and insurances on my own, no escrow. Lender never asked for tax paid proof. The only times I have submitted insurance proof are during refinancing..
skis4hire
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by skis4hire »

Locked 5/19, closed on 6/10 with Better.
30-year fixed, 3.00% 0 points, $430K, 70% LTV
$1600 lender credit
$2500 AMEX credit
A+B+C = $1950
Gadget
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

pindevil wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:26 pm
Gadget wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:52 pm Another datapoint... loanDepot sounded amicable to beat any rate I had. But once I sent them the LE from Better, they pretty much refused to send me any LE. They wanted verbal intent to proceed on the process at loandepot before they'd even provide a competing LE.

It sounded like they are aware that Better will beat them. But I wasn't going to proceed with loandepot without seeing an LE first to even know for sure they were a better offer.
What's wrong with giving intent to proceed? You can cancel your application at any time.
Intent to proceed before getting even a loan estimate? No one else made me do that.

Doesn't it give them the right to start charging fees like appraisal and other stuff?
Seattler123
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Seattler123 »

The post says "verbal intent to proceed" and not the signed intent to proceed. With most lenders, I wasn't able to get the official loan estimate without first 'locking' the rate with the lender.
Gadget wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:29 pm
pindevil wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:26 pm
Gadget wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:52 pm Another datapoint... loanDepot sounded amicable to beat any rate I had. But once I sent them the LE from Better, they pretty much refused to send me any LE. They wanted verbal intent to proceed on the process at loandepot before they'd even provide a competing LE.

It sounded like they are aware that Better will beat them. But I wasn't going to proceed with loandepot without seeing an LE first to even know for sure they were a better offer.
What's wrong with giving intent to proceed? You can cancel your application at any time.
Intent to proceed before getting even a loan estimate? No one else made me do that.

Doesn't it give them the right to start charging fees like appraisal and other stuff?
Jags4186
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Brain wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:42 am
Ha, I got an email from my processor that late last night, too! Her name isn't Jessica, is it?

I asked them about a reissue, but there seems to be some confusion about title insurance. Which is another topic; I've asked two people at my current lender for a copy of their title insurance policy and both times they responded about my hazard insurance.
I asked about the reissue yesterday and my Loan Estimate updated today saving me another $600! Didn’t have to do anything but bring it up. I’m working with Alyssa.
Brain
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Jags4186 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Brain wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:42 am
Ha, I got an email from my processor that late last night, too! Her name isn't Jessica, is it?

I asked them about a reissue, but there seems to be some confusion about title insurance. Which is another topic; I've asked two people at my current lender for a copy of their title insurance policy and both times they responded about my hazard insurance.
I asked about the reissue yesterday and my Loan Estimate updated today saving me another $600! Didn’t have to do anything but bring it up. I’m working with Alyssa.
I brought it up, but my processor is saying unless we switch to my old titling agency, they can't do a reissue. But my old agency is quoting 2x the price of Better's pre-selected company. I'm in Maryland and I checked that they allow reissue. They do. Better did knock $200 off the title charges at some point, so it's "only" $795. Don't know if I'll be able to do much there.

But, in better news, Better matched and beat Loan Depot's offer, by $500! That's a $2,000 improvement!
beginner
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:32 am
Location: TX

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by beginner »

I closed today with lenderfi. 2.5% 15 yr no cost after credits. Smooth and efficient.

I noticed they will be servicing the loan (transferring to themself). Are they doing that now? I used them 9/2019 and they transferred it to Wells Fargo.
DoctorPhysics
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DoctorPhysics »

mt2k wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:42 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:37 pm
DoctorPhysics wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:10 pm Just locked with LenderFi

I am moving from a 3.875% 30 year (24 years left) to a 2.875% 20 year. Total cost $500 after all fees and credits. If I read the numbers correct, this is just the interest cost to bridge the loan over to the new loan.

Escrow waived, FICO 800+

Entire process is very smooth so far, I started this 3 days ago and we are already in underwriting review.

I’m saving about 100k in interest!

It will be interesting to handle my own insurance and taxes. Do you guys have advice on this?
It's definitely a great feeling knowing how much you'll save in interest! Hope it all goes smoothly. I just pay insurance once a year. With Chase, my present lender, I have to upload proof of the new policy each year on my account. I'm assuming that every lender will need proof that insurance remains in place. My taxes are due and paid quarterly, but I don't need to submit proof of payment to the lender for this.
I pay taxes and insurances on my own, no escrow. Lender never asked for tax paid proof. The only times I have submitted insurance proof are during refinancing..
Thank you, I guess we will see what they require. Not too worried, I’ll just stuff the funds in a savings account till ready to pay.
dragoncar
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:08 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dragoncar »

First refinance, closed with Ally/Better 2 weeks ago, "funded" one week ago, original mortgagee (Chase) still doesn't show payoff online. Asked Ally, and they simply said it was funded... no further details. Didn't reply to my follow-up email. Going to call Chase tomorrow but someone tell me if I'm taking crazy pills. Does it usually take that long for them (title or Chase) to process a payoff? Seems like Ally would want to be more on top of this as they are in trouble if Chase doesn't release lien. Already unhappy with Title365 after they sent notary docs with wrong name on closing day (didn't match what I confirmed the day before) and then sent another notary out day after funding to sign one doc they forgot to include. If they make me eat an extra week of interest I'm gonna be mad.

Rates are pretty much in line with what you guys are posting, but I'm out of pocket a bit because I never played the Better beat game and didn't know about the Amex promo. Was just super excited to lock a good rate when all the big banks were quoting BS a full point higher. Better couldn't or wouldn't beat Ally, but I won't pursue the $1k because loan is too big.
nic3456
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

oktwindad wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:37 am I just locked in a 2.5% 30 year 15/15 Arm - 0 Points - loan amount 260K. We'll have about $4400 in closing cost that are being rolled in.

Going from a 30 year 3.875% (24 years left) to 2.5%. We'll continue to pay the same amount and have it paid off in 15 years. Likely i'll just get tired of having a mortgage and write a check and be done with it in 5-7 years.

I know ARM so scary...but we have enough not to have a mortgage and the most it could go up is to our previous payment. They also give us 240 days notice of the one time interest rate change.
What lender was this?
gullit18
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:15 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gullit18 »

pindevil wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:58 pm I didn't have an AMEX card before starting Loan Application at Better.com but I did apply for and was approved for the AMEX Blue Card right before locking my rate. I entered the last 5 digits as part of the final tasks assigned on Better.com. We'll see what happens with the $2,500 credit.


I don't have an AMEX card and I've locked in a rate with Better.com but haven't closed yet, can I still get this deal? Wouldn't this be a bad time to apply for an AMEX during the refi process?
pindevil
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

gullit18 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:35 am
pindevil wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:58 pm I didn't have an AMEX card before starting Loan Application at Better.com but I did apply for and was approved for the AMEX Blue Card right before locking my rate. I entered the last 5 digits as part of the final tasks assigned on Better.com. We'll see what happens with the $2,500 credit.


I don't have an AMEX card and I've locked in a rate with Better.com but haven't closed yet, can I still get this deal? Wouldn't this be a bad time to apply for an AMEX during the refi process?
Others have mentioned they applied for a card after locking. Just let better.com know what you are doing.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

dragoncar wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:26 am First refinance, closed with Ally/Better 2 weeks ago, "funded" one week ago, original mortgagee (Chase) still doesn't show payoff online. Asked Ally, and they simply said it was funded... no further details. Didn't reply to my follow-up email. Going to call Chase tomorrow but someone tell me if I'm taking crazy pills. Does it usually take that long for them (title or Chase) to process a payoff? Seems like Ally would want to be more on top of this as they are in trouble if Chase doesn't release lien. Already unhappy with Title365 after they sent notary docs with wrong name on closing day (didn't match what I confirmed the day before) and then sent another notary out day after funding to sign one doc they forgot to include. If they make me eat an extra week of interest I'm gonna be mad.

Rates are pretty much in line with what you guys are posting, but I'm out of pocket a bit because I never played the Better beat game and didn't know about the Amex promo. Was just super excited to lock a good rate when all the big banks were quoting BS a full point higher. Better couldn't or wouldn't beat Ally, but I won't pursue the $1k because loan is too big.
I would push Title365 to send you proof of payment to Chase. Sadly, it could be they haven’t wired the Chase the funds yet. Better saying funded just means they sent Title365 the funds. It doesn’t mean Title365 didn’t drop the ball again.

On my loan, I was funded on a Monday and Tuesday afternoon I asked for proof of payment. When Better reached out to Better Settlement Services, they replied that payoff hasn’t been sent since Better didn’t give them a release date. My closing expert then pointed out the date on my file and they promptly sent the wire and gave my proof of payment.

If it has been more than 48 hours since Title365 sent payment, they need to start an investigation with their bank’s wire department.
kmanjir
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kmanjir »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:33 pm
kmanjir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:57 pm Thank you very much, Brandon, for the link to that spreadsheet - it has been exactly the thing I was looking for to compare rates and costs!

Following up, I decided to shop for the 15-year fixed, and so far, Northpointe has provided the best quotes. Sharing the two below that are most attractive to me from a no/low-cost refinance perspective. Would like to get your (and others') feedback on whether one is better than the other as well gut-check my pros/cons thought process.

On a side note, I was slightly surprised that I didn't get a wider range of quotes at a lower interest rate that would be low/no-cost refi given the current rates and my good credit score. Sadly, since I do not have an Amex card, I wasn't able to look into the Better/2500 Amex credit offer.

NorthPointe Quote 1 (2.875% interest rate)
...
Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$82.29 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4737.92
Total out of pocket = -$82.29 + $4737.92 = $4655.63 (same as J, cross-checked)

NorthPointe Quote 2 (3% interest rate)
...
Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$1344.42 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4777.5
Total out of pocket = -$1344.42 + $4777.5 = $3433.08 (same as J, cross-checked)

Pros/Cons of Quote 2 (3%) versus Quote 1 (2.875%):
...
c. Running the numbers, and taking into account all closing costs, it tells me that there would be a <~$2K savings between the two rates by the time I finish paying off the loan about 10-11 years into the 15-year term.
d. So, with that low of a savings differential over the course of 10-11 years, I might as well go for the 3% rate and get more credits applied upfront (correct way of thinking about this?)

Thank You!
My pleasure kmanjir! I'm glad you are seeing some good offers and effectively knocked off around $2k from the prior quote you got. You cannot go wrong with both and at a $2k difference over the term of the loan, whatever works best for you know is a good enough decision. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Especially since you will be paying ahead and you never know, you may not stay in the house until the mortgage ends, you might as well do what you can integrate into your finances best.

Similar to when I comment on a "pay off my home early" threads, once you get down to small differences in your overall net worth, do what feels best, regardless of if it may mathematically better one way or the other. The same goes if someone has a preference for a Vanguard Mutual Fund vs. its ETF. Once you are getting a low-cost Vanguard fund, whatever you like better is worth a small cost difference.

Great job! When is your estimated closing?
Thank you! I ended up deciding to go with the 3% rate, as I will still be dropping 1% point and will even be able to apply some of the lender credits to the prepaids/escrow.

Currently, the closing is estimated to be 8/7, that estimate seems to be par for the course, based on others' experiences here.

I did have a question. So, for a mortgage balance of $280K, they are estimating - "your payoff estimate will be around $282,000 since we pay mortgage interest in the arrears."

I understand the concept of paying the mortgage interest in arrears, however, I am not following the calculations here.
If the closing date is 8/7, and the daily interest payment is 23.5, it seems they are collecting ~85 days worth of mortgage interest. If so, why?
I thought it would be 30 days for the month prior to closing + whatever number of days they need to collect during the month of closing.
Am I thinking about this correctly, or am I completely off-base here?

Just trying to understand how they calculated that the payoff estimate is $2K over the loan balance.
mt2k
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

kmanjir wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:35 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:33 pm
kmanjir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:57 pm Thank you very much, Brandon, for the link to that spreadsheet - it has been exactly the thing I was looking for to compare rates and costs!

Following up, I decided to shop for the 15-year fixed, and so far, Northpointe has provided the best quotes. Sharing the two below that are most attractive to me from a no/low-cost refinance perspective. Would like to get your (and others') feedback on whether one is better than the other as well gut-check my pros/cons thought process.

On a side note, I was slightly surprised that I didn't get a wider range of quotes at a lower interest rate that would be low/no-cost refi given the current rates and my good credit score. Sadly, since I do not have an Amex card, I wasn't able to look into the Better/2500 Amex credit offer.

NorthPointe Quote 1 (2.875% interest rate)
...
Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$82.29 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4737.92
Total out of pocket = -$82.29 + $4737.92 = $4655.63 (same as J, cross-checked)

NorthPointe Quote 2 (3% interest rate)
...
Out of Pocket needed for Lender and all other fees (D + E + Lender Credits) --> -$1344.42 (Credit)
Out of Pocket needed for Prepaid + Escrow (F + G) --> $4777.5
Total out of pocket = -$1344.42 + $4777.5 = $3433.08 (same as J, cross-checked)

Pros/Cons of Quote 2 (3%) versus Quote 1 (2.875%):
...
c. Running the numbers, and taking into account all closing costs, it tells me that there would be a <~$2K savings between the two rates by the time I finish paying off the loan about 10-11 years into the 15-year term.
d. So, with that low of a savings differential over the course of 10-11 years, I might as well go for the 3% rate and get more credits applied upfront (correct way of thinking about this?)

Thank You!
My pleasure kmanjir! I'm glad you are seeing some good offers and effectively knocked off around $2k from the prior quote you got. You cannot go wrong with both and at a $2k difference over the term of the loan, whatever works best for you know is a good enough decision. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Especially since you will be paying ahead and you never know, you may not stay in the house until the mortgage ends, you might as well do what you can integrate into your finances best.

Similar to when I comment on a "pay off my home early" threads, once you get down to small differences in your overall net worth, do what feels best, regardless of if it may mathematically better one way or the other. The same goes if someone has a preference for a Vanguard Mutual Fund vs. its ETF. Once you are getting a low-cost Vanguard fund, whatever you like better is worth a small cost difference.

Great job! When is your estimated closing?
Thank you! I ended up deciding to go with the 3% rate, as I will still be dropping 1% point and will even be able to apply some of the lender credits to the prepaids/escrow.

Currently, the closing is estimated to be 8/7, that estimate seems to be par for the course, based on others' experiences here.

I did have a question. So, for a mortgage balance of $280K, they are estimating - "your payoff estimate will be around $282,000 since we pay mortgage interest in the arrears."

I understand the concept of paying the mortgage interest in arrears, however, I am not following the calculations here.
If the closing date is 8/7, and the daily interest payment is 23.5, it seems they are collecting ~85 days worth of mortgage interest. If so, why?
I thought it would be 30 days for the month prior to closing + whatever number of days they need to collect during the month of closing.
Am I thinking about this correctly, or am I completely off-base here?

Just trying to understand how they calculated that the payoff estimate is $2K over the loan balance.
Your closing is on 8/7 and looks like the funding will be on 8/24 so that is 85 days from your last payment (6/1).
If you are going to make one payment (7/1) before closing, your Payoff amount will be the new principal as of 7/1 and 55 days interest
If you are going to make two payments (7/1 & 8/1) before closing, your Payoff amount will be the new principal as of 8/1 and 24 days interest
oktwindad
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by oktwindad »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:20 am
oktwindad wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:37 am I just locked in a 2.5% 30 year 15/15 Arm - 0 Points - loan amount 260K. We'll have about $4400 in closing cost that are being rolled in.

Going from a 30 year 3.875% (24 years left) to 2.5%. We'll continue to pay the same amount and have it paid off in 15 years. Likely i'll just get tired of having a mortgage and write a check and be done with it in 5-7 years.

I know ARM so scary...but we have enough not to have a mortgage and the most it could go up is to our previous payment. They also give us 240 days notice of the one time interest rate change.
What lender was this?
This was weokie credit union in Oklahoma.
dragoncar
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dragoncar »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:29 am
dragoncar wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:26 am First refinance, closed with Ally/Better 2 weeks ago, "funded" one week ago, original mortgagee (Chase) still doesn't show payoff online. Asked Ally, and they simply said it was funded... no further details. Didn't reply to my follow-up email. Going to call Chase tomorrow but someone tell me if I'm taking crazy pills. Does it usually take that long for them (title or Chase) to process a payoff? Seems like Ally would want to be more on top of this as they are in trouble if Chase doesn't release lien. Already unhappy with Title365 after they sent notary docs with wrong name on closing day (didn't match what I confirmed the day before) and then sent another notary out day after funding to sign one doc they forgot to include. If they make me eat an extra week of interest I'm gonna be mad.

Rates are pretty much in line with what you guys are posting, but I'm out of pocket a bit because I never played the Better beat game and didn't know about the Amex promo. Was just super excited to lock a good rate when all the big banks were quoting BS a full point higher. Better couldn't or wouldn't beat Ally, but I won't pursue the $1k because loan is too big.
I would push Title365 to send you proof of payment to Chase. Sadly, it could be they haven’t wired the Chase the funds yet. Better saying funded just means they sent Title365 the funds. It doesn’t mean Title365 didn’t drop the ball again.

On my loan, I was funded on a Monday and Tuesday afternoon I asked for proof of payment. When Better reached out to Better Settlement Services, they replied that payoff hasn’t been sent since Better didn’t give them a release date. My closing expert then pointed out the date on my file and they promptly sent the wire and gave my proof of payment.

If it has been more than 48 hours since Title365 sent payment, they need to start an investigation with their bank’s wire department.
Thanks, they paid the loan yesterday, one week after “funding”. I guess they looked into it and realized title365 was waiting for me to send them money even though I was due a small amount. Not sure if that’s that banks fault or titles fault for having the wrong closing disclosure but it’s not my fault. I guess I should have asked them earlier, but i thought the whole point of having closing experts and settlement agents is that they actually make sure the previous loan has been paid.

I asked for an adjustment or accommodation for the extra interest. Will see what they say, but I consider this an unreasonable delay. Having a hard time recommending better/title365 given my experience so far
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

beginner wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:15 pm I closed today with lenderfi. 2.5% 15 yr no cost after credits. Smooth and efficient.

I noticed they will be servicing the loan (transferring to themself). Are they doing that now? I used them 9/2019 and they transferred it to Wells Fargo.
I doubt they will service as servicing requires a set of employees with different skill sets/qualifications.
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:29 am
dragoncar wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:26 am First refinance, closed with Ally/Better 2 weeks ago, "funded" one week ago, original mortgagee (Chase) still doesn't show payoff online. Asked Ally, and they simply said it was funded... no further details. Didn't reply to my follow-up email. Going to call Chase tomorrow but someone tell me if I'm taking crazy pills. Does it usually take that long for them (title or Chase) to process a payoff? Seems like Ally would want to be more on top of this as they are in trouble if Chase doesn't release lien. Already unhappy with Title365 after they sent notary docs with wrong name on closing day (didn't match what I confirmed the day before) and then sent another notary out day after funding to sign one doc they forgot to include. If they make me eat an extra week of interest I'm gonna be mad.

Rates are pretty much in line with what you guys are posting, but I'm out of pocket a bit because I never played the Better beat game and didn't know about the Amex promo. Was just super excited to lock a good rate when all the big banks were quoting BS a full point higher. Better couldn't or wouldn't beat Ally, but I won't pursue the $1k because loan is too big.
I would push Title365 to send you proof of payment to Chase. Sadly, it could be they haven’t wired the Chase the funds yet. Better saying funded just means they sent Title365 the funds. It doesn’t mean Title365 didn’t drop the ball again.

On my loan, I was funded on a Monday and Tuesday afternoon I asked for proof of payment. When Better reached out to Better Settlement Services, they replied that payoff hasn’t been sent since Better didn’t give them a release date. My closing expert then pointed out the date on my file and they promptly sent the wire and gave my proof of payment.

If it has been more than 48 hours since Title365 sent payment, they need to start an investigation with their bank’s wire department.
Agreed. Settlement agent is who you want to talk to, not the new lender concerning on whether the wire has been sent to prior lender.
McJammer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by McJammer »

If it's helpful to those considering a cash out refinance, just got off the phone with Anthony from Lenderfi and they are not doing cash out refis right now. :(
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

dragoncar wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:26 am First refinance, closed with Ally/Better 2 weeks ago, "funded" one week ago, original mortgagee (Chase) still doesn't show payoff online. Asked Ally, and they simply said it was funded... no further details. Didn't reply to my follow-up email. Going to call Chase tomorrow but someone tell me if I'm taking crazy pills. Does it usually take that long for them (title or Chase) to process a payoff? Seems like Ally would want to be more on top of this as they are in trouble if Chase doesn't release lien. Already unhappy with Title365 after they sent notary docs with wrong name on closing day (didn't match what I confirmed the day before) and then sent another notary out day after funding to sign one doc they forgot to include. If they make me eat an extra week of interest I'm gonna be mad.

Rates are pretty much in line with what you guys are posting, but I'm out of pocket a bit because I never played the Better beat game and didn't know about the Amex promo. Was just super excited to lock a good rate when all the big banks were quoting BS a full point higher. Better couldn't or wouldn't beat Ally, but I won't pursue the $1k because loan is too big.
Definitely call Ally/Better and they can follow up with the title company. I closed with Ally in May, and the title company wired the payoff amount to Wells Fargo the day the loan "funded", and my Wells Fargo account online showed it as paid off as of that date (I think my online account reflected it that day even).
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MilleniumBuc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MilleniumBuc »

tingles wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:16 pm Just closed today - refinanced to 2.5%, 15 years, conventional loan. Many thanks to Bogleheads for introducing me to Lenderfi. I applied through Lenderfi and was conditionally approved for 2.5%. I then took that rate to my existing lender and asked them to beat it. They were willing to match the rate - their closing costs were slightly higher, but we decided to go with our existing lender for ease of completing the refinance process and because they also service the loan. They also agreed to waive the appraisal. From application to closing, it took less than 3 weeks!
Quick question - by using the same servicing lender, does this avoid funding the Prepaids since it’s the same company holding the escrow account?

And similar question to anybody else - as you get closer to the date your taxes and insurance are paid, I am guessing the prepaid escrows need to be closer to the full amount plus the 2 month minimum in escrow, would that be correct?

Thanks.
Berean
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Berean »

I am just starting the refi process. I have a "closing costs worksheet" from Northpointe Bank. I got on the LenderFi website, entered my info, and generated their various options for a 15-year fixed. For each option, LenderFi's costs and fees were at least $2,000 higher than Northpointe's, mainly due to higher origination fees and points. Does it make any sense for me to go any further with LenderFi? Is there any chance they will come down to Northpointe's level?
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

Berean wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:23 pm I am just starting the refi process. I have a "closing costs worksheet" from Northpointe Bank. I got on the LenderFi website, entered my info, and generated their various options for a 15-year fixed. For each option, LenderFi's costs and fees were at least $2,000 higher than Northpointe's, mainly due to higher origination fees and points. Does it make any sense for me to go any further with LenderFi? Is there any chance they will come down to Northpointe's level?
My lender fi quotes were way lower from my rep than what their website listed. This was true of every lender I got quotes from.
fanmail
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fanmail »

McJammer wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:41 pm If it's helpful to those considering a cash out refinance, just got off the phone with Anthony from Lenderfi and they are not doing cash out refis right now. :(
Darn, thanks for sharing. That is who I was planning to use as competition with Better.
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