Refinance Mega Thread

[BrandonBogle]

Chase contacted me informing me that my 1 year old loan, a 30 year fixed rate at 4.25%, 820600 purchase 656000 original loan, may be eligible for a refinance.

No closing (lender credit covers 3k closing), no points, I can go down to 3.49%, if I pay points, as low as 3.125 but that will cost ~7k.
...
Am I crazy to wait to see if rates go down any further? They are literally giving me a 3.49 option and paying me to take it, and thats going to be hundreds of dollars added to our budget.

Considering this may be a jumbo mortgage, I would take Chase’s offer with no points, secure a lower rate with zero cost and zero risk, then be willing to refi again should rates and closing costs make the deal worthwhile for you. In the meantime, you are paying 4.25% for an unknown drop in the rate in the future when the Jumbo market is tight and less competitive right now.

[Mr-et-Mrs-R]

Following up on my promise to give an update on our closure:
Lender: ConsumerDirect Mortgage; using Costco's membership.
State: MA
Interest: 3.25%
LTV:44%
New Monthly: $1692.00
Cash to close: $2,254.57

Old Monthly: $2111.00
Savings from our old loan: $419

Believe that we're going to continue to make our payments at our "Old Monthly" rate since we're use to that and really hammer the mortgage.

[MoonOrb]

Our lender, Freedom Mortgage, called last week about refinancing. Our new loan will be a 30 year term, 2.75% rate with a total APR of 2.81%. It should close in about a month. We need to do virtually nothing. This is basically free money to us.

Weirdly, for the first time I'm finding myself torn between pre-paying so we can be mortgage free at the same time we would have been before refinancing, or if we should invest the difference every month. It's interesting how this psychology works--this was always a no-brainer for me before (not prepay) but now that I've become attached to being mortgage free at a certain time I'm thinking about prepaying. And now the interest rate is even lower!

But I suspect after I think about it for a little bit I'll just invest the difference each month and keep the 30 year term.

[2quiker]

Kind of new to the refi thing, so if yall don't mind me asking some questions I would appreciate some feedback.

Payoff note $241,759.26.

Payoff statement.
Unpaid Principal Balance$241,759.26
Interest Calculated to July 01, 2020 $805.86
Total Amounts Due Under your Note and Mortgage $242,565.12
Per Diem (Daily Interest) $26.45
TOTAL AMOUNT DUE$242,565.1

Loan Estimates
Loan Amount $242,943

A. $0
B. Services borrower did not shop for $20520.00
C. $0
D. $2052.00

Other Costs
E. Recording $45
F. Prepaids $2,868.83
G. Escrow Payment At Closing $332.29
L. Total other Costs $3,246.12
J. Total Closing costs. $3,852.12 (Closing Costs subtotals (D+L) $5,298.12, Lender Credits $1,446.00)


Loan Estimate Payoff and Payments
K. $242,194.81

Closing is scheduled 6/5/2020 and I am paying for all closing costs.
The want me to bring $3,103.93, not sure where they are getting $3,103.93 from?

They have $442.86 in the prepaids interest $21.0888 Per day from 6/10/2020 to 7/1/2020.
Shouldn't the payoff for my currently loan be $242,023.76 ( $241,759.26 + $264.5($26.45 x 10days)) and not $242,943? Am I not seeing something, where is the extra 919.24 coming from?

I would really appreciate some feed back please.

[TXGator]

Chase contacted me informing me that my 1 year old loan, a 30 year fixed rate at 4.25%, 820600 purchase 656000 original loan, may be eligible for a refinance.

No closing (lender credit covers 3k closing), no points, I can go down to 3.49%, if I pay points, as low as 3.125 but that will cost ~7k.

Our mortgage is already 20% of our total expenses per month in relation to our income, but if we refinance, we are seeing something crazy like 336-400+ dollars (depending on where you land on the spread of rate options) per month.

Am I crazy to wait to see if rates go down any further? They are literally giving me a 3.49 option and paying me to take it, and thats going to be hundreds of dollars added to our budget.

Here is my data reference and possible justification for 'waiting it out' , https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... tgage-rate , the trend line seems like it will go down before it goes back up.

How did they contact you?

[BrandonBogle]

Closing is scheduled 6/5/2020 and I am paying for all closing costs.
The want me to bring $3,103.93, not sure where they are getting $3,103.93 from?
...
Shouldn't the payoff for my currently loan be $242,023.76 ( $241,759.26 + $264.5($26.45 x 10days)) and not $242,943? Am I not seeing something, where is the extra 919.24 coming from?

Where did $242,943 come from? Section K you listed says payoff is $242,194.81. $242,943 I believe you are getting from page 1 of your Closing Disclosure. That is the loan amount on the NEW mortgage, not the payoff of the old mortgage. That would make the math as follows:

Code: Select all

  $ 242,943.00 (new loan)
- $ 242,194.81 (old loan)
= $     748.19

  $ 3,852.12 (closing costs)
- $   748.19 (unused proceeds of new loan)
= $ 3,103.93 ("cash" you bring to closing)

Page 3 of the Closing Disclosure, to the right of "Cash to Close" should have "Closing Costs Financed (Paid from your Loan Amount): $748.19"

[Young Fellow]

With one I said intent to proceed, with two others quotes, this is apart of Better,

That is what freaked them out. Now they want proof you aren’t actively proceeding with another lender. Rate shopping is one thing, but the “intent to proceed” triggers them to move forward with things such as title search.

Since you can only be charged the appraisal and any app fee up front (which Better doesn’t charge), they have to eat this third-party cost if you don’t close with them. Thus, before they incur more cost, they want an assurance you are going with them.

Note that you can still pull out before closing. Just don’t have more than one lender with an “intent to proceed” or else they may freak out.

Thank you Brandon for explaining. I would now document for Better

[dsmil]

Chase contacted me informing me that my 1 year old loan, a 30 year fixed rate at 4.25%, 820600 purchase 656000 original loan, may be eligible for a refinance.

No closing (lender credit covers 3k closing), no points, I can go down to 3.49%, if I pay points, as low as 3.125 but that will cost ~7k.

Our mortgage is already 20% of our total expenses per month in relation to our income, but if we refinance, we are seeing something crazy like 336-400+ dollars (depending on where you land on the spread of rate options) per month.

Am I crazy to wait to see if rates go down any further? They are literally giving me a 3.49 option and paying me to take it, and thats going to be hundreds of dollars added to our budget.

Here is my data reference and possible justification for 'waiting it out' , https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... tgage-rate , the trend line seems like it will go down before it goes back up.

If you have a 4.25% loan, you can definitely look towards refinancing. Their 3.49% no-cost option is a much better deal for you, but you should definitely shop around since you have no obligation to go back to Chase. I wouldn't wait around if I were you since you're looking at a no-cost refinance. If rates drop even further, nothing is stopping you from refinancing again.

[ChiKid24]

Chase contacted me informing me that my 1 year old loan, a 30 year fixed rate at 4.25%, 820600 purchase 656000 original loan, may be eligible for a refinance.

No closing (lender credit covers 3k closing), no points, I can go down to 3.49%, if I pay points, as low as 3.125 but that will cost ~7k.

Our mortgage is already 20% of our total expenses per month in relation to our income, but if we refinance, we are seeing something crazy like 336-400+ dollars (depending on where you land on the spread of rate options) per month.

Am I crazy to wait to see if rates go down any further? They are literally giving me a 3.49 option and paying me to take it, and thats going to be hundreds of dollars added to our budget.

Here is my data reference and possible justification for 'waiting it out' , https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... tgage-rate , the trend line seems like it will go down before it goes back up.

I'd move forward with this and get an official loan estimate from Chase. Then go to Better and apply to see if they will best. Even better, if you have an Amex, apply on Better using the Amex promo link and then see if they will beat. Worst case is they don't and you move forward with Chase. But if they do, you'll usually save at least $1,000 on costs when they beat plus $2,500 from the Amex promo plus have the appraisal waived.

[2quiker]

Closing is scheduled 6/5/2020 and I am paying for all closing costs.
The want me to bring $3,103.93, not sure where they are getting $3,103.93 from?
...
Shouldn't the payoff for my currently loan be $242,023.76 ( $241,759.26 + $264.5($26.45 x 10days)) and not $242,943? Am I not seeing something, where is the extra 919.24 coming from?

Where did $242,943 come from? Section K you listed says payoff is $242,194.81. $242,943 I believe you are getting from page 1 of your Closing Disclosure. That is the loan amount on the NEW mortgage, not the payoff of the old mortgage. That would make the math as follows:

Code: Select all

  $ 242,943.00 (new loan)
- $ 242,194.81 (old loan)
= $     748.19

  $ 3,852.12 (closing costs)
- $   748.19 (unused proceeds of new loan)
= $ 3,103.93 ("cash" you bring to closing)

Page 3 of the Closing Disclosure, to the right of "Cash to Close" should have "Closing Costs Financed (Paid from your Loan Amount): $748.19"

Ok I didn't see that section Closing Costs Financed (Paid from your Loan Amount): $748.19". That is what through me off. Thanks for pointing it out, I spent hours trying to figure out.

[nickpete123]

Question on 6 month clawback of lendercredit for anyone who used LenderFi in the past. I refinanced with them just over 3 months ago and they had me sign a form stating I didn't intend to refinance again within 6 months. Since then they sold my mortgage and passed on the servicing to Wells Fargo. Anybody have any experience with how strict they are on this or if it's voided when they sell the mortgage?

Thanks!
NIck

[investingholder]

Has anyone had a lender give them a hard time when they lifted a credit freeze temporarily?

I had one RocketLoan agent tell me a temporary lift is not enough to get a refinance quote and I need a "global" lift. Never heard this before.

[Offshorebound]

Has anyone had issues with Northpointe only giving loan estimates after filling out an application. They gave me a "closing cost worksheet". I'm trying to get better.com to beat Northpointe offer but better will not do anything unless I provide an official loan estimate from Northpointe

[marklar13]

Has anyone had a lender give them a hard time when they lifted a credit freeze temporarily?

I had one RocketLoan agent tell me a temporary lift is not enough to get a refinance quote and I need a "global" lift. Never heard this before.

I've never heard of that either -- not sure how they would even know if it is a temporary lift vs. a permanent lift? Admittedly, I am not an expert on this, but I would think their credit pull is either rejected, or it goes through... not sure if they would know the difference, as long as the file is "open" when they make the request.

We just closed on our refi yesterday. During the application process I did a temporary lift via all 3 websites. At the time we were still shopping around a little bit, so I did the lift for a little over a month, and I am just monitoring on my own while things are unlocked.

Edit: Why not just do the temporary lift that you are comfortable with and see if their inquiry goes through? During our process I didn't unlock the file properly (one of the websites said my file was "unlocked", but apparently it was referring to some proprietary security feature from the bureau, not the standard freeze). The lender let me know that the inquiry from this bureau failed, and I went back in and unfroze it. They resubmitted the inquiry and everything proceeded as normal.

[BrandonBogle]

Question on 6 month clawback of lendercredit for anyone who used LenderFi in the past. I refinanced with them just over 3 months ago and they had me sign a form stating I didn't intend to refinance again within 6 months. Since then they sold my mortgage and passed on the servicing to Wells Fargo. Anybody have any experience with how strict they are on this or if it's voided when they sell the mortgage?

Thanks!
NIck

I can’t answer about the LenderFi clawback, but I will saw that as part of selling the loan, if it closes within 6 months, the investor forces the prior entity to buy back the loan/reverse the purchase from their books. Thus, LenderFi then know about your mortgage closing.

Again, I’m not saying anything about their clawback, just that’s selling the loan doesn’t completely eliminate LenderFi from consideration.

Has anyone had a lender give them a hard time when they lifted a credit freeze temporarily?

I had one RocketLoan agent tell me a temporary lift is not enough to get a refinance quote and I need a "global" lift. Never heard this before.

I had no such problem. I temporarily lifted all three for a week when applying and once I came out of underwriting, I lifted all three again for a week.

[Count of Notre Dame]

I was offered a loan modification with my current bank (First Republic) for a $3k fee on a $1.5M 7/1 ARM at 2.75% (80 LTV). I took the deal as it matched the best refinance offer I received from US Bank and the payoff period for the $3k fee is 3 months. By making the same monthly payment I'll save ~$430 in interest and pay down ~$430 more in principal for a big ~$860 monthly addition to my net worth.

[Shael_AT]

Chase contacted me informing me that my 1 year old loan, a 30 year fixed rate at 4.25%, 820600 purchase 656000 original loan, may be eligible for a refinance.

No closing (lender credit covers 3k closing), no points, I can go down to 3.49%, if I pay points, as low as 3.125 but that will cost ~7k.

Our mortgage is already 20% of our total expenses per month in relation to our income, but if we refinance, we are seeing something crazy like 336-400+ dollars (depending on where you land on the spread of rate options) per month.

Am I crazy to wait to see if rates go down any further? They are literally giving me a 3.49 option and paying me to take it, and thats going to be hundreds of dollars added to our budget.

Here is my data reference and possible justification for 'waiting it out' , https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... tgage-rate , the trend line seems like it will go down before it goes back up.

How did they contact you?

Both secure message directly on the chase website and secondarily a secure message in my inbox directly from the person who was my mortgage lender / point of contact in my local seattle eastside branch from a year ago.

I'm in cybersecurity so my red flags went nuts, I had to do quite a bit of paranoid verifications on this one.

Based on feedback I'm receiving here, I will take the no points refinance and make it a win. Although I see the value in shopping around, I do enjoy having my mortgage loan, 6 credit cards (7th on its way) and a landing account for checking & savings in one place. I will do so anyways since a single app and clean UI is not reason enough to stay with chase, and if its financially insane not to split off to another mortgage broker, then that will be a decision to make.

Going to invest the difference in VTSAX in brokerage. Gotta play the game to win.

[anon_investor]

Question on 6 month clawback of lendercredit for anyone who used LenderFi in the past. I refinanced with them just over 3 months ago and they had me sign a form stating I didn't intend to refinance again within 6 months. Since then they sold my mortgage and passed on the servicing to Wells Fargo. Anybody have any experience with how strict they are on this or if it's voided when they sell the mortgage?

Thanks!
NIck

I can’t answer about the LenderFi clawback, but I will saw that as part of selling the loan, if it closes within 6 months, the investor forces the prior entity to buy back the loan/reverse the purchase from their books. Thus, LenderFi then know about your mortgage closing.

Again, I’m not saying anything about their clawback, just that’s selling the loan doesn’t completely eliminate LenderFi from consideration.

Has anyone had a lender give them a hard time when they lifted a credit freeze temporarily?

I had one RocketLoan agent tell me a temporary lift is not enough to get a refinance quote and I need a "global" lift. Never heard this before.

I had no such problem. I temporarily lifted all three for a week when applying and once I came out of underwriting, I lifted all three again for a week.

Similar experience as BrandonBogle with regards to lifitng credit freezes. I refinanced last month with Ally Bank (they use better.com's platform). I had to temporary lift the credit freezes with all 3 major credit bureaus (Experian, Equifax, Transunion) for 1 day when they did the initial hard credit check. Then I had to temporary lift the credit freeze for 1 day just for Transunion right before closing.

[word]

We close tomorrow with Chase who also carries our old loan. No, this is not via their fancy letter thing that some people are getting. I requested a payoff letter sort of late in the process to try to trigger an offer after starting discussions with them and reading comments here, but nothing materialized.

State: IL

New Loan:
Term: 30 years
Interest: 3.25%
LTV:65.4%
New Monthly (principal and interest): $1,209.87

Old Loan:
Term remaining: 25.25 years
Interest: 4.25%
Old Monthly (principal and interest): $1,542.72

Savings from our old loan: $332.85

Disclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Happy to share other details if that is helpful to folks. Unclear to me if this is a good deal compared to others, but certainly a major improvement so feeling pretty happy about it either way.

[ChiKid24]

We close tomorrow with Chase who also carries our old loan. No, this is not via their fancy letter thing that some people are getting. I requested a payoff letter sort of late in the process to try to trigger an offer after starting discussions with them and reading comments here, but nothing materialized.

State: IL

New Loan:
Term: 30 years
Interest: 3.25%
LTV:65.4%
New Monthly (principal and interest): $1,209.87

Old Loan:
Term remaining: 25.25 years
Interest: 4.25%
Old Monthly (principal and interest): $1,542.72

Savings from our old loan: $332.85

Disclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Happy to share other details if that is helpful to folks. Unclear to me if this is a good deal compared to others, but certainly a major improvement so feeling pretty happy about it either way.

One thing to keep in mind when you think about the savings. Yes you are saving $332.85 a month from your old loan for 25.25 years (303 months). But you are also adding 4.75 years (57 months) on to your mortgage and will be paying $1,209.87 for those extra 57 months. You are still net in the money on this, but it's not simply $333.85 x 360 months.

[mt2k]

We close tomorrow with Chase who also carries our old loan. No, this is not via their fancy letter thing that some people are getting. I requested a payoff letter sort of late in the process to try to trigger an offer after starting discussions with them and reading comments here, but nothing materialized.

State: IL

New Loan:
Term: 30 years
Interest: 3.25%
LTV:65.4%
New Monthly (principal and interest): $1,209.87

Old Loan:
Term remaining: 25.25 years
Interest: 4.25%
Old Monthly (principal and interest): $1,542.72

Savings from our old loan: $332.85

Disclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Happy to share other details if that is helpful to folks. Unclear to me if this is a good deal compared to others, but certainly a major improvement so feeling pretty happy about it either way.

Any deal that results in net saving is a good deal. Just that paying high closing costs makes the next refinance decision a bit difficult if the rates go further down.

Personally, I prefer no cost refinancing so that I can refinance again if the opportunity arrives

[Mr-et-Mrs-R]

One last thing & it's a warning:

If you have to deal with "Solidifi Title" please be aware that they do not encrypt either their emails or PDF attachments.
Inexcusable that they included both Mrs. R's and my SSN in a tax form that was missed from the collection of paperwork without any additional protections.

[njdealguy]

We close tomorrow with Chase who also carries our old loan. No, this is not via their fancy letter thing that some people are getting. I requested a payoff letter sort of late in the process to try to trigger an offer after starting discussions with them and reading comments here, but nothing materialized.

State: IL

New Loan:
Term: 30 years
Interest: 3.25%
LTV:65.4%
New Monthly (principal and interest): $1,209.87

Old Loan:
Term remaining: 25.25 years
Interest: 4.25%
Old Monthly (principal and interest): $1,542.72

Savings from our old loan: $332.85

Disclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Happy to share other details if that is helpful to folks. Unclear to me if this is a good deal compared to others, but certainly a major improvement so feeling pretty happy about it either way.

Any deal that results in net saving is a good deal. Just that paying high closing costs makes the next refinance decision a bit difficult if the rates go further down.

Personally, I prefer no cost refinancing so that I can refinance again if the opportunity arrives

Looks decent to me, as E+F+G+H is the prepaid escrow portion of the Loan Estimate and if 1289.92 is the lender credit and indeed subtracted in section J, the true closing costs is 825.52 - 1289.92 = -464.4

Not knowing other circumstances, the 3.25 interest rate seems bit high though given all the sub 3% no cost refis that have been recently available.

[word]

One thing to keep in mind when you think about the savings. Yes you are saving $332.85 a month from your old loan for 25.25 years (303 months). But you are also adding 4.75 years (57 months) on to your mortgage and will be paying $1,209.87 for those extra 57 months. You are still net in the money on this, but it's not simply $333.85 x 360 months.

This is correct and intentional on our part. We were offered a 20 year at the same rate, but chose this route in case one of us finds ourselves job-challenged in the coming years. We were paying an extra $200/month on the mortgage previously and now we plan to pay an extra $500. We're just buying ourselves some cash flow flexibility in case future circumstances necessitate it. On net this costs us about 2.5 months of payments over the life of the loan vs the 20 year.

Not knowing other circumstances, the 3.25 interest rate seems bit high though given all the sub 3% no cost refis that have been recently available.

Yes, thats the part that seems a little out of whack with what we're seeing now, but we locked in about 55 days ago. The process to get to closing was quite slow for some reason.

[mt2k]

We close tomorrow with Chase who also carries our old loan. No, this is not via their fancy letter thing that some people are getting. I requested a payoff letter sort of late in the process to try to trigger an offer after starting discussions with them and reading comments here, but nothing materialized.

State: IL

New Loan:
Term: 30 years
Interest: 3.25%
LTV:65.4%
New Monthly (principal and interest): $1,209.87

Old Loan:
Term remaining: 25.25 years
Interest: 4.25%
Old Monthly (principal and interest): $1,542.72

Savings from our old loan: $332.85

Disclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Happy to share other details if that is helpful to folks. Unclear to me if this is a good deal compared to others, but certainly a major improvement so feeling pretty happy about it either way.

Any deal that results in net saving is a good deal. Just that paying high closing costs makes the next refinance decision a bit difficult if the rates go further down.

Personally, I prefer no cost refinancing so that I can refinance again if the opportunity arrives

Looks decent to me, as E+F+G+H is the prepaid escrow portion of the Loan Estimate and if 1289.92 is the lender credit and indeed subtracted in section J, the true closing costs is 825.52 - 1289.92 = -464.4

Not knowing other circumstances, the 3.25 interest rate seems bit high though given all the sub 3% no cost refis that have been recently available.

You are right. Didn't realize earlier that $5K cost was under E+F+G..
Yes, 3.25% looks a bit higher but he can start another refinance after few months if the rates go further down.

I have locked at 2.99% no cost refinancing and waiting for cosing..

[BrandonBogle]

Diisclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Good deal word! What was the costs specifically in Section E? That is not prepaids not escrow, yes government recording costs and taxes (if applicable). That is indeed a cost for refinancing. That said, it wouldn’t deter me from proceeding between the old and new loan.

[word]

Diisclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Good deal word! What was the costs specifically in Section E? That is not prepaids not escrow, yes government recording costs and taxes (if applicable). That is indeed a cost for refinancing. That said, it wouldn’t deter me from proceeding between the old and new loan.

D is the same as ABC: $825.52
For some reason credits in that section aren't specified as 'lender credits' even though they are.... credits.... from the lender.

So credits from ABC are: $1,289.92

So net -$464.40 (credit to me)

For anyone wanting to see the entire fees page click here.

[BrandonBogle]

Diisclosure info:
Costs (A+B+C): 825.52 (did not shop)
Other Costs (E+F+G+H): 5004.79
Paid by Others: 1289.92 (I don't really understand where this lender credit come from.... but )

Good deal word! What was the costs specifically in Section E? That is not prepaids not escrow, yes government recording costs and taxes (if applicable). That is indeed a cost for refinancing. That said, it wouldn’t deter me from proceeding between the old and new loan.

D is the same as ABC: $825.52
For some reason credits in that section aren't specified as 'lender credits' even though they are.... credits.... from the lender.

So credits from ABC are: $1,289.92

So net -$464.40 (credit to me)

For anyone wanting to see the entire fees page click here.

I was actually asking about Section E, but since you included the screenshot, I got the info: $98.

That is a very weird way of listing lender credits. They aren't paid by you though, so who cares!

So you net cost is actually -$366.40 , which is still a great deal. Like I said, I doubted the Section E fee was going to materially change anything. Always good when you refi with no net cost.

[Rayandron]

Also in the process of refinancing and wanted to do a sanity check. Currently have a 3.875% 30-year fixed with a mid 700s balance from mid-2018. NFCU is offering 3.25% with:

• $0 lender fees
• $3k in 3rd party fees ($1460 title lender's coverage, $470 settlement attorney, $350 title service fee, & $640 appraisal (the last of which might get waived)
• $2k in government fees
• $7k of pre-paids/escrows

I've called Chase, an independent broker, and 1 or 2 other places and haven't found anybody else with a lower interest rate at no points (~820 credit score to the extent that matters). I'm getting a 1 year breakeven on Nerdwallet's refinance calculator if I put the parameters in correctly. I'm a bit jealous when I see lots of folks getting sub-3% rates on their non-jumbo loans, but that's just the way the jumbo market is right now I guess. Regardless, this is still a no-brainer right?

[BrandonBogle]

rayandron,

I’ve seen plenty of VA loan offers for 2.75% (didn’t keep track if they were 15-year or 30-year though). Have you cross-shopped getting a VA loan from places other than Navy Federal?

[Rayandron]

rayandron,

I’ve seen plenty of VA loan offers for 2.75% (didn’t keep track if they were 15-year or 30-year though). Have you cross-shopped getting a VA loan from places other than Navy Federal?

Don't have access to VA loans as I'm not a veteran. Am an NFCU member due to my parents' service.

[BrandonBogle]

rayandron,

I’ve seen plenty of VA loan offers for 2.75% (didn’t keep track if they were 15-year or 30-year though). Have you cross-shopped getting a VA loan from places other than Navy Federal?

Don't have access to VA loans as I'm not a veteran. Am an NFCU member due to my parents' service.

Ahh, gotcha. I thought this was a VA loan. If it’s a conventional, I’m also surprised you are getting those terms vs. an offer closer to some of the others on this thread. It may be worthwhile to try some of the other lenders mentioned in this thread and see if you can get a more competitive offer.

[frankandbeans]

Also in the process of refinancing and wanted to do a sanity check. Currently have a 3.875% 30-year fixed with a mid 700s balance from mid-2018. NFCU is offering 3.25% with:

• $0 lender fees
• $3k in 3rd party fees ($1460 title lender's coverage, $470 settlement attorney, $350 title service fee, & $640 appraisal (the last of which might get waived)
• $2k in government fees
• $7k of pre-paids/escrows

I've called Chase, an independent broker, and 1 or 2 other places and haven't found anybody else with a lower interest rate at no points (~820 credit score to the extent that matters). I'm getting a 1 year breakeven on Nerdwallet's refinance calculator if I put the parameters in correctly. I'm a bit jealous when I see lots of folks getting sub-3% rates on their non-jumbo loans, but that's just the way the jumbo market is right now I guess. Regardless, this is still a no-brainer right?

To answer your actual question, I wouldn't quite say it's a no brainer because you'll be OOP $5k and so that'll be a cost you have to absorb if the jumbo market normalizes and goes back to somewhere near parity with the conventional market, and causes you to want to refi again in, say, six months. For reference, I locked a jumbo refi at 3.125 with a credit covering all costs in early March, going from a 3.75. That to me was a no brainer. This, I would say is reasonable but not a no brainer. It would also be reasonable to wait and keep shopping and try to find something with credits to cover costs or with a lower rate.

[ma21n2]

When you submit an application to LenderFi.com, Owning.com, Rate.com, etc., how long do they usually take to generate a Loan Estimate? Better.com was able to instantly generate one (but rates weren't competitive), but I'm not sure if that's the norm.

[BrandonBogle]

When you submit an application to LenderFi.com, Owning.com, Rate.com, etc., how long do they usually take to generate a Loan Estimate? Better.com was able to instantly generate one (but rates weren't competitive), but I'm not sure if that's the norm.

If they consider you to have formally applied, they are legally required to send you one within 3 business days. "Send" includes dropping it in US Mail. I got tons of LEs from places I checked about a week or two later. They came in droves as I applied at over 10 or so places.

That said, I don't know where the line is drawn for "formally applied". In each of my cases, a credit pull was performed. However, I don't know if lenders may pull your credit and not call it an application. They may simply punch in your zip code, property value, etc. in for costs associated with the rate tables doing a quote. That does NOT require them to send an LE.

[ma21n2]

When you submit an application to LenderFi.com, Owning.com, Rate.com, etc., how long do they usually take to generate a Loan Estimate? Better.com was able to instantly generate one (but rates weren't competitive), but I'm not sure if that's the norm.

If they consider you to have formally applied, they are legally required to send you one within 3 business days. "Send" includes dropping it in US Mail. I got tons of LEs from places I checked about a week or two later. They came in droves as I applied at over 10 or so places.

That said, I don't know where the line is drawn for "formally applied". In each of my cases, a credit pull was performed. However, I don't know if lenders may pull your credit and not call it an application. They may simply punch in your zip code, property value, etc. in for costs associated with the rate tables doing a quote. That does NOT require them to send an LE.

Thanks. When shopping around, is it advised to get individual quotes with a credit pull? I've been just comparing rates based on rate quotes that only require answering a few questions without a credit pull (Better.com being the sole exception, but they were only doing a soft credit pull).

[BrandonBogle]

Thanks. When shopping around, is it advised to get individual quotes with a credit pull? I've been just comparing rates based on rate quotes that only require answering a few questions without a credit pull (Better.com being the sole exception, but they were only doing a soft credit pull).

You will find many lenders unwilling to provide a Loan Estimate without at least a soft pull. If they are just doing quotes vs. an app, they have no obligation to provide a LE.

[Familyman2012]

Can someone explain briefly in layman terms what and how UWM works?

UWM is a wholesale lender. They will NOT work with you directly. Instead, they are basically the investor for a mortgage one of their member brokers originate.

By cutting out the expenses of working directly with the clients and having a pipeline of brokers originating for them, they are planning on making money by volume.

Often wholesalers will have the best rates, but then the person originating for them needs to make money too, so there will be fees associated with getting the mortgage (though they can be offset with credits).

Thank you Brandon

I've never heard of UWM so I didn't know if it was a scam or what not. or if its one of those to good to be true thing.

[2quiker]

Before closing you suppose to receive a closing\settlement statement a few days before closing correct?
I have only received a closing disclose from Better.

[BrandonBogle]

I've never heard of UWM so I didn't know if it was a scam or what not. or if its one of those to good to be true thing.

Yeah, not a too good to be true, but very strict on their member brokers. This Conquest program they have going only allows for rate locks from 8-22 days vs. the more typical 30, 45, or 60. Thus, the broker needs to work very quickly or they have to pay exorbitant fees per day to keep the rate you were offered. Many brokers are just not set up or capable of working that fast. This goes back to UWM wanting to be a volume lender. They want people who can originate the loans quickly.

[BrandonBogle]

Before closing you suppose to receive a closing\settlement statement a few days before closing correct?
I have only received a closing disclose from Better.

For a couple years now, page 2 of the Closing Disclosure is permitted to be used in lieu of a HUD-1 settlement statement. My last two lenders, Better and PenFed (for my refi, but not purchase mortgage), did this. If this is the form you are asking about, the “Final” Closing Disclosure (not the initial one before you schedule closing) will likely be what is used.

[2quiker]

Before closing you suppose to receive a closing\settlement statement a few days before closing correct?
I have only received a closing disclose from Better.

For a couple years now, page 2 of the Closing Disclosure is permitted to be used in lieu of a HUD-1 settlement statement. My last two lenders, Better and PenFed (for my refi, but not purchase mortgage), did this. If this is the form you are asking about, the “Final” Closing Disclosure (not the initial one before you schedule closing) will likely be what is used.

Ok, I didn't realize that the closing disclosure were permitted to be used. I've requested a closing\settlement statement few times and Better has not once mentioned that Closing Disclosures are permitted. The other issue I am having is they wont' change the title company that I have requested. They stated that company A is doing the escrow which I understand but I wanted to go with a different title company because their fees are less. I have asked them to fix it on the disclosure but I not got a response...

[BrandonBogle]

Ok, I didn't realize that the closing disclosure were permitted to be used. I've requested a closing\settlement statement few times and Better has not once mentioned that Closing Disclosures are permitted. The other issue I am having is they wont' change the title company that I have requested. They stated that company A is doing the escrow which I understand but I wanted to go with a different title company because their fees are less. I have asked them to fix it on the disclosure but I not got a response...

I’ve seen some other mentions of this. The recommendation is to call (so you actually speak with the person on the phone) your closing expert and explain you want company XYZ because of their pricing is $ABC less than Better Settlement Services. Often, they will discount BSS’s fees to match the other company so they can keep working with their preferred partner (an affiliated company btw).

For me, I didn’t bother as BSS was only $25 more expensive. But I’ve seen others say they got $500 knocked off that way.

[teCh0010]

Current Loan - 3.875 30 year from mid 2018. 330k balance, 490k property.

New Loan (Rate Locked) : 3% with $812 in credits at Better.com (After having them match consumer direct costco)
Box A - 0
Box B - 614
Box C - 1919

Box E,F,G,H - 4182
Lender Credits - 812

They will waive the appraisal out of box B as part of the Amex offer, and I will get the targeted statement credit as well.

Has anyone shopped the title company costs in box C and brought in their own title company cheaper, or is it easier to roll with what betterment brings. Is one title company as good as the other?

[BrandonBogle]

Box A - 0
Box B - 614
Box C - 1919

Box E,F,G,H - 4182
Lender Credits - 812

Note that Box E is something you don’t pay if you continue paying your mortgage. So if you ever look back at what the refi cost you, lump E with A, B, C.

Might I inquire as to what kind of charge is in H?

Has anyone shopped the title company costs in box C and brought in their own title company cheaper

Absolutely

or is it easier to roll with what betterment brings. Is one title company as good as the other?

You asked title company, and my answer to that is “not really”. However, what I think you really mean was settlement agent/lawyer. If so, then wholeheartedly there is a difference in quality and how well one works. BSS isn’t bad, but I’ve experienced better. I know people who have experienced far worse.

[edudumb]

Before closing you suppose to receive a closing\settlement statement a few days before closing correct?
I have only received a closing disclose from Better.

For a couple years now, page 2 of the Closing Disclosure is permitted to be used in lieu of a HUD-1 settlement statement. My last two lenders, Better and PenFed (for my refi, but not purchase mortgage), did this. If this is the form you are asking about, the “Final” Closing Disclosure (not the initial one before you schedule closing) will likely be what is used.

Ok, I didn't realize that the closing disclosure were permitted to be used. I've requested a closing\settlement statement few times and Better has not once mentioned that Closing Disclosures are permitted. The other issue I am having is they wont' change the title company that I have requested. They stated that company A is doing the escrow which I understand but I wanted to go with a different title company because their fees are less. I have asked them to fix it on the disclosure but I not got a response...

We shopped for our title company ourselves. Better charges $450; we shopped for a local one and it cost only $150 (it was $200 but we asked for a discount). The thing was that Better.com proceeded with title request right away after we locked, we had to stop them and pass our title company info to them.

[teCh0010]

Box A - 0
Box B - 614
Box C - 1919

Box E,F,G,H - 4182
Lender Credits - 812

Note that Box E is something you don’t pay if you continue paying your mortgage. So if you ever look back at what the refi cost you, lump E with A, B, C.

Might I inquire as to what kind of charge is in H?

Has anyone shopped the title company costs in box C and brought in their own title company cheaper

Absolutely

or is it easier to roll with what betterment brings. Is one title company as good as the other?

You asked title company, and my answer to that is “not really”. However, what I think you really mean was settlement agent/lawyer. If so, then wholeheartedly there is a difference in quality and how well one works. BSS isn’t bad, but I’ve experienced better. I know people who have experienced far worse.

Box H is empty.

Here is the Box C "You can shop for this" break down.

Title-Closing Protection Letter $100
Title-Endorsements $25
Title-Lenders Title Insurance $1,194
Title-Search Abstract $100
Title-Settlement Fee $500

Is there an online guide on how to cross shop and bring these fees down? Are these all at to one title company, or split across multiple entities. This is the first time we have refinanced.

[2quiker]

Before closing you suppose to receive a closing\settlement statement a few days before closing correct?
I have only received a closing disclose from Better.

For a couple years now, page 2 of the Closing Disclosure is permitted to be used in lieu of a HUD-1 settlement statement. My last two lenders, Better and PenFed (for my refi, but not purchase mortgage), did this. If this is the form you are asking about, the “Final” Closing Disclosure (not the initial one before you schedule closing) will likely be what is used.

Ok, I didn't realize that the closing disclosure were permitted to be used. I've requested a closing\settlement statement few times and Better has not once mentioned that Closing Disclosures are permitted. The other issue I am having is they wont' change the title company that I have requested. They stated that company A is doing the escrow which I understand but I wanted to go with a different title company because their fees are less. I have asked them to fix it on the disclosure but I not got a response...

We shopped for our title company ourselves. Better charges $450; we shopped for a local one and it cost only $150 (it was $200 but we asked for a discount). The thing was that Better.com proceeded with title request right away after we locked, we had to stop them and pass our title company info to them.

I did the same right after I locked with them but they seem to ignore my request. I asked to have a manager contact because the closing was suppose to happen today and I feel like the closing person has not been straight up with me. I told them to have a manger call me or I am backing out, we were suppose to close today but that's not going to happen. Bad this is I got quote with other companies and my credit report has took some hard inquiries hits.

[barberakb]

Update, While everything has gone relatively smoothly with Northpointe Bank and I still rec them, we close next week on a 15 yr fixed 2.5% no pts.
We locked our rate on April 17. They told us 35-40 days to close. If we close on our scheduled apt it will be 55 days later...

[edudumb]

Before closing you suppose to receive a closing\settlement statement a few days before closing correct?
I have only received a closing disclose from Better.

For a couple years now, page 2 of the Closing Disclosure is permitted to be used in lieu of a HUD-1 settlement statement. My last two lenders, Better and PenFed (for my refi, but not purchase mortgage), did this. If this is the form you are asking about, the “Final” Closing Disclosure (not the initial one before you schedule closing) will likely be what is used.

Ok, I didn't realize that the closing disclosure were permitted to be used. I've requested a closing\settlement statement few times and Better has not once mentioned that Closing Disclosures are permitted. The other issue I am having is they wont' change the title company that I have requested. They stated that company A is doing the escrow which I understand but I wanted to go with a different title company because their fees are less. I have asked them to fix it on the disclosure but I not got a response...

We shopped for our title company ourselves. Better charges $450; we shopped for a local one and it cost only $150 (it was $200 but we asked for a discount). The thing was that Better.com proceeded with title request right away after we locked, we had to stop them and pass our title company info to them.

I did the same right after I locked with them but they seem to ignore my request. I asked to have a manager contact because the closing was suppose to happen today and I feel like the closing person has not been straight up with me. I told them to have a manger call me or I am backing out, we were suppose to close today but that's not going to happen. Bad this is I got quote with other companies and my credit report has took some hard inquiries hits.

Sounds like they've already proceeded with their title company instead of the one you found? Can you just schedule a call with them (on the web, go to your team, find the person you wanted to talk to, and you can see what time they're available to call)?