Losing a job in your 50's...

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
ScoobyDoo
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:51 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by ScoobyDoo »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:09 am
The lion's share of the lifetime earnings advantage that a college education can provide is among those majoring in medicine, law, STEM, and business. Those majoring in 16th century Italian poetry and the like can easily get negative financial value from going to college.
Welp, there goes my dream of being a FI “16th century Italian poetry” graduate at age 55! 😵😳😳😳
ScoobyDoo!
User avatar
rob
Posts: 5236
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by rob »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:47 pm
wander wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:48 am If I lose a job in my 50s, I would retire.
My plan is 52, so I'm hoping that I beat them to the punch. 8-)
You want them to get you just at the end.... When you go to hand in your notice you want strangers from HR with an envelope in hand :-) When I was a 30 something idiot my mid 50's boss got a package and I couldn't understand why he has so ecstatic... He had the healthcare & pension for life, they paid him almost a year's severance and payed out a stack of PTO... Could not get the smile off his face - I understand completely with the benefit of time.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 32250
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by willthrill81 »

rob wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:08 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:47 pm
wander wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:48 am If I lose a job in my 50s, I would retire.
My plan is 52, so I'm hoping that I beat them to the punch. 8-)
You want them to get you just at the end.... When you go to hand in your notice you want strangers from HR with an envelope in hand :-) When I was a 30 something idiot my mid 50's boss got a package and I couldn't understand why he has so ecstatic... He had the healthcare & pension for life, they paid him almost a year's severance and payed out a stack of PTO... Could not get the smile off his face - I understand completely with the benefit of time.
:thumbsup
The Sensible Steward
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:55 pm
Again, I'm not opposed to higher ed; I'm a professor after all. But I've personally witnessed the reality that it's not the optimal path for everyone. That's all.

Back to the context of the thread, many very well-intentioned parents have likely sacrificed too much retirement security to fund their kids' college expenses. But becoming boomerang parents or worse later on is probably not what they or their kids want.
There are no optimal paths for everyone. Not even a three fund portfolio...
OnTrack2020
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:24 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by OnTrack2020 »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:29 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:09 am
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:02 amBut however you manage it the kids should go to college whether its through a loan, 529 or drawing down 401K.
Despite me being a college professor, I have to say that this is just plain wrong. Not everyone is 'college material', and many current college graduates will do worse financially than at least some of those who never attended college at all. For instance, a cousin of mine wasn't a good fit for college, and he's now making six-figures with hefty per diems as a 20-something working as a welder (and saving the bulk of his income).

The lion's share of the lifetime earnings advantage that a college education can provide is among those majoring in medicine, law, STEM, and business. Those majoring in 16th century Italian poetry and the like can easily get negative financial value from going to college.
The idea that everybody should go to college is a significant component of the education debt problem. Millions of people who college was not the best option for, told their entire life that college is the only option, are now saddled with debt and no degree. I have a 17yr old sister, all of us (mom and stepdad, all her 6 siblings) are recommending that she not go to college, at least straight out of high school. I wish some of her teachers/academic advisors would even suggest that someone who has already been held back, has worked really hard in attempt to stay eligible for sports (2.0 GPA), and has scored well below median on standardized tests should consider other options, but of course all they do is talk to her about college.

Interestingly, she's worked at Del Taco for over a year, is already a shift manager, and has saved quite a bit of money to pay for college (parents are in no position to help).
Elementary students participate in "College Week" and then the week ends with them "graduating" with parents invited to attend. It's nonsense. Our society wouldn't function if everyone were a doctor or engineer or scientist, etc.
User avatar
winterfan
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by winterfan »

ondarvr wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:17 pm Even with good planning things can go sideways.

My wife and I had good paying jobs and we saved enough to be FI before I turned 65. Started late, I had to change to a different carrier at 40 to make it happen. My wife went back to school at 40 to become an RN.

Just before I turned 59 my wife got sepsis and was in critical care for a month, many operations later she was sent to a care center for continuing treatment.

During that time we had a record flood that destroyed our property, it went from $500,000 + to almost zero in value. (Owed $125,000)

The week I brought her home I got a call from HR. Due to the recent sale of the company 70% of the employees were being laid off, and I was one of them.

We went from a well paid working couple with a good net worth and a plan, to unemployed, no equity in our home and with steep medical debt that was increasing every day. (Wife still had nurses visiting several times per week, and I supplied the required 24/7 care.)

We liquidated much of our savings to get through the next year. I took a job making a little less money, but I didn't need to move, there were higher paying options if I relocated, but my wife's health didn't allow it.

Now 5 years later, sold my property to the county, relocated and paid cash for a house where the prices are much lower, have a great job with an even better boss, maxing out the 401K, plus additional investments.

Wife never went back to work, she's on disability now, took a few years to get that in place.

I'm behind where I could have been, but could retire in good shape if needed next year.

I plan to work longer because I enjoy it, but I don't count on it as being in my control.
Wow! I'm glad to hear your wife is doing better and you have recovered from this spate of bad events!
getthatmarshmallow
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:43 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:09 am
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:02 amBut however you manage it the kids should go to college whether its through a loan, 529 or drawing down 401K.
Despite me being a college professor, I have to say that this is just plain wrong. Not everyone is 'college material', and many current college graduates will do worse financially than at least some of those who never attended college at all. For instance, a cousin of mine wasn't a good fit for college, and he's now making six-figures with hefty per diems as a 20-something working as a welder (and saving the bulk of his income).

The lion's share of the lifetime earnings advantage that a college education can provide is among those majoring in medicine, law, STEM, and business. Those majoring in 16th century Italian poetry and the like can easily get negative financial value from going to college.
I agree that students need to concern themselves with employability, whatever the field, but can we stop pretending that there are undergraduate majors in highly specialized subfields in the humanities or that such fictional programs represent the bulk of unemployed graduates?

As to the bigger question, I agree that not everyone aiming for a middle class life should aim at college, but the alternatives aren't there in a lot of cases. The trades, sure, but they also require education, handy skills, and physical strength (and in many cases, being a man.) Spouse worked in the trades for a while and in some places they recruited no one local could take the jobs because they couldn't pass the drug test, or because they didn't want to leave town for work. We need manufacturing yesterday.
livelovelaugh00
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by livelovelaugh00 »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:30 am
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:12 am

Yes. You still use what's in 529s for college. That has the highest probability of a positive ROI that gets your family back on track. It is also the highest probability of a positive outcome for yourself unless you think the kids will abandon you.

You can't really afford not to send your kids to college in this scenario....it doesn't really matter whether the money sits in a 529 or a 401K. Spend less than $300K if you can using some of the strategies I listed above but the only way out of this scenario is to maximize the potential human capital in your kids.
nigel_ht,

In summary, you believe that even if the parents have to lose their house and live on the street and starve, they should still pay for a college education. I disagreed.


A reasonable person will let the kid take the student loan.

<<That has the highest probability of a positive ROI that gets your family back on track.>>

If the ROI is there, the kids can take a student loan. The parents need the money to feed the family.


The kids can borrow for college education. The parent cannot borrow for retirement.

KlangFool
There's student loan. There's no such a thing as retirement loan.
ncbill
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by ncbill »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm
ncbill wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:51 pm "letting the kid borrow" means parents co-signing a lot o' loans...can unemployed parents actually qualify as co-signers for sufficient loans to cover tuition/fees/room & board?
Between my wife and myself, we took out about $30k of student loans and never had a parent cosign for any of them. Perhaps the dollar amount involved was too low to necessitate cosigning.
the $5,500 an incoming freshman can borrow on their own (without other adults co-signing) won't go very far towards both tuition & fees at most schools.
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 32250
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by willthrill81 »

getthatmarshmallow wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:27 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:09 am
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:02 amBut however you manage it the kids should go to college whether its through a loan, 529 or drawing down 401K.
Despite me being a college professor, I have to say that this is just plain wrong. Not everyone is 'college material', and many current college graduates will do worse financially than at least some of those who never attended college at all. For instance, a cousin of mine wasn't a good fit for college, and he's now making six-figures with hefty per diems as a 20-something working as a welder (and saving the bulk of his income).

The lion's share of the lifetime earnings advantage that a college education can provide is among those majoring in medicine, law, STEM, and business. Those majoring in 16th century Italian poetry and the like can easily get negative financial value from going to college.
I agree that students need to concern themselves with employability, whatever the field, but can we stop pretending that there are undergraduate majors in highly specialized subfields in the humanities or that such fictional programs represent the bulk of unemployed graduates?
I merely reference 16th century Italian poetry, which is only slightly more 'out there' than some majors, to try to avoid stepping on toes.

My point is that a substantial number of college students are not likely to have better financial outcomes than those who don't go to college, probably around 25%. This has been the case for decades, and the Fed has explicitly noted it.
Overall, these figures suggest that perhaps a quarter of those who earn a bachelor’s degree pay the costs to attend school but reap little, if any, economic benefit. In fact, once the costs of attending college are considered, it is likely that earning a bachelor’s degree would not have been a good investment for many in the lowest 25 percent of college graduate wage earners. So while a college degree appears to be a good investment on average, it may not pay off for everyone.
https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkf ... ryone.html

Image

So if around 25% of college freshmen never graduate (see discussion above) and 25% of the 75% who graduate don't benefit financially, then college only seems likely to create a meaningful financial benefit for a little over half of those who start. When did we ever read an article that said that?

Of course, not everyone goes to college for the sole purpose of increasing their lifetime earnings, but that's certainly the case for most. And I suspect that most parents would be less willing to sacrifice their retirement security to fund their kids' college expenses if they didn't think that doing so would be financially beneficial to their kids.
The Sensible Steward
Wrench
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:21 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Wrench »

ncbill wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:45 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm
ncbill wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:51 pm "letting the kid borrow" means parents co-signing a lot o' loans...can unemployed parents actually qualify as co-signers for sufficient loans to cover tuition/fees/room & board?
Between my wife and myself, we took out about $30k of student loans and never had a parent cosign for any of them. Perhaps the dollar amount involved was too low to necessitate cosigning.
the $5,500 an incoming freshman can borrow on their own (without other adults co-signing) won't go very far towards both tuition & fees at most schools.
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of undergrad student loans as we cash-flowed all three of our kids college educations. But when it came to graduate school, my daughter asked if I would co-sign her loans and I politely declined. She was still able to borrow over 6 figures to pay for her law school education just on her signature alone. Fortunately, she now has a good job and is chipping away at retiring that debt, though it likely won't be paid off until she is 40 or older. Was it a good investment? She asks herself that everyday, though I think in the long run it will have been. Time will tell...

Wrench
Wrench
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:21 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Wrench »

willthrill81 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 am
getthatmarshmallow wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:27 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:09 am
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:02 amBut however you manage it the kids should go to college whether its through a loan, 529 or drawing down 401K.
Despite me being a college professor, I have to say that this is just plain wrong. Not everyone is 'college material', and many current college graduates will do worse financially than at least some of those who never attended college at all. For instance, a cousin of mine wasn't a good fit for college, and he's now making six-figures with hefty per diems as a 20-something working as a welder (and saving the bulk of his income).

The lion's share of the lifetime earnings advantage that a college education can provide is among those majoring in medicine, law, STEM, and business. Those majoring in 16th century Italian poetry and the like can easily get negative financial value from going to college.
I agree that students need to concern themselves with employability, whatever the field, but can we stop pretending that there are undergraduate majors in highly specialized subfields in the humanities or that such fictional programs represent the bulk of unemployed graduates?
I merely reference 16th century Italian poetry, which is only slightly more 'out there' than some majors, to try to avoid stepping on toes.

My point is that a substantial number of college students are not likely to have better financial outcomes than those who don't go to college, probably around 25%. This has been the case for decades, and the Fed has explicitly noted it.
Overall, these figures suggest that perhaps a quarter of those who earn a bachelor’s degree pay the costs to attend school but reap little, if any, economic benefit. In fact, once the costs of attending college are considered, it is likely that earning a bachelor’s degree would not have been a good investment for many in the lowest 25 percent of college graduate wage earners. So while a college degree appears to be a good investment on average, it may not pay off for everyone.
https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkf ... ryone.html

Image

So if around 25% of college freshmen never graduate (see discussion above) and 25% of the 75% who graduate don't benefit financially, then college only seems likely to create a meaningful financial benefit for a little over half of those who start. When did we ever read an article that said that?

Of course, not everyone goes to college for the sole purpose of increasing their lifetime earnings, but that's certainly the case for most. And I suspect that most parents would be less willing to sacrifice their retirement security to fund their kids' college expenses if they didn't think that doing so would be financially beneficial to their kids.
Maybe I'm an oddball and way out there, but I never once considered the financial implications of the major my kids chose in college. To me, paying for college was no different than any other parental obligation to my children. Likely that's because In my family going back generations, getting at least a college education was expected, and an advanced degree beyond it was preferred. My grandfather's sister was a contemporary of Madam Curie, and a Ph.D biologist that did research for over 60 years. She was considered the one to emulate in my family, so much so that when my mother announced her engagement to my father, her father was reportedly disappointed because she would not be able to continue in science (this was in the 1940s). She proved him wrong and was a very early computer programmer in the late 50s/early 60s. In our family culture, not going to college was just never an option.

Every situation is different as is every family. But personally, I would never tell my kids to let some statistic about who graduates, or how much money they might make decide how they want to spend their life. I do encourage them to consider all options, financial and personal, and then when they choose, I love and support them in whatever path they choose.

Wrench
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by stoptothink »

Wrench wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:26 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 am
getthatmarshmallow wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:27 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:09 am
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:02 amBut however you manage it the kids should go to college whether its through a loan, 529 or drawing down 401K.
Despite me being a college professor, I have to say that this is just plain wrong. Not everyone is 'college material', and many current college graduates will do worse financially than at least some of those who never attended college at all. For instance, a cousin of mine wasn't a good fit for college, and he's now making six-figures with hefty per diems as a 20-something working as a welder (and saving the bulk of his income).

The lion's share of the lifetime earnings advantage that a college education can provide is among those majoring in medicine, law, STEM, and business. Those majoring in 16th century Italian poetry and the like can easily get negative financial value from going to college.
I agree that students need to concern themselves with employability, whatever the field, but can we stop pretending that there are undergraduate majors in highly specialized subfields in the humanities or that such fictional programs represent the bulk of unemployed graduates?
I merely reference 16th century Italian poetry, which is only slightly more 'out there' than some majors, to try to avoid stepping on toes.

My point is that a substantial number of college students are not likely to have better financial outcomes than those who don't go to college, probably around 25%. This has been the case for decades, and the Fed has explicitly noted it.
Overall, these figures suggest that perhaps a quarter of those who earn a bachelor’s degree pay the costs to attend school but reap little, if any, economic benefit. In fact, once the costs of attending college are considered, it is likely that earning a bachelor’s degree would not have been a good investment for many in the lowest 25 percent of college graduate wage earners. So while a college degree appears to be a good investment on average, it may not pay off for everyone.
https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkf ... ryone.html

Image

So if around 25% of college freshmen never graduate (see discussion above) and 25% of the 75% who graduate don't benefit financially, then college only seems likely to create a meaningful financial benefit for a little over half of those who start. When did we ever read an article that said that?

Of course, not everyone goes to college for the sole purpose of increasing their lifetime earnings, but that's certainly the case for most. And I suspect that most parents would be less willing to sacrifice their retirement security to fund their kids' college expenses if they didn't think that doing so would be financially beneficial to their kids.
Maybe I'm an oddball and way out there, but I never once considered the financial implications of the major my kids chose in college. To me, paying for college was no different than any other parental obligation to my children. Likely that's because In my family going back generations, getting at least a college education was expected, and an advanced degree beyond it was preferred. My grandfather's sister was a contemporary of Madam Curie, and a Ph.D biologist that did research for over 60 years. She was considered the one to emulate in my family, so much so that when my mother announced her engagement to my father, her father was reportedly disappointed because she would not be able to continue in science (this was in the 1940s). She proved him wrong and was a very early computer programmer in the late 50s/early 60s. In our family culture, not going to college was just never an option.

Every situation is different as is every family. But personally, I would never tell my kids to let some statistic about who graduates, or how much money they might make decide how they want to spend their life. I do encourage them to consider all options, financial and personal, and then when they choose, I love and support them in whatever path they choose.

Wrench
I grew up in a totally different environment, I was the first person in my family to even graduate high school (neither parent or my older brother did). College was not an expectation and it was never even a consideration that there was money to help. Most of those around me were in similar situations. For those who were raised in such environment yeah, there was definitely some thought into major as far as financial implications.

I've noticed a pretty drastic stratification regarding thoughts on college (whether it is a parent's responsibility to fund it, importance of major, etc.) based upon the situation posters were raised in.
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

willthrill81 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 am I merely reference 16th century Italian poetry, which is only slightly more 'out there' than some majors, to try to avoid stepping on toes.
Your colleagues would still be unamused.
So if around 25% of college freshmen never graduate (see discussion above) and 25% of the 75% who graduate don't benefit financially, then college only seems likely to create a meaningful financial benefit for a little over half of those who start. When did we ever read an article that said that?

Of course, not everyone goes to college for the sole purpose of increasing their lifetime earnings, but that's certainly the case for most. And I suspect that most parents would be less willing to sacrifice their retirement security to fund their kids' college expenses if they didn't think that doing so would be financially beneficial to their kids.
Well...I have discussions with other parents who have prepared and saved for the highly ranked local state university only for their kids to pick a lower ranked, more expensive, private school in some oddball major and need to scramble where I have to hold my tongue from blurting out "What are you thinking? Just say no" or "Are you nuts? They're going to be living in your basement until they are 40"...
User avatar
You Know What I Mean
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:27 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by You Know What I Mean »

nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:54 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 am I merely reference 16th century Italian poetry, which is only slightly more 'out there' than some majors, to try to avoid stepping on toes.
Your colleagues would still be unamused.
So if around 25% of college freshmen never graduate (see discussion above) and 25% of the 75% who graduate don't benefit financially, then college only seems likely to create a meaningful financial benefit for a little over half of those who start. When did we ever read an article that said that?

Of course, not everyone goes to college for the sole purpose of increasing their lifetime earnings, but that's certainly the case for most. And I suspect that most parents would be less willing to sacrifice their retirement security to fund their kids' college expenses if they didn't think that doing so would be financially beneficial to their kids.
Well...I have discussions with other parents who have prepared and saved for the highly ranked local state university only for their kids to pick a lower ranked, more expensive, private school in some oddball major and need to scramble where I have to hold my tongue from blurting out "What are you thinking? Just say no" or "Are you nuts? They're going to be living in your basement until they are 40"...
Perhaps you shouldn't hold your tongue. (I am saying this only half in jest.)
"Well, she was just seventeen, You Know What I Mean, and the way she looked... was way beyond compare."
User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 32250
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by willthrill81 »

nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:54 pm Well...I have discussions with other parents who have prepared and saved for the highly ranked local state university only for their kids to pick a lower ranked, more expensive, private school in some oddball major and need to scramble where I have to hold my tongue from blurting out "What are you thinking? Just say no" or "Are you nuts? They're going to be living in your basement until they are 40"...
I think that we should be able to agree that much of that sort of behavior is fueled by ignorance and false information (e.g., 'the major doesn't matter; just get a college degree').
The Sensible Steward
getthatmarshmallow
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:43 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

willthrill81 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:20 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:54 pm Well...I have discussions with other parents who have prepared and saved for the highly ranked local state university only for their kids to pick a lower ranked, more expensive, private school in some oddball major and need to scramble where I have to hold my tongue from blurting out "What are you thinking? Just say no" or "Are you nuts? They're going to be living in your basement until they are 40"...
I think that we should be able to agree that much of that sort of behavior is fueled by ignorance and false information (e.g., 'the major doesn't matter; just get a college degree').
That advice was true in my parents' generation (70s) but definitely not now.

Personally, I think it depends on a) the prestige of your institution and b) how good you are. If you're at HYP, study the classics and go work in investment banking. (Not a hypothetical.) If you're the best in the world at musicology, you'll find a job. If you're the proverbial #2 Proust scholar, you have to be a lot more careful. There are more jobs for mediocre accountants and programmers than there are mediocre art historians. It requires a lot of self awareness.
dcabler
Posts: 4482
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:30 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by dcabler »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:16 pm
rob wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:08 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:47 pm
wander wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:48 am If I lose a job in my 50s, I would retire.
My plan is 52, so I'm hoping that I beat them to the punch. 8-)
You want them to get you just at the end.... When you go to hand in your notice you want strangers from HR with an envelope in hand :-) When I was a 30 something idiot my mid 50's boss got a package and I couldn't understand why he has so ecstatic... He had the healthcare & pension for life, they paid him almost a year's severance and payed out a stack of PTO... Could not get the smile off his face - I understand completely with the benefit of time.
:thumbsup
Sounds like the comment somebody made about the look on my face when, in my early 50's, I received notice for a company I had spent over 2 decades with - It was over a year's severance. It was part of a WARN act notification, so I was still being fully paid for the next 3 months and didn't have to come into the office. Sadly, no pension or lifetime healthcare, so I still had to work and had the next gig lined up by the time the 3 months ended. But I have to say - the package alone will have significantly reduced the number of years I need to work before I retire.

Real life is lumpy, or at least it has been for me. In my industry things like ESPP, RSU's (and stock options before that), and bonuses happen. No, it would be silly to plan on them happening, but it's nice when they do. These days, any gains from those things go straight to my taxable brokerage account since I've been maxing out my 401K for decades. On the education side of things, when my daughter was a year old, I got a timely bonus which was sufficient for me to purchase a contract in the original TX Tomorrow Fund where I purchased a 5 year contract. Fast forward and our daughter just finished her first sophomore semester and between the TX Tomorrow Fund, a scholarship, and Covid (she's living at home and doing everything online for now), she has excess money.

Besides that, other sources of lumpiness included wife leaving the workforce when kid was born (we had been living on 1 paycheck and 100% saving the other). It also included a lucrative expat assignment for a couple of years. And it also included a 10 month out-of-work period when I was 53 where I was seriously considering either retirement or a complete career change. Fortunately I got the next gig and the one after that, staying in my field. Hope to pull the plug coincident with the kiddo graduating, but if they handed me an envelope today, you'd see the big smile on my face reappear once again!

Cheers.
ncbill
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by ncbill »

Wrench wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:59 pm
ncbill wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:45 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm
ncbill wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:51 pm "letting the kid borrow" means parents co-signing a lot o' loans...can unemployed parents actually qualify as co-signers for sufficient loans to cover tuition/fees/room & board?
Between my wife and myself, we took out about $30k of student loans and never had a parent cosign for any of them. Perhaps the dollar amount involved was too low to necessitate cosigning.
the $5,500 an incoming freshman can borrow on their own (without other adults co-signing) won't go very far towards both tuition & fees at most schools.
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of undergrad student loans as we cash-flowed all three of our kids college educations. But when it came to graduate school, my daughter asked if I would co-sign her loans and I politely declined. She was still able to borrow over 6 figures to pay for her law school education just on her signature alone. Fortunately, she now has a good job and is chipping away at retiring that debt, though it likely won't be paid off until she is 40 or older. Was it a good investment? She asks herself that everyday, though I think in the long run it will have been. Time will tell...

Wrench
Unlike graduate students, undergrads' ability to borrow remains strictly limited...only $5,500 first year on their own, which is not going to go far towards both tuition & room/board...so again, the question is can unemployed parents qualify to co-sign additional loans?
JD2775
Posts: 1503
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:47 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by JD2775 »

I am almost 46 now and this is the reason I have raised my savings rate WAY up over the last few years. I only wish I had started saving seriously when I was younger. Once I hit my 50's I think it will be much harder to find a job should I lose the one I have now. (tech for a megacorp). I want to be prepared for that to happen and not HAVE to work a FT job anymore that I am dependent on. We will see what happens.
User avatar
Elsebet
Posts: 1602
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:28 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Elsebet »

SantaClaraSurfer wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:25 pm Fundamental 50+ insight: Putting the above aside, the bigger mistake that I've made, and seen others make, as well, is to rearview mirror my skills, experience and accomplishments. What an employer cares about, in my experience, is your key functional skillsets for the given role and your appropriateness to be "the hire" and to "join the team" going forward. No amount of "glory days" "seen it all" experience can make up for core competencies in key skillsets, enthusiasm, and a good cultural fit for the role and team.
This is such a good point. So many times when I've worked with older co-workers they go on an on about how they built some ancient app in a neolithic language that is still around or tell old "war stories" over and over. Then they complain when I suggest we use git; they want to keep using some old source control system and not have to learn git.
"...the man who adapts himself to his slender means and makes himself wealthy on a little sum, is the truly rich man..." ~Seneca
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

Elsebet wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:40 pm
SantaClaraSurfer wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:25 pm Fundamental 50+ insight: Putting the above aside, the bigger mistake that I've made, and seen others make, as well, is to rearview mirror my skills, experience and accomplishments. What an employer cares about, in my experience, is your key functional skillsets for the given role and your appropriateness to be "the hire" and to "join the team" going forward. No amount of "glory days" "seen it all" experience can make up for core competencies in key skillsets, enthusiasm, and a good cultural fit for the role and team.
This is such a good point. So many times when I've worked with older co-workers they go on an on about how they built some ancient app in a neolithic language that is still around or tell old "war stories" over and over. Then they complain when I suggest we use git; they want to keep using some old source control system and not have to learn git.
Partly because git sucks and everyone building large scale software (Google, etc) has layered something over it (like repo) to make sub modules and/or sub trees suck less and invariably the results are generally heavyweight and meh.

Or they throw up their hands and use huge monolithic repos that also suck.

For Linus and as a basic dvcs it’s great but so was mercurial. But if you have a distributed component architecture with dozens of repos (aka one per component) submodules are annoying as hell.

Subtrees are okay until you want to push back upstream and realize that you can’t without major hoop jumping if you want the revision history not to be hosed. Which makes that even worse as a solution.

Git is brilliant and terrible at the same time.

Plus, after your tenth revision control system you’re over the shiny...they never freaking pan out to be as good as people say. Which is why invariably number 11 shows up.

And you have companies like Atlassian that screw you over (no more enterprise licenses...you gotta go cloud in three years...gitlab here we come) and so you’re really over learning new tool chains because old brains really aren’t as agile as young brains and none of that really works so much better than you need to switch every single time something shiny comes along.

So do ya really want to spend your now limited brain power learning yet another vcs or something more useful?

In case you’re wondering: sccs, rcs, clearcase, star team, vss, pvcs, cvs, svn, mercurial, git. There are more but these I’ve personally used and I think I forgot a couple...whatever rational had and some DEC system that was on VMS.

But we do need one more iteration to fix the whole “how do I manage a boatload of repos across multiple projects and teams” issue.

Sometimes it seems insanely stupid to have a 50+ freaking repos but other times it makes immense logical sense since it’s mix and match on any new project. The flexibility is awesome and the ability to track issues across projects/customers coupled with the ease to push enhancement upstream and bug fixes downstream really nice.

War stories annoy me too but the key value for old people is that we have f’d things up so many times along our career that we can be the voice of reason to say “no, that’s going to turn out to be a nightmare and I’m not working 80 hrs a week to fix it just ‘cause you want to chase shiny.”

Old managers can’t really do that anymore as they’ve not touched metal in too long but you do want one curmudgeon on the team that’s still agile enough to learn new stuff but has seen how things go pear shaped when you chase shiny. He or she is also there to remind the managers just how well things worked the last time they chased shiny too based on some vendors claim.

The worst folks are the young guns leading their second project without any “seasoned” supervision. IMHO this is where you see the most project failures. But once folks get though their first death march as a lead things usually go better the next time...but they generally aren’t young guns after that either...

Us older folks (the ones that used punch cards in the distant past) are lucky...there weren’t many of us before so the number still coding are more or less what’s actually needed on a team (a handful at most).

For mid career folks today that’s going to be far less true when those folks hit mid-50s.
User avatar
Topic Author
CyclingDuo
Posts: 5989
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:07 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo »

dcabler wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:42 amReal life is lumpy, or at least it has been for me. In my industry things like ESPP, RSU's (and stock options before that), and bonuses happen. No, it would be silly to plan on them happening, but it's nice when they do. These days, any gains from those things go straight to my taxable brokerage account since I've been maxing out my 401K for decades.

Besides that, other sources of lumpiness included wife leaving the workforce when kid was born (we had been living on 1 paycheck and 100% saving the other). It also included a lucrative expat assignment for a couple of years. And it also included a 10 month out-of-work period when I was 53 where I was seriously considering either retirement or a complete career change. Fortunately I got the next gig and the one after that, staying in my field. Hope to pull the plug coincident with the kiddo graduating, but if they handed me an envelope today, you'd see the big smile on my face reappear once again!
That's a good way of saying it - lumpy. :beer

Looks like you have at least had some fun lumps along the way though, such as the nice expat assignment to enjoy living and working in another culture.

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
dcabler
Posts: 4482
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:30 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by dcabler »

CyclingDuo wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:26 am
dcabler wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:42 amReal life is lumpy, or at least it has been for me. In my industry things like ESPP, RSU's (and stock options before that), and bonuses happen. No, it would be silly to plan on them happening, but it's nice when they do. These days, any gains from those things go straight to my taxable brokerage account since I've been maxing out my 401K for decades.

Besides that, other sources of lumpiness included wife leaving the workforce when kid was born (we had been living on 1 paycheck and 100% saving the other). It also included a lucrative expat assignment for a couple of years. And it also included a 10 month out-of-work period when I was 53 where I was seriously considering either retirement or a complete career change. Fortunately I got the next gig and the one after that, staying in my field. Hope to pull the plug coincident with the kiddo graduating, but if they handed me an envelope today, you'd see the big smile on my face reappear once again!
That's a good way of saying it - lumpy. :beer

Looks like you have at least had some fun lumps along the way though, such as the nice expat assignment to enjoy living and working in another culture.

CyclingDuo
LOL - I have indeed had some fun lumps. More fun ones than un-fun ones, thank goodness. And the expat thing I'd count in the top 3 positive experiences in my life, so far! And it turns out that this experience has also helped me career-wise. The employer before my current one is based in Austria and I was hired at least partially because of passable German language skills that I obtained during the expat experience. And with my current employer about 75% of the team that reports to me is based in the Czech Republic. I usually get over there once a quarter and it's now been over a year since I've seen them, for obvious reasons. Really missing it...
User avatar
canadianbacon
Posts: 676
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by canadianbacon »

Great post by Nigel. I’ve always wanted diversity in my teams, including age diversity, because you get the benefit of lessons learned. You do have to find the right kind of person, who is interested and able to learn new things, but that combo pays for itself by limiting costly mistakes.
Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered.
Zeno
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Zeno »

This is a great, but sobering, thread. Or instead of sobering, maybe it is a liberating thread. The Bogleheads generally, and this forum specifically, have helped a lot of folks, including myself.

On this thread's topic though, the following article spoke to me:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ne/590650/

I suspect it has been posted here repeatedly over the years, and if so, I apologize for the inadvertent spam.

My advice, however, is that folks in their 30's doing retirement financial planning read that article.
User avatar
Tubes
Posts: 1881
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:33 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Tubes »

WyomingFIRE wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:12 pm This is a great, but sobering, thread. The Bogleheads generally, and this forum specifically, have helped a lot of folks, including myself.

On this thread's topic, the following article spoke to me:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ne/590650/

I suspect it has been posted here repeatedly over the years, and if so, I apologize for the inadvertent spam.

My advice, however, is that folks in their 30's doing retirement financial planning read that article.
So I haven't been able to read all the posts, yet. I'll do so when I have time. But around age 40, I became aware of the "tech-grinder." I set a goal for retiring at 55. I started visiting this board and early retirement boards and made a plan. Thankfully, my wife at about age 52 felt the same when her job became a grinder. So, we both bailed at 55. 55 is in intentional. For her, it meant health benefits. For me, it meant access to my 401k.

So I decided to "lose" my job by quitting my job. 2 and 1/2 years later (after I retired), megacorp unexpectedly provided an early retirement. If I would have waited, I would have gotten 12 extra months of pay. Boo hoo.

You know what? I don't give a <darn>. I was happy to have those 2.5 yrs free and clear of the <stuff>. So, I say to you tech BHers, you should EXPECT to lose your job in the 50s. So here's the plan. Lose your job on your own terms. You won't regret it.
Last edited by Tubes on Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
iamblessed
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:52 am
Location: St. Louis

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by iamblessed »

If you can work past your 50's you will be let go in your early to mid 60's from what I have seen.
User avatar
Topic Author
CyclingDuo
Posts: 5989
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:07 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo »

WyomingFIRE wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:12 pm This is a great, but sobering, thread. Or instead of sobering, maybe it is a liberating thread. The Bogleheads generally, and this forum specifically, have helped a lot of folks, including myself.
Yes, I guess in a way when one gets beyond the sobering part of the subject - it indeed can be liberating. Especially in the preparation and planning phases for those who have yet to reach their 50's. That being said, I personally will be exiting my 50's this Fall with a new perspective, new experiences under my belt from the past three years, as well as a continuation of my developing transition which is peppered with a nice list of option B's that did not exist a few years ago. :beer
WyomingFIRE wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:12 pmOn this thread's topic though, the following article spoke to me:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ne/590650/

I suspect it has been posted here repeatedly over the years, and if so, I apologize for the inadvertent spam.

My advice, however, is that folks in their 30's doing retirement financial planning read that article.
I agree it's a good article. Not inadvertent spam at all. It actually did get referenced in this thread back in 2019 when it came out, but as you mention - it is worth pointing out again and well worth the read and reflection. In addition to the great article, the graphic spoke volumes to me when I first saw it - and still does. :o

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
1moreyr
Posts: 459
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:10 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by 1moreyr »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:19 am
Colorado13 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:09 am I know there are a lot of opinions about "pay off the mortgage before retirement" and "pay off mortgage or invest." One reason I paid off the mortgage is that if I'm laid off in my 50s, a layoff would be much less stressful than with a mortgage.
It's not just stress. Having a fixed expense like a mortgage in the withdrawal phase can result in significant sequence of returns risk.

In the event of extended unemployment, I'd rather have no mortgage and a smaller portfolio.
This is so true and what I always think when I see people that believe a mortgage at a low percent and more in the market is a better plan.
every time mu megacorp had layoffs . the stock market was usually down too. This would be a double whammy with a mortgage and no job.

I worked to have my mortgage done in my early 50s. during Covid there were a ton of layoffs. I was 56. I survived the cut and retired shortly thereafter.
I had had it and didnt want to go back to the office.

the severance would have been nice, but leaving on my own terms was psychologically valuable
Ependytis
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:10 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Ependytis »

Ependytis wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:37 pm I recently got a package at 56. I am now in a position to choose to work or not. Surprisingly, I’ve gotten a number of different offers. Now it’s my choice to continue to work or not. I count my blessings every day that I lived way below my means and I’ve had a paid off house for the last five years in a VHCOL area. I took a lot of teasing from my siblings, now looking back it was worth it (they were probably right about the Chevrolet Cavalier that I bought in 1986- it was not reliable to say the least). I would encourage everybody to live below their means. If and when your ticket is up professionally, you won’t regret it. I’m so glad I didn’t get sucked into buying all the worthless crap. I say this with some authority based on all my neighbor’s garages being so full they can’t park their cars in their garage. All the best.
Quick update, my last day at my job was July 31, 2020. I got another job under ”Project Warp Speed” in August 2020 and moved without selling my home. Needless to say it wasn’t a fit, so I gave notice and moved back home in December 2020. In January in 2021, I basically got my dream job in that I work from home. Working from home gives me a lot of advantages like an office with a view, being able to walk my dog midday, not being constantly interrupted by teammates, or even being able to play pickle ball in the middle of the day.

I just learned that essentially my old job is now available. I’m going to apply for it just to see- it would mean roughly $50,000 more per year with bonus and 401(k) match. All the best to those who are looking for a job in their 50’s. It seems like when you don’t need it, opportunities come out of the woodwork.
Zeno
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Zeno »

Ependytis wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:26 pm
Ependytis wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:37 pm I recently got a package at 56. I am now in a position to choose to work or not. Surprisingly, I’ve gotten a number of different offers. Now it’s my choice to continue to work or not. I count my blessings every day that I lived way below my means and I’ve had a paid off house for the last five years in a VHCOL area. I took a lot of teasing from my siblings, now looking back it was worth it (they were probably right about the Chevrolet Cavalier that I bought in 1986- it was not reliable to say the least). I would encourage everybody to live below their means. If and when your ticket is up professionally, you won’t regret it. I’m so glad I didn’t get sucked into buying all the worthless crap. I say this with some authority based on all my neighbor’s garages being so full they can’t park their cars in their garage. All the best.
Quick update, my last day at my job was July 31, 2020. I got another job under ”Project Warp Speed” in August 2020 and moved without selling my home. Needless to say it wasn’t a fit, so I gave notice and moved back home in December 2020. In January in 2021, I basically got my dream job in that I work from home. Working from home gives me a lot of advantages like an office with a view, being able to walk my dog midday, not being constantly interrupted by teammates, or even being able to play pickle ball in the middle of the day.

I just learned that essentially my old job is now available. I’m going to apply for it just to see- it would mean roughly $50,000 more per year with bonus and 401(k) match. All the best to those who are looking for a job in their 50’s. It seems like when you don’t need it, opportunities come out of the woodwork.
+1

Great post, and I am very happy for you.
.
Zeno
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Zeno »

1moreyr wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:47 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:19 am
Colorado13 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:09 am I know there are a lot of opinions about "pay off the mortgage before retirement" and "pay off mortgage or invest." One reason I paid off the mortgage is that if I'm laid off in my 50s, a layoff would be much less stressful than with a mortgage.
It's not just stress. Having a fixed expense like a mortgage in the withdrawal phase can result in significant sequence of returns risk.

In the event of extended unemployment, I'd rather have no mortgage and a smaller portfolio.
This is so true and what I always think when I see people that believe a mortgage at a low percent and more in the market is a better plan.
every time mu megacorp had layoffs . the stock market was usually down too. This would be a double whammy with a mortgage and no job.

I worked to have my mortgage done in my early 50s. during Covid there were a ton of layoffs. I was 56. I survived the cut and retired shortly thereafter.
I had had it and didnt want to go back to the office.

the severance would have been nice, but leaving on my own terms was psychologically valuable
+1

I completely agree with you. And thank you for your post.

In my humble opinion, you have flagged a key benefit of being mortgage-free as early as possible as one enters his/her 50’s. I am completely with you on this.
Zeno
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Zeno »

Thank you
Last edited by Zeno on Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bluegill
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:15 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by bluegill »

I lost my job as a oil exploration geophysicist in the mid-80s. So did most geophysicist. Oil prices went from $40 to $10 a barrel. I was in my late 30s. I had worked very hard studying, developing skills and knowledge in exploration. It was a depressing time in my life. I went from very high income to no income. Not being able to provide for my family was a humilating experience. It was a tough many months to get into gainful employment.
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

WyomingFIRE wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:39 am
1moreyr wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:47 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:19 am
Colorado13 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:09 am I know there are a lot of opinions about "pay off the mortgage before retirement" and "pay off mortgage or invest." One reason I paid off the mortgage is that if I'm laid off in my 50s, a layoff would be much less stressful than with a mortgage.
It's not just stress. Having a fixed expense like a mortgage in the withdrawal phase can result in significant sequence of returns risk.

In the event of extended unemployment, I'd rather have no mortgage and a smaller portfolio.
This is so true and what I always think when I see people that believe a mortgage at a low percent and more in the market is a better plan.
every time mu megacorp had layoffs . the stock market was usually down too. This would be a double whammy with a mortgage and no job.

I worked to have my mortgage done in my early 50s. during Covid there were a ton of layoffs. I was 56. I survived the cut and retired shortly thereafter.
I had had it and didnt want to go back to the office.

the severance would have been nice, but leaving on my own terms was psychologically valuable
+1

I completely agree with you. And thank you for your post.

In my humble opinion, you have flagged a key benefit of being mortgage-free as early as possible as one enters his/her 50’s. I am completely with you on this.
If you have enough to pay off your loan it doesn’t matter as much. I would keep money in the market vs paying down faster…and then lump sum the pay off when you wanted to.

But that’s a stylistic thing…there’s little difference in outcome for most folks…
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

bluegill wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:20 am I lost my job as a oil exploration geophysicist in the mid-80s. So did most geophysicist. Oil prices went from $40 to $10 a barrel. I was in my late 30s. I had worked very hard studying, developing skills and knowledge in exploration. It was a depressing time in my life. I went from very high income to no income. Not being able to provide for my family was a humilating experience. It was a tough many months to get into gainful employment.
Out of curiosity…what did you end up doing and did the industry recover in a way you could restart that career?
bluegill
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:15 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by bluegill »

nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:55 am
bluegill wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:20 am I lost my job as a oil exploration geophysicist in the mid-80s. So did most geophysicist. Oil prices went from $40 to $10 a barrel. I was in my late 30s. I had worked very hard studying, developing skills and knowledge in exploration. It was a depressing time in my life. I went from very high income to no income. Not being able to provide for my family was a humilating experience. It was a tough many months to get into gainful employment.


Out of curiosity…what did you end up doing and did the industry recover in a way you could restart that career?
The exploration was dead for several years. After losing my job, I never wanted to go back into the oil business.
I became a Operations Research Analyst for the Army; worked at missile research, development, and production.
I have a strong math & science background which helped change careers.
Barkingsparrow
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Barkingsparrow »

iamblessed wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:01 pm If you can work past your 50's you will be let go in your early to mid 60's from what I have seen.
I sure hope so! In my early 60's and still waiting for that termination with severance.
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

bluegill wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:13 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:55 am
bluegill wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:20 am I lost my job as a oil exploration geophysicist in the mid-80s. So did most geophysicist. Oil prices went from $40 to $10 a barrel. I was in my late 30s. I had worked very hard studying, developing skills and knowledge in exploration. It was a depressing time in my life. I went from very high income to no income. Not being able to provide for my family was a humilating experience. It was a tough many months to get into gainful employment.


Out of curiosity…what did you end up doing and did the industry recover in a way you could restart that career?
The exploration was dead for several years. After losing my job, I never wanted to go back into the oil business.
I became a Operations Research Analyst for the Army; worked at missile research, development, and production.
I have a strong math & science background which helped change careers.
OR is good. I know some AF OR folks…
cbeck
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:28 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cbeck »

I worked in IT for twenty-five years, mostly in small companies, but the last one had 500 employees. The first person I ever saw retire was me. People quit, got fired, and a couple of them even died on the job, but no one retired. When I notified HR at the last job of my intention to retire, they didn't believe me and probably assumed I was going over to a competitor. Most of my co-workers told me that they thought they would never be able to retire themselves. Seems pretty grim to me.
bhough
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by bhough »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
This is a good point. It is difficult to tell your kids no, but in this situation, your friend needs to tell his kid no. UVA is a great school and even better with a free ride. He is not a position to take food out of his mouth (or his other kids' mouths) to cater to her whim to go to a different school. We have obligations to our children, but there is no obligation to give them everything they want.

I'm not trying to beat up your friend, but resources are limited. I love my kids and do everything I can to help them, but there is a time to say enough is enough. Oiy.

b
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

bhough wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:35 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
This is a good point. It is difficult to tell your kids no, but in this situation, your friend needs to tell his kid no. UVA is a great school and even better with a free ride. He is not a position to take food out of his mouth (or his other kids' mouths) to cater to her whim to go to a different school. We have obligations to our children, but there is no obligation to give them everything they want.

I'm not trying to beat up your friend, but resources are limited. I love my kids and do everything I can to help them, but there is a time to say enough is enough. Oiy.

b
Yah, and Northeastern used to be the bad school until they gamed college rankings.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/201 ... -rankings/

That’s crazy. I’d pay for HYPMS but Northeastern? Okay, they have a decent co-op program but so? Over UVA?

Did I say that was crazy yet? Because that’s freaking crazy?
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15111
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by anon_investor »

nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:41 pm
bhough wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:35 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
This is a good point. It is difficult to tell your kids no, but in this situation, your friend needs to tell his kid no. UVA is a great school and even better with a free ride. He is not a position to take food out of his mouth (or his other kids' mouths) to cater to her whim to go to a different school. We have obligations to our children, but there is no obligation to give them everything they want.

I'm not trying to beat up your friend, but resources are limited. I love my kids and do everything I can to help them, but there is a time to say enough is enough. Oiy.

b
Yah, and Northeastern used to be the bad school until they gamed college rankings.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/201 ... -rankings/

That’s crazy. I’d pay for HYPMS but Northeastern? Okay, they have a decent co-op program but so? Over UVA?

Did I say that was crazy yet? Because that’s freaking crazy?
I thought that was a typo. Pay money for Northwestern maybe, but Northeastern over UVA for free? CrAZY!
KlangFool
Posts: 31426
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:52 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:41 pm
bhough wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:35 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
This is a good point. It is difficult to tell your kids no, but in this situation, your friend needs to tell his kid no. UVA is a great school and even better with a free ride. He is not a position to take food out of his mouth (or his other kids' mouths) to cater to her whim to go to a different school. We have obligations to our children, but there is no obligation to give them everything they want.

I'm not trying to beat up your friend, but resources are limited. I love my kids and do everything I can to help them, but there is a time to say enough is enough. Oiy.

b
Yah, and Northeastern used to be the bad school until they gamed college rankings.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/201 ... -rankings/

That’s crazy. I’d pay for HYPMS but Northeastern? Okay, they have a decent co-op program but so? Over UVA?

Did I say that was crazy yet? Because that’s freaking crazy?
I thought that was a typo. Pay money for Northwestern maybe, but Northeastern over UVA for free? CrAZY!
I made a mistake. It was Northwestern. She was doing pre-med.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
User avatar
Vulcan
Posts: 2975
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Vulcan »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:52 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:41 pm That’s crazy. I’d pay for HYPMS but Northeastern? Okay, they have a decent co-op program but so? Over UVA?

Did I say that was crazy yet? Because that’s freaking crazy?
I thought that was a typo. Pay money for Northwestern maybe, but Northeastern over UVA for free? CrAZY!
Must be a typo. Northeastern is ranked significantly lower (#49) than UVa (#26).

I agree there are some schools that are worth the price. Opinions differ on which ones, if any.
KlangFool may say we're being foolish, but even though our elder had a full tuition merit offer from Vanderbilt, we are paying for MIT.

Will do the same for his brother in a heartbeat if he's as lucky.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
KlangFool
Posts: 31426
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool »

Vulcan wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:35 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:52 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:41 pm That’s crazy. I’d pay for HYPMS but Northeastern? Okay, they have a decent co-op program but so? Over UVA?

Did I say that was crazy yet? Because that’s freaking crazy?
I thought that was a typo. Pay money for Northwestern maybe, but Northeastern over UVA for free? CrAZY!
Must be a typo. Northeastern is ranked significantly lower (#49) than UVa (#26).

I agree there are some schools that are worth the price. Opinions differ on which ones, if any.
KlangFool may say we're being foolish, but even though our elder had a full tuition merit offer from Vanderbilt, we are paying for MIT.

Will do the same for his brother in a heartbeat if he's as lucky.
A) I made a mistake. It was Northwestern.

B) In your case, you can afford it. In my peer's case, he is taking a student loan for his daughter.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Wannaretireearly
Posts: 4847
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Wannaretireearly »

My goal is to be ready for long term unemployment in 2 to 3 years. Already mid forties! Gosh.

+ got rid of mortgage
+ elder son is moving to local public school.
+ due to above, now able to save 20% in 401k and 20% in mega backdoor Roth.

- still have one kid in private school. Good school K thru 5. Middle school was a bit iffy on the 'teaching' side. Hope for him to transition in 2 years to local public.

- healthcare is a royal PIA in the US. The healthcare nugget needed in ER seems crazy and fuzzy. But oh well, keep saving I guess. Even for my mom, now on Medicare, she needs to budget $1K each month all in for healthcare. (Premium plans)

- big one. I need to save 2 to 3X expenses in cash/bonds in taxable. This needs to be my main focus so I'm FU ready when the Pink slip arrives. I don't want to rely on having to sell equities, at least for at least 2 or 3 years after work stops.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
User avatar
Aslan18
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:55 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Aslan18 »

CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:10 am
sailaway wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:51 am My FIL was laid off in his 50s. They are thriving, but the experience was traumatic enough that when my now husband and I had our very first conversation about splitting finances, he offered to fund my IRA.

The psychological aspects may not be financial, but they are actionable. I wish more folks would seek counseling at the same time as they start the job search. Many people who choose to retire have a tough time with the transition; folks who get laid off have that life changing decision taken from them, when they may have thought they were at the height of their careers, often at the same time as the empty nest transition.
The bolded part - how true! That's where I was.

Yes, seeking help is indeed actionable and worth adding to the list of items to do.

As Pete Dunn states in his podcast, it's one of the most difficult things you can go through. Whether one forges on and lands new employment, or one just retires after the layoff, or one gets stuck in an extended period of a new job search - the only thing I can relate it to - based on prior experience - would be grief.

Distinguishing the differences between being linked to making money and saving via one's human capital vs. being linked to a particular career as one's identity colors the aftermath experience in the transition following a layoff. I've seen colleagues devastated by both, as well as what appears - at least to me - as some of the stages of grief.
+1
Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. ~ Napoleon Bonaparte
Madvillain
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:52 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Madvillain »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
Turning down a full ride at UVA to take on debt for Northeastern is truly insane especially given than UVA is a better school. Maybe she was considering Northwestern? I can see turning down UVA for NW but even still...
Post Reply