Losing a job in your 50's...

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
KlangFool
Posts: 31426
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool »

Madvillain wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:18 am
KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
Turning down a full ride at UVA to take on debt for Northeastern is truly insane especially given than UVA is a better school. Maybe she was considering Northwestern? I can see turning down UVA for NW but even still...
I made a mistake. It was Northwestern.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by stoptothink »

Madvillain wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:18 am
KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
Turning down a full ride at UVA to take on debt for Northeastern is truly insane especially given than UVA is a better school. Maybe she was considering Northwestern? I can see turning down UVA for NW but even still...
Believe me, things like this happen. A former employee (single mom in her 50's) was paying for full freight (+ room and board) because her son just had to attend a specific private school, that is lower ranked in almost every program, than the local public that is <$7k/yr tuition+ fees and like 2 miles from their home. He lasted a year before realizing it wasn't for him and transferred to local U, where he graduated last year. That little experiment costed mom $50k+, with zero benefit to anybody but the school.
Madvillain
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:52 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Madvillain »

stoptothink wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:33 am
Madvillain wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:18 am
KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
Turning down a full ride at UVA to take on debt for Northeastern is truly insane especially given than UVA is a better school. Maybe she was considering Northwestern? I can see turning down UVA for NW but even still...
Believe me, things like this happen. A former employee (single mom in her 50's) was paying for full freight (+ room and board) because her son just had to attend a specific private school, that is lower ranked in almost every program, than the local public that is <$7k/yr tuition+ fees and like 2 miles from their home. He lasted a year before realizing it wasn't for him and transferred to local U, where he graduated last year. That little experiment costed mom $50k+, with zero benefit to anybody but the school.
It's really rather incredible. I truly thing that higher education is one of the most exploitative industries in the country. The schools know that a bright, ambitious 17-18 year old has nothing to go on but potential and will be prone to building "castles in the air" when it comes to idealizing the college experience. They are easily convinced that college is transformational (it is, but so it just about anything you do in your late teens and early 20s) and that small differences in perceived prestige can justify taking on enormous loans. I fell for this too when I graduated nearly 15 years ago but I was laser focused on consulting / banking recruiting and all in all it paid off.

If you get scammed by an investment advisor or something, you can file a complaint -- but you can't complain against a school that sold you dreams that you bought when you were 18.
Tommy
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:47 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Tommy »

Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
cbeck
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:28 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cbeck »

Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:36 pm Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
Good for you. You won.
User avatar
dogagility
Posts: 3201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:41 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by dogagility »

Two words: truck driver :twisted:
Make sure you check out my list of certifications. The list is short, and there aren't any. - Eric 0. from SMA
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15111
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by anon_investor »

Thanks everyone for sharing their experiences. This reinforces my decision to try to reach "FI" no later than 50.
Normchad
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:20 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Normchad »

cbeck wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:01 pm
Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:36 pm Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
Good for you. You won.
I always thought “winning” would look different and feel better than this…..
cbeck
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:28 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cbeck »

Normchad wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:07 pm
cbeck wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:01 pm
Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:36 pm Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
Good for you. You won.
I always thought “winning” would look different and feel better than this…..
Winning is just not losing, which feels a lot worse.
Tommy
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:47 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Tommy »

Normchad wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:07 pm
cbeck wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:01 pm
Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:36 pm Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
Good for you. You won.
I always thought “winning” would look different and feel better than this…..
Well, what you thought it absolutely irrelevant. At least for me..I came to US at age of 36, penniless, no English and no suitable profession. If by age of 62 I was able to became millionaire, paid for child education in very good university, have paid off house - I consider that I achieve practically everything what I came in US for.
Wanderingwheelz
Posts: 3125
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:52 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:40 pm
Normchad wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:07 pm
cbeck wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:01 pm
Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:36 pm Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
Good for you. You won.
I always thought “winning” would look different and feel better than this…..
Well, what you thought it absolutely irrelevant. At least for me..I came to US at age of 36, penniless, no English and no suitable profession. If by age of 62 I was able to became millionaire, paid for child education in very good university, have paid off house - I consider that I achieve practically everything what I came in US for.
That comment wasn’t helpful and I can understand why you might have felt hurt by it. You should feel proud of what you’ve accomplished. Many of us here have had an easier go of it than you.

Besides, I don’t think financial planning is something that should be thought of in terms of “winning”. It’s not a competition.

“The day you stop racing, is the day you win the race.”
-Bob Marley
Being wrong compounds forever.
User avatar
Topic Author
CyclingDuo
Posts: 5989
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:07 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo »

Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:36 pm Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
Tommy - thanks for sharing your story!

Your post highlights an important phase of one's working career and reminds me of something that I wanted to add to this thread from a blog article that Michael Kitces wrote back in 2016 about the empty nest red zone being the key to filling the gap on retirement savings after having raised children in the prior two decades. It's a very common red zone/danger zone for households in their 50's and early 60's after the parenting expenses years - which is usually a pair of decades for most of us regarding our parenting years, depending on how many children we have and their age gaps. The reality of it coinciding with much of what this thread discusses about losing a job in your 50's makes it a nail biting phase for many:

Here is the graphic from his article Why The Empty Nest Transition Is Crucial For Retirement Success:

Image
https://www.kitces.com/blog/empty-nest- ... etirement/

"The bottom line, though, is simply this: perhaps it’s time to stop guilting parents in their 30s and 40s about not saving enough, and recognize the savings opportunity for empty nesters in their 50s and 60s. Because telling parents to save 10%-20% of their income during the child-rearing phase may be unrealistic, and telling empty nesters to save 10%-20% of their income may underestimate their ability to save and get their retirement on track!"

I can empathize with the college funding, paying off the mortgage alongside plans for using the red zone empty nest years during your 50's and early 60's being a stressful phase to go through when it involves a layoff. Having gone through the past 3 years and now entering my 4th year of finding something that allowed me to survive and continue to bring in income after the layoff at age 56 from my former career has been well worth the effort of hanging on by my fingernails. Thankfully, it has allowed our household to fill a big part of the gap on retirement savings and stick to our original plans of using those empty nest red zone years to play some catch up.

Keep on hitting your goals and kudos to you for making it through the gap of the past 4 years after the layoff. :beer

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
Surfcaster
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:57 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Surfcaster »

I am in technology and was laid off 4 times in the 2010's in my 50s, all due to companies going through significant downsizing. DW handicapped so not easibly able for her to get a job and medical coverage is a requirement. 2nd job came with a 33% pay cut. Lasted 4 1/2 months. Next job was an additional 33% pay cut and well over an hour commute away. Lasted 2 years. Next job was at least closer to home with a pay raise. Lasted 2 years. Now at a mega Corp with another raise. I'm still 20% dollar wise lower than I was making 9 years ago but at a stable company. Unfortunately job is mind-numbing mega Corp work moving at a snails pace. With only 3 years to go it is hard to justify looking for a new job though.
These layoffs set my retirement plans back at least two years, but if I get laid off again before 65 I'll probably just hang it up and retire. Handling Medical insurance cost until 65 is still the big issue though.
Luckily we always lived somewhat conservatively so was never concerned about not being able to pay the bills. We did have to live without vacations, newer cars and things like that though.
gips
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 5:42 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by gips »

I've said this in other threads (and maybe even this one), if you work in tech and are not deepening/broadening your skillset, imo your expectation should be a layoff in your 50s. throughout my career, on my own time, I took finance classes, learned new languages, operating systems, databases and middleware. I also learned how to manage teams/projects, business analysis, QA and IT strategy.

I was laid off once in my 40s after working ten years for a megatech, it made no sense and my peers were in disbelief but I was assigned a new mgr, he had to cut and he kept his own people. later that day my mgr's mgr called to say I could keep my job but I decided if they were willing to cut me, it was time to move on. I took a nice package and had two verbal job offers in 4 hours through ex-colleagues.

through my 50s I continued to learn, they were my best earning years and there was never a hint of a layoff. Retired at 58, got bored after two years, taught myself cloud computing and consulted remotely 2 days a week for AWS until about a month ago, when I re-retired :)

so my advice is ABL (always be learning) !

best,
rich126
Posts: 4453
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by rich126 »

Thankfully I've never lost a job. Part of that is for 50-60% of my career I've been a government work (multiple times) but a few other things have helped me.

1. Don't be a trouble maker. A bit harder for me when I was younger since I'm pretty blunt and honest and many managers don't want honesty.
2. Keep your head down and get known for getting your work done correctly and ahead of schedule or at worst on schedule.
3. Read the culture - Know the politics of the company/office. Some are very much style over substance.
4. Keep aware of the vibe - I'm not a talker with a lot of people but I can still get an idea when projects are getting canceled or work is slowing down.
5. Position yourself to do important or relevant work. If you are one of a small number of people that can do certain types of work important to the company you will be safer than the dozens/hundreds of generic programmers.
6. Learn new stuff either at work or at home. The biggest thing I see are tech folks in mid 40s/50s who are happy doing certain tasks that are rapidly getting out dated and aren't in demand outside the current company and if things turn down at their current employer, those tasks won't help on the resume. For example maybe a proprietary assembly language.
7. Keep resume up to date and periodically apply for jobs. If you don't get interviews or offers, take that as a warning sign that your value is low on the marketplace and you need to improve your skills and be prepared for the worst.
8. Security Clearance jobs. Although contracting positions can be tedious, boring and frustrating, those with clearances generally have better job security than those without. While a Secret clearance is low hanging fruit (be a US citizen and not have felonies and you just about have it), moving to a TS clearance is much harder and many won't do the paperwork or deal with the hassles (e.g., pre-approval of foreign trips) and if you can get a TS with poly, etc. you are in a much smaller employment pool where there are plenty of programming jobs and at least job security.
9. Be careful of going the management route if you are technical. Mid-level managers are often the first people to go IME.

I'm heading back to government work in my late 50s before I retire. I might work a year as a contractor after retirement (double dip and be even more set for retirement). My main reason is my current job is boring and I want to get closer to aging family. In my 50s I've been lucky enough to interview with a couple of FAANG companies so there can still be demand for your skills in your 50s.

Hang in there.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
Tommy
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:47 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Tommy »

gips wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:41 am I've said this in other threads (and maybe even this one), if you work in tech and are not deepening/broadening your skillset, imo your expectation should be a layoff in your 50s. throughout my career, on my own time, I took finance classes, learned new languages, operating systems, databases and middleware. I also learned how to manage teams/projects, business analysis, QA and IT strategy.

I was laid off once in my 40s after working ten years for a megatech, it made no sense and my peers were in disbelief but I was assigned a new mgr, he had to cut and he kept his own people. later that day my mgr's mgr called to say I could keep my job but I decided if they were willing to cut me, it was time to move on. I took a nice package and had two verbal job offers in 4 hours through ex-colleagues.

through my 50s I continued to learn, they were my best earning years and there was never a hint of a layoff. Retired at 58, got bored after two years, taught myself cloud computing and consulted remotely 2 days a week for AWS until about a month ago, when I re-retired :)

so my advice is ABL (always be learning) !

best,
In my case company just closed office in my city. Everybody were let go - from VP to janitor. Your skills, gender, race, office politics didn't matter. They paid for 2 months + package (good package btw).
I was test lead - during those 2 months I found job in consulting company as Data Analyst. Full time. Even didn't have chance to apply to unemployment.
When next layoff comes I won't bother to update resume. Although my wife says that if I stay at home I'll get crazy :)
Age discrimination in high tech do exists. Especially in software companies. But consulting more tolerable. Some companies - banks, insurance, more tolerable to older workers - they have a lot of old folks.
BruinBones
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by BruinBones »

Thanks for recently resurrecting this thread. I’m a physician who was laid off (“termination without cause”) at age 50 just 3 and a half years into my first civilian job after a 24-year military career for not generating enough revenue for the hospital.
Fortunately I was able to parlay my next job into FIRE 5 years later, maximizing all tax deferred benefits (403b, 457b, HSA, back door Roth IRA, etc) along the way. (Certainly the military pension helped, covering about 60% of our annual expenses).
My advice for the bridge to Social Security or retirement:
1. Know precisely when all benefits end (last paycheck, medical coverage, retirement contributions, severance).
2. Apply for unemployment as soon as possible.
3. Tighten up you non-essential budget items.
4. Keep up with, and even enhance, credentials to show you are still active in your specialty (In my case, I regularly did online CME, went to a CME conference, and earned two additional certifications).
5. Accept temporary jobs until you find one that you can do long term. (In my case, I did locum tenens).
6. Keep your spouse involved in all decision-making.
I’ll have to admit I was pretty upset initially for awhile. Keeping an optimistic outlook (everything happens for a reason, one door closes another opens, etc) and having a supportive spouse is invaluable. We are now enjoying retirement as empty nesters like newlyweds again.
Normchad
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:20 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Normchad »

rich126 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:30 am Thankfully I've never lost a job. Part of that is for 50-60% of my career I've been a government work (multiple times) but a few other things have helped me.

1. Don't be a trouble maker. A bit harder for me when I was younger since I'm pretty blunt and honest and many managers don't want honesty.
2. Keep your head down and get known for getting your work done correctly and ahead of schedule or at worst on schedule.
3. Read the culture - Know the politics of the company/office. Some are very much style over substance.
4. Keep aware of the vibe - I'm not a talker with a lot of people but I can still get an idea when projects are getting canceled or work is slowing down.
5. Position yourself to do important or relevant work. If you are one of a small number of people that can do certain types of work important to the company you will be safer than the dozens/hundreds of generic programmers.
6. Learn new stuff either at work or at home. The biggest thing I see are tech folks in mid 40s/50s who are happy doing certain tasks that are rapidly getting out dated and aren't in demand outside the current company and if things turn down at their current employer, those tasks won't help on the resume. For example maybe a proprietary assembly language.
7. Keep resume up to date and periodically apply for jobs. If you don't get interviews or offers, take that as a warning sign that your value is low on the marketplace and you need to improve your skills and be prepared for the worst.
8. Security Clearance jobs. Although contracting positions can be tedious, boring and frustrating, those with clearances generally have better job security than those without. While a Secret clearance is low hanging fruit (be a US citizen and not have felonies and you just about have it), moving to a TS clearance is much harder and many won't do the paperwork or deal with the hassles (e.g., pre-approval of foreign trips) and if you can get a TS with poly, etc. you are in a much smaller employment pool where there are plenty of programming jobs and at least job security.
9. Be careful of going the management route if you are technical. Mid-level managers are often the first people to go IME.

I'm heading back to government work in my late 50s before I retire. I might work a year as a contractor after retirement (double dip and be even more set for retirement). My main reason is my current job is boring and I want to get closer to aging family. In my 50s I've been lucky enough to interview with a couple of FAANG companies so there can still be demand for your skills in your 50s.

Hang in there.
This is a great post. Agree with every single point in it.
Wannaretireearly
Posts: 4846
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Wannaretireearly »

gips wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:41 am I've said this in other threads (and maybe even this one), if you work in tech and are not deepening/broadening your skillset, imo your expectation should be a layoff in your 50s. throughout my career, on my own time, I took finance classes, learned new languages, operating systems, databases and middleware. I also learned how to manage teams/projects, business analysis, QA and IT strategy.

I was laid off once in my 40s after working ten years for a megatech, it made no sense and my peers were in disbelief but I was assigned a new mgr, he had to cut and he kept his own people. later that day my mgr's mgr called to say I could keep my job but I decided if they were willing to cut me, it was time to move on. I took a nice package and had two verbal job offers in 4 hours through ex-colleagues.

through my 50s I continued to learn, they were my best earning years and there was never a hint of a layoff. Retired at 58, got bored after two years, taught myself cloud computing and consulted remotely 2 days a week for AWS until about a month ago, when I re-retired :)

so my advice is ABL (always be learning) !

best,
This is great advice! I'm struggling with motivation in my current phase of life, roughly less than 10 years to my FI goal. Your comment on deepening/broadening skillset is key.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
dcabler
Posts: 4482
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:30 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by dcabler »

Normchad wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:07 pm
cbeck wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:01 pm
Tommy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:36 pm Been laid off at 58. It was hard to find a job in high tech at this age but I was able to. Took me almost 2 months. Not the dream one but allow to limp toward retirement with decent pay and benefits. Already limping 4 years :(
After lay-off I was scared - not enough money to retire, house not paid off, daughter still in high school..
But now - she almost graduated university, education paid off - no student loan. She might get one for master but this is different type of education. Almost there with retirement number...House paid off...
For people laid off in the 50's - especially second half. Forget about career, aspirations.. try to find something what allow you to survive till SS (contracts, etc.). And save, save, save -- it comes time when you won't be able to find anything or just don't want to.
Good for you. You won.
I always thought “winning” would look different and feel better than this…..
Understand the feeling. On the other hand, also being in high tech, I've been laid off multiple times now, starting in my early 40's. In almost all cases, I was able to figure out that it was going to happen well in advance. In one case the package was so good it probably accelerated my eventual retirement by several years. In most cases, I already had something lined up before or shortly after it happened, with 1 exception. At age 52 I was laid off and it took me 10 months to find the next gig. Kid still in middle school with a long way to go. On the positive side people told me I looked more relaxed than they've ever seen me. Felt that way, too. In reality I probably could have retired then, but I didn't have as much buffer as I wanted. Kid is a junior in college now with a nice scholarship. That plus the TX Tomorrow fund we bought when she was a year old means she costs us almost nothing for college.

And as somebody in management, I've laid off others more times than I can count. At some point my attitude changed and work became more about a means to an end where the means is something I can tolerate vs. having a passion for and an emotional attachment to. When that happened, I amped up my savings significantly. I consider myself as having met my financial goal. Still working, but not for long. Feels like a win.

Cheers.
Zeno
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Zeno »

dcabler wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:58 am In most cases, I already had something lined up before or shortly after it happened, with 1 exception. At age 52 I was laid off and it took me 10 months to find the next gig .... At some point my attitude changed and work became more about a means to an end where the means is something I can tolerate vs. having a passion for and an emotional attachment to. When that happened, I amped up my savings significantly. I consider myself as having met my financial goal. Still working, but not for long. Feels like a win.
+1

I completely relate to the above. Although I have never been laid off, over my career I have sensed that bad news might be coming so jumped for the next opportunity before that news might have arrived.

The only thing I have noted is that, in my case at least, marketability degraded in my 50's. I'm 57, and the last time a headhunter contacted me unsolicited was when I was 54 or 55. So I sense that I'm no longer employable despite the fact that I'm pretty sure that I have unique skills and am an expert in my field. I could consult, but finding that next job is highly unlikely.

At some point in my 50's I also lost emotional attachment to work. It was always just a job, which is why they call it work, I guess. But that didn't hit home for me until I was in my 50's. Now, it is just a means to add to savings while our HC is funded as I extend the accumulation phase as long as I can.

My advice to the youngsters out there remains this: don't base your financial/retirement plan on the assumption of continued wage income much past age 55. And indeed, it could terminate well before then. If you have the luxury of doing so, try to get your financial life buttoned down as much as possible by age 50 or so.
KlangFool
Posts: 31426
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool »

Folks,

I am back to work after someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse.

Please join my thread if you want to know more details:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=353587
<<Working after Financial Independence>>

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
User avatar
Topic Author
CyclingDuo
Posts: 5989
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:07 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:54 am Folks,

I am back to work after someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse.

Please join my thread if you want to know more details:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=353587
<<Working after Financial Independence>>

KlangFool
Congrats, KlangFool!

This will take some financial stress off of having to rely on your nest egg for your household expenses for the time being, give you some nice additional mental challenges, and be a nice change of pace. :beer

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
KlangFool
Posts: 31426
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool »

CyclingDuo wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:17 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:54 am Folks,

I am back to work after someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse.

Please join my thread if you want to know more details:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=353587
<<Working after Financial Independence>>

KlangFool
Congrats, KlangFool!

This will take some financial stress off of having to rely on your nest egg for your household expenses for the time being, give you some nice mental challenge, and be a nice change of pace. :beer

CyclingDuo
Thanks.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
smitcat
Posts: 13227
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:51 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by smitcat »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:54 am Folks,

I am back to work after someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse.

Please join my thread if you want to know more details:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=353587
<<Working after Financial Independence>>

KlangFool
Congratulations .... but why 'work for free' when you have more than enough to retire with your spending goals?
KlangFool
Posts: 31426
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool »

smitcat wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:21 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:54 am Folks,

I am back to work after someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse.

Please join my thread if you want to know more details:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=353587
<<Working after Financial Independence>>

KlangFool
Congratulations .... but why 'work for free' when you have more than enough to retire with your spending goals?
Yes, that is the dilemma I am facing. In 2 to 3 years, I would be paying significant more taxes if I continue working.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
rich126
Posts: 4453
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by rich126 »

And sometimes the employee are their own worst enemy. I've mentioned before my current manager is very people friendly and tries to help people but they have to be willing to help themselves. For example, he had one engineer who was mostly a one trick pony and when his task was done, that person was difficult to place on another assignment.

The manager told the person to update or write a resume and he would contact other managers to help him find a job within the company. He even went as far as telling the person, just write up anything and he would take time to help the person clean it up, etc. The person never did anything so the manager did what you'd expect, had to let him go.

In another case that didn't lead to the person directly losing his job but probably factored in down the road when the company downsized. A guy was in a technical management role but his writing skills were poor. I think English was his second language. In his role he needed to be able to write well enough for technical proposals but was having trouble. Management suggested some writing classes but the employee refused. Things like that can come back to haunt you. First he lost his management position and then later his lost his job.

I've turned down positions before but usually only when I knew it wasn't going to be a big deal and usually only when I was working at the government and not as a younger person in a private company. And if I did, I'd make sure to update my resume and be prepared just in case.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
Carousel
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Carousel »

bluegill wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:20 am I lost my job as a oil exploration geophysicist in the mid-80s. So did most geophysicist. Oil prices went from $40 to $10 a barrel. I was in my late 30s. I had worked very hard studying, developing skills and knowledge in exploration. It was a depressing time in my life. I went from very high income to no income. Not being able to provide for my family was a humilating experience. It was a tough many months to get into gainful employment.
What kind of work did you move into?
Carousel
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Carousel »

bluegill wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:20 am I lost my job as a oil exploration geophysicist in the mid-80s. So did most geophysicist. Oil prices went from $40 to $10 a barrel. I was in my late 30s. I had worked very hard studying, developing skills and knowledge in exploration. It was a depressing time in my life. I went from very high income to no income. Not being able to provide for my family was a humilating experience. It was a tough many months to get into gainful employment.
What kind of work did you move into?
RoadagentMN
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:09 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by RoadagentMN »

Many CFO/CEOs who find themselves unemployed in the early 50’s never find another gig. It’s weird how many “high flyers” never ascend to the star chamber again. Often they try start/buy some small business convinced they are the Titans of business- many crash and burns. Bring the popcorn 🍿
Dottie57
Posts: 12349
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Dottie57 »

mancich wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 am It sounds like you've taken a proactive approach and are to be commended for this, as well as what seems to be a healthy attitude.
Wishing OP all the best. OP has certainly dome well in practice and in attitude.
bltn
Posts: 1843
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by bltn »

KlangFool wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:20 am
Madvillain wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:18 am
KlangFool wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 am Folks,

There is another problem that is not mentioned in this thread yet: student loan.

My peer's daughter is a National Merit Finalist. She had a full-ride scholarship to UVA. But, she wants to go to Northeastern? Instead. So, instead of a fully-paid Bachelor degree, the parent (my peer) have to take a student loan to finance her bachelor degree. My peer has a bigger and more expensive house too. And, he has 2 more kids going to college in a few years. He is stressed out every day due to the regular laid off. He told me that he cannot tell his daughter that he cannot afford to send her to Northeastern.

KlangFool
Turning down a full ride at UVA to take on debt for Northeastern is truly insane especially given than UVA is a better school. Maybe she was considering Northwestern? I can see turning down UVA for NW but even still...
I made a mistake. It was Northwestern.

KlangFool
Without trying to sidetrack this thread, when I saw this post and the one from Madvillain, I had to relate my story.

My daughter was offered a full scholarship to include a rather generous allowance for room and board to attend our state flagship medical school. Merit scholarships to medical school are somewhat rare. This school provides one full scholarship a year to a student they really want. And my daughter got it! However, when she mentioned this to the people at an elite eastern medical school where she was accepted, they offered her a small merit scholarship to go there. She had to go the the prestigious school. Going into a career in academic medicine, that decision may turn out to be beneficial, but it was expensive. Very expensive.
kleiner
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by kleiner »

rich126 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:30 am 6. Learn new stuff either at work or at home. The biggest thing I see are tech folks in mid 40s/50s who are happy doing certain tasks that are rapidly getting out dated and aren't in demand outside the current company and if things turn down at their current employer, those tasks won't help on the resume. For example maybe a proprietary assembly language.
I was similarly fortunate to never be laid off from my high tech career. From my experience, this particular point (excerpted above) is of great importance - you need to spend many hours a week in study to keep yourself current in your field. This is doable when you're younger but by the time you get into your 50s it gets progressively harder to find the time. When I was younger, I would always set aside the whole day on Sunday to read the latest papers in my field (machine learning).

Then when I was in my early 50s, my older daughter hit a rough patch in high school and I had to spend many hours tutoring her in calculus. The pay off was big since she was successfully able to get through AP Calculus and has done well ever since. Meanwhile, my father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's so I used to travel to help my mother look after him every few months (he passed away last year). I don't regret the time I spent with him especially towards the end.

The main issue is that deep thinking work requires long hours of concentrated study. By the time I was 58, it became clear to me that I just had too many outside responsibilities that just kept derailing my thoughts. So it was definitely time to retire. Fortunately, I was financially in excellent shape so with a couple months notice, I retired last year. I still greatly enjoy math and programming - just not as "work".
DonFifer
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed May 05, 2021 1:59 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by DonFifer »

I am 100% in agreement with keeping ones skill set up to date.
My employment situation is a little different (and so is my age). I am an Industrial Maintenance Mechanic in California, and generally earn between 80k to 110K per year. I have been laid off 6 times over the years, due to companies moving out of California, closing their west coast operation or they are no longer able to compete in the modern world. I have quit another 6 or 7 jobs because I was not in agreement with their management style. I never burn the bridges behind me, and I have always kept up my skill set. Over the years, I have completed a three year apprenticeship program, completed three correspondence courses, went to the local community colleges and got two AA degrees and seven college level technical certifications. I am a member of the California Jr. College Honor Roll Society and the National Jr. College Honor Roll Society. The first page of my resume is my last three jobs and the second page is my education/training. I was 67 years old when the company I was working for, decided to close their west coast operation. They continued to employ us for an additional 3 months, so I ended up leaving that job on a Friday and started my new job on the following Monday. I am 72 now and have turned in my notice to retire. At my age I have a reputation for being a bit of a curmudgeon, but they can't argue with the quality of my work or my insights, and so they've asked me to stay longer. LOL
JC Denton
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:16 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by JC Denton »

In this day and age, I cant imagine anyone getting through their 50’s without losing a job.
supersharpie
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by supersharpie »

If I happen to still be working in my 50s then I will celebrate getting laid off because it means my former employer did for me what I was unable to do for myself...pull the trigger on early retirement.

As things stand, as 37-year old DINKs with around 900k in retirement assets, we are targeting somewhere between 45 and 50 as the age at which we retire from full-time employment.

If there is one thing this past 1.5 years has taught us is that life is short and good health isn't guaranteed.
User avatar
winterfan
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by winterfan »

DonFifer wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:15 pm I am 100% in agreement with keeping ones skill set up to date.
My employment situation is a little different (and so is my age). I am an Industrial Maintenance Mechanic in California, and generally earn between 80k to 110K per year. I have been laid off 6 times over the years, due to companies moving out of California, closing their west coast operation or they are no longer able to compete in the modern world. I have quit another 6 or 7 jobs because I was not in agreement with their management style. I never burn the bridges behind me, and I have always kept up my skill set. Over the years, I have completed a three year apprenticeship program, completed three correspondence courses, went to the local community colleges and got two AA degrees and seven college level technical certifications. I am a member of the California Jr. College Honor Roll Society and the National Jr. College Honor Roll Society. The first page of my resume is my last three jobs and the second page is my education/training. I was 67 years old when the company I was working for, decided to close their west coast operation. They continued to employ us for an additional 3 months, so I ended up leaving that job on a Friday and started my new job on the following Monday. I am 72 now and have turned in my notice to retire. At my age I have a reputation for being a bit of a curmudgeon, but they can't argue with the quality of my work or my insights, and so they've asked me to stay longer. LOL
My husband is in the same field, although we live in a different area. It seems like it is one of the only fields immune to age discrimination. One advantage older employees have is that there aren't a lot of young people entering this field. His company has a lot of trouble finding new hires too. The last person they hired was in his early 60s. Part of the reason is that you have to know so much about everything (plumbing, boilers, robotics, lasers, high voltage electricity, pumps, etc. etc.) but there isn't a clear path to get there. It's more of a collection of certs, on the job training, licenses, etc. that you noted. He gets quite a bit of solicitations from other companies to jump ship.
kleiner
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by kleiner »

JC Denton wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:52 pm In this day and age, I cant imagine anyone getting through their 50’s without losing a job.
I made it to age 58 and retired on my terms without getting laid off in a 30 year career. So I guess that makes me a bit of a unicorn :happy .

But in a way, it didn't make a difference: even when working in big companies that were doing well financially, I always assumed that a layoff was imminent and had an eye on my next gig.
jmw
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by jmw »

Been reading this thread for years.

One thing I'd add is that many of us may be deluding ourselves with how well we are doing at work and not know it. It's not likely you will get the full and true feedback from your co-workers or bosses, especially if they're younger. For example, you might think to yourself that you're staying on top of technology by continuously learning on udemy, etc and playing with new tech. But in reality, your younger co-workers and boss actually think you're a joke at executing new technologies, slow at adapting, and your wisdom from 20+ years of experience is actually not welcome. Or your colleagues think you are hard to deal with. When I was in my 20s, I didn't think highly of the vast majority of the age 50+ individual contributors. Many of them were old dogs trying to learn new tricks and trying to avoid being the one trick pony. But they were not doing well even though they were trying hard to keep up with technology. I never told them they were subpar and should retire ASAP in their 50s.

The moral of the story is that keeping your skills up to date is not enough. You need to plan to exit in your 50s on your terms because your younger colleagues actually think you are a joke at trying to stay up to date. Once the bosses and directors are younger than you, watch out.
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by stoptothink »

JC Denton wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:52 pm In this day and age, I cant imagine anyone getting through their 50’s without losing a job.
I know countless individuals in their late 50's and 60's, including my mom (61 and just promoted), who work in the industry with supposedly the worst "ageism" (tech) who have never lost a job. Stay up-to-date with your skills.
User avatar
Topic Author
CyclingDuo
Posts: 5989
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:07 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo »

Dottie57 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:58 am
mancich wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 am It sounds like you've taken a proactive approach and are to be commended for this, as well as what seems to be a healthy attitude.
Wishing OP all the best. OP has certainly dome well in practice and in attitude.
Thanks, Dottie57!

Clawed my way through the last three years working 7 days a week which all seems like a foggy whirlwind in retrospect. Now that I have pulled back to one full-time position and am only working 5 days a week, it feels like semi-retirement compared to what the prior years felt like! I now actually know what day of the week it is. 8-)

Interesting that now - not back in 2018 - recruiters are hitting me up left and right with all sorts of possibilities. I attribute that to both the sheer amount of people that left the workforce during the past 1 1/2 years as well as the network being much larger and different in the field I am currently working compared to the very small academic network within my prior niche.

Not sure if that is indicative of the entire age 50's crowd, but at least at first glance it appears there is a need for workers that looks much more promising than some of the rest of this thread indicates. At this point in my final surge, I guess I feel fortunate I'm not in engineering, or coding, or those careers mentioned above that might not be so favorable to those of us who are more mature in age employees. Instead, I am one of the ones who is face to face, building client and customer trust, spending time on the phone, shaking hands, looking people in the eyes and closing the deals for what all the young talent is creating. So I say, keep it coming young talent so I can sell your technology!!!

I never would have imagined doing this back in 2018, but you go where the path leads you.

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
Normchad
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:20 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Normchad »

jmw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:39 am Been reading this thread for years.

One thing I'd add is that many of us may be deluding ourselves with how well we are doing at work and not know it. It's not likely you will get the full and true feedback from your co-workers or bosses, especially if they're younger. For example, you might think to yourself that you're staying on top of technology by continuously learning on udemy, etc and playing with new tech. But in reality, your younger co-workers and boss actually think you're a joke at executing new technologies, slow at adapting, and your wisdom from 20+ years of experience is actually not welcome. Or your colleagues think you are hard to deal with. When I was in my 20s, I didn't think highly of the vast majority of the age 50+ individual contributors. Many of them were old dogs trying to learn new tricks and trying to avoid being the one trick pony. But they were not doing well even though they were trying hard to keep up with technology. I never told them they were subpar and should retire ASAP in their 50s.

The moral of the story is that keeping your skills up to date is not enough. You need to plan to exit in your 50s on your terms because your younger colleagues actually think you are a joke at trying to stay up to date. Once the bosses and directors are younger than you, watch out.
Yep. This absolutely happens.

And I agree with you, I think it’s prudent for tech workers to plan for this. Personally, I wanted to not have to work after 55. Maybe I’d keep working, but I didn’t just assume that I could.

For some folks,they will keep up and be just fine. And some will be in a narrowing niche that will sustain them to the end. And others can make a side step into management, etc.

But everybody in tech should think about this, and make a plan.
Barkingsparrow
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Barkingsparrow »

JC Denton wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:52 pm In this day and age, I cant imagine anyone getting through their 50’s without losing a job.
I'm in my early 60s and still going, and expect to retire on my own terms. I've never lost a job. I'm in IT - and has been reiterated many times, it's critical to keep up your skills. Yesterday's hot software becomes legacy and eventually outsourced.
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

jmw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:39 am Been reading this thread for years.

One thing I'd add is that many of us may be deluding ourselves with how well we are doing at work and not know it. It's not likely you will get the full and true feedback from your co-workers or bosses, especially if they're younger. For example, you might think to yourself that you're staying on top of technology by continuously learning on udemy, etc and playing with new tech. But in reality, your younger co-workers and boss actually think you're a joke at executing new technologies, slow at adapting, and your wisdom from 20+ years of experience is actually not welcome. Or your colleagues think you are hard to deal with. When I was in my 20s, I didn't think highly of the vast majority of the age 50+ individual contributors. Many of them were old dogs trying to learn new tricks and trying to avoid being the one trick pony. But they were not doing well even though they were trying hard to keep up with technology. I never told them they were subpar and should retire ASAP in their 50s.

The moral of the story is that keeping your skills up to date is not enough. You need to plan to exit in your 50s on your terms because your younger colleagues actually think you are a joke at trying to stay up to date. Once the bosses and directors are younger than you, watch out.
Smart engineers tend to stay smart. The rest of us end up in management.
jmw
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by jmw »

nigel_ht wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:04 pm
Smart engineers tend to stay smart. The rest of us end up in management.
How do you know you are actually smart? I've run into many guys who are super delusional and think they are top dog but are actually deadwood. You and your closest co-workers/direct line manager might think you are great, but the powers that be actually wish you were gone and will purge you during the next layoff. Then the "smart guy" files an age discrimination lawsuit claiming he's smart but the only flaw is being over 50.
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by nigel_ht »

jmw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:29 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:04 pm
Smart engineers tend to stay smart. The rest of us end up in management.
How do you know you are actually smart? I've run into many guys who are super delusional and think they are top dog but are actually deadwood. You and your closest co-workers/direct line manager might think you are great, but the powers that be actually wish you were gone and will purge you during the next layoff. Then the "smart guy" files an age discrimination lawsuit claiming he's smart but the only flaw is being over 50.
Meh. There’s delusional deadwood at every age. The old ones might stand out a little more since most peers are no longer technical.

Given that everyone should shoot for FI by age 50 if they can I dunno what more you can do about it.

If you are 50 and not at least in a technical leadership slot you’ll have to self assess what caliber employee you really are. Generally it’s pretty obvious.

The other aspect is that if you realize by 40 that you don’t want a management slot then you better join an organization that if friendly to older individual contributors. They do exist but require effort to find and get into.
Zeno
Posts: 1042
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Zeno »

jmw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:29 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:04 pm
Smart engineers tend to stay smart. The rest of us end up in management.
How do you know you are actually smart? I've run into many guys who are super delusional and think they are top dog but are actually deadwood. You and your closest co-workers/direct line manager might think you are great, but the powers that be actually wish you were gone and will purge you during the next layoff. Then the "smart guy" files an age discrimination lawsuit claiming he's smart but the only flaw is being over 50.
+1

It is sobering to read some of the "layoff" blogs. Based on those blogs for some of the major oil & gas companies, for example, workers during rounds of layoffs are categorized by age. Don't quote me on the following, but I think I'm close. Employees who are 55 are older are deemed "RE" -- i.e., Retirement Eligible. Workers 52-55 are deemed "NRE" -- Near Retirement Eligible. NRE folks seem to be protected from layoffs for a variety of reasons, including immunizing the employer from age discrimination lawsuits. Workers 51 and younger are exposed to layoffs as are those 55 and older. Those who are NRE (i.e., 52-55) are protected.

Separately, I'm surprised at the number of posters on this topic who are dual income. I think the "losing your job in your 50's" concern are acute for sole breadwinner scenarios. Financially, having two income generators is a luxury and mitigates risk.
fortunefavored
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by fortunefavored »

nigel_ht wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:44 pm
jmw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:29 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:04 pm
Smart engineers tend to stay smart. The rest of us end up in management.
How do you know you are actually smart? I've run into many guys who are super delusional and think they are top dog but are actually deadwood. You and your closest co-workers/direct line manager might think you are great, but the powers that be actually wish you were gone and will purge you during the next layoff. Then the "smart guy" files an age discrimination lawsuit claiming he's smart but the only flaw is being over 50.
Meh. There’s delusional deadwood at every age. The old ones might stand out a little more since most peers are no longer technical.

Given that everyone should shoot for FI by age 50 if they can I dunno what more you can do about it.

If you are 50 and not at least in a technical leadership slot you’ll have to self assess what caliber employee you really are. Generally it’s pretty obvious.

The other aspect is that if you realize by 40 that you don’t want a management slot then you better join an organization that if friendly to older individual contributors. They do exist but require effort to find and get into.
I'd add in my experience there are ENTIRE COMPANIES of not very good/smart/highly qualified people. Some of them astoundingly large and successful. So you may be the smartest, most technical person in your company.. and still be terrible out in the real world. "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king"

Anyone with a 10+ year tenure at a random-generic-company could be in that category and not even know it despite keeping all their "skills" up to date, being highly compensated, etc.
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by stoptothink »

fortunefavored wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:35 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:44 pm
jmw wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:29 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:04 pm
Smart engineers tend to stay smart. The rest of us end up in management.
How do you know you are actually smart? I've run into many guys who are super delusional and think they are top dog but are actually deadwood. You and your closest co-workers/direct line manager might think you are great, but the powers that be actually wish you were gone and will purge you during the next layoff. Then the "smart guy" files an age discrimination lawsuit claiming he's smart but the only flaw is being over 50.
Meh. There’s delusional deadwood at every age. The old ones might stand out a little more since most peers are no longer technical.

Given that everyone should shoot for FI by age 50 if they can I dunno what more you can do about it.

If you are 50 and not at least in a technical leadership slot you’ll have to self assess what caliber employee you really are. Generally it’s pretty obvious.

The other aspect is that if you realize by 40 that you don’t want a management slot then you better join an organization that if friendly to older individual contributors. They do exist but require effort to find and get into.
I'd add in my experience there are ENTIRE COMPANIES of not very good/smart/highly qualified people. Some of them astoundingly large and successful. So you may be the smartest, most technical person in your company.. and still be terrible out in the real world. "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king"

Anyone with a 10+ year tenure at a random-generic-company could be in that category and not even know it despite keeping all their "skills" up to date, being highly compensated, etc.
You just described my wife's employer; smaller (~800 employee) IT data security company. My wife came in at 30, with zero experience or education and outproduced everybody (while simultaneously being a full-time student). They think she's some sort of savant. Every time I meet another executive my mind is blown how the company got established let alone has stayed in business for nearly 20yrs. She would have left long ago, but having a decent paying job (with amazing benefits) that you can do in your sleep in <20hrs/week made it possible for her to finish school, spend 10-15hrs/week training for her sport, and still be a mom to two young kids.
MarkRoulo
Posts: 1192
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:25 am

Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by MarkRoulo »

fortunefavored wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:35 pm ... snip ...

I'd add in my experience there are ENTIRE COMPANIES of not very good/smart/highly qualified people. Some of them astoundingly large and successful. So you may be the smartest, most technical person in your company.. and still be terrible out in the real world. "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king"

Anyone with a 10+ year tenure at a random-generic-company could be in that category and not even know it despite keeping all their "skills" up to date, being highly compensated, etc.
Any suggestion for what to do about "could be in that category and not even know it"?

Besides quitting your job every five years or so I mean :-)
Post Reply