Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

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Engineer250
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Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Engineer250 »

I've read the Bogleheads wiki page on Prioritizing Investments https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Priorit ... nvestments and feel like it doesn't tackle enough questions of how to prioritize an emergency fund vs. retirement vs loans. I would like to know either "this is what I would do" or "this is what I would tell someone to do". I understand people will have different opinions but I think it could be helpful to more than just me (and why I haven't framed this as a personal question, the situation must be common enough, but can provide more details if someone thinks it will make any difference).

Let's say you have

a) An emergency fund that is less than 3 months
b) Access to a 401k with a match
c) Access (income low enough) to a Roth IRA
d) Student loan debt around 4-5%
e) Upcoming expenses

Let's say you can save about $20k a year. Do you...max out your 401k without topping off your emergency fund? Reduce your 401k to the match in order to save in your emergency fund only? Where does the student loan debt fall in list of priorities (I'm not sure if 4-5% is supposed to be "low" or "high") and at what point do you prioritize paying it off? Do you save for the upcoming expenses at the risk of 401k, take on more student loan debt, or use your emergency fund for the expenses while continuing to max retirement?

Thanks I welcome everyone's insight, opinions, and advice.
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bigred77
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by bigred77 »

Honestly there's so much that can change from person to person (federal taxes, state taxes, goals, time frame, risk tolerance, job security, family backstop, income trajectory, marriage, kids, cost of living, I could go on and on) that I would advise anyone who asked for advice to post their situation here with as many specifics as they would feel comfortable sharing. There just isn't any useful generic advice for this kind of stuff IMO.

For myself, I prioritized B and C first (maxed Roth IRA from day 1, maxed my 401k after about 3 or 4 years after starting with 15% of salary). Then I paid down debt on an accelerated schedule that I was comfortable with, but never went all out trying to get rid of it. I never had an emergency fund to speak of, building one up now in preparation of having kids and moving to 1 income. I tried to allocate some extra non-retirement funds for known upcoming expenses (cars, grad school, furnishing a house, etc.) but I was comfortable borrowing at low rates to help finance lumpy purchases with a plan to pay them off quickly (typically under 24 months).

I definitely undervalued liquidity in my 20s. I was lucky and never had a set back but I realize I was taking a calculated risk. I am comfortable with debt as a tool but I realize it needs to be used prudently. YMMV
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InKirkWeTrust
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by InKirkWeTrust »

When I first started working, I was putting 5% to 401k, 5% to emergency fund, 5% here, 5% there, etc. It felt like I was treading water and not making any progress. I chose to focus all of my savings into my student loans. Now I am putting roughly 30% of my gross income towards my loans every month, and it feels really great to watch the balance go down.

FYI, my employer does a 3% contribution into my 401k, with no match required, so I am not contributing anything right now. If it was a match, then I would contribute up to the match.

It's true that stocks historically have returned around 10% long term, so if your goal is simply to have the highest possible dollar amount in your portfolio on the day you retire, then you should just make the minimum payments on all your debt, take out the biggest 30-year mortgage you qualify for, and invest every other dollar into the stock market.

I would rather have no or low payments, a paid for house, high cash flow, and lots of liquidity. I'm following the Dave Ramsey baby steps approach. He's not universally admired on this forum, especially for his horrible investment advice, but his advice to pay off debt before investing works well for me.

It's a personal decision and no one can tell you the "right" answer.
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aristotelian
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by aristotelian »

I pretty much go with the wiki. Only exception might be if you want to build up taxable account to have a cushion of funds over and above your emergency fund, then it might make sense to underfunded your 401k.
Chadnudj
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Chadnudj »

Engineer250 wrote: Let's say you have

a) An emergency fund that is less than 3 months
b) Access to a 401k with a match
c) Access (income low enough) to a Roth IRA
d) Student loan debt around 4-5%
e) Upcoming expenses

Let's say you can save about $20k a year. Do you...max out your 401k without topping off your emergency fund? Reduce your 401k to the match in order to save in your emergency fund only? Where does the student loan debt fall in list of priorities (I'm not sure if 4-5% is supposed to be "low" or "high") and at what point do you prioritize paying it off? Do you save for the upcoming expenses at the risk of 401k, take on more student loan debt, or use your emergency fund for the expenses while continuing to max retirement?

Thanks I welcome everyone's insight, opinions, and advice.
Here's my thoughts based on your hypothetical (emergency fund less than 3 months, income below Roth maximum, $20k a year to save, student loan debt, etc.):

1. Get the 401k match. This is a 100% return, so that's priority number one. Unsure how much of the $20k available that impacts, but if you're doing traditional 401k, you'll be using pre-tax money, so it probably won't impact your take home paycheck as much.
2. Max out the Roth IRA at $5.5k. This is important because (a) Roths are great generally (tax free growth, no RMDs down the line), (b) this space is "use it or lose it" each year, (c) if you're young, you'll appreciate the compounding effects, but also (d) you can always access your contributions (i.e. the $5.5k you put in each year) without penalty, meaning that by adding to your Roth IRA, you are, effectively, adding to your emergency fund (except this is a "last resort, seriously don't touch this if you can avoid it" emergency fund).
3. At this point, it's up for debate between the upcoming expenses (it really depends on what they are) and contributing to max out the 401k (currently $18k).

So why not contribute more to the emergency fund? Well, by maxing out the Roth, you somewhat DO contribute to an emergency fund.

And why not pay down the student loans? Well, given that you're below the Roth IRA cutoff in income, it's probably safe to say that you make a low enough amount that your student loan interest is deductible (up to $2500 in interest a year; income limit is $80k for an individual), and you can claim this deduction even if you don't itemize your taxes. This (in effect) means that the 4%-5% interest rate is actually lower by some amount (depends on the amount of your student loan debt and tax bracket, essentially). If they're federally funded loans (or even some private ones) you could also place them in deferment/forbearance if you lost your job/had an emergency, or become eligible for a income based repayment plan or loan forgiveness for some reason (public service, etc.).

Now, many Bogleheads who are smart would tell you to pay down the student loans anyways....and that's totally valid. But my two cents would be to prioritize the other goals ahead of that one.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by White Coat Investor »

Not sure there's a right answer to a lot of the issues that come up with weighing how different goals are funded. It can be pretty personal.
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TheHouse7
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by TheHouse7 »

Up to match in 401k
Emergency fund
Roth max
Debt paid off
401k max or other savings goals
"PSX will always go up 20%, why invest in anything else?!" -Father-in-law early retired.
Dottie57
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Dottie57 »

TheHouse7 wrote:Up to match in 401k
Emergency fund
Roth max
Debt paid off
401k max or other savings goals
+1

Emegency fund helps ensure you don't fall into debt again, which is why I think of it as a priority. It is a finite anount so fund it and be done until your expenses go up. After emergency fund Roth and then 401k again And debt.
JGoneRiding
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by JGoneRiding »

The above list depends a little on the cost of carrying the debt. I liked Meg's list on saving for college over retirement or vice versa. But in general the above is good advice for most.
dsmil
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by dsmil »

1) Up to match in 401k
2) Emergency fund
3) Roth max with retirement savings (if you can't max the Roth with retirement savings, than move some emergency money to the Roth)
4) After this, if you have other savings goals or haven't saved enough for retirement, I don't think that you necessarily have to pay off your student loans before doing anything. I've always found my student loan payments to be manageable, and have not made extra payments on my student loans if that has meant that I wasn't able to save a proper amount for retirement. When it comes to other things like houses or cars, the purely financial decision is usually to pay off student loans, but it's fine to save for other things before every penny of debt is paid off.
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goingup
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by goingup »

Suppose you make $100K and can save $20K per year.
*Set 401K contributions to 8%. You'll get the match and then some.
*Max Roth at $5.5K

With the above you've taken care of retirement planning for the year. With the $6.5K balance, top off your emergency fund, and chunk away student debt. What is the upcoming expense? Is it open heart surgery, or buying a home?
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Engineer250
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Engineer250 »

bigred77 wrote: I definitely undervalued liquidity in my 20s. I was lucky and never had a set back but I realize I was taking a calculated risk. I am comfortable with debt as a tool but I realize it needs to be used prudently. YMMV
Do you regret that? Would you have saved more if you did it all over again?
InKirkWeTrust wrote:When I first started working, I was putting 5% to 401k, 5% to emergency fund, 5% here, 5% there, etc. It felt like I was treading water and not making any progress.
This is definitely how I feel now, and similar to what I am doing, a little bit of everything and nothing really done fully.
InKirkWeTrust wrote: It's true that stocks historically have returned around 10% long term, so if your goal is simply to have the highest possible dollar amount in your portfolio on the day you retire, then you should just make the minimum payments on all your debt, take out the biggest 30-year mortgage you qualify for, and invest every other dollar into the stock market.

I would rather have no or low payments, a paid for house, high cash flow, and lots of liquidity. I'm following the Dave Ramsey baby steps approach. He's not universally admired on this forum, especially for his horrible investment advice, but his advice to pay off debt before investing works well for me.

It's a personal decision and no one can tell you the "right" answer.
I agree no one can tell me the right answer but I appreciate your perspective as it gives me something to think about.
aristotelian wrote:I pretty much go with the wiki. Only exception might be if you want to build up taxable account to have a cushion of funds over and above your emergency fund, then it might make sense to underfunded your 401k.
I think the wiki doesn't address the idea of an emergency fund and it's also somewhat vague on what constitutes high cost debt or low cost, so that's why I was seeing what others have done.
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aristotelian
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by aristotelian »

Engineer250 wrote:
aristotelian wrote:I pretty much go with the wiki. Only exception might be if you want to build up taxable account to have a cushion of funds over and above your emergency fund, then it might make sense to underfunded your 401k.
I think the wiki doesn't address the idea of an emergency fund and it's also somewhat vague on what constitutes high cost debt or low cost, so that's why I was seeing what others have done.
So do you have a specific situation that you are asking about? That is not really the purpose of the wiki.

From what you have stated, the loans are kind of in between. High interest would be credit card or bad car loan. Low interest would be a 3.5% mortgage. Your loans are a gray area. The wiki does link to a "pay down debt versus investing" wiki that goes into greater detail. Personally I would pay off the loans.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Paying_ ... _investing
RoadHouseFan
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by RoadHouseFan »

Work on increasing the emergency fund. Ideally you want this to be 60+ months.
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Engineer250
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Engineer250 »

Chadnudj wrote: Here's my thoughts based on your hypothetical (emergency fund less than 3 months, income below Roth maximum, $20k a year to save, student loan debt, etc.):

1. Get the 401k match. This is a 100% return, so that's priority number one. Unsure how much of the $20k available that impacts, but if you're doing traditional 401k, you'll be using pre-tax money, so it probably won't impact your take home paycheck as much.
2. Max out the Roth IRA at $5.5k. This is important because (a) Roths are great generally (tax free growth, no RMDs down the line), (b) this space is "use it or lose it" each year, (c) if you're young, you'll appreciate the compounding effects, but also (d) you can always access your contributions (i.e. the $5.5k you put in each year) without penalty, meaning that by adding to your Roth IRA, you are, effectively, adding to your emergency fund (except this is a "last resort, seriously don't touch this if you can avoid it" emergency fund).
3. At this point, it's up for debate between the upcoming expenses (it really depends on what they are) and contributing to max out the 401k (currently $18k).

So why not contribute more to the emergency fund? Well, by maxing out the Roth, you somewhat DO contribute to an emergency fund.

And why not pay down the student loans? Well, given that you're below the Roth IRA cutoff in income, it's probably safe to say that you make a low enough amount that your student loan interest is deductible (up to $2500 in interest a year; income limit is $80k for an individual), and you can claim this deduction even if you don't itemize your taxes. This (in effect) means that the 4%-5% interest rate is actually lower by some amount (depends on the amount of your student loan debt and tax bracket, essentially). If they're federally funded loans (or even some private ones) you could also place them in deferment/forbearance if you lost your job/had an emergency, or become eligible for a income based repayment plan or loan forgiveness for some reason (public service, etc.).

Now, many Bogleheads who are smart would tell you to pay down the student loans anyways....and that's totally valid. But my two cents would be to prioritize the other goals ahead of that one.
Thanks I like your reasoning and explanations for how you placed priorities. I agree prioritizing the loans or not is a personal decision, but what you are pointing out (yes they are federal) that they could be deferred or placed on income-based in the event of a job loss is a really good point that I hadn't considered.
White Coat Investor wrote:Not sure there's a right answer to a lot of the issues that come up with weighing how different goals are funded. It can be pretty personal.
I agree. But I trust a lot of the people on these boards and was curious how they would approach it, knowing there probably is no right answer.
TheHouse7 wrote:Up to match in 401k
Emergency fund
Roth max
Debt paid off
401k max or other savings goals
Thanks for your list. Would you hold off on Roth contributions completely until the emergency fund was full?
Dottie57 wrote: +1

Emegency fund helps ensure you don't fall into debt again, which is why I think of it as a priority. It is a finite anount so fund it and be done until your expenses go up. After emergency fund Roth and then 401k again And debt.
It does make me nervous to ignore it too long. I've never drained it and gone into debt, but have definitely needed it for home repairs (roof, agh).
JGoneRiding wrote:The above list depends a little on the cost of carrying the debt. I liked Meg's list on saving for college over retirement or vice versa. But in general the above is good advice for most.
What do you mean cost of carrying the debt? That's part of what I'm trying to figure out, does 4-5% interest rate qualify as high or low. Obviously if I said 17% credit card debt everyone would say that should be prioritized, but I don't know where this falls.
dsmil wrote:1) Up to match in 401k
2) Emergency fund
3) Roth max with retirement savings (if you can't max the Roth with retirement savings, than move some emergency money to the Roth)
4) After this, if you have other savings goals or haven't saved enough for retirement, I don't think that you necessarily have to pay off your student loans before doing anything. I've always found my student loan payments to be manageable, and have not made extra payments on my student loans if that has meant that I wasn't able to save a proper amount for retirement. When it comes to other things like houses or cars, the purely financial decision is usually to pay off student loans, but it's fine to save for other things before every penny of debt is paid off.
When you say move part of the EF to the Roth in order to max it out, how much of the EF do you think needs to be liquid and accessible? Or what amount is okay to move?
goingup wrote:Suppose you make $100K and can save $20K per year.
*Set 401K contributions to 8%. You'll get the match and then some.
*Max Roth at $5.5K

With the above you've taken care of retirement planning for the year. With the $6.5K balance, top off your emergency fund, and chunk away student debt. What is the upcoming expense? Is it open heart surgery, or buying a home?
Upcoming expense is the last year of college in my case, which I am hoping to cash flow instead of taking out another student loan, which certainly will be tricky but I am hoping possible. I only left it vague since for a lot of people this could be a car or something similar.
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Topic Author
Engineer250
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Engineer250 »

aristotelian wrote: So do you have a specific situation that you are asking about? That is not really the purpose of the wiki.
I didn't think where to prioritize emergency fund savings versus retirement savings was a specific situation. The wiki has a few helpful priority pages but none really draw all three together, or tell you where that emergency fund belongs (just assumes you already have one I guess?)
RoadHouseFan wrote:Work on increasing the emergency fund. Ideally you want this to be 60+ months.
Is that a typo? My whole 401k balance isn't anywhere near that :D
Where the tides of fortune take us, no man can know.
benevo
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by benevo »

Engineer250 wrote:I've read the Bogleheads wiki page on Prioritizing Investments https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Priorit ... nvestments and feel like it doesn't tackle enough questions of how to prioritize an emergency fund vs. retirement vs loans. I would like to know either "this is what I would do" or "this is what I would tell someone to do". I understand people will have different opinions but I think it could be helpful to more than just me (and why I haven't framed this as a personal question, the situation must be common enough, but can provide more details if someone thinks it will make any difference).

Let's say you have

a) An emergency fund that is less than 3 months
b) Access to a 401k with a match
c) Access (income low enough) to a Roth IRA
d) Student loan debt around 4-5%
e) Upcoming expenses

Let's say you can save about $20k a year. Do you...max out your 401k without topping off your emergency fund? Reduce your 401k to the match in order to save in your emergency fund only? Where does the student loan debt fall in list of priorities (I'm not sure if 4-5% is supposed to be "low" or "high") and at what point do you prioritize paying it off? Do you save for the upcoming expenses at the risk of 401k, take on more student loan debt, or use your emergency fund for the expenses while continuing to max retirement?

Thanks I welcome everyone's insight, opinions, and advice.
Another resource I always glance at in tandem with the BH wiki page you mention is this from /r/personalfinance:

https://i.imgur.com/CcEVQAV.png

Personally, as a 29-year-old, I do the following order of ops:

1. Put enough to 401(k) for match, if employer gives any
2. Save 80% of "extra" money toward emergency fund
3. Put more than minimum toward student loan - FYI, everyone will likely say something different here, but 4-5% isn't bad. I was paying 6.8% - which was the government # for grad loans until recently - until I refinanced with Earnest. (Now at 4.16%.)
4. Put remaining 20% of "extra money," if still exists after #3, toward more 401(k) contribution.
5. Put toward roth IRA
6. Put toward upcoming expenses

As you've seen, everyone has a different opinion and there's no right or wrong!
Last edited by benevo on Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by benevo »

bigred77 wrote:I definitely undervalued liquidity in my 20s. I was lucky and never had a set back but I realize I was taking a calculated risk. I am comfortable with debt as a tool but I realize it needs to be used prudently. YMMV
+everything!
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by aristotelian »

Engineer250 wrote:
aristotelian wrote: So do you have a specific situation that you are asking about? That is not really the purpose of the wiki.
I didn't think where to prioritize emergency fund savings versus retirement savings was a specific situation. The wiki has a few helpful priority pages but none really draw all three together, or tell you where that emergency fund belongs (just assumes you already have one I guess?)
Emergency fund is generally a top priority. But once you have a certain threshold that you are comfortable with, you set and forget. The threshold is definitely a specific situation. Are you in a super secure job, like the military or a tenured professor? Or are you a freelance that could go 6 months without working?

I would not say anything more specific than the Wiki unless you are asking about a specific situation.
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by CantPassAgain »

One would have to be able to save more than $20K a year to tackle anything beyond #4 but I think this is a pretty good guide for anyone:

1) 401K to maximize available match. If in 15% tax bracket, choose Roth 401k, 25% and above, choose traditional 401K.
2) Roth IRA to the legal max (doubles as emergency fund buffer)
3) High interest debt
4) Emergency fund to 6 months
5) If in 25% and above tax bracket:
(a) contribute enough to traditional 401K to get to 15% bracket (if possible). If you can do this, ignore (b) below and skip to 6.1.
(b) If this is not possible (ie, your income is too high) then contribute to traditional 401K to the legal maximum and skip to 6.2.

6.1) continue to contribute to Roth 401K to the legal maximum, or
6.2) pay down low interest debt (including mortgage)

7) Taxable investing.
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Engineer250
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Engineer250 »

aristotelian wrote:
Engineer250 wrote:
aristotelian wrote: So do you have a specific situation that you are asking about? That is not really the purpose of the wiki.
I didn't think where to prioritize emergency fund savings versus retirement savings was a specific situation. The wiki has a few helpful priority pages but none really draw all three together, or tell you where that emergency fund belongs (just assumes you already have one I guess?)
Emergency fund is generally a top priority. But once you have a certain threshold that you are comfortable with, you set and forget. The threshold is definitely a specific situation. Are you in a super secure job, like the military or a tenured professor? Or are you a freelance that could go 6 months without working?

I would not say anything more specific than the Wiki unless you are asking about a specific situation.
Right. As per "set and forget" I'm saying what's the priority in establishing an emergency fund in the first place. Not trying to decide how many months it should be or how much "more" it should have. What if you already know it's inadequate, how to prioritize filling it along with all the other things I've mentioned. None of that is mentioned in the wiki and I don't think it's an unusual or specific circumstance. Emergency funds don't spontaneously appear fully funded.
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aristotelian
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by aristotelian »

Engineer250 wrote:
Right. As per "set and forget" I'm saying what's the priority in establishing an emergency fund in the first place. Not trying to decide how many months it should be or how much "more" it should have. What if you already know it's inadequate, how to prioritize filling it along with all the other things I've mentioned. None of that is mentioned in the wiki and I don't think it's an unusual or specific circumstance. Emergency funds don't spontaneously appear fully funded.
If your emergency fund is inadequate, that is your top priority, period.
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by simplesimon »

I'd get the 401K match, max the Roth, then build up the emergency fund if you're comfortable that this plan costs you 4-5% on monies you're putting into your savings account. If not, then split up emergency fund building and debt repayment 50/50 as a starting point.

You may be surprised how much better you'll feel about your job situation and everyday spending decisions when you have liquidity.
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by Dottie57 »

Engineer250 wrote:
aristotelian wrote:
Engineer250 wrote:
aristotelian wrote: So do you have a specific situation that you are asking about? That is not really the purpose of the wiki.
I didn't think where to prioritize emergency fund savings versus retirement savings was a specific situation. The wiki has a few helpful priority pages but none really draw all three together, or tell you where that emergency fund belongs (just assumes you already have one I guess?)
Emergency fund is generally a top priority. But once you have a certain threshold that you are comfortable with, you set and forget. The threshold is definitely a specific situation. Are you in a super secure job, like the military or a tenured professor? Or are you a freelance that could go 6 months without working?

I would not say anything more specific than the Wiki unless you are asking about a specific situation.
Right. As per "set and forget" I'm saying what's the priority in establishing an emergency fund in the first place. Not trying to decide how many months it should be or how much "more" it should have. What if you already know it's inadequate, how to prioritize filling it along with all the other things I've mentioned. None of that is mentioned in the wiki and I don't think it's an unusual or specific circumstance. Emergency funds don't spontaneously appear fully funded.

Everyone needs to use a bit of common sense. You need to have a plan for the unexpected but necessary expense. Do you have anyone to help you financially? If you have a fallback plan other than emergency fund -ok ...
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by seity »

I would say I fall into this category.
What I've been doing:
1) Match my 401k up to match (This puts me in the 15% tax bracket)
2) A few extra percent to 401k Roth (varies depending on $ needed to pay expenses)
3) Pay down CC debt (Trying to pay down emergency expenses from the past few years, mostly medical, all being juggled on 0% int credit cards)
4) Rebuild emergency fund - currently only keep $1000 to cover expenses that might pop up in a month putting me temporarily over what I can cover until the next paycheck.
5) Save for upcoming big expense (IE replace aging car)

*I have an unused HELOC in case of an emergency that I can't cover with a 0% credit card or if the CC offers suddenly dry up.

I figure I'm sort of doing a happy medium of all the options.
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Re: Order of Operations (Retirement, Loans, Emergency Fund)

Post by dsmil »

Engineer250 wrote:
dsmil wrote:1) Up to match in 401k
2) Emergency fund
3) Roth max with retirement savings (if you can't max the Roth with retirement savings, than move some emergency money to the Roth)
4) After this, if you have other savings goals or haven't saved enough for retirement, I don't think that you necessarily have to pay off your student loans before doing anything. I've always found my student loan payments to be manageable, and have not made extra payments on my student loans if that has meant that I wasn't able to save a proper amount for retirement. When it comes to other things like houses or cars, the purely financial decision is usually to pay off student loans, but it's fine to save for other things before every penny of debt is paid off.
When you say move part of the EF to the Roth in order to max it out, how much of the EF do you think needs to be liquid and accessible? Or what amount is okay to move?
I don't think it's too concerning to have a big chunk of your emergency fund within a Roth. I have half of my emergency funds there. Withdrawing of Roth contributions shouldn't take more than a few days, and you'd be fine with a credit card, or in the case of needing the funds due to lost wages, getting the funds in a few days would be fine. Eventually though, the goal would be to save enough for retirement so that you could convert your emergency funds in the Roth to retirement funds, and build up the emergency fund outside of the Roth.
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