Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity

Post by TheTimeLord »

*3!4!/5! wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:I substitute FID's Premium Class funds for VG Admiral Class without any problems

Fidelity Total Market Index Fund Premium Class (FSTVX) -- 0.04% ER
Fidelity Total International Index Fund Premium Class (FTIPX) -- 0.11% ER
Fidelity U. S. Bond Index Fund Premium Class (FSITX) -- 0.05% ER

Compared to:

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) -- 0.05% ER
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) -- 0.12% ER
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VBTLX) -- 0.06% ER

Yea FID's are 0.01% cheaper but there roughly half VG on Net assets so it's a toss. -- look at the yield difference, VG is better.
Acually FTIPX has about 99.95% less assets than VTIAX, and its performance appears to be lagging badly for an index fund.
Didn't someone point out they tracked different indices?
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brad.clarkston
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity

Post by brad.clarkston »

TheTimeLord wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:I substitute FID's Premium Class funds for VG Admiral Class without any problems

Fidelity Total Market Index Fund Premium Class (FSTVX) -- 0.04% ER
Fidelity Total International Index Fund Premium Class (FTIPX) -- 0.11% ER
Fidelity U. S. Bond Index Fund Premium Class (FSITX) -- 0.05% ER

Compared to:

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) -- 0.05% ER
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) -- 0.12% ER
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VBTLX) -- 0.06% ER

Yea FID's are 0.01% cheaper but there roughly half VG on Net assets so it's a toss. -- look at the yield difference, VG is better.
Acually FTIPX has about 99.95% less assets than VTIAX, and its performance appears to be lagging badly for an index fund.
Didn't someone point out they tracked different indices?
Yes the Dow Jones but for purposes of using a no load fee, low ER fund at Fidelity those are the closest. It doesn't make a loot of sense to spend $7.95 per trade to buy the VG indexes when these are a close enough match to just be "noise".
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mcraepat9
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by mcraepat9 »

FTIPX has been open for what, 6 months? Seems a bit too soon to get worked up over this.
Amateur investors are not cool-headed logicians.
*3!4!/5!
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by *3!4!/5! »

mcraepat9 wrote:FTIPX has been open for what, 6 months? Seems a bit too soon to get worked up over this.
This seems to have it exactly backwards.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by TheTimeLord »

mcraepat9 wrote:FTIPX has been open for what, 6 months? Seems a bit too soon to get worked up over this.
+1

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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by brad.clarkston »

*3!4!/5! wrote:
mcraepat9 wrote:FTIPX has been open for what, 6 months? Seems a bit too soon to get worked up over this.
This seems to have it exactly backwards.
Lol,yes to both directions ;)

It's nice that there are now "somewhat" VG equivalents to use NTF at Fidelity but yes they are pretty shiny new.

Not quite as good as the VG versions but competitive in value and price. What's the William Pollard saying? "Without change there is no innovation, creativity, or incentive for improvement. I suspect once VG recovers from the throws of success they will innovate again.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by TheTimeLord »

brad.clarkston wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
mcraepat9 wrote:FTIPX has been open for what, 6 months? Seems a bit too soon to get worked up over this.
This seems to have it exactly backwards.
Lol,yes to both directions ;)

It's nice that there are now "somewhat" VG equivalents to use NTF at Fidelity but yes they are pretty shiny new.

Not quite as good as the VG versions but competitive in value and price. What's the William Pollard saying? "Without change there is no innovation, creativity, or incentive for improvement. I suspect once VG recovers from the throws of success they will innovate again.
As a Fidelity customer I would purchase the commission free ETF IXUS for this purpose. But I keep my developed and emerging market investments separate so I really have no use for either.
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toto238
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by toto238 »

my $0.02

Pros at Fidelity:
If you have a lot of customer service needs, you will almost certainly get better service. You don't wait on hold as long, they're more likely to do things correct the first time.

Expenses on their index products and other ETFs available through them are on par or even cheaper than Vanguard products right now.

Cons at Fidelity:
Fidelity's structure is such that they prefer to push clients into high-expense active funds. If you're an experienced Boglehead, it's not particularly difficult to avoid these. However I think of my parents, kids, siblings, etc who aren't as financially inclined. If I encourage any of them to open an account at Fidelity, I would not be surprised if they fell victim to an expensive asset management service with high-expense funds.

That high service you receive from Fidelity doesn't come from nowhere, someone is paying for it. And if you are investing only in low-expense ETFs and Vanguard products, you are likely costing Fidelity much more in customer service than you are paying in any kind of fees to them. Your higher level of service is being paid for by other customers who fall for those high-fee traps and are paying through the nose. Is it sustainable long-term that Fidelity would do nothing about some of its clients being a net cost to them? Fidelity is a private company owned by the Johnson family and those owners want to see a profit. Could they target the clients who are costing them money at some point in the future? Maybe.

While Fidelity funds have lowered their expense ratios to be competitive with Vanguard, this is almost certainly a loss leader for them. It is very unlikely they are making much if any profit on these funds. They also are much less likely to share their security lending revenue with their shareholders, and this can easily be worth between 5-25bps. I worry about buying a bunch of a fund in a taxable account, building up huge capital gains, and then the fund expenses increase significantly. Then I'm stuck in a high-expense fund that I can't sell without massive tax consequences. This could happen at any fund family, but I feel that Fidelity's corporate structure incentivizes it.

Pros at Vanguard:
If your customer service needs are minimal, their service as perfectly adequate. If you're the kind of investor that invests in 4 funds or less, Dollar-cost-average in, and just invest in simple accounts (Individual, Joint, Trad IRA, Roth IRA), and prefer to do everything on the web anyway, you'll almost certainly be perfectly satisfied.

Expenses on Vanguard products are nearly always either the lowest or very close to the lowest in the industry. They also share more than 90% of their security lending revenue with their shareholders, which at 5-25bps can make a much bigger difference than a 1-2bp difference in expense ratio.

At Vanguard, I know that I can help my friends, family, etc open accounts and know that they will never be taken advantage of. They will never be put into high-expense ratio funds, or be enrolled in a high-cost advisory service. The only advisory service Vanguard offers is at a cost of 30bps and honestly is probably a pretty great value for anyone who doesn't have the time, ability or willingness to manage their own assets (A large majority of Americans). I can rest easy knowing that if I pass Vanguard won't tell my heirs to sell all my index funds and put everything into this fancy new actively managed fund that will make all their dreams come true.

Vanguard's corporate structure is set so that expenses should be pushed lower over time. Vanguard's stated mission includes lowering costs for all investors (and in fact is a very large reason behind why companies like Fidelity even offer low-expense funds). It is very unlikely that the expenses in my Vanguard funds will jump up significantly, or that Vanguard would ever decide to move away from index funds as a corporate strategy. I can invest in Vanguard funds in a taxable account with the comfort of knowing I won't get stuck in a high-expense fund at some point down the road.

Cons at Vanguard:
If you have a lot of customer service needs, Vanguard is not currently great at that. The hold to talk to a rep is usually pretty long, and it would seem many (if not a majority) have pretty low tenure. If you have complex account types (SEPs, SIMPLEs, solo 401ks, 403b7s, trust accounts, organization accounts), their web interface can be frustrating. If you are looking to trade a lot of stocks/ETFs/etc you will find Vanguard's brokerage platform to be somewhat Spartan. If you like to have physical offices to walk into, you won't have that with Vanguard.



In the end, it depends on what type of investor you are. Many, if not most, Bogleheads like to keep things as simple as possible and for them Vanguard is more than sufficient to meet their needs. Others have very complex needs and hate to use the web, so would much rather take their paperwork to a physical office and have someone help them fill out every page while sitting next to them.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by brad.clarkston »

TheTimeLord wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
mcraepat9 wrote:FTIPX has been open for what, 6 months? Seems a bit too soon to get worked up over this.
This seems to have it exactly backwards.
Lol,yes to both directions ;)

It's nice that there are now "somewhat" VG equivalents to use NTF at Fidelity but yes they are pretty shiny new.

Not quite as good as the VG versions but competitive in value and price. What's the William Pollard saying? "Without change there is no innovation, creativity, or incentive for improvement. I suspect once VG recovers from the throws of success they will innovate again.
As a Fidelity customer I would purchase the commission free ETF IXUS for this purpose. But I keep my developed and emerging market investments separate so I really have no use for either.
That's a very good point, Fidelity doesn't have a "good" International SCV *anything* but then nether does VG in my opinion (IXUS/VXUS). I'm still looking for something better in those factors (SCV DE/EM) that does not require a $500k advisor buy-in.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by brad.clarkston »

toto238 wrote:
Cons at Fidelity:
Fidelity's structure is such that they prefer to push clients into high-expense active funds. If you're an experienced Boglehead, it's not particularly difficult to avoid these.
What is your definition of "high-expense active funds" ?? Vanguard also has a fairly large slew of active funds they push.

I do find it humorous when new forum users list only a handful of there 401k funds becouse the others are not .05-.7% ER!

The "Tao of Boglehead" is a great thing (saved my bacon!) but that's a very small set of rigid MF's that comprise the 3-fund & Lazy Port's. And the MF's they can likely start using has ER's in the high teens-low twenty's so they have to punt into ETF's which is just as small a list.

There are some pretty good funds in the .15-.30'ish% ER that can substitute or provide tilt in even a BH's portfolio wither it's Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab. Sticking to one rigid mantra isn't always the best idea in all situations, just most.

.
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Angelus359
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Angelus359 »

brad.clarkston wrote:
toto238 wrote:
Cons at Fidelity:
Fidelity's structure is such that they prefer to push clients into high-expense active funds. If you're an experienced Boglehead, it's not particularly difficult to avoid these.
What is your definition of "high-expense active funds" ?? Vanguard also has a fairly large slew of active funds they push.

I do find it humorous when new forum users list only a handful of there 401k funds becouse the others are not .05-.7% ER!

The "Tao of Boglehead" is a great thing (saved my bacon!) but that's a very small set of rigid MF's that comprise the 3-fund & Lazy Port's. And the MF's they can likely start using has ER's in the high teens-low twenty's so they have to punt into ETF's which is just as small a list.

There are some pretty good funds in the .15-.30'ish% ER that can substitute or provide tilt in even a BH's portfolio wither it's Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab. Sticking to one rigid mantra isn't always the best idea in all situations, just most.

.
Vanguard doesn't have high cost funds.

Their active stuff is still cheap.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by brad.clarkston »

Angelus359 wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
toto238 wrote:
Cons at Fidelity:
Fidelity's structure is such that they prefer to push clients into high-expense active funds. If you're an experienced Boglehead, it's not particularly difficult to avoid these.
What is your definition of "high-expense active funds" ?? Vanguard also has a fairly large slew of active funds they push.

I do find it humorous when new forum users list only a handful of there 401k funds becouse the others are not .05-.7% ER!

The "Tao of Boglehead" is a great thing (saved my bacon!) but that's a very small set of rigid MF's that comprise the 3-fund & Lazy Port's. And the MF's they can likely start using has ER's in the high teens-low twenty's so they have to punt into ETF's which is just as small a list.

There are some pretty good funds in the .15-.30'ish% ER that can substitute or provide tilt in even a BH's portfolio wither it's Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab. Sticking to one rigid mantra isn't always the best idea in all situations, just most.

.
Vanguard doesn't have high cost funds.

Their active stuff is still cheap.

Cool so that's a round-about-answer of your OK with pretty much anything at .9 and under ;)

Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index Inv (VISGX) -- ER .20%
Vanguard Small Cap Index Inv (NAESX) -- ER .20%
Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Inv (VISVX) -- ER .20%
Vanguard Equity-Income Inv (VEIPX) -- ER .26%
Vanguard European Stock Index Inv (VEURX) -- ER 0.26%
Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock Idx Inv (VEIEX) -- ER 0.37%
Vanguard Explorer Inv (VEXPX) -- ER 0.45%
Vanguard Explorer Value Inv (VEVFX)-- ER 0.57%
Vanguard Emerging Markets Bond Investor (VEMBX) -- 0.60%
Vanguard Emerg Mkts Sel Stk Inv (VMMSX) -- ER 0.90%

That's a small sample I didn't go through all of there funds. Personally I start to get antsy around .5 it's got to be a darn special fund.

.
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mcraepat9
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by mcraepat9 »

*3!4!/5! wrote:
mcraepat9 wrote:FTIPX has been open for what, 6 months? Seems a bit too soon to get worked up over this.
This seems to have it exactly backwards.
Please explain.
Amateur investors are not cool-headed logicians.
toto238
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by toto238 »

brad.clarkston wrote:
Angelus359 wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
toto238 wrote:
Cons at Fidelity:
Fidelity's structure is such that they prefer to push clients into high-expense active funds. If you're an experienced Boglehead, it's not particularly difficult to avoid these.
What is your definition of "high-expense active funds" ?? Vanguard also has a fairly large slew of active funds they push.

I do find it humorous when new forum users list only a handful of there 401k funds becouse the others are not .05-.7% ER!

The "Tao of Boglehead" is a great thing (saved my bacon!) but that's a very small set of rigid MF's that comprise the 3-fund & Lazy Port's. And the MF's they can likely start using has ER's in the high teens-low twenty's so they have to punt into ETF's which is just as small a list.

There are some pretty good funds in the .15-.30'ish% ER that can substitute or provide tilt in even a BH's portfolio wither it's Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab. Sticking to one rigid mantra isn't always the best idea in all situations, just most.

.
Vanguard doesn't have high cost funds.

Their active stuff is still cheap.

Cool so that's a round-about-answer of your OK with pretty much anything at .9 and under ;)

Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index Inv (VISGX) -- ER .20%
Vanguard Small Cap Index Inv (NAESX) -- ER .20%
Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Inv (VISVX) -- ER .20%
Vanguard Equity-Income Inv (VEIPX) -- ER .26%
Vanguard European Stock Index Inv (VEURX) -- ER 0.26%
Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock Idx Inv (VEIEX) -- ER 0.37%
Vanguard Explorer Inv (VEXPX) -- ER 0.45%
Vanguard Explorer Value Inv (VEVFX)-- ER 0.57%
Vanguard Emerging Markets Bond Investor (VEMBX) -- 0.60%
Vanguard Emerg Mkts Sel Stk Inv (VMMSX) -- ER 0.90%

That's a small sample I didn't go through all of there funds. Personally I start to get antsy around .5 it's got to be a darn special fund.

.
Look at what these funds are investing in:

VISGX (small caps) - ER .20% - Category average 1.32%
NAESX (small caps) - ER .20% - Category average 1.21%
I'm gonna skip by the rest of the index funds because it's the same story with all of them. Look at the actives you listed:
Equity-Income (large-cap value) - ER 0.26% - Category average 1.07%
Explorer Fund (small caps) - ER .49% - Category Average 1.32%
Explorer Value (small caps) - ER .63% - Category Average 1.31%
Emerging Markets Select Stock (international, small markets) - ER 0.93% - Category Average 1.49%


For their categories, every single one of the funds you mentioned is significantly cheaper than the average for their category. Not by a little. By a LOT.
toto238
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by toto238 »

Bottom line, it's more expensive to manage small-cap funds than large-cap. It's more expensive to manage bonds than stocks. And it's more expensive to manage international than domestic.

So you went and picked out a bunch of small cap funds, international funds, and even an international bond fund and tried to use that as an example to prove VG has high cost funds. But you're comparing apples to oranges.

It's like I said "Lamborghinis are fast" and you said "not when they're towing a 10-ton truck."
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Punta Cana DR »

I moved all holding to Fidelity and very happy. The website and service is great - 24 hours. I transferred all my VG assets in kind with no problem.

In addition, Fidelity has many commission free ETF's from Blackrock. ITOT is only .03% ER (a Russell 1500 index). Vanguard was great, but I prefer the Fidelity website tools and interface. However, I think VG made Fidelity improve to match market competition.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by brad.clarkston »

toto238 wrote:Bottom line, it's more expensive to manage small-cap funds than large-cap. It's more expensive to manage bonds than stocks. And it's more expensive to manage international than domestic.

So you went and picked out a bunch of small cap funds, international funds, and even an international bond fund and tried to use that as an example to prove VG has high cost funds. But you're comparing apples to oranges.

It's like I said "Lamborghinis are fast" and you said "not when they're towing a 10-ton truck."
That's a strawman, your trying to prove a point that had nothing to do with my post.
I'm not sure you even read the discussion.


[quote="Angelus359]
Vanguard doesn't have high cost funds.
Their active stuff is still cheap.

[/quote]

I cut and pasted from morningstars list of VG's high fund SC and/or International page to show that they like any other broker have funds above .0x actually quite a few more than I listed from .2-.9 I just didn't take the time to bother with it.

I find it's better to take the 'Church of Vanguard' out of the equation and just treat them like any other investing product - one of many it broadens your choices immensely.

.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by ruralavalon »

brad.clarkston wrote:
toto238 wrote:Bottom line, it's more expensive to manage small-cap funds than large-cap. It's more expensive to manage bonds than stocks. And it's more expensive to manage international than domestic.

So you went and picked out a bunch of small cap funds, international funds, and even an international bond fund and tried to use that as an example to prove VG has high cost funds. But you're comparing apples to oranges.

It's like I said "Lamborghinis are fast" and you said "not when they're towing a 10-ton truck."
That's a strawman, your trying to prove a point that had nothing to do with my post.
I'm not sure you even read the discussion.


[quote="Angelus359]
Vanguard doesn't have high cost funds.
Their active stuff is still cheap.
I cut and pasted from morningstars list of VG's high fund SC and/or International page to show that they like any other broker have funds above .0x actually quite a few more than I listed from .2-.9 I just didn't take the time to bother with it.

I find it's better to take the 'Church of Vanguard' out of the equation and just treat them like any other investing product - one of many it broadens your choices immensely.

.[/quote][/quote]

Did you think that the 10 funds that you gave as examples have high expense ratios?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by brad.clarkston »

ruralavalon wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
toto238 wrote:Bottom line, it's more expensive to manage small-cap funds than large-cap. It's more expensive to manage bonds than stocks. And it's more expensive to manage international than domestic.

So you went and picked out a bunch of small cap funds, international funds, and even an international bond fund and tried to use that as an example to prove VG has high cost funds. But you're comparing apples to oranges.

It's like I said "Lamborghinis are fast" and you said "not when they're towing a 10-ton truck."
That's a strawman, your trying to prove a point that had nothing to do with my post.
I'm not sure you even read the discussion.


[quote="Angelus359]
Vanguard doesn't have high cost funds.
Their active stuff is still cheap.
I cut and pasted from morningstars list of VG's high fund SC and/or International page to show that they like any other broker have funds above .0x actually quite a few more than I listed from .2-.9 I just didn't take the time to bother with it.

I find it's better to take the 'Church of Vanguard' out of the equation and just treat them like any other investing product - one of many it broadens your choices immensely.

Did you think that the 10 funds that you gave as examples have high expense ratios?[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

It depends on the context which was my point I just didn't articulate it well.

For a limited 401k I don't think a .2 or .3 is to bad if there isn't a good target date fund available. All of the US Small-Cap Value funds would be a good addition if a 401k only has the VG S&P 500 fund - allot of smaller company plans have it instead of the 3-port funds we normally use and I'm a advocate of a SC-V tilt.

I'm researching SC-V non-US so it's on my mind allot none of the ones I listed are anywhere close to "good" in my opinion.

.
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PStrider
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by PStrider »

If I don't have a specific product I want from Vanguard (wellington and wellesley funds come to mind), I would pick Fidelity every time.

So far it's been quite an ordeal and very time consuming to set up my mom's retirement account and becoming her custodian with V.

I've called both V and F asking for retirement and portfolio advice several times, and Fidelity won easily, and it's not even close.

Cheers.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by GreenGrowTheDollars »

Been a Fidelity customer for many years; used to be a Vanguard customer.

Fidelity's customer service experience is at or better than the level of Amex's. They answer the phone, the reps are wonderfully trained, they listen, and if you need to be transferred to a new group, the original rep stays on the line to make sure that the transfer is good. When we needed to move MIL's trust assets from Putnam (yuck) Fidelity was a dream to work with, and being able to go into an office made it that much easier. We trade stocks, buy index funds/ETF's, and have IRA's, Roth's, solo 401K, and several taxable accounts with Fidelity. I've never felt that they pushed funds on us, though back when we first opened IRA's we certainly invested in their well-known Peter Lynch managed fund. (That was back when we used Money Magazine as guidance for what funds to buy. We were young. :D )

Vanguard's funds we were invested in at the same time were all managed funds. Even back then, Vanguard's customer service was not as sharp. Eventually, we decided on simplicity and elected to consolidate where the service was better.
toto238
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by toto238 »

brad.clarkston wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
toto238 wrote:Bottom line, it's more expensive to manage small-cap funds than large-cap. It's more expensive to manage bonds than stocks. And it's more expensive to manage international than domestic.

So you went and picked out a bunch of small cap funds, international funds, and even an international bond fund and tried to use that as an example to prove VG has high cost funds. But you're comparing apples to oranges.

It's like I said "Lamborghinis are fast" and you said "not when they're towing a 10-ton truck."
That's a strawman, your trying to prove a point that had nothing to do with my post.
I'm not sure you even read the discussion.


[quote="Angelus359]
Vanguard doesn't have high cost funds.
Their active stuff is still cheap.
I cut and pasted from morningstars list of VG's high fund SC and/or International page to show that they like any other broker have funds above .0x actually quite a few more than I listed from .2-.9 I just didn't take the time to bother with it.

I find it's better to take the 'Church of Vanguard' out of the equation and just treat them like any other investing product - one of many it broadens your choices immensely.

Did you think that the 10 funds that you gave as examples have high expense ratios?
[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

It depends on the context which was my point I just didn't articulate it well.

For a limited 401k I don't think a .2 or .3 is to bad if there isn't a good target date fund available. All of the US Small-Cap Value funds would be a good addition if a 401k only has the VG S&P 500 fund - allot of smaller company plans have it instead of the 3-port funds we normally use and I'm a advocate of a SC-V tilt.

I'm researching SC-V non-US so it's on my mind allot none of the ones I listed are anywhere close to "good" in my opinion.

.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

You looked for the absolute most expensive VG funds, and then tried to compare them to the cheapest funds at another institution. Yeah that's definitely a fair comparison.

A huge difference is what the employees of each company will actually push you towards. At VG, if you ask reps for guidance, they won't push you towards those funds you mentioned. They direct you to Total Stock-Total Bond-Total International-etc.

At Fidelity, if you ask for guidance on funds to pick, they aren't going to default to their Spartan funds. You basically have to ask about their Spartan funds for them to mention it. They also encourage clients to use a bunch of fancy-looking stock-tracking tools to encourage them to trade as much as possible, churning their own accounts and racking up trading fees.

That might not be super important to a Boglehead that knows what they're doing. But will my heirs be so well informed? Would I feel comfortable telling my family and friends to open accounts with this institution knowing full well they could end up in high-fee active funds, or racking up huge trading fees from churning their own accounts?

For me personally, I will suffer through a bit of inconvenience in the rare instances that I actually need customer service (once or twice per decade usually) for the peace of mind of knowing my friends, family and heirs will not be taken advantage of.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by slowbutsteady »

PStrider wrote: I've called both V and F asking for retirement and portfolio advice several times, and Fidelity won easily, and it's not even close.

Cheers.
Same consistent experience. I will rate Fidelity a 9/10 and Vanguard a 2/10. Fidelity customers service folks are knowledgeable, polished, and just so on top of it. Vanguard's are just the opposite (but for a surprising luck with surprisinglu syperb Vanguard agent who help with a 401k issue last year).

A recent back to back transaction of shifting funds from investor to premium class with a few intermediate trades to make this happen was smooth with the Fidelity rep and a nightmare with Vanguard's. Rep did not even know you can trade immediately with funds from an ETFs sale...took some convincing. Better hiring? Better training?

Love Vanguard's fund selections and the website is very fine by me. But the customers service...night vs day relative to Fidelity's.
The tortoise wins every time I read that story.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Chicago60 »

slowbutsteady wrote:
Love Vanguard's fund selections and the website is very fine by me. But the customers service...night vs day relative to Fidelity's.
I agree completely. I have had an account at Fidelity for 10 years. Never a problem or issue. I opened a Roth401K last summer at Vanguard for my individual 401K. (Fidelity did not have a Roth option). Slow to open, but not too difficult. Then, just before Christmas, I decided to open the regular 401K and have my sole proprietorship fund the employer portion. My stated objective was to fund before year-end. The rep did not tell me opening the account would almost certainly not happen in a week (In numerous subsequent conversations I was told 21 days is Vanguard policy), and it has taken no less than 5 phone calls to get the account finally opened. Today. It took 4 weeks to open a simple 401K account. But, now that the account is finally open, I am hopeful I will not have issues with Vanguard, or need customer service.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by stocknoob4111 »

I started a transfer at Vanguard 5 days ago and Vanguard has not even initiated the transfer as of now... in addition I cannot call them as I got tired of holding for 30+ mins twice, even when they said call during the evenings, the hold times are insane. I have close to $1M with them and I get better service when I take my car in for a $50 oil/filter change. I don't call VG often and the last time I called them was a year and a half ago and don't recall it being close of half as bad as now. Wonder what changed.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by goshenBogle »

I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.

I have no idea why some folks have problems with Vanguard customer service. IMHO, I think they are great.
Retired and loving it!!!!
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Tubes »

goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.

I have no idea why some folks have problems with Vanguard customer service. IMHO, I think they are great.
Not everyone can "speak to their rep" because they don't have a rep. So your view may be different.

Reps were taken away from many of the Flagship customers, including myself. A special set of customers remain with reps. The parameters for that treatment are not published.

That said, I recently transferred my IRA to a Fidelity 401k. The process was fast and smooth. The Flagship number they gave me was picked up within 30 seconds, and the rep gave me the proper form, which worked well. I had the rollover check within a few days.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by stocknoob4111 »

I am on hold again because they said their lowest wait times are between 8am-10am, yet it's been 45 minutes on hold already and it's 8:30am EST. What a joke.

Question - I would consider transferring my assets to Fidelity, I already have my 401k and other accounts with them but my taxable brokerage with VG is close to $1M and if the assets are not transferred in kind I will be in a world of trouble with regard to taxes. This is my concern and not sure what protections there are in case the brokerages mess up my transfer.

Since VG has trillions in assets I doubt they give a damn about a million dollars leaving them, therein lies the crux of the issue.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by criticalmass »

goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.

I have no idea why some folks have problems with Vanguard customer service. IMHO, I think they are great.
Flagship customer here. Vanguard spontaneously created a new subaccount, then transferred one mutual fund to it. Then they locked me out of all accounts completely.

The first call to Vanguard customer service was only a 30 minute wait to talk to a person. They asked the same basic info I had entered to the automated phone system at the beginning of the call, then were unable to help. Another 10+ minute hold, then attempted to transfer the call....no go.

The second call to Vanguard resulted in just a 12 minute hold time, before the next rep started to look at my account and put me on "hold" by ending the call. Maybe he will call back someday. I'm sure they are busy trying....

The third call to customer service was worse, and after a lengthy hold the next rep was unable to answer my questions or help, including a second hold and wait for a licensed representative who eventually came in the line. Two hours and multiple calls, with no answers or resolution.

Fidelity customer service is many orders of magnitude better than the new Vanguard customer service capability. Not sure what is going on in Malvern, but signs point to a major tech and service meltdown is unfolding.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by goingup »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:03 am Question - I would consider transferring my assets to Fidelity, I already have my 401k and other accounts with them but my taxable brokerage with VG is close to $1M and if the assets are not transferred in kind I will be in a world of trouble with regard to taxes. This is my concern and not sure what protections there are in case the brokerages mess up my transfer.
This is unclear. Did you actually begin a transfer from Vanguard? Above you mentioned you are contacting Vanguard because the transfer hasn't started.

It's best to start a transfer with the receiving broker (Fidelity?). Tell them you are transferring all holdings "in kind". You'll want to clarify with Fidelity what fees you'll have to buy if you want to buy Vanguard funds there. You may also get a bonus for bringing your assets to them.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by stocknoob4111 »

goingup wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:00 am It's best to start a transfer with the receiving broker (Fidelity?). Tell them you are transferring all holdings "in kind". You'll want to clarify with Fidelity what fees you'll have to buy if you want to buy Vanguard funds there. You may also get a bonus for bringing your assets to them.
Nope, this is another transfer of a small amount from my Fidelity taxable brokerage to my VG taxable brokerage. My main taxable is with VG.

The problem with taxable transfers is that if something messes up then who is responsible? I have close to $1M in assets in my VG Taxable, if for instance they liquidate instead of transferring "in kind" it will generate a tax liability to me of six figures, who is going to be held accountable for that mistake? Probably nobody since they will just shrug their shoulders and move on.

I confirmed with Fidelity that Vanguard funds can be held there without fees and can also be sold without any fees. I believe there are fees to *buy* VG funds at Fidelity but no point buying VG funds since Fidelity has low/no fee funds as well. I think the days of VG being the lowest cost are long gone, Fidelity is just as good on the expense front and the service is far far better.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

You're really going to make a mess for yourself if you attempt to make transfers between taxable accounts at different brokers in both directions at the same time. Wait to get the resolution on the first before you start the second.
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goingup
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by goingup »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:07 am
goingup wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:00 am It's best to start a transfer with the receiving broker (Fidelity?). Tell them you are transferring all holdings "in kind". You'll want to clarify with Fidelity what fees you'll have to buy if you want to buy Vanguard funds there. You may also get a bonus for bringing your assets to them.
Nope, this is another transfer of a small amount from my Fidelity taxable brokerage to my VG taxable brokerage. My main taxable is with VG.

The problem with taxable transfers is that if something messes up then who is responsible? I have close to $1M in assets in my VG Taxable, if for instance they liquidate instead of transferring "in kind" it will generate a tax liability to me of six figures, who is going to be held accountable for that mistake? Probably nobody since they will just shrug their shoulders and move on.

I confirmed with Fidelity that Vanguard funds can be held there without fees and can also be sold without any fees. I believe there are fees to *buy* VG funds at Fidelity but no point buying VG funds since Fidelity has low/no fee funds as well. I think the days of VG being the lowest cost are long gone, Fidelity is just as good on the expense front and the service is far far better.
OK. I understand. You're going TO Vanguard with a small amount from Fidelity and that's not going well. It may be in process and just not visible to you yet?

If you decide to change course and move your large taxable to Fidelity, I would not worry about someone liquidating your account and leaving you with a tax bill. Brokers are very aware that clients want to transfer-in-kind and avoid the tax situation you mention.

Also, sorry for your woes at Vanguard. It's really unacceptable to wait on the phone for an hour. :(
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goingup
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by goingup »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:14 am You're really going to make a mess for yourself if you attempt to make transfers between taxable accounts at different brokers in both directions at the same time. Wait to get the resolution on the first before you start the second.
I agree with this! You'll multiply your troubles if you try to do a double flip!
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by stocknoob4111 »

I managed to get a hold of someone at VG after 1 hour 15 mins on hold, they told me the transfer was rejected due to an invalid account number for my Fidelity account (I gave the full account number but I guess they only wanted to abbreviated one). I have corrected and they are going to re-initiate.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by bondsr4me »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:18 am I managed to get a hold of someone at VG after 1 hour 15 mins on hold, they told me the transfer was rejected due to an invalid account number for my Fidelity account (I gave the full account number but I guess they only wanted to abbreviated one). I have corrected and they are going to re-initiate.
after you see the new account on the "Balances" screen, you should also see "Track your transfer" under that new account.
If you click that, you can see the status of the transfer.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by cowdogman »

goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.
Me too (well over 30 years), EXCEPT my Flagship rep disappeared from my Vanguard home screen a few weeks ago. No notice, no replacement. We are Flagship Select ($5M to $25M last time I checked).

I rarely call Vanguard and so it's no big loss, but in general service has been abysmal for a few years, often with a "our computer systems cannot do that" response.

I've already started the transfer process to Fidelity but haven't pulled the trigger. One of my superstitions is "don't change checkout lines at the grocery store" and so I am hesitating about making this move.

I agree with others that Vanguard could not care less if I moved to Fidelity.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by drzzzzz »

cowdogman wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:48 pm
goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.
Me too (well over 30 years), EXCEPT my Flagship rep disappeared from my Vanguard home screen a few weeks ago. No notice, no replacement. We are Flagship Select ($5M to $25M last time I checked).

I rarely call Vanguard and so it's no big loss, but in general service has been abysmal for a few years, often with a "our computer systems cannot do that" response.

I've already started the transfer process to Fidelity but haven't pulled the trigger. One of my superstitions is "don't change checkout lines at the grocery store" and so I am hesitating about making this move.

I agree with others that Vanguard could not care less if I moved to Fidelity.
Do a small partial transfer to Fidelity to see if that makes your comfortable and always do the transfer starting at the brokerage you want the funds transferred to. I would also call your local or closest Fidelity office and ask for a bonus for transferring funds. We transferred funds 6 months ago and got a bonus and while talking with them a month ago, the manager said they would give us additional bonuses for more transfers. How can you say no.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by nalor511 »

cowdogman wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:48 pm
goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.
Me too (well over 30 years), EXCEPT my Flagship rep disappeared from my Vanguard home screen a few weeks ago. No notice, no replacement. We are Flagship Select ($5M to $25M last time I checked).

I rarely call Vanguard and so it's no big loss, but in general service has been abysmal for a few years, often with a "our computer systems cannot do that" response.

I've already started the transfer process to Fidelity but haven't pulled the trigger. One of my superstitions is "don't change checkout lines at the grocery store" and so I am hesitating about making this move.

I agree with others that Vanguard could not care less if I moved to Fidelity.
We split VG between Schwab And Fidelity, happy with both, bonus from both, no regrets
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by ronin »

nalor511 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:05 pm
cowdogman wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:48 pm
goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.
Me too (well over 30 years), EXCEPT my Flagship rep disappeared from my Vanguard home screen a few weeks ago. No notice, no replacement. We are Flagship Select ($5M to $25M last time I checked).

I rarely call Vanguard and so it's no big loss, but in general service has been abysmal for a few years, often with a "our computer systems cannot do that" response.

I've already started the transfer process to Fidelity but haven't pulled the trigger. One of my superstitions is "don't change checkout lines at the grocery store" and so I am hesitating about making this move.

I agree with others that Vanguard could not care less if I moved to Fidelity.
We split VG between Schwab And Fidelity, happy with both, bonus from both, no regrets
Curious why you split between Fidelity and Schwab instead of picking one of them? I too am considering a move from Vanguard to one of those two. Or, should I consider this an “and” instead of an “or?”
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by fds2 »

criticalmass wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:32 am Flagship customer here. Vanguard spontaneously created a new subaccount, then transferred one mutual fund to it. Then they locked me out of all accounts completely.

The first call to Vanguard customer service was only a 30 minute wait to talk to a person. They asked the same basic info I had entered to the automated phone system at the beginning of the call, then were unable to help. Another 10+ minute hold, then attempted to transfer the call....no go.

The second call to Vanguard resulted in just a 12 minute hold time, before the next rep started to look at my account and put me on "hold" by ending the call. Maybe he will call back someday. I'm sure they are busy trying....

The third call to customer service was worse, and after a lengthy hold the next rep was unable to answer my questions or help, including a second hold and wait for a licensed representative who eventually came in the line. Two hours and multiple calls, with no answers or resolution.

Fidelity customer service is many orders of magnitude better than the new Vanguard customer service capability. Not sure what is going on in Malvern, but signs point to a major tech and service meltdown is unfolding.
Concur with this - i was trying to do a wire transfer (significant amount - for me anyway), and was on hold for over 50 minutes until i had to leave for an upcoming commitment. When you email them - they respond more than 24 hours later - and specifically mention that they cannot call you to execute the wire transfer. Very frustrating - this has deteriorated significantly in the last 5 years.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by criticalmass »

cowdogman wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:48 pm
goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.
Me too (well over 30 years), EXCEPT my Flagship rep disappeared from my Vanguard home screen a few weeks ago. No notice, no replacement. We are Flagship Select ($5M to $25M last time I checked).

I rarely call Vanguard and so it's no big loss, but in general service has been abysmal for a few years, often with a "our computer systems cannot do that" response.

I've already started the transfer process to Fidelity but haven't pulled the trigger. One of my superstitions is "don't change checkout lines at the grocery store" and so I am hesitating about making this move.

I agree with others that Vanguard could not care less if I moved to Fidelity.
I still have a named Flagship representative, who changes about every two years as they get promoted.
However, it does not matter. When you call Vanguard you get the first person who can take your call after the nominal 30-120 minute hold. Then if you need someone who can discuss money, you need to be transferred to a registered representative. It is unlikely to be the same Flagship representative whoi is listed on your statement.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by nalor511 »

ronin wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:34 pm
nalor511 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:05 pm
cowdogman wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:48 pm
goshenBogle wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am I have been with Vanguard over 30 years. Never had an issue with their customer service. I can make appointments online and speak to my rep any time I want. When I have detailed questions, I have no trouble finding a qualified person to speak to.
Me too (well over 30 years), EXCEPT my Flagship rep disappeared from my Vanguard home screen a few weeks ago. No notice, no replacement. We are Flagship Select ($5M to $25M last time I checked).

I rarely call Vanguard and so it's no big loss, but in general service has been abysmal for a few years, often with a "our computer systems cannot do that" response.

I've already started the transfer process to Fidelity but haven't pulled the trigger. One of my superstitions is "don't change checkout lines at the grocery store" and so I am hesitating about making this move.

I agree with others that Vanguard could not care less if I moved to Fidelity.
We split VG between Schwab And Fidelity, happy with both, bonus from both, no regrets
Curious why you split between Fidelity and Schwab instead of picking one of them? I too am considering a move from Vanguard to one of those two. Or, should I consider this an “and” instead of an “or?”
I wanted to try them both, and I wanted both bonuses (the way they were structured I got significantly more by splitting providers). Those issues aside, either is fine. I slightly prefer Fidelity, but Schwab is more flexible if your requirements color slightly outside the lines. They really worked hard for my business.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Tubes »

As mentioned earlier, a few weeks ago I called VG for some IRA rollover instructions. My wait was a few seconds and they got me the correct info.

Since then, news of some external events that may effect certain rollover scenarios is hitting mainline news. I suspect this is resulting in higher call volume. People always think of things like rollovers and roth conversions in the last months of the year, so volume picks up no matter what.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Mel Lindauer »

I called yesterday to do a 99% tax withholding on an RMD withdrawal (can't do that online) and got though quickly and the transaction was handled promptly and efficiently.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by sport »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:00 pm I called yesterday to do a 99% tax withholding on an RMD withdrawal (can't do that online) and got though quickly and the transaction was handled promptly and efficiently.
Mel,
What is the tax withholding limit online at Vanguard?
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Mel Lindauer »

sport wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:10 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:00 pm I called yesterday to do a 99% tax withholding on an RMD withdrawal (can't do that online) and got though quickly and the transaction was handled promptly and efficiently.
Mel,
What is the tax withholding limit online at Vanguard?
There doesn't seem to be any way to withhold 100% (or their limit of 99%) online. In fact, I couldn't see anywhere to state the amount or percentage you wanted withheld online.

Seems like it should be a simple online thing - I want to pay XX,XXX in taxes so I want to withdraw XX, XXX and have 100% go to taxes. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by prd1982 »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:50 pm
sport wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:10 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:00 pm I called yesterday to do a 99% tax withholding on an RMD withdrawal (can't do that online) and got though quickly and the transaction was handled promptly and efficiently.
Mel,
What is the tax withholding limit online at Vanguard?
There doesn't seem to be any way to withhold 100% (or their limit of 99%) online. In fact, I couldn't see anywhere to state the amount or percentage you wanted withheld online.

Seems like it should be a simple online thing - I want to pay XX,XXX in taxes so I want to withdraw XX, XXX and have 100% go to taxes. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
I just took my RMD Tues, and it allowed me to specify a percentage for fed withholding. It had to be at least 10%. I didn’t try to see the max % allowed.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by sport »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:50 pm
sport wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:10 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:00 pm I called yesterday to do a 99% tax withholding on an RMD withdrawal (can't do that online) and got though quickly and the transaction was handled promptly and efficiently.
Mel,
What is the tax withholding limit online at Vanguard?
There doesn't seem to be any way to withhold 100% (or their limit of 99%) online. In fact, I couldn't see anywhere to state the amount or percentage you wanted withheld online.

Seems like it should be a simple online thing - I want to pay XX,XXX in taxes so I want to withdraw XX, XXX and have 100% go to taxes. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
In past years, I was able to specify the percentage to be withheld on line. So, when I wanted a specific dollar amount, I had to choose a percentage that came the closest to that number.
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Re: Vanguard vs. Fidelity [Customer Service Reputation]

Post by Mel Lindauer »

sport wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:01 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:50 pm
sport wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:10 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:00 pm I called yesterday to do a 99% tax withholding on an RMD withdrawal (can't do that online) and got though quickly and the transaction was handled promptly and efficiently.
Mel,
What is the tax withholding limit online at Vanguard?
There doesn't seem to be any way to withhold 100% (or their limit of 99%) online. In fact, I couldn't see anywhere to state the amount or percentage you wanted withheld online.

Seems like it should be a simple online thing - I want to pay XX,XXX in taxes so I want to withdraw XX, XXX and have 100% go to taxes. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
In past years, I was able to specify the percentage to be withheld on line. So, when I wanted a specific dollar amount, I had to choose a percentage that came the closest to that number.
It wasn't too many years ago where you could simply take a withdrawal and have 100% go to taxes. Why they changed it to 99% and made it more complicated makes absolutely no sense to me.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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