The Boglehead Way of Employment

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Fat-Tailed Contagion
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The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Fat-Tailed Contagion »

Hi Bogleheads,

I am trying to assess what your experience and wisdom is on the best way of the employment path during your lifetime.

That is, if you had to pass your highest wisdom to a child or grandchild on the employment path, what would it be ?

What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.

Thank you for any thoughts on your perspective, Fatty
“The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists.” | ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor (75/25 - 50/50 - 25/75)
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by dziuniek »

I'm currently 30 years old but I vote health care fields. Sure, more money can be made elsewhere, but I think job security and more than decent salaries in health care should be considered. Maybe it's a short term view, but compare inflation to health care inflation.... or just look at VHT. Haha
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stemikger
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by stemikger »

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:Hi Bogleheads,

I am trying to assess what your experience and wisdom is on the best way of the employment path during your lifetime.

That is, if you had to pass your highest wisdom to a child or grandchild on the employment path, what would it be ?

What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.

Thank you for any thoughts on your perspective, Fatty
I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
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obgyn65
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by obgyn65 »

My vote is healthcare. There is nothing like it.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by amitb00 »

I agree that health care - dentist/surgeons/physicians and other jobs like nursing etc are great. They pay well, are recesson proof and can't be off shored. One problem in US now is that companies are looking into cost cutting by off shoring to India and other low cost places. So if you are evaluating a job, please explore if it can be off shored. If it can be, then most likely in next 15 years it will be. So it is not advisable to choose that as a career. Exceptions are always there.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by SouthernCPA »

Orthodontists seem to have the best combination of income to work life balance of any profession I've seen. But I would follow the advice above me and go for something you enjoy. Money is just money at the end of the day and chasing it is a terrible way to live your life.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Geneyus »

One of the happiest guys I know is about 40 years old. He has been cutting yards for the past 10 years I've known him, and I thought it was kinda sad he was cutting yards in his 30's. He has slowly hired other guys to work with him as he has gone from 40 yards to 100+ and some businesses. Now, he simply maintains the equipment, does the office work, and makes the daily schedule for the teams. He doesn't mow anymore, and he owns two houses in two states and a team of trucks. I think he is so successful because he has put his heart and soul into it for as long as I can remember instead of chasing salaries and job-hopping. Every once in a while, he will take his teams out for a steak dinner or take pictures of edging or trimmed bushes to brag on his guys. I enjoy keeping up with him online because he's so happy.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by stoptothink »

stemikger wrote:I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
Good luck to your daughter, and money certainly isn't everything, but more than likely she'll struggle with money her entire life if she intends to stay in social work. I did that too, for nearly a decade, before I realized that the warm and fuzzies don't mean a whole lot when I can barely support my own family (and I was a director in a large non-profit). I still get the same satisfaction now, and my future outside of work (ie. early financial independence, having the choice to work) is much brighter. My wife literally had the exact same experience, we both got out of social work within months of each other last year, and are so much happier though we don't feel like these new industries are "our calling".

Work is a means to an end, it isn't called "happy fun time" for a reason. I can't make any suggestions as far as which field to go into as the industry I am in doesn't pay great either (although I made a lateral move out of social work and got an immediate 30% raise, not including bonuses and far better raise/upward mobility structure), but my #1 piece of advice is to find a mentor (or three). Network, meet people, and really get to know people who have become successful in your chosen field.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by RadAudit »

I find it difficult to give advice about which career an individual should pursue.

If you say follow your heart, you are somewhat obligated to point out where that path may lead - if you accept that industry's pay range. Some jobs in the health care field don't pay all that well. So, if you want to go that way, you are going to have to be satisfied with the lifestyle that occupation can support. Same thing can be said for teachers in some right to work states.

So, yes follow your heart but don't complain about where the path leads. And somewhere down that path don't be envious of others who chose a different path.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by OutInThirteen »

Take on more responsibility, including volunteering for tough assignments, in order to keep things interesting and advance up the ranks (technical or managerial or both). Don't be afraid to change jobs often if needed, especially if a change would add experience in complementary areas of expertise. I was good in a lot of areas, but not great in any - jack of all trades. I think this is extremely important in today's world - you need to be highly flexible and adaptable.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by ffstretch »

stemikger wrote:
Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:Hi Bogleheads,

I am trying to assess what your experience and wisdom is on the best way of the employment path during your lifetime.

That is, if you had to pass your highest wisdom to a child or grandchild on the employment path, what would it be ?

What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.

Thank you for any thoughts on your perspective, Fatty
I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
I was one of the lucky ones who found out early what got me out of bed to go to work wasn't just money but a sense of purpose. That's what I ask my kids. Do you want to have an impact on people's lives? Not everyone does because there are different personalities/values out there. But many do. As mentioned already the healthcare system will provide good jobs for many for years and years to come. The good news is that many of those jobs aren't just MD or RN but technicians, PA, respiratory therapists, etc.

I've read somewhere that the list of what motivates workers puts money lower as compared to things like autonomy, being recognized for good work, job satisfaction, making a difference, opinion being counted, you get the idea.

It's important to know oneself and one's values, strengths and weaknesses when searching for a career. If you don't have this they will assuredly present themselves over time. When you are young this can be difficult.

We all walk thru our employer's door for the money. It's what we do after we step inside that makes us different. To that point:

It sounds like your daughter has a passion and a work ethic. THAT will do more for her moving forward than almost anything.

(I'm not touting the medical field or public service as the only options, it's just the areas that I'm most familiar with)
Regards
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by nisiprius »

I agree with Buffett.

The problem with following the money instead of following your heart is that if you follow your heart you have a good chance of liking your job, and a fari chance of making a living at it. But if you follow the money, too often, not only do you hate the job, but you don't actually get the money.

It can be a sucker's game. You hear that "the nation needs X's, there is a shortage of X," you spend four years preparing to be an X and a lot of other people do, too, and when you graduate, wonder of wonders, instead of a shortage of X there is a gut of X.

If you follow your heart and have a little flexibility and willingness to compromise, there's a decent chance you can make a living at it.
Last edited by nisiprius on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by joe8d »

Do what ever you can to get a Public Sector job.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Yooper »

You HAVE to work. Whether you love it or loathe it. Work after all, is something that is SO bad that the only way it gets done is to pay someone to do it.

If you love it, well you'll find it - and the price will be right. If you don't love it, and only do it for the money you're paid to do it, then find a federal/state/local job with a pension, put in your time (diligently saving while you do), and then take your retirement at the earliest possible time and do what you've always wanted to do.

That's what I'd say.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by warowits »

The Boglehead way? I think at its heart the Boglehead philosophy is about quality of life. Living below your means and saving works at nearly any income level. You wouldn't want to work at a high income job you hate so you can retire a few years early, at the expense of 30 years of misery. Better to work at something you enjoy a little (its still work, lets not get too carried away).
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Atilla »

My dad was a college professor who started out his work life with no ambition to go to college working construction. I ended up as a salesman, which I never dreamed of, expected or thought I would be any good at or make any money whatsoever. We both will end up making decent money in very long term stable employment by the time it's all said and done.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Fallible »

Finding the right career is about finding oneself. It takes longer for some than for others, and even if the right career is found, there may be another down the road as you continue to get to know yourself and discover more things you can do and love to do. There may be wrong turns, wrong jobs, but you'll learn more about yourself each time, bringing you closer to that right career. The search itself is a valuable learning experience, with everything you do being a clue to what you were meant to do.

That is general advice, but does roughly describe how, after several jobs around the U.S. and a year of living and traveling abroad, I found a first career at 25 and, many years later, a second.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by warner25 »

I chose my current career as a 17 year-old high school kid, when money mattered little to me, in order to serve high ideals and experience adventure. More than a decade later, it's funny to think back on that. Today (with wife and child) I'm much more pragmatic than idealistic, and I no longer care for the adventure. But it turns out that the money is pretty good, and now money matters a great deal to me, so I feel somewhat stuck with a career that used to be "my passion" because I'm afraid to make the leap, financially, to something else.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the takeaway is from my experience. Maybe pursuing your passion is folly because your desires will change(?). Or maybe doing what you love everyday, for pay, under pressure, will ruin your passion, so you should just go for money in the first place(?). Or maybe you should pursue passion but anticipate that your passions will change, keep your options open (through savings, education, networking, etc.), and just plan on changing careers a couple times(?).
Last edited by warner25 on Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by randomguy »

obgyn65 wrote:My vote is healthcare. There is nothing like it.
Last I checked, not much of the money in healthcare goes to most of the employees. Doctors, Nurses, aids,... have not seen huge salary increases. The expenditures have gone elsewhere (buildings, fancy equipment, insurance overhead,...).

It is easy to look backwards (those public service pensions look sweet to risk adverse people) but it is hard to predict the next 40 years (i.e. are they about to get the same cram down that happened to private sectors).

Personally I would suggest finding something you are good at and enjoy and let the rest of the details work themselves out. If you aren't a computer person, trying to be one is a losers game. If you aren't a people person, trying to be a good salesman is likely to also be a loser game.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by market timer »

I don't think there are any standard Boglehead recommendations on employment. Most of the agreement is on managing personal finances.

Specific career recommendations would really depend on the person. DW and I found careers we enjoy by focusing on academics, so we will encourage that in our son. I don't just mean asking him to do his homework, but things like having him spend summers working on academic research projects at a university before going to college.

Beyond that, I would recommend getting a strong background in disciplines like math, philosophy, and computer science, which can help us approach any problem. This was very useful advice I actually received from a Nobel Prize winning physicist in college. He suggested that I major in math for this reason, so I did. A strong background in a subject like math allows one to adapt to new problems or switch fields quickly.

In my own case, I've consistently underestimated how dynamic is the job landscape. For example, I decided to look for work in the finance industry in 2007. Compensation looked great, what could go wrong? Imagine those who decided to get a petroleum engineering degree in the past several years. I also underestimated how dynamic was my own motivation. What I desired at age 25 is not what I desired at age 35. It is very difficult to anticipate these types of changes.

Around the time I became a dad, I often talked to friends in finance about the no man's land where we suddenly found ourselves. The work/life balance was no longer attractive, compensation had failed to soar to the moon, the city was too expensive for a family, and our chief concern was making a graceful exit. This change took me by surprise, and I would have had a different perspective and strategy earlier if I'd been aware of this change. Would have focused more on networking, for example.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by saltycaper »

Gotta go where your talents and natural inclinations take you, unless you think you'll get a kick out of swimming up river your whole life. But, if even then you still must choose between following the money or following your passion, consider yourself fortunate. Plenty of people have not succeeded in either endeavor.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by AlohaJoe »

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:Hi Bogleheads,

I am trying to assess what your experience and wisdom is on the best way of the employment path during your lifetime.

That is, if you had to pass your highest wisdom to a child or grandchild on the employment path, what would it be ?

What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.

Thank you for any thoughts on your perspective, Fatty
I agree with others that there isn't a "boglehead way" anymore than there is a boglehead way of cooking or a boglehead way of gardening.

But it is still an interesting question so I'll chime in with my two cents:

"Follow Your Passion" is bad advice and I would never give it to anyone. (Cal Newport and Ben Horowitz have said similar things, so I'm really just regurgitating what they've said before me more eloquently.)

- You may not have a passion. I've had dozens of people report to me over the years and I've tons of career conversations with them and usually I end up asking, "What do you WANT to do?" and very few of them were able to give me any kind of answer.
- People often confuse passion with excitement. It's like trying to explain to a 12-year old was love is like when they've never been in love.
- Passions are hard to prioritise. What if you are passionate about cooking AND literature. Which one do you follow?
- Passions change. At one point in time, a long time ago, I was passionate about Japanese anime.
- You may not be good at it. Reality TV is full of people who are passionate about something but aren't good enough at it.

Most people become passionate about what they are good at. That's how people can become passionate about all kinds of things they didn't even know existed when they were 16 years old, whether it is pipe fittings or international tax treaties.

I would instead tell them to pursue strategies to become "anti-fragile":

- Cultivate a growth mindset c.f. Carol Dweck's research
- Follow Richard Wiseman's four basic principles of how lucky people generate their own good fortune, the two most relevant of which are:
1. Create self-fulfilling prophesies via positive expectations
2. Adopt a resilient attitude that transforms bad luck into good luck
- Build a network. You don't have to go to Keith Ferrazzi ("Never Eat Lunch Alone") levels but having a network inside your company, inside your industry, wherever means you have more options. And "having a network" is just another way of saying "having friends".
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by stemikger »

stoptothink wrote:
stemikger wrote:I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
Good luck to your daughter, and money certainly isn't everything, but more than likely she'll struggle with money her entire life if she intends to stay in social work. I did that too, for nearly a decade, before I realized that the warm and fuzzies don't mean a whole lot when I can barely support my own family (and I was a director in a large non-profit). I still get the same satisfaction now, and my future outside of work (ie. early financial independence, having the choice to work) is much brighter. My wife literally had the exact same experience, we both got out of social work within months of each other last year, and are so much happier though we don't feel like these new industries are "our calling".

Work is a means to an end, it isn't called "happy fun time" for a reason. I can't make any suggestions as far as which field to go into as the industry I am in doesn't pay great either (although I made a lateral move out of social work and got an immediate 30% raise, not including bonuses and far better raise/upward mobility structure), but my #1 piece of advice is to find a mentor (or three). Network, meet people, and really get to know people who have become successful in your chosen field.
Thanks. We talked about that and she knows she is entering a low paying field. Do you mind me asking what she would be starting out with salary wise. We live in Staten Island, New York, so the New York area is where she would be working. I know a Social Worker (she has been doing it around 30 years) who is a single mother and raised 3 kids on her own, so I'm thinking it can't be that bad. I'm hoping with an MSW and other accreditation, she will hopefully start around $30K - $40K range.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by basspond »

Pick something that aligns with your passion and remember that almost always there will be times when the pasture appears to be greener on the other side of the fence.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by carolinaman »

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:Hi Bogleheads,

I am trying to assess what your experience and wisdom is on the best way of the employment path during your lifetime.

That is, if you had to pass your highest wisdom to a child or grandchild on the employment path, what would it be ?

What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.

Thank you for any thoughts on your perspective, Fatty
I would encourage them to find a job/profession that they enjoy and has decent compensation and opportunity for advancement. Job security is tougher in our rapidly changing world and job security is now based upon your skills, experience and marketability. Few people will remain with the same employer for their entire career. The below Alvin Toffler quote seems to be key to the modern worker who needs to be adaptable to the changes in their work, which will occur multiple times in their career:

“The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.” - Alvin Toffler, writer and futurist, in "Future Shock" (1970).

I do not think it is enough for most people to just have technical skills. Soft skills like attitude, interpersonal skills, teamwork and integrity are very important and sometimes underappreciated for their value to an organization.

I had a 44 year career in IT that started in 1966. The first 12 years I was primarily a software engineer and the last 32 I was in different IT management roles. I enjoyed most of it and feel blessed to have been in such a fast changing and dynamic field. I am always surprised at how many people seem to hate their work. I enjoyed every job that I had. Every job had its bad parts but I learned how to deal with them and to focus on the good parts. IMO, that is an important part of job satisfaction. The one thing we can always control is how we respond to work, colleagues, customers, bosses, etc.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by swl »

Start promoting the importance of education and hard work early on. Time in the "market" and all that. If you want your children to have a high-paying technical job down the line, understand that their future competition will have been training for it since age six.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by overhaul »

For most people work eventually becomes work no matter how passionate you are in the beginning. Dont get blinded by the "sexy", exciting choice.

Life is easier when you have more money and more difficult when you have less. Pick a career that will likely result in an income in the upper half and preferably upper quartile of the population. More money means more flexibility with your life and your career.

Consider how your choice of employment will affect where you can live. Some career choices may virtually force you to live in certain sized communities or geographic locations. Other careers give you almost absolute flexibility in regards to where you can settle. Some careers will expect that if you want to move up then you move out. Other careers reward staying put. I have known a number of individuals who actually loved their job but hated where it forced them to live.

Do not underestimate how the impact of the stress and lifestyle of your job will affect you over time. Things like being up all night on call do not seem like a big deal when you are young but there is no question they become more difficult and more unpleasant as you age. Burnout is real and consider that when looking at careers.
Last edited by overhaul on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by jfave33 »

Do what you love and if not do what you can.

What is more important is to spend less than you earn and save what you can. But make sure you experience all life has to offer especially when you are young. Life is not all about work. Learn quickly that time is worth more than money but only if you have enough of both!
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Tamarind »

Being a Boglehead requires the self-understanding to judge your need, ability, and willingness to take risk. I think the same applies to employment.

Not everyone has a strong calling or work passion. That's ok, there are other rewards to work, including pay, skill development, the building of professional relationships and friendships, and work/life balance. If a career gives you at least two of those, especially if it gives you the one you find most rewarding, I'd call it a win.

For example, I did not have any kind of calling or employable passionate interest to direct me when I came out of college. I wanted two things: to keep learning and building expertise continually and to work with people like me (i.e technically and practically inclined problem solvers who enjoy nerd culture). I had one marketable skill (and it wasn't related to my degree): grasping and understanding software systems. I also had and have a big weakness: short attention span.

For me, working for start-ups has been a fantastic career. The money is not always good, especially at first. Benefits are always terrible until a company has been around for a while. The work/life balance can be terrible, but the people are just who I want to be around. I turned my skill into a career that's flexible enough that I can jump from industry to industry and always be learning something new. That helps me keep ahead of boredom, which is good because I'm a terrible employee when bored.

This would be an AWFUL career match for most of the people I know...better, smarter people, who are more emotionally intelligent, or more focused, or terrible with computers, or better with their hands, or who crave the security of working for the same place for decades. For me it is good. Who knows if I will still be doing this in 10 years? My mom was a mechanical engineer...now works in IT. My dad was a biochemist...then a stay-at-home dad. Hmmm...might be genetic.

If I were passing this on to a kid I would say:
"Know yourself, be flexible in the face of inevitable change in both yourself and your environment, and do something that gets you what you need."
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by AtlasShrugged? »

Fatty....I thought about your question. I will try to answer in order.

'What' job is ultimately unimportant; that you truly enjoy it is what matters. The best way I can express it: Find a job where it does not feel like a job.
Salary - I have told my sons, when you really enjoy your work, the money will follow.
Benefits - focus on a) healthcare, and b) retirement.
Job Security - That is becoming a quaint anachronism. There is none.

Some other thoughts. The most important company you will ever work for is You, Inc. This means you need to continually re-invest in yourself, just like companies do. It does not have to be expensive (although it can be). For me, a public library card is the foundation of that continual re-investment. I learned much more from the public library than I ever did in college and graduate school. That is particularly true in the area of finance and investing.

Finally - Never, ever compromise your personal honor and integrity. Of all the things you own, this is most important. And believe me, there are plenty of work situations where compromising your personal honor and integrity is the easier path. Resist that temptation at all cost.
“If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn.”
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Cruiser
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Cruiser »

If you happen to already be in a field/company that is not where you want to be, put in writing a plan for how you will get from where you are to where you want to be.

I spent half a decade at a company that was causing me high levels of stress and miserableness, telling myself every year that 'this' was the year I'd get out and find a better fit. I eventually got out and got into a much better position, but it took me much longer than I would have liked because I lacked a plan for doing so.

Once you recognize you aren't where you want to be, put in writing a plan for how you will get to where you want to be. Otherwise you'll wake up years from now and you're still in the same position.
stoptothink
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by stoptothink »

stemikger wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
stemikger wrote:I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
Good luck to your daughter, and money certainly isn't everything, but more than likely she'll struggle with money her entire life if she intends to stay in social work. I did that too, for nearly a decade, before I realized that the warm and fuzzies don't mean a whole lot when I can barely support my own family (and I was a director in a large non-profit). I still get the same satisfaction now, and my future outside of work (ie. early financial independence, having the choice to work) is much brighter. My wife literally had the exact same experience, we both got out of social work within months of each other last year, and are so much happier though we don't feel like these new industries are "our calling".

Work is a means to an end, it isn't called "happy fun time" for a reason. I can't make any suggestions as far as which field to go into as the industry I am in doesn't pay great either (although I made a lateral move out of social work and got an immediate 30% raise, not including bonuses and far better raise/upward mobility structure), but my #1 piece of advice is to find a mentor (or three). Network, meet people, and really get to know people who have become successful in your chosen field.
Thanks. We talked about that and she knows she is entering a low paying field. Do you mind me asking what she would be starting out with salary wise. We live in Staten Island, New York, so the New York area is where she would be working. I know a Social Worker (she has been doing it around 30 years) who is a single mother and raised 3 kids on her own, so I'm thinking it can't be that bad. I'm hoping with an MSW and other accreditation, she will hopefully start around $30K - $40K range.
I can only tell you what I, my wife, and our employees were making. I am sure compensation is much different here in Utah than it is in NYC. Both my wife and I were directors, I in a much larger organization (I oversaw a program with ~100 total employees, she had about 15 direct reports). I was making ~$75k with literally zero upward mobility and 1.5% total raise in 4yrs (and that is only because I received highest honors on my annual review from our CEO 2yrs in a row). My wife was earning <$50k. I had people on my staff with MSWs and experience making less than first year public school teachers, so <$40k/yr, and newer employers with only undergrad degrees were making <$30k. We are talking full-time, salaried employees. Although we both enjoyed the work, eventually we had too many outside offers that were too good from a compensation standpoint to turn down. I made a lateral move into a megacorp and received an immediate ~30% raise and way better benefits and upward mobility. My wife took what would appear to be a serious demotion and literally doubled her salary, not to mention gained a ton of flexibility and significantly decreased work time and stress.
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kellyfj
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by kellyfj »

All of those suggesting healthcare are ignoring two things

1) Healthcare cost increases have become unsustainable (if they weren't already)
2) Someone will invent or legislate something to reduce those costs

Healthcare is long overdue for a complete overhaul with a massive injection of technology.
And if that doesn't happen, then the Government will have no choice but to introduce a "fix" (and we know how those go).

Sorry - the future is Software Technology and Robots :-)
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Bustoff
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by Bustoff »

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote: What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.
Government employment with pension and civil service protection.
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stemikger
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by stemikger »

stoptothink wrote:
stemikger wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
stemikger wrote:I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
Good luck to your daughter, and money certainly isn't everything, but more than likely she'll struggle with money her entire life if she intends to stay in social work. I did that too, for nearly a decade, before I realized that the warm and fuzzies don't mean a whole lot when I can barely support my own family (and I was a director in a large non-profit). I still get the same satisfaction now, and my future outside of work (ie. early financial independence, having the choice to work) is much brighter. My wife literally had the exact same experience, we both got out of social work within months of each other last year, and are so much happier though we don't feel like these new industries are "our calling".

Work is a means to an end, it isn't called "happy fun time" for a reason. I can't make any suggestions as far as which field to go into as the industry I am in doesn't pay great either (although I made a lateral move out of social work and got an immediate 30% raise, not including bonuses and far better raise/upward mobility structure), but my #1 piece of advice is to find a mentor (or three). Network, meet people, and really get to know people who have become successful in your chosen field.
Thanks. We talked about that and she knows she is entering a low paying field. Do you mind me asking what she would be starting out with salary wise. We live in Staten Island, New York, so the New York area is where she would be working. I know a Social Worker (she has been doing it around 30 years) who is a single mother and raised 3 kids on her own, so I'm thinking it can't be that bad. I'm hoping with an MSW and other accreditation, she will hopefully start around $30K - $40K range.
I can only tell you what I, my wife, and our employees were making. I am sure compensation is much different here in Utah than it is in NYC. Both my wife and I were directors, I in a much larger organization (I oversaw a program with ~100 total employees, she had about 15 direct reports). I was making ~$75k with literally zero upward mobility and 1.5% total raise in 4yrs (and that is only because I received highest honors on my annual review from our CEO 2yrs in a row). My wife was earning <$50k. I had people on my staff with MSWs and experience making less than first year public school teachers, so <$40k/yr, and newer employers with only undergrad degrees were making <$30k. We are talking full-time, salaried employees. Although we both enjoyed the work, eventually we had too many outside offers that were too good from a compensation standpoint to turn down. I made a lateral move into a megacorp and received an immediate ~30% raise and way better benefits and upward mobility. My wife took what would appear to be a serious demotion and literally doubled her salary, not to mention gained a ton of flexibility and significantly decreased work time and stress.

Thanks for the info!! :beer
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!
randomguy
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by randomguy »

stoptothink wrote: I can only tell you what I, my wife, and our employees were making. I am sure compensation is much different here in Utah than it is in NYC. Both my wife and I were directors, I in a much larger organization (I oversaw a program with ~100 total employees, she had about 15 direct reports). I was making ~$75k with literally zero upward mobility and 1.5% total raise in 4yrs (and that is only because I received highest honors on my annual review from our CEO 2yrs in a row). My wife was earning <$50k. I had people on my staff with MSWs and experience making less than first year public school teachers, so <$40k/yr, and newer employers with only undergrad degrees were making <$30k. We are talking full-time, salaried employees. Although we both enjoyed the work, eventually we had too many outside offers that were too good from a compensation standpoint to turn down. I made a lateral move into a megacorp and received an immediate ~30% raise and way better benefits and upward mobility. My wife took what would appear to be a serious demotion and literally doubled her salary, not to mention gained a ton of flexibility and significantly decreased work time and stress.
I have no problem with going for more money, but you do realize that 75k in Utah is a long, long way from struggling (i.e. it is a above average middle class income)? As always income is about expectations. If you are a teacher and expect to make a middle class income (40k or so), you will be happy with your compensation in most areas of the country. If you expect upper middle class compensation (100k) you will complain about low pay. Living a 100k lifestyle on 75k of income is painful. Living a 50k lifestyle on 75k of income is cushy
cherijoh
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by cherijoh »

stemikger wrote:
Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:Hi Bogleheads,

I am trying to assess what your experience and wisdom is on the best way of the employment path during your lifetime.

That is, if you had to pass your highest wisdom to a child or grandchild on the employment path, what would it be ?

What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.

Thank you for any thoughts on your perspective, Fatty
I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
I agree to a large extent, but I think some young people choose their major without any thought for which types of jobs that degree would qualify them. They choose a major instead because they like a subject. I would be leery of any degree where most of the graduates are doing something else or for which you can only get employment in your field with a PhD. A lot of liberal arts and some social sciences degrees come to mind. If the majority of graduates in your field end up teaching or working retail and you have no interest in either, then it is time to consider other majors IMO.

I would strongly recommend that students do some informational interviews with people in that field to find out what is involved with particular jobs on a day-to-day basis. Friends of the students' parents or older family members of the student's friends make good candidates for informational interviews. This website lists some great sample questions for informational interviews.
btenny
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by btenny »

This is a very hard question. Many people are meant to lead Boglehead lives, some are not. Some are meant for greatness and some are meant for ordinary things. Here is what I have learned in 68 years about how to achieve a happy and stable life.

1. You have to work to make money so pick a career field you like. You should do this early in life if possible. If not go exploring.

2. Train for your field. Get an education to know the issues in you field. Get college degrees in you field. Get state and US licenses in you field. Join clubs and organizations in your field and participate in them. Network with the older guys and gals in your field early. See how they view their lives and work and how they make money. See what areas they pursue.

3. Pick a career field that pays at least OK and has good long term prospects. Some fields like professional athletics or movie making can be great careers if you can get in or are one of the chosen few but most people starve in these fields. Likewise engineering pays OK to good and makes a stable career but you have to like it and be good at math. Similarly finance pays good but it is not for everyone. You may love English literature but how does it pay? You get the idea. Investigate. Talk to your parents and guidance counselors. Talk to successful people. Go to the library. Not Google.

4. Choose carefully the companies/organizations you work for. Good company culture is a must. Good long term prospects are a must. There are tons of bad companies and bosses. BUT there are also lots of great companies and bosses. Some companies cherish their employees and pay OK to well and try to help their people succeed. These companies have older loyal employees and bosses who like each other. Other companies drive their people and use them up and throw them out as company culture. Other companies just have lots of terrible bosses. The pay may be great at these bad companies but who cares if you hate your boss and half your co-workers. Other just pay poorly and tell you to live with it. Run away for these bad places. Life is short.

5. Find a company that pays you long term for your effort and treats their senior employees well. Buy or own a piece of the company. Get paid profit sharing or stock or a annual bonus. Get 401K matching money. Good companies offer these things to their employees in good fields. Bad companies do not.

6. If you get into a good company stay there and help it succeed. Buy some company stock or ask for options. Be part of the companies success. Hire your friends. Live a good life. Enjoy. Don't job hop every few years for a few extra $$ to some unknown company with "potential" that might be much worse . Know your self and understand that good jobs and good companies are hard to find.

Good Luck.
horste
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by horste »

stemikger wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
stemikger wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
stemikger wrote:I think Buffett gives the best advice to young people when it comes to this. He has often said, when you come out of college don't take a job that you think would look good on your resume, that is like saving sex for old age. Take the job you would do for free. Find something that really lights your fire and it will never feel like work. It is not easy to do, but if you find it that would be your answer.

He has never met someone at the end of their career that didn't regret doing what they loved even if they did not make a big salary. However, he has met many individuals at the end of their career that regretted working just for the money.

I wish I took that advice when I was younger. The good news is my daughter seems to be taking my advice and is currently in a MSW program and loves her unpaid internship so much she is working during the break. That makes me extremely happy.

Good Luck, I hope you find your passion.
Good luck to your daughter, and money certainly isn't everything, but more than likely she'll struggle with money her entire life if she intends to stay in social work. I did that too, for nearly a decade, before I realized that the warm and fuzzies don't mean a whole lot when I can barely support my own family (and I was a director in a large non-profit). I still get the same satisfaction now, and my future outside of work (ie. early financial independence, having the choice to work) is much brighter. My wife literally had the exact same experience, we both got out of social work within months of each other last year, and are so much happier though we don't feel like these new industries are "our calling".

Work is a means to an end, it isn't called "happy fun time" for a reason. I can't make any suggestions as far as which field to go into as the industry I am in doesn't pay great either (although I made a lateral move out of social work and got an immediate 30% raise, not including bonuses and far better raise/upward mobility structure), but my #1 piece of advice is to find a mentor (or three). Network, meet people, and really get to know people who have become successful in your chosen field.
Thanks. We talked about that and she knows she is entering a low paying field. Do you mind me asking what she would be starting out with salary wise. We live in Staten Island, New York, so the New York area is where she would be working. I know a Social Worker (she has been doing it around 30 years) who is a single mother and raised 3 kids on her own, so I'm thinking it can't be that bad. I'm hoping with an MSW and other accreditation, she will hopefully start around $30K - $40K range.
I can only tell you what I, my wife, and our employees were making. I am sure compensation is much different here in Utah than it is in NYC. Both my wife and I were directors, I in a much larger organization (I oversaw a program with ~100 total employees, she had about 15 direct reports). I was making ~$75k with literally zero upward mobility and 1.5% total raise in 4yrs (and that is only because I received highest honors on my annual review from our CEO 2yrs in a row). My wife was earning <$50k. I had people on my staff with MSWs and experience making less than first year public school teachers, so <$40k/yr, and newer employers with only undergrad degrees were making <$30k. We are talking full-time, salaried employees. Although we both enjoyed the work, eventually we had too many outside offers that were too good from a compensation standpoint to turn down. I made a lateral move into a megacorp and received an immediate ~30% raise and way better benefits and upward mobility. My wife took what would appear to be a serious demotion and literally doubled her salary, not to mention gained a ton of flexibility and significantly decreased work time and stress.

Thanks for the info!! :beer
As a social worker, I would strongly encourage your daughter to explore what is available in the disability services area of social services in her local community. Feel free to PM if you have more specific questions or details about this area of social worker.

As a social worker in Minnesota, who has held various roles in the profession, there are surprisingly a wide range of salaries and career opportunities. You may have to look beyond the assumed school or hospital social work that many social workers seem drawn towards. My first job (case manager) after a bachelors level social work degree, paid mid-$30k in 2010 in a small social services agency (not a government job). That same job now starts at $42-$45k only 5 years later. With a masters of social work, this would only open up even more possibilities in a government or private agency job.

The more common paths of school social work, hospital social work, and non-profits tend to have higher demand and tighter budgets while requiring for those to acquire more education. One area of social services that I continue to see overlooked, where states spend a fair amount of money, is in disability services across the full age spectrum. The roles and positions that social workers play in the disability services field usually have decent paying job prospects and job security. As states implement the required changes to of the Olmsted vs LC supreme court decision, there continues to be an increase in need of social workers at the case manager / care coordinator level.

I do have to acknowledge that Minnesota has a large social service network from many employers (state, county, non profit, schools, hospitals, and not for profit and for profit human service agencies).

EDIT: Grammar.
Last edited by horste on Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stemikger
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by stemikger »

horste wrote:
stemikger wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
stemikger wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
Good luck to your daughter, and money certainly isn't everything, but more than likely she'll struggle with money her entire life if she intends to stay in social work. I did that too, for nearly a decade, before I realized that the warm and fuzzies don't mean a whole lot when I can barely support my own family (and I was a director in a large non-profit). I still get the same satisfaction now, and my future outside of work (ie. early financial independence, having the choice to work) is much brighter. My wife literally had the exact same experience, we both got out of social work within months of each other last year, and are so much happier though we don't feel like these new industries are "our calling".

Work is a means to an end, it isn't called "happy fun time" for a reason. I can't make any suggestions as far as which field to go into as the industry I am in doesn't pay great either (although I made a lateral move out of social work and got an immediate 30% raise, not including bonuses and far better raise/upward mobility structure), but my #1 piece of advice is to find a mentor (or three). Network, meet people, and really get to know people who have become successful in your chosen field.
Thanks. We talked about that and she knows she is entering a low paying field. Do you mind me asking what she would be starting out with salary wise. We live in Staten Island, New York, so the New York area is where she would be working. I know a Social Worker (she has been doing it around 30 years) who is a single mother and raised 3 kids on her own, so I'm thinking it can't be that bad. I'm hoping with an MSW and other accreditation, she will hopefully start around $30K - $40K range.
I can only tell you what I, my wife, and our employees were making. I am sure compensation is much different here in Utah than it is in NYC. Both my wife and I were directors, I in a much larger organization (I oversaw a program with ~100 total employees, she had about 15 direct reports). I was making ~$75k with literally zero upward mobility and 1.5% total raise in 4yrs (and that is only because I received highest honors on my annual review from our CEO 2yrs in a row). My wife was earning <$50k. I had people on my staff with MSWs and experience making less than first year public school teachers, so <$40k/yr, and newer employers with only undergrad degrees were making <$30k. We are talking full-time, salaried employees. Although we both enjoyed the work, eventually we had too many outside offers that were too good from a compensation standpoint to turn down. I made a lateral move into a megacorp and received an immediate ~30% raise and way better benefits and upward mobility. My wife took what would appear to be a serious demotion and literally doubled her salary, not to mention gained a ton of flexibility and significantly decreased work time and stress.

Thanks for the info!! :beer
As a social worker, I would strongly encourage your daughter to explore what is available in the disability services area of social services in her local community. Feel free to PM if you have more specific questions or details about this area of social worker.

As a social worker in Minnesota, who has held various roles in the profession, there are surprisingly a wide range of salaries and career opportunities. You many have to look beyond the assumed school or hospital social work that many social workers seem drawn towards. My first job (case manager) after a bachelors level social work degree, paid mid-$30k in 2010 in a small social services agency (not a government job). That same job now starts at $42-$45k only 5 years later. With a masters of social work, this would only open up even more possibilities in a government or private agency job.

The more common paths of school social work, hospital social work, and non-profits tend to have higher demand and tighter budgets while requiring for those increased education. One area of social services that I county to see overlooked where states spend a fair amount of money is in disability services across the full age spectrum. The roles and positions that social workers play in the disability services field usually have decent paying job prospects and job security. As states implement the required changes to of the Olmsted vs LC supreme court decision, there continues to be an increase in need of social workers at the case manager / care coordinator level.

I do have to acknowledge that Minnesota has a large social service network from many employers (state, county, non profit, schools, hospitals, and not for profit and for profit human service agencies).
Wow! This is a treasure trove of great advice. Thank you. It just so happens my daughter's program has a strong concentration towards disabilities. Here is a bit of the description from her program.
The purpose of the Master of Social Work (MSW) program is to educate students for advanced, urban social work practice in the community, region, and worldwide, with an emphasis on meeting the needs of people with disabilities.
Thanks for the advice and information.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!
vested1
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by vested1 »

This decade's hot career may be the next decade's black hole, and the selection of which path to take is so often decided by serendipity and chance that a well thought out choice may turn out to be the wrong one.

A better piece of advice to pass on would be to keep your options open but to stay true to your values, no matter what path is chosen. Too many allow small compromises of their ethics to grow larger over time. A reputation for honesty and outstanding accomplishment without sacrificing integrity will result in the ability to look back with pride at a lifetime of contributing something meaningful in your working career, whatever that may be.
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vitaflo
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by vitaflo »

As soon as you can, stop working for someone else and start working for yourself by either starting your own business or going independent. That of course doesn't happen over night and doesn't always guarantee riches (though many times it does), but it does bring freedom. The best thing I ever did in my career was start my own company at age 34. Hard for me to imagine going back to being anyone's employee ever again.
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William4u
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by William4u »

market timer wrote:Beyond that, I would recommend getting a strong background in disciplines like math, philosophy, and computer science, which can help us approach any problem. This was very useful advice I actually received from a Nobel Prize winning physicist in college. He suggested that I major in math for this reason, so I did. A strong background in a subject like math allows one to adapt to new problems or switch fields quickly.

In my own case, I've consistently underestimated how dynamic is the job landscape. For example, I decided to look for work in the finance industry in 2007. Compensation looked great, what could go wrong? Imagine those who decided to get a petroleum engineering degree in the past several years. I also underestimated how dynamic was my own motivation. What I desired at age 25 is not what I desired at age 35. It is very difficult to anticipate these types of changes.
+1 This is very good advice. The job market will change so dramatically in ways you cannot predict. People's motivations and desires change in ways they can never predict. In terms of schooling, market timer is correct. Majors that foster analytical problem solving allow one to adjudicated these challenges best.

As an aside, the people I knew well in college majored in everything under the sun, but they were smart and worked hard. Now that they are older and have made their careers, all (I mean each and every one) have done quite well and are very financially secure. And you'd find it nearly impossible to guess their majors based on the (quite good) jobs they got.

This is a rarefied group: all of them went to top colleges and graduated in the top 25% of their class. But their majors did not really matter. They are smart, hard working, and came from intact families. They were mentored well, and were loved and cared for as children in a stable home. The latter is more important to long term outcomes than just about anything else.
stoptothink
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by stoptothink »

randomguy wrote:
stoptothink wrote: I can only tell you what I, my wife, and our employees were making. I am sure compensation is much different here in Utah than it is in NYC. Both my wife and I were directors, I in a much larger organization (I oversaw a program with ~100 total employees, she had about 15 direct reports). I was making ~$75k with literally zero upward mobility and 1.5% total raise in 4yrs (and that is only because I received highest honors on my annual review from our CEO 2yrs in a row). My wife was earning <$50k. I had people on my staff with MSWs and experience making less than first year public school teachers, so <$40k/yr, and newer employers with only undergrad degrees were making <$30k. We are talking full-time, salaried employees. Although we both enjoyed the work, eventually we had too many outside offers that were too good from a compensation standpoint to turn down. I made a lateral move into a megacorp and received an immediate ~30% raise and way better benefits and upward mobility. My wife took what would appear to be a serious demotion and literally doubled her salary, not to mention gained a ton of flexibility and significantly decreased work time and stress.
I have no problem with going for more money, but you do realize that 75k in Utah is a long, long way from struggling (i.e. it is a above average middle class income)? As always income is about expectations. If you are a teacher and expect to make a middle class income (40k or so), you will be happy with your compensation in most areas of the country. If you expect upper middle class compensation (100k) you will complain about low pay. Living a 100k lifestyle on 75k of income is painful. Living a 50k lifestyle on 75k of income is cushy
Sure it is a long way from struggling, but I had a PhD, nearly a decade of experience, and was the 3rd highest compensated employee in an organization with nearly 300 employees. I was at the top of the food chain, with nowhere to go. I had a staff full of experienced MSWs, supporting families on $30-40k (some even less). Sure it is possible to support a family, our entire household expenses are ~$40k/yr (with 3/4 of that being mortgage and childcare), but it is literally the lowest compensating field you can possibly go into. The warm and fuzzies, the passion, those things faded pretty fast and it just became a job; especially when you realize your buddy with an undergrad degree and zero experience is making more, working less and with almost no responsibility. There is a balance between enjoying what you do and doing what will make you the most financially successful; most of the people I knew in social work started because they wanted to help people, but they became flat out miserable really fast.
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ClevrChico
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by ClevrChico »

I've thought about this with my two, still young kiddos. The reality is that my job didn't exist twenty years ago. Most likely the jobs my kids will work in do not currently exist.

My plan is to give them a strong work ethic, well rounded education, and let them find their way.

I have a feeling job fulfillment, salary, benefits, and job security will be more DIY with contracting jobs being the norm.
jridger2011
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by jridger2011 »

I think the Boglehead way would be assessing your needs, risks, and passions together.

Needs: Income that sustains a life you want to live with the hours/environment that you can sustain. Working night shifts, long shifts, outdoors, heavy travel, etc is not for everyone.

Risks: A lot of jobs have risks that a Boglehead will hedge. Some jobs require a lot of education such as medicine or law with a lot of loans to pay back. Some jobs have a high risk of injury or layoff, and that's just the type of risk to assess.

Passions: There is no need to love your work but you shouldn't loathe it so much you have issues falling asleep worrying about going in the next day.
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DonCamillo
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by DonCamillo »

I would also follow your passion. Have done that most of my life in several different careers.

A couple of things to keep in mind;

1) Most people will have more than one career in a lifetime. This is especially true as people live longer and stay healthy longer. I have seen figures claiming an average of seven career fields.

2) Any career field that is been growing faster than inflation has to hit limits sometime. Currently, Medicine and Education are each about one-sixth of the U.S. economy, and costs have been rising faster than inflation for more than a generation. This will have to lead to some form of consolidation. For example, in tertiary education, most teaching is now done by non-tenure track faculty. In the past decade, my class sizes and teaching load have grown by 50%. If you are entering a field that has been increasing its share of GDP, there will be career challenges long before that field passes 100% of GDP.
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TXJuice
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by TXJuice »

vested1 wrote:This decade's hot career may be the next decade's black hole, and the selection of which path to take is so often decided by serendipity and chance that a well thought out choice may turn out to be the wrong one.
This.
The best example I can think of: If you graduated 5-10 years ago as a petroleum engineer, you were sitting pretty. Nowadays, not so much. I'm sure it will have it's time again in the future, but that wouldn't mean much to a new grad who can't find a job.
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sdsailing
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by sdsailing »

Start a business. Be entreprenurial if it suits you. Buy real estate.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: The Boglehead Way of Employment

Post by White Coat Investor »

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:Hi Bogleheads,

I am trying to assess what your experience and wisdom is on the best way of the employment path during your lifetime.

That is, if you had to pass your highest wisdom to a child or grandchild on the employment path, what would it be ?

What would you advise in ways of job fulfillment, salary, benefits, job security, etc.

Thank you for any thoughts on your perspective, Fatty
Own your own business. That way you have to be fired by all (or at least most) of your customers to lose your job. Even if you're employed, get something going on the side.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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