Home renovation funding

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:21 pm

What is the bogleheads thinking on the best way to finance a home renovation? The options seem to be: 1--Home equity (very cheap money), 2--401k loan (maybe the cheapest money of all, maybe not depending on market conditions), 3--construction loan (really expensive) or 4--selling a kidney.

3 seems way too expensive, considering that I can borrow against home equity at prime. 4 is not really on the table. We won't be confident until appraisal that we have enough equity to borrow what we need.

What options am I missing? Which do you think best? Is borrowing from our 401ks crazy if we have the cashflow to repay the loan in 12 months while still maxing out our additional contributions?

We are talking about a very expensive renovation--about $600k. I'd borrow at most $250k. I won't get a tax deduction for home equity indebtedness at this point.

Thanks.

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:46 pm

What are you planning to do a tear-down?

That's a huge project. Do you have any experience doing this? The reason I ask is because construction projects ALWAYS go over budget because of what is found when walls are opened.

Because I live in the SF Bay Area I'm used to high prices but $600k has to be one extraordinary project!

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:53 pm

It is a really significant renovation to our single family home (about 2300 square feet) in the city of San Francisco, which explains the cost. The post-renovation value can support it, if current values stick. We don't have renovation experience, but who doesn't enjoy surprises?

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:12 pm

skteam wrote:It is a really significant renovation to our single family home (about 2300 square feet) in the city of San Francisco, which explains the cost. The post-renovation value can support it, if current values stick. We don't have renovation experience, but who doesn't enjoy surprises?

Are you adding square feet?

I'm trying to figure out what you're doing. We've recently remodeled our kitchen, 2 baths (including master) new roof, new/refinish 1500 sq.ft. hardwood floors for < $100k. Our house is 2500 sq.ft. We are just south of you on the coast.

Maybe you want to talk to my contractor?

We've cashed flowed all of our renovations over the years with the exception of when we added square footage. The problem with "remodeling" is that your taste isn't necessarily appreciated by the next buyer and therefore rarely translates into an increase of property values. And almost any "renovation" looks dated in 10 years. Borrowing for consumer items is like charging dinner on a CC and only paying the minimum payment. You wind up paying for months for something that was consumed in a hour.

edge · Post by **edge** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:17 pm

I'm not following how you could do all those renovations for that. Would you characterize them as low to mid range? I'm just thinking about the cost of cabinets...

As far as the OP goes I can only imagine that he is adding significant square footage.

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:27 pm

edge wrote:I'm not following how you could do all those renovations for that. Would you characterize them as low to mid range? I'm just thinking about the cost of cabinets...

Mid? We have a wonderful local cabinet dealer in town. Cabinets are custom cherry cabinets. Good sized kitchen, maybe 300 sq.ft. so a lot of cabinets. Quartz countertop in a U pattern so we have an island and an eating peninsula for four. Samsung French door fridge, bosch dishwasher, slide-in gas stove, hood microwave.

This is my third kitchen renovation (different houses) so maybe I learned something along the way. No there's ALWAYS something new you didn't think about.

ETA:
I think I lucked out by having all of my major contractors; carpenter, plumber and electrician living within a mile of my house. I told them that if they didn't show up as scheduled and I saw their truck in front of their house I was calling their wives!

My biggest distraction here is when the surf's up and my main contractor wants to go paddle boarding. We've worked together for three projects and are ready to start #4 next month.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:36 pm

We are far from my original question, but I am happy to follow you all down the rabbit hole...

I'm actually not adding square footage, although I am gaining a bit by reclaiming interior space.

Some context:

SF is not like most other markets, and what I'm doing is not very unusual here. In fact, houses like mine have become objects of desire for developers, who do renovations like mine and resell at 2x the purchase price or more.

The basic issue is that the homes in my neighborhood were built for a totally different demographic than the one buying the homes today. So a house like mine was built in the 40s for a "blue collar" family, and hasn't really been updated since. As you can imagine, there is a great deal about the house that needs to be changed to make it not only up-to-date, but also appealing to those shopping for a home in the $2M range. I can't possibly list it all, but we are not talking about replacing a couple of vanities.

I'm not casting any sort of judgment on those who built the home in the first place. But the reality is that current property values can support something totally different than what made sense when the home was built. Buying and building on vacant land is not rarely an option in the city, and that is why these kind of renovations happen.

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:46 pm

Sorry, my house is worth north of $1M and I still wouldn't speculate thinking if I spent $600k that it would be worth $2M. I have a 1/2 acre lot with a gorgeous ocean view. We're spending about $200k (moving back in after being out of state and out of the country for 9 years) and we're basically done.

The math doesn't make sense. You'll have 25-30% overruns and the market will correct. You will have spent more than you can sell it for. Financially it makes no sense.

Clean it up, do some nice touches and let your neighbors over-do it on the renovations. You'll still reap the appreciation of the market without the aggravation and risk of being a speculator.

edge · Post by **edge** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:49 pm

Ya, apologies. I think there is a scale difference that makes it hard to compare at first glance. My kitchen is 14x22 (incl eat in) and master bath is 14x14, master closets (2) 12x6. Roof required ~42-46 squares. If I scale it down it's probably in the ballpark roughly.

I have a hard time figuring out how to spend 600k within the footprint of a small/mid sized home. Or even a large home. High end costs of 60 k master bath, 120k kitchen, 25k other full baths, 30 k for flooring, 50-60k for general demolition/construction/framing/finishing/etc and so on still doesn't get even close.

Carefreeap wrote:
edge wrote:I'm not following how you could do all those renovations for that. Would you characterize them as low to mid range? I'm just thinking about the cost of cabinets...
Mid? We have a wonderful local cabinet dealer in town. Cabinets are custom cherry cabinets. Good sized kitchen, maybe 300 sq.ft. so a lot of cabinets. Quartz countertop in a U pattern so we have an island and an eating peninsula for four. Samsung French door fridge, bosch dishwasher, slide-in gas stove, hood microwave.

This is my third kitchen renovation (different houses) so maybe I learned something along the way. No there's ALWAYS something new you didn't think about.

ETA:
I think I lucked out by having all of my major contractors; carpenter, plumber and electrician living within a mile of my house. I told them that if they didn't show up as scheduled and I saw their truck in front of their house I was calling their wives! My biggest distraction here is when the surf's up and my main contractor wants to go paddle boarding. We've worked together for three projects and are ready to start #4 next month.

cheese_breath · Post by **cheese_breath** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:51 pm

skteam wrote:... We don't have renovation experience, but who doesn't enjoy surprises?

Are you going to try managing this yourself or hire a general contractor?

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:16 pm

Carefreeap wrote:
The math doesn't make sense. You'll have 25-30% overruns and the market will correct. You will have spent more than you can sell it for. Financially it makes no sense.

Clean it up, do some nice touches and let your neighbors over-do it on the renovations. You'll still reap the appreciation of the market without the aggravation and risk of being a speculator.

Is there something besides scale that makes your $200k renovation fundamentally different than my $600k one? Both are huge by normal standards. I'm sure that you think the details of your plan make it all make sense, and maybe it does. But you don't know any of those details, or even the fundamental figures, about my plan, so I can't really understand your comment as anything more than vacant speculation.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:16 pm

cheese_breath wrote:
skteam wrote:... We don't have renovation experience, but who doesn't enjoy surprises?
Are you going to try managing this yourself or hire a general contractor?

We are using a GC.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:25 pm

edge wrote: I have a hard time figuring out how to spend 600k within the footprint of a small/mid sized home. Or even a large home. High end costs of 60 k master bath, 120k kitchen, 25k other full baths, 30 k for flooring, 50-60k for general demolition/construction/framing/finishing/etc and so on still doesn't get even close.

Too many details to go into, but you have to think more broadly: entirely new facade and siding, every window replaced, new roof, skylights where they weren't before, seismic retrofitting, entirely new master bathroom where none exists, doors where there were none, walls moved, new lighting, new electrical, stairways moved, etc. Kitchen not only "new" but totally new layout. Every door reframed and replaced. And on and on and on. Plus architecture, engineering, and permits--the latter might be $25k alone in San Francisco.

Works about to about $260-$275 per square foot.

edge · Post by **edge** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:59 pm

At that point probably less risky to tear down the existing house.

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:00 am

skteam wrote:
Carefreeap wrote:
The math doesn't make sense. You'll have 25-30% overruns and the market will correct. You will have spent more than you can sell it for. Financially it makes no sense.

Clean it up, do some nice touches and let your neighbors over-do it on the renovations. You'll still reap the appreciation of the market without the aggravation and risk of being a speculator.
Is there something besides scale that makes your $200k renovation fundamentally different than my $600k one? Both are huge by normal standards. I'm sure that you think the details of your plan make it all make sense, and maybe it does. But you don't know any of those details, or even the fundamental figures, about my plan, so I can't really understand your comment as anything more than vacant speculation.

Experience.

Good luck. You don't want help, just affirmation. Can't do it.

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:02 am

edge wrote:At that point probably less risky to just tear down the existing house.

Totally not necessary and frankly very, very difficult.

Poster needs to learn the hard way.

ankzap · Post by **ankzap** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:25 am

edge wrote:At that point probably less risky to tear down the existing house.

That would easily cost at least $400+ per sqft. Additionally at least a year long permit process in San Francisco.

Goal33 · Post by **Goal33** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:58 am

Another off topic answer, but I really hope this construction project is because you want to enjoy the home for many more years and not because you're trying to remodel before a flip. Good luck

Edit: If you can afford to pay off the 401k loan in 12 months, why not just wait until you have the full amount in cash?

Naismith · Post by **Naismith** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:51 am

Costs in various areas also vary because of permitting requirements in different municipalities. Just amazing how this can impact total cost and add delays. I am sure that SF has a lot of hoops.

Also, I cannot stress the importance of getting multiple quotes. For our redo of two bathrooms, the quotes are running from $10,000 to $29,000.

wilked · Post by **wilked** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:26 am

Two things

I agree OP needs more quotes, dollar figure sounds high by maybe 30-50%

If OP can pay for it out of cash within a year, best to wait a year (I know, delayed gratification sucks!)

You are paying for your GC's early retirement if you sign off on it as is

NateH · Post by **NateH** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:24 am

"This time is different"...

Cindyjrn · Post by **Cindyjrn** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:58 am

edge wrote:At that point probably less risky to tear down the existing house.

Essentially, he is. Without the permitting issues. The house is likely being torn down the foundation and studs.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:24 am

Cindyjrn wrote:
edge wrote:At that point probably less risky to tear down the existing house.
Essentially, he is. Without the permitting issues. The house is likely being torn down the foundation and studs.

This is about the right way to think about this. Attempting to actually tear down and replace the house would be 1) more expensive in every way and 2) nearly impossible to achieve in light of permitting difficulties.

sdsailing · Post by **sdsailing** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:24 am

Well if the house value supports it then a HE loan or HELOC or some variation of that would probably be the way to go.

To the other point I agree that this is probably not the best financial decision, and we are RE investors in CA, so I know the market.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:20 pm

Thanks for your thoughts, I'm reaching the same conclusion re: financing.

sdsailing wrote:
To the other point I agree that this is probably not the best financial decision, and we are RE investors in CA, so I know the market.

Given what you know, what is the basis for this conclusion? This is a serious question, not intended to be rhetorical or argumentative. When you take what we paid for the house and add what it will cost to renovate it, our basis in the house will be significantly below its current marketable value. The overall cost is not a stretch for us at all, and we intend to stay in the home for quite a long time. If we do move, we probably won't sell this one, anyway.

If it is simply apprehension about the housing market in the bay area, I understand that view but I'm not sure it impacts my course of action.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:28 pm

Naismith wrote:Costs in various areas also vary because of permitting requirements in different municipalities. Just amazing how this can impact total cost and add delays. I am sure that SF has a lot of hoops.

Also, I cannot stress the importance of getting multiple quotes. For our redo of two bathrooms, the quotes are running from $10,000 to $29,000.

Thanks--I agree with all of this. We received multiple quotes, ranging from $500k to $1M.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:13 pm

Goal-33xSpending wrote:Another off topic answer, but I really hope this construction project is because you want to enjoy the home for many more years and not because you're trying to remodel before a flip. Good luck

Edit: If you can afford to pay off the 401k loan in 12 months, why not just wait until you have the full amount in cash?

Noted already, but this isn't a flip but intended as a long-term residence.

The "why not wait" question is a really fair one, and I admit that would be my normal course as well. The basic reasons are 1) given other things going on, the timing will be much easier this year than next, 2) delay has a meaningful lifestyle impact and 3) the line of credit/financing options might not be needed at all, we are just going to put them in place to protect ourselves if things really go off the rails. Once the renovation gets started, a home equity or construction loan won't be an option. So better to secure a backup plan now so that it is there if needed to cover unexpected developments.

sesq · Post by **sesq** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:13 pm

Most 401(k) loan plans that I have seen are capped at the lesser of 50% of the balance or $50k. Make HEL or HELOC (or refi) more likely.

nordlead · Post by **nordlead** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:27 pm

$600k would build my 2ksqft home from scratch 3x

skteam wrote:When you take what we paid for the house and add what it will cost to renovate it, our basis in the house will be significantly below its current marketable value.

If that is the case, then get a HELOC as you should have plenty of equity to tap.

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:41 pm

nordlead wrote:$600k would build my 2ksqft home from scratch 3x

skteam wrote:When you take what we paid for the house and add what it will cost to renovate it, our basis in the house will be significantly below its current marketable value.
If that is the case, then get a HELOC as you should have plenty of equity to tap.

Double check with your tax advisor but I think you can deduct up to $100k of an equity line.

FWIW I had a similar idea when we first bought this house 20 years ago. Keep the house up but do the minimum and tear it down and rebuild in 20 years. Life didn't quite work that way. Ironically if I were to do it today I'd build a smaller, single level home where we could age in place.

Grt2bOutdoors · Post by **Grt2bOutdoors** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:48 am

skteam wrote:It is a really significant renovation to our single family home (about 2300 square feet) in the city of San Francisco, which explains the cost. The post-renovation value can support it, if current values stick. We don't have renovation experience, but who doesn't enjoy surprises?

As someone who went through a home renovation, let me assure you "there are some surprises in life that you can do without".
Biggest source of aggravation includes city inspectors, contractor unresponsiveness and "unforseen conditions - as in you don't know what lurks behind or beneath structures until you start opening it up"

Grt2bOutdoors · Post by **Grt2bOutdoors** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:51 am

Naismith wrote:Costs in various areas also vary because of permitting requirements in different municipalities. Just amazing how this can impact total cost and add delays. I am sure that SF has a lot of hoops.

Also, I cannot stress the importance of getting multiple quotes. For our redo of two bathrooms, the quotes are running from $10,000 to $29,000.

One comes to you with furniture and fixtures, the other comes to you in "roughed" form.

Grt2bOutdoors · Post by **Grt2bOutdoors** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:54 am

skteam wrote:
Naismith wrote:Costs in various areas also vary because of permitting requirements in different municipalities. Just amazing how this can impact total cost and add delays. I am sure that SF has a lot of hoops.

Also, I cannot stress the importance of getting multiple quotes. For our redo of two bathrooms, the quotes are running from $10,000 to $29,000.
Thanks--I agree with all of this. We received multiple quotes, ranging from $500k to $1M.

Whichever one you select, add a buffer amount of 20 to 25 percent to your budget.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:22 pm

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and perspectives, it is all really helpful.

Re: going over budget, I'm aware of the high probability of that and we are not immune to the problem. A project of this size gives you some additional protections in that regard, but certainly not complete protection. In fact, the reason we are looking to finance any part of this to so that we have a financial resource that is easy to tap if things get out of hand and we can't correct.

I'm curious to hear from those who have gone through this--how much of your "over budget amount" resulted from surprises, and how much from changes you made mid-course? I've had friends impose huge cost overruns on themselves by imposing change orders along the way, but don't know what is typical.

Carefreeap · Post by **Carefreeap** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:46 pm

skteam wrote:Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and perspectives, it is all really helpful.

Re: going over budget, I'm aware of the high probability of that and we are not immune to the problem. A project of this size gives you some additional protections in that regard, but certainly not complete protection. In fact, the reason we are looking to finance any part of this to so that we have a financial resource that is easy to tap if things get out of hand and we can't correct.

I'm curious to hear from those who have gone through this--how much of your "over budget amount" resulted from surprises, and how much from changes you made mid-course? I've had friends impose huge cost overruns on themselves by imposing change orders along the way, but don't know what is typical.

There's a lot of "While we're doing this we should also do X" because of the age the house and its infrastructure. As an example we're doing a $95k landscaping job (4 yards + 1200 sq.ft. driveway). We realized that we really needed to remove four 60' eucalyptus trees because they were growing too close to the deck. Estimate came in at $10,500. Already over 10% budget. While they were removing one of the huge branches the wind caught it and it smashed into our deck stairway. Estimate to repair deck was $3,900 which we did get a credit for. But there was a "While we're doing this we should resign the stairway to meet a new path; now we've increased the bid to $6,500. We also looked into whether we should expand the deck and reinforce it because the joists don't meet code but that was going to come in at another 10k. We'll reinforce the joists but we're not going to expand the deck.

Once the driveway is removed our plumber will be inspecting the water line because at 60 years old it might be time replace the waterline vs sawcutting the new driveway when the water line fails. Ditto for the sewerline. And so it goes.

kerrigan · Post by **kerrigan** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:44 pm

I wish you luck. We are trying to plan a teardown with new construction on the Peninsula and contractors have been saying it'll cost around $300/square foot just to build, not including anything else. With the necessary 20% buffer, I'm starting to feel like our project isn't financially wise but haven't been able to convince DH that we need to start from scratch and dramatically downscale the vision. A single story home that may not be spacious when we have kids, but is right-sized for empty nesters is sounding really good to me right now. Or even just a remodel. I admit, our house plans are awesome, and maybe we can afford it, but I don't think I want to afford it anymore!

We could really use a downturn - my parents built a 3500 square feet house including garage for about $650,000 in 2011.

jsilver · Post by **jsilver** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:43 pm

@skteam,

To answer your original question, we are doing a remodel and I recently opened a 5/5 HELOC loan from PenFed. Assuming you have some financial self-discipline, I think it's a good product. Current rate is 3.75% and there was no charge to open it. I believe you can deduct the interest on the first $100K of the loan. Here's the thread where I was initially investigating this:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=157383&p=2361468

I will say that while I like the PenFed loan product, the application process is riddled with inefficiencies and frustrations so do be prepared if you go with PenFed.

P.S. I live on the SF Peninsula area and can sympathize with you on the costs of remodeling.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:00 pm

I just ran into this thread when looking for another, and thought I should close the loop now that my project is done. Bottom line: project completed slightly ahead of budget, slightly but not consequentially behind schedule. Market held up to expectations (maybe a bit better). Project took more of my time personally than I expected, even with a good GC. I'm not itching to do a similar project again any time soon but call this one a success by a significant margin. Obviously, results may vary.

MrOscar · Post by **MrOscar** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:53 am

Read the thread last night and didn't realize it was started back in 2015 until you posted. Congrats, it must feel great to have the project completed.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:09 pm

skteam wrote:I just ran into this thread when looking for another, and thought I should close the loop now that my project is done. Bottom line: project completed slightly ahead of budget, slightly but not consequentially behind schedule. Market held up to expectations (maybe a bit better). Project took more of my time personally than I expected, even with a good GC. I'm not itching to do a similar project again any time soon but call this one a success by a significant margin. Obviously, results may vary.

Thanks for closing the loop. We are in the middle of a large renovation, and it's nice to see someone who went through something similar satisfied.

wilked · Post by **wilked** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:18 am

skteam wrote:I just ran into this thread when looking for another, and thought I should close the loop now that my project is done. Bottom line: project completed slightly ahead of budget, slightly but not consequentially behind schedule. Market held up to expectations (maybe a bit better). Project took more of my time personally than I expected, even with a good GC. I'm not itching to do a similar project again any time soon but call this one a success by a significant margin. Obviously, results may vary.

Do you have your money spent arranged by buckets to share? Would be interested to see.

I.e.
Plumber - $7200
Electrician - $4500

Etc

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:32 am

Cash wrote: Thanks for closing the loop. We are in the middle of a large renovation, and it's nice to see someone who went through something similar satisfied.

Thanks! Good luck with your renovation.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:33 am

wilked wrote: Do you have your money spent arranged by buckets to share? Would be interested to see.

I.e.
Plumber - $7200
Electrician - $4500

Etc

I do have this info. Any other specific buckets you are interested in?

wilked · Post by **wilked** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:53 am

skteam wrote:
wilked wrote: Do you have your money spent arranged by buckets to share? Would be interested to see.

I.e.
Plumber - $7200
Electrician - $4500

Etc
I do have this info. Any other specific buckets you are interested in?

Basically I was hoping for them all, maybe every bucket > $1-3k?

Plumbing
Electrical
GC
Drywall
Roofer
Flooring
Windows
Hvac
Paint
Lighting
Tiling

And on and on. Would be useful for planning purposes

Thanks

doug1022 · Post by **doug1022** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:02 pm

skteam wrote:I just ran into this thread when looking for another, and thought I should close the loop now that my project is done. Bottom line: project completed slightly ahead of budget, slightly but not consequentially behind schedule. Market held up to expectations (maybe a bit better). Project took more of my time personally than I expected, even with a good GC. I'm not itching to do a similar project again any time soon but call this one a success by a significant margin. Obviously, results may vary.

congratulations! Can you tell us how you finally decided to fund the project given your original query (home equity, 401k loan, construction loan, etc)? Thanks

Jags4186 · Post by **Jags4186** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:10 pm

For $600k I'd just look for a nicer house with less hassle...

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Jags4186 wrote:For $600k I'd just look for a nicer house with less hassle...

Okay, but understand that it would have cost several 100k more to get the same house if I'd done it your way.

Edit: Didn't mean for this to sound harsh--the renovation process is a pain and you are right to call is a "hassle." But it saved us a great deal of money and we got to do things the way we wanted them.

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:05 pm

doug1022 wrote: congratulations! Can you tell us how you finally decided to fund the project given your original query (home equity, 401k loan, construction loan, etc)? Thanks

Thanks! We paid mostly out of pocket. We did borrow against home equity to the maximum deductible amount, because the rate is too good to pass up when accounting for the deduction, and it seemed worth it to increase liquidity "just in case." We are trying to decide whether to continue to carry that debt or pay it off now that we know we can do so without worry.

Nearly A Moose · Post by **Nearly A Moose** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:25 pm

OP - If you're kind enough to share your numbers, would you also mind sharing the total time for the project?

skteam · Post by **skteam** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:35 pm

Nearly A Moose wrote:OP - If you're kind enough to share your numbers, would you also mind sharing the total time for the project?

I may not be able to share the numbers--it takes too much time to track down. But the project was about 9 months to substantial completion.