TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
Topic Author
vas
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:51 pm

TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by vas »

Hi. I've been in the process of simplifying our retirement investments and bringing things into line with Boglehead standards. All the information and advice here has been quite helpful. One of the final pieces of the puzzle is a set of TIAA-CREF accounts from my wife's former employer. There is only about $25K in the accounts so, in the interest of simplicity, I'd like to move these funds into an IRA, 403b, or taxable account. She has two pension funds that I'm assuming are pre-tax. She also has two "After Tax Annuities." We plan to call TIAA-CREF this week and discuss roll over options etc. In preparation for that call, I'd like to solicit advice about the after tax annuities. Generally speaking, is there anyway we can pull the funds out of these annuities? What questions should we ask the TIAA-CREF representative?
There is nothing you can't prove if your outlook is sufficiently limited
Papijar
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:36 pm

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by Papijar »

What is the name of the annuity? TC has 6 different types of after tax annuities. 1. ATRA (After tax retirement annuity). 2.Teacher's Personal Annuity. 3. Personal annuity select. 4. Intelligent variable annuity. 5. Investment horizon annuity. 6. Single premium immediate annuity

There are only 3 other companies who have annuities close to competing with TC: Vanguard, Fidelity, and Jefferson National.

And depending on the type, I would argue TC has the best annuities but I need to know the type you have. Based on your description of "two," my bet is that y'all have teachers personal annuities or personal annuity selects.

Let me know and I will explain pros/cons.
Papijar
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:36 pm

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by Papijar »

Actually, 7...I forgot about the lifetime variable select:)
Topic Author
vas
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:51 pm

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by vas »

The annuity is titled "AFTER-TAX RETIREMENT ANNUITY"

My original assertion that there are two annuities was in error. There is only one. I have no explanation for the original error.

It appears that one account is a 403b so we should be able to roll that into a tIRA
The next is a TIAA "Defined Contribution Plan" (but apparently not a 401k or 403b). I'm hoping that we can roll this over into a tIRA.

I'll ask TIAA what options are available for the annuity. If possible, it might be simplest to just withdraw the funds and take the small tax & penalty hit.
There is nothing you can't prove if your outlook is sufficiently limited
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by The Wizard »

There's a long discussion thread on T-C ATRA over at the T-C Morningstar forum.
I'd advise signing up over there and talking to folks who know more about ATRAs.
Attempted new signature...
Bill M
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by Bill M »

You should consider qualified funds to be valuable. At a certain point you can't contribute to those accounts, so don't close them just "for simplicity".
User avatar
DonCamillo
Posts: 1044
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:27 pm
Location: Northern New Jersey

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by DonCamillo »

vas wrote:The annuity is titled "AFTER-TAX RETIREMENT ANNUITY"

My original assertion that there are two annuities was in error. There is only one. I have no explanation for the original error.

It appears that one account is a 403b so we should be able to roll that into a tIRA
The next is a TIAA "Defined Contribution Plan" (but apparently not a 401k or 403b). I'm hoping that we can roll this over into a tIRA.

I'll ask TIAA what options are available for the annuity. If possible, it might be simplest to just withdraw the funds and take the small tax & penalty hit.
If one is a 403b, the other is probably a 401a, typically a required plan with contributions from both employee and employer for government or non-profit.
Les vieillards aiment à donner de bons préceptes, pour se consoler de n'être plus en état de donner de mauvais exemples. | (François, duc de La Rochefoucauld, maxim 93)
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by The Wizard »

Bill M wrote:You should consider qualified funds to be valuable. At a certain point you can't contribute to those accounts, so don't close them just "for simplicity".
Correct.
Just $25K in there, so keep the account(s) and move it all into TREA (TIAA Real Estate Account) which is unavailable otherwise.
You can thank me later...
Attempted new signature...
Papijar
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:36 pm

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by Papijar »

In addition to the Real estate account, you have access to TIAA traditional (current rate of 3.5%) and cref variable accounts (e.g., Cref stock, Cref bond, etc.).

Withdrawals from Tiaa traditional have liquidity restrictions. If the money is in Tiaa traditional then lump-sums are not available. You have to take 10 payments over 9 years.

You can defer taking the money out until age 90. If you pass away and your spouse is the sole beneficiary then your spouse can continue the contract in their name.

I hope this helps.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 71403
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by LadyGeek »

Retired1809 has a question which I've moved into a new thread. See: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity - How to begin withdrawals?
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
User avatar
CULater
Posts: 2832
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:59 am
Location: Hic sunt dracones

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by CULater »

I have an ATRA with TIAA-CREF and withdrawal options depend on whether the funds are invested in TIAA Traditional. Funds invested in TIAA Traditional can only be withdrawn via a 10-year Transfer Payout Annuity or a Lifetime Annuity. Funds invested in TREA or CREF can be withdrawn as lump sum distributions. By the way, I fortunately had a record of the amounts of my after-tax contributions. When you withdraw, you will own tax on the earnings, but not the after-tax contributions. TIAA did not have the correct amount of my after-tax contributions and I was able to get that corrected because I had records. Otherwise, I would end up paying tax on a larger portion of my withdrawals than I should. Be sure to ask them and check against your records.
On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.
Northster
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by Northster »

There are two other options to consider for TIAA Trad withdrawal -- taking interest earned each year, or taking a RMD. I have been doing the former and plan to switch to RMD when interest is insufficient to meet RMD requirement. The income is lower in early years but I think makes more sense in the long run.
User avatar
CULater
Posts: 2832
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:59 am
Location: Hic sunt dracones

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by CULater »

Northster wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:57 am There are two other options to consider for TIAA Trad withdrawal -- taking interest earned each year, or taking a RMD. I have been doing the former and plan to switch to RMD when interest is insufficient to meet RMD requirement. The income is lower in early years but I think makes more sense in the long run.
I'm pretty sure you don't have these options available with the ATRA, at least I don't. Only ways to take withdrawals is to TPA or SPIA the total amount in Traditional. Outside the ATRA, I do have these other withdrawal options available.
On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 71403
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: TIAA-CREF After Tax Annuity

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ FYI - This is thread is from 2015.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Post Reply