Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

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cogito
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Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by cogito »

Bogleheads, I come to seek wisdom and guidance in yet another "is it worth it" thread

My wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. Single income (mine). We moved here after leaving the bay area 3 years ago because of cost of living. I have been slowly getting burned out of my current role as a Zoom manager in a fairly demanding WFH tech-adjacent role. The stress of Covid while raising toddlers has taken a big toll on us. We've talked a lot about "one more year, then take a break and move somewhere cheaper near family to recharge", but every week that goes by, I care a little less, and feel a little more burnt out and disengaged from my work obligations. My health has started to mildly suffer and coping mechanisms and behaviors have increased. I'm doing a decent job in my role, but sooner or later work performance will suffer more, and catch up with me, I can feel it happening. My current total comp is about 220-230k a year. Our net worth is 950k. 200k of that is home equity, with 700k on the mortgage at 2.5%, but we could sell fairly easily if we needed to. We invest about 80k a year after expenses. So we are comfortable, successful, like where we live, wouldn't mind staying, but my job is making me miserable. Options I have worked through include:

1. Quit/fired and take a sabbatical for a year, recharge, enjoy my little ones. I'll be able to get another job easily if I use the break to sharpen my skills, probably a little less than currently income, maybe 180-200kish.

2. Quit, move to LCOL near family, take a... longer sabbatical, start to freelance, take interesting contract work. Lower savings/standard of living, but we could do this indefinitely. Probably would never return to CA, but I can work remotely.

3. Seek other remote work while staying where we are. I'm not sure how much of my burnout is due to my current job vs. trying to do it remotely with toddlers at home for 2 years, but I think its a bit of both. I turned down one opportunity for 240k TC in tech, have another interesting one that may be 270k, but I'm worried that an intense new WFH job would make things seriously worse, not better.

4. After 2 months of interviews and negotiations, I have a formal offer on its way for a FAANG company at 340k total comp, but it would require us to move back to the south bay area (albeit with a hybrid work schedule and comfy bus rides in to work). I like the team, it seems like a healthy environment, and it would take our yearly savings from about 80k to 120k after the increased cost of living. Year 2 TC would likely be close to 400k, so its an incredible opportunity that I feel I will regret if I don't take. However, I have no energy right now, my skills are rusty, and I'm scared of it not working out. Maybe those fears are unfounded by the invigoration a new challenge and adventure will provide.

I have literally changed my mind 5 times over this weekend about accepting the offer. I just cannot decide. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game... but will I kick myself if I don't seize this opportunity? It could get us to some version of FIRE in 3-4 years, with the goals that we have. My wife and myself both came from lower-income backgrounds, it seems obvious to keep the foot on the gas and set up a new legacy for our own family. Has anybody else ever faced burnout from a fairly healthy job environment, and successfully switched jobs to cure it? Or taken a sabbatical while young, early 30's, and not regretted it? Is it obvious that I should jump at the opportunity, and then if it doesn't work, go back to option 1 or 2? Any guidance would be considered and listened to.
jarjarM
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by jarjarM »

My vote is for taking the FAANG role. Often time a new environment will help bring some fresh perspective and freshness that will help with the burn out. The additional TC and potentially better career opportunity is worth it at your age. Once you get close enough to FI and around 40, then reevaluate. That approach work out great for my family and hopefully for yours too.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by White Coat Investor »

cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pmMy wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game...
What?

My thought is that if someone is burnt out in their early 30s they may be in the wrong career field. It's still super early. Why not look into changing careers? With a stay at home parent plus a work from home parent and only two kids it's hard for me to believe the issue is the kids. Trust me when I say it doesn't get any easier as they get older, especially if more come along to replace them in the toddler department.

I think you should take the job. It's time to make hay. You can always quit if it truly sucks.
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fortunefavored
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by fortunefavored »

I vote take the job too.. for counter-intuitive reasons.. FANGM is super accommodating to family and work/life balance issues. If you need extra buffer/time/space.. just say so, and they'll take care of it. Plus they usually have all sorts of other perqs that can help out - laundry service, meal services, on-site car maintenance - even stipends for house cleaners. With the extra money, you can also buy a lot of help if necessary (part-time nanny?) Also don't worry about being rusty.. the hard part is getting hired. FANGM is full of mediocrity - you'll do fine!

I see little difference between taking the FANGM job and failing and taking 1 year off. Except in the first scenario you'll have a boat load of money. Plus if it works out, many of them will let you switch to full remote with a tiny salary haircut, and you can move to your LCOL location with family AND your boat load of money.

Also unasked for advice as someone who worked 80 hour weeks in a pressure cooker: pick up a HARD exercise. Running, cycling, rowing.. and do it regularly.
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dziuniek
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by dziuniek »

Take it, if it works out - great.
If it doesn't work out you can look for something else / take a sabbatical.
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CFOKevin
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by CFOKevin »

Another vote for the FAANG offer. Regardless of how it ultimately pans out, having one of those companies on your resume pays dividends for the rest of your career. Plus, future employers expect to pay you more than you were making before. And, as noted above, they (at least the ones with the comfy buses) do a great job offering benefits that improve work/life balance, are full of other young parents you can socialize with, and offer future flexibility on your role/location.
gogreen
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by gogreen »

Really surprised to read votes for accepting FAANG role. For 3 and 2 yrs old kids I'd suggest just taking a slow role in some big corp with delay start in 3-4 months. Kids will grow and you can pursue FAANG or whatever will be fancy that time :sharebeer
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Mr. Maunder
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Mr. Maunder »

I'd vote for the FANGM job (disclaimer: I also joined one when I was seriously burned out, so I sympathize with your dilemma).

Pros:
- Significant upside on compensation. At your (young, to me!) age, the potential compounding effect is huge.
- High flexibility within job (change roles, change projects, work permanent part-time, take leaves if needed, etc.)
- Growing possibility of permanent remote work in the future, meaning you may only slingshot through the Bay Area for a few years.
- You'll have the FANGM role on your resume for any future job changes; this may be especially valuable if you decide to freelance.

Cons:
- You have to move back to Bay Area (you mentioned COL, there may be other reasons you don't like it).
- Increased COL.
- No year off. However, you may well be able to negotiate breathing room between jobs for R&R, or extra unpaid leave early in the role.

My take is that there is a lot of upside here, with not much downside even if you try it for a year and hate it. Also, my experience is that just changing jobs itself can be a huge relief, because you can put down existing sources of work stress. The new job will be stressful, but for the first six months it's more likely to be the "I don't know what I'm doing" stress than the "everything depends on me" stress. (Also, at least in my part of my company, everybody knows that everybody's burned out right now.)
I know I don't know all of the answers, but I think I know some of the questions.
SnowBog
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by SnowBog »

White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:32 pm
cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pmMy wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game...
What?

My thought is that if someone is burnt out in their early 30s they may be in the wrong career field. It's still super early. Why not look into changing careers? With a stay at home parent plus a work from home parent and only two kids it's hard for me to believe the issue is the kids.
I agree with this! Something else is going on... I think you need to figure out what's stressing you and / or what you need to motivate you that you don't have right now.

But I'm not sure I'd take the new offer, at least not if you don't have a reason other than money for doing so. If the extra money causes issues with your health, family, or burns you or quicker - IMHO not worth it.

From my view, you have a fairly perfect setup, full time WFH with a stay at home parent. That gives you tons of flexibility, let's you be present in the lives of your kids and spouse. When kids aren't in school, let's you do things like travel the world (you just need an internet connection to do your job right now).

It's really up to you to figure out why this isn't working out for you, and what you need to adjust. Maybe it's something simple, like a designated "work" area/time that's off limits to family. Maybe it's the opposite, and you need to schedule time away from work - take lunch daily with your family, use vacation to be present with them, etc. Or maybe it's something about the work you don't like...

I'd recommend reading The New Retirementality: Planning Your Life and Living Your Dreams...at Any Age You Want https://www.amazon.com/dp/1119611482?ta ... UTF8&psc=1. It makes the case that we shouldn't think about "retiring", but instead should think about what we want to with our 168 hours a week. If you had enough money to never need to work again, you still need to "spend" your 168 hours each week. Most of us need "something" to fill our days. The key is figuring out how you'd ideally fill your days, and then if that happens to align with your paid employment - you've hit the jackpot. (Otherwise, maybe it gives you ideas on how to change your job and/or find what you are missing elsewhere to make the whole thing work.)

For me personally, I've tried to find more balance. I've realized that a) I'm replaceable b) my work / coworkers / business will be just fine without me c) if I don't prioritize time for myself no one will d) at some point taking on more work/stress is a detriment to myself and my employer. As a result, when I've been sick - I shockingly take the day off and no longer check messages while I'm out. It's a small start - but for me it's a start...

Good luck!

ETA: Lots of FAANG jobs are available with full WFH, at least for now (some maybe permanently). So if you "really" want a FAANG role, you could keep looking and find one that doesn't require you to relocate to someplace you don't want to live and have to return to the office (even hybrid). Might be harder to find, but if you got in the door and have an offer, you can see what their flexibility is and how badly they want you.
regularguy455
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by regularguy455 »

Take a decent break before starting with FAANG. I took a two week vacation between jobs and it was worth every (lost) penny. Similar situation - left feeling burned out and joined a good company. Still happy a year later!
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by muffins14 »

cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm
My wife and I are 32,

I seems like a young mans game... but will I kick myself if I don't seize this opportunity?
1) you are 32. You are not old. Many people do not retire from tech in their 20s :-p
2) your comp could be 400k in a year or 500k in 3 years. If engineer or data, maybe 600k? This is good. This is how you build wealth and later downshift, obviously.
3) you passed the interview which means the hiring manager and/or team is confident you can perform at the expected level. You should also be confident as a result

I would totally go for it (I did so a few years ago at a similar age). Bonus of being employee in FANG is that you’ll have a lot of incoming recruiter emails so when you do want to leave, it should be easy to get connected.

Can you just push the start date back a month?
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
TheHiker
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by TheHiker »

I was in a similar situation three years ago and I took the FAANG offer. My advise is to take it.
The work at FAANG is more stressful than my old job though I like the project and the team.
But I am that much closer to my FI number now (my total comp has doubled since I joined due to RSU growth and refreshers).
I also learned a lot.

If you decide to take it, I second the recommendation to take a break. I regret I did not.

You are not risking anything if your alternative is to quit.
Financologist
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Financologist »

cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm Bogleheads, I come to seek wisdom and guidance in yet another "is it worth it" thread

My wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. Single income (mine). We moved here after leaving the bay area 3 years ago because of cost of living. I have been slowly getting burned out of my current role as a Zoom manager in a fairly demanding WFH tech-adjacent role. The stress of Covid while raising toddlers has taken a big toll on us. We've talked a lot about "one more year, then take a break and move somewhere cheaper near family to recharge", but every week that goes by, I care a little less, and feel a little more burnt out and disengaged from my work obligations. My health has started to mildly suffer and coping mechanisms and behaviors have increased. I'm doing a decent job in my role, but sooner or later work performance will suffer more, and catch up with me, I can feel it happening. My current total comp is about 220-230k a year. Our net worth is 950k. 200k of that is home equity, with 700k on the mortgage at 2.5%, but we could sell fairly easily if we needed to. We invest about 80k a year after expenses. So we are comfortable, successful, like where we live, wouldn't mind staying, but my job is making me miserable. Options I have worked through include:

1. Quit/fired and take a sabbatical for a year, recharge, enjoy my little ones. I'll be able to get another job easily if I use the break to sharpen my skills, probably a little less than currently income, maybe 180-200kish.

2. Quit, move to LCOL near family, take a... longer sabbatical, start to freelance, take interesting contract work. Lower savings/standard of living, but we could do this indefinitely. Probably would never return to CA, but I can work remotely.

3. Seek other remote work while staying where we are. I'm not sure how much of my burnout is due to my current job vs. trying to do it remotely with toddlers at home for 2 years, but I think its a bit of both. I turned down one opportunity for 240k TC in tech, have another interesting one that may be 270k, but I'm worried that an intense new WFH job would make things seriously worse, not better.

4. After 2 months of interviews and negotiations, I have a formal offer on its way for a FAANG company at 340k total comp, but it would require us to move back to the south bay area (albeit with a hybrid work schedule and comfy bus rides in to work). I like the team, it seems like a healthy environment, and it would take our yearly savings from about 80k to 120k after the increased cost of living. Year 2 TC would likely be close to 400k, so its an incredible opportunity that I feel I will regret if I don't take. However, I have no energy right now, my skills are rusty, and I'm scared of it not working out. Maybe those fears are unfounded by the invigoration a new challenge and adventure will provide.

I have literally changed my mind 5 times over this weekend about accepting the offer. I just cannot decide. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game... but will I kick myself if I don't seize this opportunity? It could get us to some version of FIRE in 3-4 years, with the goals that we have. My wife and myself both came from lower-income backgrounds, it seems obvious to keep the foot on the gas and set up a new legacy for our own family. Has anybody else ever faced burnout from a fairly healthy job environment, and successfully switched jobs to cure it? Or taken a sabbatical while young, early 30's, and not regretted it? Is it obvious that I should jump at the opportunity, and then if it doesn't work, go back to option 1 or 2? Any guidance would be considered and listened to.
Take the job and request a start date 8 weeks out. 2 weeks' notice plus 6 weeks to recharge and you may be firing on all cylinders. If not you can change course again. Good luck and take it easy.
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cogito
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by cogito »

Thanks for all the advice. I accepted the offer! Seemed unanimous not only here, but also guidance from friends and family. I already feel nervous but excited for the new challenge.
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Sandtrap »

cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm Bogleheads, I come to seek wisdom and guidance in yet another "is it worth it" thread

My wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. Single income (mine). We moved here after leaving the bay area 3 years ago because of cost of living. I have been slowly getting burned out of my current role as a Zoom manager in a fairly demanding WFH tech-adjacent role. The stress of Covid while raising toddlers has taken a big toll on us. We've talked a lot about "one more year, then take a break and move somewhere cheaper near family to recharge", but every week that goes by, I care a little less, and feel a little more burnt out and disengaged from my work obligations. My health has started to mildly suffer and coping mechanisms and behaviors have increased. I'm doing a decent job in my role, but sooner or later work performance will suffer more, and catch up with me, I can feel it happening. My current total comp is about 220-230k a year. Our net worth is 950k. 200k of that is home equity, with 700k on the mortgage at 2.5%, but we could sell fairly easily if we needed to. We invest about 80k a year after expenses. So we are comfortable, successful, like where we live, wouldn't mind staying, but my job is making me miserable. Options I have worked through include:

1. Quit/fired and take a sabbatical for a year, recharge, enjoy my little ones. I'll be able to get another job easily if I use the break to sharpen my skills, probably a little less than currently income, maybe 180-200kish.

2. Quit, move to LCOL near family, take a... longer sabbatical, start to freelance, take interesting contract work. Lower savings/standard of living, but we could do this indefinitely. Probably would never return to CA, but I can work remotely.

3. Seek other remote work while staying where we are. I'm not sure how much of my burnout is due to my current job vs. trying to do it remotely with toddlers at home for 2 years, but I think its a bit of both. I turned down one opportunity for 240k TC in tech, have another interesting one that may be 270k, but I'm worried that an intense new WFH job would make things seriously worse, not better.

4. After 2 months of interviews and negotiations, I have a formal offer on its way for a FAANG company at 340k total comp, but it would require us to move back to the south bay area (albeit with a hybrid work schedule and comfy bus rides in to work). I like the team, it seems like a healthy environment, and it would take our yearly savings from about 80k to 120k after the increased cost of living. Year 2 TC would likely be close to 400k, so its an incredible opportunity that I feel I will regret if I don't take. However, I have no energy right now, my skills are rusty, and I'm scared of it not working out. Maybe those fears are unfounded by the invigoration a new challenge and adventure will provide.

I have literally changed my mind 5 times over this weekend about accepting the offer. I just cannot decide. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game... but will I kick myself if I don't seize this opportunity? It could get us to some version of FIRE in 3-4 years, with the goals that we have. My wife and myself both came from lower-income backgrounds, it seems obvious to keep the foot on the gas and set up a new legacy for our own family. Has anybody else ever faced burnout from a fairly healthy job environment, and successfully switched jobs to cure it? Or taken a sabbatical while young, early 30's, and not regretted it? Is it obvious that I should jump at the opportunity, and then if it doesn't work, go back to option 1 or 2? Any guidance would be considered and listened to.
#2, move and be happy with that move, enjoy family, etc.

#4, nothing to lose by trying, kick yourself if you don't, so do. Give it a personal commitement of 2 years or some finite time in which you go by yourself to have a talk with your "Self" if it's time for #2 or go another year.
After another year. . go sit by yourself and have a long talk with your "Self" if it's time for #2.
Repeat
Repeat
Repeat.

On the big scheme of life, you are very very young. And. . . in the FAANG Job. . your experience level and age and maturity will be a huge plus.
j :D
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Sandtrap
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Sandtrap »

cogito wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:31 pm Thanks for all the advice. I accepted the offer! Seemed unanimous not only here, but also guidance from friends and family. I already feel nervous but excited for the new challenge.
Burnout :D is an internal artificial construct in how one reacts to stress or responds to stress after some thought.
When one has a passion for something, there's no burnout.
When one says, "I don't wanna. . ." then there's burnout.

You will do great!
Congratulations!

What an exciting time of life!

Keep us posted on your new FAANG job!
j :D
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muffins14
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by muffins14 »

cogito wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:31 pm Thanks for all the advice. I accepted the offer! Seemed unanimous not only here, but also guidance from friends and family. I already feel nervous but excited for the new challenge.
Thanks for following up, and good luck!
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
soxfan10
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by soxfan10 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:32 pm
cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pmMy wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game...
What?

My thought is that if someone is burnt out in their early 30s they may be in the wrong career field. It's still super early. Why not look into changing careers? With a stay at home parent plus a work from home parent and only two kids it's hard for me to believe the issue is the kids. Trust me when I say it doesn't get any easier as they get older, especially if more come along to replace them in the toddler department.

I think you should take the job. It's time to make hay. You can always quit if it truly sucks.
This seems like a bit much... unless you have a much narrower definition of career than I. Its also a bit surprising coming from a doctor - there are a ton of attorney/doctor/consultant/i-banker burn-outs in their early to mid 30s after putting in 8-10 years. There's a reason the median tenure at a large law firm is ~3.5 years despite the huge compensation - some jobs are incredibly tiring and dont allow for a personal life. I had similar burn-out issues periodically in the 30-33 range while working as a consultant. I recently (~6 months ago) left for a different job (but same career) and almost all of the symptoms are gone six months later (although just starting to get some of the physical strength back).
dcw213
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by dcw213 »

Congrats! I think you made the right move. Give it a year or two and if it is killing you, go the LCOL plan with some more savings (assuming your family is OK with moving again). It will look great on your resume regardless and you won't have to question "what if". And who knows, it may be a good fit.

I would encourage you to take extended time between gigs. Take 4 to 7 days if possible and just sleep and relax. Assuming your comment about increased coping mechanisms is related to some form of self medicating. Take a hard break and just relax. You need a reset. Give your wife one too.

Signed,
Parent of toddlers during COVID who quit and switched jobs due to burnout and other child specific factors
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by spammagnet »

dcw213 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:40 pm... I would encourage you to take extended time between gigs. Take 4 to 7 days if possible and just sleep and relax. ...
4 to 7 DAYS is extended time? Wow. Maybe if you said 4 to 7 weeks, it would be extended. Any time off measured in days is inadequate to recharge adequately.
dcw213
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by dcw213 »

spammagnet wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:17 pm
dcw213 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:40 pm... I would encourage you to take extended time between gigs. Take 4 to 7 days if possible and just sleep and relax. ...
4 to 7 DAYS is extended time? Wow. Maybe if you said 4 to 7 weeks, it would be extended. Any time off measured in days is inadequate to recharge adequately.
I intended this to mean time for (mostly) just him. I agree time off inbetween jobs should be longer (I would suggest 2 months if possible).

Family responsibilities with toddlers don't allow for much personal recharge time - during burnout such as this stepping away from the grind of work and parenting (maybe not completely but largely) for half a week or a week will help a lot with the recharge that you need. Like I said, let your spouse do this as well as the pandemic has been hard on parents of young kids not working as well. Good luck.
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by FoolStreet »

cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm Bogleheads, I come to seek wisdom and guidance in yet another "is it worth it" thread

My wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. Single income (mine). We moved here after leaving the bay area 3 years ago because of cost of living. I have been slowly getting burned out of my current role as a Zoom manager in a fairly demanding WFH tech-adjacent role. The stress of Covid while raising toddlers has taken a big toll on us. We've talked a lot about "one more year, then take a break and move somewhere cheaper near family to recharge", but every week that goes by, I care a little less, and feel a little more burnt out and disengaged from my work obligations. My health has started to mildly suffer and coping mechanisms and behaviors have increased. I'm doing a decent job in my role, but sooner or later work performance will suffer more, and catch up with me, I can feel it happening. My current total comp is about 220-230k a year. Our net worth is 950k. 200k of that is home equity, with 700k on the mortgage at 2.5%, but we could sell fairly easily if we needed to. We invest about 80k a year after expenses. So we are comfortable, successful, like where we live, wouldn't mind staying, but my job is making me miserable. Options I have worked through include:

1. Quit/fired and take a sabbatical for a year, recharge, enjoy my little ones. I'll be able to get another job easily if I use the break to sharpen my skills, probably a little less than currently income, maybe 180-200kish.

2. Quit, move to LCOL near family, take a... longer sabbatical, start to freelance, take interesting contract work. Lower savings/standard of living, but we could do this indefinitely. Probably would never return to CA, but I can work remotely.

3. Seek other remote work while staying where we are. I'm not sure how much of my burnout is due to my current job vs. trying to do it remotely with toddlers at home for 2 years, but I think its a bit of both. I turned down one opportunity for 240k TC in tech, have another interesting one that may be 270k, but I'm worried that an intense new WFH job would make things seriously worse, not better.

4. After 2 months of interviews and negotiations, I have a formal offer on its way for a FAANG company at 340k total comp, but it would require us to move back to the south bay area (albeit with a hybrid work schedule and comfy bus rides in to work). I like the team, it seems like a healthy environment, and it would take our yearly savings from about 80k to 120k after the increased cost of living. Year 2 TC would likely be close to 400k, so its an incredible opportunity that I feel I will regret if I don't take. However, I have no energy right now, my skills are rusty, and I'm scared of it not working out. Maybe those fears are unfounded by the invigoration a new challenge and adventure will provide.

I have literally changed my mind 5 times over this weekend about accepting the offer. I just cannot decide. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game... but will I kick myself if I don't seize this opportunity? It could get us to some version of FIRE in 3-4 years, with the goals that we have. My wife and myself both came from lower-income backgrounds, it seems obvious to keep the foot on the gas and set up a new legacy for our own family. Has anybody else ever faced burnout from a fairly healthy job environment, and successfully switched jobs to cure it? Or taken a sabbatical while young, early 30's, and not regretted it? Is it obvious that I should jump at the opportunity, and then if it doesn't work, go back to option 1 or 2? Any guidance would be considered and listened to.
I suggest taking the role and moving.

But more importantly, figure out a *solid* way to get some childcare to free up time for you and your spouse to invest in each other again. Toddler age is tough. It will get better, but if you don't invest in each of you together and separately, you will struggle. Make sure you each have a routine in place to get out of the house - whether it's working out, starting a hobby together, or joining a supper club with other friends in the area. Since you mentioned you are single family, make sure that your spouse gets their me-time, too, and invest in doing the dishes and vacuuming and hiring a cleaning service, etc. I don't know how to manage a family where there is only one person providing the income and I'm used to a 50/50 relationship, but I have seen divorces happen because the parents simply needed some time without the responsibilities of the kids. Good luck!
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Great advice ^

I’d get every support system in place to help during toddler years.
Paid, unpaid, grandparents, etc.

I personally would not care much about the new job. I.e. ride it out, enjoy the perks etc.

Given how smart you likely are, skating the way thru toddler and K-5 years is the way to go. It’s about optimizing life on all fronts, not just for your employer.

Good luck and congrats on the new opportunity!
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minimalistmarc
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by minimalistmarc »

White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:32 pm
cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pmMy wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game...
What?

My thought is that if someone is burnt out in their early 30s they may be in the wrong career field. It's still super early. Why not look into changing careers? With a stay at home parent plus a work from home parent and only two kids it's hard for me to believe the issue is the kids. Trust me when I say it doesn't get any easier as they get older, especially if more come along to replace them in the toddler department.

I think you should take the job. It's time to make hay. You can always quit if it truly sucks.
It’s not hard to believe at all. Some parents are lucky enough to have grandparents providing full time child care for free while others get zero time to themselves ever for many years. Working from home or being a stay at home parent doesn’t help with this. What happens is that the SAHP is “working” 24/7 looking after the family and the single worker is either working or parenting.

Free time, and time together is very important for mental health. I empathise with the OP
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JoeRetire
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by JoeRetire »

cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm I have literally changed my mind 5 times over this weekend about accepting the offer. I just cannot decide.
If it was me, the fact that I couldn't decide would tell me that my gut says not to accept the offer.

But you'll get dozens of opinions here, from all different viewpoints. And the only ones that matter are yours and your wife's.

The only suggestion I can offer is this: think of the long term and not the immediate. You are only 32 - you have your whole life ahead of you.
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Nowizard
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Nowizard »

Classic case to see a counselor at your EAP if you have one or consider a private therapist. This is not only a personal decision but one that affects your wife and young family. The primary issue is quite possibly "nothing more" than the combination of work (Which you have managed well to now), the expected issues with young children, and a marriage. You know whether you have had stress challenges in the past or whether this is one most all of us share in one degree or another with the epidemic. Those are issues that exist wherever you are, but there is the huge one of the epidemic that adds so many complex and uncertain factors. It seems you are talking about wanting a more balanced life as a key concept. Sounds like your most immediate concern is possibly having to make a decision about the new job offer now.

Tim
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by muffins14 »

JoeRetire wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:58 am
cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm I have literally changed my mind 5 times over this weekend about accepting the offer. I just cannot decide.
If it was me, the fact that I couldn't decide would tell me that my gut says not to accept the offer.

But you'll get dozens of opinions here, from all different viewpoints. And the only ones that matter are yours and your wife's.

The only suggestion I can offer is this: think of the long term and not the immediate. You are only 32 - you have your whole life ahead of you.
The offer has already been accepted
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JoeRetire
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by JoeRetire »

cogito wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:31 pm Thanks for all the advice. I accepted the offer! Seemed unanimous not only here, but also guidance from friends and family. I already feel nervous but excited for the new challenge.
Good luck.

Consider seeking professional mental health help. Feeling burnt out at 32 isn't something most people experience. It isn't something you need to continue living with.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JDave
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by JDave »

Never make a momentous life move when "seriously burned out", because your judgement is impaired. Do whatever you need to do to recover, then think about making a decision.
adestefan
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by adestefan »

I know it’s too late, but I would have turned it down and gotten out of Dodge.

I had a similar dilemma at your age 10 years ago, turned them down, and am grateful that I did. Am I the happiest person everyday? Nope, but I’m happy to spend extra time with my kids everyday and have a pretty easy job.
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by markjk »

cogito wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:31 pm Thanks for all the advice. I accepted the offer! Seemed unanimous not only here, but also guidance from friends and family. I already feel nervous but excited for the new challenge.
What I've learned is the burn-out is usually a function of never turning off the job. It can always be in your head if you let it. Whether it's a challenging technical problem, business problem, people interaction problem, trying to learn (or create) a new language/DB/scripting language, etc. It will always be in your head if you let it. You are a high performer and therefore want to do everything perfect (most likely). That tends to drive people to constantly churn mentally on whatever is happening at work. Work then takes an overabundance of your work/life balance and burn-out ensues.

Try to acknowledge this is happening and see if you can find ways to shut down the work noise when you are not actively "working". What that means can certainly vary from person to person, especially with today's hybrid work environments. But, find ways to give yourself a notice to disconnect from work mentally. Try to get away from thinking about it all the time. Make sure to take time off (completely off) periodically. I know having a ton of saved up vacation time is like a badge of honor, but if you use your time off (no checking email) and can keep from burning out, you are more valuable to your company and you will have a much longer career. It really is a win/win. This is too much of a topic for a thread like this, but there are some great books out there. Try to read through a few. There are ways to deal with the burn-out but just like any other challenging "problem", it will take some work to improve.

I think taking the new job was the right move. Now the follow-up is to figure out how to handle the burn-out. Once the newness of the job wears off, you might be right back where you were if you don't address the mental fatigue issue.

Best of luck!
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by 59Gibson »

JoeRetire wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:11 am
cogito wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:31 pm Thanks for all the advice. I accepted the offer! Seemed unanimous not only here, but also guidance from friends and family. I already feel nervous but excited for the new challenge.
Good luck.

Consider seeking professional mental health help. Feeling burnt out at 32 isn't something most people experience. It isn't something you need to continue living with.
I agree. This isn't really a financial decision, you are 32 with $1million and currently saving 80k/ yr. Keep the long term in mind not just the next few years. You may find yourself in the same predicament in a yr or 2 after uprooting your family.
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Ramjet »

cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pm Bogleheads, I come to seek wisdom and guidance in yet another "is it worth it" thread

My wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. Single income (mine). We moved here after leaving the bay area 3 years ago because of cost of living. I have been slowly getting burned out of my current role as a Zoom manager in a fairly demanding WFH tech-adjacent role. The stress of Covid while raising toddlers has taken a big toll on us. We've talked a lot about "one more year, then take a break and move somewhere cheaper near family to recharge", but every week that goes by, I care a little less, and feel a little more burnt out and disengaged from my work obligations. My health has started to mildly suffer and coping mechanisms and behaviors have increased. I'm doing a decent job in my role, but sooner or later work performance will suffer more, and catch up with me, I can feel it happening. My current total comp is about 220-230k a year. Our net worth is 950k. 200k of that is home equity, with 700k on the mortgage at 2.5%, but we could sell fairly easily if we needed to. We invest about 80k a year after expenses. So we are comfortable, successful, like where we live, wouldn't mind staying, but my job is making me miserable. Options I have worked through include:

1. Quit/fired and take a sabbatical for a year, recharge, enjoy my little ones. I'll be able to get another job easily if I use the break to sharpen my skills, probably a little less than currently income, maybe 180-200kish.

2. Quit, move to LCOL near family, take a... longer sabbatical, start to freelance, take interesting contract work. Lower savings/standard of living, but we could do this indefinitely. Probably would never return to CA, but I can work remotely.

3. Seek other remote work while staying where we are. I'm not sure how much of my burnout is due to my current job vs. trying to do it remotely with toddlers at home for 2 years, but I think its a bit of both. I turned down one opportunity for 240k TC in tech, have another interesting one that may be 270k, but I'm worried that an intense new WFH job would make things seriously worse, not better.

4. After 2 months of interviews and negotiations, I have a formal offer on its way for a FAANG company at 340k total comp, but it would require us to move back to the south bay area (albeit with a hybrid work schedule and comfy bus rides in to work). I like the team, it seems like a healthy environment, and it would take our yearly savings from about 80k to 120k after the increased cost of living. Year 2 TC would likely be close to 400k, so its an incredible opportunity that I feel I will regret if I don't take. However, I have no energy right now, my skills are rusty, and I'm scared of it not working out. Maybe those fears are unfounded by the invigoration a new challenge and adventure will provide.

I have literally changed my mind 5 times over this weekend about accepting the offer. I just cannot decide. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game... but will I kick myself if I don't seize this opportunity? It could get us to some version of FIRE in 3-4 years, with the goals that we have. My wife and myself both came from lower-income backgrounds, it seems obvious to keep the foot on the gas and set up a new legacy for our own family. Has anybody else ever faced burnout from a fairly healthy job environment, and successfully switched jobs to cure it? Or taken a sabbatical while young, early 30's, and not regretted it? Is it obvious that I should jump at the opportunity, and then if it doesn't work, go back to option 1 or 2? Any guidance would be considered and listened to.
My vote is for the FAANG role which is a new environment that may actually energize you. If it doesn't work out then move closer to your family in the LCOL area. Even if it does work out, there is nothing wrong with doing it for a few years and then still moving to the LOCOL area
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by RickyGold »

OP,

I vote for the sabbatical to recharge and refresh yourself; but instead of taking a year off, just take 2-3 months off and enjoy the holidays. You can always start looking for your next job after the first of the year.

Good luck to you!
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by White Coat Investor »

soxfan10 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:21 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:32 pm
cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pmMy wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game...
What?

My thought is that if someone is burnt out in their early 30s they may be in the wrong career field. It's still super early. Why not look into changing careers? With a stay at home parent plus a work from home parent and only two kids it's hard for me to believe the issue is the kids. Trust me when I say it doesn't get any easier as they get older, especially if more come along to replace them in the toddler department.

I think you should take the job. It's time to make hay. You can always quit if it truly sucks.
This seems like a bit much... unless you have a much narrower definition of career than I. Its also a bit surprising coming from a doctor - there are a ton of attorney/doctor/consultant/i-banker burn-outs in their early to mid 30s after putting in 8-10 years. There's a reason the median tenure at a large law firm is ~3.5 years despite the huge compensation - some jobs are incredibly tiring and dont allow for a personal life. I had similar burn-out issues periodically in the 30-33 range while working as a consultant. I recently (~6 months ago) left for a different job (but same career) and almost all of the symptoms are gone six months later (although just starting to get some of the physical strength back).
If you're burned out at 30 as a doc or lawyer, you need a new career too. Shoot, most docs aren't even out of training at that point. it takes a serious FIRE person to be able to retire at that age, so what are you going to do? Life is too short to stay in a career you hate for decades.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
soxfan10
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by soxfan10 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:59 am
soxfan10 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:21 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:32 pm
cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pmMy wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game...
What?

My thought is that if someone is burnt out in their early 30s they may be in the wrong career field. It's still super early. Why not look into changing careers? With a stay at home parent plus a work from home parent and only two kids it's hard for me to believe the issue is the kids. Trust me when I say it doesn't get any easier as they get older, especially if more come along to replace them in the toddler department.

I think you should take the job. It's time to make hay. You can always quit if it truly sucks.
This seems like a bit much... unless you have a much narrower definition of career than I. Its also a bit surprising coming from a doctor - there are a ton of attorney/doctor/consultant/i-banker burn-outs in their early to mid 30s after putting in 8-10 years. There's a reason the median tenure at a large law firm is ~3.5 years despite the huge compensation - some jobs are incredibly tiring and dont allow for a personal life. I had similar burn-out issues periodically in the 30-33 range while working as a consultant. I recently (~6 months ago) left for a different job (but same career) and almost all of the symptoms are gone six months later (although just starting to get some of the physical strength back).
If you're burned out at 30 as a doc or lawyer, you need a new career too. Shoot, most docs aren't even out of training at that point. it takes a serious FIRE person to be able to retire at that age, so what are you going to do? Life is too short to stay in a career you hate for decades.
You move to a different job with different hours. Can still be the same career, but maybe we're talking past each other.
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by White Coat Investor »

soxfan10 wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:59 am
soxfan10 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:21 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:32 pm
cogito wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:15 pmMy wife and I are 32, with a 3 and 2 year old, currently living in MCOL outside of LA. I don't want to move back to the bay area, seems like a young mans game...
What?

My thought is that if someone is burnt out in their early 30s they may be in the wrong career field. It's still super early. Why not look into changing careers? With a stay at home parent plus a work from home parent and only two kids it's hard for me to believe the issue is the kids. Trust me when I say it doesn't get any easier as they get older, especially if more come along to replace them in the toddler department.

I think you should take the job. It's time to make hay. You can always quit if it truly sucks.
This seems like a bit much... unless you have a much narrower definition of career than I. Its also a bit surprising coming from a doctor - there are a ton of attorney/doctor/consultant/i-banker burn-outs in their early to mid 30s after putting in 8-10 years. There's a reason the median tenure at a large law firm is ~3.5 years despite the huge compensation - some jobs are incredibly tiring and dont allow for a personal life. I had similar burn-out issues periodically in the 30-33 range while working as a consultant. I recently (~6 months ago) left for a different job (but same career) and almost all of the symptoms are gone six months later (although just starting to get some of the physical strength back).
If you're burned out at 30 as a doc or lawyer, you need a new career too. Shoot, most docs aren't even out of training at that point. it takes a serious FIRE person to be able to retire at that age, so what are you going to do? Life is too short to stay in a career you hate for decades.
You move to a different job with different hours. Can still be the same career, but maybe we're talking past each other.
I agree that's an option.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Stick5vw
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Re: Seriously conflicted about incredible career opportunity, while currently burned out.

Post by Stick5vw »

Congrats on taking the new job. We’re you able to negotiate for any additional time out before starting? If your battery feels like it is running on empty, you’ve got to do something about that before starting. Not to mention you ensure some work/life boundaries once you begin. Otherwise this burnout feeling will not go away anytime soon.
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