After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
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Bogle64Pilot
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After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by Bogle64Pilot »

1. Vanguard brokerage account and IRAs: zero issues flawless albeit very “old school” where majority has to be done through US postal mail for the account ownership change. Retirement account beneficiary designation updates were done online with zero issues.

2. Fidelity brokerage account: after submitting all the required documents digitally they said my certification of trust did not include all the legally necessary items. Their back office legal apparently didn’t understand there is a different between the location of the notary acknowledgement vs the situs of the trust. They just saw where the certification of trust was notarized and assumed that was the trust’s situs, instead of reading the certification. Once that was squared away over the phone in 2 days the account ownership was changed.

3. USAA: absolute joke of a financial services company. They don’t do trust checking / savings accounts anymore which is fine by me. To simply add a POD I’ve spent over 3 hours on the phone and they are completely lost as to the process. They’ve sent me the same signature card 4 times now and I have to reupload the same exact signature card to their online system. No changes to the signature card, but have to re-upload for some bureaucratic reason. They still can’t figure it out and now they want me to fill out their memorandum of trust since my certification of trust is not sufficient for them. They want to know the grantors, trustees, and successor trustee all of which are reasonable. However, they also want to know all beneficiaries desginated after the grantors’ death how the trust in percentage is distributed to them under what conditions, etc. I find this is completely unnecessary as the successor trustee has the responsibility to distribute the trust per the terms of the trust instrument and it is no business of USAA’s. So I refuse to fill out their memorandum. I’ve opened a checking account with a regional bank in my area with my certification of trust and it took 15 minutes. Insurance updates to add the trust as additional insured was easy and that process is done online.

Overall funding the trust has been a seamless process minus USAA. I know some people pay extra for their attorney to help fund their trust, but I do not think it is necessary. You can fund the trust with minimal time or effort with the majority of the large financial players.
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David Jay
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by David Jay »

It sounds like you are doing a good job. Our trust attorney says that the most common error with trusts is failure to fund them properly. The firm has a group of para-legals who follow up to confirm that the funding has been done.
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jgalt133
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by jgalt133 »

Bogle64Pilot wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:50 am 3. USAA: absolute joke of a financial services company. They don’t do trust checking / savings accounts anymore which is fine by me. To simply add a POD I’ve spent over 3 hours on the phone and they are completely lost as to the process. They’ve sent me the same signature card 4 times now and I have to reupload the same exact signature card to their online system. No changes to the signature card, but have to re-upload for some bureaucratic reason. They still can’t figure it out and now they want me to fill out their memorandum of trust since my certification of trust is not sufficient for them. They want to know the grantors, trustees, and successor trustee all of which are reasonable. However, they also want to know all beneficiaries desginated after the grantors’ death how the trust in percentage is distributed to them under what conditions, etc. I find this is completely unnecessary as the successor trustee has the responsibility to distribute the trust per the terms of the trust instrument and it is no business of USAA’s. So I refuse to fill out their memorandum. I’ve opened a checking account with a regional bank in my area with my certification of trust and it took 15 minutes. Insurance updates to add the trust as additional insured was easy and that process is done online.
What did you end up doing with your USAA savings/checkings account? I have run into the same issue as I need to fund my trust as well. I currently have my main savings/checkings account with them and use USAA for umbrella and property insurance. The umbrella and property insurance update was very smooth (except they kept mis-stating the name of the trust).
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Bogle64Pilot
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by Bogle64Pilot »

jgalt133 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:07 pm
Bogle64Pilot wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:50 am 3. USAA: absolute joke of a financial services company. They don’t do trust checking / savings accounts anymore which is fine by me. To simply add a POD I’ve spent over 3 hours on the phone and they are completely lost as to the process. They’ve sent me the same signature card 4 times now and I have to reupload the same exact signature card to their online system. No changes to the signature card, but have to re-upload for some bureaucratic reason. They still can’t figure it out and now they want me to fill out their memorandum of trust since my certification of trust is not sufficient for them. They want to know the grantors, trustees, and successor trustee all of which are reasonable. However, they also want to know all beneficiaries desginated after the grantors’ death how the trust in percentage is distributed to them under what conditions, etc. I find this is completely unnecessary as the successor trustee has the responsibility to distribute the trust per the terms of the trust instrument and it is no business of USAA’s. So I refuse to fill out their memorandum. I’ve opened a checking account with a regional bank in my area with my certification of trust and it took 15 minutes. Insurance updates to add the trust as additional insured was easy and that process is done online.
What did you end up doing with your USAA savings/checkings account? I have run into the same issue as I need to fund my trust as well. I currently have my main savings/checkings account with them and use USAA for umbrella and property insurance. The umbrella and property insurance update was very smooth (except they kept mis-stating the name of the trust).
Still to this day (4 months later) they are sending me the exact same signature card and it’s going nowhere. I have transferred all my checking and savings over to Fidelity CMA. It’s a night and day difference. Fidelity is amazing with their personalized customer service getting everything set up seamlessly. Fidelity only asks the names of the beneficiaries for the FDIC insurance, but nothing else. The fact USAA wants the percentages allocated to each beneficiary and under what terms it’s distributed is unnecessary and frankly I refuse to do so. Zero regrets switching to Fidelity after I’ve lost all faith in USAA, atleast their banking services. I’m keeping their insurance products.
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celia
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by celia »

In all fairness to USAA, didn’t you “get the memo” a little over a year ago that Schwab was taking over USAA’s brokerage accounts?

https://communities.usaa.com/t5/USAA-Ne ... a-p/231441

It sounds like your efforts there fell between the cracks. Start by making sure you are calling the current correct phone number.


We had our trust first created before the internet existed. Our lawyer had sample letters for each kind of brokerage, insurance, pension plan, etc. to have our accounts retitled properly. Knowing some of the sample letters would be used more than once, I start making copies and sent in the copies to places where we had accounts. All the letters went out in a few days and replies were all received within a month.
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Bogle64Pilot
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by Bogle64Pilot »

celia wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:09 am In all fairness to USAA, didn’t you “get the memo” a little over a year ago that Schwab was taking over USAA’s brokerage accounts?

https://communities.usaa.com/t5/USAA-Ne ... a-p/231441

It sounds like your efforts there fell between the cracks. Start by making sure you are calling the current correct phone number.


We had our trust first created before the internet existed. Our lawyer had sample letters for each kind of brokerage, insurance, pension plan, etc. to have our accounts retitled properly. Knowing some of the sample letters would be used more than once, I start making copies and sent in the copies to places where we had accounts. All the letters went out in a few days and replies were all received within a month.
You should probably read my OP a little closer before criticizing. USAA checking / savings…I never once mentioned brokerage.
BlackStrat
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by BlackStrat »

Instead of titling a fund in the name of the trust, is it possible to simply list the trust as the primary beneficiary for each fund?
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Bogle64Pilot
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by Bogle64Pilot »

BlackStrat wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:31 am Instead of titling a fund in the name of the trust, is it possible to simply list the trust as the primary beneficiary for each fund?
That’s what a POD is effectively on a checking or savings account.
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WoodSpinner
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by WoodSpinner »

BlackStrat wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:31 am Instead of titling a fund in the name of the trust, is it possible to simply list the trust as the primary beneficiary for each fund?
For a Living Trust, a PoD deprives the trustees of key functionality. It’s not equivalent nor should it be acceptable.

For instance, it will not allow the Trustee to manage the assets in the account due to incapacity of some sort — which is a very significant risk for most of us.

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Kagord
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by Kagord »

Best just to switch out of USAA completely, and of benefit, this will cash out the subscribers account.
jgalt133
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by jgalt133 »

WoodSpinner wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:19 pm
BlackStrat wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:31 am Instead of titling a fund in the name of the trust, is it possible to simply list the trust as the primary beneficiary for each fund?
For a Living Trust, a PoD deprives the trustees of key functionality. It’s not equivalent nor should it be acceptable.

For instance, it will not allow the Trustee to manage the assets in the account due to incapacity of some sort — which is a very significant risk for most of us.
Exactly. If your bank accounts are PoD, but you have other accounts titled in the name of the trust (e.g., a brokerage account), then the trustee would have to dip into the brokerage account in the event of incapacity (e.g., for medical expenses) since they could not access the cash accounts.
jgalt133
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by jgalt133 »

Kagord wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:39 pm Best just to switch out of USAA completely, and of benefit, this will cash out the subscribers account.
They have very good insurance, so I would at least keep that part. I know some Bogleheads argue that the insurance is overpriced but USAA does have a good reputation for paying out. I'd rather pay more for insurance that actually works than pay less for insurance in name only.
jgalt133
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by jgalt133 »

I'm curious about the issue with I-bonds and trusts. I am seriously considering purchasing some I-bonds given their interest rates. If I open up accounts for me and my wife, I would simply set up the trust as the beneficiary, right? Has anyone had an issue with this? Also, I believe I can open up a third account in the name of the trust to purchase even more I-bonds, right?
Lee_WSP
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

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BrokerageZelda
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by BrokerageZelda »

jgalt133 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:29 pm I'm curious about the issue with I-bonds and trusts. I am seriously considering purchasing some I-bonds given their interest rates. If I open up accounts for me and my wife, I would simply set up the trust as the beneficiary, right? Has anyone had an issue with this? Also, I believe I can open up a third account in the name of the trust to purchase even more I-bonds, right?
Trust TD accounts cannot be beneficiaries of I Bonds, only individual TD accounts.

Beneficiaries on electronic I Bonds in individual accounts can be modified at any time, so it's okay for you and your wife to name each other at first, and change the beneficiaries later if necessary.

Yes, you can purchase $10k a year in a TD account opened in the name of a revocable trust, on top of the $10k a year in individual accounts. Many people on Bogleheads have done this for years. You cannot name beneficiaries of bonds in a TD trust account; it's expected that inheritance will be handled through the terms of the trust itself.
jgalt133
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by jgalt133 »

BrokerageZelda wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:09 pm Beneficiaries on electronic I Bonds in individual accounts can be modified at any time, so it's okay for you and your wife to name each other at first, and change the beneficiaries later if necessary.
Can you have the spouse as primary beneficiary and trust as secondary/contingent? It looks like you can, but the wording on the TD FAQ is a bit convoluted.
BrokerageZelda
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by BrokerageZelda »

jgalt133 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:29 pm
BrokerageZelda wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:09 pm Beneficiaries on electronic I Bonds in individual accounts can be modified at any time, so it's okay for you and your wife to name each other at first, and change the beneficiaries later if necessary.
Can you have the spouse as primary beneficiary and trust as secondary/contingent? It looks like you can, but the wording on the TD FAQ is a bit convoluted.
Electronic I Bonds in individual accounts are not capable of having secondary beneficiaries, only one individual (non-trust) beneficiary at a time.

It is possible to transfer previously purchased I Bonds from your personal account into a revocable trust account that you are trustee of, to take advantage of the more flexible beneficiary terms of the trust. Keep in mind that TD will still nail you for buying over the limit if you try to buy $10k in both accounts in the same year and move the personal $10k into the trust (people have tried).
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celia
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by celia »

Bogle64Pilot wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:12 am You should probably read my OP a little closer before criticizing. USAA checking / savings…I never once mentioned brokerage.
You talked about opening brokerage accounts at two other places. Then you said USAA doesn’t do trust savings and checking accounts. What other trust account could you be opening there if not a brokerage account?
miket29
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by miket29 »

Bogle64Pilot wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:50 am 1. Vanguard brokerage account and IRAs: zero issues flawless albeit very “old school” where majority has to be done through US postal mail for the account ownership change. Retirement account beneficiary designation updates were done online with zero issues.
I did this earlier this year and was able to create a new trust account and transfer my regular brokerage assets into it all online. I wrote about it in this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=201593&p=5904367#p5904367
notPatience
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Re: After Action Review Funding My Revocable Living Trust

Post by notPatience »

3. USAA: absolute joke of a financial services company....
...they want me to fill out their memorandum of trust since my certification of trust is not sufficient for them. They want to know the grantors, trustees, and successor trustee all of which are reasonable. However, they also want to know all beneficiaries desginated after the grantors’ death how the trust in percentage is distributed to them under what conditions, etc. I find this is completely unnecessary as the successor trustee has the responsibility to distribute the trust per the terms of the trust instrument and it is no business of USAA’s.
The fact USAA wants the percentages allocated to each beneficiary and under what terms it’s distributed is unnecessary and frankly I refuse to do so. Zero regrets switching to Fidelity after I’ve lost all faith in USAA, atleast their banking services. I’m keeping their insurance products.
USAA not only continues this onerous policy, but I'm told by "CEO office" complaint taker that USAA execs reconfirmed the 11-page Memorandum of Trust a year ago. That's with there being a loooong thread going 4-5 years in their community forum hating on this policy.

Chase, Schwab, Ally, Vanguard all done easily online. USAA demands an 11-page form be filled out with details of the trust and its beneficiaries as OP detailed. Same form for POD. My estate lawyer said in 25 years of practice she'd never seen any thing remotely that invasive for making a trust a beneficiary.

I tried. I really, really tried to stay with USAA banking (been there at least 20 years.) Probably have spent 15+ hours just on hold about this. It took 3 phone calls to get the MOT in the first place, only to discover how onerous it was. Multiple more phone calls to determine that USAA requires same form for POD. Went up the food chain. When I reached the "CEO office" level, they said they'd have banking expert call me back. My only request was it be after noon. They called at 8-something am. Then never available again at that extension -- tried 8-10 times over 2+ weeks. Never got a call back from that person. Got a msg from someone else in "CEO office" who left no extension number ... leaving me only the joy of going through the phone tree with attendant wait times. Called an exec (not banking), who did get the "CEO office" to call again, finally.

Upshot of that call is that USAA knows members hate that policy and too bad, because that's the policy, reconfirmed a year ago.

So very sad at USAA's decline to substandard.

Off to read posts on bank recs, will be closing multiple checking, savings accounts and CC when checks run down.
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