Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

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dodecahedron
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Re: Why do many people owe the IRS taxes?

Post by dodecahedron »

mrsgoldilocks wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:17 am
2) if your main source of income is W2, it is in fact quite easy to "estimate" your next year tax, plus, you know how your capital gain is etc etc. You can simply use last year's tax software and quickly plug in your numbers so you know if you will be short or not. Yes, tax brackets may change but it usually won't be that off.
It is not always so easy, sadly.

Unfortunately, our VITA site sees many folks whose main source of income is W-2 wages, but it can be quite difficult to project their next year's tax. That is because our taxpayers are often in multiple part-time jobs with very uncertain and highly variable hours due to factors outside their control. They might have a lot of overtime or they might have hours drastically cut.

They may also be quite uncertain about how many dependents they will be eligible to claim because the dependent rules can be quite complex and their older teen or young adult dependents may not be keeping their parents informed about their earnings, how they are spending them and whether they might be paying for more than half of their own support, whether they are maintaining fulltime student status as defined by their postsecondary institution, etc. This can also make the parents uncertain about their own filing status (Single or HoH) and/or their ability to claim various types of credits for their dependents.

Effective marginal tax rates can be extremely high and variable due to phaseouts, phase-ins, and cliff effects of many credits and other tax provisions affecting low and moderate income taxpayers, so the unpredictable nature of the income stream can translate into an even more unpredictable tax liability.
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Re: Why do many people owe the IRS taxes?

Post by Trader Joe »

userwithconcern wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:34 pm Just trying to understand. I hear lots of ordinary people owe the IRS taxes. Are there other taxes that ordinary people owe to the the IRS, other than the federal income tax, calculated as per the table on page 7 of the following IRS link:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf

On top of this, I know of the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) and the 3.8% Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT), and also of the Social Security Payroll Tax and the Medicare Payroll Tax (FICA taxes). Are there other taxes the IRS collects from ordinary people?

My knowledge of the tax system is very poor, and I want to make sure I am not owing any taxes to the IRS. Are there other taxes that the IRS collects from individuals usually (I do not mean in very special circumstances, just typical people)?
How much do you owe the IRS?
desconhecido
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Re: Why do many people owe the IRS taxes?

Post by desconhecido »

RickBoglehead wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:21 am
userwithconcern wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:34 pm Just trying to understand. I hear lots of ordinary people owe the IRS taxes. Are there other taxes that ordinary people owe to the the IRS, other than the federal income tax, calculated as per the table on page 7 of the following IRS link:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040es.pdf

On top of this, I know of the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) and the 3.8% Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT), and also of the Social Security Payroll Tax and the Medicare Payroll Tax (FICA taxes). Are there other taxes the IRS collects from ordinary people?

My knowledge of the tax system is very poor, and I want to make sure I am not owing any taxes to the IRS. Are there other taxes that the IRS collects from individuals usually (I do not mean in very special circumstances, just typical people)?
...
Many people are simply poor financial and tax planners. They over withhold on their paychecks, having no idea how much tax they're going to owe in April, but wanting "a refund". Of course it's their money coming back, but they're pretty clueless and have that _____ in mind to buy with the free money.
...

If you do solid financial planning, you aim to not pay one penny more than you have to, and if you will owe money you have it available. Getting a refund simply shows either the inability to plan taxes, or to budget money.

...
Or, perhaps if one overpays it just doesn't matter much. If $400 too much is withheld each month, the foregone interest rate is 2%, and the refund is received on April 1 the following year, well that's a whopping $68.51 lost. Every year! And, if one is so inclined, the refund can be in those I bond things. Don't have to spend a bit of time worrying about $68.51 and I bonds ensue. No planning and a win, win.
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Re: Why do many people owe the IRS taxes?

Post by RickBoglehead »

desconhecido wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:09 am
Or, perhaps if one overpays it just doesn't matter much. If $400 too much is withheld each month, the foregone interest rate is 2%, and the refund is received on April 1 the following year, well that's a whopping $68.51 lost. Every year! And, if one is so inclined, the refund can be in those I bond things. Don't have to spend a bit of time worrying about $68.51 and I bonds ensue. No planning and a win, win.
It matters because:

- many tax refunds are thousands more
- many need that money today, not in April
- many use it as "savings", but then spend it irrationally. So both the refund, and the spending, show a lack of control over financial affairs
- most have a refund due to a lack of knowledge
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desconhecido
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Re: Why do many people owe the IRS taxes?

Post by desconhecido »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:35 am
desconhecido wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:09 am
Or, perhaps if one overpays it just doesn't matter much. If $400 too much is withheld each month, the foregone interest rate is 2%, and the refund is received on April 1 the following year, well that's a whopping $68.51 lost. Every year! And, if one is so inclined, the refund can be in those I bond things. Don't have to spend a bit of time worrying about $68.51 and I bonds ensue. No planning and a win, win.
It matters because:

- many tax refunds are thousands more
- many need that money today, not in April
- many use it as "savings", but then spend it irrationally. So both the refund, and the spending, show a lack of control over financial affairs
- most have a refund due to a lack of knowledge
Don't want to be contentious or gratuitously judgemental, so I'll just let this pass.
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Re: Why do many people owe the IRS taxes?

Post by SQRT »

One reason, I usually owe taxes on filing relates to dividends. These are a significant portion of my income and have generally been increasing by about 5-8% per year (not recently though). No tax is paid on the divs when received. Since my required tax instalments are based on previous income, I will generally owe tax on the increase in my divs each year. Also, if I decide to sell some stock and realize cap gains this may not have been captured in the instalment requirements.

(Note: I’m Canadian so there may be differences in how this works, but in theory I think the basic concepts are the same).
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userwithconcern
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Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by userwithconcern »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Are there federal taxes that an individual pays to the IRS, not captured on the "total tax" line on form 1040 (line 24 on the 2020 form 1040)?

For example, filed through a different return or some other manner, such that it does not eventually feed into the total tax line on form 1040?

I am just trying to make sure that I am not missing a federal tax.
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by Gill »

No, you are not missing anything. That line represents your total income tax. Of course, there are many other federal taxes other than the income tax which you probably don’t need to be concerned about.
Gill
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by RickBoglehead »

Answered in OP's other thread, several times.
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Re: Why do many people owe the IRS taxes?

Post by LadyGeek »

userwithconcern - In order to give appropriate advice, it's best to keep all the info in one spot. I merged your update back into the original question.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided the link.)
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userwithconcern
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by userwithconcern »

Gill wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm No, you are not missing anything. That line represents your total income tax. Of course, there are many other federal taxes other than the income tax which you probably don’t need to be concerned about.
Gill
Are there any taxes not captured on the "total tax" line of form 1040 that individuals would need to worry about? Can you talk more about the other taxes?
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by cashheavy18 »

userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:22 pm
Gill wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm No, you are not missing anything. That line represents your total income tax. Of course, there are many other federal taxes other than the income tax which you probably don’t need to be concerned about.
Gill
Are there any taxes not captured on the "total tax" line of form 1040 that individuals would need to worry about? Can you talk more about the other taxes?
Reading through this thread, I'm still confused by your repeated question. Use a tax software (like TurboTax), answer all of their questions for 2020, you'll see what taxes you owe and what they are.
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userwithconcern
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by userwithconcern »

cashheavy18 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:23 pm
userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:22 pm
Gill wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm No, you are not missing anything. That line represents your total income tax. Of course, there are many other federal taxes other than the income tax which you probably don’t need to be concerned about.
Gill
Are there any taxes not captured on the "total tax" line of form 1040 that individuals would need to worry about? Can you talk more about the other taxes?
Reading through this thread, I'm still confused by your repeated question. Use a tax software (like TurboTax), answer all of their questions for 2020, you'll see what taxes you owe and what they are.
I think (correct me if I am wrong) tax software usually only fills out taxes that eventually get included in the "total tax" line of form 1040. I am just trying to understand if there are any federal taxes not captured on this line, that individuals might need to pay.
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by Gill »

62 posts and everyone is still confused about what you are asking. All the input for your income tax return ends up on the total tax line. Yes, there are other federal taxes such as excise taxes and gasoline taxes but you file only one income tax return reflecting tour total income less allowable deductions.
Gill
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by MarkNYC »

userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:36 pm [Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Are there federal taxes that an individual pays to the IRS, not captured on the "total tax" line on form 1040 (line 24 on the 2020 form 1040)?

For example, filed through a different return or some other manner, such that it does not eventually feed into the total tax line on form 1040?

I am just trying to make sure that I am not missing a federal tax.
For the average, ordinary taxpayer, whether working or retired, line 24 of Form 1040 includes all of the federal taxes that will be owed annually.

For some taxpayers, there is one tax that should be included on line 24 that is often omitted, which is additional tax on IRAs (Form 5329). This tax could be (1) 6% tax on excess contributions, (2) 10% tax on early distributions, or (3) 50% tax on failure to take Required Minimum Distributions. The 10% tax is usually detected by the tax return software, or later by the IRS. The other two are rarely detected by the IRS, so it becomes a back tax that can accumulate unknowingly and unintentionally for multiple years, with no statute of limitations.

The IRS has discretion to waive the 50% additional tax, which it usually does, but has no similar discretion for the other taxes on Form 5329. So aside from failing to file and pay annual income tax, omitting the "additional tax on IRAs" is probably the area where otherwise compliant taxpayers most often get into trouble regarding "back taxes."
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by tj »

userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:17 pm
cashheavy18 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:23 pm
userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:22 pm
Gill wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm No, you are not missing anything. That line represents your total income tax. Of course, there are many other federal taxes other than the income tax which you probably don’t need to be concerned about.
Gill
Are there any taxes not captured on the "total tax" line of form 1040 that individuals would need to worry about? Can you talk more about the other taxes?
Reading through this thread, I'm still confused by your repeated question. Use a tax software (like TurboTax), answer all of their questions for 2020, you'll see what taxes you owe and what they are.
I think (correct me if I am wrong) tax software usually only fills out taxes that eventually get included in the "total tax" line of form 1040. I am just trying to understand if there are any federal taxes not captured on this line, that individuals might need to pay.
WHY? Can you not explain to us why this question is relevant to your personal finances? If it's not, I think the thread is off topic?
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by HootingSloth »

userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:17 pm
cashheavy18 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:23 pm
userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:22 pm
Gill wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm No, you are not missing anything. That line represents your total income tax. Of course, there are many other federal taxes other than the income tax which you probably don’t need to be concerned about.
Gill
Are there any taxes not captured on the "total tax" line of form 1040 that individuals would need to worry about? Can you talk more about the other taxes?
Reading through this thread, I'm still confused by your repeated question. Use a tax software (like TurboTax), answer all of their questions for 2020, you'll see what taxes you owe and what they are.
I think (correct me if I am wrong) tax software usually only fills out taxes that eventually get included in the "total tax" line of form 1040. I am just trying to understand if there are any federal taxes not captured on this line, that individuals might need to pay.
I mentioned this above, but not sure if you ignored it or just decided it didn't apply to your situation. One federal tax that occasionally applies to "ordinary" people, but would not be included in the total tax line of Form 1040, is the employer's share of FICA payroll taxes. Sometimes people do not realize that they are the employer of certain household workers. You can read more here. Hard for me to think of anything else that is likely to meet your description. People generally don't end up owing back taxes because there is some other tax that they never heard about but, instead, because they just complete their tax return incorrectly.
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by MJS »

1040 Tax forms are written in Govermentese, an obscure variant of English. The forms assume a level of financial and legal knowledge that isn't universal. Making mistakes is common. That means the Taxes Due can be wrong.

For example, I inherited money from my grandmother. I spent it and was grateful. I filed my 1040 and saw no place to declare an inheritance. A few months later, the IRS sent me a scary letter saying, approximately, "You criminal! You did not declare your Taxable IRA distributions! Send money or we will get you!" I was so confused: what IRA distribution? But, of course, my inheritance had been from her IRA.

Another example -- during Covid, many people were the victims of unemployment fraud. They are now receiving letters asking "Why didn't you declare your unemployment payments?" Of course, they never received any such payments. They will have to file disputes with the IRS.

The 1040 Tax Due line reflects what was entered on the form. Typos, forgetfulness, being a victim of fraud, or just confusion can mean that Yes, there may be more taxes due, or that must be disputed.
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by gobel »

tj wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:04 pm
userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:17 pm
cashheavy18 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:23 pm
userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:22 pm
Gill wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm No, you are not missing anything. That line represents your total income tax. Of course, there are many other federal taxes other than the income tax which you probably don’t need to be concerned about.
Gill
Are there any taxes not captured on the "total tax" line of form 1040 that individuals would need to worry about? Can you talk more about the other taxes?
Reading through this thread, I'm still confused by your repeated question. Use a tax software (like TurboTax), answer all of their questions for 2020, you'll see what taxes you owe and what they are.
I think (correct me if I am wrong) tax software usually only fills out taxes that eventually get included in the "total tax" line of form 1040. I am just trying to understand if there are any federal taxes not captured on this line, that individuals might need to pay.
WHY? Can you not explain to us why this question is relevant to your personal finances? If it's not, I think the thread is off topic?
It's not exactly OP's question, but I guess there are many cases where you have to know to find the right form or TurboTax question to answer so that the right income is included on your 1040 taxes. Eg. imputed income, barter income, tax on missed RMDs, unreported 1099s below the $600 limit (eg bank promos, forgiven debt), QDIV adjustments for holding periods, correcting basis on 1099-B sales, wash sales (across accounts), etc. For CA, you have to enter income from HSA investments (I think TT does ask for this now).

I'm sure there are a lot more of these things that people might not even realize need to be entered and end up not paying taxes on.
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by fyre4ce »

Typically the types of tax most Americans owe are:
  • Federal income tax. It may be simple or complex to calculate, depending on your situation. We can get into the details if have questions, but it sounds like you're asking about taxes other than appear on Form 1040, so that's why I made this list.
  • Federal payroll (or FICA) tax. You can read about it here. Sole proprietors pay payroll tax on Form 1040 Schedule SE, and others pay it through their paychecks.
  • State income tax, if applicable.
  • Local (eg. city) income tax, if applicable.
  • Property tax. You pay it directly if you own taxable property like land, a house, or in some states a car. You can also pay it indirectly, for example, if the cost is baked into your rent.
  • Sales tax on many purchases.
  • Estate tax, after you die (technically paid by your estate, not you). With the current exemptions of $11.7M for an individual or $23.4M for a married couple, most Americans will not pay any estate tax. Some states also have an estate tax, in some cases with a lower limit.
  • Gift tax, if you make taxable gifts and have already used up your lifetime exemption. Even fewer will pay gift tax than estate tax.
  • Inheritance tax imposed by some states on the recipients of bequeathed assets. There is no federal inheritance tax.
That's all I can think of now. You specifically said "individuals" but there are some business taxes too. C-corporations pay a corporate tax on retained earnings, and some states charge businesses additional taxes on profits, which can act like an individual tax if you own 100% of a small business.

Did that help?
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by aristotelian »

Wouldn't you know it if you owe the IRS money?
Hyperchicken
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by Hyperchicken »

Self-employment tax was mentioned by a few posters above. Just wanted to clarify - while SE tax is separate from the income tax, SE tax is still included into Form 1040 line 24 total tax.

Note on line 23:
23 Other taxes, including self-employment tax, from Schedule 2, line 10
This then gets rolled into line 24.
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by userwithconcern »

MarkNYC wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:37 pm
userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:36 pm [Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Are there federal taxes that an individual pays to the IRS, not captured on the "total tax" line on form 1040 (line 24 on the 2020 form 1040)?

For example, filed through a different return or some other manner, such that it does not eventually feed into the total tax line on form 1040?

I am just trying to make sure that I am not missing a federal tax.
For the average, ordinary taxpayer, whether working or retired, line 24 of Form 1040 includes all of the federal taxes that will be owed annually.

For some taxpayers, there is one tax that should be included on line 24 that is often omitted, which is additional tax on IRAs (Form 5329). This tax could be (1) 6% tax on excess contributions, (2) 10% tax on early distributions, or (3) 50% tax on failure to take Required Minimum Distributions. The 10% tax is usually detected by the tax return software, or later by the IRS. The other two are rarely detected by the IRS, so it becomes a back tax that can accumulate unknowingly and unintentionally for multiple years, with no statute of limitations.

The IRS has discretion to waive the 50% additional tax, which it usually does, but has no similar discretion for the other taxes on Form 5329. So aside from failing to file and pay annual income tax, omitting the "additional tax on IRAs" is probably the area where otherwise compliant taxpayers most often get into trouble regarding "back taxes."
Thanks Mark for responding. To be sure, in my question, I was assuming all of the taxes listed in the "Other taxes" list on page 107 of the Publication 17 PDF file are included as required in the "total tax" box on form 1040.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p17.pdf

Can I ask if there are other forms that more advanced tax payers may need to consider also? I don't know what "more advanced" might mean, but I am just trying to understand if there are other forms I should look at also. Thanks!
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by RickBoglehead »

userwithconcern wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:25 pm
MarkNYC wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:37 pm
userwithconcern wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:36 pm [Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Are there federal taxes that an individual pays to the IRS, not captured on the "total tax" line on form 1040 (line 24 on the 2020 form 1040)?

For example, filed through a different return or some other manner, such that it does not eventually feed into the total tax line on form 1040?

I am just trying to make sure that I am not missing a federal tax.
For the average, ordinary taxpayer, whether working or retired, line 24 of Form 1040 includes all of the federal taxes that will be owed annually.

For some taxpayers, there is one tax that should be included on line 24 that is often omitted, which is additional tax on IRAs (Form 5329). This tax could be (1) 6% tax on excess contributions, (2) 10% tax on early distributions, or (3) 50% tax on failure to take Required Minimum Distributions. The 10% tax is usually detected by the tax return software, or later by the IRS. The other two are rarely detected by the IRS, so it becomes a back tax that can accumulate unknowingly and unintentionally for multiple years, with no statute of limitations.

The IRS has discretion to waive the 50% additional tax, which it usually does, but has no similar discretion for the other taxes on Form 5329. So aside from failing to file and pay annual income tax, omitting the "additional tax on IRAs" is probably the area where otherwise compliant taxpayers most often get into trouble regarding "back taxes."
Thanks Mark for responding. To be sure, in my question, I was assuming all of the taxes listed in the "Other taxes" list on page 107 of the Publication 17 PDF file are included as required in the "total tax" box on form 1040.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p17.pdf

Can I ask if there are other forms that more advanced tax payers may need to consider also? I don't know what "more advanced" might mean, but I am just trying to understand if there are other forms I should look at also. Thanks!
How many times can you be told no?

Buy TurboTax. Do your taxes. You'll see every form that exists, and what forms the software picks.

You pay federal income tax, social security tax, and Medicare tax. Done.
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userwithconcern
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by userwithconcern »

RickBoglehead wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:32 pm
How many times can you be told no?

Buy TurboTax. Do your taxes. You'll see every form that exists, and what forms the software picks.

You pay federal income tax, social security tax, and Medicare tax. Done.
Thanks for the comment Rick. Mark stated that form 1040 is sufficient for "the average, ordinary taxpayer". Given his words, I was just curious to know if there were other forms he was thinking of also, that might be worth for me to look into, to see if they applied.

As I believe I noted above, I have only ever been able to get tax software to calculate taxes that get included on the "total tax" line of form 1040.
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by tj »

userwithconcern wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:45 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:32 pm
How many times can you be told no?

Buy TurboTax. Do your taxes. You'll see every form that exists, and what forms the software picks.

You pay federal income tax, social security tax, and Medicare tax. Done.
Thanks for the comment Rick. Mark stated that form 1040 is sufficient for "the average, ordinary taxpayer". Given his words, I was just curious to know if there were other forms he was thinking of also, that might be worth for me to look into, to see if they applied.

As I believe I noted above, I have only ever been able to get tax software to calculate taxes that get included on the "total tax" line of form 1040.
Why would they apply to you? Why do you think you are not an "average, ordinary taxpayer" ?
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by ivk5 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:32 pm How many times can you be told no?
Suspect there’s something behind the apparent A/B problem that quickly takes this thread outside forum rules: either political (thread lock) or medical (seek professional counseling, thread lock).
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Re: Are there federal taxes paid by individuals other than form 1040 line "total tax"?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted). See: Locked Topics
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Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
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