Loans for Medical school

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skor99
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Loans for Medical school

Post by skor99 »

Has Is anybody aware of some site or sites where there is comprehensive information about loans for Med school ? Has anybody personally taken loans for their kids ?
If so, are there loans available for the full tuition for four years ? Also, do the loans require co-signers or co-sponsors ?

Thanks
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by White Coat Investor »

First, let the future doctor borrow, not the future doctor's parent.

Second, you generally want to max out federal loans before taking out any private loans. You may refinance those later, but for various reasons best to start with them being federal.

So that makes the process pretty darn straightforward. Figure out how much will be needed and if that is less than the feds will loan, borrow that much from them. If you need more than it can start getting more complicated.

First $20,500 a year is a direct unsubsidized federal loan.
The rest (up to the school's published cost of attendance) is a "Graduate PLUS" loan.

Both are about 5.3% right now.

https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans
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mrsgoldilocks
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by mrsgoldilocks »

Since you didn't mention any specific details on your finances, it is hard to give the best best opinion.

But as someone with inlaws and parents in their 70s, while I'm in my early 40s with a young kid. Here are some thoughts:

1. I will not support my kids' med. school if I have to take out a loan for it. Yes, I plan to support his undergrad and I have already setup a 529 for it. But after that, If I'm loaded, and have millions in my taxable, yes, I am gladly to support. If not, i think it's reasonable not to get myself into debt for it.
2. My parents paid for my college and I came out of collage without any student loan, and I am forever grateful for it. If I want to further my study, I will take care of it myself. I personally don't feel comfortable if my parents go into debt to support me especially at the post-graduate level.
3. For me, my parents' taking care of their finances, i.e. comfortable retirement, having a plan to take care of the bad situation i.e. LTC, is already a super big gift to me. I rather they take care of themselves first before they bending over to help me.
4. if your kid is already going to med school, i assume he is a young adult and reasonably smart and hard-working, and he/she can figure out financially how to fund his/her education.
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by stoptothink »

White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:42 am First, let the future doctor borrow, not the future doctor's parent.
This, end of thread. If you can reasonably afford to cash-flow it, by all means, but I wouldn't ever consider taking out loans for graduate school, especially when it essentially guarantees them a 6-figure career. If you would like to help with living costs during school or help start paying down their loans in residency, I'm sure they would much appreciate it. I say this as someone who received $0 in financial assistance from parents for 11yrs of university education (wife similarly received no parental assistance for undergrad), but already has enough in 529s to cover undergrad for both my elementary-aged children.
TheDDC
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by TheDDC »

Borrowing for college = not good, period. Borrowing for medical school seems even worse. If one does not pass their boards, etc. then it's even even larger debt load and a bigger gamble. Have your child look at MD/PhD programs which can use "OPM" to pay their way through the program.

More info here: https://students-residents.aamc.org/app ... rams-state

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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by obgraham »

OP, these days the majority of medical school attendees take out loans -- that's how the larcenous medical schools get their income. The average loan balance by graduation is well into the multi-hundred thousands of dollars.
There is no great difficulty in obtaining these loans.
So Parents should not be co-signing for future doctors.
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skor99
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by skor99 »

Agreed that co-signing is not a good idea, but are there direct $50K loans available for 22 year olds who have just finished their bachelors degree and have only a minimal credit history ?
I absolutely don’t think parents paying the bulk of the fees for medical college is a good idea and hence the loans, but are there un-co-signed loans available ?
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by stoptothink »

skor99 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:35 pm Agreed that co-signing is not a good idea, but are there direct $50K loans available for 22 year olds who have just finished their bachelors degree and have only a minimal credit history?
Yes
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anon_investor
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by anon_investor »

skor99 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:35 pm Agreed that co-signing is not a good idea, but are there direct $50K loans available for 22 year olds who have just finished their bachelors degree and have only a minimal credit history ?
I absolutely don’t think parents paying the bulk of the fees for medical college is a good idea and hence the loans, but are there un-co-signed loans available ?
Probably, that is the target audience of the direct federal loans for grad students (stafford and grad plus).
hachiko
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by hachiko »

skor99 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:35 pm Agreed that co-signing is not a good idea, but are there direct $50K loans available for 22 year olds who have just finished their bachelors degree and have only a minimal credit history ?
I absolutely don’t think parents paying the bulk of the fees for medical college is a good idea and hence the loans, but are there un-co-signed loans available ?
For federal loans "no credit" doesn't matter. Remember ninja loans? Well federal student loans are the same. There is a maximum, but if no undergrad loans, seems very unlikely they'd hit any maximum.

Also, I disagree with the person saying medical school loans aren't worth it because college loans aren't worth it. If someone can get into medical school, they should have a good enough job coming out even if they're one of the very small percentage of graduates that don't pass their boards. Of any loan for any type of education my bet is that medical school loan "success" rates are higher than any other career loans.
bltn
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by bltn »

TheDDC wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:08 pm Borrowing for college = not good, period. Borrowing for medical school seems even worse. If one does not pass their boards, etc. then it's even even larger debt load and a bigger gamble. Have your child look at MD/PhD programs which can use "OPM" to pay their way through the program.

More info here: https://students-residents.aamc.org/app ... rams-state

-TheDDC
The MD/PhD program is one of the most expensive ways to go to medical school. I have a child who completed an MD/PhD program in 7 years, which was faster than most at her school. In effect her MD/PhD degree cost her 3 years of a doctor s income. That s a lot to pay for medical school.
Last edited by bltn on Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
newyorker
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by newyorker »

TheDDC wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:08 pm Borrowing for college = not good, period. Borrowing for medical school seems even worse. If one does not pass their boards, etc. then it's even even larger debt load and a bigger gamble. Have your child look at MD/PhD programs which can use "OPM" to pay their way through the program.

More info here: https://students-residents.aamc.org/app ... rams-state

-TheDDC
I would personally advise against phd. It is a waste of time. Better to go out into the real world and make real money than to waste 4 years doing phd nonsense and stuck in academia. Just my 0.02
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neurosphere
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by neurosphere »

bltn wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:28 pm
TheDDC wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:08 pm Borrowing for college = not good, period. Borrowing for medical school seems even worse. If one does not pass their boards, etc. then it's even even larger debt load and a bigger gamble. Have your child look at MD/PhD programs which can use "OPM" to pay their way through the program.

More info here: https://students-residents.aamc.org/app ... rams-state

-TheDDC
The MD/PhD program is one of the most expensive ways to go to medical school. I have a child who completed an MD/PhD program in 7 years, which was faster than most at her school. In effect her MD degree cost her 3 years of a doctor s income. That s a lot pay for medical school.
I obtained an MD/PhD. My PhD added 7 years to the 4 years of medical school, thus erasing 7 years of salary from the end of my career. It saved me tuition, and also earned me some small stipend to offset day to day expenses (rent, food, expenses). But 7 additional years of physician salary likely offsets 3 years of medical school tuition (although depends on the tuition and the specialty).

My PhD opened career opportunities but NOT lucrative ones. In fact, I suspect by age 51 I will no longer be practicing medicine nor doing research and thus my entire education (both MD and PhD) turned out not to be the most cost-effective. However, I do not for a second regret my previous choices. Ok, wait. I 100% regret taking linear algebra as an elective in engineering school because I thought it would be "good for me". What a colossal waste of time! :oops:
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skor99
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by skor99 »

hachiko wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:12 pm
skor99 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:35 pm Agreed that co-signing is not a good idea, but are there direct $50K loans available for 22 year olds who have just finished their bachelors degree and have only a minimal credit history ?
I absolutely don’t think parents paying the bulk of the fees for medical college is a good idea and hence the loans, but are there un-co-signed loans available ?
For federal loans "no credit" doesn't matter. Remember ninja loans? Well federal student loans are the same. There is a maximum, but if no undergrad loans, seems very unlikely they'd hit any maximum.

Also, I disagree with the person saying medical school loans aren't worth it because college loans aren't worth it. If someone can get into medical school, they should have a good enough job coming out even if they're one of the very small percentage of graduates that don't pass their boards. Of any loan for any type of education my bet is that medical school loan "success" rates are higher than any other career loans.
Yes, there shouldn’t be any undergraduate loans - that is all in-state with some scholarship help. And Good to know that federal no-credit check loans should cover Med school but Are we talking only about tuition though or also living expenses/ books etc ? That could easily be an extra 25 K per year on top of tuition

Also, is there any means testing on the parents ? Meaning parents with a certain asset level might have lesser eligibility?
delamer
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by delamer »

skor99 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:35 pm Agreed that co-signing is not a good idea, but are there direct $50K loans available for 22 year olds who have just finished their bachelors degree and have only a minimal credit history ?
I absolutely don’t think parents paying the bulk of the fees for medical college is a good idea and hence the loans, but are there un-co-signed loans available ?
Has your child gotten into any medical schools yet? I can assure you that they’ll provide lots of information on loans when the time comes. Here’s one link: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/off ... aid/loans/
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Edujo
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by Edujo »

Don’t take out med school loans for your child. The loan program for med students is fairly simple and will cover the cost of attendance. 1st your child should take out unsubsidized direct loans. If that covers everything great; this is not the case for most. Next step is for child to take out grad plus aka direct plus (same thing, but you might hear it called either term). That covers everything else up to the cost of attendance as defined by the school (there is no aggregate limit like other programs). Whether you go to local state school or Harvard, a grad plus will cover your child’s cost of attendance. Pretty much everyone is approved unless your child has managed to rack up some insane amount of credit card debt or is involved in some sort of criminal activity. Your child will have all the benefits of federal loans (+ a few cons too) and you will not be saddled with the debt. If you have money and want to support med school costs, either pay directly for tuition, housing, etc. or help them pay down their loans after graduation. Doctors will be able to pay off their loans, unless they don’t finish or go into some other profession that isn’t lucrative.
Only scenarios where a parent loan is beneficial are morbid. 1. If you take out the loans and end up having very little or no income, then you can get on an income based repayment plan. You potentially could have $0 payments until you die and the loans are discharged with your death. 2. You are going to die soon; the parent loans are discharged with your death. I’m guessing you are planning on sticking around/don’t have a terminal disease. Obviously, I’m not suggesting this, just laying out the only time i see a parent loan as beneficial. Your child will have no med school debt and it doesn’t affect your ability to retire/survive in retirement because you won’t be around. If you don’t qualify for one of these situations, don’t take out parent loans, unless you are happy to risk your retirement.
TLDR: don’t take out a parent loan for med school, there are very few situations where it is beneficial. Your child will most likely be able to pay it off if they use their degree.
Last edited by Edujo on Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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anon_investor
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by anon_investor »

OP NYU med school is tuition free:
https://med.nyu.edu/education/md-degree ... attendance

Maybe there are other similar options, that may help them save a lot.
bltn
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by bltn »

neurosphere wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:48 pm
bltn wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:28 pm
TheDDC wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:08 pm Borrowing for college = not good, period. Borrowing for medical school seems even worse. If one does not pass their boards, etc. then it's even even larger debt load and a bigger gamble. Have your child look at MD/PhD programs which can use "OPM" to pay their way through the program.

More info here: https://students-residents.aamc.org/app ... rams-state

-TheDDC
The MD/PhD program is one of the most expensive ways to go to medical school. I have a child who completed an MD/PhD program in 7 years, which was faster than most at her school. In effect her MD degree cost her 3 years of a doctor s income. That s a lot pay for medical school.
I obtained an MD/PhD. My PhD added 7 years to the 4 years of medical school, thus erasing 7 years of salary from the end of my career. It saved me tuition, and also earned me some small stipend to offset day to day expenses (rent, food, expenses). But 7 additional years of physician salary likely offsets 3 years of medical school tuition (although depends on the tuition and the specialty).

My PhD opened career opportunities but NOT lucrative ones. In fact, I suspect by age 51 I will no longer be practicing medicine nor doing research and thus my entire education (both MD and PhD) turned out not to be the most cost-effective. However, I do not for a second regret my previous choices. Ok, wait. I 100% regret taking linear algebra as an elective in engineering school because I thought it would be "good for me". What a colossal waste of time! :oops:
Wow. 7 years to get the PhD. That must have been a complicated research project.

Almost all of the kids at my daughter s elite eastern medical school took 4-5 years to get their PhD in addition to the 4 years of medical school . I tried to talk my daughter out of the PhD as most of the physicians doing research and practicing academic medicine only have MD degrees. But she said "Daddy, I like what I m doing". So on with the PhD as well as MD. Thirteen published papers by the time of her graduation, the most in her class. She s smart like her mother. Sorry for the bragging.

Now, let s look at the math of earnings and medical school costs. The PhD commonly takes 4 years, if a student pushes it. The first 4 years of a doctor s practice, he/she commonly earns at least 200,000 a year, average annual compensation. So a relatively low earner will give up 800,000 dollars in income for the payment for 4 years of medical school. The lost years of earnings should be taken from the the productive start of ones career, not the slowdown end of a career.
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by bltn »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:25 am OP NYU med school is tuition free:
https://med.nyu.edu/education/md-degree ... attendance

Maybe there are other similar options, that may help them save a lot.
And consequently NYU s school of medicine has vaulted into a position of being one of the most difficult schools to get into.
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by neurosphere »

bltn wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:45 pm Now, let s look at the math of earnings and medical school costs. The PhD commonly takes 4 years, if a student pushes it. The first 4 years of a doctor s practice, he/she commonly earns at least 200,000 a year, average annual compensation. So a relatively low earner will give up 800,000 dollars in income for the payment for 4 years of medical school. The lost years of earnings should be taken from the the productive start of ones career, not the slowdown end of a career.
My first 6 years out of medical school were in training making less than $60,000. Then my first 3 years as faculty I earned $120,000. If basing on the "early" years, the PhD didn't cost me much. :wink:
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by anon_investor »

neurosphere wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:51 pm
bltn wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:45 pm Now, let s look at the math of earnings and medical school costs. The PhD commonly takes 4 years, if a student pushes it. The first 4 years of a doctor s practice, he/she commonly earns at least 200,000 a year, average annual compensation. So a relatively low earner will give up 800,000 dollars in income for the payment for 4 years of medical school. The lost years of earnings should be taken from the the productive start of ones career, not the slowdown end of a career.
My first 6 years out of medical school were in training making less than $60,000. Then my first 3 years as faculty I earned $120,000. If basing on the "early" years, the PhD didn't cost me much. :wink:
Bet you make a lot more now. :beer
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by anon_investor »

bltn wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:48 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:25 am OP NYU med school is tuition free:
https://med.nyu.edu/education/md-degree ... attendance

Maybe there are other similar options, that may help them save a lot.
And consequently NYU s school of medicine has vaulted into a position of being one of the most difficult schools to get into.
HAHA, I wonder why. :moneybag :moneybag :moneybag
ncbill
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by ncbill »

Or get paid to attend by working for Uncle Sam for awhile afterwards:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Pr ... ip_Program

A relative of mine (mid-30s at the time) took advantage of the above & they're now a retired O-5...working when they want.
bltn
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Re: Loans for Medical school

Post by bltn »

neurosphere wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:51 pm
bltn wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:45 pm Now, let s look at the math of earnings and medical school costs. The PhD commonly takes 4 years, if a student pushes it. The first 4 years of a doctor s practice, he/she commonly earns at least 200,000 a year, average annual compensation. So a relatively low earner will give up 800,000 dollars in income for the payment for 4 years of medical school. The lost years of earnings should be taken from the the productive start of ones career, not the slowdown end of a career.
My first 6 years out of medical school were in training making less than $60,000. Then my first 3 years as faculty I earned $120,000. If basing on the "early" years, the PhD didn't cost me much. :wink:
I was talking about practice after one completes their medical training, which includes a relatively low paid residency for every doctor..

Even in your situation, considering your residency and including those years, your PhD cost 480k in wages. Probably twice the cost of your medical school.
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