Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

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Freetime76
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Freetime76 »

KlangFool wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:22 pm Folks,

In any reasonable size organization, 20% of the folks are doing 80% of the works. So, if you are any good, you will be overwork if you do not learn to say "no". And, the horrible part of this is if you are overwork, the quality of your work will go down and/or you will be burn out. Aka, you would not last long.

A) Not everything is worth doing.

B) If you say "yes" to everyone, you are a pushover. No one will think highly of you.

C) If you willing to work for free (weekend, vacation time, and so on), your time must not be very valuable to you. Hence, by extension, you are not that valuable too.

Set a priority. Do whatever can be done with good quality within your office hour. Or else, face burn out and disappointment.

KlangFool
+1000
Look. NOBODY is essential. NOBODY is irreplaceable. If a person truly is, the business is either loony toons OR they pay a lot of “Key Man” insurance (Key Person, I suppose). My grandpa said before he retired that there would be people lined up out the door to take his place. That is even more true today.

Also, very important: company loyalty died with pensions. People job hop. It might be nice not to, but most do, and it brings you new experiences (plus a fresh chance to negotiate pay) and makes you a more valuable employee. Don’t get stale in one company.

It is a responsibility of the employee to say NO when it is too much. Sure, it’d be nice if management stepped in and hired 2 more people. Dream folks :D . Management is just as overworked, drowning in emails and meetings. Management always will give more work to those who “can handle it”. I always felt bad for my manager! Budgets are set yadda yadda. Too bad. You HAVE to leave work and go home to family, have downtime, take your vacation (and stay off the darned computer/phone, set your Out Of Office message to contact your manager name/#/email).

OP: My concern is that You are going to the next job, only to recreate the same pressure cooker for yourself, unless you learn the value and importance of setting boundaries on work time. If you want to work in the p.m., fine. But do not be on your phone at the dinner table and call it your job’s fault. Set limits **for yourself** 8-) . There are loads of studies out there, showing how creativity and productivity improve dramatically when you get away to other pursuits (if you’re not familiar with this, unplugging means you are totally not thinking about work AT ALL... those whiz-bang ideas, the freshness with which you attack your work when you return, not to mention your personal health, attitude, and family well-being all flow so much better.)

What I am saying is that you may think you’re being productive on 11th working hour of the work day, but you are not (unless you’re working in the ER or NICU - a different species of super people!) . You’ll get more done in less time, for the benefit of your employer, as well (that seems to be important to you).

A brief comparison from my own experience:
a) Employer A: where “everyone” worked weekends, constantly on call etc.)...and yet, I said “I don’t do weekends”. Voila! :shock: Boundary set, I had a weekend. :shock: Amazing. For many years. And guess what? I still got promoted quickly, had preferred perks and the little bennies jobs can provide. Very intense job, but stepping away made me perform better.

b) Employer B: Loved the work and got sucked into it, extra time on projects, some weekends, very intense. This was an European employer who insisted that people take their vacations each year as an objective item. I decided to be a workaholic-type for various reasons... :oops: Burnout in <2 years. Quit. I did it the right way, handing off work, making sure others knew what was going on with projects, before I gave notice.

Also, OP, you’ll be fine. In your shoes, I’d take a vacation - no emails!!! - let your boss know, but I wouldn’t bother with the drama over burnout. Just schedule and take the vacation. When you return, it’s time to practice in this safe environment. Start setting your own boundaries- for your own sake (because hey, you’re considering quitting, right? So what’s the worse that can happen). Block out calendar time as Busy for no meetings. Not negotiable. Leave at a set time. Stay off work at home. Try it for a week and see how it goes.
Normchad
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Normchad »

I have no problem with your plan, although I’ve never personally done it.

I don’t find it stressful to look for a job, so I’d never leap without having the next gig lined up.

However, I know several people who have done exactly what you’re thinking. And for them, the idea has merit. One of them wanted to completely clear their head so that they could think very clearly about what came next. Another wanted to spend 3 full months studying and practicing for FAANG style interviews.

So I say go for it.

But also consider career counseling. You had a role to play in all of this, and you might find yourself in the exact same position again. When you are always “on”, you actually train those around you to expect it. You encourage the very behavior that is burning you out.

Bluntly, they’ll keep giving you stuff until you break or cry uncle. If you never cry uncle, it keeps coming.

Best of luck to you. Financially, you’ve done well, and the best thing about that is it gives you the option to do this. Lots of folks just have to suck it up cause they don’t have financial flexibility to take a break.
SnowBog
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by SnowBog »

Unless I've misread, I get the sense you aren't going to "walk away" from this job. My guess is if you "quit", you are going to give 2 weeks (or more) notice and help them transition your duties.

If you leave now, I fear you gain nothing that helps you in the long term. (Aside from the lower stress/etc.).

So, here's an idea... Learn to say "no" while still there. If you don't, I fear this will plague you through the remainder of your working years. Continuing to do everything yourself doesn't help anyone.

If you are going to leave anyway, somehow the things you say "no" to will still need to get done (if they are important). If you walked out the door (or died) tomorrow, the business will still function.

By saying "no" now, the people that will have to replace your duties get the chance to learn. By learning to say "no" now, you'll realize that you (and your family) don't have to be the sacrificial lamb - that is OK to say and maintain boundaries. Ideally, you'll learn that if you don't break this cycle, you are likely domed to repeat it at your next job.

So when you turn in your notice (if not before), that should include your "no" switch getting turn on. Your "job" at that point is no longer to do what you were doing prior but to ensure they have people ready to do the job when you leave. Learn from that process. Learn it's OK to say no. Don't step in and do for others, let them (or the business as a whole) find another way to get things done. If you can do this, I think you'll leave feeling better, and position yourself better for your next role in the future.

I wish you the best in your endeavors.
stocknoob4111
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by stocknoob4111 »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 amI have never had a vacation that involved unplugging from work.
You are not setting expectations. Tell them you will be going on vacation and unavailable for the next 2 weeks. Don't ask, TELL.
Then if they push back that you need to be available again clarify that you need time with your family and cannot be disturbed. Simple as that. With your assets you have the confidence to do that.

I have never been bothered at ANY of my jobs when I was on vacation, and i've worked for all sorts of companies from small fly to Fortune 100. What is happening at your work environment is highly abnormal, before quitting outright I would try to set the situation straight first and see how it goes.
Dave55
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Dave55 »

If I were you I would resign effective immediately (no notice) for health reasons. Health is more important than anything, and your mental health is just as important. It sounds like you are in a very dysfunctional abusive work environment. Your finances are in great shape. I have walked several times with no plan, but always with more than a year of expenses in the bank. I am retired now in my early 60's and set for life.

Dave
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Beensabu
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Beensabu »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am I’ve hit a breaking point at work.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's no fun.
- Has anyone leaped without a plan?
Yes.

I would advise having a plan. It turns out it's actually true that it is much easier finding a new job while currently employed. Especially a new job that pays the same or more. And it's not easy getting a job you're overqualified for unless your resume already shows that you downshifted previously.
There is no way I can manage the additional stress of job searching while working.
Stop looking at the job search as stressful. It's not stressful. Your job is stressful. The job search is a fun hobby where you get to talk to interesting new people and try to figure out if the place where they work is chill or toxic. You're interviewing them. They called you because your resume shows that you can do the job. Tell them why you can do the job and look for clues that tell you whether or not you want to do it in the environment they're offering.

First, though, disengage emotionally from your work. That's step one. If you don't figure out how to do that, you're going to end up in the same situation again. You will feel a lot better once you accomplish this.
- Financially - Do we look okay to survive this?
You look oodles better than I did. Do what you need to do.
- My first thought is to take 30 days to just regroup and focus on my health. From there I’ll begin the process of looking for a new role.
If you do leap, I would advise beginning the job search right away. Just a couple hours a day. It takes awhile to get through the application/interview/hiring process.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next."
TxInjun
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by TxInjun »

OP,

If you are committed to quitting - may I suggest you ask your supervisor if there is a path for a mutual exit with a package. The worst that can happen is that they say no, and you proceed with your plans. If you are a key cog, then your supervisor may realize the benefits of an organized transition.

Good luck - can't comment on your situation but I empathize with some of what you have said.

Best,

TxIn
WhyNotUs
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by WhyNotUs »

My wife did it at about 50. Kept getting promoted and raises and stresses. She did not burn any bridges on her way out and we planned for a year off and then she had to be doing something she enjoyed. 364 days later she went back to previous employer in a lower role and part time and took another part time job with a non-profit and both bring her joy. 10 years later, household income is lower and household joy is higher.
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by abuss368 »

Dave55 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:01 pm If I were you I would resign effective immediately (no notice) for health reasons. Health is more important than anything, and your mental health is just as important. It sounds like you are in a very dysfunctional abusive work environment. Your finances are in great shape. I have walked several times with no plan, but always with more than a year of expenses in the bank. I am retired now in my early 60's and set for life.

Dave
Solid advice Dave. The older one gets, quality of life and healthy become more important.

Tony
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almostretired1965
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by almostretired1965 »

A while back there was another thread where the OP stated that he was so overworked he simply could not see how he could carve out the time to actively search for another job. I was not very charitable and expressed a bit of scepticism at how that could be, but being a bit of a slacker at heart, setting limits/expectations with bosses and needy co-workers was not something I had much trouble with over the years. :-) Regardless, my personal opinion is that quitting without having a job lined up (let alone with no plan) should be avoided at all costs (unless your health or personal integrity is at stake, of course). It could work out, but it will put a lot of pressure on you and your family if something does . If you think you are stressed now, how do you think you are going to feel if your wife gets laid off while you are still unemployed? Can't happen right?

Far better to do as others have advised and start setting some limits on your availability for work now, and use the extra time to start the job search while you are gainfully employed. From what you have described, I think you need to learn how to do that before you get burned out at your next job.
lostinjersey
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by lostinjersey »

OP I had a similar post a month or two ago. I’m burnt out from the nonstop rat race and just want a break. I’ve decided I’m going to do what you’re proposing. We can live for a year on my husband’s salary and our savings, so I’m taking that time off to rest, recharge, and figure out what to do next. I’m 50 and I promise it won’t be what I’m doing today.

Best of luck to you. I hope you’re able to get some relief.
banook
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by banook »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am Hi All,

I’ve hit a breaking point at work. It’s been coming for a long time as Ive sacrificed my family and health for the sake of my job. That sacrifice hasn’t paid off. It’s your normal list of negative work qualities - stagnant pay, high stress levels, resource shortages, increasing time demands, no leadership support, no control of my schedule or priorities,etc. I’m not disgruntled at all but I don’t feel like I can continue. Despite my best efforts my work life has taken over my personal life. My physical health has declined over the last 5 years as well. I work in a good field with a transferable skill set so think the timing is good to take a pause, get refreshed, and look for something better. The goal wouldn’t be to find something more lucrative but instead focus on what I would enjoy and provide fulfillment. It seems like everyone I know has a myriad of options open to them.

Here are the relevant items to hopefully garner some feedback:

- MFJ, DW works full time, gross pay 110K, would join her health insurance
- DW and I are in our low 40’s
- 9 year child
- Annual expenses around 100K total; could be trimmed pretty easily
- Both cars paid off
- 12 month emergency fund for half of expenses (assumes wife continues to work)
- Taxable Account 130K
- Pretax Accounts $1.2M
- 529 for child is 40% funded to stated final amount

Questions:

- Has anyone leaped without a plan? There is no way I can manage the additional stress of job searching while working. How did your leap go? Any tips/tricks?
- Financially - Do we look okay to survive this?
- My first thought is to take 30 days to just regroup and focus on my health. From there I’ll begin the process of looking for a new role.

Thanks for any input!
I think you're fine and I am in a similar situation - maybe not as bad work wise. Financially, you seem fine for at least 6-12 months. I would probably quit in your situation. Take 2-4 weeks off and do not do ANYTHING, don't feel guilty about not doing anything - you need a clean break and a clean out. But, after 2-4 weeks of clean break commit to building a timeline and plans for yourself for the next 5 months. Even consider hiring a career coach if you're not sure what you want to do or where you want to go. Many of my friends in their 40s adopted this strategy and seem to be better for it - with and without kids, and with significantly less resources than you. If your family are on board with you, you can't go wrong (especially because your finances are in good shape). LEAP.
Jablean
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Jablean »

Quit and become a consultant. Especially if you feel for the firm/people and you have transferrable skills. Sometimes easier to set your boundaries and say this is the part of work I enjoy, I don't enjoy that part so I'm only going to do this part. So I say take the summer off and spend it with your family.
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2Scoops
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

Jablean wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:31 am Quit and become a consultant. Especially if you feel for the firm/people and you have transferrable skills. Sometimes easier to set your boundaries and say this is the part of work I enjoy, I don't enjoy that part so I'm only going to do this part. So I say take the summer off and spend it with your family.
This thought crossed my mind as well. I would need to do a lot of research on how I would set this up. Thanks!
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markjk
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by markjk »

Lot's of good posts in this thread. I'll add I'm close to you in age and went through something similar about 3 years ago. I get what you are saying about the nuance and difficulty of fully summarizing the challenges in a couple of posts. It sounds easy to say "just say no". In practice, it's a lot harder in many situations.

When I hit that breaking point, I spent about 6 months considering next steps and talking it over with people I trust. My first move once ready was to fully explain my stance with my immediate manager and try to find another lateral role within the company that I felt would be a good change. Fortunately, I found something and it has worked out thus far. If that didn't work out I was prepared to take a demotion to another role and ultimately quit if there was no other option.

Your health and missing years of your children's development is not worth a job unless you literally have no other choice. Many of us have built careers on working hard which often translates to working all the time, especially today when everything from work is available right on the mobile phone. It's not healthy long term, especially once family priorities come into play.

Make sure you have that conversation with your manager. Make it clear where you stand. You might be surprised what they'd be willing to do to keep you on board, even in a different capacity. That is actually what happened with me. I was surprised at how open they were to talking once I actually made it clear where I stood. Finding good workers is really hard. Any worthwhile management team wants to keep good people. I know that sometimes the "process" and red tape makes that harder than it sounds but it's certainly worth the conversation.

On the financial side, even if you don't add another dime to that 401k, you'll likely be a multi-millionaire by the time you hit 62 assuming a primarily stock based allocation. So, even that is in good shape right now. Nothing wrong with figuring out how to both survive and thrive within your family life for the next couple of decades. Isn't having this option why you've worked hard and saved all that money anyway? That is the way I look at it.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by JoeRetire »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am - Has anyone leaped without a plan?
No, never. I was the sole earner in my family for many years. While I was laid off several times, I would never have gone that route intentionally.
There is no way I can manage the additional stress of job searching while working.
Perhaps that's the difference. I was always able to manage both.

- My first thought is to take 30 days to just regroup and focus on my health. From there I’ll begin the process of looking for a new role.
From a hiring manager's viewpoint, I can tell you that I always preferred to hire people who felt that work was important. That meant candidates who were unemployed by their own volition, lost "points".

Hopefully the economy will be strong enough for long enough so that you can get yourself hired when you decide the time is right. Be ready to tell potential employers why you left your last job, why you left with no "plan", and why you won't leave them.

Good luck.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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dziuniek
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by dziuniek »

At the very least, I would send out a bunch of applications before you quit and get a start on finding a new job.
And if you hate your employer, do it on their time. :twisted: (Sorry, I'm not in the camp of thinking I owe my employer anything)

Maybe what you need is simply ... change.
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dogagility
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by dogagility »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am - Has anyone leaped without a plan?
My advice would be that given to me by my parents... the best time to find a job is when you have a job.
The more flexibility you have the less you need to know what happens next. -- Morgan Housel
oilrig
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by oilrig »

OP, Im kind of in the same situation as you are. Here is my advice before you quit. At the very least, work your Linkedin right now: update your Linkedin profile, turn on the button that says youre open to other opportunities and visible to recruiters, reach out to your connections, connect with potential companies and hiring managers that you are interested in working for. None of this will take a lot of time and can be done during your work hours. Upload your resume on Indeed as well, make it easy for other recruiters to find you.

Also, you can set up daily job search alerts on Linkedin and Indeed. Everyday I get emails from Linkedin and Indeed with new job postings that fit my search criteria. They do all the work for me, and I just apply to the jobs Im interested in. It takes away all of the pain of searching for new jobs everyday on various job boards. Also, Indeed and Linkedin have an easy apply feature for a lot of jobs where you can apply with just a few clicks, as opposed to having to fill out the entire time-consuming standard application on a company's website.

At the very minimum do the above actions before you quit so you have a few things in the works. Ideally I would love to quit, take some time off for a few months, but have a job lined up before I quit.
humblecoder
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by humblecoder »

I was doing some more reflection on the OP's question. I feel even more strongly that you should NOT quit without having another job lined up. Instead take the 2 week vacation that I recommended upthread. A true vacation: no emails, no phone calls, nothing. Tell your boss that you are turning off your phone and you aren't checking emails. Period.

Don't be afraid of the repercussions. There are two possibilities:

1. If you truly are indispensable, they aren't going to fire you without shooting themselves in the foot.

2. If it is a "you" problem where you aren't as indispensable as you think and you just are a workaholic, then they aren't going to fire you either since they can survive without you.

Either way, your job won't be in jeopardy. Then, as I mentioned, use that time to reconnect with family and do a little job hunting if you want to line up some options in case it doesn't get better.

Quitting without having something lined up should be a last resort, but I think you have better options.
sid hartha
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by sid hartha »

I wouldn't do it. It's easier to get a job if you have a job. Just my opinion.
oilrig
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by oilrig »

humblecoder wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:32 am I was doing some more reflection on the OP's question. I feel even more strongly that you should NOT quit without having another job lined up. Instead take the 2 week vacation that I recommended upthread. A true vacation: no emails, no phone calls, nothing. Tell your boss that you are turning off your phone and you aren't checking emails. Period.

Don't be afraid of the repercussions. There are two possibilities:

1. If you truly are indispensable, they aren't going to fire you without shooting themselves in the foot.

2. If it is a "you" problem where you aren't as indispensable as you think and you just are a workaholic, then they aren't going to fire you either since they can survive without you.

Either way, your job won't be in jeopardy. Then, as I mentioned, use that time to reconnect with family and do a little job hunting if you want to line up some options in case it doesn't get better.

Quitting without having something lined up should be a last resort, but I think you have better options.
I see the advice to take an extended vacation a lot, but truthfully that never worked for me. The dread/knowledge of having to go back to work with a bunch of work and emails waiting for me almost ruins the vacation IMO. I've always preferred taking more frequent weekend trips. It gives me something to look forward to once a month and I dont have a bunch of work piled up waiting for me when I get back.

I was laid off last year and unemployed for 4 months. I was able to recharge and relax throughout these 4 months. When I finally did get a job I wasnt looking forward to going back to work at all. I knew what was waiting for me on the other side lol. Those 4 months off did nothing for me besides make me not want to go back to work!
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by dknightd »

I would never leap without a plan
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BeerTooth
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by BeerTooth »

I've never been in a work situation like you describe, but I do have empathy for the stress it has caused for you and your family.
2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:15 pm I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business. My reputation is way too solid to let the final hours ruin it.
This reads as a red flag to me. It sounds like an abusive/toxic relationship. I can assure you that your feelings are not reciprocated. I don't see any Bogleheads posts from your boss saying "I care about 2Scoops as a person, his success, and the long term impact that his employment here is having on his family."

Unless you are incarcerated, or enlisted in the military, you have the option to refuse a direct order. Doing so is the only way to re-train your employer, who I'm sure is quite happy with the value proposition of your current workaholic habits.
Keenobserver
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Keenobserver »

If there is one thing my father taught me , it is not to work in a job that makes you miserable. That was his personal mantra and he passed it on to me. He was a single earner with 5 kids and yet he would always say any job that jeopardizes your health, personal relations is not worth it no matter what. There will always be other jobs, but your health and time are not renewable. You cannot get back the miserable time you were forced to spent, you cannot undo the damadge to your mental and physical health that comes with prolonged periods of holding stressful.jobs. Life is way too short and the world is waaay to big for that.
KESP
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by KESP »

If I was you I would quit. The pattern at your present job has already been set. It’s very difficult after all this to essentially become a different person. I have been in your shoes for 2 jobs. It’s a mental issue where my self esteem was wrapped up in doing my job well, accommodating my bosses, answering calls on vacation, basically doing whatever they asked me. The first job was with a big company, my second job is at a school (librarian) The reward at my present job is it appears they are not replacing me after I retire July 1st. When it was brought up as a possibility from my principal, I told her that if that happened, do not call me for any assistance. I will say no. I might add there seems to be money for positions that either directly or indirectly make the administrators’ jobs easier. Can you tell I’m a little bitter? :wink: :wink:
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luminous
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by luminous »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:40 pm Such insightful people with great perspectives. I’m in a better position on so many levels for finding this community.

I’m going to digest all of the responses over the next day or two. As I mentioned previously, it’s so hard to capture the spirit of the work environment in abbreviated posts. I can assure you all I have had many 1 on 1’s with my manager about about boundaries, priorities, resource allocation, staffing levels, etc. I’ve never threatened to leave as it’s not in my nature. My focus has always been on finding a solution, not walking away.

The decision won’t be emotional to the best of my ability. My only goal is to create the right balance of work and life while maximizing fulfillment.

Thank you all again!
My 2 cents: you can afford to leave, you have your spouse’s support, and you have tried and failed to fix your situation with your current employer. I say you should leave.

My next 2 cents: Wherever you go, there you are. The next job may repeat the patterns of this one without some soul searching. While you are between jobs consider reflecting, possibly with the help of a career coach, on how to prioritize yourself above your job. It is, in my opinion, vital to my ability to have a successful life. Taking a real vacation has got to be possible, for example.
55/15/30 US stock/international stock/bonds. Hope to semi-retire in 2022.
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Devil's Advocate »

I feel for ya. Your existence does seem pretty spartan.

I would not advise leaving a job without a job lined up or at least a strong plan to get another job quickly. It seems harder for an unemployed person with job gap to get a second notice when applying for a position.

That being said I would hazard a bet you are a big part of your problem. You have made the decision to allow work to completely take over your life. Your next job will likely do the same, if YOU do not set appropriate boundaries.

Therefore I think you need to work on you the next few weeks and get this figured out. Perhaps use your corporate health plan to pay for a therapist. I really think you have some issues you need to work on.

Good luck to you.

DA
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Elsebet
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Elsebet »

In your situation I would not quit, I would simply work 40 hours and not work evenings/weekends unless it is a production emergency. Set your available hours in your calendar and publish them in the signature of your emails. Do not check emails after you finish for the day, if someone needs you badly enough they will call you. When they call, ask if this is an emergency, and if it is not, say you will look into it in the morning during your normal office hours. You have the assets to set limits. I don't even have your level of assets and I set limits like this all the time.

If this company fires you then it's their loss and you have enough assets to not really worry about it anyway. If you worry about being fired/laid off then look for another job with the hours you save by working only 40 hours per week.
"...the man who adapts himself to his slender means and makes himself wealthy on a little sum, is the truly rich man..." ~Seneca
setancre
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by setancre »

I agree with the advice not to leave your current role until after you have started looking for a new one.

The big challenge with seeking a new job while unemployed is that all of your interviews start off with you in a defensive stance.

As you can see from this thread, (at least) half of hiring managers would never leave their current job without a new job lined up, so they will not be able to relate to what you are doing. This makes them question your judgement and they will wonder if the real issue is that you have a poor work ethic, are overly emotional, etc. They will be looking for additional red flags the entire meeting.

For the ones who can relate, they will still have a natural skepticism. Everyone has been lied to before. They are going to spend time trying to assess if you are actually being truthful, did you really get fired for cause but don't want to tell me? You might also inadvertently badmouth your employer (big no no).

Either way, you are wasting valuable interview time overcoming concerns and objections. If you are employed, the hiring manager knows (at a minimum) that some other employer values your work enough to give you a paycheck. Sounds like a very basic thing, but it is actually meaningful to managers who have been burned on bad hires before. You are also not wasting 5-10 minutes out of a 30 minute interview discussing this topic, which is not relevant to your skills and how great a job you will do for the new employer.

BTW, if you end up unemployed due to a restructuring or layoffs, it is actually much simpler to interview because the explanation is much more cut and dry to explain.

Echoing what others have said, I would recommend beginning to mentally disconnect from work. Quit inside your own brain. Take a vacation, dust off your resume, practice creating boundaries and develop better work-life balance habits before you move onto the next thing.
bhough
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by bhough »

HomeStretch wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 am Do you have any vacation time accrued? If so, consider telling your boss today that you must take 1-2 weeks vacation starting immediately for personal reasons. Be assertive and don’t give any more detail. Put an away message on your work voicemail and email. Then walk out the door.

Use the time off to take a breather and assess your next steps, update your resume, network, contact recruiters and submit some online applications. All very do-able in 1-2 weeks. During your time off, don’t answer any work calls or emails. The worst they can do is fire you. Which would be better as you would be eligible for unemployment. You can always give your notice on the last day of your vacation.

If you do quit without another job, do trim the annual expenses that you posted could be cut easily so you can live off your spouse’s take home pay without dipping into your portfolio.
This (above) is the right answer. I quit my job 5 years ago to try and start a new business as the job was burning me out and they hadn't hired anyone to help me for 18 months. I was right to quit, but it set back my plan considerably, and in retrospect, if I had just said "No" more often, things would have been better for me at that job. At my current job (business plan did not work out), I started saying "No" the minute I started and it is much easier.

Take those two weeks off and when you come back, start saying no. If they fire you (which they won't), you'll be in the same situation. Also line up a plan A, B and C for work. Good luck. I'm sorry they are mistreating you. Just make sure you weren't complicit in this, or allowing them to do it,..
b
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djpeteski
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by djpeteski »

For people in your situation what is preventing you from taking all the pressure off yourself and stopping after an 8 hour day or 40 hour work week?


Boss: Why didn't you complete all your assignments this week?
You: Well I only want to put in 40 hours of work for the week and I gave you 43, so some stuff got left undone. I will get to it as time permits.
Boss: You have to complete all your assignments!
You: I will, eventually, which ones would you like done first?
Boss: You have to work whatever hours necessary!
You: That is no longer going to work for me.
Boss: You will be fired!
You: Your prerogative, but without me the backlog will grow much faster.
Boss: Yelling and screaming!
You: Let me know when you calm down if you want to discuss further.

They cannot terminate you for cause for limiting your work hours to what is specified in your contract. By doing such, you can continue to get paid while you look for additional work. In fact it might work out quite well. Say you have an interview on Tuesday. Monday you can work into the night, and take Tuesday off.

"Hey boss, I worked on the xyz file until 10pm on Monday. I am taking Tuesday off, but will get my hours in by the end of the week. I will see you Wednesday bright and early!" Something like that in an email or voicemail.
KlangFool
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by KlangFool »

Folks,

A story:

Boss: Why do you come in late and did not attend this morning 8 am weekly meeting?

Me: I was working with the field engineer on the field test from 10pm last night to 3am this morning.

Boss: This might be true but I still expect you to come to work in the morning and attend the 8am meeting.

Me: .....

I found a new job and fire the boss a few months ago.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
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vanbogle59
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by vanbogle59 »

djpeteski wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:35 am For people in your situation what is preventing you from taking all the pressure off yourself and stopping after an 8 hour day or 40 hour work week?


Boss: Why didn't you complete all your assignments this week?
You: Well I only want to put in 40 hours of work for the week and I gave you 43, so some stuff got left undone. I will get to it as time permits.
Boss: You have to complete all your assignments!
You: I will, eventually, which ones would you like done first?
Boss: You have to work whatever hours necessary!
You: That is no longer going to work for me.
Boss: You will be fired!
You: Your prerogative, but without me the backlog will grow much faster.
Boss: Yelling and screaming!
You: Let me know when you calm down if you want to discuss further.

They cannot terminate you for cause for limiting your work hours to what is specified in your contract. By doing such, you can continue to get paid while you look for additional work. In fact it might work out quite well. Say you have an interview on Tuesday. Monday you can work into the night, and take Tuesday off.

"Hey boss, I worked on the xyz file until 10pm on Monday. I am taking Tuesday off, but will get my hours in by the end of the week. I will see you Wednesday bright and early!" Something like that in an email or voicemail.
Some people live in a world where standing up to their boss like this might cost them their house.
I was lucky in my career. Things never got that desperate.
I was always able to honestly express my personal preferences and my employer (almost) always respected it (minus a few REAL emergencies, of course).
The most I ever felt it cost me was potential raises and promotions.
Fair enough, in my book. I was perfectly OK with that.
Alex GR
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Alex GR »

2Scoops, I dunno what to say... I was exactly in the same situation but worse. I did quit eventually and never regretted it, so that's my 2 cents.
All these people who are saying "learn to say no" probably haven't really been in your shoes(or mine). What they do is they create all kinds of stress during the day (for example by calling you into meetings and screaming "WHEN THE F.. are we going to get this done!?!", "come back in 2 hours and report your progress"-and they do this when the time is 6PM), then call you on your cell phone after hours asking to connect and fix something, etc. If you turn off your phone, they send Skype messages, if you don't reply there, they call people you've listed as emergency contacts (I'll NEVER list anyone again in my life, I'll tell them I'm single and fully orphaned :mrgreen: ) And if you don't reply during late evening hours they're gonna make the next day so bad for you that you'll think "I wish I had replied last night". I'll stop there 'cause this is a financial forum but I was in this exact situation for many years and it had an irreversible effect on my health.
P.S. Perhaps none of our business but nobody caught this and I am very curious: How do you manage to spend $100k/Yr? I spend ~$35k and I can honestly say I'm living a very nice life.
KlangFool
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by KlangFool »

vanbogle59 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:57 am
djpeteski wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:35 am For people in your situation what is preventing you from taking all the pressure off yourself and stopping after an 8 hour day or 40 hour work week?


Boss: Why didn't you complete all your assignments this week?
You: Well I only want to put in 40 hours of work for the week and I gave you 43, so some stuff got left undone. I will get to it as time permits.
Boss: You have to complete all your assignments!
You: I will, eventually, which ones would you like done first?
Boss: You have to work whatever hours necessary!
You: That is no longer going to work for me.
Boss: You will be fired!
You: Your prerogative, but without me the backlog will grow much faster.
Boss: Yelling and screaming!
You: Let me know when you calm down if you want to discuss further.

They cannot terminate you for cause for limiting your work hours to what is specified in your contract. By doing such, you can continue to get paid while you look for additional work. In fact it might work out quite well. Say you have an interview on Tuesday. Monday you can work into the night, and take Tuesday off.

"Hey boss, I worked on the xyz file until 10pm on Monday. I am taking Tuesday off, but will get my hours in by the end of the week. I will see you Wednesday bright and early!" Something like that in an email or voicemail.
Some people live in a world where standing up to their boss like this might cost them their house.
I was lucky in my career. Things never got that desperate.
I was always able to honestly express my personal preferences and my employer (almost) always respected it (minus a few REAL emergencies, of course).
The most I ever felt it cost me was potential raises and promotions.
Fair enough, in my book. I was perfectly OK with that.
vanbogle59,

One of the reasons why I save one year of expense every year is it buys me FREEDOM. I do not have to put up with any BS at the workplace. The raises and promotion would not matter much to me too.

At one point, I took a 20% to 30% pay cut to a new job in order to fire my current boss. But, financially, it was not significant to me.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
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vanbogle59
Posts: 244
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by vanbogle59 »

Alex GR wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:01 pm How do you manage to spend $100k/Yr?
WAIT! I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS ONE!!!!

Get married.
Have kids.
Buy house.
Buy car.
Buy another car.
Buy bigger house.
Insurance.
Day care.
School.
Care for aging parent.
Dance lessons.
Vacation.
...
Dave55
Posts: 1159
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Dave55 »

Alex GR wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:01 pm 2Scoops, I dunno what to say... I was exactly in the same situation but worse. I did quit eventually and never regretted it, so that's my 2 cents.
All these people who are saying "learn to say no" probably haven't really been in your shoes(or mine). What they do is they create all kinds of stress during the day (for example by calling you into meetings and screaming "WHEN THE F.. are we going to get this done!?!", "come back in 2 hours and report your progress"-and they do this when the time is 6PM), then call you on your cell phone after hours asking to connect and fix something, etc. If you turn off your phone, they send Skype messages, if you don't reply there, they call people you've listed as emergency contacts (I'll NEVER list anyone again in my life, I'll tell them I'm single and fully orphaned :mrgreen: ) And if you don't reply during late evening hours they're gonna make the next day so bad for you that you'll think "I wish I had replied last night". I'll stop there 'cause this is a financial forum but I was in this exact situation for many years and it had an irreversible effect on my health.
P.S. Perhaps none of our business but nobody caught this and I am very curious: How do you manage to spend $100k/Yr? I spend ~$35k and I can honestly say I'm living a very nice life.
My wife has a PHD in retail therapy, I wish it was $100K a year..... :wink:

Dave
"Reality always wins, your only job is to get in touch with it." Wilfred Bion
Minty
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Minty »

I know where you are coming from, because I have always been wedded to the job, and once had one that was intolerable. There was a day when I was going to quit on the spot, for good reason, but I was persuaded by friends/colleagues to get another job first and it was the right move. At least see if they will give you a leave of absence.

On the other hand, if you really have to quit now, to avoid a heart attack, say, quit now.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 3.875% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 1.99% 15
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vanbogle59
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by vanbogle59 »

DW was career HR at megacorp before retiring.
I read her this sentence: "I work in a good field with a transferable skill set"
Her reply: "Get your finances in order. Make your family/personal-life your priority. Don't fear change."
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Horton
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Horton »

If I was in your shoes, I would:

* visit a doctor
* file an FMLA / disability claim (mental / nervous disorder)
* take as much time as I could get (12 weeks?)
* decompress for the first few weeks
* spend the remaining weeks looking for a new job

This way you get time off and get to remain employed while you are looking for work. If the leave has to be unpaid, so be it.
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NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:50 am I’m also not wired to put things in neutral.
I wonder how you'll do in retirement with that wiring.
-- | Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein
elle
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by elle »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:40 pm
I’m going to digest all of the responses over the next day or two. As I mentioned previously, it’s so hard to capture the spirit of the work environment in abbreviated posts. I can assure you all I have had many 1 on 1’s with my manager about about boundaries, priorities, resource allocation, staffing levels, etc. I’ve never threatened to leave as it’s not in my nature. My focus has always been on finding a solution, not walking away.
Just wanted to note that no one is saying you should threaten to leave. It is having an open and honest conversation with your manager on where you are.

I know you don’t want to divulge what you do, but this sounds like boundary setting. Sometimes you gotta just let things slip through the cracks while you are out so you can disconnect.

Is your wife is ok with this because she has had enough of the all consuming job too?
livelovelaugh00
Posts: 121
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by livelovelaugh00 »

Horton wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:18 pm If I was in your shoes, I would:

* visit a doctor
* file an FMLA / disability claim (mental / nervous disorder)
* take as much time as I could get (12 weeks?)
* decompress for the first few weeks
* spend the remaining weeks looking for a new job

This way you get time off and get to remain employed while you are looking for work. If the leave has to be unpaid, so be it.
+1
OP, if you decided this is your last job, don't quit. Never quit. Let them terminate you so that you are qualify for unemployment benefits.
dcabler
Posts: 1899
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by dcabler »

livelovelaugh00 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 12:18 am
Horton wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:18 pm If I was in your shoes, I would:

* visit a doctor
* file an FMLA / disability claim (mental / nervous disorder)
* take as much time as I could get (12 weeks?)
* decompress for the first few weeks
* spend the remaining weeks looking for a new job

This way you get time off and get to remain employed while you are looking for work. If the leave has to be unpaid, so be it.
+1
OP, if you decided this is your last job, don't quit. Never quit. Let them terminate you so that you are qualify for unemployment benefits.
Ding Ding, we have a winner! Bonus points if you also get a severance package to go along with it. Sort of like a "parting gift". :D
My own particular industry is pretty volatile with frequent layoffs. I've been in several situations where I was layed off, but it always came with a severance package. In one instance it was life-altering because of the total time I had spent at the employer, my level there, and accrued vacation time...
Shallowpockets
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Shallowpockets »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:08 pm
gr7070 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 am
2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am I’ve hit a breaking point at work. It’s been coming for a long time
Seems like just getting a new job was an appropriate option for a long time.

Why not just do that now?

Start saying no at work, too. That's a reasonable option - especially for someone who's open to quitting with no real plan.
It’s so hard to accurately portray the workplace dynamics while maintaining some level of anonymity. Saying no just isn’t an option. Employee work-life balance, mental health, or well being just isn’t a priority outside of HR presentations. There is no control over what you are involved in.

A few specific examples beyond the vacations:

- MIssed the virtually all of my child’s doctor, dentist, school plays, appointments
- worked from the ballpark on the first game I took my son to
- Routinely have worked 16+ hour days for extended periods with bottom line impact; no additional compensation despite making a business case

Why haven’t I taken steps before? It’s been based on loyalty. I have always thought about the impact to others before putting myself first. It’s also been based on the misguided notion that things might improve.

-
Screw that loyalty. What has it done for you? Brought you to this point is what it has done.
You are financially fine.
Quit that job.
Sometimes the best in life is not gain but to cut losses and release from toxic jobs, relationships, etc.
This is that time.
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