Refinance Mega Thread

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vkch
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:52 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by vkch »

Hi,

I am currently on a 2.94% 30 years fixed, with 638K mortgage and LTV of 62% (with current home price estimate)

I talked to LoanDepot and after a few calls, they offered me a 2.625% 30 years fixed, but with an upfront cost of 2,800 to close the loan.

I know it takes about a year to break even when I ran the amortization, but I am wondering if this is a good decision to refinance, given the upfront cost.

Please provide me your thoughts on this.

Thanks!
dandinsac
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:34 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dandinsac »

presto987 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:01 am
dandinsac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:03 pm I have a 3% mortgage with Chase Bank of ~$711,000 in California on a house that we closed in January 2021. I will be closing on my former house soon and will have enough cash to lower the mortgage below $548,250, which is the limit for qualifying mortgages in my county. I plan to refinance, most likely to a 20-year or 15-year mortgage. (I did no-cost refinances on my former house two times last year, so I know the drill.)

1. Once I get the settlement funds, is there any advantage to pay down my existing mortgage right away to lower the principal below the qualifying limit? Or, should I hold on to the cash and just include it in the refi?

2. Chase will recast my mortgage at a minimal cost, but their 3% rate isn’t competitive now, where 2.625-2.75% is available for 30-year refi’s with no costs. Does anyone have experience with Chase matching the rates on LenderFi, Better, etc. without going through a new refinance/appraisal?

Thanks!
On #1, I don't think it matters much, but personally I would pay down the existing mortgage right away. This way you get a guaranteed 3% (pre tax deduction) return on that money, which you are not going to get by having the cash sitting in a savings account while you do your refi. You should come out a couple hundred dollars ahead this way.
presto,

Thanks. That makes sense to me. It may also help the Chase folks see that I am serious about shopping for a better rate.
ZinCO
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZinCO »

dandinsac wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:39 pm
presto987 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:01 am
dandinsac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:03 pm I have a 3% mortgage with Chase Bank of ~$711,000 in California on a house that we closed in January 2021. I will be closing on my former house soon and will have enough cash to lower the mortgage below $548,250, which is the limit for qualifying mortgages in my county. I plan to refinance, most likely to a 20-year or 15-year mortgage. (I did no-cost refinances on my former house two times last year, so I know the drill.)

1. Once I get the settlement funds, is there any advantage to pay down my existing mortgage right away to lower the principal below the qualifying limit? Or, should I hold on to the cash and just include it in the refi?

2. Chase will recast my mortgage at a minimal cost, but their 3% rate isn’t competitive now, where 2.625-2.75% is available for 30-year refi’s with no costs. Does anyone have experience with Chase matching the rates on LenderFi, Better, etc. without going through a new refinance/appraisal?

Thanks!
On #1, I don't think it matters much, but personally I would pay down the existing mortgage right away. This way you get a guaranteed 3% (pre tax deduction) return on that money, which you are not going to get by having the cash sitting in a savings account while you do your refi. You should come out a couple hundred dollars ahead this way.
presto,

Thanks. That makes sense to me. It may also help the Chase folks see that I am serious about shopping for a better rate.
It was previously reported many many pages ago that requesting a payoff number from Chase might trigger an offer to "adjust" your rate to be more competitive. It didn't work for me and I left, but others reported receiving such an offer so it might be worth trying.
presto987
Posts: 402
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

vkch wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 1:58 pm Hi,

I am currently on a 2.94% 30 years fixed, with 638K mortgage and LTV of 62% (with current home price estimate)

I talked to LoanDepot and after a few calls, they offered me a 2.625% 30 years fixed, but with an upfront cost of 2,800 to close the loan.

I know it takes about a year to break even when I ran the amortization, but I am wondering if this is a good decision to refinance, given the upfront cost.

Please provide me your thoughts on this.

Thanks!
They should let you bump up your rate to 2.75% and make it no cost or have lender credit left over.

Note also that rates have improved compared to 1 week ago. If they haven't refreshed pricing in the last couple of days, you can ask them to do that.

LoanDepot is also aggressive about beating other offers (if you're talking to the right loan officer). If you can find 2.625% at no cost from another lender, then they will likely beat it by a few hundred dollars at least.

A good place to try for 2.625% at no cost is LenderFi. Or run searches on Zillow Mortgage, Bankrate.com, and Credit Karma. You may even find a good offer from Better.com on there, which would be helpful as it is very easy to get a Loan Estimate from them that you can use to get a price match.
golf101
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:30 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by golf101 »

Just wrapping up a refi at Better. Thanks for those who recommended them, it’s been 1.5 weeks since I started the process and I already have our final closing documents. Going from a 3%, 15 year to 2.125%, 15 year with $800 in closing costs. Such an easy experience!
rsilver41
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rsilver41 »

Have any of you ever heard of a mortgage lender determining your income based off the last three year avg. when you have a stable w-2 salary? I am running into that with Better right now and trying to figure out what the issue is. I also receive a housing allowance as part of my occupation and it does fluctuate from year to year, but it has nothing to do with income and is only to determine my MAGI. I also, recieved a sizable raise last about 16 months ago.

Pretty frustrated by it and feeling like I might need to just switch lenders to one who will go off my current paystub rather than a three year avg. since its have a negative impact in how they are evaluating my debt to income ratio.

Thanks for any input.
iridum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum »

Going through a painful refi with LoanDepot.com.

I locked with LoanDepot for 2.5% 30yr fixed rate back in first week of February. The lender credits more than covered the closing costs and then some. The process has been abysmal at best. The underwriting team would not request all docs at once. They would open the file, request a doc. Then a week later again something else. Finally we closed on 04/29 with a funding date of 05/05 and the loan still hasn't been funded as of right now (05/10). On 5/5 they requested more documentation :oops: and now the contact says they don't know when it will be funded. Totally ridiculous.

I refi'd back in July of last year with better.com and from start to finish it was less than 3 weeks.
ParlayBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ParlayBogle »

I am attempting a refi a loan into my name only that is currently in my wife's name only. I had a foreclosure more than 7 years ago.

Is there any possibility this could impact the refi process? My understanding is that it drops off after 7 years.
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

Data point on current Better.com refinance:

April 18: Application
April 20: Rate Lock
May 10: Final closing (Notary @ house)
May 13: Anticipated funding date

20 days from rate lock to closing. (I completed each task within 24 hours of it showing up in my portal.) These guys have a great system.
ensign_lee
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:03 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

iridum wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 12:33 pm Going through a painful refi with LoanDepot.com.

I locked with LoanDepot for 2.5% 30yr fixed rate back in first week of February. The lender credits more than covered the closing costs and then some. The process has been abysmal at best. The underwriting team would not request all docs at once. They would open the file, request a doc. Then a week later again something else. Finally we closed on 04/29 with a funding date of 05/05 and the loan still hasn't been funded as of right now (05/10). On 5/5 they requested more documentation :oops: and now the contact says they don't know when it will be funded. Totally ridiculous.

I refi'd back in July of last year with better.com and from start to finish it was less than 3 weeks.
mceagle555 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:53 pm Data point on current Better.com refinance:

April 18: Application
April 20: Rate Lock
May 10: Final closing (Notary @ house)
May 13: Anticipated funding date

20 days from rate lock to closing. (I completed each task within 24 hours of it showing up in my portal.) These guys have a great system.
Same thing happened to me with both lenders in this last year. Loan Depot took like 3 months to finish everything, and we had hiccups at closing.

Better's portal was amazing and everything wrapped up inside 30 days. They have a strong competitive advantage there.

My loan officer at Loan Depot was good, but everything on the backend was lacking. I'll only use Loan Depot to shop from here on out vs actually finishing with them.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

ParlayBogle wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:48 pm I am attempting a refi a loan into my name only that is currently in my wife's name only. I had a foreclosure more than 7 years ago.

Is there any possibility this could impact the refi process? My understanding is that it drops off after 7 years.
If you choose a lender who works with Fannie Mae (FM), then they'll be using FM's guidelines.

https://selling-guide.fanniemae.com/Sel ... oreclosure
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

mceagle555 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:53 pm Data point on current Better.com refinance:

April 18: Application
April 20: Rate Lock
May 10: Final closing (Notary @ house)
May 13: Anticipated funding date

20 days from rate lock to closing. (I completed each task within 24 hours of it showing up in my portal.) These guys have a great system.
It is a great system as long as things are running smoothly. If any hangups occur, it can get bumpy and the borrower will have to do the research (Fannie Mae guidelines) to know what is going on, and correct any mistakes on their end.
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

Are the refi rates I'm seeing on Better.com's front page accurate?

Right now (and depending on how much my home's current value is valued at), I'm seeing a 30-year rate as low as 2.25% if I pay 2 points (I forget...is that something that can be rolled into the mortgage?).
Raraculus
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Raraculus »

Just curious;

I'm looking into a cash-out refinance. Is homeowners insurance required for the refinance? May need to factor that into the cost of the refinancing.

Thanks.
soobaerodude
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by soobaerodude »

ensign_lee wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:07 pm
iridum wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 12:33 pm Going through a painful refi with LoanDepot.com.

I locked with LoanDepot for 2.5% 30yr fixed rate back in first week of February. The lender credits more than covered the closing costs and then some. The process has been abysmal at best. The underwriting team would not request all docs at once. They would open the file, request a doc. Then a week later again something else. Finally we closed on 04/29 with a funding date of 05/05 and the loan still hasn't been funded as of right now (05/10). On 5/5 they requested more documentation :oops: and now the contact says they don't know when it will be funded. Totally ridiculous.

I refi'd back in July of last year with better.com and from start to finish it was less than 3 weeks.
mceagle555 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:53 pm Data point on current Better.com refinance:

April 18: Application
April 20: Rate Lock
May 10: Final closing (Notary @ house)
May 13: Anticipated funding date

20 days from rate lock to closing. (I completed each task within 24 hours of it showing up in my portal.) These guys have a great system.
Same thing happened to me with both lenders in this last year. Loan Depot took like 3 months to finish everything, and we had hiccups at closing.

Better's portal was amazing and everything wrapped up inside 30 days. They have a strong competitive advantage there.

My loan officer at Loan Depot was good, but everything on the backend was lacking. I'll only use Loan Depot to shop from here on out vs actually finishing with them.
My experience was the same with Better and Loan Depot. Initially had a 60 day lock that started mid-December 2020 with LD. They had to extend rate lock twice. Loan processor was unresponsive to email, I had to call the processor every day for about 2 weeks to move things along.

Better was very smooth, and the LP was responsive to matching other offers. Only use Loan Depot to obtain a competing estimate
slyfox
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by slyfox »

Can someone help me out with my decision on refinancing?

I am 6 years in on a 30 year @ 3.625. I pay taxes and insurance separately. Monthly payment 1133. Original loan was 285,000 and we have paid extra on the principal and brought it down to 135,000. Paying aggressively because of early retirement plans. I am done next month but DH will keep working for a few years at least. We plan on staying in this place but would love to get rid of the mortgage sooner than later.

I am thinking about doing a 15 year refinance with Better. Rate 2.125 Points 3154. Closing cost 4348. New payment P+I = 876
I can roll the cost into the loan and the cost at closing would be $1. Same rate. New payment = 933

I am leaning toward the 2nd option.
More than likely we would keep paying some extra toward principal. Even if we don't this makes sense right?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

slyfox wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:24 pm Can someone help me out with my decision on refinancing?

I am 6 years in on a 30 year @ 3.625. I pay taxes and insurance separately. Monthly payment 1133. Original loan was 285,000 and we have paid extra on the principal and brought it down to 135,000. Paying aggressively because of early retirement plans. I am done next month but DH will keep working for a few years at least. We plan on staying in this place but would love to get rid of the mortgage sooner than later.

I am thinking about doing a 15 year refinance with Better. Rate 2.125 Points 3154. Closing cost 4348. New payment P+I = 876
I can roll the cost into the loan and the cost at closing would be $1. Same rate. New payment = 933

I am leaning toward the 2nd option.
More than likely we would keep paying some extra toward principal. Even if we don't this makes sense right?
Particularly given the last paragraph, I would stick to a no-cost loan vs. rolling in or paying closing costs. What is Better’s rate for enough credits to bring closing cost under $500 positive or negative?

Then take your info, punch it into Provident.com and see what their offer is (keep in mind they charge like $1,350 or something in origination fees). Basically, when you get the rate selection, the highest rate with the highest credit will be around sub-$500 in closing costs. If Provident’s rate for this is lower than Better’s, consider applying at Provident and having Better beat the offer you get.

Note, while I’ve twice used Provident to improve Better’s offer, I’ve not actually closed with Provident ever. I can’t tell you whether it would be worth going with them if Better won’t beat the offer you get.
Wolfpack2463
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Wolfpack2463 »

Just starting my 3rd refinance with LenderFi and so far so good. When I saw the rates go down on Friday, I emailed my previous loan officer and he said we would be good to go on a no-cost 15 year 2.00% with appraisal waived (LTV ~60%) I received my rate lock this morning and my file has been sent to underwriting. Since they have my information already on file, they only ask for a few updated documents and that's it. I'm pretty confident it will go as smoothly as the other 2 and close in about 4 weeks maximum.

Timeline:

Feb 2018 - Purchased using a 4% 30 year - no points
Feb 2020 - Refinance with LenderFI to a 3.125% 20 year no-cost
Sept. 2020 - Refinanced again with LenderFi to 2.5% 20 year no-cost
May/June 2021- Refinancing again with LenderFi to 2.0% 15 year no-cost

Thanks to this board for educating me about the different online lenders! Even though I only used 1, I was able to cross-shop the others to make sure I was getting a good deal.
gpburdell
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

Just locked a 30 year at 2.25% with Better (0.827 points, no escrow, rolling closing costs). I've been reading on here that most people go with the no cost route. I have no idea if rates are going up or down, but I feel pretty good with 2.25% and saving $570/month plus a ton of interest. I wasn't able to refinance last year and happy I'm able to now at a good rate.

Current Mortgage
393k @ 4.5% (P&I $2108)
26 years left

New Mortgage
401k @ 2.25% (P&I $1535)
A=3322 (0.827 points)
B=614
C=1804
D=5740

On the Better site when I first applied, the 2.25% rate had 2.47 points so I wasn't very interested. Then I saw on Bankrate that it had a Better 2.25% refi with 1.02 points. So I asked my loan consultant and she said she'd look into it. Next day she said they could do 1.24 as that is what Bankrate had listed that day. I said ok. What's funny is that when I had them roll the closing costs in, their system dropped the points down to 0.827.

Also, the Better site is so much easier to use than anything else I've seen. It's so nice I could get multiple loan estimates for different rates and terms without having to contact anyone, doing the disclosures etc. The only thing I had to ask my Better consultant to do is get it so closing costs would be rolled in.
liftingbrosef
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by liftingbrosef »

We will be buying a new house (primary residence) in Nevada in the next 30 days.

I've looked at Aimloan for a 30 Year Fixed. Is there any other lender I should be looking at if lowest interest rate and fees is the most important thing to me? Apparently Better is not in Nevada FYI
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MillennialFinance19
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MillennialFinance19 »

I closed a refi with LoanUnited a month ago. Got a 30 year VA at 2.125% on 370k. Process was fairly smooth, but we did have 2 closing delays and the communication could have been a little bit better. Total fees were $2k, this included about $1k for the low rate. At the end of the day, I can't complain too much about a 2.125% 30 year even though it took 65 days.
For the love of God, stick to your plan!!!
sullim4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sullim4 »

rsilver41 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 7:24 am Have any of you ever heard of a mortgage lender determining your income based off the last three year avg. when you have a stable w-2 salary? I am running into that with Better right now and trying to figure out what the issue is. I also receive a housing allowance as part of my occupation and it does fluctuate from year to year, but it has nothing to do with income and is only to determine my MAGI. I also, recieved a sizable raise last about 16 months ago.

Pretty frustrated by it and feeling like I might need to just switch lenders to one who will go off my current paystub rather than a three year avg. since its have a negative impact in how they are evaluating my debt to income ratio.

Thanks for any input.
I lurk quite a bit around here and saw this, and wanted to put my 2c in.

Better's underwriters are cookie cutter. If you haven't had any recent income changes, have consistent W2 income, and are a "vanilla" file, you will be fine.

If that does not apply to you, the experience is going to be painful. My parents are retired and are moving out to be closer to us. They needed a mortgage as a bridge between their current house selling and the purchase of a new home so I sent them there to apply. Their current income is composed of 2 pensions and a deferred comp payout with one year remaining. They are going to replace the deferred comp with a combination of their 401k (which they haven't touched yet) and SS income (which again, they haven't started).

They talked to a loan officer to explain all of that, and she gave them a preapproval for some ridiculous amount of money saying it wouldn't be a problem. FWIW, I didn't think this was going to be a problem either because Fannie Mae's underwriting guidelines should allow them to count the 401k as "Employment-Related Assets as Qualifying Income" (see B3-3.1-09, Other Sources of Income) since they are 62+ and haven't touched the 401k yet.

Well, surprise surprise, Better didn't follow this guideline and wouldn't give them a loan that was even 10% of what they had pre-approved them for. Talking to them about it was like arguing with a child. Add on a lowball appraisal that was completely out of line for the neighborhood and all of this caused a ton of hand wringing during the purchase process. They were able to go through a different lender that actually knew the FNMA guidelines which saved the purchase.

Personally, I go through LenderFi for refis (just recently closed on a 1.99% refi with enough lender credit to offset costs), but with a purchase loan I thought Better would have "better" communication than Ryan and folks. I guess Better did respond but not in the way I had hoped.
gpburdell
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

It's been less than 12 hours from locking the rate, uploading docs etc and I've already gotten conditional approval from Better. I now have to schedule an in person appraisal. Is this typical? This is my first refinance and from what I've read normally this can take 1-2 weeks.
ensign_lee
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

gpburdell wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:37 am It's been less than 12 hours from locking the rate, uploading docs etc and I've already gotten conditional approval from Better. I now have to schedule an in person appraisal. Is this typical? This is my first refinance and from what I've read normally this can take 1-2 weeks.
If your property is worth less than $1M, ask them if they can waive it.
gpburdell
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

ensign_lee wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:42 am
gpburdell wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:37 am It's been less than 12 hours from locking the rate, uploading docs etc and I've already gotten conditional approval from Better. I now have to schedule an in person appraisal. Is this typical? This is my first refinance and from what I've read normally this can take 1-2 weeks.
If your property is worth less than $1M, ask them if they can waive it.
I asked and they wouldn't. The 2.25% LenderFi quote I had wasn't even close to being competitive so couldn't use that to counter.

Also I meant if it was typical to get conditional approval this quickly. I assume alot of it is automated but still kind of surprised.
CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

Well, I just locked in a rate with Better.com. I was actually doing it all on behalf of my wife (title is in both of our names, but current loan is just with her, which we did strategically to balance loans across both of our names individually, and ideally keep credit scores for both of us excellent).

Super-impressed with Better.com's website/process, and I immediately got a call from their agent who was extremely friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful (Andres).

The best rate we were getting was 2.25% with a lot of $$$ in points. Initial answering of Q&A got us a waived appraisal. But one bit of bad news was that the hard pull brought back a slightly lower score for her, and it was "enough" to cause the rate to bump up. So now it's a 2.375% rate, but with a little (just a little) less $$$ in closing costs.

Our current rate is 2.875%, so it's a 1/2 point improvement over what we're paying now. We just moved in last August and are viewing this house as a likely forever home (it will be a bit larger than what we'll need when our recently graduated daughter eventually moves out, but it's a manageable-sized yard (unlike our last house), well insulated, and I've been looking into going solar. So I think it will be manageable when we eventually retire. At the very least, I don't foresee us selling it within the next 10 years.

So now the only other question is whether I roll in *everything* including the escrow amounts that we'll get back later, or if we pay that amount out-of-pocket. Even though we're not in need of liquid cash, I'm of the opinion that 2.375% for 30 years is such cheap money that we should definitely roll everything in, and use that extra money elsewhere (e.g., towards the solar or invest it in taxable accounts).

My wife, OTOH, has still been of the mindset of wanting to "pay off the mortgage early", so we still need to get on the same page there.
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

I had little to no interest in refinancing yesterday but now I'm locked into a third refi in 15 months with Better. I refinanced to a 15 yr 2.25% no cost 346k loan (which means 4k in credits due to the high refi costs in FL) back in November 2020. Ive been very happy with that rate and figured I was done refinancing.

Fast forward to yesterday. I was casually browsing Bankrate and a 15 yr 1.75% with around $700 in points at Better popped up. I checked the Better.com website and the rate/points werent as good, so I emailed Better to see if they would match Bankrate. They did, which also updated the other rates/points. Long story short, I locked in a 15 yr 2.0% 334k loan with $3900 in credits, so I'll reduce my rate a quarter point and profit around $500 at closing.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

CT-Scott wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:42 pm So now the only other question is whether I roll in *everything* including the escrow amounts that we'll get back later, or if we pay that amount out-of-pocket. Even though we're not in need of liquid cash, I'm of the opinion that 2.375% for 30 years is such cheap money that we should definitely roll everything in, and use that extra money elsewhere (e.g., towards the solar or invest it in taxable accounts).

My wife, OTOH, has still been of the mindset of wanting to "pay off the mortgage early", so we still need to get on the same page there.
I would suggest rolling everything in, even if you then turn around and pay down the mortgage immediately. Better bases their lender credits/points on loan size, so rolling in the closing costs will reduce the cost for the 2.375% rate. Perhaps even enough that you decide to get the 2.25%. You can always then pay that down at the second mortgage payment (I recommend second in case of servicing transfer after first payment - less to worry about).
adestefan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by adestefan »

dks05c wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:35 pm
Fast forward to yesterday. I was casually browsing Bankrate and a 15 yr 1.75% with around $700 in points at Better popped up. I checked the Better.com website and the rate/points werent as good, so I emailed Better to see if they would match Bankrate. They did, which also updated the other rates/points. Long story short, I locked in a 15 yr 2.0% 334k loan with $3900 in credits, so I'll reduce my rate a quarter point and profit around $500 at closing.
I saw the same thing yesterday and assumed it had to be wrong. Wish I would have done the same as you. Today it show 1+ point on the 1.75.
CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:28 pmI would suggest rolling everything in, even if you then turn around and pay down the mortgage immediately. Better bases their lender credits/points on loan size, so rolling in the closing costs will reduce the cost for the 2.375% rate. Perhaps even enough that you decide to get the 2.25%. You can always then pay that down at the second mortgage payment (I recommend second in case of servicing transfer after first payment - less to worry about).
Yeah, I'm most likely going to roll everything in, but FWIW that's how it was set by default initially and that was with the 2.375% rate. Changing it to pull out some of the costs (approx amount of escrow we'd get back later) didn't impact the rate and I don't *think* that impacted any other costs.
chaud
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chaud »

chaud wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:57 amAugust 7th 2020 - Locked Rate
November 16th 2020 - Sent to processing
February 1st 2021 - Submitted to underwriting

I look forward to my Loan Cabin closing sometime in 2022 at this rate.
Well, it's been over 9 months now, and this refinance still hasn't been born. 3 emails since April and no replies. I'm thinking about sending a cake to their office for its one year birthday.
mervinj7
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 »

chaud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:03 am
chaud wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:57 amAugust 7th 2020 - Locked Rate
November 16th 2020 - Sent to processing
February 1st 2021 - Submitted to underwriting

I look forward to my Loan Cabin closing sometime in 2022 at this rate.
Well, it's been over 9 months now, and this refinance still hasn't been born. 3 emails since April and no replies. I'm thinking about sending a cake to their office for its one year birthday.
Have you considering starting again with another lender? Or is your rate from Aug 2020 worth waiting for?
chaud
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Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:11 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chaud »

mervinj7 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:31 am
chaud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:03 am
chaud wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:57 amAugust 7th 2020 - Locked Rate
November 16th 2020 - Sent to processing
February 1st 2021 - Submitted to underwriting

I look forward to my Loan Cabin closing sometime in 2022 at this rate.
Well, it's been over 9 months now, and this refinance still hasn't been born. 3 emails since April and no replies. I'm thinking about sending a cake to their office for its one year birthday.
Have you considering starting again with another lender? Or is your rate from Aug 2020 worth waiting for?
I could start again, but I locked at 2.5% with $2100 credit towards closing costs, no lender fees. I don't think I can get very close to that again. I'll probably give it a few more months, as I randomly got a loan payoff amount letter from my current lender the other day, so hopefully they are doing something. Already at 3.25% now, so current rates aren't the biggest drop.
gpburdell
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

CT-Scott wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:44 am Yeah, I'm most likely going to roll everything in, but FWIW that's how it was set by default initially and that was with the 2.375% rate. Changing it to pull out some of the costs (approx amount of escrow we'd get back later) didn't impact the rate and I don't *think* that impacted any other costs.
Is your Loan Estimate on Better actually showing the loan costs being rolled in? I locked with Better a couple days ago and I'm also rolling closing costs and waving escrow. While Better lets you to choose rolling closing costs in; my loan estimate never reflected that until I told my loan consultant to update the system for that. That's the only issue I have with the site as it can be misleading if you're not paying attention. Otherwise it's the best designed site I've used for this.
Kyune
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:06 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Kyune »

Locked 1.99% no-cost, no escrow, this morning with Interactive Mortgage on a 15-year fixed $730k loan, which is inside the high-balance conforming limit for my county in California. Interactive came in significantly lower than the others I talked to (Provident, Owning, Better, Aimloan, LoanCabin, Lenderfi), the best of which offered 2.35% no-cost or 2.25% with some fees. This was with solely W2 income, 49% LTV, appraisal required.
MBB_Boy
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MBB_Boy »

Anyone know offhand if there's a cooling period before a new refinance if you use Better? I closed with them recently and don't recall seeing anything, but I don't trust myself and wanted to check in before I go lug out all the paperwork
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MBB_Boy wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:55 am Anyone know offhand if there's a cooling period before a new refinance if you use Better? I closed with them recently and don't recall seeing anything, but I don't trust myself and wanted to check in before I go lug out all the paperwork
It seems to vary for some people. Some were maybe 3 months past refi and given an extended rate lock to close after 6 months. My refis with Better didn’t run into that, and my third refi with Better was started before we second had even closed, but didn’t move seriously along until the day of closing of the second.
mcdb84
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:44 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

Locked this morning with Intelliloan and will close in 3 weeks.

Rate: 1.75%
APR: 1.99%
Loan Amount: $325,000.00
No Escrow
Paid 1.6% points total of $5200

Going from a 30 Year (Just refinanced back in December 2020) fixed at 2.375%. Payment going up by $676.43, which is not bad considering the fact that I knock off 15 years and save over $96K of interest over the life of the loan compared to my original 30 year.

I was debating about pulling the trigger since I've never had to pay for points on a refi (this is my 10th refi), but will probably consider this my last refi unless rates go down again. Never had a 15 year mortgage in my life and I live in a VHCOL area in So Cal. Guess I can finally say that I am within the Dave Ramsey guidelines for mortgages.
CT-Scott
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

gpburdell wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:35 am Is your Loan Estimate on Better actually showing the loan costs being rolled in? I locked with Better a couple days ago and I'm also rolling closing costs and waving escrow. While Better lets you to choose rolling closing costs in; my loan estimate never reflected that until I told my loan consultant to update the system for that. That's the only issue I have with the site as it can be misleading if you're not paying attention. Otherwise it's the best designed site I've used for this.
Mine shows the closing costs rolled in. On the Loan Estimate - Closing Cost Details page, item A - Origination Charges shows an amount listed as "1.815% of Loan Amount (Points)". That amount is included in the total of line D, which is then included in line J, and is not part of the "Estimated Cash To Close From Borrower."

I will say that I'm a bit nervous about whether I'm doing the right thing here, as our current rate is already pretty good (2.875%, 30 year, first payment was in October 2020), and there's a lot of points and other closing costs I'm paying to get down to 2.375%, and there's *NO* amount listed under "Lender Credits".

Based on my calculations, and with my current stance being that I think I may actually retire in this house and I think that I can do better investment-wise with taking the monthly savings and investing it elsewhere (i.e., I have no interest in paying off this mortgage early), the math still adds up to about a $10.5K savings (~1.5%) in "total paid" over the life of the loan (30 years out, including amount we already paid since Oct 2020) and we'd walk away with about $8.5K in cash, and enjoy a (modest) $70/month monthly savings, with the only negative (unless I'm missing something) being that we'd be pushing out our payoff date by 10 months.

But, again, those savings seem pretty minor. Small enough that if the process was more of a hassle, it might not be worthwhile. Am I missing anything? And is there any way for me to negotiate anything extra from Better (e.g., Lender Credits)?
wholeinone04
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Location: California

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wholeinone04 »

What's the best option for a jumbo cash out refi (preferably no cost)? My property is worth $1.7 mil and have a $1.1 mil loan balance so would like to cash out $175k (75% LTV). Got one quote from a Guaranteed Rate agent I've used before for 2.875% for a 5 ARM and 3.25% for a 7 ARM. (and for reg 'no cash out' he quoted me 2.375% for 5 ARM and 2.5% 7 ARM)

My plan is to do a cash out refi and then do a regular 'no cost' refi after that. I saw some people mention a '6 months rule' for this situation - is that an actual rule or ..?

Saw some folks used LD for cash out refi but they want me to actually submit an app/run my credit to get a sense of quotes. LenderFI had crazy high rates. Better.com also gave me 2.875% for 30 yr fixed but $25k in fees lol. Ally couldn't give me a quote.
gpburdell
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

CT-Scott wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:13 am I will say that I'm a bit nervous about whether I'm doing the right thing here, as our current rate is already pretty good (2.875%, 30 year, first payment was in October 2020), and there's a lot of points and other closing costs I'm paying to get down to 2.375%, and there's *NO* amount listed under "Lender Credits".

.
.

But, again, those savings seem pretty minor. Small enough that if the process was more of a hassle, it might not be worthwhile. Am I missing anything? And is there any way for me to negotiate anything extra from Better (e.g., Lender Credits)?
It does sound like you are paying alot of points but if you plan to hold the mortgage long enough then you'll come out ahead eventually. I assume you already did a breakeven calculation and was comfortable with it. I paid 0.827 points for 2.25%; coming from 4.5% and will break even in 13 months. I'm saving $573/month and ~190k in interest over 30 years; so I'm very happy. I too have no interest in paying this off early unless I get a windfall.

I'm not an expert at refinancing as this is my first time, but I think the time to negotiate was before locking and have better loan estimates from other companies.
Carl53
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Carl53 »

mcdb84 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:43 am Locked this morning with Intelliloan and will close in 3 weeks.

Rate: 1.75%
APR: 1.99%
Loan Amount: $325,000.00
No Escrow
Paid 1.6% points total of $5200

Going from a 30 Year (Just refinanced back in December 2020) fixed at 2.375%. Payment going up by $676.43, which is not bad considering the fact that I knock off 15 years and save over $96K of interest over the life of the loan compared to my original 30 year.

I was debating about pulling the trigger since I've never had to pay for points on a refi (this is my 10th refi), but will probably consider this my last refi unless rates go down again. Never had a 15 year mortgage in my life and I live in a VHCOL area in So Cal. Guess I can finally say that I am within the Dave Ramsey guidelines for mortgages.
Take a look at your numbers again. Seems like the payment should be jumping more than $676 unless you are bringing significantly more cash into the deal. If the $676 is correct, use a calculator like the ones at mortgage professor, https://www.mtgprofessor.com/calculator ... tor2a.html
to see what the impact of making extra payments of a like amount on your existing mortgage would be. I think you'll find that your interest paid on the thirty year, but paid off in 16-17 years would be barely more than your new mortgage but without paying out $5200 up front.
mcdb84
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

Carl53 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:54 am
mcdb84 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:43 am Locked this morning with Intelliloan and will close in 3 weeks.

Rate: 1.75%
APR: 1.99%
Loan Amount: $325,000.00
No Escrow
Paid 1.6% points total of $5200

Going from a 30 Year (Just refinanced back in December 2020) fixed at 2.375%. Payment going up by $676.43, which is not bad considering the fact that I knock off 15 years and save over $96K of interest over the life of the loan compared to my original 30 year.

I was debating about pulling the trigger since I've never had to pay for points on a refi (this is my 10th refi), but will probably consider this my last refi unless rates go down again. Never had a 15 year mortgage in my life and I live in a VHCOL area in So Cal. Guess I can finally say that I am within the Dave Ramsey guidelines for mortgages.
Take a look at your numbers again. Seems like the payment should be jumping more than $676 unless you are bringing significantly more cash into the deal. If the $676 is correct, use a calculator like the ones at mortgage professor, https://www.mtgprofessor.com/calculator ... tor2a.html
to see what the impact of making extra payments of a like amount on your existing mortgage would be. I think you'll find that your interest paid on the thirty year, but paid off in 16-17 years would be barely more than your new mortgage but without paying out $5200 up front.
I'm currently paying $1377.77 PI for my 30 year 2.375% with an original loan balance of$354,500.00. My new PI would be $2054.20. I've been pretty good about making extra payments, but I've found myself not being as consistent. I wanted to set myself with the 15 year to guarantee the early payoff. From reading all the mortgage related posts, people always have the intention of paying down the loan like a 15, but life always seems to get in the way and it ends up not happening. Plus, if I start paying down this 15 year with extra payments, I'll be mortgage free even faster.

I know mathematically I am not necessarily doing the best thing since my rate is so low, but I am totally now on board about being completely debt free including the mortgage. Personal finance is all about personal decisions and I don't think I'll ever regret paying my mortgage off.
nickpete123
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nickpete123 »

Last monday I was able to lock in a 2% 15 refinance with better with $4250 in credits (closing costs ~$1800) so should be getting part of my escrow covered and maybe some cash back! I was able to find a really good cash out rate via bankrate.com which I had them match and then switched a day later to a rate & term.

State: MN
Value: ~$360k
Loan: $265k
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

dks05c wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:35 pm I had little to no interest in refinancing yesterday but now I'm locked into a third refi in 15 months with Better. I refinanced to a 15 yr 2.25% no cost 346k loan (which means 4k in credits due to the high refi costs in FL) back in November 2020. Ive been very happy with that rate and figured I was done refinancing.

Fast forward to yesterday. I was casually browsing Bankrate and a 15 yr 1.75% with around $700 in points at Better popped up. I checked the Better.com website and the rate/points werent as good, so I emailed Better to see if they would match Bankrate. They did, which also updated the other rates/points. Long story short, I locked in a 15 yr 2.0% 334k loan with $3900 in credits, so I'll reduce my rate a quarter point and profit around $500 at closing.
Question for you serial refinancers. How common is it to get blacklisted from previous lenders you negotiated but didn't close with? I'm asking because after locking in my current refinance with Better, I also applied to Loandepot to see if they could compete. However, I haven't heard back from them and when checking the application today, it says "inactive". When I refinance six months ago, I was locked in to loandepot but walked, so I'm wondering if this may be the issue.

I also reached out to Lenderfi, who I also applied with six months ago but didn't lock, and haven't heard back from. I tried to apply last week as well, but I can't because my prior application from 2020 is listed as cancelled, and I need to make a request to have that removed before I submit another application. I also emailed the loan officer I previously worked with and haven't heard back from him.
CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

I started having cold feet yesterday. Am I really doing the right thing refinancing our current 2.875% 30-year mortgage to a 2.375% 30-year w/approx $9500 in points/closing costs (2.533% APR). We think this could be our last home, so I'm not looking for a quick break-even, but it seems like the long-term savings in interest is pretty small (though if I roll everything in, it will also act as a small "cash out" refi when the checks for our existing escrow arrive).
mceagle555
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:36 pm I started having cold feet yesterday. Am I really doing the right thing refinancing our current 2.875% 30-year mortgage to a 2.375% 30-year w/approx $9500 in points/closing costs (2.533% APR). We think this could be our last home, so I'm not looking for a quick break-even, but it seems like the long-term savings in interest is pretty small (though if I roll everything in, it will also act as a small "cash out" refi when the checks for our existing escrow arrive).
Unless you ABSOLUTELY need to refi for cash flow purposes (i.e. - You need more disposable income), I would NEVER pay almost $10K in points/closing costs. You're already at a sub-3% rate and would only be saving .5%.

Yes, you would come out ahead over the life of a 30-yr loan, but you could just as easily either pay your existing mortgage early - or - refinance to a slightly higher rate (ex. 2.75% or 2.625%) for almost no out of pocket costs)
mervinj7
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 »

CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:36 pm I started having cold feet yesterday. Am I really doing the right thing refinancing our current 2.875% 30-year mortgage to a 2.375% 30-year w/approx $9500 in points/closing costs (2.533% APR). We think this could be our last home, so I'm not looking for a quick break-even, but it seems like the long-term savings in interest is pretty small (though if I roll everything in, it will also act as a small "cash out" refi when the checks for our existing escrow arrive).
I would definitely NOT refi in this case is your closing costs are really that high. Have you gotten other quotes? What is the rate for a no/low cost refi?
CT-Scott
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

mervinj7 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:09 pm
CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:36 pm I started having cold feet yesterday. Am I really doing the right thing refinancing our current 2.875% 30-year mortgage to a 2.375% 30-year w/approx $9500 in points/closing costs (2.533% APR). We think this could be our last home, so I'm not looking for a quick break-even, but it seems like the long-term savings in interest is pretty small (though if I roll everything in, it will also act as a small "cash out" refi when the checks for our existing escrow arrive).
I would definitely NOT refi in this case is your closing costs are really that high. Have you gotten other quotes? What is the rate for a no/low cost refi?
It appears that the rate (2.375%) from Better is no different whether I roll the closing costs and escrow into the loan or if I pay some/all of it at closing, which is why I'd lean towards rolling everything in for a no-cost closing. Just to be clear, the points I have to pay amount to 1.815% ($8,574), so that amount is slightly higher (~$200) by me rolling in all of the costs for a no-cost refi. The rate (2.375%) is still lower than what I've got now (2.875%), so long-term I pay less interest overall, and short-term I walk away with some cash and have a lower monthly payment. Assuming I stay here forever, with no desire to pay off the loan early, the only downside AFAIK is that the final payment is pushed out ~1 year.

Of course, should life change unexpectedly and I wanted/needed to sell the house within the next few years, the larger downside is that I'd have a higher outstanding loan balance than had I never refinanced. But, again, I currently see myself staying here long-term, and I consider 2.375% to be such a low rate that I would never have a desire to pay it off early.

But maybe there are other downsides that I'm overlooking?
Last edited by CT-Scott on Tue May 18, 2021 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mervinj7
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 »

CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:20 pm
mervinj7 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:09 pm
CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:36 pm I started having cold feet yesterday. Am I really doing the right thing refinancing our current 2.875% 30-year mortgage to a 2.375% 30-year w/approx $9500 in points/closing costs (2.533% APR). We think this could be our last home, so I'm not looking for a quick break-even, but it seems like the long-term savings in interest is pretty small (though if I roll everything in, it will also act as a small "cash out" refi when the checks for our existing escrow arrive).
I would definitely NOT refi in this case is your closing costs are really that high. Have you gotten other quotes? What is the rate for a no/low cost refi?
It appears that the rate from Better is no different whether I roll the closing costs and escrow into the loan or if I pay some/all of it at closing, which is why I'd lean towards rolling everything in for a no-cost closing. The rate is still lower than what I've got now, so long-term I pay less interest overall, and short-term I walk away with some cash and have a lower monthly payment. Assuming I stay here forever, with no desire to pay off the loan early, the only downside AFAIK is that the final payment is pushed out ~1 year.

Of course, should life change unexpectedly and I wanted/needed to sell the house within the next few years, the larger downside is that I'd have a higher outstanding loan balance than had I never refinanced. But, again, I currently see myself staying here long-term, and I consider 2.375% to be such a low rate that I would never have a desire to pay it off early.

But maybe there are other downsides that I'm overlooking?
Just to clarify, when I mean no-cost closing I'm not talking about rolling in the costs. I mean you accept a higher interest rate for no points and some lender credit. Ideally the lender credits should offset some of the fixed costs including appraisal fee, origination fee, and/or recording fee.
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