what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

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Topic Author
capran
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what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

Starting to get worried about the certified tracking of my IRS return. Sent our tax return (with a check of just over 1,000), to the Ohio address listed in instructions, on April 30. It left Colbert Wa at 336pm 4/30. Seattle May 1 4:26PM. Arrived at Cincinnati Ohio USPS regional destination facility on May 4 8:16pm. since then it was listed on both 5/7 and 5/8 at 12:00AM saying "in Transit, arriving late". No change to the 5/8 "in transit, arriving late". We have requested a service request. I'm wondering if we need to be prepared to make a copy of my forms and write a new check and send it Insured and next day via UPS rather than USPS, and include a note that we submitted our return on 4/30 and USPS apparently lost it in transit. And should I just send in the unused state copy of the 1099's that show withholding since I already sent the copy A "file with federal return" with the original mailing on 4/30.
Makefile
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Makefile »

capran wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:14 pm Starting to get worried about the certified tracking of my IRS return. Sent our tax return (with a check of just over 1,000), to the Ohio address listed in instructions, on April 30. It left Colbert Wa at 336pm 4/30. Seattle May 1 4:26PM. Arrived at Cincinnati Ohio USPS regional destination facility on May 4 8:16pm. since then it was listed on both 5/7 and 5/8 at 12:00AM saying "in Transit, arriving late". No change to the 5/8 "in transit, arriving late". We have requested a service request. I'm wondering if we need to be prepared to make a copy of my forms and write a new check and send it Insured and next day via UPS rather than USPS, and include a note that we submitted our return on 4/30 and USPS apparently lost it in transit. And should I just send in the unused state copy of the 1099's that show withholding since I already sent the copy A "file with federal return" with the original mailing on 4/30.
Nine mailing days is not long enough to conclude it's lost in this environment. I would give it two months.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's in a cart in the Cincinnati facility somewhere, perhaps with other carts pushed in front of it. The whole experience of the past year leads me to suspect that USPS doesn't necessarily process mail in the order received when their facilities are overloaded.
123
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by 123 »

You should monitor your bank account and see if the original check clears. If the check clears that should be sufficient evidence of receipt by the IRS. I would wait at least a month for the check to clear. With large mail processing operations like the IRS tracking sometimes doesn't work, things get jumbled in the shuffle. It's also possible due to mail overload the IRS has requested USPS to hold mail before delivery for some time, I've had similar things happen with returns to Amazon after Christmas (only that was with UPS).
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
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8foot7
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by 8foot7 »

I wouldn’t worry about it unless the IRS sends you a letter that they haven’t received it, in which case you can provide your proof and do whatever else they ask.
Katietsu
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Katietsu »

The tracking information may never get updated. From what I have heard, the USPS is dropping off truck loads of mail and neither the USPS or the IRS is scanning the envelopes at the final destination any more.

As 123 stated, the first sign your return has been received will probably be not from USPS but from your bank. There was a time when checks were getting cashed within a couple weeks. But, anecdotally, it seems that it might take much longer right now.

As far as actually processing a paper return with a balance due, I would not be surprised if you were eating a Thanksgiving turkey before the IRS processed your tax return. Putting together what the IRS has reported the backlog for various types of processing that requires a human to be involved, I think it is quite possible that more than half of the total returns are waiting for some action from the IRS.
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Lalamimi »

Certified mail always takes at least a week extra, and with the mail the way it is now, a month is probably more realistic. Even more evidence that efile was the way to go.
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dcnut
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by dcnut »

Last March we mailed a Federal Form 1041 to the IRS in Kansas City using Certified Mail. It was actually sent to Springfield, IL, and the Certified Mail tracking info showed that the item was successfully delivered in Springfield! I complained at our local post office, and they did an investigation. They finally came to the conclusion that the piece of mail was lost in Springfield, and they returned the entire cost. The investigation took about a week.

We had to send a duplicate copy of the Form 1041, and we sent it via FedEx. From now on, all tax returns will either be hand delivered (the Illinois tax returns), or sent via FedEx. I hesitate to use electronic filing due to the complexity of our tax returns (lots of required attachments).
Katietsu
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Katietsu »

dcnut wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 pm
We had to send a duplicate copy of the Form 1041, and we sent it via FedEx. From now on, all tax returns will either be hand delivered (the Illinois tax returns), or sent via FedEx. I hesitate to use electronic filing due to the complexity of our tax returns (lots of required attachments).
The more complexity, the more likely I would be to use efile, assuming all attachments are supported by the software. Higher complexity means higher chance of data entry mistakes and loss of attachments. With an efile you know exactly what they received and it is all together already. But everyone must do what they are most comfortable with.
miket29
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by miket29 »

The tracking information may never get updated. From what I have heard, the USPS is dropping off truck loads of mail and neither the USPS or the IRS is scanning the envelopes at the final destination any more.
A few weeks ago I sent a 401K rollover check via USPS Priority Express (eg. overnite) to Vanguard. It was tracked to the airport the day I mailed it. Next day, nada. Day after that, nada. I'm having nightmares someone sees Vanguard on the address and decides to take a look to see if it's anything they want. Finally delivered with a delivery scan. So I think the in-shipment scans they are supposed to be doing are not happening. And lesson learned; next time I use Fedex or UPS.
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capran
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

Katietsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:25 pm The tracking information may never get updated. From what I have heard, the USPS is dropping off truck loads of mail and neither the USPS or the IRS is scanning the envelopes at the final destination any more.

As 123 stated, the first sign your return has been received will probably be not from USPS but from your bank. There was a time when checks were getting cashed within a couple weeks. But, anecdotally, it seems that it might take much longer right now.

As far as actually processing a paper return with a balance due, I would not be surprised if you were eating a Thanksgiving turkey before the IRS processed your tax return. Putting together what the IRS has reported the backlog for various types of processing that requires a human to be involved, I think it is quite possible that more than half of the total returns are waiting for some action from the IRS.
Dang. Last year I didn't send it special but was owes a small 200 refund, so didn't sweat it, and it took many months. but this year, intentionally planned it to have to write a small check (about 5% of the total tax) so that I could have the additional when the check clears as verification, but decided given the USPS delivery difficulties I's send it with tracking. At the local post office they said when sending certified mail receipt all would be tended to. Then when it has been "in transit, arriving late for several days started to worry me. I know I said I'd switch over to turbo tax after last year but sat with a friend trying to do it and just got lost on the technicalities of how do you upload documents. (not at all tech savvy. On my boat I am doing good to even have a small hand held charting device. still a paper chart kind of guy.) I just hope if it is really lost I don't get some ridiculous fine and penalty for not filing. All I have is the worthless document the post office gave saying the tracking number and Cincinnati Ohio, but it doesn't even list the IRS name or address- that is just put on the envelope. I swear, with the taxes I pay (over 21k), you'd think they could have the system down to scan and verify receipt. so I guess the consensus is to not file a second return and write a second check, or to file an electronic extension.
Katietsu
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Katietsu »

capran wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:25 pm
Katietsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:25 pm The tracking information may never get updated. From what I have heard, the USPS is dropping off truck loads of mail and neither the USPS or the IRS is scanning the envelopes at the final destination any more.

As 123 stated, the first sign your return has been received will probably be not from USPS but from your bank. There was a time when checks were getting cashed within a couple weeks. But, anecdotally, it seems that it might take much longer right now.

As far as actually processing a paper return with a balance due, I would not be surprised if you were eating a Thanksgiving turkey before the IRS processed your tax return. Putting together what the IRS has reported the backlog for various types of processing that requires a human to be involved, I think it is quite possible that more than half of the total returns are waiting for some action from the IRS.
Dang. Last year I didn't send it special but was owes a small 200 refund, so didn't sweat it, and it took many months. but this year, intentionally planned it to have to write a small check (about 5% of the total tax) so that I could have the additional when the check clears as verification, but decided given the USPS delivery difficulties I's send it with tracking. At the local post office they said when sending certified mail receipt all would be tended to. Then when it has been "in transit, arriving late for several days started to worry me. I know I said I'd switch over to turbo tax after last year but sat with a friend trying to do it and just got lost on the technicalities of how do you upload documents. (not at all tech savvy. On my boat I am doing good to even have a small hand held charting device. still a paper chart kind of guy.) I just hope if it is really lost I don't get some ridiculous fine and penalty for not filing. All I have is the worthless document the post office gave saying the tracking number and Cincinnati Ohio, but it doesn't even list the IRS name or address- that is just put on the envelope. I swear, with the taxes I pay (over 21k), you'd think they could have the system down to scan and verify receipt. so I guess the consensus is to not file a second return and write a second check, or to file an electronic extension.
Actually, I don’t think there is a downside to filing an electronic extension, beyond the few minutes of time to file. Just list your tax liability and tax paid as the same number. Put in a zero for Balance Due.
Topic Author
capran
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

Katietsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:42 pm
capran wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:25 pm
Katietsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:25 pm The tracking information may never get updated. From what I have heard, the USPS is dropping off truck loads of mail and neither the USPS or the IRS is scanning the envelopes at the final destination any more.

As 123 stated, the first sign your return has been received will probably be not from USPS but from your bank. There was a time when checks were getting cashed within a couple weeks. But, anecdotally, it seems that it might take much longer right now.

As far as actually processing a paper return with a balance due, I would not be surprised if you were eating a Thanksgiving turkey before the IRS processed your tax return. Putting together what the IRS has reported the backlog for various types of processing that requires a human to be involved, I think it is quite possible that more than half of the total returns are waiting for some action from the IRS.
Dang. Last year I didn't send it special but was owes a small 200 refund, so didn't sweat it, and it took many months. but this year, intentionally planned it to have to write a small check (about 5% of the total tax) so that I could have the additional when the check clears as verification, but decided given the USPS delivery difficulties I's send it with tracking. At the local post office they said when sending certified mail receipt all would be tended to. Then when it has been "in transit, arriving late for several days started to worry me. I know I said I'd switch over to turbo tax after last year but sat with a friend trying to do it and just got lost on the technicalities of how do you upload documents. (not at all tech savvy. On my boat I am doing good to even have a small hand held charting device. still a paper chart kind of guy.) I just hope if it is really lost I don't get some ridiculous fine and penalty for not filing. All I have is the worthless document the post office gave saying the tracking number and Cincinnati Ohio, but it doesn't even list the IRS name or address- that is just put on the envelope. I swear, with the taxes I pay (over 21k), you'd think they could have the system down to scan and verify receipt. so I guess the consensus is to not file a second return and write a second check, or to file an electronic extension.
Actually, I don’t think there is a downside to filing an electronic extension, beyond the few minutes of time to file. Just list your tax liability and tax paid as the same number. Put in a zero for Balance Due.
So you are saying the assumption that I have already filed and with that filing paid the tax due, so to put total tax due and tax paid as the same with a zero balance is OK? at least that would avoid any penalty should it be lost in the mail, although if it was lost in the mail I would still owe the 1000+ and just have to resubmit what I sent in?
Katietsu
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Katietsu »

capran wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:43 pm
Katietsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:42 pm
capran wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:25 pm
Katietsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:25 pm The tracking information may never get updated. From what I have heard, the USPS is dropping off truck loads of mail and neither the USPS or the IRS is scanning the envelopes at the final destination any more.

As 123 stated, the first sign your return has been received will probably be not from USPS but from your bank. There was a time when checks were getting cashed within a couple weeks. But, anecdotally, it seems that it might take much longer right now.

As far as actually processing a paper return with a balance due, I would not be surprised if you were eating a Thanksgiving turkey before the IRS processed your tax return. Putting together what the IRS has reported the backlog for various types of processing that requires a human to be involved, I think it is quite possible that more than half of the total returns are waiting for some action from the IRS.
Dang. Last year I didn't send it special but was owes a small 200 refund, so didn't sweat it, and it took many months. but this year, intentionally planned it to have to write a small check (about 5% of the total tax) so that I could have the additional when the check clears as verification, but decided given the USPS delivery difficulties I's send it with tracking. At the local post office they said when sending certified mail receipt all would be tended to. Then when it has been "in transit, arriving late for several days started to worry me. I know I said I'd switch over to turbo tax after last year but sat with a friend trying to do it and just got lost on the technicalities of how do you upload documents. (not at all tech savvy. On my boat I am doing good to even have a small hand held charting device. still a paper chart kind of guy.) I just hope if it is really lost I don't get some ridiculous fine and penalty for not filing. All I have is the worthless document the post office gave saying the tracking number and Cincinnati Ohio, but it doesn't even list the IRS name or address- that is just put on the envelope. I swear, with the taxes I pay (over 21k), you'd think they could have the system down to scan and verify receipt. so I guess the consensus is to not file a second return and write a second check, or to file an electronic extension.
Actually, I don’t think there is a downside to filing an electronic extension, beyond the few minutes of time to file. Just list your tax liability and tax paid as the same number. Put in a zero for Balance Due.
So you are saying the assumption that I have already filed and with that filing paid the tax due, so to put total tax due and tax paid as the same with a zero balance is OK? at least that would avoid any penalty should it be lost in the mail, although if it was lost in the mail I would still owe the 1000+ and just have to resubmit what I sent in?
Yes.
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Dude2 »

On the off-chance it helps, if you happened to buy certified mail in one of those kiosk machines versus waiting in line for a human, I made the mistake of not applying every peel off to the envelope. It's one of those things where it first spits out the postage stamp which I believe has one of those QRS codes on it if not a small barcode, then, later, with your receipt it spits out a larger bar code sticker. (This is for regular envelope size). You can put the postage sticker and fail to put the larger bar code sticker. In that case, it is possible that the post office tracks the letter with the postage stamp, i.e. it knows how it is moving from location to location, but when it gets to the final city it will never get the final "bleep" done by the recipient that will satisfy the delivery of the certified mail. In your case, you'll know they got it when the check clears, so that will be your proof. I'd just give it more time.
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wander
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by wander »

I don't think the mail is lost.
During covid-19 time, you want to efile or mail with regular mail, since it's easier for the postman to drop mails in the mailboxes as offices are closed on Saturday.
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by spectec »

You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
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cricket49
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by cricket49 »

Your return is probably not lost. USPS and the IRS are struggling right now trying to process all the mail and returns.

I sent my 2019 tax return by mail in February 2020 with a check enclosed. The check was cashed within a few weeks. I went to IRS.gov continuously to see the status but it showed no 2019 return.
May 10, 2021 they processed my return. Took 15 months. I never received a letter from the IRS and nothing was updated on their site to explain where the return was.

This is a waiting game.
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst.
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by carolinaman »

Katietsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 3:49 pm
dcnut wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 pm
We had to send a duplicate copy of the Form 1041, and we sent it via FedEx. From now on, all tax returns will either be hand delivered (the Illinois tax returns), or sent via FedEx. I hesitate to use electronic filing due to the complexity of our tax returns (lots of required attachments).
The more complexity, the more likely I would be to use efile, assuming all attachments are supported by the software. Higher complexity means higher chance of data entry mistakes and loss of attachments. With an efile you know exactly what they received and it is all together already. But everyone must do what they are most comfortable with.
+1. efiling eliminates the risk of lost mail and delays and less anxiety.
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capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

Dude2 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:02 am On the off-chance it helps, if you happened to buy certified mail in one of those kiosk machines versus waiting in line for a human, I made the mistake of not applying every peel off to the envelope. It's one of those things where it first spits out the postage stamp which I believe has one of those QRS codes on it if not a small barcode, then, later, with your receipt it spits out a larger bar code sticker. (This is for regular envelope size). You can put the postage sticker and fail to put the larger bar code sticker. In that case, it is possible that the post office tracks the letter with the postage stamp, i.e. it knows how it is moving from location to location, but when it gets to the final city it will never get the final "bleep" done by the recipient that will satisfy the delivery of the certified mail. In your case, you'll know they got it when the check clears, so that will be your proof. I'd just give it more time.
When we mailed it certified we went to our local post office. And all was good through the arrival in Cincinnati regarding tracking. I think I will go ahead and file the extension on Friday if we don't get confirmation from USPS or check being cashed as a precaution worst case scenario.
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capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
Since I have never filed an extension before (been filing sine 1970) by "actual figures" are you suggesting I put in the income as well as the tax withheld? I will look at the form, as I owe a little over 1,000 on a total tax due of 21,000, the majority of which was paid via withholding.
hachiko
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by hachiko »

spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
MarkNYC
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by MarkNYC »

hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:55 am
spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
If the $1K payment never makes it to the IRS, and a timely extension is filed, there will also be no late-payment penalty of 0.5% per month because the taxpayer will have paid more than 90% of the total tax ($20K out of $21K) by the May 17th due date. All that will be owed is the $1K tax plus interest from May 17th.
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by hachiko »

MarkNYC wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:15 am
hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:55 am
spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
If the $1K payment never makes it to the IRS, and a timely extension is filed, there will also be no late-payment penalty of 0.5% per month because the taxpayer will have paid more than 90% of the total tax ($20K out of $21K) by the May 17th due date. All that will be owed is the $1K tax plus interest from May 17th.
Interesting, I didn't know there was that exception for the failure to pay penalty, but I retract my statement.
Last edited by hachiko on Wed May 12, 2021 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
mikejuss
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by mikejuss »

A thought for next year, OP: file your taxes and pay your tax bill online.
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BogleFanGal
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by BogleFanGal »

Lalamimi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:45 pm Certified mail always takes at least a week extra, and with the mail the way it is now, a month is probably more realistic. Even more evidence that efile was the way to go.
EFile is NOT "the way to go" for many of us who literally are blocked by IRS and cannot efile due to IT glitches their staffs have no clue how to address. I'd love to efile and still can't because the IRS rejects my returns going on a decade now- and I wasted way too many hours (pre-covid) trying to fix it with no luck. They finally just told me to keep mailing - they didn't know what was wrong. Now, it's even more of a lost cause: they don't even answer their phones or mail.

Too many people assume that someone who snail mails does so out of choice, when the reality is we have no choice.
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Katietsu
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Katietsu »

hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:22 am
MarkNYC wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:15 am
hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:55 am
spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
If the $1K payment never makes it to the IRS, and a timely extension is filed, there will also be no late-payment penalty of 0.5% per month because the taxpayer will have paid more than 90% of the total tax ($20K out of $21K) by the May 17th due date. All that will be owed is the $1K tax plus interest from May 17th.
Interesting, I didn't know there was that exception for the failure to pay penalty, but I retract my statement.
Probably even a little better. I would guess that the IRS seldom asks for interest in this situation.
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BogleFanGal
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by BogleFanGal »

mikejuss wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:25 am A thought for next year, OP: file your taxes and pay your tax bill online.
Here's a thought for now - tell the IRS to stop roadblocking people who try to efile. I can't even use their online payment system to pay estimated taxes. I've tried that and keep getting told they can't verify my ID - but give me no way to fix it. This whole thing is beyond frustrating, as I can't get any help at all from them. Such a dysfunctional dept.

By the way...apologies for hijacking this thread, but does anyone know how to get help when no one at the IRS is reachable - or can fix the problem when you do get them on the phone? I've tried writing my legislative rep, but their office just spits out some canned form reply with a bunch of IRS links that lead to nowhere - they have no interest in getting involved.

Could hiring a tax attorney help? Or some other senior level legal specialist? I'm really at a loss here.
Last edited by BogleFanGal on Wed May 12, 2021 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain
Katietsu
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Katietsu »

BogleFanGal wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:06 am
Lalamimi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:45 pm Certified mail always takes at least a week extra, and with the mail the way it is now, a month is probably more realistic. Even more evidence that efile was the way to go.
EFile is NOT "the way to go" for many of us who literally are blocked by IRS and cannot efile due to IT glitches their staffs have no clue how to address. I'd love to efile and still can't because the IRS rejects my returns going on a decade now- and I wasted way too many hours (pre-covid) trying to fix it with no luck. They finally just told me to keep mailing - they didn't know what was wrong. Now, it's even more of a lost cause: they don't even answer their phones or mail.

Too many people assume that someone who snail mails does so out of choice, when the reality is we have no choice.
Have you signed up with the SSA for an online account? I would want to try to rule out that whatever glitch was stopping me from efiling on the IRS side was not also affecting me on the SSA side given the interactive nature of these things.
mikejuss
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by mikejuss »

BogleFanGal wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:11 am
mikejuss wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:25 am A thought for next year, OP: file your taxes and pay your tax bill online.
Here's a thought for now - tell the IRS to stop roadblocking people who try to efile. I can't even use their online payment system to pay estimated taxes. I've tried that and keep getting told they can't verify my ID - but give me no way to fix it. This whole thing is beyond frustrating, as I can't get any help at all from them. Such a dysfunctional dept.

By the way...apologies for hijacking this thread, but does anyone know how to get help when no one at the IRS is reachable - or can fix the problem when you do get them on the phone? I've tried writing my legislative rep, but their office just spits out some canned form reply with a bunch of IRS links that lead to nowhere - they have no interest in getting involved.

Could hiring a tax attorney help? Or some other senior level legal specialist? I'm really at a loss here.
I've never had a problem e-filing (through H&R Block) or paying my tax bill online.
TravelGeek
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by TravelGeek »

BogleFanGal wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:11 am
By the way...apologies for hijacking this thread, but does anyone know how to get help when no one at the IRS is reachable - or can fix the problem when you do get them on the phone? I've tried writing my legislative rep, but their office just spits out some canned form reply with a bunch of IRS links that lead to nowhere - they have no interest in getting involved.
Have you tried the Taxpayer Advocate service?

https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/get-help/

Seems like you have an IRS System issue that is one of the areas they appear to handle.

https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/ca ... tax-issue/
Topic Author
capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:55 am
spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
I downloaded the 4868 and on page 2 under "late payment penalty" states it is usually 1/2 of 1% of tax not paid per month, but that "it won't be charged if you're considered to have reasonable cause if both the following occur 1. 90% of total tax paid before due date and 2) The remaining balance is paid with your return. So since I had 20,503 withheld and owe 21,539 I would not owe a late payment penalty, since if the original filing was lost in the mail I would be writing a new check for 1,036 to go with the replaced return. And I would think with my statement and a copy of my original certified mail receipt, I would also have the "Late filing penalty" waived since I had a reasonable statement why I filed late. I'd still owe interest on the 1,036 but think that would be better than going ahead and paying another 1036 with my 4868 E form, and then have my original check show up later and also be cashed by the government. I can't imaging THAT nightmare of trying to get ahold of someone to get one of the double payments refunded. I am still hoping for the USPS inquiry to confirm delivery, or for the check to be cashed at some point, but the 4868 e file at least removes the exorbitant penalties. Chalk it up to the live and learn surcharge. My income is under 170k and not terribly complicated: some interest free div/int, small amount of taxable div and int., as well as IRA to Roth conversion, and if my bonds stop being involuntarily redeemed, I wouldn't even have to file Capital Gains forms. I appreciate everyone's advice as always.
hachiko
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by hachiko »

capran wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:05 pm
hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:55 am
spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
I downloaded the 4868 and on page 2 under "late payment penalty" states it is usually 1/2 of 1% of tax not paid per month, but that "it won't be charged if you're considered to have reasonable cause if both the following occur 1. 90% of total tax paid before due date and 2) The remaining balance is paid with your return. So since I had 20,503 withheld and owe 21,539 I would not owe a late payment penalty, since if the original filing was lost in the mail I would be writing a new check for 1,036 to go with the replaced return. And I would think with my statement and a copy of my original certified mail receipt, I would also have the "Late filing penalty" waived since I had a reasonable statement why I filed late. I'd still owe interest on the 1,036 but think that would be better than going ahead and paying another 1036 with my 4868 E form, and then have my original check show up later and also be cashed by the government. I can't imaging THAT nightmare of trying to get ahold of someone to get one of the double payments refunded. I am still hoping for the USPS inquiry to confirm delivery, or for the check to be cashed at some point, but the 4868 e file at least removes the exorbitant penalties. Chalk it up to the live and learn surcharge. My income is under 170k and not terribly complicated: some interest free div/int, small amount of taxable div and int., as well as IRA to Roth conversion, and if my bonds stop being involuntarily redeemed, I wouldn't even have to file Capital Gains forms. I appreciate everyone's advice as always.
Oh, I'm not suggesting you pay twice, I thought the post I quoted was suggesting that you file your extension and include all the payments you made to date, including the payment sent with the return. Either way, my main point was, you should file an extension.

I retracted my statement w/r/t the late payment penalty based on the correction by MarkNYC. It does sound like you may qualify for the reasonable cause exception, but, as corrected by MarkNYC, you don't have to rely on that at all (which would require you to affirmatively request abatement).
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capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:09 pm
capran wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:05 pm
hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:55 am
spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
I downloaded the 4868 and on page 2 under "late payment penalty" states it is usually 1/2 of 1% of tax not paid per month, but that "it won't be charged if you're considered to have reasonable cause if both the following occur 1. 90% of total tax paid before due date and 2) The remaining balance is paid with your return. So since I had 20,503 withheld and owe 21,539 I would not owe a late payment penalty, since if the original filing was lost in the mail I would be writing a new check for 1,036 to go with the replaced return. And I would think with my statement and a copy of my original certified mail receipt, I would also have the "Late filing penalty" waived since I had a reasonable statement why I filed late. I'd still owe interest on the 1,036 but think that would be better than going ahead and paying another 1036 with my 4868 E form, and then have my original check show up later and also be cashed by the government. I can't imaging THAT nightmare of trying to get ahold of someone to get one of the double payments refunded. I am still hoping for the USPS inquiry to confirm delivery, or for the check to be cashed at some point, but the 4868 e file at least removes the exorbitant penalties. Chalk it up to the live and learn surcharge. My income is under 170k and not terribly complicated: some interest free div/int, small amount of taxable div and int., as well as IRA to Roth conversion, and if my bonds stop being involuntarily redeemed, I wouldn't even have to file Capital Gains forms. I appreciate everyone's advice as always.
Oh, I'm not suggesting you pay twice, I thought the post I quoted was suggesting that you file your extension and include all the payments you made to date, including the payment sent with the return. Either way, my main point was, you should file an extension.

I retracted my statement w/r/t the late payment penalty based on the correction by MarkNYC. It does sound like you may qualify for the reasonable cause exception, but, as corrected by MarkNYC, you don't have to rely on that at all (which would require you to affirmatively request abatement).
No, I understood your original recommendation to list all the tax as paid, but if, indeed, the payment and filing was lost in the mail, I at least considered that following the instructions one might reasonably assume that if lost, that 1,036 was never paid. But since I have the other documentation, this weekend going to e file the extension with the line 6, balance due as zero.
rich126
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by rich126 »

I had a rather large state and federal tax this year due to a rental property sale. For the federal return I actually made two payments online and mailed the return via certified mail. So hopefully they will get the return. I, at least, have receipts/confirmations they got the payments.

For the state return, I mailed that in with a check over a month ago and the check still hasn't been cashed. I'm assuming things are just slow but if another month goes by, I'll have to investigate further since I don't want to get hit with any penalties for something I didn't do wrong.

Last year I was one of those people who didn't get their refund until August/September.
spectec
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by spectec »

hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:09 pm
capran wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:05 pm
hachiko wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:55 am
spectec wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am You should file an extension as a precaution. There's absolutely no downside to filing a "protective" extension in this situation, and it gives you breathing room from now until Oct to wait for things to sort out. Use actual figures on the extension request.

If for some reason you decided to re-file between now and Oct, the extension will be your ticket to avoid a 5% per month Failure to File penalty on the unpaid balance (this FTF penalty caps out at 25%).
This is the answer.

Also, if your payment/return never makes it to them, you'll be charged 0.5% per month on the unpaid balance. But it saves you 4.5%/month. If the 0.5%/month is worth it, you can ask for penalty relief, which seems that you would meet the requirements. Even if you don't, you can always get first time abatement, but it's probably not worth it unless the penalties are significant.
I downloaded the 4868 and on page 2 under "late payment penalty" states it is usually 1/2 of 1% of tax not paid per month, but that "it won't be charged if you're considered to have reasonable cause if both the following occur 1. 90% of total tax paid before due date and 2) The remaining balance is paid with your return. So since I had 20,503 withheld and owe 21,539 I would not owe a late payment penalty, since if the original filing was lost in the mail I would be writing a new check for 1,036 to go with the replaced return. And I would think with my statement and a copy of my original certified mail receipt, I would also have the "Late filing penalty" waived since I had a reasonable statement why I filed late. I'd still owe interest on the 1,036 but think that would be better than going ahead and paying another 1036 with my 4868 E form, and then have my original check show up later and also be cashed by the government. I can't imaging THAT nightmare of trying to get ahold of someone to get one of the double payments refunded. I am still hoping for the USPS inquiry to confirm delivery, or for the check to be cashed at some point, but the 4868 e file at least removes the exorbitant penalties. Chalk it up to the live and learn surcharge. My income is under 170k and not terribly complicated: some interest free div/int, small amount of taxable div and int., as well as IRA to Roth conversion, and if my bonds stop being involuntarily redeemed, I wouldn't even have to file Capital Gains forms. I appreciate everyone's advice as always.
Oh, I'm not suggesting you pay twice, I thought the post I quoted was suggesting that you file your extension and include all the payments you made to date, including the payment sent with the return. Either way, my main point was, you should file an extension.

I retracted my statement w/r/t the late payment penalty based on the correction by MarkNYC. It does sound like you may qualify for the reasonable cause exception, but, as corrected by MarkNYC, you don't have to rely on that at all (which would require you to affirmatively request abatement).
This is the correct response (along with MarkNYC's clarification of course). There's no need to make an additional payment. All you need to do is file the extension with the best numbers you have at your disposal at the time you file. There's no requirement that you make a payment with the extension even if you owe money. As long as the reported figures are reasonable based on the info you have at the time you file the extension, and as long as the extension is filed in a timely manner, you're safe from a FTF penalty. If you ultimately owe more, you'll pay a small amount of interest plus a 1/2 of 1% Failure to Pay penalty (calculated monthly), but you'll be entirely protected from a 5% per month FTF penalty, which is the main purpose of the 4868.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers
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BogleFanGal
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by BogleFanGal »

TravelGeek wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:33 am
BogleFanGal wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:11 am
By the way...apologies for hijacking this thread, but does anyone know how to get help when no one at the IRS is reachable - or can fix the problem when you do get them on the phone? I've tried writing my legislative rep, but their office just spits out some canned form reply with a bunch of IRS links that lead to nowhere - they have no interest in getting involved.
Have you tried the Taxpayer Advocate service?

https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/get-help/

Seems like you have an IRS System issue that is one of the areas they appear to handle.

https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/ca ... tax-issue/
Thank you very much for the suggestion and link...all the IRS numbers I've tried so far haven't helped - or they don't answer the phone or respond to emails/letters at all. But I will try this too! Spent over an hour last week in line at the post office trying to mail my darn annual return. I want to efile so badly!!!
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain
athenslb57
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by athenslb57 »

E-filed and paid online. I'm done with the USPS and their inability to deliver anything in a timely manner.
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LilyFleur
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Re: what to do if USPA lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by LilyFleur »

dcnut wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 pm Last March we mailed a Federal Form 1041 to the IRS in Kansas City using Certified Mail. It was actually sent to Springfield, IL, and the Certified Mail tracking info showed that the item was successfully delivered in Springfield! I complained at our local post office, and they did an investigation. They finally came to the conclusion that the piece of mail was lost in Springfield, and they returned the entire cost. The investigation took about a week.

We had to send a duplicate copy of the Form 1041, and we sent it via FedEx. From now on, all tax returns will either be hand delivered (the Illinois tax returns), or sent via FedEx. I hesitate to use electronic filing due to the complexity of our tax returns (lots of required attachments).
My 2019 Turbotax return was 74 pages long (federal and tax). It was delivered electronically just fine, and my refund hit my account less than a week later.
Gabelli2020
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Gabelli2020 »

13 days is nothing under the circumstances.
Your cancelled check is your receipt of record.
The IRS refused my E-File personal return 6 years ago, after I was a victim of identity theft, and stolen credentials were used and attempted to file an e return that they flagged.
I subsequently submitted paper return USPS certified, signature required. They then lost my paper personal return, but admitted receiving it based on signature and having cashed check after MONTHS of letters/ phone calls. We eventually re-submitted a paper return
Now we always e-file with IRS supplied personal ID numbers for wife and myself, but I send my quarterly estimates via USPS registered. I think that I’ll go fedex from now on, based on my and others experience
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capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

How is this for an amazing response from USPS :

Dear ###########,
Thank you for taking the time to notify us of your experience. Your USPS® Service Request 2635#### has been marked as resolved.
I have sent the information on your item to the distribution center but have not heard back from them.
I would call the IRS and see if they can verify receipt of the item in the event we delivered it without a scan. 800-829-4933
We will continue to monitor for the item and deliver if located.
Please accept our sincerest apology for any trouble this may have caused you. We appreciate your business and look forward to serving you again in the future."

I love the part about marking the missing mail as "resolved".

Will be filing our e file extension tonight after our bank closes, as we've been checking daily to see if check clears. Obviously no hope of certified mail showing delivery, since the distribution center doesn't even answer a call from their own inspector. Cheers!
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capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

I surrender. I do not understand the e file system. set up an account and got the form, as it says even if high income you can still file for extension for free. entered all the info except they are saying the form is incomplete, and the only thing we did not do was put in our banking info because it looks like that would be giving the IRS to withdraw our taxes direct from the bank, even though on the line of taxes paid and taxes due we entered the same number. and I just don't know if I want to sign a form for the IRS to withdraw money from my account even though the form says zero due. am I over reacting? maybe just send the 4868 via fed ex? help???
spectec
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by spectec »

Fill in the data on a paper Form 4868, print it, and mail it through USPS by certified mail with return receipt.
USPS is the gold standard for proof of filing if you send a paper form (it's in the regs)

Here's the link to the form.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers
Topic Author
capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

spectec wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:57 pm Fill in the data on a paper Form 4868, print it, and mail it through USPS by certified mail with return receipt.
USPS is the gold standard for proof of filing if you send a paper form (it's in the regs)

Here's the link to the form.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf
I had the form printed to use as a model but given the usps response to the lack of follow through of my prior filing I sent certified mail, I thought it was worth a shot trying to file via e file. Guess I'll send in the 4868 certified just like my tax forms. Maybe I'll get lucky on the second one getting through.
spectec
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by spectec »

Be sure you use Certified Mail WITH Return Receipt. It costs $7.00 and is worth every penny.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers
Topic Author
capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

spectec wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:23 pm Be sure you use Certified Mail WITH Return Receipt. It costs $7.00 and is worth every penny.


We did on out return and check which we mailed on April 30th. it was tracked to Cincinnati distribution center on May 4th at 816. we then saw tracking changes on May 7 and 8th which said "12:00 am In transit, arriving late" but no delivery confirmation. we did an inquiry and received a note today saying status "resolved." followed by "I have sent the information on your item to the distribution center but have not heard back from them.
I would call the IRS and see if they can verify receipt of the item in the event we delivered it without a scan. 800-829-4933
We will continue to monitor for the item and deliver if located."
hence my attempt to e file the form.
Katietsu
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by Katietsu »

capran wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:04 pm I surrender. I do not understand the e file system. set up an account and got the form, as it says even if high income you can still file for extension for free. entered all the info except they are saying the form is incomplete, and the only thing we did not do was put in our banking info because it looks like that would be giving the IRS to withdraw our taxes direct from the bank, even though on the line of taxes paid and taxes due we entered the same number. and I just don't know if I want to sign a form for the IRS to withdraw money from my account even though the form says zero due. am I over reacting? maybe just send the 4868 via fed ex? help???
I used Free Fillable forms and definitely did not provide bank information.
SnowBog
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by SnowBog »

cricket49 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:27 am Your return is probably not lost. USPS and the IRS are struggling right now trying to process all the mail and returns.

I sent my 2019 tax return by mail in February 2020 with a check enclosed. The check was cashed within a few weeks. I went to IRS.gov continuously to see the status but it showed no 2019 return.
May 10, 2021 they processed my return. Took 15 months. I never received a letter from the IRS and nothing was updated on their site to explain where the return was.

This is a waiting game.
:shock:

Holy cow... Here I was going to offer OP that we mailed our return (thanks to TurboTax issue not letting us efile) in late March, and are still waiting...

I'm shocked it took yours 15 months... :shock:
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capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

Katietsu wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:12 pm
capran wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:04 pm I surrender. I do not understand the e file system. set up an account and got the form, as it says even if high income you can still file for extension for free. entered all the info except they are saying the form is incomplete, and the only thing we did not do was put in our banking info because it looks like that would be giving the IRS to withdraw our taxes direct from the bank, even though on the line of taxes paid and taxes due we entered the same number. and I just don't know if I want to sign a form for the IRS to withdraw money from my account even though the form says zero due. am I over reacting? maybe just send the 4868 via fed ex? help???
I used Free Fillable forms and definitely did not provide bank information.
Weird. but in reading your post thought we would try it again. and, it actually took it. don't know why it kept spitting it back saying incomplete, as the only thing we didn't fill in was the banking and permission to withdraw funds. thank you all. Says it will take 24-48 hours to receive verification of extension, but I won't hold my breath on that!
hachiko
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by hachiko »

You can also just make a very small payment with one of the credit card payment processors (or direct pay or eftps) and choose form 4868 and you don't have to send in the form.
Topic Author
capran
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Re: what to do if USPS lost my certified mailing of IRS return?

Post by capran »

hachiko wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:14 am You can also just make a very small payment with one of the credit card payment processors (or direct pay or eftps) and choose form 4868 and you don't have to send in the form.
We were mostly concerned about protecting us from extra penalties in case the USPS did, in fact, lose our original certified mail that had our return and check for the balance of taxes due ($1,036 of the 21k tax bill). so if we paid a small amount over, I guess that would have meant a small refund, but we did send it to Cincinnati as per instructions in 1040 booklet. \\At least the e file finally worked for filing the extension. Now it's wait and see if the check ever gets cashed, otherwise, we'll re-send the original return and another check.
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