Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

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Watty
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by Watty »

Valuethinker wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:54 am
Watty wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:52 pm

When looking at different cars pay a lot of attention to the headlights. I have a 2021 Forester and it has new advanced headlights that are noticeably better than any other car I have driven. They are not just super bright but they also do things like turn when you are going around corners. (I really like the Forester but it does not sound like the type of car you are looking for.)
I burst out laughing...

That was a feature on Citroens from around 1968 I think ...

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-ori ... ghts/39160

Turns out it was 1955 ...

Progress. Isn't. As they sometimes say.
I remember from the movie Tucker (which was decent) that the Tucker cars had a third headlight in the center of the car that also swiveled as you turned and that was back in 1940's.

The Subaru headlights are also LED and very bright but somehow they don't seem to be a problem for oncoming drivers since I have never had anyone flash their lights at me to tell me to dim my lights.
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familythriftmd
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by familythriftmd »

Not really answering the direct question, but what about moving closer? There are a lot of costs to commuting and any car might work better in 15 minutes vs a really nice car in 90.
finite_difference
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by finite_difference »

Opibus wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:52 pm I actually have a Prius Prime, but I use comma.ai open pilot for semi autonomous driving. Should work with a lot of cars. It does require a little bit of work but, well worth it. I have had the original device since 2018 and put about 30k miles of autonomous driving with it.

https://youtu.be/YJzvrDBQwOE

https://comma.ai/

Opibus
Thanks for posting. The comma three looks really cool.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
j9j
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by j9j »

With a commute like that I would recommend a new Avalon or Lexus Es350. The current models are similarly priced, way more roomy and way more quiet. The hybrid versions have good gas mileage.
Rdytoretire
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by Rdytoretire »

rob wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:38 pm
doubletissue wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:49 pm I'd say Subaru is the best overall, drove across the country and used an ankle weight on the wheel, very little manual intervention needed.
I'm sorry but as a fellow road user this is horrifying.... Please reconsider this practise as it might save the life of someone you know....
I agree. Perhaps there is a reason the vehicle requires a hand on the steering wheel. What is next, taking a nap?
I'm looking forward to self driving cars but will wait till that can be done safely without overriding features that require driver interaction.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I test drove a Model S as it's the only Tesla that I feel looks good. I would say that by the model 3 descriptions people are giving here, the Model S might be a much better ride for you. I drove the car and felt that it was quite a good $45k car. Unfortunately, they start at over $80k.

I'd look into something like a Lexus ES350 or Toyota Avalon (they're exactly the same car, different trim levels). I've spent a good amount of time in one of my salesmen's ES and it is quite nice.
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WhyNotUs
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by WhyNotUs »

Nissan Ariya is worth a look.
https://www.nissanusa.com/ariya.html
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TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

Valuethinker wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:57 am
Range is about 100 miles less? Somewhere around 225 miles?

I agree in that my friends, the sorts of people who want an EV, can pay the extra cost, but don't want a Tesla due to Musk & brand image (plus concerns re build quality), are going for Ioniq 5s (this is in North America). 2 of them went for one in the same month (geographically, they live as far apart as you can on the North American continent East to West, and from Mediterranean climate to North Atlantic maritime climate).

There's an upgraded version which has like 30 more miles on the range but all the gizmos (including self drive features - like many here, I think some levels of AV are a trap, because they work to diminish driver attention & awareness). But it's a lot more ($15k more?)

Stated range, using whatever standard you might use (EPA (US), WLTP (Europe), or the Korean standard) can vary, more or less, from real world range. The EPA allows two different ways to measure (2 tests or 4 tests) and only Tesla uses the 2 test method. Perhaps as a consequence, they usually fall short of their stated range considerably, while other marques (Porsche, Kia/Hyundai) regularly achieve or exceed their official range.

Range becomes an issue for long trips, trips exceeding the range of the vehicle and therefore requiring a charge while enroute. These examples are then affected by the charging speed of the vehicle and in this respect the Korean twins come out ahead, capable of accepting 800v. If I have a 500 mile trip to make any EV will require a charge, Tesla or otherwise. It may be that the vehicle with the shorter range but the higher rate of charging, will win the race.

For a table comparing various models (many not available in North America) go to 22:40 in Bjorn's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_sChlWTRc

Here he compares the time it takes to complete a 1000km trip; the conditions vary so it is not 100% but a good starting point. His videos, by the way, are great to watch.
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meanween
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by meanween »

One of the things I really enjoyed about my Tesla Model 3 (when I owned one) is that the adaptive cruise and lane keeping is superb in a stop and go traffic jam. Very little input is needed to keep it engaged even during longer stops. Contrast this with many other systems that if you are stopped longer than say 5 seconds (Honda's system comes to mind) then it requires driver tap the the accelerator to resume. It's a minor difference, but I found that the Tesla took more of the stress away from being in traffic. It's a feature that I now consider it a deal breaker, my next car must have adaptive cruise + lane keeping with this level of stop & go assist.
Valuethinker
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by Valuethinker »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:38 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:57 am
Range is about 100 miles less? Somewhere around 225 miles?

I agree in that my friends, the sorts of people who want an EV, can pay the extra cost, but don't want a Tesla due to Musk & brand image (plus concerns re build quality), are going for Ioniq 5s (this is in North America). 2 of them went for one in the same month (geographically, they live as far apart as you can on the North American continent East to West, and from Mediterranean climate to North Atlantic maritime climate).

There's an upgraded version which has like 30 more miles on the range but all the gizmos (including self drive features - like many here, I think some levels of AV are a trap, because they work to diminish driver attention & awareness). But it's a lot more ($15k more?)

Stated range, using whatever standard you might use (EPA (US), WLTP (Europe), or the Korean standard) can vary, more or less, from real world range. The EPA allows two different ways to measure (2 tests or 4 tests) and only Tesla uses the 2 test method. Perhaps as a consequence, they usually fall short of their stated range considerably, while other marques (Porsche, Kia/Hyundai) regularly achieve or exceed their official range.

Range becomes an issue for long trips, trips exceeding the range of the vehicle and therefore requiring a charge while enroute. These examples are then affected by the charging speed of the vehicle and in this respect the Korean twins come out ahead, capable of accepting 800v. If I have a 500 mile trip to make any EV will require a charge, Tesla or otherwise. It may be that the vehicle with the shorter range but the higher rate of charging, will win the race.

For a table comparing various models (many not available in North America) go to 22:40 in Bjorn's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_sChlWTRc

Here he compares the time it takes to complete a 1000km trip; the conditions vary so it is not 100% but a good starting point. His videos, by the way, are great to watch.
Thank you -- that's very interesting.

EVs have shifted from "experimental" to "early adopter" in my world of friends. The kind who have the new iPhone (version 37(B) with the anti-gravity field, or whatever). Professors at Stanford & at big public Canadian schools. It has happened in the blink of an eye.

I wasn't entirely sure about EVs. But I'd now say they are about where the iPhone was on say version 2. And coming very fast down the track.

It's happening. Another socio-technical revolution is happening: like the PC & the Internets & the Smartphone. The US for geographic reasons (plus low gas prices, plus culture) may be slow off the mark. But it's the USA - 1m cars pa is a lot of cars compared to other markets. And it's a tech savvy market. Europe & China will be very fast from here. Japan is a puzzle - apparently the incumbent auto manufacturers have done everything they could to block EVs. But that dam won't hold forever.

Welcome to the future, all.

"The future is here. It's just not evenly distributed" -- William Gibson.
hunoraut
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by hunoraut »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:28 am Japan is a puzzle - apparently the incumbent auto manufacturers have done everything they could to block EVs. But that dam won't hold forever.
Toyota was long the hold-out, favoring hybrids (which it pioneered) and alternative source like Hydrogen (for which it already has commercial cars). Last month they changed their tune and announced 15 full EVs by 2025, which is a big signal in shift.

And lest people think it's merely a passenger-motoring fad, even the niche hypercar manufacturers like Koenigsegg is going full electric, and Porsche is bringing electric to all their revered analog vehicles
mmcmonster
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by mmcmonster »

squirm wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:34 pm Frankly of all the semi or self driving features I've tried, i think all of them are just gimmicks. I've never felt more "relaxed" putting the car in Auto whatever.

If i were you, you should probably go to a Honda dealer then go visit a Toyota and see what works best and is most comfortable for you.
I have a Model Y. Had a Model S before that.

The fit on Teslas are not as good as similarly priced gas cars. But it has gotten significantly better through the years. If you drove a 2018 Model 3, maybe you want to try a 2021 (or 2022?) Model 3 or Y and see if it's better.

You may get nausea in any Tesla. The cars are excessively "torque-y", in that they accelerate abruptly at low speeds and you may not be expecting it. If you're even a little prone to motion sickness, it will be worse in a Tesla. It is better if you are the driver, but it still exists. Especially when the car is driving itself. If you put the car in "Valet mode", the acceleration is limited somewhat and you may want to keep it in that mode indefinitely. I have a friend who drives it this way.

As for their autodrive: I use it excessively on the highway and love it. I don't trust it to change lanes on it's own, so I turn off that feature. But it keeps appropriate distance from the car in front of it and stays perfectly in the center of the lanes.
BC_Doc
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by BC_Doc »

02nz wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:48 am
markfaix wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:10 pm I am looking to upgrade my 2012 Honda Pilot to a car with modern semi-autonomous feature that will allow me to commute 1-1.2 hours one way with less fatigue. The commute is mostly highway, about half with little traffic and half with moderately heavy traffic (20-35 mph stop and go, occasionally stop).

I thought the semi-autonomous driving of the Tesla Model 3 would fit the bill. Since there are no test drives available locally, I rented a Model 3 on Turo, and DW and I both hate it. The tech and the semi-autonomous driving are impressive, but the fit and finish are cheap. I feel carsick after driving it, despite changing the driving setting from sporty, standard, to comfortable. Interior noise is too loud. The seats are very uncomfortable with poor lumbar support. Ride quality is poor with the overly stiff suspension (19" wheels) -- I much prefer the Honda or the "luxury" feel of a Lexus or Acura. Frankly I don't see what all the excitement is about.

Is it worth renting a Model Y, or is it similar enough to the 3 that I shouldn't bother?

Any suggestions for crossover/small SUV or sedans to try with modern technology that will help me in a congested, highway-heavy commute?
If you found the Model 3 harsh-riding, don't even bother with the Model Y, which rides even worse. I found the 3 firm but acceptable, whereas the Y was much to jittery.

I would check out the Hyundai Ioniq 5. I test-drove one yesterday and was very impressed. The autonomous driving aids are not quite at the Tesla level but they are very good. (I have been using a similar set of aids on my Kia Niro EV, they work well and reliably.)
One caveat on the Ioniq 5— it was designed without a rear window windshield wiper. I own a 2019 Kona EV and am interested in upgrading to the Ioniq, however, living in the mountains, the lack of a rear wiper is a deal breaker. I suspect this oversight will be rectified with next year’s model.
sureshoe
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Re: Hated Tesla Model 3 - try Y or ICE car?

Post by sureshoe »

Big Dog wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:30 pm Own a model 3, and concur that the wind noise is noticeable for a car of its price range. I'd rate teh ride suspension as sporty, as opposed to "poor".
Lots of people don't understand this, which is why Camries or ES300s or whatever are so popular. There are a lot of people who get into those "plush" cars and think "OMG this car has wet sponge garbage suspension."

The first time I owned a car with a sports suspension, it was an adjustment... I could feel every bump. But, it's about feeling the road and hugging down. I do enjoy a more cloudy suspension now, but getting into a car like that is noticeable.
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