Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

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guppyguy
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Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by guppyguy »

I have no love for Apple's Mail app either on the Mac or iOS. I am comfortable with their privacy policies, however, I think Apple does the bare minimum to keep up with features. I don't want Gmail.

What are the opinions between using ProtonMail or Fastmail or Tutanota as email providers and native clients?
adestefan
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by adestefan »

I have been a happy, paying Fastmail user for 15 years. These days I use it mostly with Apple Mail as my mail reader, but their web interface is very good, too. They have full support of all the major protocols so you can use whatever client you’d like for mail, calendar, notes, or file services.
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guppyguy
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by guppyguy »

adestefan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:46 pm I have been a happy, paying Fastmail user for 15 years. These days I use it mostly with Apple Mail as my mail reader, but their web interface is very good, too. They have full support of all the major protocols so you can use whatever client you’d like for mail, calendar, notes, or file services.
How would you compare their features to Gmail?
adestefan
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by adestefan »

guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:01 pm
adestefan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:46 pm I have been a happy, paying Fastmail user for 15 years. These days I use it mostly with Apple Mail as my mail reader, but their web interface is very good, too. They have full support of all the major protocols so you can use whatever client you’d like for mail, calendar, notes, or file services.
How would you compare their features to Gmail?
I don’t use Gmail past a dump for places that may send me spam and to search through that. I really don’t care about the other features.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Are you asking for alternative mail clients / software, or alternative E-Mail service providers? Apple's mail is just a client. Who is providing your current E-Mail service?
Freefun
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by Freefun »

OP, specifically what features are you looking for in an email client?
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
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vineviz
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by vineviz »

guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:33 pm I have no love for Apple's Mail app either on the Mac or iOS. I am comfortable with their privacy policies, however, I think Apple does the bare minimum to keep up with features. I don't want Gmail.

What are the opinions between using ProtonMail or Fastmail or Tutanota as email providers and native clients?
I can't help with email providers, but I'm a fan of Airmail as a MacOS client. I continue to use Mail on my iOS devices.
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p_qrs_t
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by p_qrs_t »

Freefun wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:10 pm OP, specifically what features are you looking for in an email client?
Freefun, I am not the original poster, but I use google's mail and drive. I would love to find a secure version of that, but proton mail only has 20gb storage, whereas I am using about 200gb on google drive.

If you know of alternatives, I would love to here about them. Alternatively, if proton mail allows purchase of greater storage but I can't see it in the original screen, that would also be helpful to know.

Thank you!

p_qrs_t
Capricorn51
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by Capricorn51 »

Need to look into requirements of your email provider(s). My work uses an Exchange server so I am pretty restricted to either Apple Mail or Outlook. I used Apple Mail for years, but during the pandemic switched to outlook and I have been pretty happy.
Freefun
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by Freefun »

p_qrs_t wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:26 pm
Freefun wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:10 pm OP, specifically what features are you looking for in an email client?
Freefun, I am not the original poster, but I use google's mail and drive. I would love to find a secure version of that, but proton mail only has 20gb storage, whereas I am using about 200gb on google drive.

If you know of alternatives, I would love to here about them. Alternatively, if proton mail allows purchase of greater storage but I can't see it in the original screen, that would also be helpful to know.

Thank you!

p_qrs_t
I use PM and I think 20gb is their max.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
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guppyguy
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by guppyguy »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:10 pm Are you asking for alternative mail clients / software, or alternative E-Mail service providers? Apple's mail is just a client. Who is providing your current E-Mail service?
Yes, all of the above. Currently I have an iCloud email address. What I dislike about Apple Mail is lack of server side rules, poor junk mail filtering, and poor search, poor spam filtering. The iOS Mail App is just as bad. I spend most of time blocking a never-ending stream of email senders randomly changing addresses. Google has the best features but not private.

So while I'm currently in the Apple walled garden I've realized there is no reason that my email should stay there. I'm not opposed to having using an iCloud but am open to a complete re-boot, so to speak.

I'm also considering using our own email domain. I think?
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guppyguy
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by guppyguy »

Capricorn51 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:32 pm Need to look into requirements of your email provider(s). My work uses an Exchange server so I am pretty restricted to either Apple Mail or Outlook. I used Apple Mail for years, but during the pandemic switched to outlook and I have been pretty happy.
I've considered switching to Outlook for Mac as well. Does it play well with ProtonMail/Fastmail type services?
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guppyguy
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by guppyguy »

vineviz wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:20 pm
guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:33 pm I have no love for Apple's Mail app either on the Mac or iOS. I am comfortable with their privacy policies, however, I think Apple does the bare minimum to keep up with features. I don't want Gmail.

What are the opinions between using ProtonMail or Fastmail or Tutanota as email providers and native clients?
I can't help with email providers, but I'm a fan of Airmail as a MacOS client. I continue to use Mail on my iOS devices.
Does Airmail read/scan any of my emails? I'm concerned a 3rd party mail client may not be as secure but really don't know.
rx2009
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by rx2009 »

guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:28 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:10 pm Are you asking for alternative mail clients / software, or alternative E-Mail service providers? Apple's mail is just a client. Who is providing your current E-Mail service?
Yes, all of the above. Currently I have an iCloud email address. What I dislike about Apple Mail is lack of server side rules, poor junk mail filtering, and poor search, poor spam filtering. The iOS Mail App is just as bad. I spend most of time blocking a never-ending stream of email senders randomly changing addresses. Google has the best features but not private.

So while I'm currently in the Apple walled garden I've realized there is no reason that my email should stay there. I'm not opposed to having using an iCloud but am open to a complete re-boot, so to speak.

I'm also considering using our own email domain. I think?
1. You can consider getting Spark https://sparkmailapp.com/. It is a 3rd party client, but I believe it will satisfy most of the requirements you are asking in a mail client.

2. And what I have done more recently, my own email. I purchased a domain and using Fastmail as the provider and with 1Password integration. With this combination, I can use "masked email" addresses to never have to give out the main/personal one to websites. I had a 25% off discount and signed for the 3 years after the trial. If you are very worried about security, Fastmail is based in Australia, with servers in the US and thus part of the "5 eyes" network of surveillance.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by yatesd »

I like Outlook on my phone. My favorite feature vs Apple?…integrated calendar and mail in one app. From reading reviews, it seems like the top rated choice available today.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by vineviz »

guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:38 pm
vineviz wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:20 pm
guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:33 pm I have no love for Apple's Mail app either on the Mac or iOS. I am comfortable with their privacy policies, however, I think Apple does the bare minimum to keep up with features. I don't want Gmail.

What are the opinions between using ProtonMail or Fastmail or Tutanota as email providers and native clients?
I can't help with email providers, but I'm a fan of Airmail as a MacOS client. I continue to use Mail on my iOS devices.
Does Airmail read/scan any of my emails? I'm concerned a 3rd party mail client may not be as secure but really don't know.
Airmail is just a local client, like Apple Mail. All it does is download the emails from the server and let you read them & repl to them.
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revert
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by revert »

I used Fastmail for some 8 years and Tuffmail (now defunct) before that. I'm now on iCloud mail since they added support for custom email domains.

I can offer a few thoughts:
Consider if you'd be happy using a web client on desktop, or if you require a native application. Many providers focus only on the web client, or a web plus mobile client. You can find good third-party desktop clients (like the previously mentioned Airmail), but one feature that will nearly always be missing is the ability to set server-side rules. If you want to be able to set server-side rules from a desktop client, Outlook/Office 365 is one of the only games in town. If you're okay using a web client, or logging into a web client whenever you need to set server-side rules (this is what I do with iCloud), then more options are available and I would recommend trialing Fastmail to get a feel for their interface and features.

Gmail does still have the best out of the box spam filtering experience, and I think that's unlikely to change. But other providers do end up with pretty good filtering once you've spent some time classifying mail as it comes in. There's also the option of tacking on a paid spam filter in front of whatever email provider if you need something stronger or with more features (eg. MailRoute).

While I similarly avoid Google due to privacy concerns, I do think that Gmail is one of the hardest and potentially least useful to avoid. My inbox isn't on Gmail, but a huge number of people I need to email are on it, so Google still probably ends up with some 60%+ of my correspondence. Something to think about if you really can't find any other services that meet your needs.

If you're going through the hassle of changing your email address, I'd consider a custom domain - more and more providers are supporting it, and it'll make it much easier the next time you need to change providers.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by scottjspencer »

Freefun wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:41 pm
p_qrs_t wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:26 pm
Freefun wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:10 pm OP, specifically what features are you looking for in an email client?
Freefun, I am not the original poster, but I use google's mail and drive. I would love to find a secure version of that, but proton mail only has 20gb storage, whereas I am using about 200gb on google drive.

If you know of alternatives, I would love to here about them. Alternatively, if proton mail allows purchase of greater storage but I can't see it in the original screen, that would also be helpful to know.

Thank you!

p_qrs_t
I use PM and I think 20gb is their max.
The 20GB max wasn't bad when the product was mainly email. I wonder if the max will increase much once ProtonDrive is officially out of beta...
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guppyguy
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by guppyguy »

revert wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:07 am I used Fastmail for some 8 years and Tuffmail (now defunct) before that. I'm now on iCloud mail since they added support for custom email domains.

I can offer a few thoughts:
If you want to be able to set server-side rules from a desktop client, Outlook/Office 365 is one of the only games in town. If you're okay using a web client, or logging into a web client whenever you need to set server-side rules (this is what I do with iCloud), then more options are available and I would recommend trialing Fastmail to get a feel for their interface and features.

If you're going through the hassle of changing your email address, I'd consider a custom domain - more and more providers are supporting it, and it'll make it much easier the next time you need to change providers.
Native would be great but I'd rather have full functionality on the web then a partially functioning native app, hence my dislike of Apple Mail. If the power goes out when I'm away for a week all of my native app based rules are dormant.

I tried Outlook but my understanding is in order to sync native app rules with the server then you have to have to using an Office 365 email address, right? So if I had a custom domain I would still not be able to adjust rules on the native app?

Is getting a custom domain the same as having it hosted? In other words, does Fastmail or Outlook provide the actual email hosting and I'm just bringing the paid for name? Where is a good place to get an email domain name and is it usually a one time charge?

Thank you!
revert
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by revert »

guppyguy wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:06 am I tried Outlook but my understanding is in order to sync native app rules with the server then you have to have to using an Office 365 email address, right? So if I had a custom domain I would still not be able to adjust rules on the native app?
I can't speak to Office 365 specifically, but it would be extremely unusual if that's the case.
guppyguy wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:06 am Is getting a custom domain the same as having it hosted? In other words, does Fastmail or Outlook provide the actual email hosting and I'm just bringing the paid for name? Where is a good place to get an email domain name and is it usually a one time charge?
There are three distinct components: owning the domain name (a company you pay that then gives you control of example.com), email hosting (a company you pay to store and let you send email), and DNS hosting (the glue between the two - the way you express "email to this domain should be routed to this email hosting provider").

All three may be separate companies, but they are frequently bundled together for convenience. For example, you could purchase a domain from a registrar (hover, iwantmyname, etc., annual fee to the tune of $10-20), then Fastmail will provide both DNS and email. Office 365 is fully integrated such that they handle the registrar (via GoDaddy), DNS and email hosting if you are on their monthly personal or family subscription.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by zuma »

Fastmail is great, I’ve been a happy customer for years. Their web interface and iOS app are both top notch.

I use Fastmail for email hosting and also as a DNS host for all of my domains. Their DNS management interface is much more sophisticated than what you’ll find at most domain registrars (at least in my experience).

As a bonus, it’s also nice for hosting simple static websites.
rx2009
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by rx2009 »

zuma wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:45 pm As a bonus, it’s also nice for hosting simple static websites.
I just signed up for their service last month and honestly did not know this. This is an interesting feature for my money.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by anoop »

I’m an unhappy gmail user, hard to switch when locked in. Their spam filters are worthless as around 50% if the messages in the spam folder are not spam!

Anyway, I have a ProtonMail account as well. One thing you want to keep in mind is that search is limited to the subject line only for mobile clients. On a desktop, you can set it up so the search works on the contents of the entire message.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by Second Round »

anoop wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:43 pm I’m an unhappy gmail user, hard to switch when locked in. Their spam filters are worthless as around 50% if the messages in the spam folder are not spam!

Anyway, I have a ProtonMail account as well. One thing you want to keep in mind is that search is limited to the subject line only for mobile clients. On a desktop, you can set it up so the search works on the contents of the entire message.
Interesting - I've found gmail to be tops in terms of spam filtering. Almost no false negatives or false positives for me. That said, I am on guard for the removal of features that might promote lock-in. I have paid email through Posteo (also considered ProtonMail, Runbox, Mailbox, Fastmail), and am considering reviving email service on the domain I control. Many years ago, last time I used it for email, I had the poor spam filtering experience you describe, and just gave it up. For instance even if I only had a couple email boxes defined (such as admin [at] mydomain [dot] com, myname [at] mydomain [dot] com), any address would get through to the master email. So you could do boglehead [at] mydomain [dot] com and I'd get it. And checking the spam folder became impossible, it was so stuffed with garbage. I hope things have improved in recent years, but we'll see.

One unusual thing about Posteo is that it simply does not have a spam folder. Email either gets through the filter, or it bounces. So far, so good, no spam after 11 months.

I use a very lightweight email client, Claws, and stick to the old POP standard so my email is almost fully local. The one exception - gmail retains all sent mail even if you tell it to not leave it a copy on the server. IDK why they do this, unless to discourage setups like mine and encourage what they prefer me to do (which is probably to stay logged in all the time, access gmail via app or web, and leave my email on their servers). So I have to manually clear the sent folder in gmail if I don't want my stuff lingering out on their cloud.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by adestefan »

Over the past few months Gmail’s spam filtering has become really bad. I’m not sure why but there have been a few fleeting stories about it.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by vineviz »

With regard to spam filtering, many MacOS desktop clients work with SpamSieve which is a Bayesian spam filter that runs locally. I've used it with both Apple's native Mail app and AirMail happily for years.
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by VictorStarr »

guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:28 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:10 pm Are you asking for alternative mail clients / software, or alternative E-Mail service providers? Apple's mail is just a client. Who is providing your current E-Mail service?
Yes, all of the above. Currently I have an iCloud email address. What I dislike about Apple Mail is lack of server side rules, poor junk mail filtering, and poor search, poor spam filtering. The iOS Mail App is just as bad. I spend most of time blocking a never-ending stream of email senders randomly changing addresses. Google has the best features but not private.

......

Does Airmail read/scan any of my emails? I'm concerned a 3rd party mail client may not be as secure but really don't know.
If your priorities are high-quality search and spam filtering you actually want your email provider to "read/scan" your emails. It is not possible to detect spam messages without parsing, analyzing, and applying spam models to all email messages. The same situation is with search. Rich functionality of email software and user privacy are conflicting requirements. You have to decide what is more important for you.

Security of your email service is crucial for overall security of your online life. I would not recommend any email service that does not offer robust 2FA (hardware key or authenticator app).

If you decide to go with your own domain, security of a domain registrar is also a key requirement. Overall security is only as strong as the weakest link.
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guppyguy
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by guppyguy »

VictorStarr wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:12 am
guppyguy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:28 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:10 pm Are you asking for alternative mail clients / software, or alternative E-Mail service providers? Apple's mail is just a client. Who is providing your current E-Mail service?
Yes, all of the above. Currently I have an iCloud email address. What I dislike about Apple Mail is lack of server side rules, poor junk mail filtering, and poor search, poor spam filtering. The iOS Mail App is just as bad. I spend most of time blocking a never-ending stream of email senders randomly changing addresses. Google has the best features but not private.

......

Does Airmail read/scan any of my emails? I'm concerned a 3rd party mail client may not be as secure but really don't know.
If your priorities are high-quality search and spam filtering you actually want your email provider to "read/scan" your emails. It is not possible to detect spam messages without parsing, analyzing, and applying spam models to all email messages. The same situation is with search. Rich functionality of email software and user privacy are conflicting requirements. You have to decide what is more important for you.

Security of your email service is crucial for overall security of your online life. I would not recommend any email service that does not offer robust 2FA (hardware key or authenticator app).

If you decide to go with your own domain, security of a domain registrar is also a key requirement. Overall security is only as strong as the weakest link.
Makes sense.

When selecting a domain name do people suggest NOT using a family last name?
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VictorStarr
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by VictorStarr »

guppyguy wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:19 am ....

When selecting a domain name do people suggest NOT using a family last name?
It is a personal choice. I own and use a domain name that is my last name. So my personal email is first_name@last_name.com. For financial accounts I use an email that has no resemblance to my name so it is impossible to guess.
If your last name is not very rare I doubt that you can still register a domain that is your last name in popular TLDs (.com, .net, .org).
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Re: Apple Mail app alternatives ...Protonmail/Fastmail/Tutanota

Post by LadyGeek »

guppyguy wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:19 am Makes sense.

When selecting a domain name do people suggest NOT using a family last name?
The OP has started a new thread here: Buying a domain for personal emails questions
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