Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

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Carguy85
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Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Carguy85 »

Just got a notification from home/auto carrier that LexisNexis had found knocks against my credit that will adversely impact our premiums. Well of course...we had excellent scores when we used credit. It’s been a few years now since we have paid off everything and froze our credit. We own our home and vehicles outright. We use visa debit cards. Mid 30s. How big of a deal is this for premiums now and in the future? Our current insurance scores are high teens/low 20s. (50 is average and 100 is bad I suppose) I really don’t want to bother getting credit cards but not sure how much a sinking credit score due to lack of credit use is going to effect premos in the coming years. Is a single credit card account going to make any considerable difference anyway? Somewhat aggravating being dinged for not playing the games we no longer need to play. Am I overthinking this? Reminds me a lot about getting dinged for a high BMI on life/disability insurance (high due to being active/weightlifter...not obesity) :annoyed
inverter
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by inverter »

Well I would highly recommend you use credit cards for the superior fraud protection and rewards.

That aside, have you checked your credit to ensure there is no identity fraud? Not sure why your credit would tank if there isn’t a lot of action, unless your old accounts have dropped off.
lazydavid
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by lazydavid »

inverter wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:45 am Well I would highly recommend you use credit cards for the superior fraud protection and rewards.
Agreed on both counts. I'd much rather put someone else's money at risk than my own, and if you choose a rewards card that's right for you, you get a nice side benefit for the spending you'd do anyway.

Using a credit card doesn't mean carrying a balance and paying interest--I suspect almost no one on BH does. But you also don't have to be beholden to a billing cycle unless you choose to. We completely ignore our statements and payment dates. Every two weeks when we get paid and balance the checkbook, we pay off the full balance on any card that has one. Both of our FICO scores are typically north of 850.
NYCaviator
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by NYCaviator »

Our credit rating system in the US rewards using credit and incurring debt (which is why we are one of the few nations that rely so heavily on credit cards). :?

The only way to get a good score is to play the game. You should both probably open separate credit accounts, put a couple monthly bills on autopay and then pay it off in full. No need to completely switch to using credit cards if you aren’t used to that or aren’t comfortable doing that.
Topic Author
Carguy85
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Carguy85 »

From what I understand, Visa offers the same protection to debit cards as it does credit cards... although yes the money could be temporarily stolen from a checking account instead of “their”money. I could care less about chasing rewards but was unable to rent some vehicles on a vacation once since given they accepted only credit cards. Visa fraud has seemed to be on top of things the few times there was a fraud alert. Otherwise it’s worked for us great...maybe I’ve been lucky thus far. I was reading online where bad credit (or lack there of) could be the same as having a dui in some states regarding rates. I feel dumb playing a silly game but something really strikes a chord when they consider me irresponsible to a degree and charge me more for having no debt. Will be looking in to a visa credit card through our bank for our monthly expenses. Figured this may be a common problem especially among older folks that I’d think would have no debt.
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Carguy85
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Carguy85 »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:09 pm You should both probably open separate credit accounts, put a couple monthly bills on autopay and then pay it off in full. No need to completely switch to using credit cards if you aren’t used to that or aren’t comfortable doing that.
We have our power and ATT cell/internet and a few other little nick nack things on autopay... not sure if this is propping up our credit at all or not... I requested a report from the CBIS rating company. Ill maybe thaw the credit agencies and have the banker look into our scores.
Saving$
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Saving$ »

Carguy85 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:31 pm From what I understand, Visa offers the same protection to debit cards as it does credit cards... although yes the money could be temporarily stolen from a checking account instead of “their”money. I could care less about chasing rewards but was unable to rent some vehicles on a vacation once since given they accepted only credit cards.
I have no idea if it is true that Visa offers the same protection on debit and credit cards, although Clark Howard did not used to think so (have not researched it in ages).

In regards to chasing rewards, I concur with you 100%. Just get one of the high cash back cards, and call it good enough.
- If you are already a Costco member, the Costco visa gives 4% on gas, 3% on travel and restaurants, 2% on Costco and 1% on everything else.
- The Alliant Visa offers 2.5% cash back on all purchases for the first $10k purchases each month.
There are other similar good ones that have minimal requirements; just do a bit of googling.
wfrobinette
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by wfrobinette »

Carguy85 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:19 am Just got a notification from home/auto carrier that LexisNexis had found knocks against my credit that will adversely impact our premiums. Well of course...we had excellent scores when we used credit. It’s been a few years now since we have paid off everything and froze our credit. We own our home and vehicles outright. We use visa debit cards. Mid 30s. How big of a deal is this for premiums now and in the future? Our current insurance scores are high teens/low 20s. (50 is average and 100 is bad I suppose) I really don’t want to bother getting credit cards but not sure how much a sinking credit score due to lack of credit use is going to effect premos in the coming years. Is a single credit card account going to make any considerable difference anyway? Somewhat aggravating being dinged for not playing the games we no longer need to play. Am I overthinking this? Reminds me a lot about getting dinged for a high BMI on life/disability insurance (high due to being active/weightlifter...not obesity) :annoyed
I strongly advise you to stop using a debit card for purchases. While convenient they pose a risk that a credit card does not. If the debit card is used fraudulently, it can take days to over a week get money back into your account. Whereas the Credit card reverses the charges pretty quickly.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Carguy85 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:31 pm .....I feel dumb playing a silly game.....
Getting a discount on all your purchases is not "dumb."
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
criticalmass
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by criticalmass »

Carguy85 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:31 pm From what I understand, Visa offers the same protection to debit cards as it does credit cards... although yes the money could be temporarily stolen from a checking account instead of “their”money. I could care less about chasing rewards but was unable to rent some vehicles on a vacation once since given they accepted only credit cards. Visa fraud has seemed to be on top of things the few times there was a fraud alert. Otherwise it’s worked for us great...maybe I’ve been lucky thus far. I was reading online where bad credit (or lack there of) could be the same as having a dui in some states regarding rates. I feel dumb playing a silly game but something really strikes a chord when they consider me irresponsible to a degree and charge me more for having no debt. Will be looking in to a visa credit card through our bank for our monthly expenses. Figured this may be a common problem especially among older folks that I’d think would have no debt.
Visa’s own protection is voluntarily and is limited to the rules they make up about their own decision process and number of times it is available. Don’t depend on that for your financial security.

Debit cards do receive some mandatory protection under Regulation D, but debit card protection is inferior to the numerous protections the Fair Credit Billing Act provides to Credit Cards.
With a debit card your own money is missing until a fraud investigation begins, and then when or if it concludes in your favor. That also means mortgage payments, bills, rent, etc. can bounce during those weeks of investigation, or longer. If Savings auto overdraft transfers are enabled, your Savings account will be cleaned out as well, depending on the amount of fraud.

It is a much better option to get one credit card, get far better protection, earn some cash back, and keep a great credit score.

Use your credit card as if it is a debit card: Enroll in autopay in the due date, then check the statements every month or more often. You have at least 25 days to stop any payments if fraud transactions, and two billing cycles to report problems. You also have all of the consumer protection provisions in the FCBA.

And you can even rent a car with it. :)
Topic Author
Carguy85
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Carguy85 »

In the process right now of obtaining one...my score went from 730 in 2020 to currently not enough info to give a score. Hopefully a card where $2-3k a month is spent and paid off will whip it back up where the insurance company thinks I’m not so risky
Trism
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Trism »

Carguy85 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:31 pm I could care less about chasing rewards
I don't understand what you mean by "chasing."

You simply replace the debit card you're using with a rewards credit card and use the rewards credit card instead, and then instead of getting nothing back for every purchase you get something (2%+) back from every purchase

Plus you get the additional protections and benefits that come from using a credit card.

I don't get the impression from the thread that you have awful credit or lack impulse control, which are the main two reasons why someone couldn't or shouldn't use a rewards credit card instead of a debit card.
Topic Author
Carguy85
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Carguy85 »

It seems the rewards cards aren’t what they used to be in that categories are changed frequently, limits set, etc. sort of like going through hoops to get some kind of bonus for opening and having a certain amount in a bank account. I get that some people enjoy this game, I am a simpleton I suppose and find no joy in it. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there is a card out there that pays 2% cash back on absolutely any purchase with absolutely no limit and no exceptions and has no fee.
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David Jay
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by David Jay »

Carguy85 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:18 pmPlease correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there is a card out there that pays 2% cash back on absolutely any purchase with absolutely no limit and no exceptions and has no fee.
Fidelity.

It is officially "points", but you can automatically have it deposited as cash in a taxable account at Fidelity. I let it accumulate and then ACH the money to our credit union checking account when the balance reaches $500 (because I have no other use for a taxable account at Fidelity).
It's not an engineering problem - Hersh Shefrin | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius
Topic Author
Carguy85
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Carguy85 »

Interesting... I’ll be looking to them at some point anyhow as an Hsa custodian so will keep that in mind
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8foot7
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by 8foot7 »

David Jay wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:51 pm
Carguy85 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:18 pmPlease correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there is a card out there that pays 2% cash back on absolutely any purchase with absolutely no limit and no exceptions and has no fee.
Fidelity.

It is officially "points", but you can automatically have it deposited as cash in a taxable account at Fidelity. I let it accumulate and then ACH the money to our credit union checking account when the balance reaches $500 (because I have no other use for a taxable account at Fidelity).
Wells Fargo Active Cash
No fee
2% cash back
No catch. It just works.
Trism
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Trism »

Carguy85 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:18 pm It seems the rewards cards aren’t what they used to be in that categories are changed frequently, limits set, etc. sort of like going through hoops to get some kind of bonus for opening and having a certain amount in a bank account. I get that some people enjoy this game, I am a simpleton I suppose and find no joy in it. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there is a card out there that pays 2% cash back on absolutely any purchase with absolutely no limit and no exceptions and has no fee.
What you are observing is a constantly-expanding array of choices.

There are several mainstream cards that pay a flat 2%, 2.5%, 2,625% and 3% for everything you buy.

The higher ones have requirements, which you might consider "gaming," so just grab one of the simple ones.
bradinsky
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by bradinsky »

What is CBIS?
Yarlonkol12
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

As others mentioned, why not just switch all your spending to a rewards credit card?

Not only will the credit card offer a buffer incase of a billing error or fraud on your debit card, but you will also earn cash back, at-least 2% but can be better.

Why spend 2% more of your money than you need to (by forgoing the credit card reward discount on all of your spending) just to use a debit card which leaves you more exposed to bill error fraud and risk?

I specifically declined debit cards on my checking accounts, opting for ATM only cards, except for BoA which forced me to get a debit card. However, I was able to permanently lock the BoA debit card on the website. For awhile, we used our HSA debit card for small purchases however after suffering through one billing mistake that took forever to resolve I disabled the HSA debit card, easier to just pay with credit card and take ACH HSA withdrawls (documented, ofcourse) as needed
Last edited by Yarlonkol12 on Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Impatience
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by Impatience »

Don’t get a card with an annual fee or shifting rewards or points or anything like that. Just a simple straightforward 2% cash back card. Fidelity has one. Buy with it, pay it off with autopay each statement period, and every 6-12 months redeem the cash. Will fix your problem and make life 2% cheaper with very little thought.
wfrobinette
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by wfrobinette »

Carguy85 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:18 pm It seems the rewards cards aren’t what they used to be in that categories are changed frequently, limits set, etc. sort of like going through hoops to get some kind of bonus for opening and having a certain amount in a bank account. I get that some people enjoy this game, I am a simpleton I suppose and find no joy in it. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there is a card out there that pays 2% cash back on absolutely any purchase with absolutely no limit and no exceptions and has no fee.
Citi Double cash dose. At least it seems to.

I did three. That's as complex as I want to get. And I share your desire to be simple. That's why I don't go bank and brokerage bonuses or the continually rotating cards for sign up bonuses. I'm probably giving up $2k a year but I have better things to do than to confuse the heck out of my wife.

1. Amex Blue Cash Preferred. It has an annual fee of $95 but it offers 6% on groceries and 3% on gas. They have a no fee card too but the percentages are lower. There is a limit on groceries for the year but it's over $5k
2. Citi double cash for everything but gas and grocery
3. Amazon Private Label store card. 5% back on Amazon
wfrobinette
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by wfrobinette »

Impatience wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:35 am Don’t get a card with an annual fee or shifting rewards or points or anything like that. Just a simple straightforward 2% cash back card. Fidelity has one. Buy with it, pay it off with autopay each statement period, and every 6-12 months redeem the cash. Will fix your problem and make life 2% cheaper with very little thought.
Is it really cheaper in the long run? One has to think that merchants are paying this cashback in the form of fees right? So in effect have these rewards cards driven up costs by 2%?

Look what happened to airline miles once they started issuing these cards with bonus miles and such. You can't hardly get a free ticket for a decent number of miles unless you are booking 330 days out.

You got to play the game. I know I do but as they always say there is no free lunch!
DSInvestor
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by DSInvestor »

I like Citi DoubleCash. No annual fee and it does offer 2% reward on all purchases. Super easy to redeem but there is a $25 minimum reward before you can redeem. I do not use it for spending outside of USA as there is a 3% foreign transaction fee.

If you are a Costco member, the Costco Citi visa card is great too. 2% cash back for Costco spending. 4% cash back for Gasoline, 3% on dining and travel, 1% everything else. No annual fee, No foreign Transaction fee. The cash reward is released annually and can be used at Costco stores.

Capital One Quicksilver is great for use outside of USA. No annual fee. 1.5% cash back on everything. No Foreign Transaction fee.
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ekid
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by ekid »

Kroger seems not to accept a credit card. I only tried once- may have been some other problem.

But if I were a sharp grocery manager I wouldn't!
lazydavid
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by lazydavid »

ekid wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:55 am Kroger seems not to accept a credit card. I only tried once- may have been some other problem.

But if I were a sharp grocery manager I wouldn't!
You'd be a sharp and unemployed grocery manager.

I do not know a single person who has made a grocery purchase larger than $10 without using a credit card in the past 20 years. I see someone I don't know paying cash maybe one out of every 8-10 visits. If I had to guess, easily 95% of grocery volume is Credit/Debit (both of which have a fee for the store, unless the Debit user intentionally processes as an ATM/PIN transaction).

Reducing your store's top line revenue by 90-95% is not a good career move.
ekid
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by ekid »

Now I was speaking strictly of a CREDIT card; not a debit. I use debit with pin all the time with no extra fee...
lazydavid
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by lazydavid »

ekid wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:15 am Now I was speaking strictly of a CREDIT card; not a debit. I use debit with pin all the time with no extra fee...
Right, so you have chosen to forgo the fraud protections of your debit card to save the store 2-3%. That's awfully magnanimous of you. I do not believe most people do this. I believe the vast majority process as credit.

Found the actual statistics. 46% of all grocery purchases were made using credit cards as of last April. 39% with debit cards (not broken out into processed as credit vs. ATM), 15% with cash. So even if we say half of debit card purchases were made with a PIN (which seems WAY high to me), that still means that two-thirds of all transactions were processed as credit. It also wouldn't surprise me if that percentage went up rapidly as total transaction amount went up.
Last edited by lazydavid on Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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David Jay
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Re: Insurance folks.... got a CBIS notification

Post by David Jay »

wfrobinette wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:48 amIs it really cheaper in the long run? One has to think that merchants are paying this cashback in the form of fees right? So in effect have these rewards cards driven up costs by 2%?
For argument sake, let's say this is true. It still costs one 2% more to use a debit card. Because others are using credit cards and merchants are responding by raising prices.
It's not an engineering problem - Hersh Shefrin | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius
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