Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

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Startled Cat
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Startled Cat »

tripu11 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:04 pm Wine enthusiast here, although I primarily collect old-world wines like barolo, champagne, sauternes, etc. My journey in wine began by picking a region and a wine I liked, albeit on in which knew very little about (barolo), and exclusively drank that wine and wines from that region for two years, learning everything I could about the different producers and the difference expressions of nebbiolo. It gave me a focused goal in respect of a pretty broad topic. I learned a ton along the way about other regions by osmosis. Once I felt I had a firm grasp on that region, I knew enough about other regions that I could more knowledgeably pick the next region I wanted to explore (for me, champagne). I've since built up a cellar of close to 700 bottles over the last 7 or so years. Extremely enjoyable hobby.
I tried a Barolo (Villa Balestra 2017) with an Italian dinner out last night, partially inspired by this post, and enjoyed it very much. It tasted unmistakably Italian, but much more tannic than the Sangiovese-based Italian wines I typically drink. It paired very well with braised oxtail in tomato sauce.

I followed it up with a dessert wine: Ben Ryé Passito di Pantelleria. That was also a very interesting discovery. It's a totally different kind of dessert wine than port (which is my go-to) - sweeter, with a strong apricot flavor. I thought the aroma was amazing - I picked up raisins and anise. It was only slightly syrupy and had a great mouth feel.
Dyloot
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Dyloot »

GG1273 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:07 pm I'm in NJ so might not get a lot of the smaller run batches from CA, OR or WA here

A few we've liked
Reds
Hartford Court Russian River Pinot Noir
Hartford Court Lands Edge Pinot Noir
Hess Collection Lion Tamer Red Blend
Stags Leap Petite Sirah (a personal favorite)
Georgrafico La Pevera Toscana
El Enemigo Malbec
Alto Moncayo Garnacha

Whites
For us, CA Sauvignon Blancs are too sweet
Here are 2 drier ones from Sancerre
Both are excellent
Lauverjat Karine Sancerre Blanc
Gérard Boulay Sancerre à Chavignol Blanc
I live in Sonoma County (about 20 minutes from Hartford Court) and once worked for Hartford's parent company. That brand is a gem.

I know numerous winemakers who grab it at our local markets whenever they go to a social gathering. It's a very safe purchase for less than $50.

If you're ever out visiting us you should drop in. They have tasting rooms (I believe) in both downtown Healdsburg and at the winery itself outside of Forestville.
Dyloot
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Dyloot »

khangaroo wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:31 am I’ve been lurking/posting for a few years and haven’t seen too many wine threads pop up so I figured I would start one where we could chat about some favorite varietals, wines, products (I just got some Riedel glasses for my birthday), wineries we should check out if we are in the area, and just random things wine-related.

I’ve only started to get into wines when I met my wife several years ago but we’re lucky enough to live in Portland, OR and surrounded by world-class wineries. We’ve become wine club members at 2 places and I feel like I’m starting to taste some of the wine descriptions or maybe I’m just going crazy lol

Please comment on your favorite wines and if you have any recommendations on anything wine-related. One thing I’ve been thinking about is getting a decanter but not really sure if it’s worth it, would love some insight.
It's a very expensive hobby that I've (mostly) replaced with beer. Which is also expensive, but nothing compared to wine.

As I mentioned in the post above, I once worked for a wine company in the Sonoma County/Napa area. They've been investing in Oregon vineyards and wineries for years. It's a great spot I expect will continue to evolve in the coming decades. Enjoy!
Quahog Guy
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Quahog Guy »

Definitely recommend CellarTracker for inventory and reviews. I usually have ~15 mixed cases on hand and I had a hard time tracking my inventory until I started using it. There's a mobile version also. Since it's a service and I use it all the time, I make an annual donation to support it. Has some pricing info but I don't have access to the professional reviews. Users tend to be pretty knowledgeable about wine and my impression is that their reviews are a tad lower than the wine magazines.

Also use wine-searcher.com. Gives comparative pricing for 90K wine stores worldwide. I have an annual subscription so you can better details on pricing. Mobile version also.

Due to lots of international business travel, I learned that there are great wines everywhere. Don't get stuck in a rut and only drink wine from one country or region. There are lots of amazing wines out there and many are very reasonably priced.

Take a few wine tasting classes. Visit a variety of vineyards. Find a good wine store and talk to the staff. Hard to do that here in PA where the state runs the liquor business.
2marshmallow
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by 2marshmallow »

khangaroo wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:31 am I’ve been lurking/posting for a few years and haven’t seen too many wine threads pop up so I figured I would start one where we could chat about some favorite varietals, wines, products (I just got some Riedel glasses for my birthday), wineries we should check out if we are in the area, and just random things wine-related.

I’ve only started to get into wines when I met my wife several years ago but we’re lucky enough to live in Portland, OR and surrounded by world-class wineries. We’ve become wine club members at 2 places and I feel like I’m starting to taste some of the wine descriptions or maybe I’m just going crazy lol

Please comment on your favorite wines and if you have any recommendations on anything wine-related. One thing I’ve been thinking about is getting a decanter but not really sure if it’s worth it, would love some insight.
Interesting thread! You are lucky to live right near one of the best pinot producing areas in the US. More burgundian in style than most CA pinots. Domain Drouhin and Domain Serene are two of my favorites.

I've been wine enthusiast, drinking wine and trying to be thoughtful/analytical about it since moving to CA in 1986. To give you the benefit of what experience I have:
  • I've learned to take wine reviews with a grain of salt unless a wine gets uniformly excellent reviews. Been disappointed by too many 92-point wines.
    A better way to go about choosing wines is, I think, just to have access to a good vintage chart (Robert Parker for example). A wine from a winery you know and like or that has a good reputation, and from a good vintage is going to be a good bet.
  • One of the best things to have in the world of wine is friends who are enthusiastic about wine. I think wine is meant to be consumed with friends, and they bring different perspectives and share the cost of trying new wines.
  • We've had the best luck with wine/food pairings when choosing wines that are consistent geographically with the food. Bourgogne (or even new world pinot's) with boeuf bourguignon, or rioja/ribera/priorat with spanish food, etc.
  • A wise man once said, and I've sadly proven this true, that more wine has been ruined by drinking to late (too mature) than too young.
  • I don't think the many wine clubs now available (e.g., WSJ) are doing us any favors, especially if you have access to a good wine shop. Being a member of a winery is a different story and has been a lot of fun (DW and I are members of Ch. Montelena and Ridge). We can easily attend their events.
Some of my favorite wine pairings:
Pinot Noir with salmon
Bordeaux or Cabernet with ribeye on the grill
Montlouis-sur-Loire with shellfish, esp raw oysters
Sauternes with fruit tart or creme brulee

Cheers,
2marshmallow
BogleFan510
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by BogleFan510 »

Fun thread.

Lots of wine experience in our houshold, having made wine at home and worked with/friends with MWs/MSs. Such a topic! My first advice is to support independently owned wine shops and wineries that match your drinking styles. Good people lead one to good wine and good values. Big corporate wine can be soulless, at times.

That said, I will add that it is worth exploring your local Costco and their Kirkland Sig brand labeled wines. They vary by store, but Costco wine buyers do have access to some excellent values in branded and private label wines, spanning from Napa Cab to French Sancerres to Argentina Malbec or German Reisling. While not always to my tastes, the values are often exceptional.
tenkuky
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by tenkuky »

2marshmallow wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm
Some of my favorite wine pairings:
Pinot Noir with salmon
Bordeaux or Cabernet with ribeye on the grill
Montlouis-sur-Loire with shellfish, esp raw oysters
Sauternes with fruit tart or creme brulee

Cheers,
2marshmallow
YES!
And don't forget to also pair:

Riesling with spicy Asian food
Malbec (in lieu of Cab) with red meat
Sauvignon blanc with green salads
Chianti/Toscana with Italian food esp with red tomatoes
Tawny ports with cheese plates
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AllMostThere
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by AllMostThere »

DW & I both love a good Late Harvest Reisling. Something about a cool night kissed grape that makes the wine light, smooth, flavorful and sweet. In my uneducated wine opinion, the best we have found are the various wineries in the Traverse City area. Most can be had for < $20/bottle. :thumbsup
It is not about how much you make; it is about how much you keep and how well you invest it. - Author Unknown | Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today. - Author James Dean
tenkuky
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by tenkuky »

AllMostThere wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:40 pm DW & I both love a good Late Harvest Reisling. Something about a cool night kissed grape that makes the wine smooth, flavorful and sweet. In my uneducated wine opinion, the best we have found are the various wineries in the Traverse City area. Most can be had for < $20/bottle. :thumbsup
Columbia Crest/Chateau Ste. Michelle (WA state) have wonderful variety of Rieslings (from Late Harvest to Dry) at price points < $10 and widely available in stores. Check them out.
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AllMostThere
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by AllMostThere »

tenkuky wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:47 pm Columbia Crest/Chateau Ste. Michelle (WA state) have wonderful variety of Rieslings (from Late Harvest to Dry) at price points < $10 and widely available in stores. Check them out.
Sounds good, I'll keep an eye out for this one. Thanks. We recently found a Late Riesling of all places at Aldi! It was actually imported from Germany and ~ $8. Can't miss it as it's in a dark blue bottle. Pretty good and seemed to be in Goldy Locks position of sweet and dry (i.e., just right). Thanks.
It is not about how much you make; it is about how much you keep and how well you invest it. - Author Unknown | Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today. - Author James Dean
dekecarver
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by dekecarver »

I went to the local Total Beverage, asked the Mgr who his most knowledgeable floor rep was for wines. I spoke to that gentleman and told him I hunted and served quiet a bit of wild game and fresh caught seafood, his eyes lit up and off we went down the aisle. That was 5-6 years ago, and every bottle of wine that he has suggested has been spot on for e.g. every day drinking or pairing with various meals. I literally walk in, find D', tell him what I'm preparing, how much I want to spend, let him pick the bottle, and a way I go.

I'd suggest tapping into your local retail sources and find that type of person. It took me a few, but when you find him/her, you will really appreciate how a retail sommelier can enhance your wine enjoyment.
02nz
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by 02nz »

alpenglow wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:59 pm How could I forget dry Riesling? Big fan of both German and Finger Lakes Rieslings.
Austrians arguably do dry Riesling even better than Germans. Wachau is the most famous region, but all the Austrian wine regions produce excellent Riesling, along with other varietals (Grüner Veltliner is a very food-friendly white wine, and I also like the red Zweigelt).
02nz
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by 02nz »

dekecarver wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:26 pm I went to the local Total Beverage ...
Do you mean Total Wine & More? By far my favorite chain wine retailer. It's so much better than BevMo.
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khangaroo
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by khangaroo »

2marshmallow wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm
khangaroo wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:31 am I’ve been lurking/posting for a few years and haven’t seen too many wine threads pop up so I figured I would start one where we could chat about some favorite varietals, wines, products (I just got some Riedel glasses for my birthday), wineries we should check out if we are in the area, and just random things wine-related.

I’ve only started to get into wines when I met my wife several years ago but we’re lucky enough to live in Portland, OR and surrounded by world-class wineries. We’ve become wine club members at 2 places and I feel like I’m starting to taste some of the wine descriptions or maybe I’m just going crazy lol

Please comment on your favorite wines and if you have any recommendations on anything wine-related. One thing I’ve been thinking about is getting a decanter but not really sure if it’s worth it, would love some insight.
Montlouis-sur-Loire with shellfish, esp raw oysters
My wife and I are huge fans of oysters and will usually get it wherever they serve them and have also seeked them out along the Pacific coast. There is an oyster restaurant on the way to Port Townsend in Washington State that we’ve been wanting to try that looks incredible but haven’t had a chance to make our way back up there. We will definitely try this pairing on our next oyster night at home!
tenkuky
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by tenkuky »

khangaroo wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:23 am
2marshmallow wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm
khangaroo wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:31 am I’ve been lurking/posting for a few years and haven’t seen too many wine threads pop up so I figured I would start one where we could chat about some favorite varietals, wines, products (I just got some Riedel glasses for my birthday), wineries we should check out if we are in the area, and just random things wine-related.

I’ve only started to get into wines when I met my wife several years ago but we’re lucky enough to live in Portland, OR and surrounded by world-class wineries. We’ve become wine club members at 2 places and I feel like I’m starting to taste some of the wine descriptions or maybe I’m just going crazy lol

Please comment on your favorite wines and if you have any recommendations on anything wine-related. One thing I’ve been thinking about is getting a decanter but not really sure if it’s worth it, would love some insight.
Montlouis-sur-Loire with shellfish, esp raw oysters
My wife and I are huge fans of oysters and will usually get it wherever they serve them and have also seeked them out along the Pacific coast. There is an oyster restaurant on the way to Port Townsend in Washington State that we’ve been wanting to try that looks incredible but haven’t had a chance to make our way back up there. We will definitely try this pairing on our next oyster night at home!
Sancerre is another good oyster pairing. See here for more ideas...
https://www.foodandwine.com/wine/best-w ... ir-oysters
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alpenglow
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by alpenglow »

02nz wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:34 pm
alpenglow wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:59 pm How could I forget dry Riesling? Big fan of both German and Finger Lakes Rieslings.
Austrians arguably do dry Riesling even better than Germans. Wachau is the most famous region, but all the Austrian wine regions produce excellent Riesling, along with other varietals (Grüner Veltliner is a very food-friendly white wine, and I also like the red Zweigelt).
Austrian wines are great and often great values as well. I'm already a big fan of GV, but I need to explore more Austrian Riesling.

Edit: Alsace produces some great Riesling as well.
Last edited by alpenglow on Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nowizard
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Nowizard »

For everyday drinking, we tend to purchase those with screw tops since we do not drink a bottle and feel screw tops preserve taste better than replacing the cork. Mostly drink Cabernet or red blends, preferring the latter more recently. Austin Hope (2019) is a current favorite for a more upscale wine at about $50. Also like Prisoner. We enjoy Oregon for Pinot, California for Cabernet in addition to French. Italian, not very much.

Tim
2marshmallow
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by 2marshmallow »

Nowizard wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:34 am For everyday drinking, we tend to purchase those with screw tops since we do not drink a bottle and feel screw tops preserve taste better than replacing the cork. Mostly drink Cabernet or red blends, preferring the latter more recently. Austin Hope (2019) is a current favorite for a more upscale wine at about $50. Also like Prisoner. We enjoy Oregon for Pinot, California for Cabernet in addition to French. Italian, not very much.

I've found Italian wines to be austere and tannic, in general, especially Brunellos. They require significant bottle aging and also decanting. IMHO, they are the hardest wines to appreciate. But if you're willling to age and decant, they can be great.

2marshmallow

Tim
MMiroir
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by MMiroir »

I am lucky in that my wife enjoys to cook a variety of foods, and I have tried to be her amateur sommelier over the years. When we first got married, and I would buy mixed wines by the case to get a 10 percent discount. At first, the budget was around $120 a case, but with inflation and higher income levels, that grew to $150, then $180, then $240 a case over a 30 year period. Buying mixes cased worked well as my wife cooks a variety of dishes well, and I don't like drinking the same kind of wine more than once a few months.

Over the years, we have developed a go to list of favorite wines/producers that I always get a few bottles of upon release of a new vintage. Some of them are as follows:

American Zinfandel - Ridge Lytton Springs/Geyserville
Barbaresco - Produttori del Barbaresco
Bordeaux - La Vieille Cure
Cotes du Rhone - Guigal CDR
Chablis - Domaine Servin
Gigondas - Raspail Ay

When we bought our house a few decades ago, we had a wine cellar constructed in the basement. It holds about 300 bottles, but typically had it between 25 to 40% full, mostly with wine that was ready to drink or only needed a few years in the bottle to come together. It has only been in the past year once we achieved our retirement goals early that I have splurged to filling out the cellar with wines that need time to age like Brunello, Barolo, Bordeaux and Port. Fortunately, 2015 and 2016 were great years for Brunello as was 2018 for Bordeaux, so we have a bunch of wine that hopefully will drink nicely after 2026.

Some comments on wine collecting:

Scores - We were fortunate that we started drinking wine when Robert Parker was well into his newsletter reviews. I found that his palate matched up well with mine, and his championing of Zinfandel and Southern Rhone wines helped guide our early wine purchases. Since he stopped doing reviews directly, I have yet to find a wine critic that I agree with that much. If Robert Parker and I had an R-squared of 0.90, someone like Jeb Dunnuck would barely hit 0.50. I don't find the Wine Spectator magazine ratings to be terribly reliable either, but everyone has a different palate.

Vintages - Take ratings of recent vintages that are still on sale with a grain of salt. While winemakers are quick to boast about great vintages, they tend to overhype poor vintages especially when the wines are offered for sale. It is only several years later when the bad vintages are off the shelf when a more accurate appraisal of a vintage come out. Also, the importance of vintage varies tremendously with location and varietal. In my experience, California Cabs and Zinfandel have very little variance based on vintage. On the other hand, Bordeaux and most Italian wines will vary significantly based on vintage, with Rhone's someplace in between.

Bottle Rot - If you like aged wine, it can be tempting to buy an older vintage from the store when you find them. I have had a poor experience doing this in the past, with maybe 1 out of 3 turning out the way I expected. Now I tend to buy wines from the most recent vintage only and get them into by cellar to avoid buying a bottle that has sat on the shelf for years.
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alpenglow
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by alpenglow »

MMiroir wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:57 pm
American Zinfandel - Ridge Lytton Springs/Geyserville
Barbaresco - Produttori del Barbaresco
Bordeaux - La Vieille Cure
Cotes du Rhone - Guigal CDR
Chablis - Domaine Servin
Gigondas - Raspail Ay
Great list!

There is a lot of wine out there that gives Zin a bad name. Ridge is the pinnacle for me. I've got a nice vertical of Ridge LS going.

Guigal CdR - amazing value!

Gigondas and Vacqueyras are both favorites of mine. Nice values compared to CdP.

You seem like someone who would be on /r/wine. Do you post there?
GG1273
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by GG1273 »

Dyloot wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:56 am
GG1273 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:07 pm I'm in NJ so might not get a lot of the smaller run batches from CA, OR or WA here

A few we've liked
Reds
Hartford Court Russian River Pinot Noir
Hartford Court Lands Edge Pinot Noir
Hess Collection Lion Tamer Red Blend
Stags Leap Petite Sirah (a personal favorite)
Georgrafico La Pevera Toscana
El Enemigo Malbec
Alto Moncayo Garnacha

Whites
For us, CA Sauvignon Blancs are too sweet
Here are 2 drier ones from Sancerre
Both are excellent
Lauverjat Karine Sancerre Blanc
Gérard Boulay Sancerre à Chavignol Blanc
I live in Sonoma County (about 20 minutes from Hartford Court) and once worked for Hartford's parent company. That brand is a gem.

I know numerous winemakers who grab it at our local markets whenever they go to a social gathering. It's a very safe purchase for less than $50.

If you're ever out visiting us you should drop in. They have tasting rooms (I believe) in both downtown Healdsburg and at the winery itself outside of Forestville.

A friend of my wife's moved to Sacramento area after college. Normally, they'd come east to see her parents but her parents relocated to FL. So, we'll probably head west late spring and stop by Hartford Court. I was at a larger store this morning and saw that they have a Zin too so picked up a bottle to try. Thanks for the recommendation!

https://www.vivino.com/US-NJ/en/hartfor ... nav-search

Lauverjat Karine also has a Pouilly-Fumé (2019 in the store) which was also quite good
MMiroir
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by MMiroir »

alpenglow wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:22 pm
MMiroir wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:57 pm
American Zinfandel - Ridge Lytton Springs/Geyserville
Barbaresco - Produttori del Barbaresco
Bordeaux - La Vieille Cure
Cotes du Rhone - Guigal CDR
Chablis - Domaine Servin
Gigondas - Raspail Ay
Great list!

There is a lot of wine out there that gives Zin a bad name. Ridge is the pinnacle for me. I've got a nice vertical of Ridge LS going.

Guigal CdR - amazing value!

Gigondas and Vacqueyras are both favorites of mine. Nice values compared to CdP.

You seem like someone who would be on /r/wine. Do you post there?
Thanks for the referral to /r/wine. I will check it out.
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unclescrooge
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by unclescrooge »

I've become a huge fan of central California wines. So much so, we bought a vacation house in Paso Robles recently.

We're members at Oso Libre, LXV, Copia and Mcprice Myers. We have friends who are members at Denner, Eberle, Parrish. When you are members, you get free wine tastings whenever you go usually for 4 people.
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rob
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by rob »

The club stuff can be ok but I never found them useful as it was always odd ball stuff you could never find locally and it does not change as you find the styles you like.

Instead: Get a broad range of wines and find one or two you like... then get some more around that style/region and taste... rinse and repeat and after a while you will get some you like. Ignore price and buy where your comfortable... I have had some amazing (to my taste) wines from $1K to $10.... and I have had terrible (to my taste) wines in that same range. After some time, you will notice a pattern in the styles you like.

Another thing to ignore IMO is that wheel and this wine with this food etc.... I get snooty looks from servers when I order light-red with fish - I hate most white wines, so the "right" paring is wasted on me. Drink what tastes good to you.

While on things to ignore - any of those silly points systems... Does no end of harm IMO.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Tag for later! I’ll need some dedicated time for this thread ;)
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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El Greco
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by El Greco »

As a Boglehead, I naturally gravitate toward excellent values in wine. Here are 3 off the top of my head that I am currently enjoying:

St Cosme Cotes du Rhone $15.00
Chateau St Michelle Dry Riesling $8.00
K Syrah "The Deal" $25.00 (a Washington State wine From Charles Smith who is making some fabulous wines at every price point)

These prices are what I pay at Total Wine in my area. Cheers!
MaxDakota
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by MaxDakota »

We buy most of our wine from Trader Joe’s. Some of their domestic stuff is bland, I’ve yet to have a bad imported wine from TJ’s though!
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by UpperNwGuy »

I prefer old world wines to new world wines — with a few exceptions. My wine rack usually holds a mix of Spanish, French, and Italian reds and mostly French whites.

I go to Spain often and have toured a number of wineries in the Rioja region. My favorite high-end reds are all from the Barrio de la Estación in Haro, Rioja: López de Heredia Viña Tondonia Reserva, La Rioja Alta Viña Ardanza Reserva, Muga Selección Especial Reserva, and CVNE Imperial Reserva. Those four wineries are all clustered together around a railroad siding. I also like wines from Ribera del Duero, Priorat, Bordeaux, Burgundy, Barolo, Barbaresco, and Cabernet Sauvignon from Chile's Maipo Valley. For whites, my favorites are Chablis and Sancerre.

My everyday wines are much less expensive. My house wines are the Perrin Reserve Cotes du Rhone (red and white), and the other wines I always have on hand are Lopez de Haro Rioja Reserva, an Albariño, Henry Fessy Beaujolais Villages, an inexpensive Bordeaux, Durand Loire Valley Sauvignon Blanc, a Picpoul de Pinet, Santa Cristina Toscana (red and white), Cetamura or Busi Chianti, and Cousiño Macul Cabernet Sauvignon. I also like to try wines from Greece, Lebanon, and Palestine.

I'm a sherry lover and usually have fino, amontillado, and oloroso sherries on hand.

I buy everything locally. I've never had wine shipped to me, and I've never brought back bottles from my travels.
midebo
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by midebo »

FoolishJumper wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:46 pmI'm also a huge fan of getting great wine and great prices (even if I haven't previously tried it and am trusting online reviews to figure what will be a good fit for our palates). Wine Woot used to be a good source with very knowledgeable members who could speak to offerings, which Casemates has replaced Wine Woot. But my happiest find over the past few years has been de Negoce, which gets great wines at great prices without knowing the specific source of the wine/grapes (sort of the hotwire.com of wine). I've gotten about 5 cases from them over the past 20 months or so (plus four cases I've bought for others as gifts), and we've been extremely happy with every one of them, and prices are much better than I can get, even at someplace like Costco - ranging from $10-20 per bottle for wine that retails at 3-10 times those prices.
We have been longtime customers of Cameron Hughes, now CHWine. In its heyday it was an simply unbeatable value proposition -- diverse bottlings from great estates across the world's great wine regions sold anonymously at a significant discount under the CH label. We have been treated to some truly exceptional $20-30 bottles over the years, and even the "duds" have been decent value for the money. That said, since Hughes sold the business a few years back and it has become CHWine, we have ordered less. The offerings seem fewer and more inconsistent, but there are a few favorites that we continue to enjoy and order regularly. The Napa and Sonoma cabs and zins are generally reliable and well priced. Pinot Noirs are more hit and miss but there have been a couple excellent ones this past year or so. We have had good luck with the Spanish offerings, mostly tempranillos and albarinos, as well. Still, we have gone from 4 cases per year to 1 or 2.

We were excited to learn last year that Hughes was back in the direct to consumer wine biz with De Negoce, and we placed our first order before the holidays. We look forward to our first tastings later this year, with high hopes that it delivers the kind of consistently exceeded expectations that CH built his reputation on.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by sean.mcgrath »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:09 pm
tripu11 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:59 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:52 pm
tripu11 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:38 pm Consider using the Cellar Tracker App instead.
Doesn't that one have a membership fee? Vivino is free.
Cellar Tracker is free. If you make an optional donation, you can get additional average pricing data.
It has hidden reviews that it won't let me view because I am not a member.
No, that is not really correct. I assume you mean the Pro Reviews? Mostly you have to subscribe to that review site; paying the donation will only get a very few.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by sean.mcgrath »

calmaniac wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:02 pm I'd love to drink red wine more regularly, but since I only would be drinking a glass a day, I hesitate opening bottles since the wine goes bad before I finish the bottle.

Any suggestions for how to keep wine fresh for 3-4 days? I've haven't had much luck with Vacu-vin, etc. Anyone use nitrogen devices?
Coravin will work for that. It uses Argon.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by sean.mcgrath »

dbr wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:43 pm So my naive question is how does a wine shopper have assurance that he has avoided a bad wine to buy?
An example is that I don't like champagne at all. I once bought a pricey bottle of what anyone would say was a very high quality champagne just to figure it out and sure enough I didn't like it at all, not even close. It didn't seem different from any other hack champagne that people serve. When people feature champagne at an event I just don't drink at all or choose ginger ale.

Also, by way of comparison I definitely have sensitivity and preference among single malts, so the idea does compute. Wine is all the same to me, within a variety with an occasional exception that somehow seems really good. It is also true all the single malt I would ever buy is not cheap. My wife, of course, would not in a million years even sniff a whiskey.
Like your malts, you have to get a sense for what you like, of course (for me it's peaty malts and leather/tobacco Bordeaux :-) ). But you will never have the same level of assurance as your whiskey -- vintages matter a lot, bottles can have faults, storage matters. I see exploration and variety as part of the fun. I use Wine Spectator for more expensive bottles: the reviews are very descriptive, so I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting.

Btw, Champagne is an odd one because there is not one "Champagne style." They can use red or white grapes; steel tanks or wooden vats; very different age profiles of the wine being used. The "house style" is what tends to be consistent. E.g., crisp and fruity like Laurent Perrier or bready / yeasty like Bollinger.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by dbr »

sean.mcgrath wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 am
dbr wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:43 pm So my naive question is how does a wine shopper have assurance that he has avoided a bad wine to buy?
An example is that I don't like champagne at all. I once bought a pricey bottle of what anyone would say was a very high quality champagne just to figure it out and sure enough I didn't like it at all, not even close. It didn't seem different from any other hack champagne that people serve. When people feature champagne at an event I just don't drink at all or choose ginger ale.

Also, by way of comparison I definitely have sensitivity and preference among single malts, so the idea does compute. Wine is all the same to me, within a variety with an occasional exception that somehow seems really good. It is also true all the single malt I would ever buy is not cheap. My wife, of course, would not in a million years even sniff a whiskey.
Like your malts, you have to get a sense for what you like, of course (for me it's peaty malts and leather/tobacco Bordeaux :-) ). But you will never have the same level of assurance as your whiskey -- vintages matter a lot, bottles can have faults, storage matters. I see exploration and variety as part of the fun. I use Wine Spectator for more expensive bottles: the reviews are very descriptive, so I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting.

Btw, Champagne is an odd one because there is not one "Champagne style." They can use red or white grapes; steel tanks or wooden vats; very different age profiles of the wine being used. The "house style" is what tends to be consistent. E.g., crisp and fruity like Laurent Perrier or bready / yeasty like Bollinger.
Thanks for the comments. I see the point about so much more variation. Naturally we are not talking about ruined bottles. I get that.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by MMiroir »

sean.mcgrath wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 am
dbr wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:43 pm So my naive question is how does a wine shopper have assurance that he has avoided a bad wine to buy?
An example is that I don't like champagne at all. I once bought a pricey bottle of what anyone would say was a very high quality champagne just to figure it out and sure enough I didn't like it at all, not even close. It didn't seem different from any other hack champagne that people serve. When people feature champagne at an event I just don't drink at all or choose ginger ale.

Also, by way of comparison I definitely have sensitivity and preference among single malts, so the idea does compute. Wine is all the same to me, within a variety with an occasional exception that somehow seems really good. It is also true all the single malt I would ever buy is not cheap. My wife, of course, would not in a million years even sniff a whiskey.
Like your malts, you have to get a sense for what you like, of course (for me it's peaty malts and leather/tobacco Bordeaux :-) ). But you will never have the same level of assurance as your whiskey -- vintages matter a lot, bottles can have faults, storage matters. I see exploration and variety as part of the fun. I use Wine Spectator for more expensive bottles: the reviews are very descriptive, so I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting.

Btw, Champagne is an odd one because there is not one "Champagne style." They can use red or white grapes; steel tanks or wooden vats; very different age profiles of the wine being used. The "house style" is what tends to be consistent. E.g., crisp and fruity like Laurent Perrier or bready / yeasty like Bollinger.
It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, but a bad wine to buy is one you don't like or isn't a good match with your meal. The only way to find out if you like a wine is to try it with a meal you would enjoy. It doesn't matter if the ghost of Robert Parker gave it a 100 rating, if the wine does not enhance the meal, then it is a bad wine for you.

For those new to wine, I would suggest getting an inexpensive mixed case or half case with each wine from a different country/region, and see which ones you like and dislike. Rinse and repeat, until you can get a feel of what you like or don't like, or is a match for different kinds of food. Also, many higher priced wines are expensive because they have aging potential and are meant to be drunk years after the initial purchase. You aren't capturing any of that potential if you open them up early, so skip expensive wines when you start. Many expensive wineries offer lower priced wine meant for immediate consumption. For example, many Brunello producers offer a Rosso di Montalcino that is considerably cheaper and easier drinking than their main wine.

For Champagne, the vast majority of cheap sparkling wide and expensive Champaign sold in the US is produced in the "Brut" style, which is very dry with little or no sugar. If you don't like those, try a demi-sec, which has a moderate amount of sweetness, or a Doux, which is somewhat sweeter still. The Brut style is very modern, as traditionally Champaign was produced in a wide variety of sweetness levels. We found that Demi-Secs were much better matches with food than Brut, and all of the Champaign we buy now is in that style. However, it is difficult to find, as seemingly 95% of Champaign sold seems to be some version of Brut.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by sean.mcgrath »

MMiroir wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:27 am
For Champagne, the vast majority of cheap sparkling wide and expensive Champaign sold in the US is produced in the "Brut" style, which is very dry with little or no sugar. If you don't like those, try a demi-sec, which has a moderate amount of sweetness, or a Doux, which is somewhat sweeter still. The Brut style is very modern, as traditionally Champaign was produced in a wide variety of sweetness levels. We found that Demi-Secs were much better matches with food than Brut, and all of the Champaign we buy now is in that style. However, it is difficult to find, as seemingly 95% of Champaign sold seems to be some version of Brut.
Indeed. Champagne was invented at the height of the British sugar plantation boom and it showed. Champagne sweetness used to start out mostly at our Doux (50+ g/l) and go up from there. "Russian style" was up to 300 g/l! (Coke is about 100 :oops: )

I agree with the demi-sec suggestion. Although for some foods (e.g., oysters) I would definitely go with dry and crisp.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by tenkuky »

sean.mcgrath wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:09 pm
MMiroir wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:27 am
For Champagne, the vast majority of cheap sparkling wide and expensive Champaign sold in the US is produced in the "Brut" style, which is very dry with little or no sugar. If you don't like those, try a demi-sec, which has a moderate amount of sweetness, or a Doux, which is somewhat sweeter still. The Brut style is very modern, as traditionally Champaign was produced in a wide variety of sweetness levels. We found that Demi-Secs were much better matches with food than Brut, and all of the Champaign we buy now is in that style. However, it is difficult to find, as seemingly 95% of Champaign sold seems to be some version of Brut.
Indeed. Champagne was invented at the height of the British sugar plantation boom and it showed. Champagne sweetness used to start out mostly at our Doux (50+ g/l) and go up from there. "Russian style" was up to 300 g/l! (Coke is about 100 :oops: )

I agree with the demi-sec suggestion. Although for some foods (e.g., oysters) I would definitely go with dry and crisp.
And for sake of trademark, only wines produced in that region in France can be called Champagne. The ones in US better be called Sparkling Wine. Same with Hungary and Tokaji/Tocai.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Bogle7 »

tenkuky wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:07 pmAnd for sake of trademark, only wines produced in that region in France can be called Champagne. The ones in US better be called Sparkling Wine.
Nope.
https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole ... gne-legal/
The 100-Year-Old Loophole That Makes California Champagne Legal
"And yet if you’ve ever seen bottles of bubbly labeled California Champagne – perhaps produced by Korbel, Cook’s or André – what you’ve seen is perfectly legal. The loophole that makes these labels legal is the result of a fight that began in the trenches of the first World War, with roots going back to the nineteenth century."
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Artful Dodger
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Artful Dodger »

FoolishJumper wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:46 pm
calmaniac wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:02 pm Any suggestions for how to keep wine fresh for 3-4 days? I've haven't had much luck with Vacu-vin, etc. Anyone use nitrogen devices?
And here I was going to suggest a vacu-vin, as DW and I have had good luck with it and can easily go three days from opening to finish consuming with little issue. You can get a coravin (what many of the nicer wineries in Napa/Sonoma that my DW and I have visited use for the bottles that they don't normally offer in their tasting rooms), but the cost can end up running $1-5 per bottle for the argon capsule cost (plus the up front cost of $100+ for the coravin device). I have trouble with that when I'm talking about a nice bottle that I paid sub-$30 for (I also always guesstimated it was twice that cost before I did research just now), but DW and I have some special bottles that approach and exceed $100 retail cost, so we should probably suck it up and just buy a coravin.

I'll also agree to the comment to get Cellar Tracker (for anyone with more than about 20 bottles of wine) - DW and I started out with Vivino that left a good bit to be desired, and Cellar Tracker has been a godsend - our wine is currently spread over multiple storage locations, but it's definitely helpful when we have a 150-200 bottle collection with purchase dates spanning the past seven years or so...
I'll second getting a Coravin. If you buy the capsules on sale, I recall they're around $6 or $7 each. One capsule will get you 8 to 10 uses, or enough for 3 or 4 bottles. Watch a few Youtubes to get the directions down.

It's a whole lot better than a 3-4 day solution. The real nice thing about using the Coravin is the wine stays as fresh as if it had never been opened. You can go months, probably years. I have no qualms about opening up three different wines in a night if that's what I want.

Also, plus 1 for Cellartracker. I pay the additional $30 yearly for the cellar valuation plus just to give back to the service. I use it a lot.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by tenkuky »

Bogle7 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:16 pm
tenkuky wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:07 pmAnd for sake of trademark, only wines produced in that region in France can be called Champagne. The ones in US better be called Sparkling Wine.
Nope.
https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole ... gne-legal/
The 100-Year-Old Loophole That Makes California Champagne Legal
"And yet if you’ve ever seen bottles of bubbly labeled California Champagne – perhaps produced by Korbel, Cook’s or André – what you’ve seen is perfectly legal. The loophole that makes these labels legal is the result of a fight that began in the trenches of the first World War, with roots going back to the nineteenth century."
Aha! So pre-2006 were grandfathered in, only restriction on labeling of NEW ones after. That's for the link and history lesson.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Dottie57 »

NYCaviator wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:00 am
calmaniac wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:02 pm I'd love to drink red wine more regularly, but since I only would be drinking a glass a day, I hesitate opening bottles since the wine goes bad before I finish the bottle.

Any suggestions for how to keep wine fresh for 3-4 days? I've haven't had much luck with Vacu-vin, etc. Anyone use nitrogen devices?
There are some pretty good higher-end wines in boxes now. (I hesitate to call them boxed wines because they aren't the normal gross stuff you'd find in boxes a few years ago). Boxed wine is great when you want to have a glass every once in a while; it doesn't go bad like bottled wine does after a day.
What are the higher end box wines?
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by tenkuky »

Dottie57 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:02 pm
NYCaviator wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:00 am
calmaniac wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:02 pm I'd love to drink red wine more regularly, but since I only would be drinking a glass a day, I hesitate opening bottles since the wine goes bad before I finish the bottle.

Any suggestions for how to keep wine fresh for 3-4 days? I've haven't had much luck with Vacu-vin, etc. Anyone use nitrogen devices?
There are some pretty good higher-end wines in boxes now. (I hesitate to call them boxed wines because they aren't the normal gross stuff you'd find in boxes a few years ago). Boxed wine is great when you want to have a glass every once in a while; it doesn't go bad like bottled wine does after a day.
What are the higher end box wines?
From Wine Spectator (2019)...
https://www.winespectator.com/articles/ ... -and-boxes
walterbird
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by walterbird »

The only boxed wine I buy is Kirkland cabernet sauvignon sold at Costco. It is $15 and the box holds 3 bottles. Its great
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by interwebopinion »

You're lucky to live in Portland near to the excellent terroir of the Willamette Valley - IMO (and speaking as a Californian) the top place for Pinots in the US. Sorry Santa Rosa and all the other pretenders.

Also, much of wine is psychology - https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... lonk-taste

So don't overthink it.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by willthrill81 »

My DW and I don't care for most wines at all, particularly those that are very dry. They just taste bitter to us.

We both really like Stella Rosa Black, though all the Stella Rose wines we've tried were very good. It's an award winning, sweet, dessert wine that makes me think of incredibly good blackberries, and we can occasionally get it on sale locally for around $10. Nearly everyone who has tried it, including those who don't normally like wine, really enjoy it.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by Cruise »

Highly recommend Sojourn Winery. Once you buy from them (online), you will get on their list for new releases. There is no required purchases, staff are great to deal with, and their Pinot noirs are truly amazing.
Last edited by Cruise on Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by oysterboy »

dbr wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:19 pm
alpenglow wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:00 pm
tripu11 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:38 pm Consider using the Cellar Tracker App instead.
I agree. There are lots of wines that I think are pretty terrible that are rated well on Vivino.
In what sense are the wines terrible. I am genuinely curious what makes for a terrible wine!
In addition to being "flawed" (corked or oxidized), the wine can simply be seriously out of balance in terms of the acid, tannins, fruit, or alcohol, which happens often from lesser producers. Depending on the type of imbalance, the wine will lack energy and freshness, flavor, richness, or taste hot (excess alcohol). In general, just not well made nor pleasant to drink. By far, the best resource one can have for avoiding bad wine is to find and support a good wine merchant, preferably locally.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by oysterboy »

tripu11 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:38 pm Consider using the Cellar Tracker App instead.
+1
oysterboy
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by oysterboy »

I have been a passionate wine enthusiast and collector for about 35 years. When I say "collector", I have purchased a large allocation of wines that usually required extensive (8+ years) aging before entering their prime drinking window. But, I have also regularly sought good value wines for routine drinking. I was pleased to see above a couple of posts extolling Ridge Vineyards, because the light bulb came on for me when I tasted a Ridge Lytton Springs Zin around 1985. A bit like the Supreme Court definition of pornography, "You know it when you see it."

While most of those who love wine will seek and drink wines that don't require aging, my observation has been that a large number (both young and middle-aged) will gravitate over time to a deep interest in higher-end wines (not solely). This is particularly true of those who find like-minded enthusiasts who, together, begin an incremental upward spiral in interest in more intriguing wines. It is a fascinating hobby. Accordingly, for those who can spare the bucks, I would recommend periodically buying a few bottles of higher-end wines for aging that are warranted by some research. I am now 74 and have friends who became quite passionate about wine when they were around 60-65. Having now experienced aged wines, they greatly lament not having bought more outstanding wines years ago that would be maturing now. As someone mentioned above, buying already-aged wine is a crapshoot.

There are always regions that are great values. During my early years, it was the Rhone, then Spain. Italy, other than the Piedmont, was largely a confused mess. But, today, Italy (Tuscany in particular for me) and the Loire Valley are where you can routinely find exceptional wines at reasonable prices; also, several regions of Spain.

Even with the various research sources (Vinous Media and Cellar Tracker are both very useful, but not perfect by any means), there is no substitute for finding a knowledgeable, well-intentioned retailer who wants you to be pleased, now and in the future.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by sean.mcgrath »

oysterboy wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:47 am
the light bulb came on for me when I tasted a Ridge Lytton Springs Zin around 1985. A bit like the Supreme Court definition of pornography, "You know it when you see it."

I would recommend periodically buying a few bottles of higher-end wines for aging that are warranted by some research. I am now 74 and have friends who became quite passionate about wine when they were around 60-65. Having now experienced aged wines, they greatly lament not having bought more outstanding wines years ago that would be maturing now. As someone mentioned above, buying already-aged wine is a crapshoot.
Maybe I should start a thread on the light bulb moment. :-)
In my first job in 1987, we had a training in SF and the local team did an amazing job giving us a week to remember while sticking to budget. I had my first cab, Rutherford Hill, at a restaurant. The guy across from me at the table and I were both wide-eyed. I had no idea a wine could taste like that!

I do wonder about your crapshoot comment, though. Have you had bad experiences? I used to be quite proud that all of my wines had been aged in my own cellar, but now at 57 I do not have that many en primeur seasons left to age wines for decades. I started buying a bit at auction last year, and so far the experience has been only positive. Idealwine takes shipment and inspects, although they can't guarantee storage conditions of course. Still a small sample size, but so far so good. I just had some 1990 Sociando-Mallet delivered yesterday -- looking forward to trying it.
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Re: Calling all BH wine enthusiasts!

Post by MMiroir »

sean.mcgrath wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:39 pm Maybe I should start a thread on the light bulb moment. :-)
I grew up in a wine drinking family, but it was mostly Gallo's Hearty Burgundy type wines. My lightbulb moment was when an employer invited me over for dinner. He apologized for his wife's cooking beforehand, but opened up a bottle of 82 Chateau Talbot that he had left over from a charity event. That wine was amazing. Unfortunately, none of the Chateau Talbot's I have had since came close to it, but that got me going.
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