Where to buy KN95 masks?

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squirm
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by squirm »

So can the 3M N95 mask (without the valve) that are sold at Home Depot etc that state it's for sanding, painting and fiberglass be used for protection from Covid? If so, why can't they just state that on the box instead of leaving everyone guessing??
dbr
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by dbr »

squirm wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:07 am So can the 3M N95 mask (without the valve) that are sold at Home Depot etc that state it's for sanding, painting and fiberglass be used for protection from Covid? If so, why can't they just state that on the box instead of leaving everyone guessing??
They can and they don't because those products were invented for and sold as industrial protective products regulated by OSHA and NIOSH rules. They are not medical products regulated by FDA and tested according to ASTM standards. There is no sgtandard regulatory process for population wide use of devices for protection against airborne disease. (But see below) There is a regulatory process for vaccines and medications, which is what you read about all the time. As far as that goes NIOSH and OSHA regulation is for industrial use and not for home use, where you are also on your own.

Probably a good publication on what does exist for population use is this from the FDA: https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/cor ... s-covid-19

There is a surgical mask equivalent which is regulated for medical use: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057463/

The situation here is that the COVID pandemic is the first experience pretty much worldwide since the Spanish Flu epidemic where the world population has needed universal use of respiratory protection in daily life. When people complain that supplies of face masks were not available it is because there was a sudden huge need for this kind of protection that did not exist before and was not in the product design process or the supply chain. Keep in mind that except for habits in Japan and maybe China the daily use of ordinary surgical masks was not a worldwide use either and even the basic 3 ply mask was in short supply. That is how we got cloth masks, bandanas, etc.
student
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by student »

dbr wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:30 am
student wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:06 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:14 pm Just as an fyi, if you want to upgrade beyond N95/kn95/kf94, note that you can also buy a reusable half-mask respirator that takes p100 filters. These are much more protective than N95, but are vented, so you need to put a surgical mask on over it (to protect others). They're supposedly more comfortable to wear, but harder to talk in. These are the kinds of masks that are required if you're remediating asbestos or toxic mold:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Facepiece-Res ... B000FTEDMM
How do you clean them properly?
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/179 ... iruses.pdf

It might be a fair statement that equipment like this is really intended to be used in organizations where an approved procedure for assigning, managing, and maintaining equipment is in place. For the civilian at home disposable masks are probably more appropriate.
Thanks.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by Sandtrap »

RobLyons wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:54 am For reference, these are the N95 we wear in the hospital. If you can find them locally that's best, I also found them for $50 for a 20 pack on Ebay. Besides that, we wear surgical masks (not cloth). I understand the post is about KN95 but wanted to just point that out. Also you may want to consider eye protection in densely populated situations.

Happy hunting!

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057463/
These are amongst the best. Used in the ER, paramedics, etc, where available.

The strap is an elastic fabric and lasts long instead of the cheap stamped on rubber bands that break right away on the typical mask.

Why would one want to compromise one's health with cloth. . . a thought with a million onions and opinoins.
j :D
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roamingzebra
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by roamingzebra »

InMyDreams wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:35 pm
To me, the advantage of both of these US companies - you buy directly from them and don't need to worry about knock offs.
This reminds me...does anyone know the validity of the so-called 'flame test" for testing the effectiveness of a mask? It was supposed to help root out poorly designed masks, though I only saw it mentioned by Amazon sellers, not in any scientific articles. The idea was to hold a lit match in front of the mask at a certain distance and try to blow it out. If you could blow it out, that meant the mask was too porous.
dbr
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by dbr »

roamingzebra wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:42 pm
InMyDreams wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:35 pm
To me, the advantage of both of these US companies - you buy directly from them and don't need to worry about knock offs.
This reminds me...does anyone know the validity of the so-called 'flame test" for testing the effectiveness of a mask? It was supposed to help root out poorly designed masks, though I only saw it mentioned by Amazon sellers, not in any scientific articles. The idea was to hold a lit match in front of the mask at a certain distance and try to blow it out. If you could blow it out, that meant the mask was too porous.
I don't know an accurate answer to this. What I do know is that a fundamental problem in designing any filter is how to reduce the penetration of contaminant as much as possible while also demanding no more pressure differential across the filter than necessary. Unless some very special innovations are used a filter that is easy to blow through at low pressure is not going to be an effective filter. Innovations include electrostatic charging of the filter fibers, increasing the filter area (which is why fiberglass HEPA filters are pleated), and doing clever things with the depth of the filter and mixing large and small fibers. A major issue is how fast the filter pressure increases as it plugs up with material. That is not an issue with COVID protection. The whole issue is moot if you have an actual spec on filter efficiency, which is why specifically to buy an N95 or KN95 mask which has to pass a standards test. The same applies at a much lower level of protection to ASTM Class 1, 2, or 3 surgical masks, which fail in effectiveness due to poor (or no) face seal for purposes of protecting against aerosols, though such masks are much, much better than nothing.

In this model there is an effectiveness estimate for different kinds of masking on the contaminators and the victims respectively:

https://www.microcovid.org/?distance=si ... ype=pfizer
increment
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by increment »

dbr wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:14 pm
roamingzebra wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:42 pm This reminds me...does anyone know the validity of the so-called 'flame test" for testing the effectiveness of a mask?
I don't know an accurate answer to this. What I do know is that a fundamental problem in designing any filter is how to reduce the penetration of contaminant as much as possible while also demanding no more pressure differential across the filter than necessary. Unless some very special innovations are used a filter that is easy to blow through at low pressure is not going to be an effective filter. Innovations include electrostatic charging of the filter fibers, increasing the filter area (which is why fiberglass HEPA filters are pleated), and doing clever things with the depth of the filter and mixing large and small fibers. A major issue is how fast the filter pressure increases as it plugs up with material. That is not an issue with COVID protection. The whole issue is moot if you have an actual spec on filter efficiency, which is why specifically to buy an N95 or KN95 mask which has to pass a standards test.
The meltblown fabric in most disposable respirators is supposed to carry that slight electrostatic charge. With these materials, good filtration doesn't require low porousness. On the contrary, they should be as easy to breathe through as possible, in order to prevent excess leakage. The standards tests are supposed to take these kind of things into consideration.
dbr
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by dbr »

increment wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:44 pm
dbr wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:14 pm
roamingzebra wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:42 pm This reminds me...does anyone know the validity of the so-called 'flame test" for testing the effectiveness of a mask?
I don't know an accurate answer to this. What I do know is that a fundamental problem in designing any filter is how to reduce the penetration of contaminant as much as possible while also demanding no more pressure differential across the filter than necessary. Unless some very special innovations are used a filter that is easy to blow through at low pressure is not going to be an effective filter. Innovations include electrostatic charging of the filter fibers, increasing the filter area (which is why fiberglass HEPA filters are pleated), and doing clever things with the depth of the filter and mixing large and small fibers. A major issue is how fast the filter pressure increases as it plugs up with material. That is not an issue with COVID protection. The whole issue is moot if you have an actual spec on filter efficiency, which is why specifically to buy an N95 or KN95 mask which has to pass a standards test.
The meltblown fabric in most disposable respirators is supposed to carry that slight electrostatic charge. With these materials, good filtration doesn't require low porousness. On the contrary, they should be as easy to breathe through as possible, in order to prevent excess leakage. The standards tests are supposed to take these kind of things into consideration.
That is correct. And it is true that too high pressure across the media results in leakage. What I don't have is the numbers to correlate that to a "blow out a flame" test.

There is not a "supposed to" about the electrostatic charging. That is an actual process step in manufacturing that material and is tested to a specification. The enhancement in filter efficiency is not small. Maybe the language "very special" was a bit of a misspeak.
YeahBuddy
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by YeahBuddy »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:34 pm
RobLyons wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:54 am For reference, these are the N95 we wear in the hospital. If you can find them locally that's best, I also found them for $50 for a 20 pack on Ebay. Besides that, we wear surgical masks (not cloth). I understand the post is about KN95 but wanted to just point that out. Also you may want to consider eye protection in densely populated situations.

Happy hunting!

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057463/
These are amongst the best. Used in the ER, paramedics, etc, where available.

The strap is an elastic fabric and lasts long instead of the cheap stamped on rubber bands that break right away on the typical mask.

Why would one want to compromise one's health with cloth. . . a thought with a million onions and opinoins.
j :D


I just wish everyone had your same thought process! I had to leave my gym yesterday because 1/3 were not wearing their masks properly and most were talking about themselves, family, or friends being sick!

I wear a simple surgical masks, same as at work. Considering upgrading to KN95. Kids and wife already "leveled up".

For OP, did you find a good source? Would like more for the wife and kids.
Light weight baby!
squirm
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by squirm »

I've got family members that wear homemade cloth. They know they barely work, if at all. I asked them, if you're going to wear something, why not something that actually works like a astm level 3.
nalor511
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by nalor511 »

RobLyons wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:43 am
Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:34 pm
RobLyons wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:54 am For reference, these are the N95 we wear in the hospital. If you can find them locally that's best, I also found them for $50 for a 20 pack on Ebay. Besides that, we wear surgical masks (not cloth). I understand the post is about KN95 but wanted to just point that out. Also you may want to consider eye protection in densely populated situations.

Happy hunting!

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057463/
These are amongst the best. Used in the ER, paramedics, etc, where available.

The strap is an elastic fabric and lasts long instead of the cheap stamped on rubber bands that break right away on the typical mask.

Why would one want to compromise one's health with cloth. . . a thought with a million onions and opinoins.
j :D


I just wish everyone had your same thought process! I had to leave my gym yesterday because 1/3 were not wearing their masks properly and most were talking about themselves, family, or friends being sick!

I wear a simple surgical masks, same as at work. Considering upgrading to KN95. Kids and wife already "leveled up".

For OP, did you find a good source? Would like more for the wife and kids.
Easily available now at Ace, office Depot, Staples
InMyDreams
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by InMyDreams »

Mudpuppy
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by Mudpuppy »

Rainmaker41 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:57 am For N-95s, I've recently bought 3M Aura respirators via the manufacturer's website:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/ ... 3322475844
I am disappointed in the blue rubberized bands on the 3M Aura masks I bought from Home Depot. They're comfortable, but don't seem to have the same grip to the face compared to the fabric-coated elastic bands on the 3M vented N95 masks I use when I'm just guarding against smoke/pollen/dust instead of interacting with other people. The poorer quality to the straps have led to the mask moving around on my face during wear, which means it's not maintaining a good seal. I've been contemplating sewing my own fabric-coated elastic bands on the masks to see if it improves things.

Home Depot also has non-vented one-piece 3M N95 masks (instead of the trifold style of the Aura), but they look to have the same rubberized bands as the Aura, so I haven't bothered putting in a curbside pickup order for them. They were willing to ship the 3M Aura masks to a home (since they fold flat and are easy to ship), but you had to get the one-piece masks at the store. I also haven't tried to get a curbside pickup order from Home Depot since Omicron broke out, so your mileage may vary right now.

I've long been a fan of protective gear, well before the pandemic, and 3M has been my primary go-to brand, so that's probably making me more disproportionately disappointed in the rubberized bands. They're just inferior to the fabric-coated elastic bands IMHO. I suppose I should be glad that the 3M vented N95 masks with fabric-coated elastic bands came back in stock as quickly as they did, since I use them for scooping/changing clay kitty litter and for gardening, and they've been invaluable lately during California wildfire season when I know I won't be interacting with others.

I also have a P100 respirator, but that's for woodworking and mucking out any rodent nests I discover on the property. I feel like the P100 respirator is a bit of overkill for finishing my small woodworking projects, but I haven't been able to find 3M R95 masks that use the fabric-coated elastic bands in stock since the pandemic.
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black jack
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by black jack »

NY Times Wirecutter article published last week: Where to Buy N95 & KN95 masks online https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/revi ... ks-online/
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rjbraun
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by rjbraun »

Mudpuppy wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:23 am
Rainmaker41 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:57 am For N-95s, I've recently bought 3M Aura respirators via the manufacturer's website:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/ ... 3322475844
I am disappointed in the blue rubberized bands on the 3M Aura masks I bought from Home Depot. They're comfortable, but don't seem to have the same grip to the face compared to the fabric-coated elastic bands on the 3M vented N95 masks I use when I'm just guarding against smoke/pollen/dust instead of interacting with other people. The poorer quality to the straps have led to the mask moving around on my face during wear, which means it's not maintaining a good seal. I've been contemplating sewing my own fabric-coated elastic bands on the masks to see if it improves things.

Home Depot also has non-vented one-piece 3M N95 masks (instead of the trifold style of the Aura), but they look to have the same rubberized bands as the Aura, so I haven't bothered putting in a curbside pickup order for them. They were willing to ship the 3M Aura masks to a home (since they fold flat and are easy to ship), but you had to get the one-piece masks at the store. I also haven't tried to get a curbside pickup order from Home Depot since Omicron broke out, so your mileage may vary right now.

I've long been a fan of protective gear, well before the pandemic, and 3M has been my primary go-to brand, so that's probably making me more disproportionately disappointed in the rubberized bands. They're just inferior to the fabric-coated elastic bands IMHO. I suppose I should be glad that the 3M vented N95 masks with fabric-coated elastic bands came back in stock as quickly as they did, since I use them for scooping/changing clay kitty litter and for gardening, and they've been invaluable lately during California wildfire season when I know I won't be interacting with others.

I also have a P100 respirator, but that's for woodworking and mucking out any rodent nests I discover on the property. I feel like the P100 respirator is a bit of overkill for finishing my small woodworking projects, but I haven't been able to find 3M R95 masks that use the fabric-coated elastic bands in stock since the pandemic.
Interesting. I guess the Aura bands may not provide enough resistance / friction. Is it possible the bands may be too large relative to the circumference of your head, in which case maybe shortening them could help?

I am waiting to receive my first shipment of 3M Auras. They seem so popular, I am curious to try them. I wonder if 3M designed the Aura 9205+ in response to the current pandemic or if it's a product that predates covid-19. The reviews seem to emphasize how comfortable they are.

I have some 3M N95s I bought a few years ago. Whether rational or not, I have kind of set those aside to use for particular occasions - like a several hours train ride or other extended use situations where I may want "extra protection". No question, the respirator leaves visible lines on my face where it was tight against my face. I haven't noticed this with another N95 style I also use (not 3M).

Based on the details below, the 3M Aura 9210+ seems to offer cloth-covered elastic (headbands). They may not be so readily available, though.

https://www.protectly.co/blogs/latest-p ... aura-masks
Mudpuppy
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by Mudpuppy »

rjbraun wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:58 pm Based on the details below, the 3M Aura 9210+ seems to offer cloth-covered elastic (headbands). They may not be so readily available, though.

https://www.protectly.co/blogs/latest-p ... aura-masks
Thanks for the info. You're right though, the 9210+ model doesn't seem to be readily available from reputable sources. Even Amazon says they're out of stock currently, and I avoid using Amazon for masks right now due to counterfeit concerns.

I did try sewing elastic bands on to one of my blue rubber band Aura masks. The first attempt was too short of an elastic band, but once I dialed in to the right length, it did improve the fit to my face. It was just a long and painful process (literally, the material is hard to pass a needle through even with a thimble). I only went to the hassle last night because my water heater chose now, of all times, to spring a leak and I knew I'd have to let the plumber into the garage today. I wanted a good fitting N95 mask for that interaction.
Lou Sevens
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by Lou Sevens »

I have been using from Amazon a brand called Hueta- what I like is they are individually wrapped- prices have gone up since the variant-
in the fall I got 60 for around $30 now it is back up to $80. In the past I doublemasked with these and the bleu ones.
dbr
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by dbr »

rjbraun wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:58 pm

Based on the details below, the 3M Aura 9210+ seems to offer cloth-covered elastic (headbands). They may not be so readily available, though.

https://www.protectly.co/blogs/latest-p ... aura-masks
My shipment form Protectly is currently in the USPS facility in Billings MT on its way to me. They were out of stock and then in.

I think the Aura design is more comfortable than some but it is really not possible to get N95 face seal as comfortable as just using a 3 ply surgical mask that offers around 50% protection. I am actually astonished that most clinics and doctors offices are not using N95 protection. I entered one office and we faced each other over our N95's and when I mentioned it that doctor said he could not imagine seeing patients with less protection than that. In fairness most offices do somewhat screen patients before admitting them to appointments, and the urgent care clinic has been segregating COVID cases from other patients.
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CardinalRule
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by CardinalRule »

InMyDreams wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:54 am CDC on "Counterfeit Masks"
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/usernot ... tResp.html
As it relates to KN95, most of the list seems to be about "Misrepresentation of NIOSH-Approval," rather than counterfeits per se. Given that NIOSH doesn't approve KN95 masks anyway, I would be more interested in whether a particular mask really meets the Chinese government standard, but that seems to be impossible to do. Definitely caveat emptor out there right now.

I've read that KF94 (Korean standard) masks might be less susceptible to counterfeiting by Asian manufacturers, but I don't know if this is actually the case.
Last edited by CardinalRule on Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
InMyDreams
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by InMyDreams »

The PuraVita KN95's that I get are individually wrapped. Really, I wish they weren't - I fell guilty about the plastic and the waste.

Beware of counterfeit masks, even ones that labeled 3M N95s. There were reports earlier in the pandemic that some hospitals had even been recipients of them, and how cleverly some of the counterfeits feigned the real thing. If you search for "Counterfeit 3M N95s", you'll see various articles, and a link to 3M's own site telling you how to tell the difference.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/worker-heal ... vid-fraud/

I mentioned in a previous post that I'm buying directly from manufacturers. If I were to go back to using a surgical mask, I would add FixTheMask's mask brace to increase filtration.
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by tibbitts »

dbr wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:30 am
student wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:06 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:14 pm Just as an fyi, if you want to upgrade beyond N95/kn95/kf94, note that you can also buy a reusable half-mask respirator that takes p100 filters. These are much more protective than N95, but are vented, so you need to put a surgical mask on over it (to protect others). They're supposedly more comfortable to wear, but harder to talk in. These are the kinds of masks that are required if you're remediating asbestos or toxic mold:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Facepiece-Res ... B000FTEDMM
How do you clean them properly?
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/179 ... iruses.pdf

It might be a fair statement that equipment like this is really intended to be used in organizations where an approved procedure for assigning, managing, and maintaining equipment is in place. For the civilian at home disposable masks are probably more appropriate.
From what I've seen these in practice are typically used by very small businesses with only a few employees (if any other than the owner), so definitely not what you'd think of as an "organization." However for purposes of Covid I believe most people use the versions with the two plastic housings for the filter material, so the exterior can be wiped clean. And of course everybody (with regards to Covid) wears a mask on top of these, with the ear loops attached around the filter housings. Still, the fact that they have an exhalation valve seems to result in them being banned from some environments where masks are required. Obviously if everybody wore a mask emphasizing intake filtering it wouldn't matter, since in theory nobody would care about exhaling viruses. It seems like for whatever reason the authorities determined that the emphasis should be on preventing Covid from being exhaled and didn't especially care about it be inhaled.
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by ResearchMed »

dbr wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:44 am
rjbraun wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:58 pm

Based on the details below, the 3M Aura 9210+ seems to offer cloth-covered elastic (headbands). They may not be so readily available, though.

https://www.protectly.co/blogs/latest-p ... aura-masks
My shipment form Protectly is currently in the USPS facility in Billings MT on its way to me. They were out of stock and then in.

I think the Aura design is more comfortable than some but it is really not possible to get N95 face seal as comfortable as just using a 3 ply surgical mask that offers around 50% protection. I am actually astonished that most clinics and doctors offices are not using N95 protection. I entered one office and we faced each other over our N95's and when I mentioned it that doctor said he could not imagine seeing patients with less protection than that. In fairness most offices do somewhat screen patients before admitting them to appointments, and the urgent care clinic has been segregating COVID cases from other patients.
Do the 3M 9210+ masks have the thin foam strip along the top of the mask, at the bridge of the nose?
We've found that makes a big difference in terms of "leakage".
That seemed to be the most likely source of failure. Several of the N95 masks seemed to fit well everywhere else.

We found the flexible N95 masks fit "better" than the "cup type", where the rigidity seemed to interfere with a close fit.
(Maybe we each have odd shaped faces/heads? :twisted: )

We've got some of the 3M 9205+, but the elastics have always seemed to be the first point of failure, although not specifically with the 3M masks (yet?).

Thanks.

RM
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dbr
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by dbr »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm
dbr wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:44 am
rjbraun wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:58 pm

Based on the details below, the 3M Aura 9210+ seems to offer cloth-covered elastic (headbands). They may not be so readily available, though.

https://www.protectly.co/blogs/latest-p ... aura-masks
My shipment form Protectly is currently in the USPS facility in Billings MT on its way to me. They were out of stock and then in.

I think the Aura design is more comfortable than some but it is really not possible to get N95 face seal as comfortable as just using a 3 ply surgical mask that offers around 50% protection. I am actually astonished that most clinics and doctors offices are not using N95 protection. I entered one office and we faced each other over our N95's and when I mentioned it that doctor said he could not imagine seeing patients with less protection than that. In fairness most offices do somewhat screen patients before admitting them to appointments, and the urgent care clinic has been segregating COVID cases from other patients.
Do the 3M 9210+ masks have the thin foam strip along the top of the mask, at the bridge of the nose?
We've found that makes a big difference in terms of "leakage".
That seemed to be the most likely source of failure. Several of the N95 masks seemed to fit well everywhere else.

We found the flexible N95 masks fit "better" than the "cup type", where the rigidity seemed to interfere with a close fit.
(Maybe we each have odd shaped faces/heads? :twisted: )

We've got some of the 3M 9205+, but the elastics have always seemed to be the first point of failure, although not specifically with the 3M masks (yet?).

Thanks.

RM
I haven't got the 9210 yet, but my understanding is that the 9210 is the 9205 with a better strap.

I don't think it is possible for these mask to be 95% protective without foam on the nose. The foam is certainly more comfortable.

I don't think there is a problem with 9205 straps except when you take the mask on and off a lot of times and they get stretched out.
Katietsu
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by Katietsu »

Boy, this country is vast. Hospital only supplies surgical masks for most employees. Private practice employees might not wear masks at all. Heck some of the people giving Covid vaccinations were not wearing masks.

Anyway, a mask is not helpful unless you leave it on securely and do not fidget with it. So, in most settings, when I am considering wearing it for 8+ hours daily, comfort vs risk will be a consideration. My go to mask with filtering has been the cloth Vogmask for this reason. Comfortable, good filtering (tests near N95), decent seal with the head strap and multiple available sizes. For next few weeks will probably switch to PureVita KN95 most of the time. Based on my personal experience, if you are a shorter person with a shorter eye to chin distance, you might have trouble with the true N95 masks found in/at retail stores. They seem to all be large and are not as accommodating with respect to size as the KN95’s.
Last edited by Katietsu on Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dbr
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by dbr »

Katietsu wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:17 pm Boy, this country is vast. Hospital only supplies surgical masks for most employees. Private practice employees might not wear masks at all. Heck some of the people giving Covid vaccinations were not wearing masks.

Anyway, the most important feature of a mask is to wear it, leave it on, not fidget with it. So, in most settings, when you are considering wearing it for 8+ hours daily, comfort vs risk will be a consideration.
Adequate PPE in any job that actually needs it at a serious level is uncomfortable, onerous, and expensive. Manufacturers do try to improve the situation.

Sometimes the best comfort solution is a more elaborate system, such as a filtered air helmet rather than a face mask.

An excellent solution in health care is the same solution as in many work environments, which is remote meeting. My wife has a remote rather than a personal appointment to review some diagnostics with a specialist even as we speak.
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by Katietsu »

dbr wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:42 pm
Sometimes the best comfort solution is a more elaborate system, such as a filtered air helmet rather than a face mask.
Used one once that was awesome. I have no idea how expensive it was. Though, I am contemplating paying someone to do a disgusting clean up job in an old root cellar that I am hesitating on. Maybe it would work for both infectious disease prevention and dank nasty cleanup situation?
dbr
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by dbr »

Katietsu wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:56 pm
dbr wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:42 pm
Sometimes the best comfort solution is a more elaborate system, such as a filtered air helmet rather than a face mask.
Used one once that was awesome. I have no idea how expensive it was. Though, I am contemplating paying someone to do a disgusting clean up job in an old root cellar that I am hesitating on. Maybe it would work for both infectious disease prevention and dank nasty cleanup situation?
I think you will see news videos of people on COVID wards wearing filtered air helmets.

Example here: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v100559007/ price $1512.37
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by rjbraun »

dbr wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:12 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm
dbr wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:44 am
rjbraun wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:58 pm

Based on the details below, the 3M Aura 9210+ seems to offer cloth-covered elastic (headbands). They may not be so readily available, though.

https://www.protectly.co/blogs/latest-p ... aura-masks
My shipment form Protectly is currently in the USPS facility in Billings MT on its way to me. They were out of stock and then in.

I think the Aura design is more comfortable than some but it is really not possible to get N95 face seal as comfortable as just using a 3 ply surgical mask that offers around 50% protection. I am actually astonished that most clinics and doctors offices are not using N95 protection. I entered one office and we faced each other over our N95's and when I mentioned it that doctor said he could not imagine seeing patients with less protection than that. In fairness most offices do somewhat screen patients before admitting them to appointments, and the urgent care clinic has been segregating COVID cases from other patients.
Do the 3M 9210+ masks have the thin foam strip along the top of the mask, at the bridge of the nose?
We've found that makes a big difference in terms of "leakage".
That seemed to be the most likely source of failure. Several of the N95 masks seemed to fit well everywhere else.

We found the flexible N95 masks fit "better" than the "cup type", where the rigidity seemed to interfere with a close fit.
(Maybe we each have odd shaped faces/heads? :twisted: )

We've got some of the 3M 9205+, but the elastics have always seemed to be the first point of failure, although not specifically with the 3M masks (yet?).

Thanks.

RM
I haven't got the 9210 yet, but my understanding is that the 9210 is the 9205 with a better strap.

I don't think it is possible for these mask to be 95% protective without foam on the nose. The foam is certainly more comfortable.

I don't think there is a problem with 9205 straps except when you take the mask on and off a lot of times and they get stretched out.
RM: I don't have the 9210+ model to answer your question, though I agree with dbr that the 9210 is likely the 9205 with better straps. The "Conclusion" at the end of the protectly.co website also seems to suggest this:

"These three masks are quite similar to each other but with some distinct differences. For example, the main difference between the 9205+ and 9210+ models is the material of headbands - rubber vs elastic braided cloth. And the main difference between the 1870+ and 9205/9210 models is that the 1870+ is cleared for surgical/healthcare use and features a higher fluid resistance."

Interesting to hear your experience with "flexible" vs "cup" N95. For me, the cup-style helps to provide a tight seal by, basically, applying pressure against my full face; I guess having retained all that "baby fat" maybe was a good thing :P

dbr: Interesting point about N95s and the foam strip at the nose bridge. I have some Indiana-brand N95s with little or no cushioning at the bridge. They are flat-fold in style with a nose piece similar to what I have on my KN95s (also flat-fold). Now that you have noted this aspect, I think it highlights the reason I prefer my 3M N95s (model 8210, which has foam and metal strip around the nose area) over the Indiana N95s when I need my "best mask" for higher-risk encounters.
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by masteraleph »

Been using the ones from Bona Fide masks, which I've found more comfortable than a lot of others, and is local to me so I've gone to their warehouse to pick up the package.

(Also a great business story- their original business is named Ball Chain Manufacturing, whose primary business pre-pandemic was making those metal chains/strings with the little balls that are use as substitutes for lanyards and other such things, and they used their connections in China to secure a distribution deal with Powecom early in the pandemic, which probably saved their business)
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by JoeRetire »

Katietsu wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:17 pm Boy, this country is vast. Hospital only supplies surgical masks for most employees. Private practice employees might not wear masks at all. Heck some of the people giving Covid vaccinations were not wearing masks.
Basically, we have state-based rules. In a different forum, we could discuss the wisdom (or lack thereof) of that versus a national system like other countries.
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by JoeRetire »

I wore an N95 mask on flights to and from California recently. I'm sure they were effective, but I found them uncomfortable.
I've heard that KF94 masks are more comfortable.

Can anyone confirm that anecdote? Anyone know where to find small quantities of non-fake KF94s to try?
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by tibbitts »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:23 pm
Katietsu wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:17 pm Boy, this country is vast. Hospital only supplies surgical masks for most employees. Private practice employees might not wear masks at all. Heck some of the people giving Covid vaccinations were not wearing masks.
Basically, we have state-based rules. In a different forum, we could discuss the wisdom (or lack thereof) of that versus a national system like other countries.
I don't see why you say state-based if you mean mask requirements. Many mask requirements or recommendations are imposed by local government, and many others by businesses independent of government.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by JoeRetire »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:30 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:23 pm
Katietsu wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:17 pm Boy, this country is vast. Hospital only supplies surgical masks for most employees. Private practice employees might not wear masks at all. Heck some of the people giving Covid vaccinations were not wearing masks.
Basically, we have state-based rules. In a different forum, we could discuss the wisdom (or lack thereof) of that versus a national system like other countries.
I don't see why you say state-based if you mean mask requirements. Many mask requirements or recommendations are imposed by local government, and many others by businesses independent of government.
The primary basis for the rules comes from the state. Some local governments and some corporations have their own rules. That's why I wrote "basically".
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Re: Where to buy KN95 masks?

Post by Flyer24 »

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