Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

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michaeljc70
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Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

I had a dispute with a merchant that I tried to resolve with the merchant. The chat transcript with the merchant shows they made a mistake and overcharged me and would credit me the money back. I never got the credit. I submitted this chat transcript as well as a receipt and a picture of the items with price tags on them (this was an online order for groceries) showing the overcharge. Citi "resolved" the dispute in favor of the merchant and said I didn't provide enough documentation. The merchant admitting a mistake and promising a credit doesn't seem to be enough. Have people won disputes on purchases with Citi cards? I've had the best luck with disputes on Amex (though over 30 years I haven't had many disputes). It seems most of the credit card companies view the merchants more as their customers than the credit card holder.

They say if I present more evidence they will reopen the case, but I see no option online to do that. They obviously don't want to make this easy for you. I was overcharged 4 times in a couple of weeks by this merchant and am pretty fed up. We are not talking big bucks but we are also not talking $5.
Goal33
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Goal33 »

I had the same issue with Amex.
an_asker
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by an_asker »

Nearly three decades ago, I was in a similar (but nowhere the same) situation - in my case, the merchant (AAMCO) never accepted any error. Citibank didn't waive any of my about $2.5k bill :oops:
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SmileyFace
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by SmileyFace »

I stopped using Citi for various reason including them denying a dispute I filed that was actually something they did without paying the merchant (they blocked a charge as fraudulent then charged me for it anyway - I used a different card with the merchant after the charge was blocked). They cost me $100 - reversed some of my 2% cash back.
I suspect they are somehow autoreviewing disputes and blocking them and the people you get on the phone in the foreign call centers barely speak english so can't comprehend problems when you explain them.
Good luck. I would find an alternative to Citi.
(Edit Add: and they sat on the dispute for the full 60 days saying it was "pending" before finally telling me it was denied and recharging me the $100).
Last edited by SmileyFace on Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chicago60
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Chicago60 »

I had a dispute with a merchant where the purchase was made with a platinum AmEx card. I sent a detailed letter with exhibits to AmEx, which AmEx apparently forwarded to the merchant, since the merchant voluntarily dropped its claim. It is not clear to me how much effort AmEx made in helping my position, or if it simply forwarded details and the merchant simply dropped it.
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lthenderson
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by lthenderson »

I'm 0 and 1 in disputing a charge I made with Citibank. Like you, I found the online process less than desirable in trying to communicate with them and was only given hazy answers in return. But I've had a Citibank card for nearly 30 years probably and only had one thing I've disputed that was unsuccessful. All the other times have been fraudulent charges which have been immediately dealt with. So overall, I figure that is probably par for the course no matter what credit card company I'm with and I haven't been inclined to ditch my Doublecash card.
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CardinalRule
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by CardinalRule »

Pretty sure that Citibank is my least favorite bank, but my dispute (Citi MasterCard) was resolved in a week, back in September 2021. It was for online ticketing for an event that did not occur (and the vendor was not being responsive) and so the facts were pretty clear in this case and the amount was less than $150.
wander
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by wander »

It happened to my visa. With the information I provided (merchant name, person at the merchant that I communicated who knows about the wrong charge, amount, date/time of the event), someone from the credit card company called to verify first hand. The money was returned back to my account quickly.
KlangFool
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

I do not dispute my charges with the merchant. I always dispute my charges via my credit cards (chase and citi). The only exceptions were my purchase from amazon. I never have any problem.

I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

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Watty
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Watty »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:23 am I submitted this chat transcript as well as a receipt and a picture of the items with price tags on them (this was an online order for groceries) showing the overcharge.
One thing to be aware of is that with Instacart is that the price you pay is higher than the price in the store. That is how they make their money. The few times I used Instacart I really did not like it since I had no clear idea of just how much extra I was paying for their service.

If they mark up something like meat by 10% you may have run into a situation where you are seeing the price on the package which is the lower in store price.

I switched to a use a different grocery store which did not use Instacart so that I could get the in store price.
dukeblue219
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by dukeblue219 »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am
I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
Some merchants will ban you for filing a CC dispute. No idea if that's allowed but it happens. Amazon is notorious for this on large items when they get a chargeback.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by KlangFool »

dukeblue219 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:05 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am
I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
Some merchants will ban you for filing a CC dispute. No idea if that's allowed but it happens.
dukeblue219,

And, why should I care? If the merchant has too many CC disputes, they would be banned from the CC companies. Their losses would be bigger than mine.

<< Some merchants will ban you for filing a CC dispute.>>

I have never been banned from any merchants. So, I have never heard of this.

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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by dukeblue219 »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:11 am
dukeblue219 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:05 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am
I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
Some merchants will ban you for filing a CC dispute. No idea if that's allowed but it happens.
dukeblue219,

And, why should I care? If the merchant has too many CC disputes, they would be banned from the CC companies. Their losses would be bigger than mine.
I would care if a retailer I frequently purchased from (like Amazon) banned me for too many returns or a chargeback after they denied a refund.

Easy to take a stand that it's the right thing to do, but in practical life it's still a pain in the behind if that happens.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by tibbitts »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am OP,

I do not dispute my charges with the merchant. I always dispute my charges via my credit cards (chase and citi). The only exceptions were my purchase from amazon. I never have any problem.

I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
I completely disagree with that strategy. Most disputes are just misunderstandings and are quickly resolved by the merchant, so I would contact the merchant first. That's required by the terms of the credit card that everyone agrees to: the card agreement (at least the ones I've actually read) states that the card isn't the first line of resolution. And every credit card dispute I've done has required documentation for what steps I've already taken (emails, chat transcripts, etc.) to resolve the dispute. If the merchant won't help I'd contact the card company of course. In the "old days" card companies seemed to be more receptive to especially small-sum disputes, and I was successful in appealing the occasional charge I couldn't work out with the merchant. But lately not so much, even when the evidence has seemed (to me) to entirely support my position. That's especially true when there's a contract with the merchant allowing them to charge you, which you may or may not be aware you agreed to (unless you read every single one of those t&c statements that we all encounter all the time.)
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by invest4 »

Sometimes things simply do not work out in one’s favor…thus if life.

However, one can attempt to choose their partners well and I personally have a very dim view of Citibank and limit my business with them accordingly (only bank promotions). YMMV.
finite_difference
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by finite_difference »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:23 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am OP,

I do not dispute my charges with the merchant. I always dispute my charges via my credit cards (chase and citi). The only exceptions were my purchase from amazon. I never have any problem.

I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
I completely disagree with that strategy. Most disputes are just misunderstandings and are quickly resolved by the merchant, so I would contact the merchant first. That's required by the terms of the credit card that everyone agrees to: the card agreement (at least the ones I've actually read) states that the card isn't the first line of resolution. And every credit card dispute I've done has required documentation for what steps I've already taken (emails, chat transcripts, etc.) to resolve the dispute. If the merchant won't help I'd contact the card company of course. In the "old days" card companies seemed to be more receptive to especially small-sum disputes, and I was successful in appealing the occasional charge I couldn't work out with the merchant. But lately not so much, even when the evidence has seemed (to me) to entirely support my position. That's especially true when there's a contract with the merchant allowing them to charge you, which you may or may not be aware you agreed to (unless you read every single one of those t&c statements that we all encounter all the time.)
+1.

I’ve almost never had to use CC dispute. Maybe once per 10 years. Merchant always fixes any issue. CC dispute is a last resort.
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michaeljc70
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am OP,

I do not dispute my charges with the merchant. I always dispute my charges via my credit cards (chase and citi). The only exceptions were my purchase from amazon. I never have any problem.

I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
To be clear, I did dispute it with Citibank (the CC company). I tried to work it out with the merchant first. The credit card company doesn't want to do customer service for a merchant. However, getting through via chat or phone is next to impossible. I spent over 1 hour on ONE of the 4 overcharges (and then never got the credit) on chat. Then I disputed it with Citibank (my credit card company) who denied it even though the merchant's employee told me they overcharged me and told me I'd get a credit and I have it in writing.
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michaeljc70
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

Watty wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:03 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:23 am I submitted this chat transcript as well as a receipt and a picture of the items with price tags on them (this was an online order for groceries) showing the overcharge.
One thing to be aware of is that with Instacart is that the price you pay is higher than the price in the store. That is how they make their money. The few times I used Instacart I really did not like it since I had no clear idea of just how much extra I was paying for their service.

If they mark up something like meat by 10% you may have run into a situation where you are seeing the price on the package which is the lower in store price.

I switched to a use a different grocery store which did not use Instacart so that I could get the in store price.
Yes, but this wasn't Instacart. One was an online order I picked up and the other was an in store purchase. The in store purchase I will probably bring up next time I go to that store. On the one hand, $80 isn't going to change my life. On the other hand, 4 mistakes (to be clear, this is a corporate computer issue for a large chain) in a short period of time I don't think should be let go. They are cheating customers.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Good Luck! They used to have good customer service, that went out the window when they moved it to a foreign offshore location. Try Chase, they are still US based customer service and you can usually get someone on the phone without having to wait 3 hours.
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finite_difference
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by finite_difference »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:39 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am OP,

I do not dispute my charges with the merchant. I always dispute my charges via my credit cards (chase and citi). The only exceptions were my purchase from amazon. I never have any problem.

I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
To be clear, I did dispute it with Citibank (the CC company). I tried to work it out with the merchant first. The credit card company doesn't want to do customer service for a merchant. However, getting through via chat or phone is next to impossible. I spent over 1 hour on ONE of the 4 overcharges (and then never got the credit) on chat. Then I disputed it with Citibank (my credit card company) who denied it even though the merchant's employee told me they overcharged me and told me I'd get a credit and I have it in writing.
I’d call Citibank and calmly explain the situation to them. If it’s a lot of money, keep calmly and politely making your case. If they don’t resolve it to your satisfaction, visit the bank in person to plead your case.

If they won’t budge, here’s how you win the dispute (although you may lose the money as a lesson learned): ask Citibank to cancel all your accounts. You may need to visit the bank in person to close a bank account. Then take your business elsewhere to BoA, Wells Fargo, Chase, Ally, Fidelity, Schwab, etc.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by anoop »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:53 am I would find an alternative to Citi.
Is there such a thing? Aren't all banks more or less similar with regard to (lack of) customer service?
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michaeljc70
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

anoop wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:12 am
SmileyFace wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:53 am I would find an alternative to Citi.
Is there such a thing? Aren't all banks more or less similar with regard to (lack of) customer service?
+1. That is what I was going to say. Some are better and some are worse.....but in the end they are all competitors and have similar cost structures. Covid hasn't helped customer service and will probably be used for years as an excuse for poor service.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by rtt22 »

Many years ago with a Chase credit card, I expected a $40 credit from a merchant and did not receive it. Chase just bounced me back to the merchant which was totally non responsive. I gave up after a year of following up with both Chase and the merchant. Unlike fraudulent charges which are usually resolved quickly, I'm afraid trying to get a credit to happen when it's not happening from the credit card company is tough.
Edit: I cancelled the Chase credit card afterwards. Apparently my action had no effect on Chase :shock:
Last edited by rtt22 on Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jags4186
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Jags4186 »

The following have been very good with disputes of low amounts initiated on their websites:

AMEX
Citi

I've disputed with both on relatively low amounts (<$50) and I generally receive an email instantly saying the dispute has been resolved in my favor and I get statement credit. Whether or not they are footing the bill or actually deducting from the merchant I don't know -- my guess is they figure there's a certain amount where it's cheaper to just give you a refund rather than process the dispute and unless you are an habitual disputer, they just push it through. They also probably have contracts with their merchants that say under $XYZ dispute amount is just going to be deducted with no recourse.

I hate calling AMEX or Citi because their customer service is in a foreign country for the most part and there's always a language barrier. I have never had to dispute a charge on Discover, but it is refreshing that they have US based customer service.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by ResearchMed »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:42 am
Watty wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:03 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:23 am I submitted this chat transcript as well as a receipt and a picture of the items with price tags on them (this was an online order for groceries) showing the overcharge.
One thing to be aware of is that with Instacart is that the price you pay is higher than the price in the store. That is how they make their money. The few times I used Instacart I really did not like it since I had no clear idea of just how much extra I was paying for their service.

If they mark up something like meat by 10% you may have run into a situation where you are seeing the price on the package which is the lower in store price.

I switched to a use a different grocery store which did not use Instacart so that I could get the in store price.
Yes, but this wasn't Instacart. One was an online order I picked up and the other was an in store purchase. The in store purchase I will probably bring up next time I go to that store. On the one hand, $80 isn't going to change my life. On the other hand, 4 mistakes (to be clear, this is a corporate computer issue for a large chain) in a short period of time I don't think should be let go. They are cheating customers.
[emphasis added]

If you think this is a general practice, then file a complaint with your state's Attorney General Office. Include the receipts and whatever "proof" you have. There might be a "Consumer Protection" office within that section. Their website should tell you how to file a complaint.
Those offices tend not to like that sort of widespread practice.

RM
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by IowaFarmWife »

Can you escalate this with the vendor? Is there a manager or a corporate headquarters that you can contact and show them the evidence that you have? We had to do this with a hotel overcharge a few years ago, and the corporate people were very nice and it was resolved within 24 hours. So sorry you're having to deal with this frustration.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by galawdawg »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:42 am
Watty wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:03 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:23 am I submitted this chat transcript as well as a receipt and a picture of the items with price tags on them (this was an online order for groceries) showing the overcharge.
One thing to be aware of is that with Instacart is that the price you pay is higher than the price in the store. That is how they make their money. The few times I used Instacart I really did not like it since I had no clear idea of just how much extra I was paying for their service.

If they mark up something like meat by 10% you may have run into a situation where you are seeing the price on the package which is the lower in store price.

I switched to a use a different grocery store which did not use Instacart so that I could get the in store price.
Yes, but this wasn't Instacart. One was an online order I picked up and the other was an in store purchase. The in store purchase I will probably bring up next time I go to that store. On the one hand, $80 isn't going to change my life. On the other hand, 4 mistakes (to be clear, this is a corporate computer issue for a large chain) in a short period of time I don't think should be let go. They are cheating customers.
Did the pricing error/overcharge issue not appear in your cart before you completed the purchase? Whenever I have made an online purchase (whether for delivery or pickup) the price for each item, tax, any delivery fee and the grand total appears before I confirm the purchase and complete checkout.

If your credit card was charged for an amount greater than the amount of the purchase that you authorized when you checked out online, then you should be able to submit the screenshot or other confirmation of the order showing your credit card was charged more than that amount.

If the amount charged to your credit card is the same as the order total you authorized, I'm not sure I understand how you were overcharged.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by SmileyFace »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:17 am
anoop wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:12 am
SmileyFace wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:53 am I would find an alternative to Citi.
Is there such a thing? Aren't all banks more or less similar with regard to (lack of) customer service?
+1. That is what I was going to say. Some are better and some are worse.....but in the end they are all competitors and have similar cost structures. Covid hasn't helped customer service and will probably be used for years as an excuse for poor service.
Citi is the only one that has stuck me with an $100 charge that they didn't pass onto the merchant. They are also the only call center I have called where the customer service rep cannot comprehend English. Chase, Elan, BAC, and CapitalOne are all better (although Chase is the only one I have had to call and experienced great service).
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by KlangFool »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:23 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am OP,

I do not dispute my charges with the merchant. I always dispute my charges via my credit cards (chase and citi). The only exceptions were my purchase from amazon. I never have any problem.

I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
I completely disagree with that strategy.
tibbitts,

In my cases, the disputes have to do with XYZ merchant claim that I buy ABC from them. I filed a dispute with CC and ask the merchant to prove it. It ended there.

There are no reason for me to contact a merchant that I did not buy anything from them.

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michaeljc70
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

galawdawg wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:56 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:42 am
Watty wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:03 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:23 am I submitted this chat transcript as well as a receipt and a picture of the items with price tags on them (this was an online order for groceries) showing the overcharge.
One thing to be aware of is that with Instacart is that the price you pay is higher than the price in the store. That is how they make their money. The few times I used Instacart I really did not like it since I had no clear idea of just how much extra I was paying for their service.

If they mark up something like meat by 10% you may have run into a situation where you are seeing the price on the package which is the lower in store price.

I switched to a use a different grocery store which did not use Instacart so that I could get the in store price.
Yes, but this wasn't Instacart. One was an online order I picked up and the other was an in store purchase. The in store purchase I will probably bring up next time I go to that store. On the one hand, $80 isn't going to change my life. On the other hand, 4 mistakes (to be clear, this is a corporate computer issue for a large chain) in a short period of time I don't think should be let go. They are cheating customers.
Did the pricing error/overcharge issue not appear in your cart before you completed the purchase? Whenever I have made an online purchase (whether for delivery or pickup) the price for each item, tax, any delivery fee and the grand total appears before I confirm the purchase and complete checkout.

If your credit card was charged for an amount greater than the amount of the purchase that you authorized when you checked out online, then you should be able to submit the screenshot or other confirmation of the order showing your credit card was charged more than that amount.

If the amount charged to your credit card is the same as the order total you authorized, I'm not sure I understand how you were overcharged.
On all 4 products (which were actually like 20 items because I bought multiple), I did not get the advertised sales price and/or a digital coupon was not applied that I had added to my account.

For the online purchase they give you an estimate online and the final receipt when you pick up the order or have it delivered. This is because there may be substitutions or the weight of produce/meat is not known among other things. It also doesn't itemize discounts you might be entitled to (like Coke is $3.33 but only if you buy 3).

In store, I try to watch closely, but a lot of the discounts come off at the very end of the transaction so the display doesn't accurately reflect the end price as they scan it.

As far as order pickup, I am done with that. It was more hassle than it was worth. I mainly did it because they had a big incentive.

As far as in store, I will be checking my receipt more diligently before I leave the store at this particular chain. This store is owned by a company that has more than 2500 grocery stores.
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galawdawg
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by galawdawg »

Under those circumstances, it sounds as though you probably don't have any additional recourse with Citibank.

Does the retailer/grocery store have a decent return policy? If so, unless you really need the items or they were a very good price even without the discount/coupon, you may want to load them up in your car and return them in store in accordance with their return policy.

Otherwise, sometimes a courteous in-person conversation with the store manager can resolve problems like this. Bring a printout of the chat transcript and your receipts and ask them to issue you a partial refund/store credit for the overcharge there while you wait.

Good luck!
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by tibbitts »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:14 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:23 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:00 am OP,

I do not dispute my charges with the merchant. I always dispute my charges via my credit cards (chase and citi). The only exceptions were my purchase from amazon. I never have any problem.

I do not understand why folks want to dispute their charges with the merchants. I would let my credit card deal with them.

KlangFool
I completely disagree with that strategy.
tibbitts,

In my cases, the disputes have to do with XYZ merchant claim that I buy ABC from them. I filed a dispute with CC and ask the merchant to prove it. It ended there.

There are no reason for me to contact a merchant that I did not buy anything from them.

KlangFool
Sorry I didn't realize that it was a charge that you never made. I was thinking dispute as in a delivery that never showed up or merchandise that was defective, etc. Yes, I would agree then that it would be reasonable to contact the credit card company.
6NDone
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by 6NDone »

I have done a couple of chargebacks with Citi, and both ended in my favor with minimal effort. And back when they offered price protection, I manually filed several claims for items that dropped in price after I purchased them, submitted the ad with the new price, and received the difference in a matter of days.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Horologium »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:53 am I stopped using Citi for various reason ...

I would find an alternative to Citi.
Same here. I never disputed a charge made with a Citibank card, but stopped using them because of other customer service issues.

On the other hand, I've gotten great support from Chase on a couple of charge disputes. I think they are a good alternative to Citi.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Horologium »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:23 am
I completely disagree with that strategy. Most disputes are just misunderstandings and are quickly resolved by the merchant, so I would contact the merchant first. That's required by the terms of the credit card that everyone agrees to: the card agreement (at least the ones I've actually read) states that the card isn't the first line of resolution. And every credit card dispute I've done has required documentation for what steps I've already taken (emails, chat transcripts, etc.) to resolve the dispute.
This. My experience is with Chase, but the first thing they ask is if you've tried to resolve it directly with the merchant.
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celia
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by celia »

I have very few disputes since the merchant usually works it out with me and I get the difference back almost immediately.

My most recent dispute was for a rental car for a week 2 years ago that I paid for while booking and also when I got a better price at the pickup counter. I made a note to follow up later but circumstances were challenging and I didn't see my note until this year. (I also had several trips to the same place that year and was buried in receipts.) Now, both the rental company and Citi say it is too late to dispute, and I agree, although when I originally called up Citi this year, they encouraged me to file the dispute anyways, so I did.


OP, Ask the credit card company what additional documentation they would accept. If items were missing when the ordered arrived, it might just end up being your word against the merchants. If I had items missing on two consecutive orders, I would stop ordering from them, not wait until this happened four times. It looks sort of odd when something is wrong and you keep ordering from them anyways. What is the credit card company supposed to think?
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

celia wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:26 pm I have very few disputes since the merchant usually works it out with me and I get the difference back almost immediately.

My most recent dispute was for a rental car for a week 2 years ago that I paid for while booking and also when I got a better price at the pickup counter. I made a note to follow up later but circumstances were challenging and I didn't see my note until this year. (I also had several trips to the same place that year and was buried in receipts.) Now, both the rental company and Citi say it is too late to dispute, and I agree, although when I originally called up Citi this year, they encouraged me to file the dispute anyways, so I did.


OP, Ask the credit card company what additional documentation they would accept. If items were missing when the ordered arrived, it might just end up being your word against the merchants. If I had items missing on two consecutive orders, I would stop ordering from them, not wait until this happened four times. It looks sort of odd when something is wrong and you keep ordering from them anyways. What is the credit card company supposed to think?
Nothing was missing. I was overcharged. These are groceries from a big chain, but we're not talking a 50 cent overcharge... $80 total.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by hudson »

michaeljc70,

My money is good; I expect the correct products or services for my money.
When I get stiffed by a merchant or a credit card company, I try to work things out at the lowest level. I try to find that person who understands and can fix it. At the credit card level, I read their rules and follow them to the letter while documenting everything along the way. I'll withhold payment of the amount in question.
If that doesn't work, every day I'll do something. I'll file a complaint to Better Business or the FDC or whoever. I'll call the CEO. I'll write letters to the board of directors. I don't ever give up. I also will not pay. Again, every day I'll do something.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

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Last edited by michaeljc70 on Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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vectorizer
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by vectorizer »

Only time I filed a dispute with Citi (Double Cash Back card FWIW) was for a $1000 deposit on a car this summer; the car salesperson misspoke about an option on the car. I went to the dealership in person, then left messages with "managers" and "accounting" with never a live person and never a callback. Considering the large amount, I gave up after five days and filed with Citi. A credit on my credit card account appeared the next day, but the dispute was considered "pending" for 60 days waiting for the merchant (the car dealer) to respond. I was informed the dispute resolution was final two months later. A much more pleasant experience from Citi than I expected.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Luckywon »

I've filed about three disputes with Amex that were resolved in my favor with minimal effort.

I filed one dispute a couple years ago with Citi for $20 over a duplicate parking charge that was resolved instantly in my favor.

Recently I filed a $30 dispute with Citi which to my surprise was denied. This was over a return where I was not credited a refund. They did state I could submit additional documentation and reopen the case but I'm not going to hassle with this any further. I'm disappointed as I thought chargebacks were an easy way to rectify things but that appears not to be the case with Citi at this point. :(
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by seawolf21 »

michaeljc70 wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:17 am
celia wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:26 pm I have very few disputes since the merchant usually works it out with me and I get the difference back almost immediately.

My most recent dispute was for a rental car for a week 2 years ago that I paid for while booking and also when I got a better price at the pickup counter. I made a note to follow up later but circumstances were challenging and I didn't see my note until this year. (I also had several trips to the same place that year and was buried in receipts.) Now, both the rental company and Citi say it is too late to dispute, and I agree, although when I originally called up Citi this year, they encouraged me to file the dispute anyways, so I did.


OP, Ask the credit card company what additional documentation they would accept. If items were missing when the ordered arrived, it might just end up being your word against the merchants. If I had items missing on two consecutive orders, I would stop ordering from them, not wait until this happened four times. It looks sort of odd when something is wrong and you keep ordering from them anyways. What is the credit card company supposed to think?
Nothing was missing. I was overcharged. These are groceries from a big chain, but we're not talking a 50 cent overcharge... $80 total.
Based on first and this post I don't see you having a valid chargeback from a credit card perspective. You have to get the merchant to follow thru on the credit. As you indicated, the chat promising a credit not enough if the merchant's department that is responsible for responding chargebacks disavows the chat. The card issuer (Citi) does not have sole authority on settling chargebacks. The merchant's acquiring bank have input as well. The only thing that Citi can do unilaterally is if they decide to eat the dispute amount themselves.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by sperry8 »

CardinalRule wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:41 am Pretty sure that Citibank is my least favorite bank, but my dispute (Citi MasterCard) was resolved in a week, back in September 2021. It was for online ticketing for an event that did not occur (and the vendor was not being responsive) and so the facts were pretty clear in this case and the amount was less than $150.
I also won a dispute from Citi (without trouble) for an event purchased via online ticketing that never occurred. Vendor said tickets were non-refundable and wouldn't budge. Citi gave money back straight away without hassle :sharebeer
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by michaeljc70 »

seawolf21 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:52 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:17 am
celia wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:26 pm I have very few disputes since the merchant usually works it out with me and I get the difference back almost immediately.

My most recent dispute was for a rental car for a week 2 years ago that I paid for while booking and also when I got a better price at the pickup counter. I made a note to follow up later but circumstances were challenging and I didn't see my note until this year. (I also had several trips to the same place that year and was buried in receipts.) Now, both the rental company and Citi say it is too late to dispute, and I agree, although when I originally called up Citi this year, they encouraged me to file the dispute anyways, so I did.


OP, Ask the credit card company what additional documentation they would accept. If items were missing when the ordered arrived, it might just end up being your word against the merchants. If I had items missing on two consecutive orders, I would stop ordering from them, not wait until this happened four times. It looks sort of odd when something is wrong and you keep ordering from them anyways. What is the credit card company supposed to think?
Nothing was missing. I was overcharged. These are groceries from a big chain, but we're not talking a 50 cent overcharge... $80 total.
Based on first and this post I don't see you having a valid chargeback from a credit card perspective. You have to get the merchant to follow thru on the credit. As you indicated, the chat promising a credit not enough if the merchant's department that is responsible for responding chargebacks disavows the chat. The card issuer (Citi) does not have sole authority on settling chargebacks. The merchant's acquiring bank have input as well. The only thing that Citi can do unilaterally is if they decide to eat the dispute amount themselves.
And how do you do that? Sue them? According to Visa, that is one of the top reasons for a chargeback - a credit has not been processed when the customer expected it would be.

The merchant should have presented that as evidence for their side of the case....they didn't do that. They didn't say the employee made an error. Citi just tried to get rid of me. It is unlikely the merchant even responded to the dispute given the quick turnaround time.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by seawolf21 »

michaeljc70 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:04 am
seawolf21 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:52 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:17 am
celia wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:26 pm I have very few disputes since the merchant usually works it out with me and I get the difference back almost immediately.

My most recent dispute was for a rental car for a week 2 years ago that I paid for while booking and also when I got a better price at the pickup counter. I made a note to follow up later but circumstances were challenging and I didn't see my note until this year. (I also had several trips to the same place that year and was buried in receipts.) Now, both the rental company and Citi say it is too late to dispute, and I agree, although when I originally called up Citi this year, they encouraged me to file the dispute anyways, so I did.


OP, Ask the credit card company what additional documentation they would accept. If items were missing when the ordered arrived, it might just end up being your word against the merchants. If I had items missing on two consecutive orders, I would stop ordering from them, not wait until this happened four times. It looks sort of odd when something is wrong and you keep ordering from them anyways. What is the credit card company supposed to think?
Nothing was missing. I was overcharged. These are groceries from a big chain, but we're not talking a 50 cent overcharge... $80 total.
Based on first and this post I don't see you having a valid chargeback from a credit card perspective. You have to get the merchant to follow thru on the credit. As you indicated, the chat promising a credit not enough if the merchant's department that is responsible for responding chargebacks disavows the chat. The card issuer (Citi) does not have sole authority on settling chargebacks. The merchant's acquiring bank have input as well. The only thing that Citi can do unilaterally is if they decide to eat the dispute amount themselves.
And how do you do that? Sue them? According to Visa, that is one of the top reasons for a chargeback - a credit has not been processed when the customer expected it would be.

The merchant should have presented that as evidence for their side of the case....they didn't do that. They didn't say the employee made an error. Citi just tried to get rid of me. It is unlikely the merchant even responded to the dispute given the quick turnaround time.
That dispute requires a card member to submit a credit card transaction receipt from merchant showing a credit was ran thru the merchant point of sale but the credit for whatever reason didn't show up in the card account. Citi can't submit a chargeback for this dispute reason with just a chat.

If you can't work it out with merchant, you may need to look to FTC.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by mpsz »

michaeljc70 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:23 am The chat transcript with the merchant shows they made a mistake and overcharged me and would credit me the money back. I never got the credit. I submitted this chat transcript as well as a receipt and a picture of the items with price tags on them (this was an online order for groceries) showing the overcharge. Citi "resolved" the dispute in favor of the merchant and said I didn't provide enough documentation. The merchant admitting a mistake and promising a credit doesn't seem to be enough. Have people won disputes on purchases with Citi cards?
What reason did you give when disputing the transaction? If it was "I was overcharged," the dispute was likely closed in their favor because they agreed to give a refund. The bank does not want you to get a double-refund.

I would consider starting a brand-new dispute with the reason as "promised a refund/credit that did not arrive" if that's not the reason you originally used.

Just be aware that if you used a service like Instacart or others, there is an almost 100% chance your account will be banned if your dispute is successful. That practice should be illegal but does not seem to be.

Fwiw, I have disputed two transactions over the years. One was online at Chase for like $8, and they seem to have banned me from making future disputes through their online system. The other was at AmEx over the phone, they made it so easy and were great to deal with.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by seawolf21 »

Here are the VISA dispute reasons.

https://usa.visa.com/content/dam/VCOM/d ... chants.pdf

There are documentation requirements by both cardmember and merchant. In this case I would guess merchant customer service made promises to OP but the merchant team that responds to chargeback is not aware of these promises and simply rejected the dispute.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by Grogs »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:45 am Good Luck! They used to have good customer service, that went out the window when they moved it to a foreign offshore location. Try Chase, they are still US based customer service and you can usually get someone on the phone without having to wait 3 hours.
I'm chuckling at the bolded part a bit because I'm in the midst of a dispute with Chase right now. The grass is always greener I guess.

When I filled up my rental car on a Mexican vacation, I handed the attendant* my Chase Amazon card, and he brought me a receipt showing about $30 (in pesos obviously). I signed it and went on my way. Later that day, I got an email that my card had been charged $80 for the gas. I thought maybe that was just the pre-authorized amount, but I did stick my copy of the gas receipt in my bag just in case. Once I got home and logged into the Chase account, I saw that the $80 charge was the final amount, so I disputed it.

The dispute was easy to do online. I selected the charge, hit dispute this, then got the following two drop-downs: Reason for the dispute: Wrong amount charged; How much are you disputing: $50. Those were the only two options on the dispute window - no free-form comments box or any way to upload documentation. Chase reversed the disputed amount immediately though, so all seemed good.

Fast-forward 45 days and I get a 'letter' from Chase (online) that says they've resolved the dispute in favor of the merchant and they recharged my card the disputed amount. The letter shows a receipt from the merchant for $80 with a forged signature**. What made me angry with the whole affair is that Chase closed their 'investigation' without ever asking me for my receipt or letting me challenge the merchant's fraudulent receipt. They also had the nerve to list one of the reasons for denying my dispute as "You didn't provide evidence for the disputed amount." You don't say!

After I got the letter, I couldn't do anything else online. The only option was to call their 888 customer service number. I admit that his name was Bill or something, so he did seem to be in the US, but he was completely worthless. He told me he couldn't do anything, and that I'd have *mail* a letter to the disputes department to reopen the case. Can't be done online, can't be emailed. I did, after about 5 minutes of badgering him, pull a fax number out. Fax or snail mail? Seriously? I can't think of anything that says "We want you to go away and leave us alone!" more than only having those options for replying. And why waste my time giving me the 888 number if I'm just going to be given the fax/mailing address? Why not put those on the letter and save me the 30 minutes I spent calling? He also let me know that I would have to pay the charge on my next billing cycle or I will be charged interest and possibly fees. "Can't you mark it disputed again?" "No." I honestly don't understand why this CS department even exists if they don't have the power to do anything.

I did go ahead and write up a letter, attach my receipt, and made it clear that the receipt provided by the merchant is fraudulent. I faxed it in, although I wouldn't be surprised if their fax machine feeds directly into the shredder. Or didn't have paper. Or just produced a black streaky mess that can't be read. There's a reason most people don't use them anymore!

BTW, I looked up the particular gas station on Google and it had 1.2 stars - almost all of the reviewers stated they got scammed at this location, so I'm surely not the first person to dispute charges there. Maybe Chase eventually makes this right, but it upsets me that they basically took the word of some criminals over me. Big picture, $50 won't make a big difference in my life, but I just don't want it going to criminals who scam tourists. One thing that this thread shows me is that, even if I decided to go scorched earth and cancel all my Chase cards, whatever card I switched to would probably be just as bad, if not worse, when it comes to customer service.

*All gas stations in Mexico are full-service only
**Which begs the question: Why do we even use the signature if they don't do even the most cursory comparison to signatures on file. The attendant or whoever forged it even signed it last name, first name so even the starting letter is wrong.
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by galawdawg »

Grogs wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:55 am ...After I got the letter, I couldn't do anything else online. The only option was to call their 888 customer service number. I admit that his name was Bill or something, so he did seem to be in the US, but he was completely worthless. He told me he couldn't do anything, and that I'd have *mail* a letter to the disputes department to reopen the case. Can't be done online, can't be emailed. I did, after about 5 minutes of badgering him, pull a fax number out. Fax or snail mail? Seriously? I can't think of anything that says "We want you to go away and leave us alone!" more than only having those options for replying. And why waste my time giving me the 888 number if I'm just going to be given the fax/mailing address? Why not put those on the letter and save me the 30 minutes I spent calling? He also let me know that I would have to pay the charge on my next billing cycle or I will be charged interest and possibly fees. "Can't you mark it disputed again?" "No." I honestly don't understand why this CS department even exists if they don't have the power to do anything.

I did go ahead and write up a letter, attach my receipt, and made it clear that the receipt provided by the merchant is fraudulent. I faxed it in, although I wouldn't be surprised if their fax machine feeds directly into the shredder. Or didn't have paper. Or just produced a black streaky mess that can't be read. There's a reason most people don't use them anymore!
Bogleheads should be aware that writing a letter and sending by mail to the billing error address provided by the credit card issuer in their disclosures is the ONLY way to protect your rights under the Fair Credit Billing Act. Otherwise, the credit card issuer is not required to investigate your dispute or otherwise act upon it, may charge you interest and late fees if you fail to pay the amount you believe in error and may report any deficiency to a credit reporting agency.

Disputing online, by phone or by fax is simply insufficient to invoke the protections provided by law.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... rd-charges
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1666

If one chooses to submit a dispute only online, by phone or by fax and chooses not to mail a letter setting forth the error as outlined in the linked materials above, they do so at their own peril. If you want your rights protected, mail that letter. :beer
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Re: Citibank credit card - can you win a dispute?

Post by tev9876 »

I'm currently in round three with Avis on a bogus rental car charge and seem to be winning. I had a non prepaid reservation through Costco who does not require a credit card to book. Per Costco there is no charge for no-shows. I forgot to cancel the reservation when I cancelled the rest of my trip. When my next bill arrived there was a $300+ charge from Avis. Since I am Avis Preferred and put my wizard number on the reservation, it linked to my Citi Costco Visa that is in my profile which explains how they charged me. Logging into my Avis account I found a receipt that showed that a Toyota was picked up, driven 180+ miles and returned at the exact minute of the end of the reservation with a full tank of gas. Oddly enough I was 2000 miles away the entire time.

Round 1 - I initially disputed with Citi as this appears to be a scam and I didn't want the Avis location to be able to fix it and keep doing it to others. I also didn't feel like spending hours trying to get through to their desk. Citi's online dispute is all drop down driven and there is no way to enter comments, so I went with "attempted to cancel" reservation as the best fit. They immediately removed the charge.

Round 2 - Avis responded that the charge was valid and presented the receipt I noted above, noting as Avis Preferred I don't have to sign anything. Citi forwarded their response, reinstated the charge, and gave me instruction on how to continue the dispute.

Round 3 - I responded (to the email address as directed by Citi - fax was also an option) with the true story (forgot to cancel, no penalty for Costco reservation) along with my cancellation notices for the flight and hotels. I even went as far as pulling screen captures from my Ring camera showing me coming and going from my house on the dates in question. I backed that up with Google street view images so that they could independently verify the location being my house 2000 miles away along with my DL and passport photos to prove (within reason) the person was me. I also challenged that Avis need to provide security video or a scan/copy of my drivers license (which they always take) to prove I really picked up the car.

Round 4 - Citi removed the charge again and bounced it back to Avis. I have not heard back after about 10 days.
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