Outdoor Holiday Lights

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chris319
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Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

I'm thinking of putting up outdoor holiday lights for the first time next year.

My concern is, if I have a 120-volt string of lights outdoors, what happens when it rains?

I understand the lights themselves should be UL listed and weatherproof and be plugged into a GFCI outlet which I would need to install.

A big concern is the AC connections. The light string would need to be plugged into an extension cord. In addition, most light strings have a female two-blade AC connector at one end so that light strings can be daisy-chained. My question is how to make all this weatherproof. I'd be worried about having 120 VAC electrical connections out in the rain. The location is southern California so snow is not really much of a concern. One idea is to clip off the female AC connector and put wire nuts on the wires as I do not need to daisy-chair another string.

One idea is to use an LED rope light. I only need about 13 feet of length and most rope lights I've seen are much longer.

How do Bogleheads deal with this? Do people just put up lights and not worry about these things?

Safety first! Thank you.
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livesoft
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by livesoft »

chris319 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:59 pmHow do Bogleheads deal with this? Do people just put up lights and not worry about these things?
Yes. Also I don't touch the string of lights whether raining or not when they are powered up.
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windaar
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by windaar »

I've put lights and deer out for years, plugged into an exterior GFCI recepticle, which I would recommend as imperative.
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mortfree
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by mortfree »

Just be on the lookout if the outdoor circuit gets tripped and shuts off.

For me, when that happens it means my garage fridge turns off with the gfci.
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walkabout
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by walkabout »

I live in area that gets some rain during Christmas light season (Thanksgiving to New Year’s) and have put up lights for many years. This is what I do (as relates to the concerns expressed in your post).

1. Unused female ends of light strings: Nothing. I’m not aware that I’ve ever had a problem with water getting in and causing a problem. If you wanted to do something, coveting the openings with electrical tape is probably sufficient.
2. Connections between strings: Nothing.
3. Connection to extension cord: I try to make these connections such that I can subsequently cover with a plastic bag then attach to a fixed object (stake in ground, porch railing, etc). Secure the bag with zip ties and keep the (former) opening pointed down.
4. Always plug into GFCI-protected outlet with in-use cover.
5. Sometimes the GFCI will trip. You can usually reset it within a few hours (or the next day).
HomeStretch
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by HomeStretch »

I use the two-prong inserts used to childproof electrical outlets on the unused female ends of outdoor light strands to keep moisture out.
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chris319
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

I found this on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009RX5H6S/?c ... _lig_dp_it

One reviewer noted that rain water collects in the recessed top of the box, so maybe using it upside-down is the key.

I'm interested in something more substantial than plastic bags, tie wraps and electrical tape.

Our condominium building was built in 1970 before GFCI outlets existed. I have an AC outlet on the balcony which would need to be replaced with a GFCI outlet.
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dukeblue219
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by dukeblue219 »

For what it's worth there are 50 million houses with outdoors lights every year and I've never heard of anyone starting a fire when it rained or getting shocked.

A GFCI outdoor outlet is a good start though,and an older house might not have them.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by quantAndHold »

Ours are plugged into a GFCI receptacle, with extension cords, in the pouring rain right now. I figure if water gets in anywhere, the gfci will do its job. If they go out, I'll reset the GFCI when it stops raining.
mw1739
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by mw1739 »

chris319 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:46 pm I found this on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009RX5H6S/?c ... _lig_dp_it

One reviewer noted that rain water collects in the recessed top of the box, so maybe using it upside-down is the key.

I'm interested in something more substantial than plastic bags, tie wraps and electrical tape.

Our condominium building was built in 1970 before GFCI outlets existed. I have an AC outlet on the balcony which would need to be replaced with a GFCI outlet.
I cut holes in cheap Tupperware from the dollar store. Similar to this product for about 1/30th of the price. Works great.
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chris319
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

I use the two-prong inserts used to childproof electrical outlets on the unused female ends of outdoor light strands to keep moisture out.
That's a good idea.
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Vtsax100
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by Vtsax100 »

Put a ring of silicone around every plug before you mate them. Bam! Waterproofed. And still easy to pull apart when you are ready to take them down.
bradinsky
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by bradinsky »

Use electrical tape at the connection. Do yourself a favor & don’t mess around cutting it & making the connection with wire nuts. If anything, that makes it more susceptible to moisture issues. With the GFIC, you’ll be fine.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by quantAndHold »

chris319 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:46 pm I found this on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009RX5H6S/?c ... _lig_dp_it

One reviewer noted that rain water collects in the recessed top of the box, so maybe using it upside-down is the key.

I'm interested in something more substantial than plastic bags, tie wraps and electrical tape.

Our condominium building was built in 1970 before GFCI outlets existed. I have an AC outlet on the balcony which would need to be replaced with a GFCI outlet.
Replacing that outlet with a GFCI one is probably cheaper than a bunch of $20 plastic boxes.
fposte
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by fposte »

I use solar-powered lights. I have no convenient outlet and low ambition, and I’ve been pretty happy with them.
howard71
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by howard71 »

Walking around my neighborhood yesterday I observed that not more than one in five residents in our community put up outdoor lights. Same was true last year but before the pandemic I'd estimate the number to be at least half, probably more.
squirm
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by squirm »

the gfci is to protect you. just don't install it in the rain if it's not connected to one.
Oldaroo3
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by Oldaroo3 »

Two suggestions: Don't go to bed with the lights still on and don't go out for the night with the lights still on.
Everything else I do wrong. The local fire marshal would probably have a heart attack if he/she saw my set-up.
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chris319
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

quantAndHold wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:03 pm Replacing that outlet with a GFCI one is probably cheaper than a bunch of $20 plastic boxes.
They fulfill two different functions. The box is passive and will shroud the plug and socket where the lights plug into the extension cord and keep the rain off. The GFCI outlet will cut off power if a fault is detected.

I want the best solution, not necessarily the cheapest, especially since we're talking less than $50 for all the components.
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dukeblue219
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by dukeblue219 »

howard71 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:09 pm Walking around my neighborhood yesterday I observed that not more than one in five residents in our community put up outdoor lights. Same was true last year but before the pandemic I'd estimate the number to be at least half, probably more.
That's really odd. Around here there are FAR more lights than ever before. In some neighborhoods a solid 50% of the houses have lights, and many with extensive displays of inflatables and other decorations. Last year we assumed it was people spendkng more time at home and trying to be cheerful. I wonder why people in your community have chosen not to display their lights this year.
Normchad
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by Normchad »

I don’t think this is really an issue. But, if you do somehow make all the connections water- tight, remember each individual light is it’s own connection, and that’s not watertight.

But seriously, it’s on a GFCI. And each strand has its own individual fuses. Etc. etc etc. and you are using UL approved, OUTDOOR lights. They are meant to be used this way…..

I clearly don’t worry about this. I drive an EV, and I plug that in in the rain, snow, etc.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by quantAndHold »

chris319 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:22 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:03 pm Replacing that outlet with a GFCI one is probably cheaper than a bunch of $20 plastic boxes.
They fulfill two different functions. The box is passive and will shroud the plug and socket where the lights plug into the extension cord and keep the rain off. The GFCI outlet will cut off power if a fault is detected.

I want the best solution, not necessarily the cheapest, especially since we're talking less than $50 for all the components.
The safe solution is GFCI. That’s the starting point. If you want to use plastic boxes in addition to a GFCI outlet, be my guest. But like I said earlier in the thread, my lights have been on all day today in the pouring rain with no issue.
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beernutz
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by beernutz »

howard71 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:09 pm Walking around my neighborhood yesterday I observed that not more than one in five residents in our community put up outdoor lights. Same was true last year but before the pandemic I'd estimate the number to be at least half, probably more.
That could be a regional observation as in my neighborhood of 142 houses well over half have lights up and that ratio hasn't changed much in years despite a decent amount of neighbor turnover.

As to the OPs question I have installed at least a dozen outlets in the last year and 100% of them were GFCI. I won't use anything else.
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chris319
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

Financial decisions based on emotion often turn out to be bad decisions.
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cashboy
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by cashboy »

if the lights and extension cords are rated for 'outdoor use' and are plugged into GFCI one is good to go. nothing else special is required. I have run outdoor rated lights and extension cords in the heaviest of rain and snow for years without a problem.
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chris319
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

Those plug-and-socket protectors are $16.60 for a pack of four. That's chump change. I'm not going to cheap out on this project just to save $16.60.
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chris319
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

An electrician came to my house and not only did he install a gfi outlet, he also installed a special cover for my outdoor outlet which consists of a cube-shaped clear plastic cover with a notch on the bottom which acts as a cable exit. This is supposed to make the outlet weatherproof.

He also installed special dimmers for my relatively new LED lights. When I bought them I made sure the LED lights themselves were dimmable, but I didn't know they also required a special type of dimmer.

Total cost of this project: $850, but hey, I'm rich — I'm a Boglehead!
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BobStrauss
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by BobStrauss »

Sounds like an in-use cover and simply an LED compatible dimmer, so perhaps around $80 worth of parts. But making sure you have peace of mind is worth much more than that - I get it.
michaelingp
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by michaelingp »

My wife wrapped Saran wrap around each connection this year (we don't have a lot of lights) and they were bone dry when I took them down. My sister in law uses upside-down flower pots over the connections with a brick or something to keep the connection off the ground. (We do the same for relatively permanent fixtures like pond pumps.) But as others have pointed out, there are millions of homes that just leave the plugs out in the rain. Fresh water (not salt) is not particularly conductive, plus most people only turn on the lights in the evening.

If you have any outdoor outlets that are not GFCI, replace them ASAP regardless of whether you have outdoor lights or not. You can get a $12 GFCI outlet tester at the hardware store if you're not sure if the outlet is GFCI or not (it could have a GFCI breaker).
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chris319
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by chris319 »

I'm in a 53-unit condominium building. I have to think about potential liability. If there were a mishap, such as a fire, and it was determined to be caused by my cheap-*ss jerry-rigged wiring job, such as wrapping a connection in Saran wrap, I could be held liable for the mishap. That's why we have electrical codes.

If you live in a single-family dwelling that you own and you burn down the house, who's going to sue you?

You can put a penny in a fuse holder and it will work, but what are you going to tell the insurance adjuster when he examines the fire that burnt down your house?
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Nver2Late
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Re: Outdoor Holiday Lights

Post by Nver2Late »

chris319 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:59 pm
My concern is, if I have a 120-volt string of lights outdoors, what happens when it rains?
We normally do not have to worry about rain here. However, we just had a warm front high winds & rain. The circuit breaker (GFCI) was tripped.
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