laser printer with low power-on surge

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Nyc10036
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laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Nyc10036 »

I have an older Brother HL-2170W laser printer that I bought refurbished from Staples.
Even when I first got it, the lights in the room would briefly flicker when I first turn on the printer.
I have had an electrician replace the Siemens QAF with a QAF2 arc fault circuit breaker.
This is the new version. You can't even buy the old version circuit breaker anymore.
But I am getting the arc fault occuring when I turn on the printer.
It did not happen this morning, but it happened this evening.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by bob60014 »

Have you considered that the printer is the issue? What occurs when something else is used on that circuit?
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Teague »

Unfortunate. I have a similar Brother with a similar surge, but older breakers that are not sensitive to this issue.

The quickest remedy would be to disable the "deep sleep" power saver mode on your printer. Beyond that my skills lie more toward low voltage DC rather than residential AC, so I will leave the better solutions to others.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by mkc »

Are the lights and outlet on the same circuit? They are normally* separate circuits; in a given room, lights are on a 15 amp and outlets on a separate 20 amp one.

Since you mention an arc fault breaker, is this in a bedroom?


*older homes do not necessarily follow this
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by BIGal »

I have a Brother HL 2270DW laser printer that I have had for years. I seldom turn it off unless we are going to be away for an extended period. I just turned mine off and on to see if there was any interruption on the circuit and there was not. I can say that when I do send a print that I can notice a blip on my desk lamp. I haven't considered this to be an issue and have not looked into the circuit or the breaker. If I were you I think I would take it back where you bought it and ask them to connect and power on and see if it does the same there. It sounds like it may be an issue with the printer and not your electric circuit/breaker. Good luck.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by kilowattcorn »

My Brother 2270 (purchased new) similarly causes my lights to dim briefly when starting a print job. It has done this for years and I chose not to fuss over it.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Teague »

FWIW, I once looked into this type of printer and the surge described. Apparently it is considered normal, as when it awakens from deep sleep it needs a lot of current to charge a gizmo to heat some thingy thus enabling it to print.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Gryphon »

A little bit of google searching suggests that laser printers tripping an AFCI breaker is a common problem, especially with older laser printers that were designed before AFCI breakers became more commonplace. There are a few Brother models that have a firmware fix to alleviate the issue, but your model isn't one of them.

Some folks apparently replace the AFCI breaker with a regular breaker but I don't recommend that. There don't seem to be any good solutions other than to roll the dice on a new printer.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Teague »

For the EE types out there: Would (theoretically) adding an appropriate capacitor inside the printer help things (or maybe make it worse?)
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by quantAndHold »

There is a firmware update for that printer dated 2/2019. Have you installed it?
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Gryphon »

Teague wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:24 pm For the EE types out there: Would (theoretically) adding an appropriate capacitor inside the printer help things (or maybe make it worse?)
Hypothetically, yes, if you could find the circuit that was drawing the extra power on wake-up you could add a capacitor to supply the extra charge needed. But given the amount of power being drawn (enough to flicker the lights even when the AFCI doesn't trip) it might wind up being a rather large capacitor that wouldn't fit inside the available space in the printer.

Actually determining the correct capacitor size is not trivial either, other than using trial & error. I remember a lab assignment in college where we had to solve this problem for a circuit and it involved measuring the current flow over time (with time in that case being in the sub-millisecond range) to determine how much electrical charge the capacitor had to store. Got an oscilloscope with a current probe handy?
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by RetiredAL »

Teague wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:24 pm For the EE types out there: Would (theoretically) adding an appropriate capacitor inside the printer help things (or maybe make it worse?)
I doubt a capacitor would help. A laser printer has a hot element fuser that has to heat up. During the fuzer heat-up, it draws a lot of power for a short period of time, thus a light flicker is a potential.

As for an Arc Fault CB tripping, the fuser system will have some kind of thermostatic control. If it's a bi-metal thermostat, or a cheap SCR switch, an Arc Fault CB would tend to be unhappy. A zero crossing electronic switch controller should co-exist well. If the arc noise is from inside the printer, a good power filter may help. A surge suppressor in itself is not a filter. A decent power filter will be expensive.

Then again, the high current at the fuser heat-up may be causing a poor house wiring connection to arc during the brief higher current draw, which the Arc Fault CB is correctly detecting and performing its safety action.
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new is better

Post by Bogle7 »

Just buy a new Brother printer.
The magic letters are CDW as the suffix.
My Brother HL-3170CDW does not cause the lights to flicker.
This newer model https://www.brother-usa.com/products/hll3230cdw is $250.
Last edited by Bogle7 on Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new is better

Post by anoop »

Bogle7 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:04 pm Just buy a new Brother printer.
The magic letters are CDW as the suffix.
What does the C stand for?
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by twh »

I suspect it is LED lights in the room that are flickering. I have a 1999 HP Laserjet and it has been on almost continously since 1999. In the house I am in now, sometimes the lights will dance a bit when I first print a page. I actually think this is when the printer wakes up when I go to first print something after the printer has been asleep. I doubt there is anything wrong with the printer. If it really bothers you, perhaps try a surge protector that has a built in EMI filter.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Gryphon »

anoop wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:12 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:04 pm Just buy a new Brother printer.
The magic letters are CDW as the suffix.
What does the C stand for?
C = Color
D = Duplex
W = WiFi

Which are all nice things to have in a printer but none of them help with flickering lights or tripped circuit breakers. :confused
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Bogle7 »

Gryphon wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:31 pmthings to have in a printer but none of them help with flickering lights or tripped circuit breakers.
You missed the important word in my recommendation: new
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by telemark »

If you want to google it, the problem is called "power sag": for the briefest of instants the printer draws a lot of current, not long enough for the wiring to heat up or even to register on most power meters, but possibly long enough to look like an arc fault to your circuit breaker. I have a 2270DW and have not noticed this problem, but in the user guide (PDF), on page 130, it lists the instantaneous peak power consumption at "Approx. 1,056 W". Which is not actually that bad, most space heaters pull more than that. I can't find an equivalent figure for the HL-2170W, so I don't know if it's better or worse.

I'm imagining some sort of current limiter that would sit between the outlet and the printer and introduce a little resistance when it's needed, but a quick search doesn't show any consumer products like that so it's probably harder than it sounds.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by FreeAtLast »

BIGal wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:48 pm I have a Brother HL 2270DW laser printer that I have had for years. I seldom turn it off unless we are going to be away for an extended period. I just turned mine off and on to see if there was any interruption on the circuit and there was not. I can say that when I do send a print that I can notice a blip on my desk lamp. I haven't considered this to be an issue and have not looked into the circuit or the breaker. If I were you I think I would take it back where you bought it and ask them to connect and power on and see if it does the same there. It sounds like it may be an issue with the printer and not your electric circuit/breaker. Good luck.
I have the exact same printer as BIGal.....except that I turn it on and off on a regular basis....but I have never had the problem described by the OP.....I know for a fact that my building's electrical system has no AFCIs.....this is a fascinating thread concerning electrical safety.....great post, RetiredAL.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by toast0 »

RetiredAL wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:50 pm I doubt a capacitor would help. A laser printer has a hot element fuser that has to heat up. During the fuzer heat-up, it draws a lot of power for a short period of time, thus a light flicker is a potential.
A capacitor might work, they are useful to reduce inrush current for motors in heat pump applications, but I think a fuser is more of a resistive element than an inductive element like a motor. Probably a NTC thermistor is more appropriate, those are higher resistance at lower temperatures which would allow for a more gradual current ramp-up and often aren't very large. But fiddling inside a laser printer is not really advisable.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by shess »

Teague wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:24 pm For the EE types out there: Would (theoretically) adding an appropriate capacitor inside the printer help things (or maybe make it worse?)
The problem is that the printer says "Give me ALL the electricity!", and the system tries to accommodate it. A capacitor could plausibly allow the printer to capture energy for a bit prior to dumping it all into heating the heated components - but it would be easier to just have something to limit the current directly, with the result again being that it would take longer for things to come up to temperature. Which, IMHO, is fine for a consumer device, but the manufacturers likely aren't willing to spend extra components on consumers...

I'd guess any sort of external unit to accomplish something like this would probably cost more than the printer itself, and would probably be hard to dial in to allow enough current. Probably easier to just get a printer using different technology, like an inkjet (yes, that has its own problems).

The first thing we did when we moved into our house 15 years back was have an electrician disconnect the electric baseboard heater in my office and give me that circuit. My printer doesn't dim the lights :-).
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by linuxizer »

What about putting it on an online UPS? That way the power comes from the UPS battery when it starts up….
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by jebmke »

linuxizer wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:13 am What about putting it on an online UPS? That way the power comes from the UPS battery when it starts up….
Not sure if that inrush current would trip the UPS. The best solution is to run a dedicated 20 amp circuit; that’s what I did. One for the printer (and a couple of low draw items) and one dedicated circuit for computer and network gear. No more problems after that.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by linuxizer »

Sure, but a new 20A circuit is a pain and non-portable and a UPS is cheap and easy. I’ve plugged laser printers into cheapie UPS’s before and it seemed to work OK, but better would be a beefy double conversion (get a refurb with new batteries bc the industrial ones are much better devices).
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by jebmke »

linuxizer wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:45 am Sure, but a new 20A circuit is a pain and non-portable and a UPS is cheap and easy. I’ve plugged laser printers into cheapie UPS’s before and it seemed to work OK, but better would be a beefy double conversion (get a refurb with new batteries bc the industrial ones are much better devices).
Some of them can be adjusted as well. I have one that I can adjust the sensitivity of. I’ve never needed to do that.

For a portable solution, a small HP like the 102 might have lower current draw than the old clunky brother. I have one of those 2170s. Still a serviceable machine but old, heavy and slow.

Running a circuit can be a PITA. I had mine put in when we moved here; in fact I had them replace a bunch of 15 amp circuits that got put in by previous (cheapskate) owner in a remodel.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by lazydavid »

linuxizer wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:13 am What about putting it on an online UPS? That way the power comes from the UPS battery when it starts up….
Every UPS manual I've ever seen explicitly states to NOT attach a laser printer to the battery-backed outlets (surge-protected only outlets are fine). It might work if you have a REALLY big one like a 3000VA rack-mount, but now you're talking a UPS that costs 6-10x what the printer does. A "normal" UPS like any of us would have at our homes would likely trip the overcurrent protection and shut off completely.

I have a Dell laser which does the same thing as OPs. When it wakes from sleep, the lights dim and my UPS (opposite side of the room, but likely same circuit) cuts over to battery for a second. I've been dealing with it for 6 years, and will continue to do so. The batteries in this UPS need to be replaced about every 3 years just like every other UPS in the house, so I don't think it really hurts anything.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by BH_RedRan »

Adding a capacitor may not be feasible due to the long duration of the voltage dip and some technical issues with the internal power supply. It is likely at least a few AC cycles in duration which can be a lot of energy to have to replace. Another approach would be to limit the current surge itself by adding an inductor to the input cord of the printer. Adding an inductor with a large enough value and proper voltage and current ratings would limit the abruptness of the change in current which would make the light flickering less apparent to the eye and likely less visible as a (false) arc-fault or ground fault to the AFCI breaker.

The trick is to make sure there is sufficient voltage left at the printer side of the inductor for proper operation at its peak load. (And a couple of other tricks too.) Unless you have an engineer's junk box of inductors and the expertise, I would recommend a more modern printer if you need one.

In my personal case, I had larger gauge wires run to our home office that were protected by a NON-GFI, NON-AFCI breaker. It was allowed by code at the time. At the time we had a large laser printer and the flicker was annoying. Most everything is on a large UPS too, including one printer.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by munemaker »

I have a Brother HL-52 that I bought in 2006. It it is used almost daily. Yes, the house lights flicker when the printer is cold. No big deal. Never gave it a second thought.


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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by random_walker_77 »

Some (many?) laser printers draw a crazy amount of current for a brief period of time. Probably to save on the cost of current-limiting circuitry. There's another thread on this. I linked a report where someone put an oscilloscope on an older brother laser printer and measured a short surge in excess of 40A. The draw is for a short enough time that circuit breakers/fuses don't trip:
viewtopic.php?p=5461480#p5461480

I don't know how you'd go about finding printers with a known low power-on surge.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by RetiredAL »

linuxizer wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:45 am Sure, but a new 20A circuit is a pain and non-portable and a UPS is cheap and easy. I’ve plugged laser printers into cheapie UPS’s before and it seemed to work OK, but better would be a beefy double conversion (get a refurb with new batteries bc the industrial ones are much better devices).
Home style UPS systems are standby systems, not true UPS's. When the line voltage goes away, of drops too far - usually around 105v or less, the battery powered inverters start and a relay switches the output over to the inverter. This action takes several 60 cycles to happen.

In a true UPS system, like used in a data room, the inverter is supplying the output power at all times and the inverters get their power either from the AC mains or batteries, thus the 60 cycle output never sees a lost cycle when the AC main go away. These systems are much more expensive.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by quantAndHold »

Well, here’s a guy who had the exact same problem a couple of years ago. The further I read in this thread, the more I wanted to bake cookies and send them to our moderators.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Nyc10036 »

I am torn between
1) buying a brand new laser printer and hoping that it has a lower power-on surge than this 10-year old refurbished Brother
or
2) buy a UPS for the desktop PC so that this sudden loss of power does not damage the SSD
and make the trek to the garage to reset the circuit breaker



.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by quantAndHold »

Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:19 pm I am torn between
1) buying a brand new laser printer and hoping that it has a lower power-on surge than this 10-year old refurbished Brother
or
2) buy a UPS for the desktop PC so that this sudden loss of power does not damage the SSD
and make the trek to the garage to reset the circuit breaker
Do you need a commercial printer, or would a consumer grade laser printer work for you. I like the Brother HL-L2395DW, and it's like $150. I don't have the problem you're having, but I also don't have the fancy breakers, either.

My thought would be to get it from someplace you can return it to if it doesn't solve the problem.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by twh »

Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:19 pm I am torn between
1) buying a brand new laser printer and hoping that it has a lower power-on surge than this 10-year old refurbished Brother
or
2) buy a UPS for the desktop PC so that this sudden loss of power does not damage the SSD
and make the trek to the garage to reset the circuit breaker
If you leave the printer on all the time does it still happen? If not, just leave it on -- it enters a power saving mode anyway. My HP LaserJet has been on almost continuously since 1999.

Do you have any CFL (compact fluorescent lights) on that same circuit? If so, get rid of them, it may be contributing to the AFCI breaker tripping.

Do you have any no-name LED bulbs on that same circuit? If so, get rid of them, it may be contributing to the AFCI breaker tripping.

If you own the house, you can just put in a non-AFCI breaker and be done with it.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by quantAndHold »

twh wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:30 pm If you own the house, you can just put in a non-AFCI breaker and be done with it.
Nyc10036 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:53 pm You can't even buy the old version circuit breaker anymore.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by jebmke »

quantAndHold wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:39 pm
twh wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:30 pm If you own the house, you can just put in a non-AFCI breaker and be done with it.
Nyc10036 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:53 pm You can't even buy the old version circuit breaker anymore.
I suppose one could swap an existing old breaker and backfill with new one. I’d buy a new printer first.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by twh »

quantAndHold wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:39 pm
twh wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:30 pm If you own the house, you can just put in a non-AFCI breaker and be done with it.
Nyc10036 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:53 pm You can't even buy the old version circuit breaker anymore.
What the OP meant is you can't buy the old version of the AFCI breaker anymore - they only sell the V2 of the AFCI breaker. For sure you can get a non-AFCI breaker.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by TimeRunner »

My N=1: I have a Brother MFC L2750DW plugged into a one-outlet surge protector directly into the wall outlet. On the same circuit I have an APC Back-UPS ES 750 that powers a small desktop and two-bay Synology NAS. The NAS communicates with the UPS and sends an email when the NAS goes on/off battery power. Most of the time when the Brother MFC has been sleeping and a print job is sent to it (waking it up), it triggers an on-UPS email followed almost immediately by a power restored email. So, the printer's instantaneous power draw is enough to trigger the UPS for a few seconds. I can live with that.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by telemark »

quantAndHold wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:43 pm Well, here’s a guy who had the exact same problem a couple of years ago. The further I read in this thread, the more I wanted to bake cookies and send them to our moderators.
Interesting thread, with some good information among the bickering. My takeaway is that the problem is less the absolute current draw than the suddenness of it: a microwave or space heater may draw more current, but they ramp up slowly enough that the system can adjust to it. That ability to adjust will depend on your local power company and on the wiring in and out of your building, so the experience of others isn't necessarily useful.
Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:19 pm I am torn between
1) buying a brand new laser printer and hoping that it has a lower power-on surge than this 10-year old refurbished Brother
or
2) buy a UPS for the desktop PC so that this sudden loss of power does not damage the SSD
and make the trek to the garage to reset the circuit breaker.
A UPS for the desktop PC is an excellent idea in any case. I have a separate UPS for each of my desktops.

A new laser printer might solve the problem. This is clearly an issue that manufacturers don't like to talk about, so that information is going to be hard to find. Before trying anything else, I would experiment with plugging the printer into different outlets.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Nyc10036 »

twh wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:30 pm If you leave the printer on all the time does it still happen?
I will try this. I could swear that it sometimes happens when it wakes up from sleep but I can't be certain.
twh wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:30 pm Do you have any CFL (compact fluorescent lights) on that same circuit? If so, get rid of them, it may be contributing to the AFCI breaker tripping.

Do you have any no-name LED bulbs on that same circuit? If so, get rid of them, it may be contributing to the AFCI breaker tripping.
When the circuit breaker tripped this morning, no lights were on in the room.
twh wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:30 pm If you own the house, you can just put in a non-AFCI breaker and be done with it.
If I have a fire, and I have that non-AFCI breaker I could be in trouble with my insurance company since I did something that is non-Code.

telemark wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:05 pm A UPS for the desktop PC is an excellent idea in any case. I have a separate UPS for each of my desktops.

A new laser printer might solve the problem. This is clearly an issue that manufacturers don't like to talk about, so that information is going to be hard to find. Before trying anything else, I would experiment with plugging the printer into different outlets.
I have this printer connected to the router next to my PC via Ethernet cable, so different outlets is not an option since all the outlets in this bedroom used as a computer room are on the same circuit breaker. Even some of the outlets in another bedroom is on the same circuit breaker.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by RetiredAL »

Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:59 pm
Nyc,

Do not underestimate the potential that you really do have a poor splice somewhere in the house wiring and the AFCI is detecting it and doing what it's designed to do. This is what AFCI's are designed to detect before enough heat is created to start a fire.

A simple test (not foolproof): Plug an electric heater into that outlet and cycle it on/off numerous times. If you see an AFCI trip, that points towards a wiring issue. If the heater does not cause any trips, that points towards something with the printer that the AFCI does not like.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Nyc10036 »

RetiredAL wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:31 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:59 pm
Nyc,

Do not underestimate the potential that you really do have a poor splice somewhere in the house wiring and the AFCI is detecting it and doing what it's designed to do. This is what AFCI's are designed to detect before enough heat is created to start a fire.

A simple test (not foolproof): Plug an electric heater into that outlet and cycle it on/off numerous times. If you see an AFCI trip, that points towards a wiring issue. If the heater does not cause any trips, that points towards something with the printer that the AFCI does not like.
When the electrician was here to replace the v1 with v2, he asked me to turn on the heater to its highest setting in the same circuit.
The desktop PC and monitor and cable modem and router were all on at the time.
He said that the current was very close to 15A. I forgot what he said.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by RetiredAL »

Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:08 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:31 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:59 pm
Nyc,

Do not underestimate the potential that you really do have a poor splice somewhere in the house wiring and the AFCI is detecting it and doing what it's designed to do. This is what AFCI's are designed to detect before enough heat is created to start a fire.

A simple test (not foolproof): Plug an electric heater into that outlet and cycle it on/off numerous times. If you see an AFCI trip, that points towards a wiring issue. If the heater does not cause any trips, that points towards something with the printer that the AFCI does not like.
When the electrician was here to replace the v1 with v2, he asked me to turn on the heater to its highest setting in the same circuit.
The desktop PC and monitor and cable modem and router were all on at the time.
He said that the current was very close to 15A. I forgot what he said.
Was that heater load test with the new AFCI breaker in place? On the same outlet? If not, test it again. Its a DIY test.

A 15A draw would be about right. That's 1800 watts, and the heater would likely be 1500-1600 of that. A 20a circuit can handle that load + a little more.
squirm
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by squirm »

Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:19 pm I am torn between
1) buying a brand new laser printer and hoping that it has a lower power-on surge than this 10-year old refurbished Brother
or
2) buy a UPS for the desktop PC so that this sudden loss of power does not damage the SSD
and make the trek to the garage to reset the circuit breaker



.
Just buy a new printer, bring it home. If it has an issue take it back and try another one. I don't see what the difficulty is in that. This whole thread is whacky.
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Bogle7
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by Bogle7 »

squirm wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:59 pmJust buy a new printer, bring it home. If it has an issue take it back and try another one. I don't see what the difficulty is in that. This whole thread is whacky.
+1
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egrets
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by egrets »

I'll remember this thread when people sneer at me for liking ink jet printers. Also, I turn off my printers when I won't be using them for awhile, what a concept.
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telemark
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by telemark »

Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:59 pm
telemark wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:05 pm A UPS for the desktop PC is an excellent idea in any case. I have a separate UPS for each of my desktops.

A new laser printer might solve the problem. This is clearly an issue that manufacturers don't like to talk about, so that information is going to be hard to find. Before trying anything else, I would experiment with plugging the printer into different outlets.
I have this printer connected to the router next to my PC via Ethernet cable, so different outlets is not an option since all the outlets in this bedroom used as a computer room are on the same circuit breaker. Even some of the outlets in another bedroom is on the same circuit breaker.
This isn't intended to solve the problem but to gather more information, always useful when dealing with a conundrum. You don't need to print anything, just plug it in, turn it on, and see if any lights flicker or breakers trip. If they don't, the problem is in the one circuit. If they do, it's general to the property.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by twh »

The next time it trips, have a look at the LEDs on the circuit breaker using the troubleshooting card that comes up with this:
Google siemens afci troubeshooting
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telemark
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by telemark »

Bogle7 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:19 pm
squirm wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:59 pmJust buy a new printer, bring it home. If it has an issue take it back and try another one. I don't see what the difficulty is in that. This whole thread is whacky.
+1
Once you start looking, it turns out there are a number of threads on this subject in various places around the web. Some people with newer printers have never seen the problem, and some people with older printers have also never seen it, and many people have seen the problem but ignore it: but in no thread, that I can find, does anyone ever say "I had this problem and fixed it by buying a new printer." The basic technology of laser printers hasn't changed much in the last 20 years. A newer model will probably have wifi and support Google Cloud Print and make it more difficult to use off-brand toner cartridges, but it will use the same toner heated with the same kind of fuser. So it's not clear to me that "just buy a new printer" is actually helpful advice.

On the other hand, people do regularly report success by moving the printer to a different circuit.
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Re: laser printer with low power-on surge

Post by jebmke »

telemark wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:28 am
Bogle7 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:19 pm
squirm wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:59 pmJust buy a new printer, bring it home. If it has an issue take it back and try another one. I don't see what the difficulty is in that. This whole thread is whacky.
+1
Once you start looking, it turns out there are a number of threads on this subject in various places around the web. Some people with newer printers have never seen the problem, and some people with older printers have also never seen it, and many people have seen the problem but ignore it: but in no thread, that I can find, does anyone ever say "I had this problem and fixed it by buying a new printer." The basic technology of laser printers hasn't changed much in the last 20 years. A newer model will probably have wifi and support Google Cloud Print and make it more difficult to use off-brand toner cartridges, but it will use the same toner heated with the same kind of fuser. So it's not clear to me that "just buy a new printer" is actually helpful advice.

On the other hand, people do regularly report success by moving the printer to a different circuit.
The newer printer lines have mechanical systems that allow lower duty cycle printers to achieve speeds that are close to older high duty cycle printers. While the peak current is still significant, it is lower. Most of the manufacturers publish the specs on normal and peak current draw. A Brother 2170dw is over 4 amps (peak). A smalL HP today is about 3 amps.

Assuming there is no fault in the circuit and OP does not want to run a 20 amp circuit, his main option is to shed load — combination of other loads and alternative device.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
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