Small Claims questions

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stocknoob4111
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Small Claims questions

Post by stocknoob4111 »

Recently I read on another forum an experience posted by a customer who rented a vehicle with one of the major chains, the rental car company simply refused to honor the daily rate that he had the reservation for and when he dropped the car off charged him a much higher rate. He disputed it with his credit card after which they sent it to collections and it affected his credit.

Not quite sure who is right in this specific case but assuming the rental car company is in the wrong here are my questions:

What is the best course of action if a similar scenario takes place, should you dispute with the CC or not do anything and file in Small Claims?

If you file in Small Claims is it possible to do it in another state? i.e. if I live in Texas and was visiting Nevada and rented the car there what are my options? Does the business require a presence in the state where you are filing or do you have to file in the state where the business in headquartered?

When filing Small Claims the other party isn't able to counter sue for legal costs right? That is my understanding since lawyers aren't allowed in Small Claims court.
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8foot7
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by 8foot7 »

You can file in any state where your adversary has a presence.

I would always dispute with CC first. If it develops where you get sent to collections, you can sue the collections company AND the car rental company and collect from both. (While I am sure you don't want to invite inconvenience in your life, this eventuality could be quite lucrative for you -- if the collections agency damages your credit over money you never owed, you can collect punitive damages as a violation of the FDCPA, and you can collect from the car company the amount you were overcharged plus your hassle in filing.)

Generally in small claims the loser pays the cost of the filing the suit but you are correct in that there are no attorney fees awarded.
seawolf21
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by seawolf21 »

It depends. Did renter returned at location and time on the contract? If returned at different location and/or time (including earlier), rate is subject to change.

Rental agreement probably requires arbitration which could work to renter's advantage because it likely requires rental agency to pay the arbitration fee just to get a case started. So if the amount in question is minimal compared to arbitration fee, rental agency may decide it's not worth going to arbitration over if renter "pushes" for arbitration as per agreement. :D
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8foot7
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by 8foot7 »

seawolf21 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:43 am Rental agreement probably requires arbitration which could work to renter's advantage because it likely requires rental agency to pay the arbitration fee just to get a case started. So if the amount in question is minimal compared to arbitration fee, rental agency may decide it's not worth going to arbitration over if renter "pushes" for arbitration as per agreement. :D

AAA Rules Allow Consumers to Avoid Arbitration and Go Straight to a Small Claims Court Option

Whenever an arbitration clause requires AAA arbitration or arbitration under AAA rules, the consumer always has the option to sue in small claims court instead of AAA arbitration. AAA Consumer Arbitration Rule R-9, Small Claims Option for the Parties provides that the consumer need not even first file a claim with the AAA. The rules do not define a small claims court, so it is unclear what court in a given state is considered a small claims court, but in some states the applicable court may allow for a sizeable consumer recovery.

Going to small claims court is a useful option not only to avoid arbitration from the beginning, but when a business refuses to arbitrate by paying its required fees. Instead of seeking a court order that the arbitration agreement is unenforceable, the consumer can immediately litigate the dispute in small claims court. Another option when the business refuses to pay arbitration costs is for the consumer to front the arbitration costs, and seek their recovery as part of the arbitration award. See AAA Consumer Arbitration Rule R-54(a).


---https://library.nclc.org/getting-court- ... rbitration
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cheese_breath
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by cheese_breath »

I had a similar problem with Hertz many years ago. I paid what the wanted, and then phoned Hertz customer service when I got back home. They refunded me the difference.
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tibbitts
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by tibbitts »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:22 am Recently I read on another forum an experience posted by a customer who rented a vehicle with one of the major chains, the rental car company simply refused to honor the daily rate that he had the reservation for and when he dropped the car off charged him a much higher rate. He disputed it with his credit card after which they sent it to collections and it affected his credit.

Not quite sure who is right in this specific case but assuming the rental car company is in the wrong here are my questions:

What is the best course of action if a similar scenario takes place, should you dispute with the CC or not do anything and file in Small Claims?

If you file in Small Claims is it possible to do it in another state? i.e. if I live in Texas and was visiting Nevada and rented the car there what are my options? Does the business require a presence in the state where you are filing or do you have to file in the state where the business in headquartered?

When filing Small Claims the other party isn't able to counter sue for legal costs right? That is my understanding since lawyers aren't allowed in Small Claims court.
"Not quite sure who is right" isn't a common position when you're considering devoting time/effort to pursuing a small claims case. So you have the original reservation document stating the rate, returned at the specified time and location, and more was charged to the credit card? How did the rental company respond when you sent them the documentation? Based on my own experience I wouldn't count on winning a credit card dispute here, since I'm guessing you agreed at one point or another to pay almost anything the rental company charged to your card. But surely the rental company responded in some way to explain the charges?
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stocknoob4111
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by stocknoob4111 »

Thanks for the responses, very valuable information here.
tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:55 am "Not quite sure who is right" isn't a common position when you're considering devoting time/effort to pursuing a small claims case. So you have the original reservation document stating the rate, returned at the specified time and location, and more was charged to the credit card?
This isn't my specific scenario, I am going on 2 trips to Las Vegas and Salt Lake City, renting in both locations so trying to do some investigative work to be prepared. Apparently due to the Pandemic fiasco there is a lot of turmoil in the car rental industry with inventories being super low and huge labor shortages. Also, there are a lot of reports of locations simply closing due to no staff available and people with reservations having no way to picking up the car.

Rental car companies are trying to squeeze every dollar they can to stay afloat and recoup their costs as well since car prices have skyrocketed. However, I am paying MUCH higher rates to begin with so I (or anyone else for that matter) would definitely not expect or tolerate any other shady means to extort money from me. My guess is that they are trying to do it and see what sticks with a certain percentage of people just not wanting to bother challenging it.

Hopefully, this will not happen to me, i've never had a single rental car issue in the last 20+ years, knock on wood, but the current situation is unique.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Not a legal opinion, but a logical sequence:

Reservation costs no money and the car rental company has no obligation to hold to the rate or even have a car available, unless you've paid in advance.

You go to rent the car. The rate is right there on the contract that both you and the rental agent signed. If you object to the rate, you can not sign and walk to another rental agency. Or go out and get in a taxi. Or do whatever you want.

Once the car is returned, that closes out the contract.

As mentioned, if you contact the national CSR center and complain that you were quoted one rate and upon arrival, charged another, they may refund you the difference because they want good reviews and want you to return as a customer. If they're a fly by night company or one in the middle of bankruptcy, then good luck with that.

You could go the small claims route. Likely, they won't show up, which means you win. You may even win before then if they don't answer the initial suit notice. I won a small claims this way once. Not rental company....bounced check for wheels with tires.
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hicabob
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by hicabob »

I rented from budget a couple weeks ago. About $40/day including airport fees and a nice upgrade too. No funny stuff at all. I wouldn't pre-emptively get stressed about it if I were you.
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stocknoob4111
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by stocknoob4111 »

hicabob wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:41 am I rented from budget a couple weeks ago. About $40/day including airport fees and a nice upgrade too. No funny stuff at all. I wouldn't pre-emptively get stressed about it if I were you.
yeah, I hear you, I tend to get worked up before the fact assuming the worst reading reviews which I know I shouldn't... some of the reviews are from people who clearly did not understand the contract. I am glad to hear your experience that this isn't a consistent experience due to the Pandemic.
seawolf21
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by seawolf21 »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:33 am Thanks for the responses, very valuable information here.
tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:55 am "Not quite sure who is right" isn't a common position when you're considering devoting time/effort to pursuing a small claims case. So you have the original reservation document stating the rate, returned at the specified time and location, and more was charged to the credit card?
This isn't my specific scenario, I am going on 2 trips to Las Vegas and Salt Lake City, renting in both locations so trying to do some investigative work to be prepared. Apparently due to the Pandemic fiasco there is a lot of turmoil in the car rental industry with inventories being super low and huge labor shortages. Also, there are a lot of reports of locations simply closing due to no staff available and people with reservations having no way to picking up the car.

Rental car companies are trying to squeeze every dollar they can to stay afloat and recoup their costs as well since car prices have skyrocketed. However, I am paying MUCH higher rates to begin with so I (or anyone else for that matter) would definitely not expect or tolerate any other shady means to extort money from me. My guess is that they are trying to do it and see what sticks with a certain percentage of people just not wanting to bother challenging it.

Hopefully, this will not happen to me, i've never had a single rental car issue in the last 20+ years, knock on wood, but the current situation is unique.
Not sure which agencies you rent from but never had return rate discrepancies from Avis/National/Hertz as long as pickup/return time/location is met as per agreement.
tibbitts
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by tibbitts »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:33 am Thanks for the responses, very valuable information here.
tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:55 am "Not quite sure who is right" isn't a common position when you're considering devoting time/effort to pursuing a small claims case. So you have the original reservation document stating the rate, returned at the specified time and location, and more was charged to the credit card?
This isn't my specific scenario, I am going on 2 trips to Las Vegas and Salt Lake City, renting in both locations so trying to do some investigative work to be prepared. Apparently due to the Pandemic fiasco there is a lot of turmoil in the car rental industry with inventories being super low and huge labor shortages. Also, there are a lot of reports of locations simply closing due to no staff available and people with reservations having no way to picking up the car.

Rental car companies are trying to squeeze every dollar they can to stay afloat and recoup their costs as well since car prices have skyrocketed. However, I am paying MUCH higher rates to begin with so I (or anyone else for that matter) would definitely not expect or tolerate any other shady means to extort money from me. My guess is that they are trying to do it and see what sticks with a certain percentage of people just not wanting to bother challenging it.

Hopefully, this will not happen to me, i've never had a single rental car issue in the last 20+ years, knock on wood, but the current situation is unique.
I agree that the pandemic has created problems with the travel industry (and many others.) So given that why are you making these trips, and using rental cars at these locations?
Topic Author
stocknoob4111
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Re: Small Claims questions

Post by stocknoob4111 »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:58 am I agree that the pandemic has created problems with the travel industry (and many others.) So given that why are you making these trips, and using rental cars at these locations?
The pandemic was dying down, or so I thought, this appeared to be the case a few months ago when I planned both trips :) What can I say I am an optimist when it comes to travel :D
JBTX
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Re: Small Claims questions

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