How would you rate the following cities?

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hunoraut
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by hunoraut »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm I have been thinking about relocating to a large (or larger) city and have my list narrowed down to the following:

Cincinnati
Knoxville, TN
Chicago
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Madison, WI
Indianapolis

Some criteria that I am considering: tech job opportunities, dating scene, low crime, nearby biking/hiking trails, affordable housing, and good weather (I tend to prefer warmer weather although I wouldn't rule out a "colder" city if it otherwise meets my standards).

If anyone has lived in or know much about any of these cities, feel free to chime in. Thanks!
answers are gonna be incredibly biased so the only thing ill add is that Las Vegas really surprised me in a good way. for a long time i thought it was just a very superficial city of vice in the middle of the desert, and not a place one wishes to live.

BUT, its very affordable, has great access to food, nestled next to a mountain and an actual ski slope, and a few hours away from multiple great national parks and not much farther from coastlines of california. the heat in the summer is more tolerable than in texas.
carolinaman
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by carolinaman »

Knoxville hands down for me. You mentioned hiking and outdoors stuff. The Great Smoky Mountains are nearby. Climate is moderate, not too cold in winter and summers are not too bad as far as Southern cities are concerned.

As others have said, these cities are so different. It would help if we had a more complete list of your criteria for selecting a city.
Old Guy
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Old Guy »

As for Chicago: when we lived in Madison we bought a condo in the River North section of the city. Crime was not an issue but cold was. We absolutely loved our weekends there. Great walking around city. We enjoyed the restaurants, theater, museums, shopping. and the views from our 18th floor apartment. My wife wanted to keep it when we moved to SC, but it didn’t make much sense.

Bottom line is: different strokes for different folks.
Carefreeap
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Carefreeap »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:47 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:23 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:46 pm Added to the list
Summers not too hot?
Charlotte can be humid. That said, if you say you prefer warmer weather then you shouldn't be asking "too hot." While at it, if that's a concern then Phoenix should not be on your list.
Phoenix has dry heat. :) Plus I admit that I am biased because I have been there.
You have to spend a week at 117 degrees in July just as the Monsoon is building. :shock: I moved from the Bay Area to the greater PHX area in August. :oops: Nothing like ripping the band-aid off!
Every day I can hike is a good day.
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quantAndHold
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by quantAndHold »

My personal opinion is that Phoenix and Las Vegas are the worst two cities in the western US. They’re ginormous suburbs spread for miles across the desert, just like every other suburb in the US, except for the 120 degree summer weather and the lack of anything green and growing. I would literally choose every other western city before either of those. If you actually want desert, Tucson is a nicer place, and if you want Nevada, Reno is surprisingly nice.

Phoenix and Vegas aside though, it sounds like proximity to family is a bigger requirement than anything else, so you might want to focus on just applying for jobs in places near family, and seeing what turns up.
ThankYouJack
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by ThankYouJack »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:02 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:51 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Raleigh makes me think of the Andy Griffith show. I think Mayberry was supposed to be near there lol.
I'm guessing you've never been since you're basing things on a fictional show from the 60s. Where do you live now(if you care to say) and where have you been in the US?
I have not.

I am in the midwest. As far as cities go, I have been to all of the cities on my list in the OP except for Knoxville. I have also been to Nashville, Memphis, and Kansas City.
I've lived and traveled all around the US. I've heard people call the Midwest fly-over country but I think that's pretty ignorant. There's so many great places that I don't think people should knock places until they've been there. Everyplace has plusses and minuses. It's all about what you make of it.
JackoC
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by JackoC »

cbs2002 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:18 am Chicago is so different from all the other places on your list.

Cost of living is not high relative to NYC and Bay Area. You get way more space for your money in Chicago. Relative to Indianapolis and Pittsburgh, it's high.

People move to Chicago because of the food, music, art, networking and economic opportunity that comes at a lower cost than VHCOL cities. You can do basically anything in Chicago except climb a mountain. People tolerate the weather, taxes and density because those other things are off the charts. If "crime" is something you think about as a factor in where you live, it would rule out all the largest cities in the U.S.

Madison feels like a big small town but with near-Chicago prices. Indy has some things going for it and it's further south so the winters are not quite so cold.

Others have mentioned it but I'll second with your priorities that Charlotte could be a good fit.
On crime I think the problem is actually assessing your personal* risk moving someplace you don't already know. Without getting into a general debate about Chicago v NY I know from decades experience it's very safe from crime where I live less than a mile from Manhattan in NJ, closer to the Manhattan business districts than the vast majority of the area of the City itself is. I just would not know that moving not only to a 'nice' part of Chicago but many much smaller cities also.

You can feel your way through the darkness to some degree looking at localized crime stats, to a very limited and rough degree taking the temperature of 'people on the internet' claiming to know about a locale, but it's hard to really nail it down IMO without living someplace for awhile.

*I mean to self, family or property; I guess most people would weigh risk of actual personal harm to themselves or family even higher.
Blanco 5.0
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Blanco 5.0 »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:11 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:21 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:44 pm Raleigh makes me think of the Andy Griffith show. I think Mayberry was supposed to be near there lol.
The fictional Mayberry of the Andy Griffith Show was supposedly based on Mount Airy, NC which is not near Raleigh. Check Google Maps. Mount Airy has evolved into a wine area in the many decades that have elapsed since Andy Griffith. As for Raleigh, it is the largest city in NC's Research Triangle. You should google it before you throw stones at it.
I don't know how you got the impression that I was "throwing stones" at it merely because I mentioned that I used to hear it mentioned on the "fictional" Andy Griffith show. I was in no way comparing it to "Mayberry" LOL. I'm sure it is a fine city.

I recall mention of a "Mount Pilot" as well. I am pretty sure that was a fictional city.
Mount Pilot is Pilot Mtn. 10 miles south of Mt. Airy and not fictional save reversing the word order. Siler City is real as well.
IMO
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by IMO »

ThankYouJack wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:41 am
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:02 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:51 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Raleigh makes me think of the Andy Griffith show. I think Mayberry was supposed to be near there lol.
I'm guessing you've never been since you're basing things on a fictional show from the 60s. Where do you live now(if you care to say) and where have you been in the US?
I have not.

I am in the midwest. As far as cities go, I have been to all of the cities on my list in the OP except for Knoxville. I have also been to Nashville, Memphis, and Kansas City.
I've lived and traveled all around the US. I've heard people call the Midwest fly-over country but I think that's pretty ignorant. There's so many great places that I don't think people should knock places until they've been there. Everyplace has plusses and minuses. It's all about what you make of it.
I think it can go beyond just having been there to living in an area for some time to know the in/outs of the area, what's good/bad, and even the unexpected.

I just always find it interesting that some places get bashed for hot weather while ignoring cold weather. For example, a city on the East Coast this week has weather of high's in the low 30's with lows in the 20's this week while an often bashed city on this site has high's in mid 70's/low mid 50's this week (and sunny). High's in low 30's (and it's just November) seems as miserable to me as high's at 112 degrees in the summer, but well ignore that what's worse is you can't drive 2 hrs away and get in warm weather to escape the cold.

Like you said, it's all about what you make of it. Very personal stuff with many many factors to consider.
muffins14
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by muffins14 »

IMO wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:09 pm High's in low 30's (and it's just November) seems as miserable to me as high's at 112 degrees in the summer, but well ignore that what's worse is you can't drive 2 hrs away and get in warm weather to escape the cold.

Like you said, it's all about what you make of it. Very personal stuff with many many factors to consider.
Everything is a trade off, right? For example coats and hats work great, and I’ll gladly accept coats and hats for 4 months in exchange for the other things I perceive as advantages in my location. As a small example, living in San Francisco was not great for me because after 5pm it always felt cold to me even in august to September so dining outdoors was unpleasant. In NYC, drinks,dining, picnics and parties outside with friends from May through October is one of my favorite things.

I think it’s best to think about your prioritization framework for your goals and lifestyle, and then also realize nothing has to be permanent. You can try something for a couple years and move on
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kbjeffrey
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by kbjeffrey »

I've lived in both Madison and Chicago, as well as Long Island for 5 yrs in Grad School for CS PhD. My family is mostly in NYC. I've been in Chicago now since 1985 (not including 5 yrs in grad school). Like many things, my reasons for loving Chicago might not apply to others. I love that Chicago is very diverse and people are almost always kind to each other. There are good opportunities in tech here and for a big city it is reasonably affordable. For me it is just the right size city; big enough to always have lots going on and easy to travel to many places. The winters can be brutal at times, but it scares away the whiners. :-)
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quantAndHold
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by quantAndHold »

muffins14 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:54 pm I think it’s best to think about your prioritization framework for your goals and lifestyle, and then also realize nothing has to be permanent. You can try something for a couple years and move on
This is the crux of the matter. It's all individual. There are a *lot* of Bogleheads who live in, and love, places that I wouldn't last five minutes in, and plenty of people here who would choke at the mere thought of living in the dense urban neighborhood I live in, but my wife and I think it's paradise on earth. We have enough money that we could live more or less where we want, and this is the place we've chosen.

My suggestion to OP is that since they don't seem all that certain what their priorities really are, would be to just get a job somewhere and give that place a tryout. We moved a couple of times to different cities over the years, and while we didn't like everywhere we went, moving around made us really clear what our likes and dislikes are.
twh
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by twh »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm Some criteria that I am considering: tech job opportunities
Move to San Jose area. All there except affordable housing. But, if you are in tech, you'll be able to afford.
palaheel
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by palaheel »

The summer heat and humidity combination in Charlotte and Raleigh can be brutal.
Nothing to say, really.
Kellerreiss
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Kellerreiss »

Not Chicago. High taxes, high crime-rate, dysfunctional government at state, county, and city levels. Expensive housing choices don't get you "safe" chicago neighborhood.

Harsh winter, hot summer.
csmath
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by csmath »

Kellerreiss wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:30 pm Not Chicago. High taxes, high crime-rate, dysfunctional government at state, county, and city levels. Expensive housing choices don't get you "safe" chicago neighborhood.

Harsh winter, hot summer.
I’m surprised to even see Chicago in the same list as the phrase “low crime” in the criteria. On a positive note, Chicagoland would love to have another high salary tech worker move within the footprint to offset the migration of money out of the state.
muffins14
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by muffins14 »

Obviously crime differs neighborhood by neighborhood and group to group. I’m sure Chicago is safe for a boglehead.
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Impatience
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Impatience »

5 out of 7
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:20 am https://jabberwocking.com/nyt-says-irvi ... me-for-me/

linked through from that blog post is a New York Times' "where should I live?" location selector.

I would recommend trying it with no restriction where in Continental USA you live. Then from the subset it generates, you can narrow down to whether the location works for you in terms of family.
Tried accessing that site but wasn't able to use without a subscription.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

JPM wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:31 am Midwestern winters are a lot more tolerable with a reliable car and good winter gear. Without either one, the winters can be miserable. With both, you can enjoy winter.
I've had both...for many years, and still don't enjoy winter. :)
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

sneakboxer wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:54 am I have been moving as a work requirement every 2-3 years for the last two decades. I take 10 or so locations and then 10-15 things I deem important and make a chart/matrix. Each topic gets a ranked value 1-10 and then I total up the location's score. That may help you narrow down your list to say a top three anyway. It a pretty personal decision in the end. You may value dating over insurance cost or biking over crime rate, that's your call. I'm not a city guy but its hard to beat the PNW for outdoor activities. Pittsburgh has the Laurel Highlands and Allegheny National forest well within striking distance.
Good luck in your search.
This is a great idea. It's similar to what I've already done but I think I need to get into delve into more detail. Thanks
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quantAndHold
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by quantAndHold »

wojo8625 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:49 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:20 am https://jabberwocking.com/nyt-says-irvi ... me-for-me/

linked through from that blog post is a New York Times' "where should I live?" location selector.

I would recommend trying it with no restriction where in Continental USA you live. Then from the subset it generates, you can narrow down to whether the location works for you in terms of family.
Tried accessing that site but wasn't able to use without a subscription.
Try opening it in a private window.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

Old Guy wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:48 am Bottom line is: different strokes for different folks.
That is the truth based on the responses I've seen here.

Thanks to everyone that has responded. I have read every response even if I did not reply to each one.

Instead of narrowing down the options, I seem to have more options. That's okay though.

I'll definitely need to do some more analysis on my end. Lots of good information here though.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:55 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:49 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:20 am https://jabberwocking.com/nyt-says-irvi ... me-for-me/

linked through from that blog post is a New York Times' "where should I live?" location selector.

I would recommend trying it with no restriction where in Continental USA you live. Then from the subset it generates, you can narrow down to whether the location works for you in terms of family.
Tried accessing that site but wasn't able to use without a subscription.
Try opening it in a private window.
It is still asking for information. Thanks anyway.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:47 pm This is the crux of the matter. It's all individual. There are a *lot* of Bogleheads who live in, and love, places that I wouldn't last five minutes in, and plenty of people here who would choke at the mere thought of living in the dense urban neighborhood I live in, but my wife and I think it's paradise on earth. We have enough money that we could live more or less where we want, and this is the place we've chosen.

My suggestion to OP is that since they don't seem all that certain what their priorities really are, would be to just get a job somewhere and give that place a tryout. We moved a couple of times to different cities over the years, and while we didn't like everywhere we went, moving around made us really clear what our likes and dislikes are.
There is something to be said for that.
Sometimes I wish I would have moved around when I was younger but ended up buying a house instead.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

ThankYouJack wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:41 am
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:02 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:51 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Raleigh makes me think of the Andy Griffith show. I think Mayberry was supposed to be near there lol.
I'm guessing you've never been since you're basing things on a fictional show from the 60s. Where do you live now(if you care to say) and where have you been in the US?
I have not.

I am in the midwest. As far as cities go, I have been to all of the cities on my list in the OP except for Knoxville. I have also been to Nashville, Memphis, and Kansas City.
I've lived and traveled all around the US. I've heard people call the Midwest fly-over country but I think that's pretty ignorant. There's so many great places that I don't think people should knock places until they've been there. Everyplace has plusses and minuses. It's all about what you make of it.
Agreed. The Andy Griffith comment was not meant to be a knock on Raleigh. I just remember hearing about the city on the show. It is otherwise a city that I haven't heard much about.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

oldlongbeard wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:07 pm Low crime, good weather...... and you include CHICAGO???!!!!!!!?????

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Other members have pointed out that crime is in certain areas. To be more specific, I would say I would consider the north side of Chicago as opposed to the south side.

Winters suck there but summers are usually decent.
Marseille07
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Marseille07 »

Tbh I think your list is very strange. If you want a good tech job, your choices are pretty much:

Tier 1: Silicon Valley
Tier 2: Seattle, Austin, LA, NY
Tier 3: Dallas, Charlotte, Denver etc etc
Tier 4: Everywhere else

Places like Madison, Indianapolis etc etc are nice, but they aren't really a major tech hub.
jkhayc
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by jkhayc »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:20 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 pm Cincinnati
Knoxville, TN
Chicago — too cold in the winter
Phoenix — mighty hot in the summer
Las Vegas — mighty hot in the summer, and has an economy based on gambling
Madison, WI — too cold in the winter
Indianapolis — too cold in the winter

Looks like Cincinnati or Knoxville.

You could do better than this list.
Any other suggestions welcome.
I might consider putting Nashville on that list. Oracle having a big presence in the short term future could accelerate the changing landscape of industry in the area. I have personally lived (as an adult) in Charlotte (2007-2016), Scottsdale (2016-2021), and now Nashville.

I am from the south (New Orleans) so Nashville and Charlotte have a lot going for me in terms of affinity, but Scottsdale was (/is) a really nice place to live. Certain areas of Phoenix are, as well.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:11 pm Tbh I think your list is very strange. If you want a good tech job, your choices are pretty much:

Tier 1: Silicon Valley
Tier 2: Seattle, Austin, LA, NY
Tier 3: Dallas, Charlotte, Denver etc etc
Tier 4: Everywhere else

Places like Madison, Indianapolis etc etc are nice, but they aren't really a major tech hub.
I guess it is strange if your only criteria is where the "good" tech jobs are.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

jkhayc wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:19 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:20 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 pm Cincinnati
Knoxville, TN
Chicago — too cold in the winter
Phoenix — mighty hot in the summer
Las Vegas — mighty hot in the summer, and has an economy based on gambling
Madison, WI — too cold in the winter
Indianapolis — too cold in the winter

Looks like Cincinnati or Knoxville.

You could do better than this list.
Any other suggestions welcome.
I might consider putting Nashville on that list. Oracle having a big presence in the short term future could accelerate the changing landscape of industry in the area. I have personally lived (as an adult) in Charlotte (2007-2016), Scottsdale (2016-2021), and now Nashville.

I am from the south (New Orleans) so Nashville and Charlotte have a lot going for me in terms of affinity, but Scottsdale was (/is) a really nice place to live. Certain areas of Phoenix are, as well.
Thank you for the suggestions. Why did you leave Scottsdale? (if you don't mind answering) Better job or just wanted to try another place? Charlotte was previously added to the list and I will consider Nashville as well.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Marseille07 »

wojo8625 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:23 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:11 pm Tbh I think your list is very strange. If you want a good tech job, your choices are pretty much:

Tier 1: Silicon Valley
Tier 2: Seattle, Austin, LA, NY
Tier 3: Dallas, Charlotte, Denver etc etc
Tier 4: Everywhere else

Places like Madison, Indianapolis etc etc are nice, but they aren't really a major tech hub.
I guess it is strange if your only criteria is where the "good" tech jobs are.
Lol, if tech jobs aren't a hard requirement then you can pretty much go anywhere. The problem is if SHTF after you move and having to switch jobs; that's when you might get in trouble, especially when you bought a house and everything.

This why selecting a tech hub is important, imo.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:30 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:23 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:11 pm Tbh I think your list is very strange. If you want a good tech job, your choices are pretty much:

Tier 1: Silicon Valley
Tier 2: Seattle, Austin, LA, NY
Tier 3: Dallas, Charlotte, Denver etc etc
Tier 4: Everywhere else

Places like Madison, Indianapolis etc etc are nice, but they aren't really a major tech hub.
I guess it is strange if your only criteria is where the "good" tech jobs are.
Lol, if tech jobs aren't a hard requirement then you can pretty much go anywhere. The problem is if SHTF after you move and having to switch jobs; that's when you might get in trouble, especially when you bought a house and everything.

This why selecting a tech hub is important, imo.
Valid point
That would definitely be a concern of mine.
muffins14
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by muffins14 »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:11 pm Tbh I think your list is very strange. If you want a good tech job, your choices are pretty much:

Tier 1: Silicon Valley
Tier 2: Seattle, Austin, LA, NY
Tier 3: Dallas, Charlotte, Denver etc etc
Tier 4: Everywhere else

Places like Madison, Indianapolis etc etc are nice, but they aren't really a major tech hub.
NY is far above Austin and LA, and perhaps even Seattle in terms of total tech jobs, companies, and compensation. That’s why I recommend it for the OP, since other quality of life categories are good in NY too, except the experience of winter, which Silicon Valley doesn’t have
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HomerJ
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by HomerJ »

Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:20 am https://jabberwocking.com/nyt-says-irvi ... me-for-me/

linked through from that blog post is a New York Times' "where should I live?" location selector.

I would recommend trying it with no restriction where in Continental USA you live. Then from the subset it generates, you can narrow down to whether the location works for you in terms of family.
The problem with the filters is you can't include "No bugs".

Florida was mostly perfect for me using that NY Times location thing-a-ma-jig. But I've BEEN to Florida, and I'll take Arizona any day over Florida, because I can leave my back sliding door wide open all day long in Arizona.

Plus no alligators. Maybe they need a filter for "No alligators" too... :)
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Slacker »

I'm going to also suggest Durham - Raleigh area.

More tech job openings than Charlotte from what I understand. Warm weather. Similar housing prices to Phoenix. New Apple campus is under construction and we also have IBM, redhat, SAS, Epic games, CREE, Cisco, many biotechs, and many of the big tech companies have workgroups here (I think Google is expanding their Durham location by 400 employees).

If you can stand humidity, I find the summers in Raleigh to be far more preferable to the summers in Phoenix. I'll take 90s and humidity over 120s any day. I've lived in Denver, Phoenix, Seattle, outside Atlanta, Raleigh, and DC.

Taxes - 4.99% this coming year with a $12,750 standard deduction ($25,500 for a married couple).

One area where we are lacking - mass transit. The bus system is a bit disjointed and dysfunctional. Traffic is lighter than Phoenix in the winter, DC, Seattle, and Denver. Also the mosquitoes will eat you alive - there are these particularly nasty ones that have white stripes on their body and they actually sting when they get you.

Beaches 2.5hrs away and mountains about 3hrs away. The spring flowers and fall colors are amazing in this area (but if you have bad allergies you may not enjoy it much). Where I'm at we have tons of hiking / biking trails where you are in the middle of the city and step on a trail and feel like you've been transported to the forest and the city just disappears other than the faint sounds of traffic in the distance. There are further plans for a biking / hiking trail that will connect Raleigh to Chapel Hill through Durham along I-40 (I can't say I have knowledge of whether or not it has been funded yet). Most of the bigger cities/suburbs have multiple large parks where you can encounter deer, foxes and raccoons (and unfortunately copper head snakes). The variety of birds that will visit your yard is also amazing. The area is growing still with many manufacturing jobs coming in (Fujifilm building a very large biotech manufacturing facility in Holly Springs as one example).

...as far as Mayberry goes, I'm always taken by surprise when I actually do run into someone with a southern accent since it is so uncommon in this area.

If marijuana is a consideration - it is not legal for recreational purposes in NC.
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HomerJ
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by HomerJ »

JPM wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:31 am Midwestern winters are a lot more tolerable with a reliable car and good winter gear. Without either one, the winters can be miserable. With both, you can enjoy winter.
Not completely, you can't. Good winter gear doesn't change the color of the grey sky.

Plus I have to wear my good winter gear indoors. I moved away from the Midwest winters because my feet were always cold. Even with heavy socks and slippers. Maybe if I wore two sets of socks and winter boots inside my house, I could have stayed there. (Or, I admit, I guess I could have bought a better insulated house, but if I was going to move anyway, might as well move somewhere warm)
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:42 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:20 am https://jabberwocking.com/nyt-says-irvi ... me-for-me/

linked through from that blog post is a New York Times' "where should I live?" location selector.

I would recommend trying it with no restriction where in Continental USA you live. Then from the subset it generates, you can narrow down to whether the location works for you in terms of family.
The problem with the filters is you can't include "No bugs".

Florida was mostly perfect for me using that NY Times location thing-a-ma-jig. But I've BEEN to Florida, and I'll take Arizona any day over Florida, because I can leave my back sliding door wide open all day long in Arizona.

Plus no alligators. Maybe they need a filter for "No alligators" too... :)
How about poisonous spiders or snakes?
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HomerJ
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by HomerJ »

wojo8625 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:57 pm
HomerJ wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:42 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:20 am https://jabberwocking.com/nyt-says-irvi ... me-for-me/

linked through from that blog post is a New York Times' "where should I live?" location selector.

I would recommend trying it with no restriction where in Continental USA you live. Then from the subset it generates, you can narrow down to whether the location works for you in terms of family.
The problem with the filters is you can't include "No bugs".

Florida was mostly perfect for me using that NY Times location thing-a-ma-jig. But I've BEEN to Florida, and I'll take Arizona any day over Florida, because I can leave my back sliding door wide open all day long in Arizona.

Plus no alligators. Maybe they need a filter for "No alligators" too... :)
How about poisonous spiders or snakes?
Supposedly we have scorpions in Arizona, but I have yet to see one.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
protagonist
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by protagonist »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm I have been thinking about relocating to a large (or larger) city and have my list narrowed down to the following:

Cincinnati
Knoxville, TN
Chicago
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Madison, WI
Indianapolis

Some criteria that I am considering: tech job opportunities, dating scene, low crime, nearby biking/hiking trails, affordable housing, and good weather (I tend to prefer warmer weather although I wouldn't rule out a "colder" city if it otherwise meets my standards).

If anyone has lived in or know much about any of these cities, feel free to chime in. Thanks!
Rating them is meaningless. It depends what is important to you. I doubt if many people who love Madison would want to live in Las Vegas, or vice versa.
Articles that rate cities are mostly just clickbait.
protagonist
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by protagonist »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:42 pm I'll take Arizona any day over Florida, because I can leave my back sliding door wide open all day long in Arizona.

FWIW, I leave my back sliding door wide open all day in Florida.
That said, I have a balcony overlooking the bay. It would be a long uphill climb for a Burmese python.
tjlit
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by tjlit »

LOL. If thinking of Pittsburgh is rust belt and steel mills you’re behind the times. There hasn’t been a steel mill in Pittsburgh for over 30 years. The steel industry collapsed in the ‘80s. Pittsburgh does have a growing high tech economy, but mostly meds (Hospitals and medical research)and eds econmomy (CMU and Pitt). Pittsburgh has affordable housing (median house ~$200K), and an increasingly good bike trail system. Restaurants and nightlife aren’t NYC, but decent. The downside of W. PA is the weather in Dec-April. It isn’t so much the winter, it’s mostly like other northern cities (Cin and Madison on your list), rather it’s the lack of sun during those months. You can go 5-7 days without a glimmer, then have a sunny (cold) day, then go another week without the sun.
MountainBiker
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by MountainBiker »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:06 pm
MountainBiker wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:05 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:20 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 pm Cincinnati
Knoxville, TN
Chicago — too cold in the winter
Phoenix — mighty hot in the summer
Las Vegas — mighty hot in the summer, and has an economy based on gambling
Madison, WI — too cold in the winter
Indianapolis — too cold in the winter

Looks like Cincinnati or Knoxville.

You could do better than this list.
Any other suggestions welcome.

Huntsville AL meets all your criteria. I moved here over 30 years ago and I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
It doesn't get really hot and humid there during the summer? When I think the southern states like Alabama and Mississippi, I think hot and humid summers.
It will be similar to Knoxville which is on your list; and in terms of dangerous heat while hiking, running or biking, it is much preferable to Las Vegas or Phoenix. I will concede the humidity.

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/banks/a ... live-work/

“In 2018, Business Insider named Huntsville the number one place to find a tech-sector job in the United States outside of Silicon Valley. And with the continued influx of technology spending in the area, it's hard to visualize this changing anytime soon.”
Slacker
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Slacker »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:00 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:57 pm
HomerJ wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:42 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:20 am https://jabberwocking.com/nyt-says-irvi ... me-for-me/

linked through from that blog post is a New York Times' "where should I live?" location selector.

I would recommend trying it with no restriction where in Continental USA you live. Then from the subset it generates, you can narrow down to whether the location works for you in terms of family.
The problem with the filters is you can't include "No bugs".

Florida was mostly perfect for me using that NY Times location thing-a-ma-jig. But I've BEEN to Florida, and I'll take Arizona any day over Florida, because I can leave my back sliding door wide open all day long in Arizona.

Plus no alligators. Maybe they need a filter for "No alligators" too... :)
How about poisonous spiders or snakes?
Supposedly we have scorpions in Arizona, but I have yet to see one.
I've seen more than enough for the both of us when I lived in Phoenix. The more venomous bark scorpion that will have you sick for days if you are stung happen to also be the main one you find in your house crawling on the walls and ceilings.
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wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pm I'm going to also suggest Durham - Raleigh area.

More tech job openings than Charlotte from what I understand. Warm weather. Similar housing prices to Phoenix. New Apple campus is under construction and we also have IBM, redhat, SAS, Epic games, CREE, Cisco, many biotechs, and many of the big tech companies have workgroups here (I think Google is expanding their Durham location by 400 employees).

If you can stand humidity, I find the summers in Raleigh to be far more preferable to the summers in Phoenix.
How about the winters?
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmI'll take 90s and humidity over 120s any day. I've lived in Denver, Phoenix, Seattle, outside Atlanta, Raleigh, and DC.

Taxes - 4.99% this coming year with a $12,750 standard deduction ($25,500 for a married couple).

One area where we are lacking - mass transit. The bus system is a bit disjointed and dysfunctional. Traffic is lighter than Phoenix in the winter, DC, Seattle, and Denver. Also the mosquitoes will eat you alive - there are these particularly nasty ones that have white stripes on their body and they actually sting when they get you.
That's the disadvantage of warm weather places.....nasty bugs. Maybe not so bad in a city though?
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmBeaches 2.5hrs away and mountains about 3hrs away. The spring flowers and fall colors are amazing in this area (but if you have bad allergies you may not enjoy it much).
I do tend to have seasonal allergies.
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmWhere I'm at we have tons of hiking / biking trails where you are in the middle of the city and step on a trail and feel like you've been transported to the forest and the city just disappears other than the faint sounds of traffic in the distance. There are further plans for a biking / hiking trail that will connect Raleigh to Chapel Hill through Durham along I-40 (I can't say I have knowledge of whether or not it has been funded yet). Most of the bigger cities/suburbs have multiple large parks where you can encounter deer, foxes and raccoons (and unfortunately copper head snakes).
Copper head snakes? Interesting. Is that a common thing or rare? I will often say I want to live in a warm weather snake but I do admit that I wouldn't want to deal with poisonous spiders in the house or poisonous snakes in the yard.
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmThe variety of birds that will visit your yard is also amazing. The area is growing still with many manufacturing jobs coming in (Fujifilm building a very large biotech manufacturing facility in Holly Springs as one example).

...as far as Mayberry goes, I'm always taken by surprise when I actually do run into someone with a southern accent since it is so uncommon in this area.

If marijuana is a consideration - it is not legal for recreational purposes in NC.
Thanks for all the info!
Last edited by wojo8625 on Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
livesoft
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by livesoft »

It seems Nature is too dangerous, so the OP cannot live anywhere. I have to write that if I don't see a poisonous snake when I'm out hiking, then I am very disappointed. A snake in the yard also does not bother me. Ticks are probably deadlier anyways and don't get me started on dogs.
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Topic Author
wojo8625
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wojo8625 »

livesoft wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:00 am It seems Nature is too dangerous, so the OP cannot live anywhere.
How did you come to that conclusion based on what "the OP" posted?
Marseille07
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Marseille07 »

muffins14 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:03 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:11 pm Tbh I think your list is very strange. If you want a good tech job, your choices are pretty much:

Tier 1: Silicon Valley
Tier 2: Seattle, Austin, LA, NY
Tier 3: Dallas, Charlotte, Denver etc etc
Tier 4: Everywhere else

Places like Madison, Indianapolis etc etc are nice, but they aren't really a major tech hub.
NY is far above Austin and LA, and perhaps even Seattle in terms of total tech jobs, companies, and compensation. That’s why I recommend it for the OP, since other quality of life categories are good in NY too, except the experience of winter, which Silicon Valley doesn’t have
Tier 1: Silicon Valley, NY
Tier 2: Seattle, Austin, LA
Tier 3: Dallas, Charlotte, Denver, Salt Lake City, Atlanta, Houston, Boston
Tier 4: Everywhere else

Something like this then? I think Tier 3 can include more cities as well.
Slacker
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Slacker »

wojo8625 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:42 am
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pm I'm going to also suggest Durham - Raleigh area.

More tech job openings than Charlotte from what I understand. Warm weather. Similar housing prices to Phoenix. New Apple campus is under construction and we also have IBM, redhat, SAS, Epic games, CREE, Cisco, many biotechs, and many of the big tech companies have workgroups here (I think Google is expanding their Durham location by 400 employees).

If you can stand humidity, I find the summers in Raleigh to be far more preferable to the summers in Phoenix.
How about the winters?
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmI'll take 90s and humidity over 120s any day. I've lived in Denver, Phoenix, Seattle, outside Atlanta, Raleigh, and DC.

Taxes - 4.99% this coming year with a $12,750 standard deduction ($25,500 for a married couple).

One area where we are lacking - mass transit. The bus system is a bit disjointed and dysfunctional. Traffic is lighter than Phoenix in the winter, DC, Seattle, and Denver. Also the mosquitoes will eat you alive - there are these particularly nasty ones that have white stripes on their body and they actually sting when they get you.
That's the disadvantage of warm weather places.....nasty bugs. Maybe not so bad in a city though?
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmBeaches 2.5hrs away and mountains about 3hrs away. The spring flowers and fall colors are amazing in this area (but if you have bad allergies you may not enjoy it much).
I do tend to have seasonal allergies.
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmWhere I'm at we have tons of hiking / biking trails where you are in the middle of the city and step on a trail and feel like you've been transported to the forest and the city just disappears other than the faint sounds of traffic in the distance. There are further plans for a biking / hiking trail that will connect Raleigh to Chapel Hill through Durham along I-40 (I can't say I have knowledge of whether or not it has been funded yet). Most of the bigger cities/suburbs have multiple large parks where you can encounter deer, foxes and raccoons (and unfortunately copper head snakes).
Copper head snakes? Interesting. Is that a common thing or rare? I will often say I want to live in a warm weather snake but I do admit that I wouldn't want to deal with poisonous spiders in the house or poisonous snakes in the yard.
Slacker wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 pmThe variety of birds that will visit your yard is also amazing. The area is growing still with many manufacturing jobs coming in (Fujifilm building a very large biotech manufacturing facility in Holly Springs as one example).

...as far as Mayberry goes, I'm always taken by surprise when I actually do run into someone with a southern accent since it is so uncommon in this area.

If marijuana is a consideration - it is not legal for recreational purposes in NC.
Thanks for all the info!
Winters - I've seen snow twice in 3 years here. One time it stuck around for almost a whole day. Some days I have to get shorts and a t shirt, but typically we are in the 50s and 60s during the day and mid 30s low 40s for the overnight lows.

Bugs - get your house sprayed every 60 days. If you have a very forested backyard like me, you may want liberal applications of "off" to last in the backyard during summer. However, it is rarely a problem walking around the neighborhoods and the trails aren't too bad either.

Side note: Phoenix strangely has almost as bad a mosquito problem as NC.

Allergies - I had more issues in Seattle than here but a few days in spring the skies will be yellow with oak tree and dogwood pollen. I take an antihistamine maybe on 2 or 3 days of the year.

Copperheads - they won't kill you. A neighbor had one in their yard and the dachshund survived a bite on the nose (with proper medical care of course). I've seen many out hiking, but never seen them go after a person. I think people only get bit when they step on one (they blend in a little) or intentionally harass them.

We get many orb weavers, but only the tiny jumping spiders have made it into our house. The orb weavers create amazing webs and have the most vibrantly colored bodies - a joy to observe IMO.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Carefreeap »

livesoft wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:00 am It seems Nature is too dangerous, so the OP cannot live anywhere. I have to write that if I don't see a poisonous snake when I'm out hiking, then I am very disappointed. A snake in the yard also does not bother me. Ticks are probably deadlier anyways and don't get me started on dogs.
I have been in the greater Phoenix area for nearly a month and haven't seen a single snake venomous or otherwise. I've done plenty of hiking while I've been here and we're on a 1.7 acre lot. Totally bummed.
Every day I can hike is a good day.
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