How would you rate the following cities?

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nydoc
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by nydoc »

Go to Dallas. It’s very simple.
Marseille07
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Marseille07 »

nydoc wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:38 pm Go to Dallas. It’s very simple.
I seriously considered Dallas at one point as well. The weather seemed the best among Texas (Austin / San Antonio are hot, Houston is humid), some tech jobs, affordable housing, seemingly good food etc etc.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

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ThankYouJack
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by ThankYouJack »

IMO wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:09 pm
I think it can go beyond just having been there to living in an area for some time to know the in/outs of the area, what's good/bad, and even the unexpected.

I just always find it interesting that some places get bashed for hot weather while ignoring cold weather. For example, a city on the East Coast this week has weather of high's in the low 30's with lows in the 20's this week while an often bashed city on this site has high's in mid 70's/low mid 50's this week (and sunny). High's in low 30's (and it's just November) seems as miserable to me as high's at 112 degrees in the summer, but well ignore that what's worse is you can't drive 2 hrs away and get in warm weather to escape the cold.

Like you said, it's all about what you make of it. Very personal stuff with many many factors to consider.
I agree. I've lived in some tourist cities in CA and HI and it's much different living there than just visiting for a week or two. I prefer living there and knowing the ins and outs to get a true feel for the area.

I agree about weather too. I tend to acclimate well to warm weather so am surprised how much it's always bashed on here, but I know some people who dread heat / humidity.

Another thing to consider is amount of sunlight in the winter. When I lived in the Northeast, I didn't like how it got dark so early in the dead of winter.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by HomerJ »

ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:35 am Another thing to consider is amount of sunlight in the winter. When I lived in the Northeast, I didn't like how it got dark so early in the dead of winter.
Yes, I think the sunlight and constant blue skies in Phoenix really do give one a boost psychologically.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by ThankYouJack »

wojo8625 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:42 am
Copper head snakes? Interesting. Is that a common thing or rare? I will often say I want to live in a warm weather snake but I do admit that I wouldn't want to deal with poisonous spiders in the house or poisonous snakes in the yard.
I'm not a big fan of snakes myself but am not concerned about copper heads as they're pretty docile and few and far between. I've ran over them on my bike before (accidentally) and they didn't seem to care (but I didn't stick around to really find out).
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Sandtrap »

muffins14 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:54 pm
IMO wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:09 pm High's in low 30's (and it's just November) seems as miserable to me as high's at 112 degrees in the summer, but well ignore that what's worse is you can't drive 2 hrs away and get in warm weather to escape the cold.

Like you said, it's all about what you make of it. Very personal stuff with many many factors to consider.
Everything is a trade off, right? For example coats and hats work great, and I’ll gladly accept coats and hats for 4 months in exchange for the other things I perceive as advantages in my location. As a small example, living in San Francisco was not great for me because after 5pm it always felt cold to me even in august to September so dining outdoors was unpleasant. In NYC, drinks,dining, picnics and parties outside with friends from May through October is one of my favorite things.

I think it’s best to think about your prioritization framework for your goals and lifestyle, and then also realize nothing has to be permanent. You can try something for a couple years and move on
Great points
Well said

Thanks!
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Sandtrap »

HomerJ wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:35 am
ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:35 am Another thing to consider is amount of sunlight in the winter. When I lived in the Northeast, I didn't like how it got dark so early in the dead of winter.
Yes, I think the sunlight and constant blue skies in Phoenix really do give one a boost psychologically.
This is one of the biggest reasons why we chose Prescott AZ over other locations to retire.

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JoMoney
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by JoMoney »

Haven't read comments past the first page.

I would want to live near family, friends, work and/or areas central to the hobbies I do frequently.
Secondary to those would be climate/weather, and taxes/cost of living.
I imagine at an older age or if I had specific conditions, access to specific medical care facilities might rank on there.

I like visiting Las Vegas, but I wouldn't want to live there unless my job required it. It might be convenient for having family/friends visiting me there, as it is a "destination city" and has a nice airport as a hub for travel.
On the down-side, Vegas is a real desert, not one of those with underground water springs and unique desert life, nothing is supposed to live there :twisted:
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twh
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by twh »

Looks like my post got deleted due to adding my own commentary on the politics of the state.

I'll repost and leave my commentary out out, except to say one should not underestimate the compatibility of your own politics to where you are thinking of going.

No area compares to silicon valley when it comes to tech jobs. None. You just drive around and there are companies you've seen or heard of around every corner. The synergy that exists in silicon valley is unmatched. Yes, the cost of living is higher, but you get what you pay for. There are a lot of smart, educated people there working on all manner of things and new things come of it all the time. The weather is nice, the ocean is nearby, the mountains are nearby. You can live by the ocean and commute - the morning commute is easy, evening not as easy, but not bad.

Seattle is decent all around.

All other cities are way down the list. That doesn't mean there are things there, but they are magnitudes less. That also means less portability and less synergy.

Some of the cities mentioned are hot and hotter. Some are cold and dreary in the winter. Some may have water supply issues in the near future.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Kellerreiss »

Are we allowed to post addresses of other blog sites? For info re: chicago downtown, near north and north-side neighborhoods, I'd recommend reading CWBchicago blog for a couple weeks, and then decide if it stays on list.

And yes, life-long Chicago resident.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by JackoC »

muffins14 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:28 pm Obviously crime differs neighborhood by neighborhood and group to group. I’m sure Chicago is safe for a boglehead.
The first is certainly true and second could be. The general assumption here is upper middle class 'mainstream', not to be defined further to avoid any feather ruffling, but there's definitely a default setting here.

I'm retired and from NY so I might move away from the NY area eventually though not in a million years to Chicago. But the idea 'it would be safe for a BH' probably generally applies to me. If for some reason I had to move to Chicago ('-land'), I'm fairly confident I could attain a reasonable degree of personal safety. But the pretty complete lack of concern I have for common crime where I live now (right next to NY) would be hard to replicate, in many or most places actually not just Chicago. Being 'safe enough' by careful choice of specific location, security systems, doorman building, when and where you go etc. is a reasonable approach if you live in a place for some other reason. But it's different than actually low concern about it. And even where you might find a specific place where you could have low concern, it's hard to know that without making the move and living there first.

But I generally find the list hard of finalist cities hard to comprehend without missing info like maybe specific job leads in those places. Otherwise it's hard to find a common thread.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by LadyGeek »

Kellerreiss wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:07 pm Are we allowed to post addresses of other blog sites?
Sure. Just make sure that the site is "family friendly". We don't want readers to unexpectedly encounter language that's above this threshold.
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sureshoe
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by sureshoe »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm I have been thinking about relocating to a large (or larger) city and have my list narrowed down to the following:

Cincinnati
Knoxville, TN
Chicago
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Madison, WI
Indianapolis

Some criteria that I am considering: tech job opportunities, dating scene, low crime, nearby biking/hiking trails, affordable housing, and good weather (I tend to prefer warmer weather although I wouldn't rule out a "colder" city if it otherwise meets my standards).

If anyone has lived in or know much about any of these cities, feel free to chime in. Thanks!
For Cincinnati, it just depends where you live, which is going to be true of most of these. As others linked, from affordability, Cincinnati is right there. Cincinnati weather is OK. Right now it's 45 and getting toward the low 30s at night. Dating scene, I think that's very tough to rate. There aren't "out the door" hiking trails, but there are some good bike trails. There are some nice hills/parks in the area within a couple hours.

Anyway, I have been in Ohio my whole life and have little incentive to think anywhere else is really much better.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

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xtracrispy1031
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by xtracrispy1031 »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:46 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:34 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:51 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:51 pm Texas probably makes the most sense (tech jobs, warm weather, affordable housing). Maybe cities like Charlotte or Atlanta might be good too.

I have thought about Charlotte. Seems like another place (like Knoxville) with warmer winters and not too hot summers.
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:51 pm It's hard to pick everything, because having good tech jobs and affordable housing often don't go together.
That does seem to be the case.
+1 on Charlotte. Pretty cool city and closer to the coast if that matters to you.
Added to the list
Summers not too hot?

Summers are scorching in CLT. Trust me, hotter isn't always better. Lived here 7 years, moved from Northeast. Didn't like the cold up there. Now realize I dislike extreme heat more than the cold. I will say October-April is quite nice.
toomanysidehustles
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm I have been thinking about relocating to a large (or larger) city and have my list narrowed down to the following:

Cincinnati
Knoxville, TN
Chicago
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Madison, WI
Indianapolis

Some criteria that I am considering: tech job opportunities, dating scene, low crime, nearby biking/hiking trails, affordable housing, and good weather (I tend to prefer warmer weather although I wouldn't rule out a "colder" city if it otherwise meets my standards).

If anyone has lived in or know much about any of these cities, feel free to chime in. Thanks!
I'd add Denver, Boise, SLC for outdoorsy types of spots and where you will potentially meet someone with your same interests. People that like to recreate tend to flock to areas with higher recreation opportunities (I moved to Denver metro from Atlanta and met my now wife here a year after I moved here)
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TierArtz
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by TierArtz »

Intel, TSMC, and perhaps others are building new semiconductor factories (multiple $10s of billions) near Phoenix - should be a safe bet, employment-wise, for the tech-oriented.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by randomguy »

carolinaman wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:34 am Knoxville hands down for me. You mentioned hiking and outdoors stuff. The Great Smoky Mountains are nearby. Climate is moderate, not too cold in winter and summers are not too bad as far as Southern cities are concerned.

As others have said, these cities are so different. It would help if we had a more complete list of your criteria for selecting a city.
Knoxville summers are brutal with the combo of high heat and humidity. There are worse places but most people I knew basically avoided going out between 11-4pm all summer long. The allergy situation is also pretty bad. Crime isn't horrible but it also isn't super safe. It might be my top choice from that list but it will all come down to how you prefer the downsides. Madison is nicer in the summer but worse in the winter. You need to decide what you prefer. I can put on a jacket and go running in 15 degree weather no problem. When it is 95 with 75% humitdy, you die. You end up getting up a 6am to try and not suffer from heat stroke. There are very few places that have good weather year round in the US. And your size range is pretty huge Chicago is a much bigger city than a place like knoxville or madision.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by z91 »

1, 2, 5, 3, 4, 6, 7
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Bungo »

randomguy wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:51 pm And your size range is pretty huge Chicago is a much bigger city than a place like knoxville or madision.
Indeed, big enough to have significant variation in weather, including temperature differences as large as 10 degrees Fahrenheit, depending on how close to Lake Michigan you are (closer to the lake = somewhat more moderate temperatures on average in both summer and winter).
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by wfrobinette »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:51 pm Texas probably makes the most sense (tech jobs, warm weather, affordable housing). Maybe cities like Charlotte or Atlanta might be good too.

It's hard to pick everything, because having good tech jobs and affordable housing often don't go together.
I 2nd Charlotte area. Been here 3.5 years and there is plenty of tech around.

Can't comment on the dating scene
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Valuethinker »

TierArtz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:29 pm Intel, TSMC, and perhaps others are building new semiconductor factories (multiple $10s of billions) near Phoenix - should be a safe bet, employment-wise, for the tech-oriented.
Very specialised stuff - semiconductors. And those Fabs will themselves be relatively small employers (I am guessing a $10bn fab is mabye 2-3k employees, including the security, kitchen staff etc?). So if you have a PhD in the right branch of materials science or semiconductor engineering, then yes.

I wouldn't compare that to say software jobs.

I
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by phinanciallyfit »

You mentioned that you have visited Phoenix, but it wasn't clear how much time you spent there (maybe I did not read closely enough.) They have temperatures over 95 degrees nearly half of the year. I'd consider that warm rather than hot. I lived in Arizona for 9 years when I was younger and 25-30 years ago my parents were paying about $500/month to keep the air conditioning at 80 degrees in summer months (2700 sq ft house).... there are more 95+ days there now then there was then and of course $500 in the 90's is not the same as $500 now.

I'd echo the recommendation of SLC. It does get snow, but the winters aren't really bad and there is a good amount of sun there too.

Weather-wise, I'd consider Albuquerque or Santa Fe, though they aren't quite as good for jobs unless you are an engineer or physicist interest in one of the national labs. Albuquerque's weather is great year round. Winters are cooler than Phoenix's but with the strong sun 50-60 degrees feels pretty nice. Summers still get warm at times (~100 degrees), but even on those days the nights and mornings are extremely comfortable. Santa Fe is maybe about 10 degrees cooler than Albuquerque, but has more of an arts scene and better access to skiing.

Of the ones you listed and your desire for warm weather, I'd probably pick Knoxville.
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HomerJ
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by HomerJ »

phinanciallyfit wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:02 pm You mentioned that you have visited Phoenix, but it wasn't clear how much time you spent there (maybe I did not read closely enough.) They have temperatures over 95 degrees nearly half of the year. I'd consider that warm rather than hot. I lived in Arizona for 9 years when I was younger and 25-30 years ago my parents were paying about $500/month to keep the air conditioning at 80 degrees in summer months (2700 sq ft house).... there are more 95+ days there now then there was then and of course $500 in the 90's is not the same as $500 now.
Just for an extra data point, I'm living in Phoenix now, and 95 here feels like 80 everywhere else. Dry heat is real. Yes, if you stand in the direct sunlight you get hot. If you are outside in the shade, even if the thermometer says 95, you are completely comfortable. Not even sweating. Even though it's technically 95 outside.

110+ is where it starts getting uncomfortable.

Also, maybe houses are built better now? Living in a 2018 house, one floor, 2300 sq foot house, our electricity bills topped out at $250 in July and August, with the house at 77. And that's $250 in 2021 dollars... :)

And in the winter, our electricity bills are in the sub $100 range.

I want to get solar, but the bills are currently so cheap it doesn't even make financial sense in Phoenix of all places.
Weather-wise, I'd consider Albuquerque or Santa Fe, though they aren't quite as good for jobs unless you are an engineer or physicist interest in one of the national labs. Albuquerque's weather is great year round. Winters are cooler than Phoenix's but with the strong sun 50-60 degrees feels pretty nice. Summers still get warm at times (~100 degrees), but even on those days the nights and mornings are extremely comfortable. Santa Fe is maybe about 10 degrees cooler than Albuquerque, but has more of an arts scene and better access to skiing.
I've heard great things about Albuquerque and Sante Fe as well.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by stoptothink »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:09 pm
phinanciallyfit wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:02 pm You mentioned that you have visited Phoenix, but it wasn't clear how much time you spent there (maybe I did not read closely enough.) They have temperatures over 95 degrees nearly half of the year. I'd consider that warm rather than hot. I lived in Arizona for 9 years when I was younger and 25-30 years ago my parents were paying about $500/month to keep the air conditioning at 80 degrees in summer months (2700 sq ft house).... there are more 95+ days there now then there was then and of course $500 in the 90's is not the same as $500 now.
Just for an extra data point, I'm living in Phoenix now, and 95 here feels like 80 everywhere else. Dry heat is real. Yes, if you stand in the direct sunlight you get hot. If you are outside in the shade, even if the thermometer says 95, you are completely comfortable. Not even sweating. Even though it's technically 95 outside.

110+ is where it starts getting uncomfortable.

Also, maybe houses are built better now? Living in a 2018 house, one floor, 2300 sq foot house, our electricity bills topped out at $250 in July and August, with the house at 77. And that's $250 in 2021 dollars... :)

And in the winter, our electricity bills are in the sub $100 range.

I want to get solar, but the bills are currently so cheap it doesn't even make financial sense in Phoenix of all places.
Weather-wise, I'd consider Albuquerque or Santa Fe, though they aren't quite as good for jobs unless you are an engineer or physicist interest in one of the national labs. Albuquerque's weather is great year round. Winters are cooler than Phoenix's but with the strong sun 50-60 degrees feels pretty nice. Summers still get warm at times (~100 degrees), but even on those days the nights and mornings are extremely comfortable. Santa Fe is maybe about 10 degrees cooler than Albuquerque, but has more of an arts scene and better access to skiing.
I've heard great things about Albuquerque and Sante Fe as well.
I spent 2yrs in Mesa and bike commuted the entire time. 105 in the Arizona dry heat is nothing. Due to the humidity, Houston (where I was for 5yrs) is way more uncomfortable at 90 than Mesa was at 105+.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by phinanciallyfit »

Lol, my child and husband start complaining at around 70 degrees (in dry heat). As someone who grew up in the Phoenix area, I am much more tolerant of heat, but it is clearly something that varies from person to person.

Neither of then wear even a light jacket unless it is in the 40s (or lower) and cloudy/dark. 30s if sunny
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by sil2017 »

MJS wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:31 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm Phoenix
Las Vegas
... , nearby biking/hiking trails, affordable housing, and good weather (I tend to prefer warmer weather although I wouldn't rule out a "colder" city if it otherwise meets my standards).
Are you a morning person, rising before the sun during the summertime? Is 4am a wonderful time for you? From mid-April to mid-October, outdoor exercertion happens between 4am-9am. If the day begins for you at 10am, avoid these two cities.

But - lovely sunrises, lots of critters still roaming the washes and trails, and soft warm air - it is a truly beautiful time to be out.

I moved from Southern CA to Henderson /Las Vegas about a year ago.....I am planning to leave as soon as my lease expires.
Las Vegas/Henderson:
Even in the Winter months, my skin is dried out even indoors.
The heat is unbearable in the months from June to September..I could only go outside before 6 am.
There is also the occasional heavy winds and it will affect you if prone to allergies
AC cost for a 1500 square feet house can be as high as $300 per month between June and September. Auto insurance rate is high due to 24 hour casinos opening and drinking.
Rent and housing has gone up by at least 20 percent.
on the positive side , there are very friendly people here
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by jbreittling »

wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm
Some criteria that I am considering: tech job opportunities, dating scene, low crime, nearby biking/hiking trails, affordable housing, and good weather (I tend to prefer warmer weather although I wouldn't rule out a "colder" city if it otherwise meets my standards).
I'd remove Las Vegas and Phoenix from your list if you are looking for affordable housing.
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by Valuethinker »

sil2017 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:31 am
I moved from Southern CA to Henderson /Las Vegas about a year ago.....I am planning to leave as soon as my lease expires.
This is such an excellent example of the principle of renting, not buying, for at least a year, when moving to a new city/ geography.

If you had bought, and the housing crash had happened (and Las Vegas was an epicenter of same), then you could have been stuck for years.
Las Vegas/Henderson:
Even in the Winter months, my skin is dried out even indoors.
The heat is unbearable in the months from June to September..I could only go outside before 6 am.
There is also the occasional heavy winds and it will affect you if prone to allergies
AC cost for a 1500 square feet house can be as high as $300 per month between June and September. Auto insurance rate is high due to 24 hour casinos opening and drinking.
Rent and housing has gone up by at least 20 percent.
on the positive side , there are very friendly people here
It would worry me to live in a city which is inherently just a desert, with no natural water supply**. Granted my city (London) has its own water problems -- because there's plenty around, we don't store it. But the pattern of recent years is longer dry periods (to the point of drought; they were talking of a "Day Zero" solution a la Cape Town, of just turning the water off - and these crises happen more and more frequently) and more extreme wet periods (record downpours). And of course there is no consciousness of water use behaviour - the British default is that "the weather is terrible, it's always raining" even when it is not, in fact, raining much (the north and west of the country in England, Wales & Scotland tend to get a lot of rain). So we waste the stuff (a leaky 19th c piping system does not help).

LV has, however, made great strides in reducing water use.


** I don't live in Los Angeles, either, ofc. So maybe I just need to get used to these entirely artificial environments. But... green lawns? Seriously?
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Re: How would you rate the following cities?

Post by sippyCUP »

I'll put in my input for Knoxville. I'm a area lifelong resident, with a summer spent in Chicago, a few months in Manhattan, and about 3 years outside Seattle, so I have some perspective on some of the other areas you mentioned.

Knoxville has some strong points:
  • Outdoors opportunites. Regarding hiking, it's not just the Smokies, but ample state parks and local trails as well. I used to drive 15m to a really great hilly mountain biking trail and have another set of trails 10m from my current house. I have tens of miles of trails literally in my backyard (look at Oak Ridge and South Knoxville for trails in/abutting residential areas)
  • More outdoor stuff - lake activities like boating, kayaking/canoing, very highly ranked bass fishing at Watts Bar Lake, deer hunting, waterfowl hunting (sort of, resident geese)
  • Relatively lower cost of real estate, although it has gone up considerably the past couple years as in most US locales
  • Many good restaurants in the Knoxville area. It's kind of the main activity around here if you don't do outdoor stuff.
  • Nightlife is decent, with enough good walkable breweries/bars/coffee shops/restaurants downtown. This fact assists your dating criterion. I was just in Asheville, NC on Saturday though and its nightlife wins I must say (2 hour drive). PM me for more detail on dating if desired.
.
  • If you want to do more "big city" stuff one weekend, ATL and Nashville are both about 3 hours away.
  • Dating - University of Tennessee is here, not sure what age bracket you're in but that's a consideration. UT football also.
    • Traffic is quite fair.
    • People are generally friendly
    Cons:
    • You really gotta figure out how you're going to make money here, especially following the RE runup. For an IT guy, look at the major contractors/sites in nearby Oak Ridge, as well as some of the larger companies in town. I really don't know how competitive they are, but if you're going to make Knoxville work, I would say you need to line up your income first, because the salaries are likely not going to match the major cities on your list. Of course if you can do WFH, then you might be able to secure a high salary and enjoy a LCOL in Knoxville. Fair number of federal entities in the area, use www.USAjobs.gov to scope out your opportunities there.
    • You have to make a personal decision regarding your compatibility with local/regional politics. I avoid the subject generally and do just fine.
    • It gets hot/humid in the summers sometimes but honestly it's not that bad in my opinion. Good time to hit the lake or stay indoors in the AC.
    • Crime is heavily neighborhood dependent. Never been a concern for me.

    Many will suggest you look at Nashville. I don't spend much time there, but it's definitely bigger than Knoxville with more to do culturally. You will be facing higher traffic and more like MCOL compared to the Knoxville area. But check it out if you think you might be interested, maybe a better dating life there.
    FandangoDave5010
    Posts: 239
    Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:34 pm

    Re: How would you rate the following cities?

    Post by FandangoDave5010 »

    People in high tech must know something about the Reno-Tahoe area. Median price for a house in Reno has just moved up to 570K. Near my location in South Reno, new construction is starting at 700K. Ten new bars and restaurants have just opened up in the mid-town area and resort apartments are going up like crazy. Reno is a SF Bay Area/Silicon Valley/Sacramento secret because you have to drive over The Hill (Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada Mountains) and carry snow chains to get here at this time of the year.

    Water is not a problem when Sierra snow melt is no longer sent to the desert to grow hay for cows. And forest fires will abate when gun enthusiasts stop target practicing in the wood, PG&E fix there poles and trim trees around transmission wires. Also, when the US Forest Service "rakes" the forests and get rid of all the dead wood.

    Not an "ad" for Reno. We prefer that outsiders move to Vegas, Henderson or Boise so that we can remain a nice second or third tier city. Something to consider, however, surprisingly nice.
    Bungo
    Posts: 1138
    Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:28 am

    Re: How would you rate the following cities?

    Post by Bungo »

    Valuethinker wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:36 am ** I don't live in Los Angeles, either, ofc. So maybe I just need to get used to these entirely artificial environments. But... green lawns? Seriously?
    I don't necessarily disagree, but is it really all that different living in a desert city that has to import water to survive, vs. living in a cold-weather climate that has to import fuel to burn in the winter to survive? Or, to a lesser extent, a hot-weather climate that has to import fuel to generate electricity for AC in the summer to avoid misery? Seems to me there are relatively few locations on earth that are "self sufficient" in this regard.
    IMO
    Posts: 1569
    Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 6:01 pm

    Re: How would you rate the following cities?

    Post by IMO »

    sil2017 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:31 am
    MJS wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:31 pm
    wojo8625 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm Phoenix
    Las Vegas
    ... , nearby biking/hiking trails, affordable housing, and good weather (I tend to prefer warmer weather although I wouldn't rule out a "colder" city if it otherwise meets my standards).
    Are you a morning person, rising before the sun during the summertime? Is 4am a wonderful time for you? From mid-April to mid-October, outdoor exercertion happens between 4am-9am. If the day begins for you at 10am, avoid these two cities.

    But - lovely sunrises, lots of critters still roaming the washes and trails, and soft warm air - it is a truly beautiful time to be out.

    I moved from Southern CA to Henderson /Las Vegas about a year ago.....I am planning to leave as soon as my lease expires.
    Las Vegas/Henderson:
    Even in the Winter months, my skin is dried out even indoors.
    The heat is unbearable in the months from June to September..I could only go outside before 6 am.
    There is also the occasional heavy winds and it will affect you if prone to allergies
    AC cost for a 1500 square feet house can be as high as $300 per month between June and September. Auto insurance rate is high due to 24 hour casinos opening and drinking.
    Rent and housing has gone up by at least 20 percent.
    on the positive side , there are very friendly people here
    Having grown up in SoCal and moved to areas that include both "mild" winters and brutal summer heat (Phoenix), ultimately almost everywhere outside of SoCal essentially involves a weather compromise. I always stress this to family/friends that have shown interest in other less expensive areas of the country.

    Summers in places like Phoenix/Vegas aren't to be sugar coated because they give one the literal feeling of walking into the oven. If you don't have activities to help compromise the heat, then you can feel trapped indoors for 3 months. On the other side of the coin, even what people term "mild" winters are something I warn SoCal people about. It's the opposite, mornings getting well below freezing, melted ice slicks on your north facing driveways that linger even if the sun is shining and the weather is above the actual freezing mark. I thought the snow was a novelty at 1st, but after a number of years and as you get older, it's the same thing, unless you partake in activities to help compromise the cold, you can feel trapped indoors for 3 months.

    As has been posted on other threads, for the most part taxes are higher in California for one's working years, but that's often accounted for in salaries that are accordingly higher. When it comes to retirement, I advise people don't underestimate the low retirement tax burden of living in a state like California, which is also helped by Prop 13 (and I think now 19).

    What is actionable on this for OP? If your relocating, realize everything is a compromise. Be it weather, taxes, location from one's family, job opportunities and often salaries among the many many factors. To complicate things further, those factors often change as time goes on (moderate cities get more congested, family situations can change (aging sicker parents/kids being away from extended family). etc.


    So here's a couple California small town ideas: Big Bear which has multiple ski resorts and summer activities and a reasonable drive gets you to Ontario/LAX as needed. Mammoth Lakes. One of best all round mountain in the country and great summer activities. Both smaller towns, but especially with Mammoth, hard not to enjoy the lifestyle. The real downside especially Big Bear is the weekend crowds. But avoid weekends and both locations give you uncrowded weekday skiing.


    Personally, I do think raising one's family in communities that are under 100K are really a nice/different experience. There typically is much more "community" and people tend to run into others they know/people know other's and it makes for a more unique situation. If you have that opportunity with work (or not needing to work in OP situation then it is something to consider for a quality of life situation.

    I think someone mentioned Bend, OR. I've always thought that is a really great type size of city that has the outdoor things OP is looking at including skiing and great mountain biking and a fun city center that in the summer has the added advantage of a great river running through the middle of town. While it's not on the coast, it seems to be located in an area that while it is surrounded by forests, unlike some other areas it seems like it west enough to not be overrun by summer forest smoke. Not that it doesn't get smoke, but it seems like with the prevailing winds coming off the coast and going east it is somewhat shielded (having flown out to Portland and driving to bend this horrible summer forest fire season in NoCal it just wasn't overrun with smoke). Every time I go to Bend, I fantasize about relocating there.

    It definitely has a feel of a town like Flagstaff which is another favorite. While it is also surrounded by forests, it has the advantage of summer monsoons which significantly lessen the issue with summer smoke. Has skiing and great mountain biking.

    Santa Fe's a great outdoor town, but it would require private schooling. That's not necessarily the worst thing and contrary to general belief, housing there is much more affordable relative to many other areas. It's also a great summer location for things like mt biking and it gets air cleaning monsoons regularly in the summer.

    Another really interesting option is living in Park City, UT. Obviously lots of great skiing options and the mountain biking is great there. It seems to be at a high enough elevation to be above winter smoke inversions in Salt Lake City. It also has a much much different vibe than living in Salt Lake City from what I've been told. What's really cool is that I also have heard the school kids actually don't go to to school in winter (so they can ski) and they go to school instead in summer (which due to long days gives much to do after school). It's about 30-40 minutes and your at a great airport. Summer/winter hard not to have a good time there.

    There are great small towns like Fraser/Winter Park and Durango, CO and really really cool towns like Telluride and Crested Butte. Great places to raise a family, especially if your not limited by job issues. These areas also get summer monsoons. The latter couple are really dream locations to live.

    Someone mentioned Bellingham, WA which I thought was a great small town. Easy drive up to Whistler/Blackcomb is one tires of Mt Baker.
    We've had some friends speak highly of living in Spokane, WA.

    I've kinda hinted about something that is greatly overlooked by many and that is air quality. Having horrible air quality in the summer is a real detriment to summer activities. Look into that carefully where you consider moving.

    For example, I had some trips out to what I also think is a great town called El Dorado Hills east of Sacramento, CA. Nice local lake we boated and a close drive to South Lake area (Sierra at Tahoe is very reasonable drive), a nice local lake and good schools. I didn't think it was that hot in mid summer (golfed in shorts, seemed fine to me). It's up there on my California sites outside of San Diego especially for tech hybrid job options. It's west of North Lake Tahoe. What I've learned on a couple trips there where we went up to Tahoe is that summer air can really really suck in the Lake Tahoe/Reno area. One recent trip out we drove up to Lake Tahoe and the summer smoke was like a thick dense smog that blacked out the mid summer sun. This was surprising to me, but my friend said it's all about the west winds that keep things reasonable where he lived vs. just a short drive away to Lake Tahoe. Says that's pretty common, but it varies year to year pending what is or isn't burning.

    OP, anyhow, best of luck on your search. Always tough and no right/wrong answer and everything has some compromises.
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