Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

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five2one
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Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by five2one »

Planning to retire from the military (Army, Lieutenant Colonel) in next couple years and planning my exit strategy. I’m 43 and my window opens next September which gives me at least 23 years but I can wait another 10 years before forced out.

The Army will help my transition by stationing me in the region I plan to retire and positioned to work as a civilian. Also, I get one fully paid move after I retire BUT can save that move for several years AFTER retirement. My branch is Field Artillery which doesn’t directly translate to civilian equivalent outside defense industry. While I have a personal affinity for finance, I have very little interest in being a CFP or insurance agent (another common recommendation). Another field is IT given some assignments designing, mastering the systems, and then teaching senior leaders (General Officers down to brand new Soldiers) how to “operationalize” or employ the various mission computers to support planning, operations, and decision making. However, I have ZERO interest is being a SYS Admin.

I’m a hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail but I loathe being inside a cube farm or reading spreadsheets all day. Business development has also been recommended to me given my personality and how quickly I build relationships but I couldn’t tell you much else beyond standard google search. However, I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.

I’ve thought about starting in defense sector with a company that has a large non-defense portfolio so I can eventually transition in normal business environment as business knowledge increases. Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability. I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years. I prefer salary primarily for budgeting but aware that compensation takes many forms. My absolute floor is $80k or I may as well go govt job; I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.

Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.

While our family is primarily south east and personally we LOVE west coast mountains and beach the politics and cost of living keep us away. If forced, I’ll choose income over location if all other factors are same. The income is based on medium cost of living area and don’t mind travel but I’ll refuse anything not first world country and recognize business travel sucks with age.

Assignments include working with all services with past few years spent working primarily with very senior (3/4 * generals and their staffs and I have active TS/SCI security clearance. My undergrad is from Virginia Military Institute (2.7 history) and masters is Central Michigan University (3.9 management/admin) with masters thesis being a business plan case stuff for small business in Kansas City area.

So, all that said, I’d appreciate insight on region and career recommendations to explore.

Thanks!
GuyInFL
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by GuyInFL »

FL, TN, and GA all have excellent college scholarships for B and above students funded by the lottery.

https://www.floridastudentfinancialaids ... /SAPBFMAIN

https://gsfc.georgia.gov/hope
Https://www.tn.gov/collegepays/money-fo ... rship.html

It's just one data point.
carolinaman
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by carolinaman »

NC and SC are great places to raise a family. Good climate, excellent state universities and excellent growing business climate. As you probably know, there are a number of military bases in these states which might help you transition to the private sector. Charlotte and Raleigh are 2 of the fastest growing major cities with lots of job opportunities, and are MCOL as is the rest of the 2 states.

Thanks for your service and best wishes for your transition.
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vanbogle59
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by vanbogle59 »

five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, ...
"my health is relatively good" - LOL. Sir, you will make an excellent civilian!

I live in Tampa. One of my dear friends is a "retired" Marine, who spent the next 20 years of his life teaching HS ROTC. He still has that gleam in his eye. Sounds like you do to. Best of luck.

:beer
jpelder
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by jpelder »

I'm a high school teacher. Our head JROTC instructor is a retired LtCol from the Field Artillery. ROTC instructors continue to be paid at their highest paygrade. Not sure if teaching is something that interest you, but it's a great opportunity to put all of your military experience to work.

The Charlotte area is a fun place to live. 2 hours to the mountains, 3 to the beach. If you want some rural/suburban life, the surrounding counties (Cabarrus, Gaston, Iredell, and Union) have it
Ramjet
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Ramjet »

Have you considered Telosa?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telosa
daheld
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by daheld »

Consider administrative positions within the Department of Veterans Affairs. VA consists of VHA, VBA and NCA (Veterans Health Administration, Benefits Administration, and National Cemetery Administration). There are likely plenty of jobs that would need your finance knowledge. GS-13 through GS-15 potential, or even Senior Executive level potential. VA obviously hires a lot of Veterans. Virtually unlimited location potential.
mr_brightside
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by mr_brightside »

one thing to consider is the effect of taxes on your future civilian earnings vs some of your military pay

as you know a decent percentage of your military pay is untaxed. so you should consider the effect of 'more' taxes impacting your 'net pay'.

i wish you luck -- I did 7 years Active Duty in some decent units (82nd / 25th ID) and the adjustment to civilian life / work is a process.

you can get it figured out -- but it won't be the same. :beer

--------------------------
dukeblue219
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by dukeblue219 »

carolinaman wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:13 am NC and SC are great places to raise a family. Good climate,
Yeah, spent the first 18 years of my life in SC. Never thought to call it a great climate. It's the hottest, most humid place on the planet and it's consistently so all spring, summer, and fall.

If you like ambient temperatures of 90 by 11 AM and heat indices of 105 on a normal summer day, yeah, it's great :D
Valuethinker
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Valuethinker »

five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Planning to retire from the military (Army, Lieutenant Colonel) in next couple years and planning my exit strategy. I’m 43 and my window opens next September which gives me at least 23 years but I can wait another 10 years before forced out.

The Army will help my transition by stationing me in the region I plan to retire and positioned to work as a civilian. Also, I get one fully paid move after I retire BUT can save that move for several years AFTER retirement. My branch is Field Artillery which doesn’t directly translate to civilian equivalent outside defense industry. While I have a personal affinity for finance, I have very little interest in being a CFP or insurance agent (another common recommendation). Another field is IT given some assignments designing, mastering the systems, and then teaching senior leaders (General Officers down to brand new Soldiers) how to “operationalize” or employ the various mission computers to support planning, operations, and decision making. However, I have ZERO interest is being a SYS Admin.

I’m a hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail but I loathe being inside a cube farm or reading spreadsheets all day. Business development has also been recommended to me given my personality and how quickly I build relationships but I couldn’t tell you much else beyond standard google search. However, I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.

I’ve thought about starting in defense sector with a company that has a large non-defense portfolio so I can eventually transition in normal business environment as business knowledge increases. Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability. I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years. I prefer salary primarily for budgeting but aware that compensation takes many forms. My absolute floor is $80k or I may as well go govt job; I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.

Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.

While our family is primarily south east and personally we LOVE west coast mountains and beach the politics and cost of living keep us away. If forced, I’ll choose income over location if all other factors are same. The income is based on medium cost of living area and don’t mind travel but I’ll refuse anything not first world country and recognize business travel sucks with age.

Assignments include working with all services with past few years spent working primarily with very senior (3/4 * generals and their staffs and I have active TS/SCI security clearance. My undergrad is from Virginia Military Institute (2.7 history) and masters is Central Michigan University (3.9 management/admin) with masters thesis being a business plan case stuff for small business in Kansas City area.

So, all that said, I’d appreciate insight on region and career recommendations to explore.

Thanks!
There are career aptitude tests -- are some of those available to you?

Logistics was an area that struck me - something military people are all familiar with. Healthcare is probably the largest employer in the USA these days? So that again is an industry to consider.

I suspect where you live may follow the job. The reason so many of us live in big cities is because that's where a variety of jobs are. If one wants higher remuneration, one has to go where the jobs are. (Doctors might be an exception - needed everywhere, and highly paid compared to most other jobs).

So if financial services (securities industry) it will be New York. Information technology is everywhere but the big name companies are mostly HQ'd in SF Bay area *or* Seattle, I believe.

Oil & gas it would be Houston or DFW, primarily, I believe. Unless you actually work on the rigs out in the field.

Defence contractors would be all over, but the consulting side seems to be very centred in greater Washington DC (for obvious reasons).

Atlanta would be an example of a city with a highly diversified employment base (often revolving around the airport, I believe). Charlotte NC is smaller but has a strong local economic base, I understand.

Of course that doesn't make these places easy to live in. Traffic in particular - commuting time. Cost of living.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
almostretired1965
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by almostretired1965 »

Nothing quite beats NoVa for government contracting, particularly in defense/IC. With an active TS/SCI ticket w/ CI or full scope poly you would be golden. I don't think it would be too hard to land something that will pay you $150K or more. Public schools in all of the nearby suburbs are among the best in the country, including arguably the best selective stem HS assuming your kids can get in. The only drawback is that weather is not great compared to places out west and the cost of living is high, but that is also why your salary will be high......
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Shackleton
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Shackleton »

Colorado Springs, CO. The major DOD contractors (Honeywell, L3, etc) have huge operations there. Lots of great outdoor activities. Very mild winters for CO (the Springs is often 10 degrees warmer than Denver, and gets less snow.) Prices have increased but no where near Denver levels. I know several people that have transitioned from Army and USAF at your level or higher to DOD contractor jobs and are very happy. Pay is usually in the $150k+/yr range with great benefits.
“Superhuman effort isn't worth a damn unless it achieves results.” ~Ernest Shackleton
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quantAndHold
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by quantAndHold »

“I don’t have any transferable skills, there’s a bunch of stuff I don’t want to do, and I don’t want to live in the place where salaries are highest or public colleges are best, but I want to make $150-250k within 10 years and send my kids to good colleges.”

The defense industry is full of people like you. You could probably get to $150k in the defense industry pretty quickly (although $250k probably won’t happen). At least at first, you’ll probably need to be a subject matter expert in something related to your service. Cubicles will definitely be involved. Defense work is distributed throughout the country. You should do some research on what technologies are located where, and narrow down your search to those regions. Northern Virginia is always a possibility, too.

Outside of government or defense, nobody is going to have much interest in your military background, and most people don’t transition in and out of the defense industry very easily. So you’ll need to develop some actual industry skills to make the money you desire in the non defense corporate world.
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Watty
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Watty »

GuyInFL wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:58 am FL, TN, and GA all have excellent college scholarships for B and above students funded by the lottery.

https://www.floridastudentfinancialaids ... /SAPBFMAIN

https://gsfc.georgia.gov/hope
Https://www.tn.gov/collegepays/money-fo ... rship.html

It's just one data point.
I was also going to mention the Georgia Hope Scholarship, but a high percentage of students are not able to keep up the required GPA for the full four years so take that with a grain of salt.

Once you are 65 Georgia has a retirement income exclusion so you do not pay state income tax on the first $65K($130K for a couple) of retirement income(basically everything but wages if you are still working.) That is in addition to not taxing Social Security. Florida and some other states do not have a state income tax. Moving to a low tax state can have a lot of advantages but you also need to look at things like sales tax and property tax to get the big picture.

If I was looking for a place to retire to I would take a hard look at college towns. Often they are not too big and they have a lot going on compared to similar towns their size. Many college town will also have good healthcare available which will be very important if you stay there when you are older.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.
Be careful about moving to some place where the housing cost is very high.

I have lived in areas where housing was very expensive and I have seen coworkers who had grown up kids that were well into their 20s who were still living with them because they did not have high paying jobs and could not afford an apartment even with roomates. That was not always a good situation.

In contrast I have moved around and I am in Atlanta now where you can buy a nice house with good schools out in the suburbs for the $300s or even less with some compromises. Housing downtown or in some prime areas can be a lot more expensive.

My son is doing well in his career and he was easily able to afford to buy a nice house about 10 minutes from us which is especially nice since that means that we frequently get to see our grandkids. Virtually all of his high school and college classmates were able to buy houses when they were in their 20s. We also have some friends who have a son who is severely dyslexic and barely graduated from high school. At one point he was working in a chain muffler shop which is a good honest job but I am sure that it did not pay a lot. Even with his income he was able to buy a small older house in a marginal but not terrible neighborhood.

I am not saying that you should move to Atlanta since it has lots of pros and cons but housing costs in probably 80% of the country is more like this.

When picking out a place to live keep in mind that your oldest who is 12 now may be graduating college in 10 years and may still want to live near you. In whatever area you move to try to picture what it will be like for your kids if they live there when they grow up.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.
You also have a very limited amount of time until your kids are grown up and move out. Be careful of sacrificing that time for your next career. There is also no telling just how long your health will hold out.

There is a supposedly true story by Kurt Vonnegut
True story, Word of Honor:
Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead,
and I were at a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island.
I said, "Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel 'Catch-22' has earned in its entire history?"
And Joe said, "I've got something he can never have."
And I said, "What on earth could that be, Joe?"
And Joe said, "The knowledge that I've got enough."
Not bad! Rest in peace!
Maverick3320
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Maverick3320 »

quantAndHold wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:06 am “I don’t have any transferable skills, there’s a bunch of stuff I don’t want to do, and I don’t want to live in the place where salaries are highest or public colleges are best, but I want to make $150-250k within 10 years and send my kids to good colleges.”

The defense industry is full of people like you. You could probably get to $150k in the defense industry pretty quickly (although $250k probably won’t happen). At least at first, you’ll probably need to be a subject matter expert in something related to your service. Cubicles will definitely be involved. Defense work is distributed throughout the country. You should do some research on what technologies are located where, and narrow down your search to those regions. Northern Virginia is always a possibility, too.

Outside of government or defense, nobody is going to have much interest in your military background, and most people don’t transition in and out of the defense industry very easily. So you’ll need to develop some actual industry skills to make the money you desire in the non defense corporate world.
I thought the same thing. It seems like a lot of field grade officers coming off active or about to retire have the same sentiments. Odd to hear military folks say things like that - I don't have W, I won't do X or live in Y, but I demand Z compensation. With all those requirements most folks are looking at a cubicle in defense contractor land, which means 4-5 areas in the US, primarily DC. Whatever you do, just please don't be one of those contractors that has no IT skills but then walks in here in a fisherman's shirt, coffee cup, tennis shoes, a tan baseball hat with a tan US flag and tactical tan pants and then tries to tell me (in between war stories, of course) that IPPS-A is the future and it's not the system that is failing, it's operator failure. Or worse, and I think you already mentioned this, for the love of god don't become the maneuver guy that becomes a financial advisor and reaches out to me twice a year on LinkedIn to see if I'm interested in financial advice. I'm guessing a lot of those guys didn't think they would be peddling whole life insurance or loaded mutual funds when they decided to get out.

Semi-jokes aside, I just saw a high-achieving maneuver O5 get a job at Trek, and an O4 personnel guy get a job with state HR, but even in this economy I don't think they walked in the door demanding a corner office at 100k/year, and this is in a MCOL area. A recruiting battalion commander (O5) recently mentioned he got offered 80k/year to work in an area he is actually skilled in (corporate recruiting/HR), so I guess that's another data point.
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Taz
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Taz »

quantAndHold wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:06 am “I don’t have any transferable skills, there’s a bunch of stuff I don’t want to do, and I don’t want to live in the place where salaries are highest or public colleges are best, but I want to make $150-250k within 10 years and send my kids to good colleges.”

The defense industry is full of people like you. You could probably get to $150k in the defense industry pretty quickly (although $250k probably won’t happen). At least at first, you’ll probably need to be a subject matter expert in something related to your service. Cubicles will definitely be involved. Defense work is distributed throughout the country. You should do some research on what technologies are located where, and narrow down your search to those regions. Northern Virginia is always a possibility, too.

Outside of government or defense, nobody is going to have much interest in your military background, and most people don’t transition in and out of the defense industry very easily. So you’ll need to develop some actual industry skills to make the money you desire in the non defense corporate world.
Retired Navy O-5 here. quantAndHold is correct about the underlined above. Much of your usefulness in business development fades the longer you are out of the system & your contacts transfer away. I have retired friends who work in major DC staffs but they got into these positions as they were retiring. Your staff time & clearances are ideal if you wanted to do work for a large stateside command CinC/HQ (Tampa for example) or the myriad of defense contractors there. Not a ton of military here but Homeland Security & Customs are big. As far as schools - U of FL is a very good state school. Bright Futures Scholarship pays 75-100%t of the tuition (but not fees) if your kids are very good students.

And yes, kids grow up & leave faster than you would believe.
The destination matters. | "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't don't stop and look around once in a while - you could miss it." -- Ferris Bueller
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anon_investor
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by anon_investor »

five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Planning to retire from the military (Army, Lieutenant Colonel) in next couple years and planning my exit strategy. I’m 43 and my window opens next September which gives me at least 23 years but I can wait another 10 years before forced out.

The Army will help my transition by stationing me in the region I plan to retire and positioned to work as a civilian. Also, I get one fully paid move after I retire BUT can save that move for several years AFTER retirement. My branch is Field Artillery which doesn’t directly translate to civilian equivalent outside defense industry. While I have a personal affinity for finance, I have very little interest in being a CFP or insurance agent (another common recommendation). Another field is IT given some assignments designing, mastering the systems, and then teaching senior leaders (General Officers down to brand new Soldiers) how to “operationalize” or employ the various mission computers to support planning, operations, and decision making. However, I have ZERO interest is being a SYS Admin.

I’m a hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail but I loathe being inside a cube farm or reading spreadsheets all day. Business development has also been recommended to me given my personality and how quickly I build relationships but I couldn’t tell you much else beyond standard google search. However, I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.

I’ve thought about starting in defense sector with a company that has a large non-defense portfolio so I can eventually transition in normal business environment as business knowledge increases. Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability. I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years. I prefer salary primarily for budgeting but aware that compensation takes many forms. My absolute floor is $80k or I may as well go govt job; I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.

Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.

While our family is primarily south east and personally we LOVE west coast mountains and beach the politics and cost of living keep us away. If forced, I’ll choose income over location if all other factors are same. The income is based on medium cost of living area and don’t mind travel but I’ll refuse anything not first world country and recognize business travel sucks with age.

Assignments include working with all services with past few years spent working primarily with very senior (3/4 * generals and their staffs and I have active TS/SCI security clearance. My undergrad is from Virginia Military Institute (2.7 history) and masters is Central Michigan University (3.9 management/admin) with masters thesis being a business plan case stuff for small business in Kansas City area.

So, all that said, I’d appreciate insight on region and career recommendations to explore.

Thanks!
First, thank you for your service. A very good buddy of mine left the Army a couple of years ago and is finishing grad school next year, and his wife is leaving the Army next year. They have settled in Maryland, as they both were able to find good paying civilian jobs (one is with the Fed government and one is private sector) in the DC area. Maryland has the benefit that veterans do not pay property tax, big reason they chose to Maryland over Virginia or DC. Not sure if any of this interests you, but no property tax seems like a good enough reason to at least investigate Maryland further.
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krafty81
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by krafty81 »

34 years AD Navy for me. Retired in 2015. Work in defense now.

Some recs
- Work with good rep for your VA disability rating. You should be much higher than 30%.
- Update your clearance before you get out if you can. Much more painful on the other side.
- BD is challenging and not a long-term solution as a job. Good place to start if nothing else avail but then look to get over to the program side if possible. More upward mobility there.
- Lots of companies are letting people work from home now, so do not confine your search to just local.
- My state offers free tuition to veteran kids - a good deal. Do some research on what your state offers. States vary widely in what they tax, etc. Take all that into consideration when looking at compensation. DCR is getting expensive no matter what state you are in.
- Finally, I have learned to pay attention to job satisfaction in what you finally do. Too many of us focus on the compensation piece without looking at what you will actually be doing. The wrong fit can drain your soul...

Good luck!
srt7
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by srt7 »

A career in sales or specifically as a pre-sales engineer sounds like it will hit all your strengths and goals.

Also, at 53 (43+10) it's unlikely to be getting any software developer or systems admin jobs.

Location wise with your military background and requirements for good in-state state universities I'd stick with the mid-atlantic states.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
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calmaniac
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by calmaniac »

A little off topic, but one (small) regret I have is not having done some Roth conversions while active duty. You can take advantage of your lower salary as a commissioned officer relative to your encore career in the private sector. All of those various tax-free allowances and generally lower pay with the gov't put you in a lower tax bracket now than you will likely be in the future.

Congrats on your upcoming retirement! The world is your oyster. :beer

City & region choice is a personal decision. I can't imagine wanting to live many places where people are flocking.
"Pretired", working 20 h/wk. AA 75/25: 30% TSM, 19% value (VFVA/AVUV), 18% Int'l LC, 8% emerging, 25% GFund/VBTLX. Military pension ≈60% of expenses. Pension+SS@age 70 ≈100% of expenses.
AnotherMike
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by AnotherMike »

Check out American Corporate Partners — nonprofit that helps retiring military transition to civilian employment. Though you are years away it could help you plan now.
esqu1re
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by esqu1re »

Consider Northern Virginia or Maryland / DC metro area. Plenty of gov. contractors and 3 letter agencies, and the mountains are an hour away. Beaches are 2 to 3 hours away. High cost of living area, but the pay reflects that, even government pay. Great schools in many areas.

I'll also put in a plug for the Guard. Plenty of opportunities to jump on COVID related orders while you look for a civilian job.
tj
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by tj »

If you'll be receiving a Lt. Colonel's pension why do you care so much about how much the post-military job pays?

It seems like your military retirement income and health insurance give you the freedom to choose whatever you want to do in life without considering money.
azanon
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by azanon »

If you've got the ability to back up your self-assessment and expectations, you must be one amazing person. Certainly no run-of-the-mill Lt. Col. Why not just stay and earn General+ instead? I'm assuming you could go that high if your assessment is spot on.

Signed, lowly GS-13 Federal employee
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BolderBoy
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by BolderBoy »

Shackleton wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:45 amColorado Springs, CO.
Second this recommendation.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect
MICKFI
Posts: 16
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by MICKFI »

Congrats on being near retirement and embarking on life 2.0. I'm a retired navy O5 since 2005. I've been in corporate America since then. Some thoughts for you:

- Be careful buying a house as soon as you get out. Many, myself included, find they pick an area with the intent to put down roots only to find themselves relocating within the first 2 years. I moved 16 months after retiring for a very good opportunity that, in hindsight was critical to my corporate success and future growth. Fortunately the housing market was strong and my new company had relo and home buying assistance otherwise I would have been out closing costs.

- Pick a region to target rather than a specific city. You'll open up the opportunities more widely for potential jobs.

- Spend time working on your story. That is, write down every accomplishment you have made and translate it into the situation, what the task or problem you had to solve, what actions you took, and the results. From that start building your resume. Corporate America likes to hire veterans, but you have to bring solid people, project management, analytical, problem solving, and risk management skills to them and translate it into their language.

- Network, network, network. Starting now. That is how I have found every job post military. I have worked for three major companies since retirement, two being Big Finsvcs institutions. My skills in the military have been a perfect fit, but neither my first company nor I would have connected if it weren't for networking. A retired navy captain knew a friend of mine who connected us and I got my foot in the door and got the job. My other jobs have been through networking, recognized skills in the industry (gained from job #1), and professional reputation. During my last job interview, my prospective boss asked questions about my background and I mentioned a name and he said "I'm actually meeting with that person in the next hour, mind if I ask about you?" He did and through that network, positive reputation, and overall skills, I got the job. I saw your are a VMI grad (Rah Virginia Mil. My two sons are alum). Start with your VMI network and your military network of those that are already retired.

- Be prepared that you'll likley be doing things in your first corporate job you did as an O3, but at much higher comp. You should be able to land $150K total comp no problem. Don't sell yourself short at $80k or $100K. Aim higher. The level you take out of the gate will drive how fast you can move up. I sold myself short at company 1 and took their offer (which was about what my total O5 comp was, but once I got in the door, I realized I left at least 10% on the table). For comparison, my base comp now is 2X the current O5 base pay. If you add my cash and stock bonus it is 3X+ and doesn't include 401k matching or my military pension.

- Drop your gpa from your vocabulary and resume. No one cares. It is all about translating your military experience into corporate equivalence and demonstrating your ability to do the job.

- Determine if you want to be a government contractor or go corporate. I did the later and it was much harder to re-establish my reputation (no one cared I was a senior officer. They only care what you can do.). But I have enjoyed the challenge of corporate world and like the comp opportunity better!

- Take advantage of transition assistance programs the military offers. I took the Rhuelin course and it was excellent.

Feel free to DM anytime. Always glad to help someone make the transition from the military.

Edit: I wish I had enjoyed the time more between military and corporate career. We should have taken 6 months off to rent an RV and just enjoy time with my wife and kids. The kids were at great ages. But I was too worried about what was next. Missed opportunity. Now the kids are grown and I won't be able to get that time back with them. The lesson learned is relax, it will all be fine! Enjoy time with your family as they grow up all too fast!
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Nords
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Nords »

I see you’ve been in the forum for a few years, five2one, so let me write my advice for the other military members of the group as well as for you.

You're getting great suggestions from MickFI. I'll build on those.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Planning to retire from the military (Army, Lieutenant Colonel) in next couple years and planning my exit strategy. I’m 43 and my window opens next September which gives me at least 23 years but I can wait another 10 years before forced out.
If you haven’t already done so, you should attend the Army’s transition seminar now. There’s a tendency for... more senior... servicemembers to put that off because “we’re too busy”, but you need to start learning any uncomfortable facts now so that you won’t be unpleasantly surprised later. Take leave if you must. The senior/executive retirement version is better for your concerns & questions than the generic separation seminar, but it’s more important to take either one now.

Even better would be attending with your spouse-- you’ll both hear the same information in different ways, which will lead to more thoughtful conversations about your next phase of your lives together.

I’d also recommend the Ruehlin seminar:
https://www.ruehlinassociates.com/
If you choose to pursue a bridge career, you’ll learn a lot more from them than in the generic transition briefs.

I realize you're flexible on the timing of your transition, but you want to finish these steps on your schedule. If you get that unrefusable offer from the assignment officer then you'll be able to respond much more quickly. Let's not get into how I've learned that.

Regarding these quotes:
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am The Army will help my transition by stationing me in the region I plan to retire and positioned to work as a civilian. Also, I get one fully paid move after I retire BUT can save that move for several years AFTER retirement.
However, I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.
While our family is primarily south east and personally we LOVE west coast mountains and beach the politics and cost of living keep us away. If forced, I’ll choose income over location if all other factors are same.
I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
Your comments about location are setting you up for a challenging transition. The search happens more quickly if you choose career over location, but insisting on a certain place will complicate and prolong the process.

The best collection of lifestyle databases I know of is TheEarthAwaits.com. You might want to build your own list of 10-25 locations so that you can overlap them with the career searches and maybe even do a visit or two.

Statistically, half of all vets move a second time after their transition. This is a good thing-- it indicates that they’re succeeding in their bridge careers and that they’re much more proficient at networking to the job that they’ve learned they really want. When you’ve locked yourself into a specific location then again you’re making it more challenging for the second job search.

I might be over-interpreting your plans, but military families are frequently fooled by the myth of the forever home. This causes far more stress than the retiree’s career search, and it’s complicated by the apparent lack of employment income. Even if you plan to rent when you retire, be ready for these issues:
https://the-military-guide.com/dont-buy ... tive-duty/
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
What you’re describing is “I’m good, I don’t need any treatment because I can take care of it with my lifestyle.” I doubt that’s what you want.

Your first step is making sure the service-related connection is in your medical record and the symptoms are thoroughly documented. That’s best done right now-- even if it gets you beached or boarded-- because there’s not enough time to do this during your retirement physical.

The other reason behind “right now” is to document your need for continuing treatment. The rating criteria don’t award anything for conditions which can be handled with motrin & rest. (That’s the criteria you use to stay physically qualified and to avoid being placed on limited duty.) You're telling the VA that you're cured, and to them it means that you are not impaired in your ability to provide for your family-- so your disability rating is 0%.

You want to get referrals right now to the appropriate orthopedic surgeons (spine, knees, and ankles) as well as physical therapy. With your artillery background you might even want to visit an audiologist, although there’s no exam for tinnitus beyond your assertion of the symptoms.

I’m not suggesting that you manipulate the VA disability claim process but rather that you collect the information and education that you need now to be able to have a smooth series of Compensation & Pension exams during the claim. A side effect of a new round of physical therapy is that you’ll learn the latest techniques to stabilize the muscles around your damaged joints. Do it now before you start hearing words like “stenosis” and “fusion.”

The best book I’ve read on prepping for the VA disability claims process is “Introduction To Navigating The Convoluted System Called VA Compensation” by Robert Blake.
https://the-military-guide.com/introduc ... pensation/

If you really want to do a deep dive on the claims process then post your history/symptoms to PEBForum.com. It was founded by a JAG and has thousands of vets with similar careers. They’ve been through the VA disability claims process and many of them have been through PEBs and claims appeals. They’ll help you with the details of your claim.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am - My branch is Field Artillery which doesn’t directly translate to civilian equivalent outside defense industry.
- I’m a hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail but I loathe being inside a cube farm or reading spreadsheets all day.
- I’ve thought about starting in defense sector with a company that has a large non-defense portfolio so I can eventually transition in normal business environment as business knowledge increases.
- Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability.
- I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years.
- My absolute floor is $80k or I may as well go govt job; I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.
- Assignments include working with all services with past few years spent working primarily with very senior (3/4 * generals and their staffs and I have active TS/SCI security clearance.
- My undergrad is from Virginia Military Institute (2.7 history) and masters is Central Michigan University (3.9 management/admin) with masters thesis being a business plan case stuff for small business in Kansas City area.
I’ve learned about the career search from dozens of people, and I’ve talked with a lot of business execs during due diligence. You’re going to encounter the following paragraphs during your transition, so let me share them with you now.

As MickFI has mentioned, these statements are not a good foundation for a career search. If this attitude shows during your interviews then all you’ll get is “Thank you for your service.”

Nobody cares about your military career or field artillery. Nobody cares what your degrees are in (let alone your GPAs or your thesis) unless you’re seeking an academic job or a highly technical specialty. Nobody cares how senior your bosses were or even who they were. In fact, if you’re an O-5 who worked for such senior leaders then a hiring manager who’s a military vet will wonder why you’re not an O-6... and then they'll wonder why they should take a chance on you.

Frankly, the phrase “hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail” has a corporate connotation of “difficult to work with” and possibly even “not a good team member.” Among civilians, it perpetuates the stereotype of veterans who sit on their assets and bark orders at their subordinates. That’s not who you are.

GS-13 is possible straight out of the military, but you may find that the process takes six months (just for the ethics window alone) followed by a hiring process of several more months. GS-11 with a track to 13 is far more available.

The only asset in these sentences is your security clearance. If you can arrange the timing, it’d be profitable (for both you and your prospective employer) to have the appropriate investigations completed and adjudicated with at least several years left until the next update.

I recommend that you join the Linkedin group “Veteran Mentor Network” and start doing informational interviews with the other vets. It’s one of the largest Linkedin career-search groups.
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/4466143/
You can check my opinions above with the other members and then modify your strategy as you deem appropriate. They’ll help you identify the type of career you’re interested in, followed by specific corporations and roles. You’ll learn how to tailor your criteria to show how the corporation will benefit from you (not the other way around). You’ll meet people who are doing what you’d like to do at a place where you’d like to do it. Eventually you’ll network to people who are interested in taking your resume to a hiring manager.

I’d also suggest two (library) books on lifestyle and career:
“Designing Your Life”:
https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-L ... 01BJSRSEC/
and “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There.”
https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wo ... 000Q9J128/
* | * | Please see my profile for my next book. I don't read every post, so please PM or e-mail me to get my attention.
Dakotah
Posts: 179
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Dakotah »

krafty81 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:19 pm 34 years AD Navy for me. Retired in 2015. Work in defense now.

Some recs
- Work with good rep for your VA disability rating. You should be much higher than 30%.
- Update your clearance before you get out if you can. Much more painful on the other side.
- BD is challenging and not a long-term solution as a job. Good place to start if nothing else avail but then look to get over to the program side if possible. More upward mobility there.
- Lots of companies are letting people work from home now, so do not confine your search to just local.
- My state offers free tuition to veteran kids - a good deal. Do some research on what your state offers. States vary widely in what they tax, etc. Take all that into consideration when looking at compensation. DCR is getting expensive no matter what state you are in.
- Finally, I have learned to pay attention to job satisfaction in what you finally do. Too many of us focus on the compensation piece without looking at what you will actually be doing. The wrong fit can drain your soul...

Good luck!
Retired USAF here...just wanted to +1 here on the bolded part. The VA disability rating/process is more important than many realize. One of the biggest shocks to a new military-retirees system is when they see the taxes that are taken out of their first paycheck outside of the military. My tax burden in my first year as a civilian was higher than my entire taxable income for my last year in uniform. A good VA rating has an outsized financial benefit during the remainder of your workers years due to its tax-free status. A high rating also brings additional benefits both at the federal and state levels.
stan1
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by stan1 »

One ambitious goal might be starting up your own service-disabled veteran-owned small business in the defense industry. Start with a large business, they will help form viable small businesses to meet small business subcontracting requirements and eventually bid as the prime on SDVOSB set aside contracts. You know the places that do a lot of Army contracting (follow the money) such as Redstone and Aberdeen, not sure I would pick Aberdeen myself.
Valuethinker
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Valuethinker »

Nords wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:28 pm

Frankly, the phrase “hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail” has a corporate connotation of “difficult to work with” and possibly even “not a good team member.” Among civilians, it perpetuates the stereotype of veterans who sit on their assets and bark orders at their subordinates. That’s not who you are.
I was not the person to write those words with any authority, but it rings absolutely true. At least from a British/ London perspective.

Goldman Sachs, say, or Merrills, used to hire a lot of former junior officers, because they knew they could take being yelled at on the trading floor, starting work at 615am, drinking w the clients til late, etc. I don't know if they still do. But that was very specific to the high stress financial services careers. I don't imagine too many other places of (office) work will have that culture.
friar1610
Posts: 2331
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Location: MA South Shore

Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by friar1610 »

Nords wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:28 pm I see you’ve been in the forum for a few years, five2one, so let me write my advice for the other military members of the group as well as for you.

You're getting great suggestions from MickFI. I'll build on those.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Planning to retire from the military (Army, Lieutenant Colonel) in next couple years and planning my exit strategy. I’m 43 and my window opens next September which gives me at least 23 years but I can wait another 10 years before forced out.
If you haven’t already done so, you should attend the Army’s transition seminar now. There’s a tendency for... more senior... servicemembers to put that off because “we’re too busy”, but you need to start learning any uncomfortable facts now so that you won’t be unpleasantly surprised later. Take leave if you must. The senior/executive retirement version is better for your concerns & questions than the generic separation seminar, but it’s more important to take either one now.

Even better would be attending with your spouse-- you’ll both hear the same information in different ways, which will lead to more thoughtful conversations about your next phase of your lives together.

I’d also recommend the Ruehlin seminar:
https://www.ruehlinassociates.com/
If you choose to pursue a bridge career, you’ll learn a lot more from them than in the generic transition briefs.

I realize you're flexible on the timing of your transition, but you want to finish these steps on your schedule. If you get that unrefusable offer from the assignment officer then you'll be able to respond much more quickly. Let's not get into how I've learned that.

Regarding these quotes:
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am The Army will help my transition by stationing me in the region I plan to retire and positioned to work as a civilian. Also, I get one fully paid move after I retire BUT can save that move for several years AFTER retirement.
However, I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.
While our family is primarily south east and personally we LOVE west coast mountains and beach the politics and cost of living keep us away. If forced, I’ll choose income over location if all other factors are same.
I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
Your comments about location are setting you up for a challenging transition. The search happens more quickly if you choose career over location, but insisting on a certain place will complicate and prolong the process.

The best collection of lifestyle databases I know of is TheEarthAwaits.com. You might want to build your own list of 10-25 locations so that you can overlap them with the career searches and maybe even do a visit or two.

Statistically, half of all vets move a second time after their transition. This is a good thing-- it indicates that they’re succeeding in their bridge careers and that they’re much more proficient at networking to the job that they’ve learned they really want. When you’ve locked yourself into a specific location then again you’re making it more challenging for the second job search.

I might be over-interpreting your plans, but military families are frequently fooled by the myth of the forever home. This causes far more stress than the retiree’s career search, and it’s complicated by the apparent lack of employment income. Even if you plan to rent when you retire, be ready for these issues:
https://the-military-guide.com/dont-buy ... tive-duty/
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
What you’re describing is “I’m good, I don’t need any treatment because I can take care of it with my lifestyle.” I doubt that’s what you want.

Your first step is making sure the service-related connection is in your medical record and the symptoms are thoroughly documented. That’s best done right now-- even if it gets you beached or boarded-- because there’s not enough time to do this during your retirement physical.

The other reason behind “right now” is to document your need for continuing treatment. The rating criteria don’t award anything for conditions which can be handled with motrin & rest. (That’s the criteria you use to stay physically qualified and to avoid being placed on limited duty.) You're telling the VA that you're cured, and to them it means that you are not impaired in your ability to provide for your family-- so your disability rating is 0%.

You want to get referrals right now to the appropriate orthopedic surgeons (spine, knees, and ankles) as well as physical therapy. With your artillery background you might even want to visit an audiologist, although there’s no exam for tinnitus beyond your assertion of the symptoms.

I’m not suggesting that you manipulate the VA disability claim process but rather that you collect the information and education that you need now to be able to have a smooth series of Compensation & Pension exams during the claim. A side effect of a new round of physical therapy is that you’ll learn the latest techniques to stabilize the muscles around your damaged joints. Do it now before you start hearing words like “stenosis” and “fusion.”

The best book I’ve read on prepping for the VA disability claims process is “Introduction To Navigating The Convoluted System Called VA Compensation” by Robert Blake.
https://the-military-guide.com/introduc ... pensation/

If you really want to do a deep dive on the claims process then post your history/symptoms to PEBForum.com. It was founded by a JAG and has thousands of vets with similar careers. They’ve been through the VA disability claims process and many of them have been through PEBs and claims appeals. They’ll help you with the details of your claim.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am - My branch is Field Artillery which doesn’t directly translate to civilian equivalent outside defense industry.
- I’m a hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail but I loathe being inside a cube farm or reading spreadsheets all day.
- I’ve thought about starting in defense sector with a company that has a large non-defense portfolio so I can eventually transition in normal business environment as business knowledge increases.
- Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability.
- I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years.
- My absolute floor is $80k or I may as well go govt job; I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.
- Assignments include working with all services with past few years spent working primarily with very senior (3/4 * generals and their staffs and I have active TS/SCI security clearance.
- My undergrad is from Virginia Military Institute (2.7 history) and masters is Central Michigan University (3.9 management/admin) with masters thesis being a business plan case stuff for small business in Kansas City area.
I’ve learned about the career search from dozens of people, and I’ve talked with a lot of business execs during due diligence. You’re going to encounter the following paragraphs during your transition, so let me share them with you now.

As MickFI has mentioned, these statements are not a good foundation for a career search. If this attitude shows during your interviews then all you’ll get is “Thank you for your service.”

Nobody cares about your military career or field artillery. Nobody cares what your degrees are in (let alone your GPAs or your thesis) unless you’re seeking an academic job or a highly technical specialty. Nobody cares how senior your bosses were or even who they were. In fact, if you’re an O-5 who worked for such senior leaders then a hiring manager who’s a military vet will wonder why you’re not an O-6... and then they'll wonder why they should take a chance on you.

Frankly, the phrase “hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail” has a corporate connotation of “difficult to work with” and possibly even “not a good team member.” Among civilians, it perpetuates the stereotype of veterans who sit on their assets and bark orders at their subordinates. That’s not who you are.

GS-13 is possible straight out of the military, but you may find that the process takes six months (just for the ethics window alone) followed by a hiring process of several more months. GS-11 with a track to 13 is far more available.

The only asset in these sentences is your security clearance. If you can arrange the timing, it’d be profitable (for both you and your prospective employer) to have the appropriate investigations completed and adjudicated with at least several years left until the next update.

I recommend that you join the Linkedin group “Veteran Mentor Network” and start doing informational interviews with the other vets. It’s one of the largest Linkedin career-search groups.
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/4466143/
You can check my opinions above with the other members and then modify your strategy as you deem appropriate. They’ll help you identify the type of career you’re interested in, followed by specific corporations and roles. You’ll learn how to tailor your criteria to show how the corporation will benefit from you (not the other way around). You’ll meet people who are doing what you’d like to do at a place where you’d like to do it. Eventually you’ll network to people who are interested in taking your resume to a hiring manager.

I’d also suggest two (library) books on lifestyle and career:
“Designing Your Life”:
https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-L ... 01BJSRSEC/
and “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There.”
https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wo ... 000Q9J128/
Some of the older military retirees who served in the DC area may recall Stanley Hyman and the “ Strategy of Career Transition” course. Stan used a “tough love” approach to disabuse senior officers of incorrect/unrealistic notions of the civilian private sector. He gave it to them both barrels about what the for-profit world is looking for and how much of what was important in the military is of no consequence there. As I was reading Nords’ excellent response, I was reminded of how many of his comments overlapped those of Hyman and how right (at least in my experience) that advice is.
Friar1610 | 50-ish/50-ish - a satisficer, not a maximizer
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You Know What I Mean
Posts: 313
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by You Know What I Mean »

friar1610 wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:20 pm
Nords wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:28 pm I see you’ve been in the forum for a few years, five2one, so let me write my advice for the other military members of the group as well as for you.

You're getting great suggestions from MickFI. I'll build on those.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Planning to retire from the military (Army, Lieutenant Colonel) in next couple years and planning my exit strategy. I’m 43 and my window opens next September which gives me at least 23 years but I can wait another 10 years before forced out.
If you haven’t already done so, you should attend the Army’s transition seminar now. There’s a tendency for... more senior... servicemembers to put that off because “we’re too busy”, but you need to start learning any uncomfortable facts now so that you won’t be unpleasantly surprised later. Take leave if you must. The senior/executive retirement version is better for your concerns & questions than the generic separation seminar, but it’s more important to take either one now.

Even better would be attending with your spouse-- you’ll both hear the same information in different ways, which will lead to more thoughtful conversations about your next phase of your lives together.

I’d also recommend the Ruehlin seminar:
https://www.ruehlinassociates.com/
If you choose to pursue a bridge career, you’ll learn a lot more from them than in the generic transition briefs.

I realize you're flexible on the timing of your transition, but you want to finish these steps on your schedule. If you get that unrefusable offer from the assignment officer then you'll be able to respond much more quickly. Let's not get into how I've learned that.

Regarding these quotes:
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am The Army will help my transition by stationing me in the region I plan to retire and positioned to work as a civilian. Also, I get one fully paid move after I retire BUT can save that move for several years AFTER retirement.
However, I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.
While our family is primarily south east and personally we LOVE west coast mountains and beach the politics and cost of living keep us away. If forced, I’ll choose income over location if all other factors are same.
I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
Your comments about location are setting you up for a challenging transition. The search happens more quickly if you choose career over location, but insisting on a certain place will complicate and prolong the process.

The best collection of lifestyle databases I know of is TheEarthAwaits.com. You might want to build your own list of 10-25 locations so that you can overlap them with the career searches and maybe even do a visit or two.

Statistically, half of all vets move a second time after their transition. This is a good thing-- it indicates that they’re succeeding in their bridge careers and that they’re much more proficient at networking to the job that they’ve learned they really want. When you’ve locked yourself into a specific location then again you’re making it more challenging for the second job search.

I might be over-interpreting your plans, but military families are frequently fooled by the myth of the forever home. This causes far more stress than the retiree’s career search, and it’s complicated by the apparent lack of employment income. Even if you plan to rent when you retire, be ready for these issues:
https://the-military-guide.com/dont-buy ... tive-duty/
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
What you’re describing is “I’m good, I don’t need any treatment because I can take care of it with my lifestyle.” I doubt that’s what you want.

Your first step is making sure the service-related connection is in your medical record and the symptoms are thoroughly documented. That’s best done right now-- even if it gets you beached or boarded-- because there’s not enough time to do this during your retirement physical.

The other reason behind “right now” is to document your need for continuing treatment. The rating criteria don’t award anything for conditions which can be handled with motrin & rest. (That’s the criteria you use to stay physically qualified and to avoid being placed on limited duty.) You're telling the VA that you're cured, and to them it means that you are not impaired in your ability to provide for your family-- so your disability rating is 0%.

You want to get referrals right now to the appropriate orthopedic surgeons (spine, knees, and ankles) as well as physical therapy. With your artillery background you might even want to visit an audiologist, although there’s no exam for tinnitus beyond your assertion of the symptoms.

I’m not suggesting that you manipulate the VA disability claim process but rather that you collect the information and education that you need now to be able to have a smooth series of Compensation & Pension exams during the claim. A side effect of a new round of physical therapy is that you’ll learn the latest techniques to stabilize the muscles around your damaged joints. Do it now before you start hearing words like “stenosis” and “fusion.”

The best book I’ve read on prepping for the VA disability claims process is “Introduction To Navigating The Convoluted System Called VA Compensation” by Robert Blake.
https://the-military-guide.com/introduc ... pensation/

If you really want to do a deep dive on the claims process then post your history/symptoms to PEBForum.com. It was founded by a JAG and has thousands of vets with similar careers. They’ve been through the VA disability claims process and many of them have been through PEBs and claims appeals. They’ll help you with the details of your claim.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am - My branch is Field Artillery which doesn’t directly translate to civilian equivalent outside defense industry.
- I’m a hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail but I loathe being inside a cube farm or reading spreadsheets all day.
- I’ve thought about starting in defense sector with a company that has a large non-defense portfolio so I can eventually transition in normal business environment as business knowledge increases.
- Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability.
- I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years.
- My absolute floor is $80k or I may as well go govt job; I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.
- Assignments include working with all services with past few years spent working primarily with very senior (3/4 * generals and their staffs and I have active TS/SCI security clearance.
- My undergrad is from Virginia Military Institute (2.7 history) and masters is Central Michigan University (3.9 management/admin) with masters thesis being a business plan case stuff for small business in Kansas City area.
I’ve learned about the career search from dozens of people, and I’ve talked with a lot of business execs during due diligence. You’re going to encounter the following paragraphs during your transition, so let me share them with you now.

As MickFI has mentioned, these statements are not a good foundation for a career search. If this attitude shows during your interviews then all you’ll get is “Thank you for your service.”

Nobody cares about your military career or field artillery. Nobody cares what your degrees are in (let alone your GPAs or your thesis) unless you’re seeking an academic job or a highly technical specialty. Nobody cares how senior your bosses were or even who they were. In fact, if you’re an O-5 who worked for such senior leaders then a hiring manager who’s a military vet will wonder why you’re not an O-6... and then they'll wonder why they should take a chance on you.

Frankly, the phrase “hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail” has a corporate connotation of “difficult to work with” and possibly even “not a good team member.” Among civilians, it perpetuates the stereotype of veterans who sit on their assets and bark orders at their subordinates. That’s not who you are.

GS-13 is possible straight out of the military, but you may find that the process takes six months (just for the ethics window alone) followed by a hiring process of several more months. GS-11 with a track to 13 is far more available.

The only asset in these sentences is your security clearance. If you can arrange the timing, it’d be profitable (for both you and your prospective employer) to have the appropriate investigations completed and adjudicated with at least several years left until the next update.

I recommend that you join the Linkedin group “Veteran Mentor Network” and start doing informational interviews with the other vets. It’s one of the largest Linkedin career-search groups.
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/4466143/
You can check my opinions above with the other members and then modify your strategy as you deem appropriate. They’ll help you identify the type of career you’re interested in, followed by specific corporations and roles. You’ll learn how to tailor your criteria to show how the corporation will benefit from you (not the other way around). You’ll meet people who are doing what you’d like to do at a place where you’d like to do it. Eventually you’ll network to people who are interested in taking your resume to a hiring manager.

I’d also suggest two (library) books on lifestyle and career:
“Designing Your Life”:
https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-L ... 01BJSRSEC/
and “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There.”
https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wo ... 000Q9J128/
Some of the older military retirees who served in the DC area may recall Stanley Hyman and the “ Strategy of Career Transition” course. Stan used a “tough love” approach to disabuse senior officers of incorrect/unrealistic notions of the civilian private sector. He gave it to them both barrels about what the for-profit world is looking for and how much of what was important in the military is of no consequence there. As I was reading Nords’ excellent response, I was reminded of how many of his comments overlapped those of Hyman and how right (at least in my experience) that advice is.
I took that course from Stanley Hyman in 1991 or 1992. He was brutally direct. And he himself came across as “hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail."
"Well, she was just seventeen, You Know What I Mean, and the way she looked... was way beyond compare."
oldfort
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:45 pm

Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by oldfort »

five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability. I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years.
Thanks!
If you want $150k-$250k, forget about government jobs. A GS-15 in DC caps out at 172,500. A GS-14 in DC maxes out at 159k. If you are in a lower cost-of-living place, a GS-14 won't break 150k.
Parkinglotracer
Posts: 3944
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:49 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

I retired in 2005 as an 0-5 (USAF) and worked in Business Dev for Lockheed Martin for 15 years. Re-retired in 2020. Many in our office were ex artillery folks, ex air defender folks working with the Army on Q-53 or Sentinel A4. Deaf but Great group - ok just kidding.

You prob know some of the people that are working there now. PM me if I can help. My experience is that I would get the education you need now to get a new job if you think that is needed and Work to do what you are passionate about; you will likely be in the work force another 15+ years so don’t just take a job because the pay is good.

Thanks for your service
Parkinglotracer
Posts: 3944
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:49 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

You Know What I Mean wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:46 pm
friar1610 wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:20 pm
Nords wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:28 pm I see you’ve been in the forum for a few years, five2one, so let me write my advice for the other military members of the group as well as for you.

You're getting great suggestions from MickFI. I'll build on those.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Planning to retire from the military (Army, Lieutenant Colonel) in next couple years and planning my exit strategy. I’m 43 and my window opens next September which gives me at least 23 years but I can wait another 10 years before forced out.
If you haven’t already done so, you should attend the Army’s transition seminar now. There’s a tendency for... more senior... servicemembers to put that off because “we’re too busy”, but you need to start learning any uncomfortable facts now so that you won’t be unpleasantly surprised later. Take leave if you must. The senior/executive retirement version is better for your concerns & questions than the generic separation seminar, but it’s more important to take either one now.

Even better would be attending with your spouse-- you’ll both hear the same information in different ways, which will lead to more thoughtful conversations about your next phase of your lives together.

I’d also recommend the Ruehlin seminar:
https://www.ruehlinassociates.com/
If you choose to pursue a bridge career, you’ll learn a lot more from them than in the generic transition briefs.

I realize you're flexible on the timing of your transition, but you want to finish these steps on your schedule. If you get that unrefusable offer from the assignment officer then you'll be able to respond much more quickly. Let's not get into how I've learned that.

Regarding these quotes:
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am The Army will help my transition by stationing me in the region I plan to retire and positioned to work as a civilian. Also, I get one fully paid move after I retire BUT can save that move for several years AFTER retirement.
However, I have to balance this with 3 kids (12, 10, and 8) so top schools then in state university is number 1 concern balanced with income.
While our family is primarily south east and personally we LOVE west coast mountains and beach the politics and cost of living keep us away. If forced, I’ll choose income over location if all other factors are same.
I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
Your comments about location are setting you up for a challenging transition. The search happens more quickly if you choose career over location, but insisting on a certain place will complicate and prolong the process.

The best collection of lifestyle databases I know of is TheEarthAwaits.com. You might want to build your own list of 10-25 locations so that you can overlap them with the career searches and maybe even do a visit or two.

Statistically, half of all vets move a second time after their transition. This is a good thing-- it indicates that they’re succeeding in their bridge careers and that they’re much more proficient at networking to the job that they’ve learned they really want. When you’ve locked yourself into a specific location then again you’re making it more challenging for the second job search.

I might be over-interpreting your plans, but military families are frequently fooled by the myth of the forever home. This causes far more stress than the retiree’s career search, and it’s complicated by the apparent lack of employment income. Even if you plan to rent when you retire, be ready for these issues:
https://the-military-guide.com/dont-buy ... tive-duty/
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am Fortunately, my health is relatively good (some broken bones, tinnitus, couple compressed disks from parachute ops, etc. kept in check by diet, exercise, rest, and motrin and rest takes care of) but I acknowledge this will likely get worse as I age. I expect to have at least 30% disability from all this so good hospital, gym, grocery stores, kids schools, etc are very important for location.
What you’re describing is “I’m good, I don’t need any treatment because I can take care of it with my lifestyle.” I doubt that’s what you want.

Your first step is making sure the service-related connection is in your medical record and the symptoms are thoroughly documented. That’s best done right now-- even if it gets you beached or boarded-- because there’s not enough time to do this during your retirement physical.

The other reason behind “right now” is to document your need for continuing treatment. The rating criteria don’t award anything for conditions which can be handled with motrin & rest. (That’s the criteria you use to stay physically qualified and to avoid being placed on limited duty.) You're telling the VA that you're cured, and to them it means that you are not impaired in your ability to provide for your family-- so your disability rating is 0%.

You want to get referrals right now to the appropriate orthopedic surgeons (spine, knees, and ankles) as well as physical therapy. With your artillery background you might even want to visit an audiologist, although there’s no exam for tinnitus beyond your assertion of the symptoms.

I’m not suggesting that you manipulate the VA disability claim process but rather that you collect the information and education that you need now to be able to have a smooth series of Compensation & Pension exams during the claim. A side effect of a new round of physical therapy is that you’ll learn the latest techniques to stabilize the muscles around your damaged joints. Do it now before you start hearing words like “stenosis” and “fusion.”

The best book I’ve read on prepping for the VA disability claims process is “Introduction To Navigating The Convoluted System Called VA Compensation” by Robert Blake.
https://the-military-guide.com/introduc ... pensation/

If you really want to do a deep dive on the claims process then post your history/symptoms to PEBForum.com. It was founded by a JAG and has thousands of vets with similar careers. They’ve been through the VA disability claims process and many of them have been through PEBs and claims appeals. They’ll help you with the details of your claim.
five2one wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:27 am - My branch is Field Artillery which doesn’t directly translate to civilian equivalent outside defense industry.
- I’m a hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail but I loathe being inside a cube farm or reading spreadsheets all day.
- I’ve thought about starting in defense sector with a company that has a large non-defense portfolio so I can eventually transition in normal business environment as business knowledge increases.
- Also, I’ve thought about government civilian (GS-13 would be pretty easy to get) but not sure I can settle for lower income potential in exchange for more stability.
- I’m not opposed to contract work (will have healthcare benefits) but really need to come out gate at least at $100k and desire to hit $150-250k figures in sub 10 years.
- My absolute floor is $80k or I may as well go govt job; I’m VERY hungry to make up income missed for my younger days and recognize the first few years will be a grind to establish credibility.
- Assignments include working with all services with past few years spent working primarily with very senior (3/4 * generals and their staffs and I have active TS/SCI security clearance.
- My undergrad is from Virginia Military Institute (2.7 history) and masters is Central Michigan University (3.9 management/admin) with masters thesis being a business plan case stuff for small business in Kansas City area.
I’ve learned about the career search from dozens of people, and I’ve talked with a lot of business execs during due diligence. You’re going to encounter the following paragraphs during your transition, so let me share them with you now.

As MickFI has mentioned, these statements are not a good foundation for a career search. If this attitude shows during your interviews then all you’ll get is “Thank you for your service.”

Nobody cares about your military career or field artillery. Nobody cares what your degrees are in (let alone your GPAs or your thesis) unless you’re seeking an academic job or a highly technical specialty. Nobody cares how senior your bosses were or even who they were. In fact, if you’re an O-5 who worked for such senior leaders then a hiring manager who’s a military vet will wonder why you’re not an O-6... and then they'll wonder why they should take a chance on you.

Frankly, the phrase “hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail” has a corporate connotation of “difficult to work with” and possibly even “not a good team member.” Among civilians, it perpetuates the stereotype of veterans who sit on their assets and bark orders at their subordinates. That’s not who you are.

GS-13 is possible straight out of the military, but you may find that the process takes six months (just for the ethics window alone) followed by a hiring process of several more months. GS-11 with a track to 13 is far more available.

The only asset in these sentences is your security clearance. If you can arrange the timing, it’d be profitable (for both you and your prospective employer) to have the appropriate investigations completed and adjudicated with at least several years left until the next update.

I recommend that you join the Linkedin group “Veteran Mentor Network” and start doing informational interviews with the other vets. It’s one of the largest Linkedin career-search groups.
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/4466143/
You can check my opinions above with the other members and then modify your strategy as you deem appropriate. They’ll help you identify the type of career you’re interested in, followed by specific corporations and roles. You’ll learn how to tailor your criteria to show how the corporation will benefit from you (not the other way around). You’ll meet people who are doing what you’d like to do at a place where you’d like to do it. Eventually you’ll network to people who are interested in taking your resume to a hiring manager.

I’d also suggest two (library) books on lifestyle and career:
“Designing Your Life”:
https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-L ... 01BJSRSEC/
and “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There.”
https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wo ... 000Q9J128/
Some of the older military retirees who served in the DC area may recall Stanley Hyman and the “ Strategy of Career Transition” course. Stan used a “tough love” approach to disabuse senior officers of incorrect/unrealistic notions of the civilian private sector. He gave it to them both barrels about what the for-profit world is looking for and how much of what was important in the military is of no consequence there. As I was reading Nords’ excellent response, I was reminded of how many of his comments overlapped those of Hyman and how right (at least in my experience) that advice is.
I took that course from Stanley Hyman in 1991 or 1992. He was brutally direct. And he himself came across as “hyper-aggressive type-A personality with a high level of attention to detail."
As a retired 0-5 that worked in the defense industry for 15 years there are a lot of stereo types in this thread. And I guess stereo types are there for a reason. Lockheed Martin is a great place to work for Vets. Yes it helps not to be an obnoxious know it all when you transition to any new career. My experience: It may help to have an engineering degree and an advanced degree to understand some of the engineering development work as well as business case concepts. The ability to get along with other people who are not like you goes a long way at this point in your career transition. Pay will likely be what you are making now including your current tax advantages; annual raises meet market surveys - say with 3-4% a year over the last 10+ years. No retirement plan; but 6% 401K match and an extra 10% in retirement account plus eligible for 8-12% annual bonus. Great deal after serving your country. Thank you for your service.
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five2one
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by five2one »

Checking back in with some updates and really appreciate all the feedback, especially those who offered personal help. I'm still gathering my thoughts and will reach out to others, I'm very sensitive to respecting folks personal time. Since my last post, I delayed retirement after the Army offered a tour in Honolulu Hawaii.

My baseline retirement priorities haven't changed but my experience and network have grown which improved my options. I'm not committed to an industry but prefer locations near mountains AND oceans if possible. My top priority is income and a strong socioeconomic environment to support kids college prep. I'm not as worried about tempo as most everything I see seems to be slower than current pace. While job security is important, it's likely a knee-jerk reaction and I recognize it only exists in GOVT (low desire).

My latest positions to help feedback on post-mil career fields while I work to build a non-classified resume.
- Initially I was the senior liaison between two regional sister-service military HQs. My role was to identify collaboration opportunities and recommend solutions. I had multiple successes that used existing resources in new ways with significant impacts across the Asian Pacific region. Bottom line here is that I really enjoyed the autonomy to identify opportunities, recommend solutions, and led some initiatives through execution. The downside was watching folks run straight into a problem AFTER they were not only told it was coming but how to capitalize on it as an opportunity. At the same time, these folks owned the risk of their decisions so my reputation was clean. Initially a temporary position, I was extended several times due to my progress. Eventual I was brought back to HQs to improve operations.

- Then I was the ops director during a new initiative where I planned, integrated, and managed the integration of people, processes, and computer systems across the organization. This was initially fun as I improved the various processes which eventually became repetitive. I was frustrated that I wan't allowed to address the root problem and it was EXHAUSTING; there was A LOT of organizational change with dozens of stakeholders, some (including leaders) were very resistant to change. The changes challenged established thinking and improved the ORG but every day was a fight, regardless of my engagement strategy. The payoff was good as it led to my current position where I could expand my scope of work and creativity.

- Now I'm the director of concepts and work with traditional & non-traditional DOD businesses, R&D communities, and academia to develop, test, and integrate new technology. This work is very broad and includes a little bit of optimizing traditional military equipment (weapons, established COMMs architecture, logistics, etc) but mostly cutting edge tech like hypersonic WPNs, automated intelligence, advanced communications, sensors, etc. This stuff is like science fiction and cutting edge technology that's really cool. I enjoy working around VERY SMART people (who occasionally geek out) to help them focus tech development. The work is very stimulating, I like that it is broad range of topics, and I've figured out I'm really good at switching between divergent and convergent thinking. The only downside is not being able to capitalize on the tech due to slow organizational processes. I also recognize (and appreciate) the need for "good bureaucracy" to avoid chasing every fleeting idea.

I'm now looking at a couple post-mil options to apply these skills with planned retirement of Q1FY24:
- Military SME with automotive or aircraft manufacturing. This recommendation by a senior HR leader surprised me a little. The recommendation was based on current tech downsize trend and anticipated manufacturing growth in Q1FY23. This seems like one degree of separation from the typical defense companies (not a bad thing) and good way to capitalize on potential economic growth. The concern is getting pigeonholed into an industry. I have networking offers if I'm interested which is helpful.

- Banking with initial focus on operations in AML (anti-money laundering). This was recommended by a senior banking friend that also entered banking after his military career. The attraction is the ability to learn a technical aspect of the business to grow into a potentially (hopefully) well-paying career. It seems to offer a predictable schedule and I can move several degrees of separation beyond DOD while the soft skills seem very similar to what I already do. The aspect of working across lines of operations to reduce corporate risk appears to require thought processes I'm already using. From watching the economy over that last few years of COVID, govt stimulus, etc., I can't shake the timeless banking quote "that's where the money is". I also have networking offers if I pursue this field.

- Defense industry as a corporate rep (not contractor) in a couple different roles as either a site lead with a couple direct reports or similar role of managing product lines. I'm already getting unsolicited interest and pay would be at least mid $150s and I'd certainly know the topics on day 1. Downside is potential limit on personal growth and I'd like a little more separation from the defense industry.

I'm not looking for any more "cool guy" door kicking stuff and I'll be the first to admit I love the feel of a good suit...when I want to. :mrgreen:

Any thoughts on these fields or other professions to explore?
Parkinglotracer
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Re: Post military planning: Best US city…in 5-10 years?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

Welcome back. I’d write down the post military career fields of the last 15 folks you know that retired from the Army with a similar background to yours. I’d keep in touch with them for job opportunities - you are still more that a year out to when you plan to get out. At Lockheed Martin I did not see manning projected a year out. Jobs were open, advertised, and filled in the few to six months ahead timeframe. If you want a good job I’d plan being able to move to where the job is although remote work in some positions is acceptable. Former artillery 0-5’s and 0-6’s worked down my hall helping market Counter fire radars to the army and worldwide services. A few retired guys I saw over my 15 years had trouble transitioning to work / taking direction from a Program Manager or Director that had 100% corporate experience and was younger than they were. Get behind those people they are your new Generals and are likely responsible for the profit and loss reported to shareholders. What I saw from successful newly retired officers (like I tried to be) was they never mentioned their previous rank, set their egos aside, rolled their sleeves up, built strong relationships with their new workmates, and they did whatever the person they worked for asked them to do in order to accomplish the new corporate mission. Usually that involved emails, power point, and internal communication actions. Sometimes it involved helping the corporate organization understand the department of defense customer. Sometimes it involved communicating with the customer.
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