RV Purchase: Update

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bhwabeck3533
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RV Purchase: Update

Post by bhwabeck3533 »

The "Plan" to purchase used Class B Airstream Interstate (budget $125K) is described below:

Step 1. Refinance home, cash-out, pay off original mortgage and net $80K toward RV. (Completed yesterday)
Step 2. Rent Class B RV and determine if size and features warrant the investment. (Scheduled for first week of November)
Step 3. Assuming step 2 is successful, withdraw $45K from IRA to enable a cash offer on the RV (may break this withdrawal into two parts for tax
purposes...half in 2021 and half in early 2022).
Step 4: Negotiate and purchase RV which fits our criteria - mileage, model, features, etc. (Q1 2022)

Questions:
1. Will I pay income tax on the $80K realized from the cash-out mortgage re-finance?
2. What "discount" below the listed RV price should I be targeting?
3. Would I avoid paying sales tax if I purchase from a private seller versus buying from an RV dealer?
fabdog
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by fabdog »

no idea on #2...

#1- no, no taxes due on funds from cash out refi

#3- not likely. each state has their own rules, but all that I am aware of require sales tax to be paid when you register the vehicle if purchased in a private sale. You'll need to provide a bill of sale in order to title/register the vehicle

edited to add Alabama specifics
ales taxes on casual sales (sales between individuals) are collected when the purchaser applies for license registration at the courthouse. Rates are based on the tax rates in effect for vehicles in the county and municipality in which the purchaser resides. State sales and use tax on vehicle purchases is 2% of the net purchase price.

The state law requires Alabama licensed dealers to furnish all purchasers of new or used vehicles with an invoice or bill of sale which reports the separate amounts of state, county and municipal sales tax collected by the dealer at the time of purchase which is based on the dealer’s location where the sale is made. The appropriate sales tax rates should be listed also.

All purchasers of vehicles are required to show their invoice or bill of sale when applying to the licensing official for vehicle registration. Registration is mandatory within twenty (20) calendar days of purchase date without tag penalty. If the licensed dealer has collected county and municipal sales taxes as reflected on the invoice, then no use tax is due. However, if municipal or county taxes are not collected at the time of purchase, the buyer will be required to pay the use tax applicable to vehicle sales which is in effect for the municipality or county in which the purchaser abides.

A county resident will always pay applicable state and county sales or use taxes on vehicle purchases. If the county resident buys a vehicle from a dealer in the city, then he may pay city sales tax to the dealer. A city resident will always pay applicable state, county and city sales or use taxes on vehicle purchases. If the city resident buys a vehicle from a dealer in a neighboring city and the dealer fails to collect city sales tax, then the city resident will pay city use tax at the time of vehicle registration.

The Alabama Legislature amended this law to include county and municipal sales and use tax on boat purchases effective on and after July 1, 1994. Sales and use tax must be paid prior to boat registration. All taxes collected by licensing officials are remitted directly to the appropriate municipal or county government.
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jucor
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by jucor »

Obligatory "you can' afford to do this post" ...

You've cash-out refinanced your home and are withdrawing from retirement funds for the purchase of a luxury used motorhome and are worried about sales taxes... What abut maintenance, storage costs, etc.? It seems to me that this is not a wise purchase.

In this environment Class B units have been selling like hotcakes and discounts appear to be thin on the ground.

Why not wait a year or two for the price bubble to deflate some, save up some funds so you aren't going into so much debt for a luxury good, and reconsider then.

Unless you're spending 10+ months a year in this thing it makes no real sense -- if spending a month or less consider renting.
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WoodSpinner
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by WoodSpinner »

OP,

You might find this service helpful for pricing and negotiations,
https://rvpricingandappraisals.com/

We’re you able to rent a similar Airstream Class-B or is it a different manufacturer? What kind of trip are you doing to get a feel for the RV?

As an FYI, we own a Class-B on the Sprinter 3500 chassis and have really enjoyed using it. Not everything is purely a financial decision, but….

I would make sure your budget accounts for ongoing RV expenses:
- Maintenance
- Repair
- DMV
- Storage
- Improvements
- Travel

WoodSpinner
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Californiastate
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by Californiastate »

YOLO

I'd get a boat too.
tibbitts
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by tibbitts »

Your sales tax issue (and it might not be called sales tax for a vehicle) is somewhat location dependent, but absent other information, I'd guess you'll pay the same tax either way when you register the vehicle. In some states you'll pay whichever is the larger amount: tax on the price you paid, or tax on the book value - the object being to prevent people for making up numbers on sales receipts.
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bhwabeck3533
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by bhwabeck3533 »

Californiastate wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:38 am YOLO

I'd get a boat too.
OP here.....

From your YOLOing advice to jucor (the voice of reason) keeping it real with "Obligatory you can' afford to do this post" ...

As much as the financial feedback is valued, the balance of philosophies on the site makes every post on the forum worth it.
tibbitts
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by tibbitts »

Have you had experience with an RV, and/or specifically a B, before? Seems odd to partly arrange financing before trying the vehicle.
squirm
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by squirm »

No to taxes in regards to your question.

If your thinking of waiting to buy as some suggested, the problem with that is bubbles can last a long time.

If your can easily afford this thing, i say go for it... Life is short.

I'd be cautious about buying one of these things from a private seller. My parents had one of these boats, lots of things can go wrong, so make sure you inspect it thoroughly.
ofs
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by ofs »

Make sure you join the best forum for class B's. With Airstream now owned by Thor, their new class Bs are built particularly poorly. But a used one should have most of the kinks worked out.

I had a Winnebago compact class C for a time. It was great and well worth the purchase for our family. If you know a class B is right for your style of travel, nothing less will suffice but the prices have been insane that past few years.
hvaclorax
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by hvaclorax »

Seriously,
You’re probably going to upgrade your towing vehicle. There’s no end to this. Still many are likely to enjoy. If you have to have it go ahead. Life is too short.
HVAC
tibbitts
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by tibbitts »

hvaclorax wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:46 am Seriously,
You’re probably going to upgrade your towing vehicle. There’s no end to this. Still many are likely to enjoy. If you have to have it go ahead. Life is too short.
HVAC
How is a towing vehicle involved here with a B?
WhyNotUs
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by WhyNotUs »

How did your test run of the RV go? Are you still on board with the Airstream?

As for discount, we bought ours from a private seller on RV Trader. I felt like the price was fair so we did not do much haggling. The seller agreed to reduce the price by about $2,000, which covered the cost of the inspection and having it trailered to our home. My concern was more about condition and care rather than whether we saved every dollar. It has turned out to be reliable and came with good records of previous maintenance. In addition, the previous owner answered a couple of questions that I had about the rig that a dealer could not have answered. Ours is a Navion/View.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
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bhwabeck3533
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by bhwabeck3533 »

WhyNotUs wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:18 am How did your test run of the RV go? Are you still on board with the Airstream?
OP here....with an update.

We really enjoyed our brief 5-day rental with a 2014 Class B Airstream Interstate. We overnighted at a couple of state parks in north Georgia and an RV Park near Chattanooga. We learned a LOT.
> Love the Class B. Very easy to handle on the road, and Airstream Interstate is well designed.
> We need a little more space, so are looking at the layout with only two seats (in the cab)...and want a newer used model (at least 2016)
> Our research is showing low inventory levels on our desired Class B and prices holding steady ($125K for a 2016)
> Now opening our search and interest to a Leisure Vans Unity 24MB (or Airstream Atlas / Tiffin Wayfarer)

We have the money in the bank, so hope to find one we fall in love with soon.
Kobinator
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by Kobinator »

From one Yooper to another (I assume): Enjoy the search and new adventures!
PoppyA
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by PoppyA »

Kobinator wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:34 pm From one Yooper to another (I assume): Enjoy the search and new adventures!
Did someone say “Yooper?”
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by mkc »

bhwabeck3533 wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:47 am
WhyNotUs wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:18 am How did your test run of the RV go? Are you still on board with the Airstream?
OP here....with an update.

We really enjoyed our brief 5-day rental with a 2014 Class B Airstream Interstate. We overnighted at a couple of state parks in north Georgia and an RV Park near Chattanooga. We learned a LOT.
> Love the Class B. Very easy to handle on the road, and Airstream Interstate is well designed.
> We need a little more space, so are looking at the layout with only two seats (in the cab)...and want a newer used model (at least 2016)
> Our research is showing low inventory levels on our desired Class B and prices holding steady ($125K for a 2016)
> Now opening our search and interest to a Leisure Vans Unity 24MB (or Airstream Atlas / Tiffin Wayfarer)

We have the money in the bank, so hope to find one we fall in love with soon.
We have a LTV Unity CB (have had it 4 years and bought it new; short term downsize from a Foretravel we had for 13 years). Airstream Atlas is overpriced and both it and especially the Tiffin will not have the same fit and finish as an LTV.

If you prefer the MB floorplan, look at Regency out of Ft. Worth as well if they are still around.
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by bhwabeck3533 »

Kobinator wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:34 pm From one Yooper to another (I assume): Enjoy the search and new adventures!
Yes. Wonder how many Yoopers there are on this forum? Born in Escanaba, now live in South Alabama.
hvaclorax
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by hvaclorax »

tibbitts wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:51 am
hvaclorax wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:46 am Seriously,
You’re probably going to upgrade your towing vehicle. There’s no end to this. Still many are likely to enjoy. If you have to have it go ahead. Life is too short.
HVAC
How is a towing vehicle involved here with a B?
Not sure what B is. Maybe it’s because this is an RV? You’re correct of course.
HVAC
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Kobinator wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:34 pm From one Yooper to another (I assume): Enjoy the search and new adventures!
Yooper
[ˈyo͞opər]
NOUN
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a native or inhabitant of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.


Broken Man 1999
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AllMostThere
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by AllMostThere »

bhwabeck3533 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:16 am
Kobinator wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:34 pm From one Yooper to another (I assume): Enjoy the search and new adventures!
Yes. Wonder how many Yoopers there are on this forum? Born in Escanaba, now live in South Alabama.
Yooper seedling here! Born in Detroit area a graduate of Michigan Tech. I remember my time in "Dah UP" (Keweenaw) with great fondness. I can honestly say it was the best place I have ever lived! Best of everything - Four Seasons, Great Culture, Hunting, Pickled Eggs, and Pasties. :D If I could have found a job there, I would have stayed. I speak of it often with kids and can't wait until 2022 when I take my DS there for Campus visit. You are truly a special breed of person to be from there. GO HUSKIES!
Last edited by AllMostThere on Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by mkc »

hvaclorax wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:42 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:51 am
hvaclorax wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:46 am Seriously,
You’re probably going to upgrade your towing vehicle. There’s no end to this. Still many are likely to enjoy. If you have to have it go ahead. Life is too short.
HVAC
How is a towing vehicle involved here with a B?
Not sure what B is. Maybe it’s because this is an RV? You’re correct of course.
HVAC
A B (class B) is an OEM solid van body fitted as a motorhome (motorized RV). A class A is a unit that starts as an unfitted chassis where the entire "house" is built by the RV manufacturer. A class C is a cutaway cab chassis with the "house" built by the RV manufacturer. (A B+ is a marketing term used to describe a small class C, typically one on a Sprinter or Transit chassis). Prevost-chassis brands (Liberty, Marathon, etc.) are usually called "bus conversions".
ktdintex
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by ktdintex »

I don’t see RV pricing or demand dropping much in the next year or two. Industry projections by the RV manufacturers confirm as much, and that was before this Omicron variant that I think will only sustain, if not increase, demand for RVs.

We just went through a similar plan, rearranging our finances a bit and buying an RV in anticipation of retiring soon. In our case, we bought a 38 foot Super C motorhome. For those not familiar, it’s a diesel RV built on an 18 wheeler type chassis. Big towing power and lots of room inside and out.
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by mkc »

ktdintex wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:49 pm We just went through a similar plan, rearranging our finances a bit and buying an RV in anticipation of retiring soon. In our case, we bought a 38 foot Super C motorhome. For those not familiar, it’s a diesel RV built on an 18 wheeler type chassis. Big towing power and lots of room inside and out.
Renegade Verona LE LDG? If so, sweet ride! You'll love the AquaHot!
ktdintex
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by ktdintex »

mkc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:22 pm
ktdintex wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:49 pm We just went through a similar plan, rearranging our finances a bit and buying an RV in anticipation of retiring soon. In our case, we bought a 38 foot Super C motorhome. For those not familiar, it’s a diesel RV built on an 18 wheeler type chassis. Big towing power and lots of room inside and out.
Renegade Verona LE LDG? If so, sweet ride! You'll love the AquaHot!
Good guess on the Renegade. We have a Valencia, which uses propane, rather than a Verona. We did look at the Verona but I actually prefer propane. I read about too many problems with the Aquahot system.
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by mkc »

ktdintex wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:01 pm
mkc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:22 pm
ktdintex wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:49 pm We just went through a similar plan, rearranging our finances a bit and buying an RV in anticipation of retiring soon. In our case, we bought a 38 foot Super C motorhome. For those not familiar, it’s a diesel RV built on an 18 wheeler type chassis. Big towing power and lots of room inside and out.
Renegade Verona LE LDG? If so, sweet ride! You'll love the AquaHot!
Good guess on the Renegade. We have a Valencia, which uses propane, rather than a Verona. We did look at the Verona but I actually prefer propane. I read about too many problems with the Aquahot system.
In the future, don't let an Aquahot be an immediate turn-off (if it's diesel-powered; I'm not familiar with the LP-powered AquaHot model). Takes no more maintenance than a home oil burner (filter, clean the combustion chamber, replace the nozzle). The coach we had for 13 years had one and it's one of our "necessities" for our next rig.

BTW, we toured the Renegade super C factory in 2017. Very impressed in comparison with the other brands of motorhomes built in the Elkhart/Nappanee/etc. area.
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snackdog
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by snackdog »

bhwabeck3533 wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:47 am
WhyNotUs wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:18 am How did your test run of the RV go? Are you still on board with the Airstream?
OP here....with an update.

We really enjoyed our brief 5-day rental with a 2014 Class B Airstream Interstate. We overnighted at a couple of state parks in north Georgia and an RV Park near Chattanooga. We learned a LOT.
> Love the Class B. Very easy to handle on the road, and Airstream Interstate is well designed.
> We need a little more space, so are looking at the layout with only two seats (in the cab)...and want a newer used model (at least 2016)
> Our research is showing low inventory levels on our desired Class B and prices holding steady ($125K for a 2016)
> Now opening our search and interest to a Leisure Vans Unity 24MB (or Airstream Atlas / Tiffin Wayfarer)

We have the money in the bank, so hope to find one we fall in love with soon.
What did you end up getting?
BH Consumer FAQ: | Car? Used Toyota, Lexus or Miata. | House? 20% down and 3x salary. | Vacation house? No. | Umbrella? $1 million. | Goods? Costco.
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bhwabeck3533
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by bhwabeck3533 »

snackdog wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:18 am
bhwabeck3533 wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:47 am
WhyNotUs wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:18 am How did your test run of the RV go? Are you still on board with the Airstream?
OP here....with an update.

We really enjoyed our brief 5-day rental with a 2014 Class B Airstream Interstate. We overnighted at a couple of state parks in north Georgia and an RV Park near Chattanooga. We learned a LOT.
> Love the Class B. Very easy to handle on the road, and Airstream Interstate is well designed.
> We need a little more space, so are looking at the layout with only two seats (in the cab)...and want a newer used model (at least 2016)
> Our research is showing low inventory levels on our desired Class B and prices holding steady ($125K for a 2016)
> Now opening our search and interest to a Leisure Vans Unity 24MB (or Airstream Atlas / Tiffin Wayfarer)

We have the money in the bank, so hope to find one we fall in love with soon.
What did you end up getting?
Great timing on your question.....

My wife and I are almost two weeks into our first big RV trip in our 2017 Tiffin Wayfarer QW (30K miles at purchase). We bought it from a private seller in Lake Geneva, WI in March and drove it home to South Alabama. Life happenings, RV campsite availability, etc kept our rig in storage through the summer. We really like the Tiffin quality and have enjoyed some Michigan State Park camping (Traverse City and Tahquamenon Falls). Spent last night parked in Brenda's yard two blocks from Lambeau Field in Green Bay. Attended the night game (victory over the Bears) and walked back to our comfy queen bed in the RV. The generator, plumbing, waste, propane systems all very dependable. Great layout when slides are extended -- rear/bedroom and side/dinette.

On the downside, this Mercedes-Benz diesel can be a bit of a nightmare. The California-driven emissions regulations have required MB to overlay some equipment on the engine which is quite problematic. EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve is the heart of our issues. And, I have to mentioned the plethora of lights which illuminate the dashboard when your wheel speed sensor goes bonkers.

That said, we're glad we made the plunge and getting the most out of our "investment".
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by snackdog »

bhwabeck3533 wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:15 am
Great timing on your question.....

My wife and I are almost two weeks into our first big RV trip in our 2017 Tiffin Wayfarer QW (30K miles at purchase). ...
Holy cow. How did you choose the Tiffin over the LTV and Airstream? Does the LTV have the same engine issues?

Thanks
BH Consumer FAQ: | Car? Used Toyota, Lexus or Miata. | House? 20% down and 3x salary. | Vacation house? No. | Umbrella? $1 million. | Goods? Costco.
finite_difference
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by finite_difference »

The more I think about it, it just seems like renting makes the most sense for RVs and campers. And boats.

Unless you use something daily/weekly it may not be worth owning. Especially for high-maintenance items.
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by snackdog »

finite_difference wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:49 am The more I think about it, it just seems like renting makes the most sense for RVs and campers. And boats.

Unless you use something daily/weekly it may not be worth owning. Especially for high-maintenance items.
True, those Tiffins rent for almost $300/night so $10,000 per month. You would still come out ahead after quite a few years of camping 5-6 weeks per year. On the other hand, an owner could put the unit on RVshare or Outdoorsy and rent it out to defray costs.
BH Consumer FAQ: | Car? Used Toyota, Lexus or Miata. | House? 20% down and 3x salary. | Vacation house? No. | Umbrella? $1 million. | Goods? Costco.
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quantAndHold
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by quantAndHold »

snackdog wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:05 am
bhwabeck3533 wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:15 am
Great timing on your question.....

My wife and I are almost two weeks into our first big RV trip in our 2017 Tiffin Wayfarer QW (30K miles at purchase). ...
Holy cow. How did you choose the Tiffin over the LTV and Airstream? Does the LTV have the same engine issues?

Thanks
LTV uses both the Mercedes Sprinter and Ford Transit chassis, although it would be difficult to find a Ford Transit on any 2017ish model, since they had just started using them back then. Airstream also uses the Sprinter. The Sprinter chassis had several recalls, one of which was the wheel speed sensors. OP should see if the recall was done. The wheel speed sensors will also alarm in very heavy side wind sometimes. Shutting down and restarting after the wind dies down fixes the problem. There was no recall on the EGR valve, but I think they extended the warranty on it. Our Sprinter has been a champ.
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quantAndHold
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Re: RV Purchase: Update

Post by quantAndHold »

snackdog wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:10 am
finite_difference wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:49 am The more I think about it, it just seems like renting makes the most sense for RVs and campers. And boats.

Unless you use something daily/weekly it may not be worth owning. Especially for high-maintenance items.
True, those Tiffins rent for almost $300/night so $10,000 per month. You would still come out ahead after quite a few years of camping 5-6 weeks per year. On the other hand, an owner could put the unit on RVshare or Outdoorsy and rent it out to defray costs.
I read something once that said you need to use the typical RV about 8 weeks per year to come out ahead of renting financially. Having said that, there are a lot of nonfinancial advantages to owning (sleeping in your own bed, having it equipped the way you want, flexibility to use it when and how you want, etc).

Renting your RV out on one of the rental sites is a great way to quickly destroy it.
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