What defines a sports car?
What defines a sports car?
What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
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Re: What defines a sports car?
Because acceleration is only one of the components that defines a "sports car"; handling and braking ability are every bit as important. And yes, a modern accord handles and brakes better than a 30yr old corvette as well.Ependytis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
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Re: What defines a sports car?
I guess there are a few distinct things that would make a car “sporty”.Ependytis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
- Engine character (e.g. torque, presence of turbo) and engine noise
- Straightline acceleration, e.g. zero-to-sixty time.
- Handling and steering feel
- Manual or “manumatic” transmission, or automatic transmission configuration (shift points)
- Wheels and brakes
- Body style/appearance (e.g. coupe, ground clearance, spoiler)
- History and tradition of a given model
Re: What defines a sports car?
2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
Re: What defines a sports car?
I had a Ford EXP back in 1982. It had the same platform and powertrain as a Ford Escort. My insurance company priced the Escort insurance cheaply as it was a 'compact sedan' in their eyes. My EXP, again with the exact same powertrain, was priced for insurance as a 'sports car' for the sole reason that it was a two seater.
Re: What defines a sports car?
dailybagel
I guess I would ask what’s behind your question? Trying to satisfy a midlife need for a sports car in a boglehead-approved way with a Honda Accord?
Interesting question, however, it just seems to me that the definition of a sports car has morphed and performance is all relative. Just like our phones have morphed into cameras and vcrs.
I guess I would ask what’s behind your question? Trying to satisfy a midlife need for a sports car in a boglehead-approved way with a Honda Accord?
Interesting question, however, it just seems to me that the definition of a sports car has morphed and performance is all relative. Just like our phones have morphed into cameras and vcrs.
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Re: What defines a sports car?
Yes, of course the definition has evolved. A smartphone has far more computing power than a supercomputer from the 70s, but the supercomputer term still exists.
Its more about whether the car was designed for fun vs practicality.
Its more about whether the car was designed for fun vs practicality.
Re: What defines a sports car?
I would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.Kenkat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
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Re: What defines a sports car?
It's whatever you want it to be.
But if you think straight-line acceleration is the only thing that matters- you're wrong. Or at least I think you're wrong.
But if you think straight-line acceleration is the only thing that matters- you're wrong. Or at least I think you're wrong.
Re: What defines a sports car?
Yeah, I was a maybe on that but throwing out 2+2 eliminates cars like the Nissan Z’s and certain Porsche 911s for example and that seems wrong.dbr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:43 amI would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.Kenkat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
- Doom&Gloom
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Re: What defines a sports car?
I am good with that list. I don't know how many models back one would have to go to find a 2+2 Nissan Z though.Kenkat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:56 amYeah, I was a maybe on that but throwing out 2+2 eliminates cars like the Nissan Z’s and certain Porsche 911s for example and that seems wrong.dbr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:43 amI would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.Kenkat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
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Re: What defines a sports car?
Maserati Merekdbr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:43 amI would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.Kenkat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
TVR Cerbera
Any Camaro/firebird/Challenger
Mitsu 3000gt
Ferrari 456
BMW M3/ original e31 850
Nissan Skyline
Aston Martin DB-___
Nearly all Porsche
Toyota Supra (of the 90s)
Tried to hit something from each the last 4 decades...
Among others, all have some degree of back seats. I would certainly consider them in the sports car category. And most have more credit than say a Fiero/Z3/SLK/Crossfire
Re: What defines a sports car?
Small, light weight.Ependytis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
Power has little to do with "sports car-ness"
Unless you think an SRT10 pick up is a sports car.
Lotus, Miata, 901/911, 356, MG, triumph, fiat, s2000
All the "sports cars" today are really GT's...except Miata and maybe the Lotus and 86.
Re: What defines a sports car?
Two doors, two seat or two plus two, manual trans, and a hardtop. It also helps to have a great design, perhaps be vintage with the corresponding color to match the period, not be something that everybody else has, be a pain is the ass to get in and out of, and if modern be way faster than a car needs to be.
Re: What defines a sports car?
Marketing deciding calling a car a sports car will sell better than call it a GT or a zillion other names. There are a few extreme examples (say a Lotus Elise) that nobody will quibble with but most of the rest will depend on personal definitions.Ependytis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
Re: What defines a sports car?
Two--the fourth-generation 300ZX was available as a 2+2. Yes, it was discontinued 25 years ago. But the 5th gen 350z and especially the 6th gen 370z hung around for a VERY long time.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:01 pm I am good with that list. I don't know how many models back one would have to go to find a 2+2 Nissan Z though.
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Re: What defines a sports car?
Yup, this is it. I have a 2001 BMW Z3 (3.0 convertible) that checks all these boxes. It's the first car my kids watch me pay cash for in 100 dollar bills too.Kenkat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
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Re: What defines a sports car?
Being able to pass uphill (my most Boglehead opinion).Ependytis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
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Re: What defines a sports car?
Locked.
As much as I want to reply, this is neither personal nor actionable. How about reposting something like, "I'm looking for a sports car in the $x to $x range. What even is a sports car these days?"
As much as I want to reply, this is neither personal nor actionable. How about reposting something like, "I'm looking for a sports car in the $x to $x range. What even is a sports car these days?"