What defines a sports car?

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Ependytis
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What defines a sports car?

Post by Ependytis »

What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
stoptothink
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by stoptothink »

Ependytis wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
Because acceleration is only one of the components that defines a "sports car"; handling and braking ability are every bit as important. And yes, a modern accord handles and brakes better than a 30yr old corvette as well.
dailybagel
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by dailybagel »

Ependytis wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
I guess there are a few distinct things that would make a car “sporty”.
  • Engine character (e.g. torque, presence of turbo) and engine noise
  • Straightline acceleration, e.g. zero-to-sixty time.
  • Handling and steering feel
  • Manual or “manumatic” transmission, or automatic transmission configuration (shift points)
  • Wheels and brakes
  • Body style/appearance (e.g. coupe, ground clearance, spoiler)
  • History and tradition of a given model
I guess I would ask what’s behind your question? Trying to satisfy a midlife need for a sports car in a boglehead-approved way with a Honda Accord?
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Kenkat
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by Kenkat »

2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
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CyberBob
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by CyberBob »

Kenkat wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
I had a Ford EXP back in 1982. It had the same platform and powertrain as a Ford Escort. My insurance company priced the Escort insurance cheaply as it was a 'compact sedan' in their eyes. My EXP, again with the exact same powertrain, was priced for insurance as a 'sports car' for the sole reason that it was a two seater. :?
Topic Author
Ependytis
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by Ependytis »

dailybagel
I guess I would ask what’s behind your question? Trying to satisfy a midlife need for a sports car in a boglehead-approved way with a Honda Accord?


Interesting question, however, it just seems to me that the definition of a sports car has morphed and performance is all relative. Just like our phones have morphed into cameras and vcrs.
dukeblue219
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by dukeblue219 »

Yes, of course the definition has evolved. A smartphone has far more computing power than a supercomputer from the 70s, but the supercomputer term still exists.

Its more about whether the car was designed for fun vs practicality.
dbr
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by dbr »

Kenkat wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
I would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.
adamthesmythe
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by adamthesmythe »

It's whatever you want it to be.

But if you think straight-line acceleration is the only thing that matters- you're wrong. Or at least I think you're wrong.
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Kenkat
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by Kenkat »

dbr wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:43 am
Kenkat wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
I would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.
Yeah, I was a maybe on that but throwing out 2+2 eliminates cars like the Nissan Z’s and certain Porsche 911s for example and that seems wrong.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Kenkat wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:56 am
dbr wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:43 am
Kenkat wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
I would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.
Yeah, I was a maybe on that but throwing out 2+2 eliminates cars like the Nissan Z’s and certain Porsche 911s for example and that seems wrong.
I am good with that list. I don't know how many models back one would have to go to find a 2+2 Nissan Z though.
aerosurfer
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by aerosurfer »

dbr wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:43 am
Kenkat wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
I would go with this. Even 2+2 miserable or not is not a sports car though.
Maserati Merek
TVR Cerbera
Any Camaro/firebird/Challenger
Mitsu 3000gt
Ferrari 456
BMW M3/ original e31 850
Nissan Skyline
Aston Martin DB-___
Nearly all Porsche
Toyota Supra (of the 90s)

Tried to hit something from each the last 4 decades...

Among others, all have some degree of back seats. I would certainly consider them in the sports car category. And most have more credit than say a Fiero/Z3/SLK/Crossfire
phxjcc
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by phxjcc »

Ependytis wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
Small, light weight.

Power has little to do with "sports car-ness"
Unless you think an SRT10 pick up is a sports car.

Lotus, Miata, 901/911, 356, MG, triumph, fiat, s2000

All the "sports cars" today are really GT's...except Miata and maybe the Lotus and 86.
260chrisb
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by 260chrisb »

Two doors, two seat or two plus two, manual trans, and a hardtop. It also helps to have a great design, perhaps be vintage with the corresponding color to match the period, not be something that everybody else has, be a pain is the ass to get in and out of, and if modern be way faster than a car needs to be.
randomguy
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by randomguy »

Ependytis wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
Marketing deciding calling a car a sports car will sell better than call it a GT or a zillion other names. There are a few extreme examples (say a Lotus Elise) that nobody will quibble with but most of the rest will depend on personal definitions.
lazydavid
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by lazydavid »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:01 pm I am good with that list. I don't know how many models back one would have to go to find a 2+2 Nissan Z though.
Two--the fourth-generation 300ZX was available as a 2+2. Yes, it was discontinued 25 years ago. But the 5th gen 350z and especially the 6th gen 370z hung around for a VERY long time.
toomanysidehustles
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

Kenkat wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am 2 doors
2 passenger or maybe 2+2 as long as back seat passengers are miserable
Rear wheel drive
Bias towards handling over ride quality
Available with manual transmission (this is changing though)
Smaller, low to ground form factor
Convertible option is nice to have
Robust acceleration but doesn’t have to be a drag racer
Yup, this is it. I have a 2001 BMW Z3 (3.0 convertible) that checks all these boxes. It's the first car my kids watch me pay cash for in 100 dollar bills too. :sharebeer
SmallSaver
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by SmallSaver »

Ependytis wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 am What defines a sports car? If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette, the 0 to 60 times weren’t consistently in the mid 5 seconds until the 90s. Today, the Honda Accord Sport has a 0 to 60 time of 5.5 seconds. In other words, I could have the same performance in a family sedan today that could only be had in a Chevrolet Corvette 30 years ago. If it is really about performance, why not just go with a Tesla in Ludicrous mode that has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds?
Being able to pass uphill (my most Boglehead opinion).
Alex Frakt
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Re: What defines a sports car?

Post by Alex Frakt »

Locked.

As much as I want to reply, this is neither personal nor actionable. How about reposting something like, "I'm looking for a sports car in the $x to $x range. What even is a sports car these days?"
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