Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

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jplee3
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Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by jplee3 »

Has anyone ever replaced a Spanish clay tile roof with something else like asphalt? I'm thinking ahead considering solar panels and hate the idea of getting them installed over Spanish clay tile. That stuff is so brittle and expensive to maintain - we just bought a home with this kind of roof and the previous owners had work/repairs done last year. Since then, they had it painted and we had it fumigated and we have to spend $1800 to repair all the tiles that broke from all of that.

I'm *assuming* asphalt is much more durable where things like this don't happen. And I read/Googled that it also seems to be the best material as far as supporting solar is concerned.

Anyone have input/advice/suggestions on this? Fortunately, there's no HOA in this community so we're not bound by those restrictions and approval nonsense.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by quantAndHold »

Terra cotta tile basically lasts forever unless something falls on it or someone steps on it. Asphalt has to be replaced every 20-25 years. I personally wouldn’t be that keen on getting rid of the terra cotta, even if the solar install is more expensive on the tile roof.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by Sandtrap »

Do you have enough room on your property for a "ground mount" system rather than on the house roof?

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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by cchrissyy »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:22 pm Terra cotta tile basically lasts forever unless something falls on it or someone steps on it. Asphalt has to be replaced every 20-25 years. I personally wouldn’t be that keen on getting rid of the terra cotta, even if the solar install is more expensive on the tile roof.
and I like the look! I would certainly prefer to keep it, especially if your neighborhood style is full of the same.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by adamthesmythe »

It seems that many of the "tile" roofing material is actually concrete. Although these also break sometimes.

A tile roof is like a slate roof. I've had both. They are more expensive than asphalt and require more expensive maintenance. They last forever, or almost forever, if cared for. They are aesthetically superior and replacing with asphalt may reduce the desirability (and value) of your house.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

Having to replace my roof due to damage, I'm discovering that these days you may have to settle for whatever is available, given all the product shortages. At least you may not have the customary choice of style, color, etc.
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Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by Zdex »

jplee3 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:08 pmI'm thinking ahead considering solar panels and hate the idea of getting them installed over Spanish clay tile.
Before making any other move or decision, you need to be certain of your solar plan. I know you asked about the roof. But let's talk about solar.

First, are you really getting the solar system? Are you really going to purchase the solar panels, inverter, batteries, interface, all the wiring, pull the necessary permits, wrangle with the local utility for net metering (if available), and hire both the systems installers and electrician(s) to integrate into your current panel? Are you ready to put in the time to learn the system and learn to troubleshoot basic issues? And is the cost going to pencil out versus utility power? If you're not in a sunbelt state, better triple- and quadruple-check (and recheck again) your energy generation and solar power vs. utility power cost calculations, because solar still is very expensive. If you don't have significant sun, the ROI may take decades, or may never pencil out. If you go to sell, no one wants money-losing solar panels/inverter/batteries.

Second, if you are absolutely certain you are getting solar, where is it going? Are you certain you want it on the roof? If you have the yard space to install solar panels on a nice ground array, let me tell you from experience, this is much preferred over a rooftop installation. You can precisely position (i.e. rotate) and angle ground panels for maximum power generation for an entire year, or revise the position for your individual high-power-usage season (like summer), based on the location of your property on the globe. Also consider, with a roof-based system, you will need a comprehensive analysis of your home's position, roof pitch, and even things like neighboring trees, hills, mountains, etc. All of them can significantly impact solar power generation. If neighboring trees or buildings are blocking sun, this could easily cut your power generation in half, ensuring the system is a bust right from the jump. Have you undertaken this analysis? Will your roof help, or hinder, power generation? Do you know? You need to know.

Further, it is much, much easier to maintain, clean, and service ground-based solar arrays. Sure, you can maintain rooftop panels. Lots of people do. I'm just saying from experience, I found rooftop solar to be a pain in the arse to work on -- and there will be problems now and then. Connections fail, break, short. Wind/rain/snow/leaves/debris all can interfere (or even cripple) solar generation. Panels need to be cleaned -- and cleaned without scratching them. If you've got breakers tripping, you are going to be inspecting every single connection on your system, voltmeter in hand, trying to troubleshoot voltage, amperage, resistance, continuity, etc. (ask me how I know). Ground array was worlds better to work on, to troubleshoot, to clean, to maintain.

So get absolutely certain on every single aspect of your solar system, especially the most important one: are you going to lay out the significant coin to get it installed?
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by jplee3 »

We have an aluma-wood pergola attached to the outside of the home extending into the yard. Could we put a small solar array up there? It's roughly 9x22 feet in dimensions
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by quantAndHold »

We have our solar on the flat roof of our 2 car garage. It’s not enough to cover all of our needs, but it helps.

As far as maintenance and repairs, we’ve had grid tied solar for ten years now. The only maintenance we’ve ever done is to wash the panels with a hose once a year, and the only repairs we’ve needed in the whole time was a fuse (down at ground level) got blown sometime in the first year. I don’t have any idea what maintenance and service the previous post is talking about. Eventually, something will need to be replaced, but if it’s more than once every decade, I would question the quality of the installation.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by vandering »

We went with Ludowici to purchase an indestructible roof that looks like Spanish clay tile with a forever warranty. 2 issues however is sticker shock and they make it in their factory in Ohio one roof at a time so long lead time several months. but absolutely gorgeous.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by quantAndHold »

Zdex wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:01 pm And is the cost going to pencil out versus utility power? If you're not in a sunbelt state, better triple- and quadruple-check (and recheck again) your energy generation and solar power vs. utility power cost calculations, because solar still is very expensive.
OP mentioned in another thread that they’re in Orange County, CA. It’ll pencil out.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by ryman554 »

It's not necessarily the tiles, but the stuff under the tiles that need replacing.

We actually went with a metal roof. Looks like tile from a distance.. please check it out. You may be surprised. A lot cooler in tthe summer than the kiln of a tile roof. Looks tons better than asphalt shingles.

It has the advantage that, if you want to go solar, you just unscrew one part of the roof and install brackets and put it back. Easy peasy.

Tons lighter than the clay, so less stress on your house frame.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by Beensabu »

Why don't you talk to a roofer?

Ideally independent with an established reputation (among people who have had work done by them).

And pay them for their time.

It's a consultation.

And then you have good will. With someone who actually knows.
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jplee3
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by jplee3 »

ryman554 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:11 pm It's not necessarily the tiles, but the stuff under the tiles that need replacing.

We actually went with a metal roof. Looks like tile from a distance.. please check it out. You may be surprised. A lot cooler in tthe summer than the kiln of a tile roof. Looks tons better than asphalt shingles.

It has the advantage that, if you want to go solar, you just unscrew one part of the roof and install brackets and put it back. Easy peasy.

Tons lighter than the clay, so less stress on your house frame.
What brand metal roofing? It stays surprisingly cool in the heat - it was probably in the 80s outside and was in the 70s inside the home. Such a drastic change coming from a 2/1 apartment where it would match or exceed the outside temps lol
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:22 pm Having to replace my roof due to damage, I'm discovering that these days you may have to settle for whatever is available, given all the product shortages. At least you may not have the customary choice of style, color, etc.
We have not seen these shortages so far.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by mary1492 »

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Last edited by mary1492 on Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
tibbitts
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:30 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:22 pm Having to replace my roof due to damage, I'm discovering that these days you may have to settle for whatever is available, given all the product shortages. At least you may not have the customary choice of style, color, etc.
We have not seen these shortages so far.
Almost everyone in my city has had to replace their roof this year (since April) due to damage; some are still in progress, but are trying to finish by winter. Even with suppliers bringing in product from some distance there appears to be an actual shortage of many styles and colors. I verified this somewhat when I was told I couldn't get the product I wanted: I contacted the manufacturer directly and was told that indeed I would be unlikely to be able to buy more than two of the usual six color variations anywhere, not just in my area. They have a Covid availability notice on their website but still list all the products; however it turns out all but a couple of them aren't actually available. Earlier in the year roof decking (replacement is a required code upgrade when replacing any of the roofs in my neighborhood) was also in short supply and delayed many of the projects. Most houses also have multiple broken windows, and many of them will be boarded up until sometime in 2022 due to a shortage of windows.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:37 am
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:30 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:22 pm Having to replace my roof due to damage, I'm discovering that these days you may have to settle for whatever is available, given all the product shortages. At least you may not have the customary choice of style, color, etc.
We have not seen these shortages so far.
Almost everyone in my city has had to replace their roof this year (since April) due to damage; some are still in progress, but are trying to finish by winter. Even with suppliers bringing in product from some distance there appears to be an actual shortage of many styles and colors. I verified this somewhat when I was told I couldn't get the product I wanted: I contacted the manufacturer directly and was told that indeed I would be unlikely to be able to buy more than two of the usual six color variations anywhere, not just in my area. They have a Covid availability notice on their website but still list all the products; however it turns out all but a couple of them aren't actually available. Earlier in the year roof decking (replacement is a required code upgrade when replacing any of the roofs in my neighborhood) was also in short supply and delayed many of the projects. Most houses also have multiple broken windows, and many of them will be boarded up until sometime in 2022 due to a shortage of windows.
Intereseting area I guess - one of our roofs were replaced just this past month (Oct) and we had no issues getting decking (plywood), underlayment, drip edge , gutters or shingles. Similarly they mentioned they had a number of roofs on teh schdule over the next few months so finishing ours on time in 7 days or less was a priority - inspections took longer.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:47 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:37 am
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:30 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:22 pm Having to replace my roof due to damage, I'm discovering that these days you may have to settle for whatever is available, given all the product shortages. At least you may not have the customary choice of style, color, etc.
We have not seen these shortages so far.
Almost everyone in my city has had to replace their roof this year (since April) due to damage; some are still in progress, but are trying to finish by winter. Even with suppliers bringing in product from some distance there appears to be an actual shortage of many styles and colors. I verified this somewhat when I was told I couldn't get the product I wanted: I contacted the manufacturer directly and was told that indeed I would be unlikely to be able to buy more than two of the usual six color variations anywhere, not just in my area. They have a Covid availability notice on their website but still list all the products; however it turns out all but a couple of them aren't actually available. Earlier in the year roof decking (replacement is a required code upgrade when replacing any of the roofs in my neighborhood) was also in short supply and delayed many of the projects. Most houses also have multiple broken windows, and many of them will be boarded up until sometime in 2022 due to a shortage of windows.
Intereseting area I guess - one of our roofs were replaced just this past month (Oct) and we had no issues getting decking (plywood), underlayment, drip edge , gutters or shingles. Similarly they mentioned they had a number of roofs on teh schdule over the next few months so finishing ours on time in 7 days or less was a priority - inspections took longer.
If I hadn't had spoken to the manufacturer directly (someone responsible for distribution to suppliers) I would have thought that it was only a regional issue (since distribution seems to be regional), but apparently production has been significantly impacted and seems to be reflected in limited availability of less popular styles/colors. I'm not aware of any shortage in drip edge, underlayment, or gutters. Decking (OSB, I don't think anyone is using plywood at this point in this region at least) is now seemingly available again. It seems like roofing firms here are probably still doing as many roofs per day as they have crews to accommodate.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:00 am
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:47 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:37 am
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:30 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:22 pm Having to replace my roof due to damage, I'm discovering that these days you may have to settle for whatever is available, given all the product shortages. At least you may not have the customary choice of style, color, etc.
We have not seen these shortages so far.
Almost everyone in my city has had to replace their roof this year (since April) due to damage; some are still in progress, but are trying to finish by winter. Even with suppliers bringing in product from some distance there appears to be an actual shortage of many styles and colors. I verified this somewhat when I was told I couldn't get the product I wanted: I contacted the manufacturer directly and was told that indeed I would be unlikely to be able to buy more than two of the usual six color variations anywhere, not just in my area. They have a Covid availability notice on their website but still list all the products; however it turns out all but a couple of them aren't actually available. Earlier in the year roof decking (replacement is a required code upgrade when replacing any of the roofs in my neighborhood) was also in short supply and delayed many of the projects. Most houses also have multiple broken windows, and many of them will be boarded up until sometime in 2022 due to a shortage of windows.
Intereseting area I guess - one of our roofs were replaced just this past month (Oct) and we had no issues getting decking (plywood), underlayment, drip edge , gutters or shingles. Similarly they mentioned they had a number of roofs on teh schdule over the next few months so finishing ours on time in 7 days or less was a priority - inspections took longer.
If I hadn't had spoken to the manufacturer directly (someone responsible for distribution to suppliers) I would have thought that it was only a regional issue (since distribution seems to be regional), but apparently production has been significantly impacted and seems to be reflected in limited availability of less popular styles/colors. I'm not aware of any shortage in drip edge, underlayment, or gutters. Decking (OSB, I don't think anyone is using plywood at this point in this region at least) is now seemingly available again. It seems like roofing firms here are probably still doing as many roofs per day as they have crews to accommodate.
We prefer plywood over OSB as does the builders in all areas that we have been in - yes more expensive. No problems with getting the Tamko shingles in any colors that we had seen on their brochure.

"It seems like roofing firms here are probably still doing as many roofs per day as they have crews to accommodate."
Your statement here tells me that this is likely a labor shortage being disguised as a material shortage - since they are doing as many roofs as possible with the crews available.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by Valuethinker »

jplee3 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:08 pm Has anyone ever replaced a Spanish clay tile roof with something else like asphalt? I'm thinking ahead considering solar panels and hate the idea of getting them installed over Spanish clay tile. That stuff is so brittle and expensive to maintain - we just bought a home with this kind of roof and the previous owners had work/repairs done last year. Since then, they had it painted and we had it fumigated and we have to spend $1800 to repair all the tiles that broke from all of that.

I'm *assuming* asphalt is much more durable where things like this don't happen. And I read/Googled that it also seems to be the best material as far as supporting solar is concerned.

Anyone have input/advice/suggestions on this? Fortunately, there's no HOA in this community so we're not bound by those restrictions and approval nonsense.
Be careful not to have a cheaper roof surface than your neighbours. You will lose that value w you try to sell, if it is obvious.

Clay roof tiles are one of the lightest and thermally effective (in hot climates) surfaces you can get. Much better than synthetic roof slates w last 20 to 25 years at best.

Replace only if you must.

I would agree w Tibbitts that there seem to be shortages in just about everything right now. A consistent story both in the UK, Europe & North America. I would imagine roof tiles as well.

Gas for drying is a significant component of rooftile costs I believe. So record natural gas prices will have an effect on world supply.

Also shipping costs per container are at something like 13 year highs. So that will hit all imports. Also US ports are seriously overcrowded. Huge delays getting containers thru.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:07 am Your statement here tells me that this is likely a labor shortage being disguised as a material shortage - since they are doing as many roofs as possible with the crews available.
I don't think the manufacturer would have been concerned about a crew shortage.

I agree that from my research, plywood would be preferable for a roof, but is more expensive than OSB - especially the better grades obviously. In these cases there is already a layer of dimensional lumber decking (1x8, whatever) underneath the OSB, which probably does help with some of the OSB-related issues with nails backing out, etc. There's a limit to how much insurance will pay (such as it won't typically pay to remove and replace decking that isn't damaged.) These are mostly $200k and under houses, and typical repairs are probably in the $50k range.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:29 am
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:07 am Your statement here tells me that this is likely a labor shortage being disguised as a material shortage - since they are doing as many roofs as possible with the crews available.
I don't think the manufacturer would have been concerned about a crew shortage.

I agree that from my research, plywood would be preferable for a roof, but is more expensive than OSB - especially the better grades obviously. In these cases there is already a layer of dimensional lumber decking (1x8, whatever) underneath the OSB, which probably does help with some of the OSB-related issues with nails backing out, etc. There's a limit to how much insurance will pay (such as it won't typically pay to remove and replace decking that isn't damaged.) These are mostly $200k and under houses, and typical repairs are probably in the $50k range.
"I don't think the manufacturer would have been concerned about a crew shortage."
Your observation in your area is the the limiting amount of roof work being done is crew related - not mine.
There are a number of very good manufacturers of roofing materials - at any one point in time I am sure they each have shortages.

FWIW - when we maintain and/or repair anything (homes, cars, boats, etc) we do not figure the costs due to insurance coverage.
We determine the level of work we want done and do the job to that level regardless of what our OOP costs will be.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:40 am Your observation in your area is the the limiting amount of roof work being done is crew related - not mine.
There are a number of very good manufacturers of roofing materials - at any one point in time I am sure they each have shortages.

FWIW - when we maintain and/or repair anything (homes, cars, boats, etc) we do not figure the costs due to insurance coverage.
We determine the level of work we want done and do the job to that level regardless of what our OOP costs will be.
My point was only that the manufacturer would have no reason to say there are material shortages because of lack of roofing crews. I'm not having a problem getting work scheduled, only in getting specific shingle styles/colors I want. I know from others' experiences that some roofers have initially balked at obtaining certain styles and colors in certain cases, which is why I verified lack of availability with the manufacturer. There is no universal shortage of asphalt roofing in general that I know of, as long as you're willing to use styles and colors that are available.

You may be the only person who who doesn't factor in OOP costs when making repairs to houses, cars, boats, etc. If I were building a higher-end house from scratch, I might spend the extra for plywood, especially without dimensional decking underneath. But the OSB vs. plywood debate is trivial relative to, for example, my roof not having current-code-compliant storm-resistant rafter ties. And if I upgraded to retrofit rafter ties, then I might prioritize using metal roofing vs. asphalt next, rather than using plywood vs. OSB. The "level of work" I want done is almost always more ambitious than the level of work I'm willing/able to obtain/pay for.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:40 am
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:40 am Your observation in your area is the the limiting amount of roof work being done is crew related - not mine.
There are a number of very good manufacturers of roofing materials - at any one point in time I am sure they each have shortages.

FWIW - when we maintain and/or repair anything (homes, cars, boats, etc) we do not figure the costs due to insurance coverage.
We determine the level of work we want done and do the job to that level regardless of what our OOP costs will be.
My point was only that the manufacturer would have no reason to say there are material shortages because of lack of roofing crews. I'm not having a problem getting work scheduled, only in getting specific shingle styles/colors I want. I know from others' experiences that some roofers have initially balked at obtaining certain styles and colors in certain cases, which is why I verified lack of availability with the manufacturer. There is no universal shortage of asphalt roofing in general that I know of, as long as you're willing to use styles and colors that are available.

You may be the only person who who doesn't factor in OOP costs when making repairs to houses, cars, boats, etc. If I were building a higher-end house from scratch, I might spend the extra for plywood, especially without dimensional decking underneath. But the OSB vs. plywood debate is trivial relative to, for example, my roof not having current-code-compliant storm-resistant rafter ties. And if I upgraded to retrofit rafter ties, then I might prioritize using metal roofing vs. asphalt next, rather than using plywood vs. OSB. The "level of work" I want done is almost always more ambitious than the level of work I'm willing/able to obtain/pay for.
"You may be the only person who who doesn't factor in OOP costs when making repairs to houses, cars, boats, etc."
We set our level of quality and we work to that - what else is better than working to your own specs?
Otherwise said - if your insurance was to only cover 50% of the estimated costs would you somehow try to do the entire job for 1/2 the price?

"The "level of work" I want done is almost always more ambitious than the level of work I'm willing/able to obtain/pay for."
The level of work you really want done is what you are willing to do or pay - its really that simple.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:38 pm Otherwise said - if your insurance was to only cover 50% of the estimated costs would you somehow try to do the entire job for 1/2 the price?
It depends: if my house needs $7k in estimated work and after my $3.5k deductible insurance only pays $3.5k, then I won't try to do the work for half price; I'll assume I'll have to come up with more or less another $3.5k on my own. If the house "needs" $70k in estimated work and insurance is only paying $35k (after I've determined that their adjustment for $38.5k replacement cost is fair), I may well try to get the work done to one extent or another for $38.5k. It probably won't be done the way I'd like it to be done or think it should be done, but not getting my way has been a pretty routine outcome in my life.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:08 pm
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:38 pm Otherwise said - if your insurance was to only cover 50% of the estimated costs would you somehow try to do the entire job for 1/2 the price?
It depends: if my house needs $7k in estimated work and after my $3.5k deductible insurance only pays $3.5k, then I won't try to do the work for half price; I'll assume I'll have to come up with more or less another $3.5k on my own. If the house "needs" $70k in estimated work and insurance is only paying $35k (after I've determined that their adjustment for $38.5k replacement cost is fair), I may well try to get the work done to one extent or another for $38.5k. It probably won't be done the way I'd like it to be done or think it should be done, but not getting my way has been a pretty routine outcome in my life.
"but not getting my way has been a pretty routine outcome in my life."
Sorry to hear it - I would not have thought that or expected that.
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:11 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:08 pm
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:38 pm Otherwise said - if your insurance was to only cover 50% of the estimated costs would you somehow try to do the entire job for 1/2 the price?
It depends: if my house needs $7k in estimated work and after my $3.5k deductible insurance only pays $3.5k, then I won't try to do the work for half price; I'll assume I'll have to come up with more or less another $3.5k on my own. If the house "needs" $70k in estimated work and insurance is only paying $35k (after I've determined that their adjustment for $38.5k replacement cost is fair), I may well try to get the work done to one extent or another for $38.5k. It probably won't be done the way I'd like it to be done or think it should be done, but not getting my way has been a pretty routine outcome in my life.
"but not getting my way has been a pretty routine outcome in my life."
Sorry to hear it - I would not have thought that or expected that.
As I mentioned it just happened again two days ago when I found out that my choice (within reasonable cost constraints) for roofing was unavailable and discontinued by the manufacturer. Incidentally what's with the limited "cool" (energy star, whatever) asphalt shingle selections with class 4 ratings?
123
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by 123 »

Before you replace your Spanish clay tile roof with asphalt consider carefully whether asphalt "fits" with the style of your house and nearby houses in the neighborhood. If all the nearby homes are Spanish clay tile and you switch to asphalt your house may immediately become the "ugly duckling" of the neighborhood. Might make it harder to sell down the road, or you may have to take a lot less for it.

An alternative to Spanish clay tile is concrete tile which is used on many newer homes. One consideration with fancy roof coverings like Spanish clay tile or concrete tile is whether the roof is structurally strong enough to support the heavier weights involved.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
smitcat
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:46 pm
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:11 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:08 pm
smitcat wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:38 pm Otherwise said - if your insurance was to only cover 50% of the estimated costs would you somehow try to do the entire job for 1/2 the price?
It depends: if my house needs $7k in estimated work and after my $3.5k deductible insurance only pays $3.5k, then I won't try to do the work for half price; I'll assume I'll have to come up with more or less another $3.5k on my own. If the house "needs" $70k in estimated work and insurance is only paying $35k (after I've determined that their adjustment for $38.5k replacement cost is fair), I may well try to get the work done to one extent or another for $38.5k. It probably won't be done the way I'd like it to be done or think it should be done, but not getting my way has been a pretty routine outcome in my life.
"but not getting my way has been a pretty routine outcome in my life."
Sorry to hear it - I would not have thought that or expected that.
As I mentioned it just happened again two days ago when I found out that my choice (within reasonable cost constraints) for roofing was unavailable and discontinued by the manufacturer. Incidentally what's with the limited "cool" (energy star, whatever) asphalt shingle selections with class 4 ratings?
Discontinued is different from out of stock - when we were selecting the color (not the brand/type) we would already know what is current and what would have been discontinued. Just looked at the brochure we chose from and their were 19 colors to chose from at the time. It took about 4 weeks to get a number of quotes and select a suitable vendor/roofer. After that it was about two weeks before they started the roof and about one week from start to completion - not all of the inspections were complete but the roof was. It was a larger roof job and they had not problems getting the color or materials to the job site - I just looked up the completed date it was 9/18 Inspectors were not out to complete their required inspections untill October.
If you take months/years to decide on a project I guess the supplies could become discontinued but I do not see how that could happen if you are actively completing a project.
Our interest on specific materials ratings and/or approvals would depend on the area the home was in and the affect that it may or may not have on its lifetime and insurance. Our roof up north was different materials then our roof down south due to these considerations.
With all these issues what is your choice of roofing materials? Manufacturer? Choice of color? General area of installation?
tibbitts
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:49 am With all these issues what is your choice of roofing materials? Manufacturer? Choice of color? General area of installation?
Since you asked...

I started the process in early May. It took until September to come to an agreement with insurance over the scope of work. Not so much amounts, since those vary over time and insurance covers the amount applicable at the time of repair, up to two years from the date of loss. I got as many estimates as contractors would provide without cost, which was only two, and only one in Xactimate format, which was more or less essential in arguing with the insurance company (maybe other companies use different software.) I understand contractors not wanting to do those estimates for free; they take a long time to prepare, including the property inspection and report preparation. Here in Oklahoma following large-scale storms (and this was one of the largest - not the most severe, but widespread in terms of roof/window/siding damage) contractors will almost never provide estimates at all. If you sign over all your insurance compensation to them, they will replace your roof and address your other damage to varying extents, in exchange for whatever money they can get out of the insurance company. Alternatively you could utilize a public adjuster, but when I investigated that, there seemed to be a certain level(s) of damage where that's financially practical, and others where it's not. During ordinary times of course you can get detailed roof estimates from as many roofers as you choose.

Anyway with regard to the roof specifically, after months of arguing with insurance (since I didn't want to just sign away the insurance payments), I still haven't had any work started, while almost everyone else has had their work mostly or entirely completed. Insurance finally agreed to pay for adding (not replacing) the decking, and installing a "slate-look" asphalt shingle class 4 roof (with the usual allowances for underlayment, ice/water seal, drip edge, flashing, etc.) I had wanted to find a class 4 energy-star (in almost any color, although it would likely have been silver) "slate-look" shingle. The closest I could come was Atlas Chalkstone (not energy-star, but the reflectance was more than other shingles I could find.) Although it could seemingly be ordered from multiple online sources, when I went to actually buy it, it appeared to be unavailable in the quantity I needed. It was available - but not enough of it and the corresponding ridge shingles. So I contacted the manufacturer, and was told that they would be surprised if I could find enough of it in the supply chain, and that it had been "temporarily" discontinued. So I'm not saying it's not available anywhere; I'm just saying that I've given up on being able to get enough of it where I need it (obviously without incurring additional fees) for this application. Actually that's the exact same story I just got last from multiple tire dealers (followed up by distributors) about the tires I was interested in buying for my car; again I contacted both dealers and distributors and was told "no." But in that case I followed up with the manufacturer and was told they are still in production and should be available.

To be clear I'm adding the energy-star ("cool roof", or at least cooler-color) aspect to the roof I already had, since it shouldn't cost more.

Anyway I'm tired and frustrated by the entire process now and am just going back to the shingles I already had installed after the last storm damage in 2009, and have really stopped caring. I guess I'll have the satisfaction of getting more related damage compensation than I would have gotten originally, in exchange for going through the winter with boarded up windows and days lost fighting with insurance. This week another storm did enough damage to a much smaller number of houses here that they're having their roofs (including class 4) replaced again - twice in one year - so especially in light of that it was stupid for me to waste so much time on this.
smitcat
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:00 am
smitcat wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:49 am With all these issues what is your choice of roofing materials? Manufacturer? Choice of color? General area of installation?
Since you asked...

I started the process in early May. It took until September to come to an agreement with insurance over the scope of work. Not so much amounts, since those vary over time and insurance covers the amount applicable at the time of repair, up to two years from the date of loss. I got as many estimates as contractors would provide without cost, which was only two, and only one in Xactimate format, which was more or less essential in arguing with the insurance company (maybe other companies use different software.) I understand contractors not wanting to do those estimates for free; they take a long time to prepare, including the property inspection and report preparation. Here in Oklahoma following large-scale storms (and this was one of the largest - not the most severe, but widespread in terms of roof/window/siding damage) contractors will almost never provide estimates at all. If you sign over all your insurance compensation to them, they will replace your roof and address your other damage to varying extents, in exchange for whatever money they can get out of the insurance company. Alternatively you could utilize a public adjuster, but when I investigated that, there seemed to be a certain level(s) of damage where that's financially practical, and others where it's not. During ordinary times of course you can get detailed roof estimates from as many roofers as you choose.

Anyway with regard to the roof specifically, after months of arguing with insurance (since I didn't want to just sign away the insurance payments), I still haven't had any work started, while almost everyone else has had their work mostly or entirely completed. Insurance finally agreed to pay for adding (not replacing) the decking, and installing a "slate-look" asphalt shingle class 4 roof (with the usual allowances for underlayment, ice/water seal, drip edge, flashing, etc.) I had wanted to find a class 4 energy-star (in almost any color, although it would likely have been silver) "slate-look" shingle. The closest I could come was Atlas Chalkstone (not energy-star, but the reflectance was more than other shingles I could find.) Although it could seemingly be ordered from multiple online sources, when I went to actually buy it, it appeared to be unavailable in the quantity I needed. It was available - but not enough of it and the corresponding ridge shingles. So I contacted the manufacturer, and was told that they would be surprised if I could find enough of it in the supply chain, and that it had been "temporarily" discontinued. So I'm not saying it's not available anywhere; I'm just saying that I've given up on being able to get enough of it where I need it (obviously without incurring additional fees) for this application. Actually that's the exact same story I just got last from multiple tire dealers (followed up by distributors) about the tires I was interested in buying for my car; again I contacted both dealers and distributors and was told "no." But in that case I followed up with the manufacturer and was told they are still in production and should be available.

To be clear I'm adding the energy-star ("cool roof", or at least cooler-color) aspect to the roof I already had, since it shouldn't cost more.

Anyway I'm tired and frustrated by the entire process now and am just going back to the shingles I already had installed after the last storm damage in 2009, and have really stopped caring. I guess I'll have the satisfaction of getting more related damage compensation than I would have gotten originally, in exchange for going through the winter with boarded up windows and days lost fighting with insurance. This week another storm did enough damage to a much smaller number of houses here that they're having their roofs (including class 4) replaced again - twice in one year - so especially in light of that it was stupid for me to waste so much time on this.

"I started the process in early May."
I guess the roof is not that bad otherwise you would have getting additional damage over time.
Based on your posts involving Roth converts, RV's , homes, trucks, and travel I am surprised this story is so long and time consuming.
There is an expresion left over from a long time back called 'target fixation' that I learned a lot from.

You are much more patient and maybe "XXXX" then we are (no idea what the XXXX stands for you can fill that in with whatever you like.
Life goes on for many things, no time for us for these delayed and intensive problems. We are traveling, buying and selling homes, cars, trucks, boats all since 2019 - cannot imagine waiting for any one of these to complete.

Wishing you good luck with your future path, experiences, and results.
tibbitts
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by tibbitts »

smitcat wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:25 am "I started the process in early May."
I guess the roof is not that bad otherwise you would have getting additional damage over time.
Based on your posts involving Roth converts, RV's , homes, trucks, and travel I am surprised this story is so long and time consuming.
There is an expresion left over from a long time back called 'target fixation' that I learned a lot from.

You are much more patient and maybe "XXXX" then we are (no idea what the XXXX stands for you can fill that in with whatever you like.
Life goes on for many things, no time for us for these delayed and intensive problems. We are traveling, buying and selling homes, cars, trucks, boats all since 2019 - cannot imagine waiting for any one of these to complete.

Wishing you good luck with your future path, experiences, and results.
Correct on it not being that bad: I have plastic tubs in the attic where the roof leaks, and the water evaporates before it can fill the tubs.

On the one hand, it's been wasted time; on the other hand, since March 2020 I haven't had much else to do. In the three months I had between my retirement date at the end of 2019 and the pandemic: two cruises, three road trips, shopping for a new RV, etc. Life has completely changed, so maybe now the most exciting thing I'll ever do is search for roof shingles. Maybe "delayed and intensive problems" will be the highlight of life going forward.

But given
We set our level of quality and we work to that - what else is better than working to your own specs?
there is absolutely no way you would have settled for a less than optimal result from the insurance adjuster, or for the same old roof as I'm ultimately doing. Even if it meant missing out on all that travel, and the cars, trucks, etc. You probably would have set up your own production facility to manufacture the exact shingles you wanted. So you'd have a warehouse with 100,000 squares of those, 40 of which you needed for yourself. And then you'd think "well, at least there's this one guy on Bogleheads who'll probably buy another 40 or so from me..." But not for msrp, of course.
smitcat
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:51 am

Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:36 am
smitcat wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:25 am "I started the process in early May."
I guess the roof is not that bad otherwise you would have getting additional damage over time.
Based on your posts involving Roth converts, RV's , homes, trucks, and travel I am surprised this story is so long and time consuming.
There is an expresion left over from a long time back called 'target fixation' that I learned a lot from.

You are much more patient and maybe "XXXX" then we are (no idea what the XXXX stands for you can fill that in with whatever you like.
Life goes on for many things, no time for us for these delayed and intensive problems. We are traveling, buying and selling homes, cars, trucks, boats all since 2019 - cannot imagine waiting for any one of these to complete.

Wishing you good luck with your future path, experiences, and results.
Correct on it not being that bad: I have plastic tubs in the attic where the roof leaks, and the water evaporates before it can fill the tubs.

On the one hand, it's been wasted time; on the other hand, since March 2020 I haven't had much else to do. In the three months I had between my retirement date at the end of 2019 and the pandemic: two cruises, three road trips, shopping for a new RV, etc. Life has completely changed, so maybe now the most exciting thing I'll ever do is search for roof shingles. Maybe "delayed and intensive problems" will be the highlight of life going forward.

But given
We set our level of quality and we work to that - what else is better than working to your own specs?
there is absolutely no way you would have settled for a less than optimal result from the insurance adjuster, or for the same old roof as I'm ultimately doing. Even if it meant missing out on all that travel, and the cars, trucks, etc. You probably would have set up your own production facility to manufacture the exact shingles you wanted. So you'd have a warehouse with 100,000 squares of those, 40 of which you needed for yourself. And then you'd think "well, at least there's this one guy on Bogleheads who'll probably buy another 40 or so from me..." But not for msrp, of course.
"Life has completely changed, so maybe now the most exciting thing I'll ever do is search for roof shingles."
FWIW - life has not completely changed for us, pandemic is terrible but life goes on.

"there is absolutely no way you would have settled for a less than optimal result from the insurance adjuster, or for the same old roof as I'm ultimately doing."
We have settled for less than what we thought were optimal results from insurance in the past , sometimes its just that way.

"You probably would have set up your own production facility to manufacture the exact shingles you wanted."
Never with a roof or shingles, perhaps once or twice with a car and once with a business.

"But not for msrp, of course."
It depends, buying cars/trucks for MSRP has been good the past 3 or so years.
ryman554
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Re: Replacing Spanish clay tile roof with other material?

Post by ryman554 »

jplee3 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:23 pm
ryman554 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:11 pm It's not necessarily the tiles, but the stuff under the tiles that need replacing.

We actually went with a metal roof. Looks like tile from a distance.. please check it out. You may be surprised. A lot cooler in tthe summer than the kiln of a tile roof. Looks tons better than asphalt shingles.

It has the advantage that, if you want to go solar, you just unscrew one part of the roof and install brackets and put it back. Easy peasy.

Tons lighter than the clay, so less stress on your house frame.
What brand metal roofing? It stays surprisingly cool in the heat - it was probably in the 80s outside and was in the 70s inside the home. Such a drastic change coming from a 2/1 apartment where it would match or exceed the outside temps lol
Had to go look it up. Tilcor. Don't ask which color... We went for one that didn't look like "red" clay. More brownish..

But it is seriously cooler in the summer... And since bay area (or socal) has no winter....
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