Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

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is50xenough
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Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

Kid uses a self powered scooter. Wears bike helmet but has fallen a couple times and is looking for something that offers better protection to chin, face in addition to head. Started looking at motorcycle helmets but they seem so big and wonder if they affect ability to hear. Wondered about motocross helmets as some have smaller profile but seem to offer full face, chin and head protection.

What are suggestions with best bang for buck---meaning lower cost without sacrificing protection and ability to hear?

Have to be some helmet experts in this crowd, no?
ThankYouJack
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by ThankYouJack »

What about a full-face bicycle helmet? They can be pricey but cheaper than going to the dentist
SmallSaver
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by SmallSaver »

is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:39 pm Kid uses a self powered scooter. Wears bike helmet but has fallen a couple times and is looking for something that offers better protection to chin, face in addition to head. Started looking at motorcycle helmets but they seem so big and wonder if they affect ability to hear. Wondered about motocross helmets as some have smaller profile but seem to offer full face, chin and head protection.

What are suggestions with best bang for buck---meaning lower cost without sacrificing protection and ability to hear?

Have to be some helmet experts in this crowd, no?
Maybe a downhill mountain bike helmet? That's the lightest full-face I can think of.
oldmotos
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by oldmotos »

Definitely look at bike helmets with more protection as full face motorcycle helmets can be too heavy for your needs.
hicabob
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by hicabob »

Bicycle helmets with a "MIPS" system are better than those without in some crashes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-dir ... ion_System
Topic Author
is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:43 pm What about a full-face bicycle helmet? They can be pricey but cheaper than going to the dentist
Anything good with me since I know nothing. Can you suggest a brand, model, etc?
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

SmallSaver wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:44 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:39 pm Kid uses a self powered scooter. Wears bike helmet but has fallen a couple times and is looking for something that offers better protection to chin, face in addition to head. Started looking at motorcycle helmets but they seem so big and wonder if they affect ability to hear. Wondered about motocross helmets as some have smaller profile but seem to offer full face, chin and head protection.

What are suggestions with best bang for buck---meaning lower cost without sacrificing protection and ability to hear?

Have to be some helmet experts in this crowd, no?
Maybe a downhill mountain bike helmet? That's the lightest full-face I can think of.
Wondered if that might be good solution---any suggestions for make and model?
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

oldmotos wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 pm Definitely look at bike helmets with more protection as full face motorcycle helmets can be too heavy for your needs.
Agree based on looking more closely at stuff I've never used. Was hoping there would be experts on the group who might suggest a worthwhile brand/model
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

hicabob wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:23 pm Bicycle helmets with a "MIPS" system are better than those without in some crashes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-dir ... ion_System
Thanks. Will be on look out for helmets that are "mips" certified if such a thing. Sounds like should consider ski helmets too....
SmallSaver
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by SmallSaver »

is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:24 pm
SmallSaver wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:44 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:39 pm Kid uses a self powered scooter. Wears bike helmet but has fallen a couple times and is looking for something that offers better protection to chin, face in addition to head. Started looking at motorcycle helmets but they seem so big and wonder if they affect ability to hear. Wondered about motocross helmets as some have smaller profile but seem to offer full face, chin and head protection.

What are suggestions with best bang for buck---meaning lower cost without sacrificing protection and ability to hear?

Have to be some helmet experts in this crowd, no?
Maybe a downhill mountain bike helmet? That's the lightest full-face I can think of.
Wondered if that might be good solution---any suggestions for make and model?
I'm afraid not, I don't ride myself. I have lots of helmets for other stuff though and would recommend trying a few on, fit is important. Also note that bike product cycles move fast, so you can generally find older versions of things for pretty deep discounts. I'd pay a little attention to weight too, there's a spectrum of uses that edges up towards (powered) motocross helmets, so some will be way more heavy duty and heavier than others. You'll see MIPS mentioned which is kind of a long story (most helmets across sports don't prevent concussions that well, they're more to prevent skull fractures. MIPS is a proprietary technology that does better with concussions but adds cost). Long story short, I'd find a good local bike store and go from there. If you want to find a deal poke around discount mountain biking web sites. That's the best I can do.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by quantAndHold »

How often does the kid fall? Regular bike helmets are only made for one knock on the head, then they’re supposed to be replaced.

Maybe you should look into skateboard helmets.
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

SmallSaver wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:32 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:24 pm
SmallSaver wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:44 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:39 pm Kid uses a self powered scooter. Wears bike helmet but has fallen a couple times and is looking for something that offers better protection to chin, face in addition to head. Started looking at motorcycle helmets but they seem so big and wonder if they affect ability to hear. Wondered about motocross helmets as some have smaller profile but seem to offer full face, chin and head protection.

What are suggestions with best bang for buck---meaning lower cost without sacrificing protection and ability to hear?

Have to be some helmet experts in this crowd, no?
Maybe a downhill mountain bike helmet? That's the lightest full-face I can think of.
Wondered if that might be good solution---any suggestions for make and model?
I'm afraid not, I don't ride myself. I have lots of helmets for other stuff though and would recommend trying a few on, fit is important. Also note that bike product cycles move fast, so you can generally find older versions of things for pretty deep discounts. I'd pay a little attention to weight too, there's a spectrum of uses that edges up towards (powered) motocross helmets, so some will be way more heavy duty and heavier than others. You'll see MIPS mentioned which is kind of a long story (most helmets across sports don't prevent concussions that well, they're more to prevent skull fractures. MIPS is a proprietary technology that does better with concussions but adds cost). Long story short, I'd find a good local bike store and go from there. If you want to find a deal poke around discount mountain biking web sites. That's the best I can do.
Thanks. Appreciate all comments
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

quantAndHold wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm How often does the kid fall? Regular bike helmets are only made for one knock on the head, then they’re supposed to be replaced.

Maybe you should look into skateboard helmets.
Fallen more than once and for sure needs a new helmet that given more full face protection. Thanks for skateboard suggestion although not clear to me what would call a helmet skateboard vs motocross vs bike vs scooter to be honest. Although the ones that come up searching for skateboard are pretty cool looking.
AnEngineer
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by AnEngineer »

is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:48 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm How often does the kid fall? Regular bike helmets are only made for one knock on the head, then they’re supposed to be replaced.

Maybe you should look into skateboard helmets.
Fallen more than once and for sure needs a new helmet that given more full face protection. Thanks for skateboard suggestion although not clear to me what would call a helmet skateboard vs motocross vs bike vs scooter to be honest. Although the ones that come up searching for skateboard are pretty cool looking.
Perhaps you didn't pick up that bike helmets are not designed to work after the first use.

There are different certifications for different uses, is research that more closely to help find what you're looking for.
ThankYouJack
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by ThankYouJack »

is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:23 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:43 pm What about a full-face bicycle helmet? They can be pricey but cheaper than going to the dentist
Anything good with me since I know nothing. Can you suggest a brand, model, etc?
I don't have direct experience with them, but I googled it and this came up - https://thebikedads.com/full-face-helmets/
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telemark
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by telemark »

Personally, I use a Thousand helmet, which is dual certified for skating and biking. For kids I would look at Nutcase helmets or the S1 Mini Lifer. None of these have any face protection, which seems to be reserved for fast downhill racing; I don't know what to recommend there.

This link has a good discussion of skate helmets for adults.
Mathematicus
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by Mathematicus »

ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:34 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:23 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:43 pm What about a full-face bicycle helmet? They can be pricey but cheaper than going to the dentist
Anything good with me since I know nothing. Can you suggest a brand, model, etc?
I don't have direct experience with them, but I googled it and this came up - https://thebikedads.com/full-face-helmets/
I use a convertible full face helmet often while cycling and have used the two convertible helmets from Bell listed on the bottom of the Bike Dad page. The Super 3R MIPS is lighter but with a less robust chin bar. The Super DH MIPS is heavier and fully downhill mountain biking certified. Both helmets are well ventilated, have a “spherical MIPS” system, and have chin bars that can be placed on and off as needed. I typically use Super 3R but would recommend both.

I’ve also commuted while wearing both. Your hearing is certainly a bit different in a full face helmet but neither were particularly muffled or distorted. Peripheral vision is also pretty good in both.

Another good resource for helmet info is the Virginia Tech helmet ratings website https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle ... tings.html. Their testing database is not comprehensive yet, but their methodology is considered the gold standard for evaluating traumatic brain injury mitigation.
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

AnEngineer wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:00 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:48 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm How often does the kid fall? Regular bike helmets are only made for one knock on the head, then they’re supposed to be replaced.

Maybe you should look into skateboard helmets.
Fallen more than once and for sure needs a new helmet that given more full face protection. Thanks for skateboard suggestion although not clear to me what would call a helmet skateboard vs motocross vs bike vs scooter to be honest. Although the ones that come up searching for skateboard are pretty cool looking.
Perhaps you didn't pick up that bike helmets are not designed to work after the first use.

There are different certifications for different uses, is research that more closely to help find what you're looking for.
Sorry was writing shorthand. Because multiple falls family is aware that with damage to integrity, that particular helmet involved in a fall is no longer providing good protection. Appreciate pointing that out however.

I would think that even with different certifications, if one was to get a helmet for an activity at or above the speed of that activity that you would get good protection. Meaning, self propelled scooter is likely slowest activity and that while scooter helmet is fine, bike, motocross, or ski helmets would provide even greater protection? Is this wrong way thinking?
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:34 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:23 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:43 pm What about a full-face bicycle helmet? They can be pricey but cheaper than going to the dentist
Anything good with me since I know nothing. Can you suggest a brand, model, etc?
I don't have direct experience with them, but I googled it and this came up - https://thebikedads.com/full-face-helmets/
Thanks for link thankyoujack. Will show "kid" and she what they think. Don't know if when they say "kid's" helmet that they have version for college kid. Will also research and see if carry someplace so fit can be checked.
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

Mathematicus wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:12 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:34 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:23 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:43 pm What about a full-face bicycle helmet? They can be pricey but cheaper than going to the dentist
Anything good with me since I know nothing. Can you suggest a brand, model, etc?
I don't have direct experience with them, but I googled it and this came up - https://thebikedads.com/full-face-helmets/
I use a convertible full face helmet often while cycling and have used the two convertible helmets from Bell listed on the bottom of the Bike Dad page. The Super 3R MIPS is lighter but with a less robust chin bar. The Super DH MIPS is heavier and fully downhill mountain biking certified. Both helmets are well ventilated, have a “spherical MIPS” system, and have chin bars that can be placed on and off as needed. I typically use Super 3R but would recommend both.

I’ve also commuted while wearing both. Your hearing is certainly a bit different in a full face helmet but neither were particularly muffled or distorted. Peripheral vision is also pretty good in both.

Another good resource for helmet info is the Virginia Tech helmet ratings website https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle ... tings.html. Their testing database is not comprehensive yet, but their methodology is considered the gold standard for evaluating traumatic brain injury mitigation.
Thanks Mathematicus, this is what I was looking for---that personal experience combined with some brands and models! Awesome.

I had been avoiding the chin straps wondering if they really provided enough protection but sounds like you are giving a thumbs up so will include in investigations.
AnEngineer
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by AnEngineer »

is50xenough wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:13 am
AnEngineer wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:00 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:48 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm How often does the kid fall? Regular bike helmets are only made for one knock on the head, then they’re supposed to be replaced.

Maybe you should look into skateboard helmets.
Fallen more than once and for sure needs a new helmet that given more full face protection. Thanks for skateboard suggestion although not clear to me what would call a helmet skateboard vs motocross vs bike vs scooter to be honest. Although the ones that come up searching for skateboard are pretty cool looking.
Perhaps you didn't pick up that bike helmets are not designed to work after the first use.

There are different certifications for different uses, is research that more closely to help find what you're looking for.
Sorry was writing shorthand. Because multiple falls family is aware that with damage to integrity, that particular helmet involved in a fall is no longer providing good protection. Appreciate pointing that out however.

I would think that even with different certifications, if one was to get a helmet for an activity at or above the speed of that activity that you would get good protection. Meaning, self propelled scooter is likely slowest activity and that while scooter helmet is fine, bike, motocross, or ski helmets would provide even greater protection? Is this wrong way thinking?
My understanding is that some other types of helmets (e.g. skateboard) are designed for multiple impacts, which is the point for multiple certifications. Bike helmets are meant as a just-in-case for rare events.
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

AnEngineer wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:29 am
is50xenough wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:13 am
AnEngineer wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:00 pm
is50xenough wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:48 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm How often does the kid fall? Regular bike helmets are only made for one knock on the head, then they’re supposed to be replaced.

Maybe you should look into skateboard helmets.
Fallen more than once and for sure needs a new helmet that given more full face protection. Thanks for skateboard suggestion although not clear to me what would call a helmet skateboard vs motocross vs bike vs scooter to be honest. Although the ones that come up searching for skateboard are pretty cool looking.
Perhaps you didn't pick up that bike helmets are not designed to work after the first use.

There are different certifications for different uses, is research that more closely to help find what you're looking for.
Sorry was writing shorthand. Because multiple falls family is aware that with damage to integrity, that particular helmet involved in a fall is no longer providing good protection. Appreciate pointing that out however.

I would think that even with different certifications, if one was to get a helmet for an activity at or above the speed of that activity that you would get good protection. Meaning, self propelled scooter is likely slowest activity and that while scooter helmet is fine, bike, motocross, or ski helmets would provide even greater protection? Is this wrong way thinking?
My understanding is that some other types of helmets (e.g. skateboard) are designed for multiple impacts, which is the point for multiple certifications. Bike helmets are meant as a just-in-case for rare events.
Ah, love this kind of info. Thanks for education!
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quantAndHold
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by quantAndHold »

Okay, I’m confused about what this is. Let’s take a step back. It this an electric scooter? How old is the kid?

Assuming you mean an electric scooter, the rental ones I’ve ridden have short wheelbases and small wheels, and I had to sit way back on it on rough pavement to keep from doing a face plant myself. Some of the cheaper ones people can buy have even shorter wheelbases and smaller wheels, which would make the problem worse. If your kid has done multiple face plants from the thing, you might consider whether the scooter is intrinsically unsafe, or if the kid is not mature enough to ride it safely. Going over the handlebars face first into the street on a regular basis isn’t something that should be happening.
IMO
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by IMO »

Just search for full faced helmets biking. The price can vary from $75 to typically $250ish and up from there.

Kids are kids. Electric scooters are fun. Things like dental care for injuries, ER visits expensive. Injuries are serious.

Any type of helmet is supposed to be discarded after a significant impact. There are things like MIPS to consider that may(?) provide extra protection. When it comes to things like biking and/or riding a scooter, it is more difficult to determine what level of protection is best, especially since things like mountain biking and even electric scooters can have progressed where the speeds, jumps/terrain and levels of impact can actually be much higher than in the past.

There are things like DOT standards and there are SNELL rated standards for motorized helmets. SNELL being the most expensive. There is actually some debate on if some helmets are "too hard" because the deformation of the helmet is a significant aspect of the protection. Personally, after doing some research on the topic, I personally cannot conclude that cost on the helmets is the determining factor on safety provided and that SNELL may not really be the best in all circumstances. It's complicated and if anyone simply says SNELL or bust hasn't done research or been open to the science. https://agvsport.com/blog/which-helmet- ... r-fim.html

There was a very good study/paper on some comparisons that was very good, but I cannot find that link easily. If I recall correctly, it was sort of a criticism that SNELL level in many situations was too hard of a helmet (and that brought controversy).

It gets more complicated because full faced helmets are likely better with a neck brace (such as a Leatt brace) since the lower guard is more prone to tweek the neck in a fall, but even that topic gets complicated and controversial. https://leatt.com/us/explore-mtb/neck-braces/

Even weight of the helmet can be an issue, especially with younger kids/weaker neck muscles. All things being equal, I've opted for carbon fiber when possible for high risk sports/activities when my kid was young.

I think the one non-controversial thing is a helmet is better than no helmet.

One can also have the kid wear a mouthguard which provide some additional dental protection like is required in many sports nowadays. But compliance is a real issue.
AS7911
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by AS7911 »

An adequate helmet that the kids will wear is better than the best helmet, that he won't wear...
BatBuckeye
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by BatBuckeye »

The best helmet will be the one your child will wear. Take your child to the bike shop and let child pick one out.
What you want is like others have said, a downhill helmet which has full face protection. But, a downhill race is fast with lots of wind. I'm sure these helmets are hot. Your child may not really want a hot helmet.
You might consider a scooter that has a little larger wheels that are not hard. It's been said already, it only takes a little pebble to cause a face plant with those little wheels.
Bike gloves offer some protection too when falling.
There is risk when riding but I sure wish I had an electric scooter when I was young.
getthatmarshmallow
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

Is this an electric scooter or something like a Razr? A full face bike helmet would protect the face, but they are hot and if the kid won't wear it, it won't do any good. Moreover, like all bike helmets, they're meant to be replaced after every crash.

A skateboard helmet is made to a different standard and is good for multiple, lower-speed impacts, but they're not usually full face IME.

I don't want to suggest you wrap the kid in bubble wrap, but if they're crashing a lot on an electric scooter they might not be ready for it yet. Little wheels + power + rough pavement is not a great combination.
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is50xenough
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Re: Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle helmets

Post by is50xenough »

All help appreciated and I like to bring these queries to a close if that is possible.

First to clarify, "kid" is in college (but still my kid so that is why I used that term) and is very, very, very responsible. Blames times pavement is wet, leaves, etc.

Yes, they will wear helmet if has one. Yes we know to discard after a crash.

After all your help and my own research found a cycle equipment place near campus (I was recently visiting). When we went in, turned out to be motorcycle and mountain bike racing but I felt much more knowledgeable with info armed from you all.

We settled on a Sedici Strada II. Full head protection including chin. As clerk explained, many of the mountain bike helmets are very angular which looks cool, but their fear was that in much slower speed crash on a scooter they could torque my kids head and risk neck injury. Kid who tried a few models on is happy and I'm happy.

Oh, this is just a regular self propelled Razr type deal. No motorization.

A bit pricey but kid is worth it!

Thanks again to all and a great discussion. Almost makes me want to get a motorcycle------but not really. Ha Ha
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