Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

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Sheepdog
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Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Sheepdog »

My wife is 82 and I am 88 and no other family members live nearby.

If my wife falls, it is impossible for her to get up to reach a phone (she does not use and will not carry a cell phone :annoyed ). She can't crawl. She is where she is, so she must have a way to notify for help. She has been stubborn and has not accepted getting a pendant or bracelet alarm system like Lifeline, Life Alert, etc. She has fallen 3 times now and I have been around to call 911.Today it was in a bedroom. Thankfully I was home, as I usually am. Because I can't lift her, I called 911, to ask for help. I went to the front door to await the assistance. Two nice men came, lifted her, checked her vitals, and then departed. They are great.

What will she do when I am not here? At 88, and with health issues, I told her "Okay, when I can't be here, what will you do.....etc..etc..etc.".
"I don't like something hanging around neck." she said. Okay, I argued some. Then, I said. "You must. I am going to find something, not heavy. You MUST." Okay. So be it. I am going to have her try up to 3 different ones.

THEN, I, for the first time, I thought "How do the firemen get into the house to rescue her? The doors are all locked." Yes, he garage door could be opened by an electronic opener, like in the car, but she wouldn't carry that around with her. She could, but she wouldn't.

Ideas would be welcome.
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bob60014
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by bob60014 »

If I recall, Amazon Echos and the like can accept a voice prompt to call a designated emergency contact, though not 911. Obviously if one is unable to speak it's useless.
Last edited by bob60014 on Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
increment
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by increment »

Do properties in your area use Knox boxes, those little safes that hold keys? I understand they are for use by fire departments; perhaps other emergency services can access them too?
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Sheepdog
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Sheepdog »

increment wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:14 pm Do properties in your area use Knox boxes, those little safes that hold keys? I understand they are for use by fire departments; perhaps other emergency services can access them too?
Great idea. We don't have Knox boxes, I don't believe, but perhaps something else is available....like real estate lock boxes.Thanks.
Woof
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ResearchMed
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by ResearchMed »

Sheepdog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:27 pm
increment wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:14 pm Do properties in your area use Knox boxes, those little safes that hold keys? I understand they are for use by fire departments; perhaps other emergency services can access them too?
Great idea. We don't have Knox boxes, I don't believe, but perhaps something else is available....like real estate lock boxes.Thanks.
Woof
One can also change to a keypad lock, or at least on one door, and notify emergency services. Make sure they are able/willing to deal with this. I'd work with whatever arrangement the local emergency services recommend, obviously.

There are also devices that with panic button capability, some that can also detect "falls", although they aren't foolproof. Better than nothing, though.
And I think there are some that can be worn like a wristwatch.

It would be ideal if there were two way communication possible, but I'm not sure what is currently available like that.

Could you post here if you find some good device for your DW?
I'm probably going to be needing something like that at some point.

RM
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RetiredAL
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by RetiredAL »

Sheepdog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:57 pm My wife is 82 and I am 88 and no other family members live nearby.

If my wife falls, it is impossible for her to get up to reach a phone (she does not use and will not carry a cell phone :annoyed ). She can't crawl. She is where she is, so she must have a way to notify for help. She has been stubborn and has not accepted getting a pendant or bracelet alarm system like Lifeline, Life Alert, etc. She has fallen 3 times now and I have been around to call 911.Today it was in a bedroom. Thankfully I was home, as I usually am. Because I can't lift her, I called 911, to ask for help. I went to the front door to await the assistance. Two nice men came, lifted her, checked her vitals, and then departed. They are great.

What will she do when I am not here? At 88, and with health issues, I told her "Okay, when I can't be here, what will you do.....etc..etc..etc.".
"I don't like something hanging around neck." she said. Okay, I argued some. Then, I said. "You must. I am going to find something, not heavy. You MUST." Okay. So be it. I am going to have her try up to 3 different ones.

THEN, I, for the first time, I thought "How do the firemen get into the house to rescue her? The doors are all locked." Yes, he garage door could be opened by an electronic opener, like in the car, but she wouldn't carry that around with her. She could, but she wouldn't.

Ideas would be welcome.
There is no the perfect answer.

My Dad had a cell based Alert Pennant but alas when he needed it one night, it was in the charger by his bed and he was in the bathroom too weak due to sepsis to get off the comode. Church friends became concerned when he did not show up of church several hours later and broke into his home to find him. Although several knew me, none had my phone number on their cell phones to call me to find the access instructions.

As Bob60014 suggested, several Echo's placed around the house could be used for call you or a friend on voice request.

A local system, such as your home alarm system, using a key-fob "arm-disarm/panic" will last months to years on a single battery. A car alarm might do the trick if it's sounding would attract attention. If you go the FOB route, have several in key places, like in the bathrooms.

Emergency services will typically NOT break-in unless they can see the person is in distress. For entrance access, get a key lock box. Many 911 systems can include the box combination and location along with contact info related to that address.

I personally was (and still today) against putting up emergency contact signs at my Dad's house. IMO it's just an advertisement to burglers that a lessor capable person lives here.

My Dad did find that a wireless doorbell system worked well inside the home for my Mom as she declined, with one button next to her chair and the other at her nightstand.
tomd37
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by tomd37 »

Sheepdog - We have the same average age as you and your wife and I have often thought about the situation you mention in your post. We have no family in the area but do share a key to our home with a neighbor along with the code to turn off our alarm system if it activates for any reason. But if they are not at home there is a problem. I will follow your post and look into the matter locally with our fire department. Thanks for posting your comment.
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Kenkat
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Kenkat »

We went through some of these issues with my wife’s parents and now are starting to experience it with my parents. It is a difficult thing so my thoughts are with you.

When my wife’s mom / my mother in law started to have falls and was unable to get up, they would call us or one of my wife’s other siblings and we would go over and assist. Luckily there are a few of us who live close. If no one was available, they called 911. Once dad started having similar issues, they ultimately were forced to move to an assisted living facility which they resisted at first but eventually agreed to. It was overall a positive experience for them. They were able to enjoy some of the social aspects and amenities there.

My mom has now had a similar issue where she has fallen a couple of times recently. My dad is still pretty agile luckily. They are both 86. He is not able to get my mom up by himself but he bought something called a “sit to stand lift” at a medical supply store that can be used and has worked for them. It does require someone at least somewhat able bodied to operate however.

For the access question, if you have access to the house through a garage, you can buy a keypad that will open the garage door from the outside using a code; that could be an option.

Long term, someone living alone who is a fall risk probably should strongly consider an assisted living facility.
EverydayWallSt
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by EverydayWallSt »

Couple ideas:

1) an Apple Watch - they do fall detection, and also you can press and hold the side button to call 911 anytime if needed. Here’s how fall detection works: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208944

2) someone mentioned Alexa. Yes, but you should subscribe to Noonlight in addition (https://www.noonlight.com/old-home) - it connects to your Alexa or Google home (“Alexa - call for help”) and calls for help. Noonlight has their own dispatchers of real people who call the police or paramedics for you and stay on the line with you / already know your address from when you signed up, so they can tell them how to get there etc.
Freefun
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Freefun »

This may be more tech than you want, but as I live alone (60's) should I need emergency assistance I think I can use Apple's Siri to call 911, or use the apple watch or phone for same (holding proper buttons will result in emergency call). Also if set up in Apple, emergency contacts will also be notified.

As for my door, neighbors have keys. I also installed a smart lock with keypad.

When I upgrade my apple watch I will use apple fall detection (my current watch is too old).
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208944

edit to add:

while amazon alexa cannot call 911 it can, if set up, be asked to call any of your contacts, who in turn can contact 911.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
GmanJeff
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by GmanJeff »

When my father-in-law began to fall more often, both he and his wife came to realize that living independently was no longer practical and safe for him. They moved to a continuing care retirement community (CCRC), where on-site staff were able to assist them when either of them fell.

In independent living in that community, Security staff check every living unit every morning to see if the door has been opened. If it has not, they follow up with a telephone call and, if no response is received, they enter the unit to check on the residents' welfare. Fall pendants are available for those who wish to have them.

In assisted living, staff proactively check on each resident every several hours, in case the resident was unable to activate their fall pendant.

In memory care, residents are routinely checked on even more frequently, and the units contain motion detectors so staff can remotely discern both excessive movement which might indicate agitation, and the absence of movement during waking hours.

In short, perhaps consider a CCRC if you have a nice one near you. Beyond potentially offering on-site response to falls, such communities typically offer social and other benefits such as on-site dining and medical services, and can be particularly helpful environments when driving becomes unsafe.

Separately, repeated falls may indicate a need for a medical assessment and perhaps consideration of low-tech assistive devices such as a cane or walker. Additionally, fall hazards in the home may need to be addressed, e.g., area rugs, electrical extension cords, an absence of grab bars in bathrooms, and the presence of stairs in a multi-level residence.
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JAZZISCOOL
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by JAZZISCOOL »

Hi Sheepdog,

You also might try contacting your city/county to see if they have any additional helpful resources in your area or advice.

Here is a national elder care website where you enter your zip code and it should list local resources.

https://eldercare.acl.gov/Public/Search_Results.aspx

There may be resources unique to your area beyond the tech devices, etc. already mentioned.

I think about this topic with respect to a friend and his wife (77 & 70; no children and also no relatives in the area). My friend has had 2 joint replacements and I've noticed he is having balance issues lately so am keeping track of resources in case they might be useful in the future. He and his wife live in a 2 story house with stairs which he said are too narrow to add one of those stair lifts when (if) the time comes. He said they want to age at home.

In addition, an older neighbor (late 70's - ish) died unexpectedly a few months ago after a fall and wasn't found for a few days (lived alone - widower). I assume he didn't have any device to call for help but don't know the details. It made me want to be more aware of this general topic.

Best of luck.
Last edited by JAZZISCOOL on Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sheepdog
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Sheepdog »

Kenkat wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:18 pm We went through some of these issues with my wife’s parents and now are starting to experience it with my parents. It is a difficult thing so my thoughts are with you.

When my wife’s mom / my mother in law started to have falls and was unable to get up, they would call us or one of my wife’s other siblings and we would go over and assist. Luckily there are a few of us who live close. If no one was available, they called 911. Once dad started having similar issues, they ultimately were forced to move to an assisted living facility which they resisted at first but eventually agreed to. It was overall a positive experience for them. They were able to enjoy some of the social aspects and amenities there.

My mom has now had a similar issue where she has fallen a couple of times recently. My dad is still pretty agile luckily. They are both 86. He is not able to get my mom up by himself but he bought something called a “sit to stand lift” at a medical supply store that can be used and has worked for them. It does require someone at least somewhat able bodied to operate however.

For the access question, if you have access to the house through a garage, you can buy a keypad that will open the garage door from the outside using a code; that could be an option.

Long term, someone living alone who is a fall risk probably should strongly consider an assisted living facility.
Thanks I have wanted to go to an assisted living faciity. I even had a 2 bedroom house looked at a very nice senior living facility and wanted to live, actually it was quite elegant. But, again no "I want my sheepdog and I can't have her there." Plus, she says It is too small for us to live so close. Oh well.....

And, dad gum it, why didn't I think of the use of the keypad on the garage door? We have one. Duh...Thanks
Woof
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sbaywriter
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by sbaywriter »

Single, 74, living alone. My sister and I set up a system where we text each other each morning, and if no response, follow up with email and phone and then we call the "local contacts". And of course if that contact fails (phone off, out of town), she could call the local fire department to go and check on me. So far, haven't had to test this out.

There are companies that provide the same service - if you don't check in by specified time they follow up.

As far as house access, I found out my city will register the code for either an electronic lock or a lockbox with the fire department. I got the electronic lock and registered it with the fire department. The electronic lock also lets me assign separate codes to each of my contacts as well as the fire department so any of them can get in. I love my electronic lock, but one must ensure the battery is replaced regularly. I know I will need to go into assisted living at some point if I can't remember things like replacing the battery or checking in with someone.
RetiredAL
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by RetiredAL »

Sheepdog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:43 pm
Thanks I have wanted to go to an assisted living facility. I even had a 2 bedroom house looked at and wanted to live, actually it was quite elegant. But, again no "I want my sheepdog and I can;t have her there. Plus, she says It is too small for us to live so close.

Dad gum it, why didn't I think of the use of the keypad on the garage door. We have one. Duh...Thanks
Woof
At the ALF my Dad is in, they allow both cats and dogs. One dog is on their 2nd person and is loved by many.

They will even to doggy walking several times a day, but I assume there is a fee for that. The doggy run for the complex, which includes independent living, is adjacent to the ALF building.
HHP
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by HHP »

My father had a Medical Guardian pendant. It was big and bulky and I understand why someone wouldn't want to wear one. This service included a lock box on the front door. When he fell and needed assistance, assistance came quickly. Sometimes he fell and wasn't wearing the pendant, but he was always able to eventually crawl to a phone.

I began to call him daily if I wasn't planning to visit. We gave a key to a trusted neighbor. We eventually hired 24/7 in-home care.
HomeStretch
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by HomeStretch »

I am going through something similar with both of my parents (same ages) who are subject to falls (one with dementia/hearing issues that is not able to dial 911) but are unwilling to go to Assisted Living. Some thoughts:

1. The Apple Watch, pendants, etc. only work if the person will wear it 24/7. Every time there was a fall, for one reason or another, my parent had taken it off.

2. We put in multiple Echo dots with a bridge whereby someone can tell Alexa it call 911. It has worked most of the time. Doesn’t work when someone is unable or too weak to call out.

3. Installed a key lockbox outside and gave the code to 911. 911 Lift Assist has been incredible.

4. Installed an Arlo camera system. If my parents don’t pickup the phone when we call them for a nightly check, my parent has asked that we check the web-based Arlo camera feed to be sure they’re not lying on the floor. Works great in public rooms but of course there are no cameras in bedrooms/bathrooms which is where half of the falls have happened.

5. Daily part time aides check on them in-person. Parents will not allow 24/7 help.

A couple recent falls put the parent with dementia in the hospital then rehab and now permanent placement in a skilled nursing facility with diminished mobility now.

Sadly there is no solution that has worked 100%. My siblings and I literally lose sleep over the safety of the parent who now lives alone. All I can say is to try your best but if your spouse refuses to cooperate, you may need to develop a “come what may” view of the situation. Easier said than done. Perhaps your children, if any, can discuss their concerns with your spouse in order to persuade her to make the move to assisted living while healthy.

Best of luck.
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by JupiterJones »

Apart from the great tips so far about things that will help once the fall occurs, there might also be things to be to reduce the chances of a fall in the first place. This involves both your wife (working on balance & attention when moving, talking to the doctor about dizziness) and her environment (eliminating trip hazards, providing adequate lighting, etc.)

Here's a pretty good article about that sort of thing: https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions- ... ntion.html
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Dechan
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Dechan »

bob60014 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:06 pm If I recall, Amazon Echos and the like can accept a voice prompt to call a designated emergency contact, though not 911. Obviously if one is unable to speak it's useless.
I have a senior citizen relative who I was worried would fall and not be able to get help. I got them a few inexpensive Amazon Echo Dots placed throughout the house and put a list of people and phone numbers into the Echo app's contact list. The Echo can call people in the contact list by name through voice control. I was surprised at how far away the Echo could be and still hear me even when I talk normally. You do not even have to be in the same room and the Echo can still hear your request.
HereToLearn
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by HereToLearn »

I have not researched this in three years so the technology may have changed since 2018.

I purchased a pendant for my mother to wear around her neck. The pendant had fall detection so that when she fell, the ADT attendant called out to her via the squawk box to ask if she was OK. If my mother did not respond, ADT summoned my mother's local fire dept.

The house key was secure in a lock box hanging from the front door, and we had provided ADT with the lock box code so that ADT could relay the combination to the firemen who responded to the call.

We had a couple of false alarms, and requested a replacement pendant which mostly solved the problem. The police or fire came out one or two times that they were not needed, but one time that was a true emergency. My mother had fallen and was not within range of the squawk box, so ADT sent the fire dept to the house. They found my mother and called an ambulance.

Many of the systems require the user to press a button on the pendant when help is needed. I think the one that will summon help when the user cannot respond is safer, although requires a higher monthly service fee.
TN_Boy
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by TN_Boy »

Dechan wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:19 pm
bob60014 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:06 pm If I recall, Amazon Echos and the like can accept a voice prompt to call a designated emergency contact, though not 911. Obviously if one is unable to speak it's useless.
I have a senior citizen relative who I was worried would fall and not be able to get help. I got them a few inexpensive Amazon Echo Dots placed throughout the house and put a list of people and phone numbers into the Echo app's contact list. The Echo can call people in the contact list by name through voice control. I was surprised at how far away the Echo could be and still hear me even when I talk normally. You do not even have to be in the same room and the Echo can still hear your request.
I haven't looked into this in detail, but I think you can also get door locks which can be controlled by Alexa.

Objects controlled by Alexa need a working internet when commands are given.
TN_Boy
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by TN_Boy »

Sheepdog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:57 pm My wife is 82 and I am 88 and no other family members live nearby.

If my wife falls, it is impossible for her to get up to reach a phone (she does not use and will not carry a cell phone :annoyed ). She can't crawl. She is where she is, so she must have a way to notify for help. She has been stubborn and has not accepted getting a pendant or bracelet alarm system like Lifeline, Life Alert, etc. She has fallen 3 times now and I have been around to call 911.Today it was in a bedroom. Thankfully I was home, as I usually am. Because I can't lift her, I called 911, to ask for help. I went to the front door to await the assistance. Two nice men came, lifted her, checked her vitals, and then departed. They are great.

What will she do when I am not here? At 88, and with health issues, I told her "Okay, when I can't be here, what will you do.....etc..etc..etc.".
"I don't like something hanging around neck." she said. Okay, I argued some. Then, I said. "You must. I am going to find something, not heavy. You MUST." Okay. So be it. I am going to have her try up to 3 different ones.

THEN, I, for the first time, I thought "How do the firemen get into the house to rescue her? The doors are all locked." Yes, he garage door could be opened by an electronic opener, like in the car, but she wouldn't carry that around with her. She could, but she wouldn't.

Ideas would be welcome.
So, I'll add to the posters pointing out something you probably already know, that your living situation is quite precarious. Do you have children? What do they suggest?

I have ... substantial experience helping older relatives, and the only thing more stressful on children than helping elder parents is helping elder parents who are unrealistic about their living situation. It makes a difficult situation .... truly awful for the caretakers. Helping older parents remotely is also a nightmare; almost impossible to do this and hold a full time job if substantial help is needed. It's really wonderful when the parents insist all is well until the situation falls apart in a 100% predictable way. Put another way, whoever the caretaker will be for an elderly person, the longer you wait to get appropriate help in-place, the larger the burden on that caretaker.

The problem is not just if Sheepdog goes to the sheepdog kennel in the sky. What happens if Sheepdog has to be in the hospital for a couple of weeks or months? Who takes care of Mrs Sheepdog?

Without giving medical advice, I'd observe that figuring out why someone is falling is a good idea. Also that once somebody starts falling, they tend to keep falling until they break a hip or something, and well, that's a very problematic injury in an elderly person.

Oh, and some of the Lifeline (and competitor) devices can be worn on the wrist, instead of around the neck. But that is putting a tiny bandaid on a much larger issue.
CurlyDave
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by CurlyDave »

Sheepdog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:57 pm
...THEN, I, for the first time, I thought "How do the firemen get into the house to rescue her? The doors are all locked." Yes, he garage door could be opened by an electronic opener, like in the car, but she wouldn't carry that around with her. She could, but she wouldn't.

Ideas would be welcome.
If the fire department is convinced someone in the house needs help, they will open the door, locked or not. They usually have a small battering ram for the eventuality of a locked door. How do I know this? I own rentals and they broke the door down in one of them 8 or 9 years ago. I am in a small rural town. In a big city they have better tools.

The cost of replacing the door is a minor inconvenience in the bigger picture of why they broke it down.

The real issue is communications with emergency services.

Amazon dot or Apple watch sound good to me. I am 76 and have an Apple watch. It has asked me if I have fallen many times. Fortunately the answer is always no, but it is nice to know that it can call emergency services for me if necessary. It does need to be charged for about an hour every day.
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Sheepdog
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Sheepdog »

Dechan wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:19 pm
I have a senior citizen relative who I was worried would fall and not be able to get help. I got them a few inexpensive Amazon Echo Dots placed throughout the house and put a list of people and phone numbers into the Echo app's contact list. The Echo can call people in the contact list by name through voice control. I was surprised at how far away the Echo could be and still hear me even when I talk normally. You do not even have to be in the same room and the Echo can still hear your request.
Maybe we could do that. I have one, so I know what they can do. I will consider. Thanks.

And to the others here. Great points and ideas. THANK YOU ALL.

Woof Woof
Last edited by Sheepdog on Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered you will never grow. (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
InMyDreams
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by InMyDreams »

JupiterJones wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:18 pm Apart from the great tips so far about things that will help once the fall occurs, there might also be things to be to reduce the chances of a fall in the first place. This involves both your wife (working on balance & attention when moving, talking to the doctor about dizziness) and her environment (eliminating trip hazards, providing adequate lighting, etc.)

Here's a pretty good article about that sort of thing: https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions- ... ntion.html
+1.

Also, we got my father two of these:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stander-Adj ... WM28241824

one in the bathroom, one by the couch. Ugly they are, but I'm sure it saved us from many-a-fall.
niagara_guy
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by niagara_guy »

I am in a similar boat.

Our fire department will keep the code for a lockbox in their records so I have a lockbox with a house key and they have the code. I guess if you have a keypad on the garage door then maybe you can give that code to fire department? Please work with your fire department. They may have lots of advice on this issue and may work with your wife. (it's not their first time dealing with this issue.)

I am looking at alternatives (i.e. lifealert), here is a link to a Consumer Reports article:

https://www.consumerreports.org/medical ... 136054281/

it looks like some of the options use a wristwatch type of device, maybe she will use that. Maybe Alexa (Amazon device that listens to speech) might be an option if she won't wear a device. Here is a link:

https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=18021383011

on our fridge is a info-4-life that contains wife's medical information for fire department. Here is link:

http://www.info-4-life.org/

Others, please update this with your ideas. I will follow this post. Thank you to those who have already responded.
Mr. Rumples
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Mr. Rumples »

Verizon seems to still have a watch phone for kids. Verizon GizmoWatch 2

https://www.verizon.com/connected-smart ... mowatch-2/

That coupled with the ideas above, might be as good as you can do: a watch, a voice activated system, a camera and a lock box so EMS can enter. Your county's EMS service should be able to help. Sometimes they are located with the police, sometimes fire and other times they are stand alone.

https://lockbox.shopkidde.com/about-the ... ox-program
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Chris56789
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Chris56789 »

I agree with others regarding echo devices as one tool in the toolbox. (Practice increasing the volume from a distance: Alexa, up; Alexa, up;)

An occupational therapist suggested (for pendant refusers) having old cell phones strewn about, since these can still be used to call 911. These would have to be periodically recharged, and would have to be reachable without crawling. (Are you certain crawling is out of the question? There are techniques--such as the "butt crawl"--that might be worth looking into.)

Some of the assistive devices mentioned already in this thread sound really helpful (thank you!)

I'm wondering, too, about person-specific up-from-fall "hacks." YouTube is full of videos demonstrating various techniques that might work for your wife.

A physical therapist or occupational therapist (I've observed better results from OTs) might be willing to supervise safe practice of various getting-up techniques.

This isn't what you asked for, I realize. But as someone thinking ahead to being in this situation myself someday, I'm not sure I would necessarily want to bring emergency personnel to my home. It seems that once the EMTs arrive, a lot of decisions get taken out of our hands.

Anyway, I love that this discussion is happening in this forum, where independence is a central theme.
HereToLearn
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by HereToLearn »

Chris56789 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:44 am I agree with others regarding echo devices as one tool in the toolbox. (Practice increasing the volume from a distance: Alexa, up; Alexa, up;)

An occupational therapist suggested (for pendant refusers) having old cell phones strewn about, since these can still be used to call 911. These would have to be periodically recharged, and would have to be reachable without crawling. (Are you certain crawling is out of the question? There are techniques--such as the "butt crawl"--that might be worth looking into.)

Some of the assistive devices mentioned already in this thread sound really helpful (thank you!)

I'm wondering, too, about person-specific up-from-fall "hacks." YouTube is full of videos demonstrating various techniques that might work for your wife.

A physical therapist or occupational therapist (I've observed better results from OTs) might be willing to supervise safe practice of various getting-up techniques.

This isn't what you asked for, I realize. But as someone thinking ahead to being in this situation myself someday, I'm not sure I would necessarily want to bring emergency personnel to my home. It seems that once the EMTs arrive, a lot of decisions get taken out of our hands.

Anyway, I love that this discussion is happening in this forum, where independence is a central theme.
I am wondering what concerns you about having an EMT arrive? Do you mean that the person could be forced against his will to go to the hospital to be checked out?

My father lived at home with an aide during the last couple of months of his life. Once or twice my mother had to call the volunteer fire dept to help lift him from the toilet when the aide could not handle alone. And as I mentioned upthread, the EMT was invaluable when my mother fell and hit her head on the concrete garage floor. Of course, if she had not been wearing the ADT fall alert necklace, I am not sure what would have happened.

Having an OT and a PT consult in the house was also very helpful. Each was able to suggest adaptations to assist in mobility and fall prevention.
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Chris56789
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Chris56789 »

HereToLearn wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:58 am I am wondering what concerns you about having an EMT arrive? Do you mean that the person could be forced against his will to go to the hospital to be checked out?
I’m sorry to have introduced a vague, dark comment into an otherwise mostly lighthearted discussion.

With regard to simple lift support, I’m sure you are right about EMTs.

My concern is about what happens if you agree to be taken to the hospital to be checked out. I worry that, once in the hospital, things can go downhill pretty quickly. Many older people can, in their own homes, get by okay even with significant impairment. In the hospital, though, you’re dealing with hard floors and people rushing around, and over-extended nurses.

A family member fell and injured herself, and the EMTs recommended a trip to the hospital. She was never “treated” in any way (the decision was made to let the injury resolve on its own rather than with surgical intervention). Nevertheless, she didn’t make it back home for a month. A person loses a lot of strength after just a few days lying in a hospital bed. The doctors’ instructions were for her to get out of bed at least once a day, but the nurses insisted this wasn’t safe. When it was time for her to be discharged, she could no longer walk. So it was off to skilled nursing. I basically had to move into skilled nursing with her to make sure she had someone around to help get her from bed to a wheelchair to the bathroom, and to practice standing and that sort of thing. (Understaffing in skilled nursing is often even worse than understaffing in hospitals.)

I think (but will never know, of course) that if she had just been able to get herself off the floor, this whole unfortunate episode could have been avoided.

But that’s just one story, alongside what I’m sure are many of EMTs cheerfully providing lift assistance when needed, and then everyone carrying on with their lives.

The gadget and device recommendations others have shared are great. And I second your recommendation re: in-home OT and PT consultations.
HereToLearn
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by HereToLearn »

Chris56789 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:36 am
HereToLearn wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:58 am I am wondering what concerns you about having an EMT arrive? Do you mean that the person could be forced against his will to go to the hospital to be checked out?
I’m sorry to have introduced a vague, dark comment into an otherwise mostly lighthearted discussion.

With regard to simple lift support, I’m sure you are right about EMTs.

My concern is about what happens if you agree to be taken to the hospital to be checked out. I worry that, once in the hospital, things can go downhill pretty quickly. Many older people can, in their own homes, get by okay even with significant impairment. In the hospital, though, you’re dealing with hard floors and people rushing around, and over-extended nurses.

A family member fell and injured herself, and the EMTs recommended a trip to the hospital. She was never “treated” in any way (the decision was made to let the injury resolve on its own rather than with surgical intervention). Nevertheless, she didn’t make it back home for a month. A person loses a lot of strength after just a few days lying in a hospital bed. The doctors’ instructions were for her to get out of bed at least once a day, but the nurses insisted this wasn’t safe. When it was time for her to be discharged, she could no longer walk. So it was off to skilled nursing. I basically had to move into skilled nursing with her to make sure she had someone around to help get her from bed to a wheelchair to the bathroom, and to practice standing and that sort of thing. (Understaffing in skilled nursing is often even worse than understaffing in hospitals.)

I think (but will never know, of course) that if she had just been able to get herself off the floor, this whole unfortunate episode could have been avoided.

But that’s just one story, alongside what I’m sure are many of EMTs cheerfully providing lift assistance when needed, and then everyone carrying on with their lives.

The gadget and device recommendations others have shared are great. And I second your recommendation re: in-home OT and PT consultations.
Oh, no need to apologize, but thank you for the detailed explanation.

I share your concerns about languishing at rehab. My father was in one of those facilities for several weeks and I really don't know that anything was accomplished.
RetiredArtist
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by RetiredArtist »

Sheepdog, I have benefited from the wisdom in your posts. I also like your sheepdog photo, as I am a sheepdog person myself. I am sorry things are so difficult. I am thinking of the saying, old age is not for the faint of heart.
By any chance, do you have younger relatives or friends who might help you with planning and logistics?

My sibling & I helped older relatives, for a decade. Our relatives had no children and lived an hour away. The younger spouse died first, leaving behind a mid 90's widower, who insisted on staying in his home. This was not perfectly safe, but it was his decision.
A fall alert device is a good idea. Putting the on a watch wristband was preferred to a necklace.The monitoring service can provide the lockbox combination when the alarm goes off & they call the the fire department. A couple of times, paramedics were summoned by the monitoring service, because our relative did not check in when the alarm was triggered. The paramedics were nice about it.
The paramedics said they check out front & back doors, to see where entry is easier. It might work put a lockbox on your back door.
They told us that they look on refrigerators for medical instructions. If you have a Do Not Resuscitate form, you should put it there, otherwise all possible efforts will be made, maybe against your wishes.
We contacted their neighbors, and shared contact info, for emergencies.
We tried to think of ways to ward off everything that could go wrong.
If there is an emergency, a social worker may be brought in. If the living situation is deemed precarious, you might lose the ability to make your own decisions.
It is good to have medical and legal powers of attorney. The young paramedics & social worker were reassured when we non elderly relatives showed up for emergencies. Older people are frail in different ways, and their abilities can be underestimated.

We persuaded our relative to have a caregiver come in 6 days/week. We covered the seventh day.
The caregiving agency provided a plan of care. In our case, the care was a deductible medical expense.
The agency also pointed out fall hazards, & advised how to make them less likely.
There were continuing small crises to deal with, and supervision was needed. There was a big divide between people that grew up with cell phones, & those challenged by a jitterbug.
Last edited by RetiredArtist on Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Flyer24
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Flyer24 »

As a reminder, medical advice is off-topic. A couple of posts were deleted.
Tucker50
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Tucker50 »

You need more than electronics. As others suggested your living arrangements are precarious. Most measures that people proposed (lock boxes, locks with keypads, fall detection devices, magic help buttons, etc) are merely stop gap measures. Time has a way of passing too quickly and mobility has a way of getting worse. A different living situation may be needed and it is always good to change before there is a crisis and rushed decisions have to be made. I inherited my mother after Katrina when she was in her 80s. She was aware that she needed to change her living arrangements and Katrina pushed the issue. Back then I put a keypad lock (simpler to use than a lockbox) on the door for any emergencies. Mom is now 98 and mostly bedridden. Time marches on so try to plan for it. Do consider assisted living.
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EngCapt1
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by EngCapt1 »

Sheepdog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:57 pm "How do the firemen get into the house to rescue her? The doors are all locked."
A residential Knox box is the best way for FD to have access to your house without breaking stuff. They're not cheap, about $175--- but much cheaper than having to replace a door or window.

https://www.knoxbox.com/products/reside ... -87/p-7048

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planetmike
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by planetmike »

Chris56789 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:36 amBut that’s just one story, alongside what I’m sure are many of EMTs cheerfully providing lift assistance when needed, and then everyone carrying on with their lives.
I'm an officer at my local rescue squad. We don't mind helping people up off the floor. We'd rather help them at 1 in the morning, than at 7 in the morning when they have pressure sores from laying on the floor all night. We can't make anyone go to the hospital if they are oriented to what is going on and can understand the risks of not going. We do have some criteria we use to help make the decision. Blood thinners? Oriented? Injuries? Length of time on floor. The opinions of other family members on scene. Most rescue squads will come out and help you check out the house for any tripping hazards. Throw rugs, cords stretched across walking paths. Piles of stuff.
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Wricha
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Wricha »

Sheepdog,
With absolutely no disrespect (as I have followed you for many years) it might be time to say either we do something different (electronics) or we need to move assisted living situation. My parents were in a very similar situation in there late 80’s and finally I had to force the situation it was extremely hard. Neighors, even EMT will will grow weary after a few calls (it’s a lot of responsibility to pass on to neighbors). My parents moved taking all their furniture and car adjusted pretty well (My Mother was less adaptable as dementia was settling in, my Father thrived there till he died at 99). My only regret was not forcing the issue sooner as my Mother could have better acclimated.
GeMoney
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by GeMoney »

Although not a solution to your needs, you may want to also consider setting up a profile with Smart911 to provide first responders additional information when you do contact 911 which can make it easier for them to support you during times of critical need. It's free and available in many areas.
https://www.smart911.com/
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Hebell »

I cannot over emphasize the opinions expressed by others here about how the burden will fall on the caretaker. The endless worries. My mother stayed for too long in her home, and would call me during every storm crying about what could happen and how she was fearful to move about. Neighbors who received calls from her for help finally called me saying they were weary of her calls. She became a pariah in her neighborhood. She stayed there till she lost every friend, every social interaction. In order to get her out I prepared two packages. One mailing was to one assisted living center and one mailing went to another. I told her whenever she was ready to leave she should drop the one she wants in the mail. If I had mailed it myself, without her physically dropping it in the mailbox by herself with me not present, I would have been accused of placing her in a facility without her approval. The whole situation was just horrible.

After 3 years she finally dropped one of the packages in the mail and moved out 2 months later.
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vanbogle59
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by vanbogle59 »

My daughter leaves her dog alone at home when she goes to work. The dog is kind of a nut.
She has this machine that alerts her (text message, I think) when the dog barks.
She can then look at the camera to see how the dog is doing and even talk to it: "Good boy. Stop eating the TV remote. Good boy."
There HAS to be something like that for people.
When I visited her, I accidentally set off the "bark" alarm by making some loud noise.
Frankly, this would work without modification if you could rely on your wife being loud.
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Sandtrap »

Arlo interior camera system allows 5 cameras.
Records still also motion activated.
Had this set up for MIL age 94.

I think there is a fall activated Apple Watch?

Keep walkers in strategic places.

Consider “in home care” at least part time so you get a break.

Have been in your shoes as the “faller” and also the “fallee “ recently too. It is a tough and dangerous situation.

Best.
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Sheepdog
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by Sheepdog »

Wonderful comments and suggestions. Somehow,....somehow I have to get assistance. My wife, as I said before, is independent (except when she falls and can't get up. :confused) . I have wanted to move to where help is available....but no...... She says, you go , I am staying here.
Oh well.
My sons will be here for Thanksgiving....... I realize that they have to get more directly involved on this issue, but it is a challenge from so far away.. Thanksgiving has to work. I'll even try to setup, or have them setup a zoom meeting in the very near future, just them and me. Lady Sheepdog won't know about it or else it may collapse. When they come on Turkey Day, maybe they will be prepared. Maybe not. I'll see.
I love her, but damn.........

(Besides, I might be the one needing rescued before long..That is very possible, isn't it.? :shock:

Thanks to all of you. Thank you.

Woof
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by hudson »

Sheepdog,

We had an older relative in our home for a year or so.
She was determined to be independent even though she wasn't physically able. She should've always used a walker, but she rarely did.
My wife and I couldn't get her off the floor when she fell, although my son and I could use the sheet trick and get her up. He was rarely available. There were many 911 calls for assistance. Nothing changed until she was not able to get out of bed and go to the bathroom herself. Since we didn't have the strength or know-how to solve that problem, we made the move to a nursing home. She never gave up her desire for independence.
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retiredjg
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by retiredjg »

Not sure this has been mentioned. There is a device that a person can use to help another get up from a fall. A friend of mine got one for her husband after numerous visits by the local ambulance squad. I think they got his from the VA. Don't know what it is called unfortunately - or where to rent/buy one.
TN_Boy
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by TN_Boy »

hudson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:33 pm Sheepdog,

We had an older relative in our home for a year or so.
She was determined to be independent even though she wasn't physically able. She should've always used a walker, but she rarely did.
My wife and I couldn't get her off the floor when she fell, although my son and I could use the sheet trick and get her up. He was rarely available. There were many 911 calls for assistance. Nothing changed until she was not able to get out of bed and go to the bathroom herself. Since we didn't have the strength or know-how to solve that problem, we made the move to a nursing home. She never gave up her desire for independence.
Nobody wants to give up their independence! I sure don't.

I fear I will be the same way -- refusing to acknowledge that after some declines, by rejecting help, I am not being independent, I am merely putting an increasing burden upon the health care system, my family and my friends.

I think it is "okay" for an elder person to live in a situation that is perhaps less safe than would be ideal. But once a person simply cannot manage things by themselves ..... one of my goals is to minimize the burden I place upon family caregivers, should I need them.

All that said, moving out of a home and neighborhood one has grown to love is a very difficult thing.
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by TN_Boy »

retiredjg wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:51 pm Not sure this has been mentioned. There is a device that a person can use to help another get up from a fall. A friend of mine got one for her husband after numerous visits by the local ambulance squad. I think they got his from the VA. Don't know what it is called unfortunately - or where to rent/buy one.
This works if there is always somebody else there to use such a device .....

Edited to add:

Moving to assisted living for a person prone to falls is not a panacea. If you fall in the middle of the night, for example, there you will stay unless you are able to call for assistance or get yourself up.

Depending on the facility*, you might be able to have wellness checks scheduled every X hours during the night, etc. And they are likely to have wearable call button devices available.

But there will be somebody around to help if they know there is a problem.

I'll further note that if someone falls, if there is any question about injury, the facility may call 911. Elderly person falls, seems a bit confused ... well, that's a possible head injury. I have seen situations where the family stepped in and said unless the facility is SURE there is a serious injury, don't call 911 if the patient falls (dementia patient that started falling a lot).

* At higher levels of care you are more likely to get regular checks.
GmanJeff
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by GmanJeff »

Sheepdog wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:58 pm Wonderful comments and suggestions. Somehow,....somehow I have to get assistance. My wife, as I said before, is independent (except when she falls and can't get up. :confused) . I have wanted to move to where help is available....but no...... She says, you go , I am staying here.
Oh well.
An emotionally difficult but potentially effective way to cope with this not-uncommon attitude would be for you to take her at her word. Move on your own into a CCRC or other environment suitable for both of you as a couple, but don't represent it that way - you're just moving to an apartment you like, which you know and keep to yourself that it is suitable for a couple as well as for one person. After a few days or weeks, or maybe a little longer if she's especially stubborn, of you leaving your current home, you may well find she chooses to follow you because she'll be unable to manage alone for long despite her claims to the contrary. This is a technique sometimes suggested by social workers under these kinds of circumstances.

An alternative (or additional) angle may be to ask that she make the move not for herself but for you. That is, you present the issue as not one of her needing help, but of you needing help. That can mitigate the extent to which agreeing to move may represent an acknowledgment by your wife that she is declining. She can pretend she's just fine, and may be able to find it in herself to altruistically make a needed change in environment for you, if not for herself.

This is easy to say, not easy to bring yourself to do, but focus on what is best for both of you, not on what makes your spouse "happy", i.e., her desire to stay where she is. A higher priority than happiness is her health and safety, and sometimes difficult choices need to be made and difficult actions taken to maximize health, safety, and thus longevity together.
Last edited by GmanJeff on Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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retiredjg
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by retiredjg »

TN_Boy wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:01 pm
retiredjg wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:51 pm Not sure this has been mentioned. There is a device that a person can use to help another get up from a fall. A friend of mine got one for her husband after numerous visits by the local ambulance squad. I think they got his from the VA. Don't know what it is called unfortunately - or where to rent/buy one.
This works if there is always somebody else there to use such a device .....
I agree. I was wondering if this might be an interim or temporary solution. Maybe she would be willing to wear a button while Sheepdog is away from home. And he could use the hydraulic lifter if he is at home.
TN_Boy
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by TN_Boy »

retiredjg wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:17 pm
TN_Boy wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:01 pm
retiredjg wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:51 pm Not sure this has been mentioned. There is a device that a person can use to help another get up from a fall. A friend of mine got one for her husband after numerous visits by the local ambulance squad. I think they got his from the VA. Don't know what it is called unfortunately - or where to rent/buy one.
This works if there is always somebody else there to use such a device .....
I agree. I was wondering if this might be an interim or temporary solution. Maybe she would be willing to wear a button while Sheepdog is away from home. And he could use the hydraulic lifter if he is at home.
I agree, but this seems to fall into the category of a bigger bandaid. When one person in a household really can't function independently, then that means the other person has to always be available, which is kinda unrealistic. If the other person goes to the hospital, or even goes out for the afternoon etc. You are basically tying the assistant to the house. That's okay to a degree, but has a lot of issues and long-term can't be sustained.

For example, caretaker goes to hospital, well, the other person now needs family (to fly or drive in) or paid help to bridge the gap while caretaker is not available.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Senior fall and other safety help need electronics

Post by JoeRetire »

Sheepdog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:57 pm My wife is 82 and I am 88 and no other family members live nearby.

If my wife falls, it is impossible for her to get up to reach a phone (she does not use and will not carry a cell phone :annoyed ). She can't crawl. She is where she is, so she must have a way to notify for help. She has been stubborn and has not accepted getting a pendant or bracelet alarm system like Lifeline, Life Alert, etc. She has fallen 3 times now and I have been around to call 911.Today it was in a bedroom. Thankfully I was home, as I usually am. Because I can't lift her, I called 911, to ask for help. I went to the front door to await the assistance. Two nice men came, lifted her, checked her vitals, and then departed. They are great.

What will she do when I am not here?
Some people simply shouldn't live alone.

Perhaps you should be looking into assisted living for her upon your demise, rather than an electronic solution.
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