When is it time to upgrade your house?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
ThankYouJack
Posts: 5704
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by ThankYouJack »

My spouse and I absolutely loved our house when we bought it and for the first 10 or so years. It was such a big upgrade moving from a tiny 1 br apartment. For the next 5 years we still really liked the house. We still appreciate the house and feel grateful for it, but am considering buying a nicer, bit bigger, much more expensive, new construction house, keeping it for 15+ years, then downsizing when we're empty nesters. But it's tough to check off all the boxes for something that we'd want.

Financially we're in good shape to upgrade. But I'm curious what others on here have done in terms of homes. How long did you keep yours and if you "extravagantly" upgraded when you could afford to do so were you happy with the decision?
User avatar
kelway
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:37 pm
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by kelway »

But the memories are in this paid-for house we bought 21 years ago. Good enough then... good enough now.
BIGal
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:34 pm
Location: NW Iowa

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by BIGal »

We built our home 25 years ago. We're both in our early 70s now. We have never regretted the decision to build. We have an almost maintenance free exterior which I recommend.

I say, if you are thinking about it, go ahead and do it. There are more things we regret NOT doing than those that we did.

Go for it!
DoubleComma
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by DoubleComma »

We’ve enjoyed every house we’ve owned, until we didn’t. Once we don’t we move on. DW and I are in mid 40s with a 7-figure net worth for the past 12+ years. We are currently living in the 4th primary house and we owned 3 different second houses. There are active conversations about home 5, which will happen in the 4-6 years as the kids leave.

Most moves so far have been larger homes, each move has been more expensive as we ended up in newer houses in nicer areas.

BHers are a great group, but so many appear exclusively focused on the optimum financial decision which means buying one house and living there forever. This is consistent with with vehicle advice and suggestion that never owning boats or second homes are the most prudent choice. We disagree on all accounts.

DW and my financial house is very much in order. We probably could have more if I lived like many around here claim; but we frequently chose to enjoy the extras in life and can easily afford it.

I suggest you re-ask yourself a slightly different question. Can you afford to move up homes, will it make you happier, if the answer to both are “Yes” then who cares what an internet stranger thinks is the best financial option.
Broken Man 1999
Posts: 8626
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am
Location: West coast of Florida, near Champa Bay !

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

We bought our current home in 1989, and have no intentions of upgrading to a different house.

We don't mind upgrading our current home, though, and we have continued to do so over the years.

No reason to move, great location, great neighbors.

When we bought we were a family of five, now just two of us in the casa.

Hopefully we will leave this home on a gurney.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
Silverado
Posts: 1650
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:07 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Silverado »

I will say, that my experience of six houses due to corporate relocations in the last 15 years, you do not get what you pay for these days.

No way I’d willingly buy a new house unless we build ourselves. Simple things like outlets in closets, a garage with an intelligent layout, and so on that builders don’t seem to do. Oh and of course the number one thing: drainage.
User avatar
Supergrover
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:15 pm
Location: PHL / NJ

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Supergrover »

I love my house. But if I have to turn the crockpot sideways to fit in the cabinet one more time, I’m gonna scream. :D
User avatar
Bogle7
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:33 am
Location: In the Witness Protection Program

Some solutions are easy

Post by Bogle7 »

Supergrover wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:05 pmI love my house. But if I have to turn the crockpot sideways to fit in the cabinet one more time, I’m gonna scream.
Replace the crockpot (and the rice cooker, and the pressure cooker) with an InstantPot. There. Solved that for you.
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
User avatar
Bogle7
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:33 am
Location: In the Witness Protection Program

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Bogle7 »

ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:31 pmMy spouse and I absolutely loved our house when we bought it and for the first 10 or so years.
How old is your current house?
Do you plan to significantly change location with a new one? If yes, what net positives does the new location offer?
What do like about your current house?
What do you hate about your current house?
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
User avatar
kelway
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:37 pm
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by kelway »

DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pm Most moves so far have been larger homes, each move has been more expensive as we ended up in newer houses in nicer areas.
Some people like to pamper themselves with ever-bigger and more expensive things and some people don't. It just depends what type of person the "internet stranger" OP is...
invest4
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:19 am

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by invest4 »

The factors your own decision making may vary.

What I found to be important:

* How well your neighborhood is aging?

* Does current house still fit your family?

* Do you have a good understanding of how you live and what features you want / need and will make you happy?

* Is the cost for what you want / need reasonable to you when you consider your financial goals?

* Are you prepared for the inevitable cost creep of your custom home whether it be unexpected issues or opportunities?

Our income would have allowed us to build a custom home many years before we actually did so. A big reason for the delay was we all loved our house and neighborhood.

After quite a few years, we felt the neighborhood was not as nice anymore, many people we knew already moved away and our family of 6 did not fit in the space as well.

We had a strong sense for how we lived and what we wanted. We spent a lot of time looking at houses and plans to find one that close enough and could be modified to make it what we wanted. As we had stayed longer in our first home (-20 years) our income and assets had grown and were more than ready to take it on, including all the unexpected costs that may arise including changes and upgrades we didn’t initially plan for.

The cost of our new house was double of the first. We are very happy and comfortable, despite almost a doubling of taxes,etc. as well.

Best wishes.
Topic Author
ThankYouJack
Posts: 5704
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by ThankYouJack »

DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pm Can you afford to move up homes, will it make you happier, if the answer to both are “Yes” then who cares what an internet stranger thinks is the best financial option.
I think the 2nd answer is yes. The tricky part of it is by not upgrading we could FIRE sooner. However, I think we're both the type who would like to work to some extent as long as we're able.
Bogle7 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:14 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:31 pmMy spouse and I absolutely loved our house when we bought it and for the first 10 or so years.
How old is your current house?
Do you plan to significantly change location with a new one? If yes, what net positives does the new location offer?
What do like about your current house?
What do you hate about your current house?
Current house is 15 years old.

New location could be in more of a neighborhood -- probably better for my kids and more social -- assuming we like most our neighbors but we get along pretty well with most people

We love the area, the house is a decent size, pretty good layout so if we move we'd probably want to stay within 20 minutes from here

We don't hate anything about the house, but may have some big repairs coming up. I wouldn't mind more and better outdoor space on our property and also a communal space like a pool, tennis courts, field. Having an extra room / office, workout space, bigger garage, mud room, pantry, updated kitchen, etc would be nice. A more modern house would be a plus.
DoubleComma
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by DoubleComma »

ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:13 pm
DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pm Can you afford to move up homes, will it make you happier, if the answer to both are “Yes” then who cares what an internet stranger thinks is the best financial option.
I think the 2nd answer is yes. The tricky part of it is by not upgrading we could FIRE sooner. However, I think we're both the type who would like to work to some extent as long as we're able.
If FIRE sooner is the priority then make the decision based on that. I imagine a move could impact you FIRE goal, is it a couple months or a couple years, and what’s it worth to you.

You will be much happier if you define your family’s goal, set you North Star to achieve it, and make financial, life, and career decisions that align to that North Star.

We can’t do that for you.
User avatar
MikeWillRetire
Posts: 790
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:36 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by MikeWillRetire »

We moved into our home 28 years ago. I remember when we were expecting our first child, our pediatrician told us that we had a decision to make. "In this county, you either buy a very expensive home in a good school district, or you live in a modest house and put your kids in private school". We chose the latter. The modest house allowed us to pay for private school. It also allowed us to pay off the mortgage early. And that allowed us to pay for their college education at the local state university. That was huge.
Now as we approach retirement, it is time to move.
User avatar
Bogle7
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:33 am
Location: In the Witness Protection Program

Money +desire

Post by Bogle7 »

ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:13 pmCurrent house is 15 years old.
So, in many jurisdictions (the codes have changed/improved), a new house would be built better:
2x6 walls - more insulation
windows - lower U rating
foundation - higher PSI concrete
hurricane ties connecting foundation to wood structure
radon mitigation
Schluter
wall hung toilets
solar on the roof
pre-wire for the BEV


Of course, if I were building a house, then 20+ years of Fine Homebuilding would come to the forefront and the cost would go to the Moon.
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
User avatar
firebirdparts
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:21 pm
Location: Southern Appalachia

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by firebirdparts »

I've only ever had one. We added on to it when we felt like it, when my son was small. I thought we'd have more kids, but we couldn't. I have a nice shop building which we built around Y2K. Here lately I am adding more and nicer outdoor "finished" space. It changes with our lifestyle.
This time is the same
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 17409
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by White Coat Investor »

ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:31 pm My spouse and I absolutely loved our house when we bought it and for the first 10 or so years. It was such a big upgrade moving from a tiny 1 br apartment. For the next 5 years we still really liked the house. We still appreciate the house and feel grateful for it, but am considering buying a nicer, bit bigger, much more expensive, new construction house, keeping it for 15+ years, then downsizing when we're empty nesters. But it's tough to check off all the boxes for something that we'd want.

Financially we're in good shape to upgrade. But I'm curious what others on here have done in terms of homes. How long did you keep yours and if you "extravagantly" upgraded when you could afford to do so were you happy with the decision?
Yes. Every time. But we only did it when we could very clearly afford it.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
User avatar
Vulcan
Posts: 2996
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Vulcan »

kelway wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:32 pm But the memories are in this paid-for house we bought 21 years ago. Good enough then... good enough now.
+1 :beer

Bought our starter home 16 years ago, before the 2nd kid was born, and before our HHI more than tripled.

And before we knew it, we went from "should we upgrade" to "good thing we didn't", with elder now out to college.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
ncbill
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: Money +desire

Post by ncbill »

Bogle7 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:10 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:13 pmCurrent house is 15 years old.
So, in many jurisdictions (the codes have changed/improved), a new house would be built better:
2x6 walls - more insulation
windows - lower U rating
foundation - higher PSI concrete
hurricane ties connecting foundation to wood structure
radon mitigation
Schluter
wall hung toilets
solar on the roof
pre-wire for the BEV


Of course, if I were building a house, then 20+ years of Fine Homebuilding would come to the forefront and the cost would go to the Moon.
Wall-hung toilet = leak city unless bolted to steel or masonry.

Wood flexes too much.
User avatar
Bogle7
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:33 am
Location: In the Witness Protection Program

Re: Money +desire

Post by Bogle7 »

ncbill wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:08 amWall-hung toilet = leak city unless bolted to steel or masonry.
Uh, no.
Image
"With a wide range of applications and tool-free maintenance, the Geberit Duofix not only provides a neat, modern finish for your bathroom development, but also an easy installation when installed. Every cistern is also tested for water tightness, while our frames are tested to withstand 400kg of weight, and with a 25-year spare parts availability guarantee, our frames really are manufactured to last."
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
jharkin
Posts: 3469
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by jharkin »

We upgraded when the occupants exceeded the space:)

That is to say, we started with 1400sq 3bd/1ba. When kids came along we managed until the oldest got to about 8 and a waiting line for the bath became common then started looking. Ended up with 4bd/3ba about 2x the sq footage on 4x land for somewhat less than 2x price.

First house was an antique. Current house is 90s vintage. There are many things we don’t miss dealing with in the antique but we VERY much miss the charm and cozyness. In the new place I spend a lot of time fixing small details (cheap finishes, hardware and code minimum plumbing/electric from the original build) but the bones are good(2x6) and I’m getting to finally do stuff like solar.

Will stay here until kids graduate and then probably downsize again.
Last edited by jharkin on Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
alfaspider
Posts: 4816
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by alfaspider »

I think the biggest reason is a change in household size. We went from our 1600sq ft house feeling like a palace with no kids to feeling cramped with two kids. My totally unscientific rule of thumb is that less than 500sq ft per person feels cramped while more than 1,000sq ft/person feels empty. Obviously room sizes and layout can matter around the edges.

School districts were also a factor in our move. While the elementary school we were zoned to before was reasonably good, the middle and high schools were mediocre at best. The new house is zoned to excellent schools for k-12.

At least around here, it seemed like you needed to roughly double your budget to see a truly significant upgrade between houses. We doubled for the last move. I think we'd need silly money before we'd be willing to double again.
surfstar
Posts: 2853
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by surfstar »

kelway wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:59 pm
DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pm Most moves so far have been larger homes, each move has been more expensive as we ended up in newer houses in nicer areas.
Some people like to pamper themselves with ever-bigger and more expensive things and some people don't. It just depends what type of person the "internet stranger" OP is...
YAHTZEE!

Oops, sorry wrong game.
BINGO!

Some people derive joy from different things; sometimes not even "things"! A small home that requires little work and cost, can allow one to pursue much more fulfilling activities on the weekends. Talk to an RE agent and they'll say the opposite, though.
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by MAKsdad »

I find moving to be loathsome, so personally I would only buy a new house if I was relocating to a completely different place or if my family had outgrown the current space. My wife and I bought first house in 2005, then bought our second house when I relocated for work in 2008. We're still in #2, but are planning a move to another location in the next year or so. Most likely house #3 will also be house #last.
rmdashrfsplat
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:22 pm

Re: Money +desire

Post by rmdashrfsplat »

Bogle7 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:12 am
ncbill wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:08 amWall-hung toilet = leak city unless bolted to steel or masonry.
Uh, no.
Image
"With a wide range of applications and tool-free maintenance, the Geberit Duofix not only provides a neat, modern finish for your bathroom development, but also an easy installation when installed. Every cistern is also tested for water tightness, while our frames are tested to withstand 400kg of weight, and with a 25-year spare parts availability guarantee, our frames really are manufactured to last."
That looks...robust. Do you live in an Arbys?
User avatar
winterfan
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 am

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by winterfan »

I don't necessarily want a newer house, or bigger house, but one that has a style I like and that has curb appeal. I'm not sure if moving for that reason makes a lot of sense financially. We like the neighborhood just fine. We bought this house when the market was hot and it was hard to find homes in general. I wish we bit the bullet and moved when our child was younger and she didn't have all of her memories tied up in this house.
cbs2002
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:10 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by cbs2002 »

DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pm We’ve enjoyed every house we’ve owned, until we didn’t. Once we don’t we move on. DW and I are in mid 40s with a 7-figure net worth for the past 12+ years.
Thanks for articulating this so simply! That's exactly where we are today - we have enjoyed where we are and now we don't, so it's time to pull the cord and not feel badly about it.
User avatar
Doom&Gloom
Posts: 5417
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:18 pm I find moving to be loathsome, so personally I would only buy a new house if I was relocating to a completely different place or if my family had outgrown the current space. My wife and I bought first house in 2005, then bought our second house when I relocated for work in 2008. We're still in #2, but are planning a move to another location in the next year or so. Most likely house #3 will also be house #last.
I thought I was the only one who hated moving that much. We have been "stuck" in this area for a number of years since DW seems to be the designated caretaker for her mother who is now 93 and still lives at home alone. DW probably wouldn't want to leave the area even if she didn't have that responsibility, and I am ok here. DW used to like to drive around to check out Open Houses as free entertainment. I think she lost interest in that when I told her that if I move again, it is going to be to the beach or the mountains; it certainly isn't going to be down the road or across town. Our location remains about as good as we are going to get under the circumstances. We have a little more house and yard than we need now that the kids are gone, but we like having the extra yard as a buffer from neighbors. We may be here for the duration.
ncbill
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: Money +desire

Post by ncbill »

Bogle7 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:12 am
ncbill wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:08 amWall-hung toilet = leak city unless bolted to steel or masonry.
Uh, no.
Image
"With a wide range of applications and tool-free maintenance, the Geberit Duofix not only provides a neat, modern finish for your bathroom development, but also an easy installation when installed. Every cistern is also tested for water tightness, while our frames are tested to withstand 400kg of weight, and with a 25-year spare parts availability guarantee, our frames really are manufactured to last."
That system includes its own steel frame ("carrier"), so yes, it is a wall-hung toilet "bolted to steel or masonry."

Note that the wooden framing members to which the carrier is attached must be able to support a nearly 900 lb. load.
User avatar
Brianmcg321
Posts: 1875
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:23 am

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Brianmcg321 »

I would just upgrade your existing house.
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.
User avatar
Kagord
Posts: 1676
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:28 pm
Location: Peaksville, Ohio

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Kagord »

A bigger home is just more hassle to deal with, I long for the days of being nomadic in a van.

I guess the real tragedy of life is you get what you want, with a little insatiable desire sprinkled on top.
User avatar
kelway
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:37 pm
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by kelway »

Kagord wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:59 pm A bigger home is just more hassle to deal with, I long for the days of being nomadic in a van.

I guess the real tragedy of life is you get what you want, with a little insatiable desire sprinkled on top.
For sure. It's why I remind myself that not wanting it is as good as possessing it....
iamlucky13
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by iamlucky13 »

DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pmBHers are a great group, but so many appear exclusively focused on the optimum financial decision which means buying one house and living there forever. This is consistent with with vehicle advice and suggestion that never owning boats or second homes are the most prudent choice. We disagree on all accounts.
One thing to keep in mind here is members have a wide range of incomes. A lot of Bogleheads seem to be in the upper decile for the US, and overlook that plenty of us are below that level (the converse is also true). Most of us across the income ranges agree that it is not an optimized financial decision to save money beyond what one credibly expects to ever spend, although I know some do want to leave an inheritance or establish a trust for some cause that may be important to them. I'm pretty certain the recurring posts resistant to unnecessary spending on principle regardless of how easily affordable it is are a very small minority of Bogleheads posts.

I suspect I'm on a similar trajectory to the OP, but at a few years earlier life stage. I hope in 5-10 years to be able to upgrade from the home we currently live in. I have a couple existing higher priorities, so the main variable I have available to play with is retirement age (or I could do a mix of retirement age and reduced recreational pursuits, vacations, and other recurring discretionary expenses).

I don't realistically expect to ever be able to afford a second home, much less upgrade a second home multiple times, but I suppose its the same decision extended further into the category of discretionary spending. So your advice about considering affordability first and then happiness is still appropriate, although I get the sense that the relative ease with which it sounds like you were able to afford to upgrade your homes makes it possible to overlook that even upgrading a single home can be challenge.

Regardless of which decision we're talking about, it's still not always clear which will make me happier in the long run. Upgrading our home significantly would likely delay retirement by several years compared to settling for a modest remodel. But a remodel won't resolve many of the aspects of our current home that limit our satisfaction with it.
veindoc
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by veindoc »

I get an inkling here or there when I see a home with a pool or the latest finishes but I think it would be hard to find a better home. We have enough bedrooms, big kitchen, large backyard etc. And we can also remodel if need be. So the added expense never quite seems worth it to me. Plus we are so close to paying off our home, that I can’t imagine starting all over. We have been paying double the mortgage for ten years. I’m looking forward to the day to get the cash back in our pocket. We may not even know what to do with all the money.
DoubleComma
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by DoubleComma »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:07 pm
DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pmBHers are a great group, but so many appear exclusively focused on the optimum financial decision which means buying one house and living there forever. This is consistent with with vehicle advice and suggestion that never owning boats or second homes are the most prudent choice. We disagree on all accounts.
One thing to keep in mind here is members have a wide range of incomes. A lot of Bogleheads seem to be in the upper decile for the US, and overlook that plenty of us are below that level (the converse is also true). Most of us across the income ranges agree that it is not an optimized financial decision to save money beyond what one credibly expects to ever spend, although I know some do want to leave an inheritance or establish a trust for some cause that may be important to them. I'm pretty certain the recurring posts resistant to unnecessary spending on principle regardless of how easily affordable it is are a very small minority of Bogleheads posts.

I suspect I'm on a similar trajectory to the OP, but at a few years earlier life stage. I hope in 5-10 years to be able to upgrade from the home we currently live in. I have a couple existing higher priorities, so the main variable I have available to play with is retirement age (or I could do a mix of retirement age and reduced recreational pursuits, vacations, and other recurring discretionary expenses).

I don't realistically expect to ever be able to afford a second home, much less upgrade a second home multiple times, but I suppose its the same decision extended further into the category of discretionary spending. So your advice about considering affordability first and then happiness is still appropriate, although I get the sense that the relative ease with which it sounds like you were able to afford to upgrade your homes makes it possible to overlook that even upgrading a single home can be challenge.

Regardless of which decision we're talking about, it's still not always clear which will make me happier in the long run. Upgrading our home significantly would likely delay retirement by several years compared to settling for a modest remodel. But a remodel won't resolve many of the aspects of our current home that limit our satisfaction with it.
I don’t disagree with anything you say. You are basically describing trade offs. Everyone makes them regardless on income level.

My point is simply don’t get myopically focused on one thing if you find the trade offs to achieve that one thing are making you unhappy. This life is way to short to be unhappy.

In the OPs original post there no mention of a competing priority, just they want to upgrade homes and can afford it. Not until his response did the concept of FIRE get brought up and this home could impact that. None of us can help someone with advise if we don’t know what their personal priority is and how the choice they make could impact it.

If someone has the priority to leave an inheritance to the next generation or to a charity that is what they should make decision around.

My priority is to not regret the life I could have live today in exchange for a potential future life I may or. It make it too. That said, I’m no way ignoring savings and retirement, and those accounts are growing nicely, but I’m enjoying life and making memories today that I can’t tomorrow.
toomanysidehustles
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:09 am

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:31 pm But I'm curious what others on here have done in terms of homes. How long did you keep yours and if you "extravagantly" upgraded when you could afford to do so were you happy with the decision?
We are in our dream home in an awesome neighborhood and have 26 year old trees now. The one thing we didn't love is the 1994 honey oak trim. Honey oak everywhere. We did a full remodel starting this time last year and the contractor just had the porta potty sitting in our driveway (for a year) removed last week. Buying a new construction home would have been way easier, but we love the location of our home and now have a fully updated home. I should probably write a book about doing a full gut remodel during a pandemic (removed two walls, doubled the size of the kitchen, deleted the formal dining room, etc. etc.) but we were fortunate to have a few rental properties to live temporarily when the dust was flying!
Last edited by toomanysidehustles on Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 19591
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi - white sandy beaches, N. Arizona 1 mile high.

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Sandtrap »

DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:53 pm We’ve enjoyed every house we’ve owned, until we didn’t. Once we don’t we move on. DW and I are in mid 40s with a 7-figure net worth for the past 12+ years. We are currently living in the 4th primary house and we owned 3 different second houses. There are active conversations about home 5, which will happen in the 4-6 years as the kids leave.

Most moves so far have been larger homes, each move has been more expensive as we ended up in newer houses in nicer areas.

BHers are a great group, but so many appear exclusively focused on the optimum financial decision which means buying one house and living there forever. This is consistent with with vehicle advice and suggestion that never owning boats or second homes are the most prudent choice. We disagree on all accounts.

DW and my financial house is very much in order. We probably could have more if I lived like many around here claim; but we frequently chose to enjoy the extras in life and can easily afford it.

I suggest you re-ask yourself a slightly different question. Can you afford to move up homes, will it make you happier, if the answer to both are “Yes” then who cares what an internet stranger thinks is the best financial option.
Great points!
Well said.

j🌺
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 19591
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi - white sandy beaches, N. Arizona 1 mile high.

Re: Money +desire

Post by Sandtrap »

ncbill wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:29 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:12 am
ncbill wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:08 amWall-hung toilet = leak city unless bolted to steel or masonry.
Uh, no.
Image
"With a wide range of applications and tool-free maintenance, the Geberit Duofix not only provides a neat, modern finish for your bathroom development, but also an easy installation when installed. Every cistern is also tested for water tightness, while our frames are tested to withstand 400kg of weight, and with a 25-year spare parts availability guarantee, our frames really are manufactured to last."
That system includes its own steel frame ("carrier"), so yes, it is a wall-hung toilet "bolted to steel or masonry."

Note that the wooden framing members to which the carrier is attached must be able to support a nearly 900 lb. load.
Wow!
900 pounds….
That is severe leverage on a standard home construction.
The ends of the studs, even if doubled, would be stressing the sill / top / base plates. Also the floor and TGIs below unless it’s a cement floor.
I can see how they might have added steel framing in that picture.

j🌺
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
Nowizard
Posts: 4839
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Nowizard »

Interesting comment, particularly when it is almost impossible to get timely contracting work during the Covid19 epidemic on housing related issues. Discounting the part that says many are upgrading because they are not spending on other items and are spending more time at home, we have upgraded to whatever we choose. We have generally lived in homes that are relatively new, so nothing major. We are now in the middle of what is the most significant upgrade for us, however; all changes are cosmetic and represent "wants," not "needs."
Tim
hoofaman
Posts: 973
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:39 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by hoofaman »

We made our decision primarily based on location, local area amentities (trails, access to nature), and quality of school district. With our move, there was marked upgrade in the quality of the schools. Large backyard, next to park, etc.

It was never about the house itself.

The new house we got was 2x larger than our old house, we didn’t need the extra space but in the neighborhood that was just the standard size for all the housing. Having a finished basement for an WFH office and gym has been handy as well. Despite being much better built than our old house, the cost per square foot was only 10% higher at $110/sqft vs $99/sqft. Property taxes are higher for the new house, but energy costs were much lower, I guess the old house must have had poor insulation and more inefficent HVAC.

Really glad we upgraded the house, it’s value has doubled in the past 8 years but even if it had lost value over that time it still would have been worth it to us, big quality of life improvement.
SQRT
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:44 am

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by SQRT »

This was a big issue for us as far as our lake house was concerned. Bought it in 1997. Turned out to be our favourite place in the world. Since retirement 15 years ago it gradually started to look and feel “old” and needed major work. The location was perfect though. So selling and buying somewhere else didn’t appeal to us. It was about 3,000 sq ft, had 4-5 bedrooms but only 2 washrooms. That was a problem when we entertained.

After 3-5 years of thinking about it, in 2019 we decided to rebuild. Hired a well known architect whose style (contemporary-steel, stone, glass, natural wood) really appealed to us. Cost was initially more than we felt comfortable with, but the markets were up, so we decided to proceed. New place will be about twice the size, 5 bedrooms all with ensuites. Single story, minimal stairs.

I’m 71 my spouse is 64 and we figured it is now or never on this project. I have one heir (daughter) who will inherit this house. It seemed like a better idea to rebuild now so that we all could enjoy it together for the next ??? years rather than letting it run down further and leaving it to our daughter to deal with. She has been very involved in its design which features two wings, one for each of us. Foundations are in, framing starting, hopefully enclosed before the snow flies. Should be done by 1/1/2023.

So, as you can see, the decision to rebuild is very personal and it’s difficult to give advice. Many factors go into the decision, age, means, lifestyle, family, health,etc. Good luck.

PS. Decided not to use wall mounted toilets as I was concerned about installation and future repairs.
Last edited by SQRT on Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
quantAndHold
Posts: 10141
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by quantAndHold »

We’ve only changed when we had life changes that made it necessary. Then we chose carefully, and fixed up what we had over the years, to make it what we wanted.

Living in a 90 year old house, I’m having trouble picturing what would be more “modern” about a house that’s newer than 15 years old, except that the kitchen and bathrooms would look more like the current season of the HGTV remodeling shows.
alfaspider
Posts: 4816
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by alfaspider »

quantAndHold wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:23 am We’ve only changed when we had life changes that made it necessary. Then we chose carefully, and fixed up what we had over the years, to make it what we wanted.

Living in a 90 year old house, I’m having trouble picturing what would be more “modern” about a house that’s newer than 15 years old, except that the kitchen and bathrooms would look more like the current season of the HGTV remodeling shows.
A few things I can think of that a house built in the last few years will have:

PEX plumbing (20 year old houses will be mostly PVC which is fine but harder to work on, 40+ year olds use galvanized pipe that may be near end of its lifecycle)

Electrical code items (10+ year old houses won't have things like arc fault protection in the breaker box, 50+ year may not have fully grounded outlets). Old houses may have 100A or less electrical service, which could be a problem for things like electric vehicle chargers. They also tend to have fewer electrical outlets and/or outlets in locations less suited to modern uses (like big entertainment systems in the living room).

Insulation: Newer construction tends to be much better insulated, more efficient windows

Ceiling height: very old homes (pre air conditioning) often had high ceilings, but there was a period from the 1960s-1980s where even fairly fancy houses only had 8 foot ceilings. Anything new that is reasonably high end will have at least 9-10 foot. You can't fix low ceiling height with a remodel.

HVAC layout design: Homes built before central heat/air may have retrofits that are less efficient than a house that was designed for these systems or it may be difficult to access the systems for service/replacement.

Water heaters: newer homes tend to have tankless (can be retrfotitted, but location may not be ideal)

Room sizes: older homes often had a lot of small rooms instead of bigger ones. It's not always feasible to knock out walls and combine walls.

Miscellaneous code issues: newer homes will probably do better in a fire or severe storm, less likely to have toxic materials, less likely to have various safety issues that were addressed in subsequent changes to building codes.

I live in a 60 year old house, so I'm not a new house snob by any means, but there is a reason why brand new homes command a premium in the market place besides the latest HGTV kitchens.
surfstar
Posts: 2853
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by surfstar »

kelway wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:06 pm
Kagord wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:59 pm A bigger home is just more hassle to deal with, I long for the days of being nomadic in a van.

I guess the real tragedy of life is you get what you want, with a little insatiable desire sprinkled on top.
For sure. It's why I remind myself that not wanting it is as good as possessing it....
You just need a big enough house that has room to install a Hedonic Treadmill and you're set!
harrychan
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:37 pm
Location: Pasadena

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by harrychan »

It's a loaded question. We're somewhat in the same position. In our mind, we know it is best we stay put but deep down we went to move or remodel. We may be able to do a minor remodel but anything that costs 6 figures or above will mean a change in lifestyle. It's a matter of what compromises you're willing to make. We're a family of 4 with boys in early teens. The home is 1800 sq ft, 3 bedroom 2 baths which we've bought 11 years ago for $600k. Generous for relatively HCOL area but it does feel we're missing an office or a 4th bedroom. We also could never house guests. Anything that can be considered an upgrade will go $1.5M and may not be move in ready.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
chw
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by chw »

We went through what you are after about 10 years of ownership as well. We opted to update our existing home which included an addition to accommodate some of what we were seeking in a new home. We were happy with our neighbors and neighborhood, and felt we would wish we had that home as we became empty nesters. We ended up staying 31 years, and sold when we retired to move into our vacation home.
RoadagentMN
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:09 am

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by RoadagentMN »

I would recommend waiting for a market correction on the housing market- and then yes go for it.
User avatar
Bogle7
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:33 am
Location: In the Witness Protection Program

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by Bogle7 »

harrychan wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:00 pm. We're a family of 4 with boys in early teens. The home is 1800 sq ft
How is even possible to have 4 people in only 1800 sqft?
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
User avatar
quantAndHold
Posts: 10141
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by quantAndHold »

alfaspider wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:34 am
quantAndHold wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:23 am We’ve only changed when we had life changes that made it necessary. Then we chose carefully, and fixed up what we had over the years, to make it what we wanted.

Living in a 90 year old house, I’m having trouble picturing what would be more “modern” about a house that’s newer than 15 years old, except that the kitchen and bathrooms would look more like the current season of the HGTV remodeling shows.
A few things I can think of that a house built in the last few years will have:

PEX plumbing (20 year old houses will be mostly PVC which is fine but harder to work on, 40+ year olds use galvanized pipe that may be near end of its lifecycle)

Electrical code items (10+ year old houses won't have things like arc fault protection in the breaker box, 50+ year may not have fully grounded outlets). Old houses may have 100A or less electrical service, which could be a problem for things like electric vehicle chargers. They also tend to have fewer electrical outlets and/or outlets in locations less suited to modern uses (like big entertainment systems in the living room).

Insulation: Newer construction tends to be much better insulated, more efficient windows

Ceiling height: very old homes (pre air conditioning) often had high ceilings, but there was a period from the 1960s-1980s where even fairly fancy houses only had 8 foot ceilings. Anything new that is reasonably high end will have at least 9-10 foot. You can't fix low ceiling height with a remodel.

HVAC layout design: Homes built before central heat/air may have retrofits that are less efficient than a house that was designed for these systems or it may be difficult to access the systems for service/replacement.

Water heaters: newer homes tend to have tankless (can be retrfotitted, but location may not be ideal)

Room sizes: older homes often had a lot of small rooms instead of bigger ones. It's not always feasible to knock out walls and combine walls.

Miscellaneous code issues: newer homes will probably do better in a fire or severe storm, less likely to have toxic materials, less likely to have various safety issues that were addressed in subsequent changes to building codes.

I live in a 60 year old house, so I'm not a new house snob by any means, but there is a reason why brand new homes command a premium in the market place besides the latest HGTV kitchens.
We’re talking about a 15 year old house, not 60 years old. I seriously doubt OP is considering moving because they don’t have PEX pipes or the latest and greatest electric box. Most people shopping for houses would be hard pressed to even know the difference about anything except room size and cosmetics.
vested1
Posts: 3496
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:20 pm

Re: When is it time to upgrade your house?

Post by vested1 »

Bogle7 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:52 pm
harrychan wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:00 pm. We're a family of 4 with boys in early teens. The home is 1800 sq ft
How is even possible to have 4 people in only 1800 sqft?
We had 5 in our 3x2 1372 sq ft home in California from the time our kids were 6, 9, and 12 (1994) until they were on their own. After they moved out we lived in it until 2019. Having them occasionally move back in or having house guests was difficult, especially after I converted one bedroom to a home office. Sometimes visiting family would stay in a motel rather than share our cramped quarters. I wouldn't recommend following our example, but sometimes your finances don't provide many choices.

Now we live in a 5x3, 3077 sq ft on a lake in a LCOL State and wish we had this much room and access to nature when the kids were young. When you start out with nothing you waste a lot of years getting to a place where you can afford better options. Since the OP doesn't have that constraint I say go for it. Life is too short.
Post Reply