Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

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VeryBlessedCali
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Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

Greetings Folks…hope you are enjoying you weekend.

Eager to hear about your experience with SOLAR. I have a new construction ADU (749 sq ft) complete next week, all electric and it needs 90Amps. Plan was PG&E upgrade/new service request for 100amp but PG&E said this request will require installing a new Transformer and engineering estimate which takes 6 months. The PG&E service application demands $1,500 “engineering advance” plus Amount X which is the cost for Transformer and all work they have to do etc. The Amount X is unknown and nobody can give me a ballpark amount, all they can say is that the estimate will take 6 months (scratches head).

Your inputs/advice regarding SOLAR would be greatly appreciated. I am strongly considering Solar to power the ADU since PG&E is a major pain. Contractor had been working with them for my ADU since May. And then last week, they tell us about the need for Transformer etc. Sunny California Bay Area/Peninsula.

Thank you in advance and have a BLESSED Day!
mighty72
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by mighty72 »

I have no clue but a question. Are you talking about ADU being off the grid? If yes, what is your back up for solar? Bay Area has rain in winters + short days; battery will not work. I think this is an important consideration before others can help.

Also, what is your estimated usage? You gave amperage but how many KWatts you expect to use annually and what will be your peak usage.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

mighty72 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:23 pm I have no clue but a question. Are you talking about ADU being off the grid? If yes, what is your back up for solar? Bay Area has rain in winters + short days; battery will not work. I think this is an important consideration before others can help.

Also, what is your estimated usage? You gave amperage but how many KWatts you expect to use annually and what will be your peak usage.
Hi Mighty 272- Thank you for your question. I understand I have a lot of research to do to figure out what Solar would work for the ADU.
Estimated usage is 10 kWh per day.

Many Thanks again.
suemarkp
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by suemarkp »

If this is an accessory building on a property with another one, can you feed it from the other building? A 90A calculated load will most likely not need that much power often if ever. Frankly, I'm surprised PG&E is balking at that small load unless the existing system is already overloaded and you are the excuse to fix it. Adding a 100A feeder off an existing service isn't too difficult, but you need to have the calculated load margin to do it.

If you power this from another building, you may not be able to sub meter. So tenant would need power included in rent price.

The typical solar installation requires the grid to function (most people have solar systems with no battery). If you want total off grid, it will be expensive as you'll need a battery (a big one).
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

suemarkp wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:46 pm If this is an accessory building on a property with another one, can you feed it from the other building? A 90A calculated load will most likely not need that much power often if ever. Frankly, I'm surprised PG&E is balking at that small load unless the existing system is already overloaded and you are the excuse to fix it. Adding a 100A feeder off an existing service isn't too difficult, but you need to have the calculated load margin to do it.

If you power this from another building, you may not be able to sub meter. So tenant would need power included in rent price.

The typical solar installation requires the grid to function (most people have solar systems with no battery). If you want total off grid, it will be expensive as you'll need a battery (a big one).
Thank you suemarkp! Yes this is an accessory building in the backyard of the main property. Yes the plan (City Approved) is to feed the ADU from the main building. The City approved the Sub Panel of the accessory building in June. It shocked us that PG&E is causing so much fuss to add 100A for our request. There are so many ADU’s that had been constructed in my area since CA eased laws for ADUs and PG&E has “Express Connect” for them. Literally takes 1 week for the power connection. So it is frustrating to say the least that for mine, the estimate would take 6 months (sigh).

This accessory building will be owner occupied.

Thank you suemarkp for the info. I will have to look at Solar rebates to offset the cost.
RetiredAL
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by RetiredAL »

4 weeks ago, PGE replaced the 1950 installed and now undersized transformer that fed 4 homes on our block. The testing done by PGE was done 1 year ago. Every time the neighbor's AC started late afternoon and evening, there was a very significant flickering of our lights due the voltage sag during the AC start. Why that time frame? During the day, their solar provided enough power that these AC starting dips where not objectionable, but became objectionable as their south facing solar panels lost favored sun angles in the late afternoon. The original transformer was only rated for 10KVA (44amps) and was installed when these homes only had 60 amp panels. Today, we all have 125 to 200 amp panels. The replacement transformer is 25 KVA, so 2.5x larger capacity, and has resolved the voltage sag on the AC start.

I can't speak to your up-front engineering cost request nor PGE's actual cost to replace of our transformer, but it took 1 year to from the testing date to the actual work being performed date.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

RetiredAL wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:25 pm 4 weeks ago, PGE replaced the 1950 installed and now undersized transformer that fed 4 homes on our block. The testing done by PGE was done 1 year ago. Every time the neighbor's AC started late afternoon and evening, there was a very significant flickering of our lights due the voltage sag during the AC start. Why that time frame? During the day, their solar provided enough power that these AC starting dips where not objectionable, but became objectionable as their south facing solar panels lost favored sun angles in the late afternoon. The original transformer was only rated for 10KVA (44amps) and was installed when these homes only had 60 amp panels. Today, we all have 125 to 200 amp panels. The replacement transformer is 25 KVA, so 2.5x larger capacity, and has resolved the voltage sag on the AC start.

I can't speak to your up-front engineering cost request nor PGE's actual cost to replace of our transformer, but it took 1 year to from the testing date to the actual work being performed date.

Thank you for this info RetiredAL. This is very informative. The ADU (accessory building) is complete next week and it would just be frustrating to wait for PG&E for that stretch of time until they can complete the Transformer work. All the more reason to look into SOLAR to power the ADU. I will research as much as I can. I was hoping for Solar Company Referrals in CA SF Bay Area.

Thank you again RetiredAL.
moe001
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by moe001 »

Hi, I suggest you try energysage.com This site lets you research and shop for solar through their network of pre-screened, local installers. Bids for your job are collected competitively, and you are under no obligation to accept any. I used them to identify exactly what I needed and have it installed in Northern California. When I contacted a local installer direct, his estimate was $5K more than the bid I accepted. Four years later, no problems. The contractor I chose said I got a rock bottom price because the site uses competitive bids. Good Luck, Moe
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tyrion
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by tyrion »

Regardless of whether you install solar or not you will need a connection to the grid.

As others have mentioned solar only works when the sun is shining. You can add batteries (I have 2 Tesla Powerwalls so I'm quite familiar with how they work and the limitations) and they get expensive in a hurry and don't make sense for true off-grid living unless it's your only option. To get through any storms or cloudy days you would need a substantial battery reserve and even then it would always be a matter of monitoring your battery levels to ensure you can make it through. It sure beats no power if there's a grid outage, but I wouldn't want to voluntarily sign up for that on an every-day basis.
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cchrissyy
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by cchrissyy »

I have solar panels and battery in California but of course it's with a grid connection and took many months from ordering to going live.

So I don't see how any info I'd have helps get your ADU powered any sooner.

I wonder if your better path is pushing back at PGE about these city approved plans and the fact your place is done other than this? Also, whoever managed the construction job should be pushed to fix it faster because of course it's frustrating to you to have a project completed all except for one crucial element. That's not acceptable.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

cchrissyy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:43 pm I have solar panels and battery in California but of course it's with a grid connection and took many months from ordering to going live.

So I don't see how any info I'd have helps get your ADU powered any sooner.

I wonder if your better path is pushing back at PGE about these city approved plans and the fact your place is done other than this? Also, whoever managed the construction job should be pushed to fix it faster because of course it's frustrating to you to have a project completed all except for one crucial element. That's not acceptable.
Many Thanks for this, cchrissyy. I agree with you completely and I have been pushing my GC to get this resolved. He said he has done 90 ADUs and this is the first time to encounter a PG&E problem. He said all the 89 ADUs he completed had PG&E connection in 1 week and that because he has not had my PG&E problem before he does not know what to do. I was so frustrated that he is so cavalier about my project. He continued on saying PG&E will listen to Homeowner more than GC and that I should make the PG&E calls. And that’s what I have been doing the past 3 weeks. As you can see, my frustration is at Level 10 and I’m trying so hard to keep it together. I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

Thank you again cchrissy.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

moe001 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:37 pm Hi, I suggest you try energysage.com This site lets you research and shop for solar through their network of pre-screened, local installers. Bids for your job are collected competitively, and you are under no obligation to accept any. I used them to identify exactly what I needed and have it installed in Northern California. When I contacted a local installer direct, his estimate was $5K more than the bid I accepted. Four years later, no problems. The contractor I chose said I got a rock bottom price because the site uses competitive bids. Good Luck, Moe
This is very helpful moe001- THANK YOU very much! I sincerely appreciate all this info.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

tyrion wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:37 pm Regardless of whether you install solar or not you will need a connection to the grid.

As others have mentioned solar only works when the sun is shining. You can add batteries (I have 2 Tesla Powerwalls so I'm quite familiar with how they work and the limitations) and they get expensive in a hurry and don't make sense for true off-grid living unless it's your only option. To get through any storms or cloudy days you would need a substantial battery reserve and even then it would always be a matter of monitoring your battery levels to ensure you can make it through. It sure beats no power if there's a grid outage, but I wouldn't want to voluntarily sign up for that on an every-day basis.
Tyrion- first, I absolutely love Tyrion Lanister. Now that I got that out of the way, Thank you for all the information you provided.

It does appear that at present, PG&E will require me to sign a legally binding contract that says I will pay for the Transformer Upgrade that they need to fix…on my dime. This Transformer is necessary for me to connect to the grid. So as you can see, I am filled with despair. As though that wasn’t bad enough, it will take them 6 months just to come up with the Estimate of how much I need to pay them.

I can post the exact wording of PG&E verbatim that says I need to pay for all the costs PG&E incurs even in the event that I cancel my project.

In the meantime, I have a 95% complete ADU in my backyard that passed all City inspections except for Final. A near complete ADU without power. City needs the ADU to have power for the Final inspection.
RetiredAL
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by RetiredAL »

VeryBlessedCali wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:11 pm
tyrion wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:37 pm Regardless of whether you install solar or not you will need a connection to the grid.

As others have mentioned solar only works when the sun is shining. You can add batteries (I have 2 Tesla Powerwalls so I'm quite familiar with how they work and the limitations) and they get expensive in a hurry and don't make sense for true off-grid living unless it's your only option. To get through any storms or cloudy days you would need a substantial battery reserve and even then it would always be a matter of monitoring your battery levels to ensure you can make it through. It sure beats no power if there's a grid outage, but I wouldn't want to voluntarily sign up for that on an every-day basis.
Tyrion- first, I absolutely love Tyrion Lanister. Now that I got that out of the way, Thank you for all the information you provided.

It does appear that at present, PG&E will require me to sign a legally binding contract that says I will pay for the Transformer Upgrade that they need to fix…on my dime. This Transformer is necessary for me to connect to the grid. So as you can see, I am filled with despair. As though that wasn’t bad enough, it will take them 6 months just to come up with the Estimate of how much I need to pay them.

I can post the exact wording of PG&E verbatim that says I need to pay for all the costs PG&E incurs even in the event that I cancel my project.

In the meantime, I have a 95% complete ADU in my backyard that passed all City inspections except for Final. A near complete ADU without power. City needs the ADU to have power for the Final inspection.
Can you connect the ADU as a "sub" to your panel until PGE makes a determination?
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

RetiredAL wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:29 pm
VeryBlessedCali wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:11 pm
tyrion wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:37 pm Regardless of whether you install solar or not you will need a connection to the grid.

As others have mentioned solar only works when the sun is shining. You can add batteries (I have 2 Tesla Powerwalls so I'm quite familiar with how they work and the limitations) and they get expensive in a hurry and don't make sense for true off-grid living unless it's your only option. To get through any storms or cloudy days you would need a substantial battery reserve and even then it would always be a matter of monitoring your battery levels to ensure you can make it through. It sure beats no power if there's a grid outage, but I wouldn't want to voluntarily sign up for that on an every-day basis.
Tyrion- first, I absolutely love Tyrion Lanister. Now that I got that out of the way, Thank you for all the information you provided.

It does appear that at present, PG&E will require me to sign a legally binding contract that says I will pay for the Transformer Upgrade that they need to fix…on my dime. This Transformer is necessary for me to connect to the grid. So as you can see, I am filled with despair. As though that wasn’t bad enough, it will take them 6 months just to come up with the Estimate of how much I need to pay them.

I can post the exact wording of PG&E verbatim that says I need to pay for all the costs PG&E incurs even in the event that I cancel my project.

In the meantime, I have a 95% complete ADU in my backyard that passed all City inspections except for Final. A near complete ADU without power. City needs the ADU to have power for the Final inspection.
Can you connect the ADU as a "sub" to your panel until PGE makes a determination?

Thank you RetiredAL. This is what the Electrician of the ADU suggested 2 weeks ago (he is the one that did the ADU sub panel that City passed and all electrical in the ADU). To my surprise last week, the Electrician informed me that he spoke to the GC (his boss) about his plan to connect the ADU as sub to the main panel until PGE makes a determination. Electrician said the GC told him he will fire him if he does that because of liability. GC said my option was to apply for “temporary power” from PG&E. I inquired about this and PG&E said even the request for Temporary Power would require them to Install the New Transformer and I’m back to square one. As you can see- this is a Real Nightmare for me.

A friend of mine suggested to inform PG&E that I will report this to California PUC (public utility commission) because none of this makes any sense anymore.
suemarkp
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by suemarkp »

That is kind of what I was getting at in my post -- power it from a feeder from your existing house and don't involve PG&E initially. Part of the permitting process may require a load calculation and OK from the utility of the increased load. If that's the case, this approach won't help. But every time I've added a feeder here in WA, no one asked for a load calculation or about the utility, so I could do what I wanted and only needed an inspection.

Perhaps the transformer is over taxed or marginal. The only way to know would be what size is it and how many houses are connected to it. Perhaps the electrical contractor has done this and knows the transformer is too small. Or maybe no one looked and they are just covering their butts. Perhaps ask another electrical contractor if they will feed this from a feeder from your main house at least until PG&E can get around to connecting it with a normal utility feed. Air conditioning is probably PG&E worst load, and air conditioning season is going away. But heat pumps are bad too if everyone is running those for heat.

Around here, it doesn't take that long to get a transformer upgrade. I changed my last house from a 25 KVA to a 50 KVA transformer and it only fed two houses. I had to pay for the larger transformer and the larger wire from the street to the house. I thought their prices were excessive (about $2K for the transformer, wire, and disconnect/reconnect in 2003 so will be higher now), but you have no choice with a utility. At least they were responsive and it all happened within a month or so.

You may want to go ahead and agree to the transformer upgrade since you've already built the ADU, and it isn't going to cost nearly what solar will (and do you even have enough roof space to run a the whole house off solar). It would just irritate me though if PGE isn't providing an adequate level of service based on growth over time and they are wanting you to pay for it. If they plan 60A as "standard" for a house (and this has nothing to do with the panel main breaker size), you will be about double that so it does make sense that you pay for the service required above "standard". Perhaps ask the public utilities commission what the standard level of power service is for a home and find out how many homes are on your transformer to see if it is right sized. The KVA size is usually marked with large numbers on the transformer, and the standard sizes are 15, 25, 37.5, 50, 75, and 100 KVA. Currently, my neighbor and I share a 25 KVA transformer and its easy to tell because it is pole mounted. If it is on a pad, you may not know how many houses are connected to it.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

suemarkp wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:28 pm That is kind of what I was getting at in my post -- power it from a feeder from your existing house and don't involve PG&E initially. Part of the permitting process may require a load calculation and OK from the utility of the increased load. If that's the case, this approach won't help. But every time I've added a feeder here in WA, no one asked for a load calculation or about the utility, so I could do what I wanted and only needed an inspection.

Perhaps the transformer is over taxed or marginal. The only way to know would be what size is it and how many houses are connected to it. Perhaps the electrical contractor has done this and knows the transformer is too small. Or maybe no one looked and they are just covering their butts. Perhaps ask another electrical contractor if they will feed this from a feeder from your main house at least until PG&E can get around to connecting it with a normal utility feed. Air conditioning is probably PG&E worst load, and air conditioning season is going away. But heat pumps are bad too if everyone is running those for heat.

Around here, it doesn't take that long to get a transformer upgrade. I changed my last house from a 25 KVA to a 50 KVA transformer and it only fed two houses. I had to pay for the larger transformer and the larger wire from the street to the house. I thought their prices were excessive (about $2K for the transformer, wire, and disconnect/reconnect in 2003 so will be higher now), but you have no choice with a utility. At least they were responsive and it all happened within a month or so.

You may want to go ahead and agree to the transformer upgrade since you've already built the ADU, and it isn't going to cost nearly what solar will (and do you even have enough roof space to run a the whole house off solar). It would just irritate me though if PGE isn't providing an adequate level of service based on growth over time and they are wanting you to pay for it. If they plan 60A as "standard" for a house (and this has nothing to do with the panel main breaker size), you will be about double that so it does make sense that you pay for the service required above "standard". Perhaps ask the public utilities commission what the standard level of power service is for a home and find out how many homes are on your transformer to see if it is right sized. The KVA size is usually marked with large numbers on the transformer, and the standard sizes are 15, 25, 37.5, 50, 75, and 100 KVA. Currently, my neighbor and I share a 25 KVA transformer and its easy to tell because it is pole mounted. If it is on a pad, you may not know how many houses are connected to it.

Many Many Thanks suemarkp! All you information had been extremely helpful to me.

I am certain I can get another Electrician who can power the ADU from a feeder from existing house until PG&E can get around to connecting with normal power feed. The issue here Now will be my Contract with GC indicates Homeowner (me) will not have any other contractors involved with the project. So I might need consult with Contract Lawyer to see what my legal rights are with respect to having my own Electrician do this work.

Upon research, every 3rd house on my street has a Transformer on their Pole. The Pole servicing my house is the only pole on the street without a Transformer. So the work PG&E needs to do is Install Transformer, not Upgrade Transformer ,because the Transformer on my pole is non-existent.
I would be over the moon happy if they can do the Transformer work the same speed as yours, within a month or so. When I inquired about this, they said just the Estimate for the cost is 6 months and they don’t know when they can work on it.

Many Thanks again for your help, suemarkp!
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VeryBlessedCali
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Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Good morning.

Believe it or not, this is Reality for me. PG&E requiring me to sign a Blank Check to them.

“IMPORTANT: By going forward with this project and paying the engineering advance to PG&E you are also agreeing to pay PG&E for all costs PG&E incurs for your project in the event that your project is cancelled, even if the costs PG&E incurs are more than this advance”

Long story short, my project is an application for 100Amp service for my ADU. PG&E said they would need to install Transformer on their Pole for this request. They do not know how much this will cost and it takes 6 months to provide an estimate of the cost.

So I am basically agreeing to pay PG&E amount X that is unknown. Would you write a blank check to Utility company?

Thank you for your input.
Californiastate
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by Californiastate »

I've never heard of this practice. I wouldn't.
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by exodusNH »

VeryBlessedCali wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:15 am Good morning.

Believe it or not, this is Reality for me. PG&E requiring me to sign a Blank Check to them.

“IMPORTANT: By going forward with this project and paying the engineering advance to PG&E you are also agreeing to pay PG&E for all costs PG&E incurs for your project in the event that your project is cancelled, even if the costs PG&E incurs are more than this advance”

Long story short, my project is an application for 100Amp service for my ADU. PG&E said they would need to install Transformer on their Pole for this request. They do not know how much this will cost and it takes 6 months to provide an estimate of the cost.

So I am basically agreeing to pay PG&E amount X that is unknown. Would you write a blank check to Utility company?

Thank you for your input.
I certainly wouldn't! You might try contacting your public utilities commissions and filing a complaint. Having read your other message, it sounds like they're trying to get you to pay for maintenance/upgrades they need to do anyway.
GoldenFinch
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by GoldenFinch »

No. Bad idea.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

GoldenFinch wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:24 am No. Bad idea.
Right?
adamthesmythe
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by adamthesmythe »

No.

I hope you aren't very far along with construction.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

Californiastate wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:17 am I've never heard of this practice. I wouldn't.
Yes I've never seen this before. But I recently found on biggerpockets.com Forum that there are Bay Area folks who did pay up and was slapped by exorbitant PG&E estimate for the same request 100Amp service for ADU. PG&E can be a bully.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

adamthesmythe wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:27 am No.

I hope you aren't very far along with construction.
My construction is complete next week. The City will not give my Final inspection without power to my ADU. We sent this Application to PG&E in June when the City passed our Electrical. Since June, PG&E just strung us along. And then last week, Boom, slapped with this "sign this BLANK CHECK or no power for you"
SubPar
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by SubPar »

Any time we have utility work happening on our development projects, a formal scope-of-work & estimate is provided by the utility company (or their subcontractor) prior to commencement. We've never had a utility company come back for more money (to my knowledge, at least) after the work is completed, but I have had a City absolutely demolish their estimated cost for certain infrastructure work and send us a big bill.

Based on what you wrote, I would not sign that, no.
SubPar
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by SubPar »

(deleted - duplicate)
fortunefavored
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by fortunefavored »

PG&E is out of control - make sure you file a CPUC complaint and a letter to your state representative and state senator.

Their management is angry they are not getting blank checks after all their screw ups, so they are taking it out on customers in 100s of little ways.

You'll likely have no choice, since they are thugs. I mean, do you want power or not? But at least make it real painful.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

fortunefavored wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:40 am PG&E is out of control - make sure you file a CPUC complaint and a letter to your state representative and state senator.

Their management is angry they are not getting blank checks after all their screw ups, so they are taking it out on customers in 100s of little ways.

You'll likely have no choice, since they are thugs. I mean, do you want power or not? But at least make it real painful.

You are correct fortunefavored. Spot on. I will take the CPUC route and yes letter to my elected officials. Thanks fortunefavored.
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VeryBlessedCali
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by VeryBlessedCali »

SubPar wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:37 am Any time we have utility work happening on our development projects, a formal scope-of-work & estimate is provided by the utility company (or their subcontractor) prior to commencement. We've never had a utility company come back for more money (to my knowledge, at least) after the work is completed, but I have had a City absolutely demolish their estimated cost for certain infrastructure work and send us a big bill.

Based on what you wrote, I would not sign that, no.
Thank you for your input SubPar.
sport
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by sport »

Perhaps you can meet their requirements by leaving the amount blank, but writing on the check "NOT TO EXCEED $XXXX".
If you can find a number for XXXX that you can live with, that might solve the impasse.
drk
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by drk »

sport wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:46 am Perhaps you can meet their requirements by leaving the amount blank, but writing on the check "NOT TO EXCEED $XXXX".
If you can find a number for XXXX that you can live with, that might solve the impasse.
It's not literally a blank check. OP was being dramatic. The company provided a disclaimer that, in the event of cancellation, the customer's obligation to pay would not be limited to the advance paid if costs exceed that amount.
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bugleheadd
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by bugleheadd »

tell them to send you a bill, you dont want your account overdrawn and hit with penalties.
sailaway
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by sailaway »

drk wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:54 am
sport wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:46 am Perhaps you can meet their requirements by leaving the amount blank, but writing on the check "NOT TO EXCEED $XXXX".
If you can find a number for XXXX that you can live with, that might solve the impasse.
It's not literally a blank check. OP was being dramatic. The company provided a disclaimer that, in the event of cancellation, the customer's obligation to pay would not be limited to the advance paid if costs exceed that amount.
Yeah, it seems like the vast majority of responders missed this. Wasn't there similar wording in other contracts for the construction project?
PVW
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by PVW »

You're agreeing to pay them for the work they do. You're not writing them a blank check (literal nor figurative). Send them the engineering advance and wait for the bid. If you don't like it, cancel the job and they will refund the unused portion of your engineering advance. If something is not right with the bid (e.g., they are charging you for something they shouldn't), you can take it up with the public utility commission.
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GerryL
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Re: Would you sign a BLANK CHECK payable to your Utility Company?

Post by GerryL »

We do this (agree to pay an unknown amount) every time we go into the hospital or even submit to an out-patient procedure. It's in the paperwork you have to sign during intake: "I agree to pay any amount my insurance declines to cover." Galling.
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by LadyGeek »

VeryBlessedCali - In order to provide appropriate advice, it's best to keep all the information in one spot. I merged your update back into the original thread. If you have any questions, ask them here.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)
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suemarkp
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Re: Californians...How much is SOLAR? Your advice needed. Thank You.

Post by suemarkp »

VeryBlessedCali wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:39 am Upon research, every 3rd house on my street has a Transformer on their Pole. The Pole servicing my house is the only pole on the street without a Transformer. So the work PG&E needs to do is Install Transformer, not Upgrade Transformer ,because the Transformer on my pole is non-existent.
I would be over the moon happy if they can do the Transformer work the same speed as yours, within a month or so. When I inquired about this, they said just the Estimate for the cost is 6 months and they don’t know when they can work on it.
You are being fed from a transformer somewhere -- the voltage on the power lines is thousands of volts, it needs to be stepped down to 120/240V to feed your house and that's what the transformer does. Is the power coming into your house from an overhead drop or underground? If it is underground, it may be popping up one of your neighbors poles to use that transformer. Overhead is easy -- just follow the wires to see where they go.

It could be their practice is no more than 3 houses per transformer (and constrained by wiring issues such as conduit fill if the houses are fed underground). In the house where I had the 50 KVA transformer installed, that pole looked kind of banana like from the weight of that heavy transformer. Maybe they don't want any transformer that large on a pole. If the neighboring transformers are all 37.5 KVA, they probably don't want to go larger.

So their desire to put a new transformer on a pole for this service drop seems possibly reasonable. Lesson learned is to make sure to contact your utility providers well in advance of starting a project. I just modified my power service (did not increase service, just moved it), and I wanted to know the costs and time flows in order to do that. I called a year ago to find those answers and when I just did this a month ago they had a record of my conversation from the year prior, so they kind of knew what I was planning to do.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
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