Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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AnnetteLouisan
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Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

I know we’re all about thrift and prudence here, but I overdid it.

I’m 54, single F, no dependents, earn 290, have a net worth of $1.8 million, no debt and live like a college student in a studio apartment that I own outright in a very tony area of a VHCOL high tax metropolis (Manhattan). I was busy working but the decades passed and here I am.

Well, the city changed a lot for the worse lately (crime, boarded up businesses, higher taxes), my building and neighborhood changed for the worse (rundown, pests), I tried to have that fixed 3x by professionals but its not fixed. I’m too old to keep living like this and I don’t have to. Plus, I expect to spend a lot more time at home than I did in my 20s-40s.

Tony suburban life looks appealing from a distance but I have no experience living like that except in college. A larger nice apartment might work although prices are nuts in my city - Id be looking at 5-10 more in housing expense than I have now, depending on whether I rent or buy (Id prefer to rent honesty).

Anyone have any suggestions:
1. what can I afford that would be a better quality of life?
2. what neighborhoods or suburbs might be good?
3. should I keep my place empty, rent it out or sell?
4. other ways to be more safe / comfortable / healthy?

Thank you in advance.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by sailaway »

So you are 54 and earning $290k, living like a college student and only have $1.8M saved? That implies that you are spending quite a bit somewhere.

To decide how much you can afford, you really need to look at your retirement goals. You are likely within a decade of retirement, so what does your budget look like? Do you have a pension pending? How much of your costs will be covered by SS?
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:36 pm So you are 54 and earning $290k, living like a college student and only have $1.8M saved? That implies that you are spending quite a bit somewhere.

To decide how much you can afford, you really need to look at your retirement goals. You are likely within a decade of retirement, so what does your budget look like? Do you have a pension pending? How much of your costs will be covered by SS?
I spend around $45k a year (I can PM you specifics if you want) plus $76k in taxes. I’ll have a small pension and social security totaling around $60k, specific numbers to come from my HR dept next week). I didn’t start the 401k until my mid 40s. and I spent too much in my 30s, but always saved at least 1/3.

I appreciate your candor - until this forum I thought I was doing well! The reality check is appreciated!
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by Bogle7 »

How much are you putting into retirement savings each year?
How much would your apartment sell for?
Can you work in another city?
What big city amenities are must haves for you? For example: could you live some place where all the restaurants close at 9:30 PM?
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Bogle7 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:46 pm How much are you putting into retirement savings each year?
How much would your apartment sell for?
Can you work in another city?
What big city amenities are must haves for you?
26k into 401k every year
started IRA this year w 7K
opened ibond account this year w 10k
I always saved at least 35 percent of my net salary
saving a total of $110,000 each year including matching
apt would sell for 575k
waiting for job to say if I can WFH
I don’t need big city amenities - just quiet, safety, cleanliness, reliable walmart delivery and good medical. was thinking Long Island or Connecticut. I don’t care when restaurants close although 9:30 sounds.... ok I can handle that but... sounds odd.

I’m sort of joking but why would they close at 9:30?????
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by CurlyDave »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 pm
...I’m sort of joking but why would they close at 9:30?????
Very, very few customers after that hour.

The 'burbs do not run on a 24 hour schedule like the city.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

CurlyDave wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:14 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 pm
...I’m sort of joking but why would they close at 9:30?????
Very, very few customers after that hour.

The 'burbs do not run on a 24 hour schedule like the city.
I have no idea what I’m in for and I have to just get a nicer place here in town, don’t I? and pray things get better.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by SantaClaraSurfer »

We rent in a VHCOL area.

I'd at least consider it given your unknowns. You could even try two different options:

1. Try out a new area (ex. suburbs you mention)

2. Try out what it feels like to access modern amenities in a newer building near you

If you add up all the small amenities in a modern apartment building/complex they can total up to make a bigger impact than you might think.

The crucial number is not versus how much you pay now, imo, but what percentage your housing costs would add up to out of your total gross income.

If the rent on someplace you might really like adds up to a percentage of your gross income that works for you, then you've discovered an option that's at least worth considering.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

SantaClaraSurfer wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:21 pm We rent in a VHCOL area.

I'd at least consider it given your unknowns. You could even try two different options:

1. Try out a new area (ex. suburbs you mention)

2. Try out what it feels like to access modern amenities in a newer building near you

If you add up all the small amenities in a modern apartment building/complex they can total up to make a bigger impact than you might think.

The crucial number is not versus how much you pay now, imo, but what percentage your housing costs would add up to out of your total gross income.

If the rent on someplace you might really like adds up to a percentage of your gross income that works for you, then you've discovered an option that's at least worth considering.
I like your idea of testing things out. Maybe airbnb. Decent rentals here are $5-7,000 month. Ive been looking. I could technically afford it but seems quite wasteful. The most I ever paid in rent was $2750 and my current co-op maintenance is $1200. But I wasn’t making 290 then either.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by randomguy »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:41 pm
sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:36 pm So you are 54 and earning $290k, living like a college student and only have $1.8M saved? That implies that you are spending quite a bit somewhere.

To decide how much you can afford, you really need to look at your retirement goals. You are likely within a decade of retirement, so what does your budget look like? Do you have a pension pending? How much of your costs will be covered by SS?
I spend around $45k a year (I can PM you specifics if you want) plus $76k in taxes. I’ll have a small pension and social security totaling around $60k, specific numbers to come from my HR dept next week). I didn’t start the 401k until my mid 40s. and I spent too much in my 30s, but always saved at least 1/3.

I appreciate your candor - until this forum I thought I was doing well! The reality check is appreciated!
If you have been saving 50k/year for the past 20 years in a 50/50 fund, you would have 3.7m dollars today which is why having 1.8m seems low. Maybe the salary is a recent ramp up. Maybe you didn't start working til you were 30 and had 300k of debt. Maybe you had low performing investments. And so on. At this point you have savings to support ~70k/year of spending + pension + SS so depending on your future working plans (retire at 55 or 65), that might limit how much you want to inflate your lifestyle.

What I would recommend is doing a 3-6 month rental on where every you want to live to see how you like it. It is easy to focus on the stuff you hate about your current place but you might decide you prefer it to the downsides of your new location. And the tax situation can get messy if you end up having to go into the NYC office regularly.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by rgs92 »

I would consider moving to Kennedy House in Forest Hills or North Shore Towers in Glen Oaks.
Another very nice place to live is in Morristown, NJ; there are some very nice buildings there and it is a great place to live.

I'm not sure if it's OK to put a link to real estate listing, but there are nice buildings on Park Place and also in the (former) Vail Mansion (an especially nice place if you can afford it at about a million dollars more or less for a nice condo).

Morristown is a place that I would say a New Yorker would feel very comfortable. And you could walk to the train (or take a short drive to the train) and ride directly into the city without changing trains. Morristown is not cheap though.
Last edited by rgs92 on Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:55 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

randomguy wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:30 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:41 pm
sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:36 pm So you are 54 and earning $290k, living like a college student and only have $1.8M saved? That implies that you are spending quite a bit somewhere.

To decide how much you can afford, you really need to look at your retirement goals. You are likely within a decade of retirement, so what does your budget look like? Do you have a pension pending? How much of your costs will be covered by SS?
I spend around $45k a year (I can PM you specifics if you want) plus $76k in taxes. I’ll have a small pension and social security totaling around $60k, specific numbers to come from my HR dept next week). I didn’t start the 401k until my mid 40s. and I spent too much in my 30s, but always saved at least 1/3.

I appreciate your candor - until this forum I thought I was doing well! The reality check is appreciated!
If you have been saving 50k/year for the past 20 years in a 50/50 fund, you would have 3.7m dollars today which is why having 1.8m seems low. Maybe the salary is a recent ramp up. Maybe you didn't start working til you were 30 and had 300k of debt. Maybe you had low performing investments. And so on. At this point you have savings to support ~70k/year of spending + pension + SS so depending on your future working plans (retire at 55 or 65), that might limit how much you want to inflate your lifestyle.

What I would recommend is doing a 3-6 month rental on where every you want to live to see how you like it. It is easy to focus on the stuff you hate about your current place but you might decide you prefer it to the downsides of your new location. And the tax situation can get messy if you end up having to go into the NYC office regularly.
Ive been working FT for 30 years, starting at 65k and gradually increasing (88, 105, 155, 190, 210, are some of the numbers I remember). I didn’t start investing until 2010 and Im still only 10 percent in equities. Yeah, I screwed up. I was getting 5-7 percent in banks. I was afraid of losing money in investments. Prior employers didn’t match the 401k.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by anon_investor »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:26 pm
SantaClaraSurfer wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:21 pm We rent in a VHCOL area.

I'd at least consider it given your unknowns. You could even try two different options:

1. Try out a new area (ex. suburbs you mention)

2. Try out what it feels like to access modern amenities in a newer building near you

If you add up all the small amenities in a modern apartment building/complex they can total up to make a bigger impact than you might think.

The crucial number is not versus how much you pay now, imo, but what percentage your housing costs would add up to out of your total gross income.

If the rent on someplace you might really like adds up to a percentage of your gross income that works for you, then you've discovered an option that's at least worth considering.
I like your idea of testing things out. Maybe airbnb. Decent rentals here are $5-7,000 month. Ive been looking. I could technically afford it but seems quite wasteful. The most I ever paid in rent was $2750 and my current co-op maintenance is $1200. But I wasn’t making 290 then either.
You don't have to live in Manhattan, you can probably find a decent co-op in Queens.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by David Jay »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:36 pmI didn’t start investing until 2010 and Im still only 10 percent in equities.
You really need to be at least 30% equities in today's low interest rate climate, just to keep up with inflation.

Look at it this way: If the market drops, say, 25% (like it did very briefly in March of 2020), your portfolio with 30% equities would only be down 7.5%. Your 70% in fixed income smooths the ride for you.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

David Jay wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:36 pmI didn’t start investing until 2010 and Im still only 10 percent in equities.
You really need to be at least 30% equities in today's low interest rate climate, just to keep up with inflation.

Look at it this way: If the market drops, say, 25% (like it did very briefly in March of 2020), your portfolio with 30% equities would only be down 7.5%. Your 70% in fixed income smooths the ride for you.
Yes- I have another detailed post on that you might like called Where Do I Go From Here under Personal Investments. Folks convinced me and I’m in the process of ramping up equities to 30 percent of AA.

I should have discovered this site a long time ago. I actually thought I was doing great! 😂
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Here's the link: Where Do I Go From Here

This discussion is a mix of personal finance questions (can I afford it) and where to live. Let's leave the thread in the Personal Consumer Issues forum.
rgs92 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:33 pm I would consider moving to Kennedy House in Forest Hills or North Shore Towers in Glen Oaks.
Another very nice place to live is in Morristown, NJ; there are some very nice buildings there and it is a great place to live.
I'm not sure if it's OK to put a link to real estate listing, but there are nice buildings on Park Place and also in the (former) Vail Mansion.
I had family who used to live in Morristown NJ. It's OK as long as you stay away from Route 10. Also,driving back to Philly during the evening was "frustrating" during the work week. Consider the traffic an extension of NYC. (I'm being polite here.)

I would avoid posting links to real estate because the OP may decide to live there (or close to there) and it would then become personally identifiable information.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by ElJefeDelQueso »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:41 pm
sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:36 pm So you are 54 and earning $290k, living like a college student and only have $1.8M saved? That implies that you are spending quite a bit somewhere.

To decide how much you can afford, you really need to look at your retirement goals. You are likely within a decade of retirement, so what does your budget look like? Do you have a pension pending? How much of your costs will be covered by SS?
I spend around $45k a year (I can PM you specifics if you want) plus $76k in taxes. I’ll have a small pension and social security totaling around $60k, specific numbers to come from my HR dept next week). I didn’t start the 401k until my mid 40s. and I spent too much in my 30s, but always saved at least 1/3.

I appreciate your candor - until this forum I thought I was doing well! The reality check is appreciated!
At less than 3% withdrawal rate not counting pension and future SS, you could retire (or semiretire). Is that a QOL upgrade?

Edit: If you can do something about the taxes (property vs income).
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by Wannaretireearly »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:51 pm
David Jay wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:36 pmI didn’t start investing until 2010 and Im still only 10 percent in equities.
You really need to be at least 30% equities in today's low interest rate climate, just to keep up with inflation.

Look at it this way: If the market drops, say, 25% (like it did very briefly in March of 2020), your portfolio with 30% equities would only be down 7.5%. Your 70% in fixed income smooths the ride for you.
Yes- I have another detailed post on that you might like called Where Do I Go From Here under Personal Investments. Folks convinced me and I’m in the process of ramping up equities to 30 percent of AA.

I should have discovered this site a long time ago. I actually thought I was doing great! 😂
You're doing fine. This site will boost/improve you by 20 to 30% in efficiency. It's like a free gym class for your finances. Take it all in and then ask again before making changes. These BH's are good! BTW, I'd be tempted to stay in Manhatten where your used to the surroundings & fun. It'll all come back. I loved NY city in 2019, so much safe, family fun. It'll come back...
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:58 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:51 pm
David Jay wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:36 pmI didn’t start investing until 2010 and Im still only 10 percent in equities.
You really need to be at least 30% equities in today's low interest rate climate, just to keep up with inflation.

Look at it this way: If the market drops, say, 25% (like it did very briefly in March of 2020), your portfolio with 30% equities would only be down 7.5%. Your 70% in fixed income smooths the ride for you.
Yes- I have another detailed post on that you might like called Where Do I Go From Here under Personal Investments. Folks convinced me and I’m in the process of ramping up equities to 30 percent of AA.

I should have discovered this site a long time ago. I actually thought I was doing great! 😂
You're doing fine. This site will boost/improve you by 20 to 30% in efficiency. It's like a free gym class for your finances. Take it all in and then ask again before making changes. These BH's are good! BTW, I'd be tempted to stay in Manhatten where your used to the surroundings & fun. It'll all come back. I loved NY city in 2019, so much safe, family fun. It'll come back...
Thanks! I’ve been so proud of my 1.8 and no debt! I’m older so it seems like more to me. I thought I was fairly smart surviving a lot of downturns etc. But yes I am VERY glad I found this amazing, smart and successful, kind group!
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

ElJefeDelQueso wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:55 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:41 pm
sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:36 pm So you are 54 and earning $290k, living like a college student and only have $1.8M saved? That implies that you are spending quite a bit somewhere.

To decide how much you can afford, you really need to look at your retirement goals. You are likely within a decade of retirement, so what does your budget look like? Do you have a pension pending? How much of your costs will be covered by SS?
I spend around $45k a year (I can PM you specifics if you want) plus $76k in taxes. I’ll have a small pension and social security totaling around $60k, specific numbers to come from my HR dept next week). I didn’t start the 401k until my mid 40s. and I spent too much in my 30s, but always saved at least 1/3.

I appreciate your candor - until this forum I thought I was doing well! The reality check is appreciated!
At less than 3% withdrawal rate not counting pension and future SS, you could retire (or semiretire). Is that a QOL upgrade?

Edit: If you can do something about the taxes (property vs income).
I’ve been told a number of times by various people that I could retire now. It is intriguing, and I should have specific info on my pension and ss numbers next week. I like what I do, and I like being employed, but getting out of here and retiring early has some appeal too, I admit. I tend to believe that I need to work until at least 57/58 to be on the safe side. but who knows?
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

rgs92 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:33 pm I would consider moving to Kennedy House in Forest Hills or North Shore Towers in Glen Oaks.
Another very nice place to live is in Morristown, NJ; there are some very nice buildings there and it is a great place to live.

I'm not sure if it's OK to put a link to real estate listing, but there are nice buildings on Park Place and also in the (former) Vail Mansion (an especially nice place if you can afford it at about a million dollars more or less for a nice condo).

Morristown is a place that I would say a New Yorker would feel very comfortable. And you could walk to the train (or take a short drive to the train) and ride directly into the city without changing trains. Morristown is not cheap though.
Thank you for these suggestions! I appreciate it.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by sailaway »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:46 pm How much are you putting into retirement savings each year?
How much would your apartment sell for?
Can you work in another city?
What big city amenities are must haves for you?
26k into 401k every year
started IRA this year w 7K
opened ibond account this year w 10k
I always saved at least 35 percent of my net salary
saving a total of $110,000 each year including matching


I’m sort of joking but why would they close at 9:30?????
Something isn't adding up. Are you invested in index funds or mostly bonds? Did you start your career late? You don't have to answer these questions for us, but you need to make sure you are being honest about your expenses, averaged over time. The main determinants of "doing great" are your savings, your spending and your anticipated income. If your savings and spending don't seem to add up, you could have an issue later on.

1.8M is great, no question about that! The question is how much can you inflate your current lifestyle and still thrive for the long term.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:36 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:46 pm How much are you putting into retirement savings each year?
How much would your apartment sell for?
Can you work in another city?
What big city amenities are must haves for you?
26k into 401k every year
started IRA this year w 7K
opened ibond account this year w 10k
I always saved at least 35 percent of my net salary
saving a total of $110,000 each year including matching


I’m sort of joking but why would they close at 9:30?????
Something isn't adding up. Are you invested in index funds or mostly bonds? Did you start your career late? You don't have to answer these questions for us, but you need to make sure you are being honest about your expenses, averaged over time. The main determinants of "doing great" are your savings, your spending and your anticipated income. If your savings and spending don't seem to add up, you could have an issue later on.

1.8M is great, no question about that! The question is how much can you inflate your current lifestyle and still thrive for the long term.
NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:16 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by beyou »

I worked in Midtown too, pre-pandemic.

If you want urban, look into Hoboken or Riverside Bronx.
If you want suburban, Long Island has the best commuter train among the tri-state burbs. Long Island isn’t cheap but cheaper than Manhattan. Look at places near Westbury, Mineola, Hicksville, Great Neck stations. Long Beach for ocean front with same commuter train, if that seems appealing to you.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by Kenkat »

1. You are doing great, this board is just full of a lot of really wealthy people - it can be a little intimidating
2. Restaurants close at 9:30 in the suburbs because that is when the sidewalks are rolled up every night
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Kenkat wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:01 pm 1. You are doing great, this board is just full of a lot of really wealthy people - it can be a little intimidating
2. Restaurants close at 9:30 in the suburbs because that is when the sidewalks are rolled up every night
It’s okay ... best way to improve is to practice with the A team. Growth isn’t comfortable but its better than stagnating. 😃
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by jabberwockOG »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:05 pm
Kenkat wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:01 pm 1. You are doing great, this board is just full of a lot of really wealthy people - it can be a little intimidating
2. Restaurants close at 9:30 in the suburbs because that is when the sidewalks are rolled up every night
It’s okay ... best way to improve is to practice with the A team. Growth isn’t comfortable but its better than stagnating. 😃
Asset size requirements for attaining retirement security is entirely contextual to actual expenses and cost of living. $1.8 M in assets for a person in their late 50's would be a large amount of capital in a LCOL area. But 1.8 M (conservatively invested) in a HCOL area, in combination with high taxes, is likely not going to provide adequate income for long term security.

Figure out a way to accumulate a lot more capital or plan on moving to a LCOL area.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

jabberwockOG wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:26 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:05 pm
Kenkat wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:01 pm 1. You are doing great, this board is just full of a lot of really wealthy people - it can be a little intimidating
2. Restaurants close at 9:30 in the suburbs because that is when the sidewalks are rolled up every night
It’s okay ... best way to improve is to practice with the A team. Growth isn’t comfortable but its better than stagnating. 😃
Asset size requirements for attaining retirement security is entirely contextual to actual expenses and cost of living. $1.8 M in assets for a person in their late 50's would be a large amount of capital in a LCOL area. But 1.8 M (conservatively invested) in a HCOL area, in combination with high taxes, is likely not going to provide adequate income for long term security.
You are right. I need to work longer, get more equity exposure and be realistic.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by an_asker »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:47 pm
sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:36 pm [...]
Something isn't adding up. Are you invested in index funds or mostly bonds? Did you start your career late? You don't have to answer these questions for us, but you need to make sure you are being honest about your expenses, averaged over time. The main determinants of "doing great" are your savings, your spending and your anticipated income. If your savings and spending don't seem to add up, you could have an issue later on.

1.8M is great, no question about that! The question is how much can you inflate your current lifestyle and still thrive for the long term.
NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
No use crying over spilt milk - been there done that lol!

The main fact that stands out in your OP was salary of $290k vs savings of $1.8M.

On its own, the latter is great. But juxtaposed against that salary, it appears inadequate because typically, a multiple (which varies by age) of your current salary is used to get at the number that most folks would estimate to be an adequate net worth.

But given that you have a paid for house and $60k/year in retirement, you should do great in retirement!
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

an_asker wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:35 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:47 pm
sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:36 pm [...]
Something isn't adding up. Are you invested in index funds or mostly bonds? Did you start your career late? You don't have to answer these questions for us, but you need to make sure you are being honest about your expenses, averaged over time. The main determinants of "doing great" are your savings, your spending and your anticipated income. If your savings and spending don't seem to add up, you could have an issue later on.

1.8M is great, no question about that! The question is how much can you inflate your current lifestyle and still thrive for the long term.
NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
No use crying over spilt milk - been there done that lol!

The main fact that stands out in your OP was salary of $290k vs savings of $1.8M.

On its own, the latter is great. But juxtaposed against that salary, it appears inadequate because typically, a multiple (which varies by age) of your current salary is used to get at the number that most folks would estimate to be an adequate net worth.

But given that you have a paid for house and $60k/year in retirement, you should do great in retirement!
Thank you. That salary has only been for about the past 5 years. I never spent more than 70k a year in my life, not counting taxes. And I’m down to 38k now in spending plus $76k in taxes.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by an_asker »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:40 pm [...]
Thank you. That salary has only been for about the past 5 years. I never spent more than 70k a year in my life, not counting taxes. And I’m down to 38k now in spending plus $76k in taxes.
Well, too much saving isn't good either - especially as I see you don't have kids.

In fact, upon further review, I think you've already saved more than you might ever spend - unless of course you choose to remain in a VHCOL area for the remainder of your life.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by Marseille07 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:47 pm NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
You are doing great. Tbh some posters' standard is unreasonably high. You don't owe any explanations, keep up the good work!
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by Random Musings »

If taxes are double your spend, sounds like you are being held as a financial hostage. There are many other places to live where you will have more control over your money. However, from your comments, it seems that you are reluctant for a major change of scenery.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Random Musings wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:39 pm If taxes are double your spend, sounds like you are being held as a financial hostage. There are many other places to live where you will have more control over your money. However, from your comments, it seems that you are reluctant for a major change of scenery.

RM
Ive been to many US states and abroad and in quite a few believe me I checked out the listings. Very pleasant places to live outside NYC and overseas. I actually have lived elsewhere for school and they have air there too... I’m waiting to hear from my job whether I can go all remote. They are considering it but nothing is sure yet and it may be a while.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by sailaway »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:47 pm NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
You are doing great. Tbh some posters' standard is unreasonably high. You don't owe any explanations, keep up the good work!
No one said she needed to have more: we said the numbers weren't adding up and OP needs to take a close look to answer their questions about how much they can increase their lifestyle by.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

sailaway wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:57 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:47 pm NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
You are doing great. Tbh some posters' standard is unreasonably high. You don't owe any explanations, keep up the good work!
No one said she needed to have more: we said the numbers weren't adding up and OP needs to take a close look to answer their questions about how much they can increase their lifestyle by.
No offense taken - thank you both. I appreciate candor! I have not been a good investor and I’m here precisely to learn and improve. This is an awesome forum!
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by H-Town »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:22 pm Anyone have any suggestions:
1. what can I afford that would be a better quality of life?
2. what neighborhoods or suburbs might be good?
3. should I keep my place empty, rent it out or sell?
4. other ways to be more safe / comfortable / healthy?

Thank you in advance.
I think you're currently in good shape financially. As long as you continue to max out 401k, back door Roth IRA, HSA (if applicable), you should be in good shape for retirement. The rest, you can spend on increasing quality of life.

I don't live in NYC, but I visited a few times. I wouldn't want to leave the city if I were you. There are so many things in the city that you'd miss if you move out to the suburb.

Maybe talk to a couple of realtors? Ask around if you can find any words of mouth referrals for good realtor. Give them your price range and they'll work for to find places for you to tour.

I'd rent too. I think the rent would be reasonable because of the pandemic.
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

H-Town wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:18 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:22 pm Anyone have any suggestions:
1. what can I afford that would be a better quality of life?
2. what neighborhoods or suburbs might be good?
3. should I keep my place empty, rent it out or sell?
4. other ways to be more safe / comfortable / healthy?

Thank you in advance.
I think you're currently in good shape financially. As long as you continue to max out 401k, back door Roth IRA, HSA (if applicable), you should be in good shape for retirement. The rest, you can spend on increasing quality of life.

I don't live in NYC, but I visited a few times. I wouldn't want to leave the city if I were you. There are so many things in the city that you'd miss if you move out to the suburb.

Maybe talk to a couple of realtors? Ask around if you can find any words of mouth referrals for good realtor. Give them your price range and they'll work for to find places for you to tour.

I'd rent too. I think the rent would be reasonable because of the pandemic.
Thanks- once I get my actual pension and ss numbers for different retirement ages I will update my initial mega detailed post called Where Do I go From Here, throw it to the BH hounds for review and get to stepping! (ie, take some action)
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by CurlyDave »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:23 pm
...Thanks- once I get my actual pension and ss numbers for different retirement ages I will update my initial mega detailed post called Where Do I go From Here, throw it to the hounds and get to stepping!
If you do nothing else, read this paper https://www.financialplanningassociatio ... -draw-line which is referred to as the "Updated Trinity Study" in many places and it is linked in the Wiki.

Don't skim it, pore over it, read it again and again, read every word, read the tables.

The bottom line is that a 50-50 asset allocation is the minimum percentage of stocks one should have, and with today's interest rates 75-25 may be even better.

Don't worry about anything in the past, you have done extremely well. Now you can take your investing to the next level.
Answering a question is easy -- asking the right question is the hard part.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by SantaClaraSurfer »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:26 pm I like your idea of testing things out. Maybe airbnb. Decent rentals here are $5-7,000 month. Ive been looking. I could technically afford it but seems quite wasteful. The most I ever paid in rent was $2750 and my current co-op maintenance is $1200. But I wasn’t making 290 then either.
The psychology of this will vary from person to person, so take this worth a grain of salt. VHCOL areas, like Manhattan, make these topics very hard to talk about in a national price context, but the basic principal is the pretty much the same for what follows.

My approach is to set a baseline for a minimally acceptable rental.

To use your example, if you think that decent rentals in Manhattan are "$5,000-$7,000 per month," you might find that a baseline rental in the current market that meets your needs but not your goals comes in around $3,800-$4,400 per month.

In that case, the net spend to rent a place that meets your health and lifestyle goals is a $1,800-$2,600 per month net difference.

If you average that to $2,100 and put it in annual terms, that's 12 x $2,100 as your net stretch cost. Basically, it will cost you $25,200 extra per year to make the big change you want and get the really great place.

In the end, your overall housing cost might be $74,400 per year, or 25.6% of your stated annual gross income, but unless you're absolutely committed to staying in place, about $49,000 of that housing cost is hard baked in, in the form of your minimally acceptable rental in your market.

If you think about it as a net cost, that you are paying $25,000 extra per year to get the great new place that will make your life better and healthier, the price comes into better focus. You can compare the opportunity cost to what you might do with those funds, and budget out your spend on the balance, as well.

Personally, while our price range was lower than yours, we found, after doing a fair bit of market research and viewings, that the improvements in quality of housing ramp up significantly for each 5% increment per month over the baseline. It's guaranteed that landlords know these numbers for their markets; it pays to consider them when renting and researching where you choose to live.
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by Talfred »

Anyone have any suggestions:
1. what can I afford that would be a better quality of life?
2. what neighborhoods or suburbs might be good?
3. should I keep my place empty, rent it out or sell?
4. other ways to be more safe / comfortable / healthy?
My situation was signicantly similar a year ago and I would like to weigh in on your question #2.

I grew up in the suburbs, but with a lot of exposure to city life. As an adult I moved to the city and until last year had been in cities (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Boston, et al.) for thirty years. With the pandemic, I was able to WFH full time, and I decided to move to the suburbs to be near family. Many of the things I loved about city life were unavailable in 2020.

There are many things I like about my new arrangement - LCOL, having a car for the first time since 1992, being near family, etc., but I severely underestimated how much I would miss city life. After a year in the suburbs, I am actively looking to get back to HCOL city living. Financially, it would be a large sacrifice, but I'm really a fish out of water here. Of course your experience may differ, but if I were you I'd look towards a transition stage, such as renting in slightly lower COL areas nearby that still have the city structure (e.g., Queens, Hoboken, Jersey City). Good luck!
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by vfinx »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:47 pm NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
You are doing great. Tbh some posters' standard is unreasonably high. You don't owe any explanations, keep up the good work!
Agreed, your doing great, and I would make sure to keep your specific history and goals in mind, as you’ll get strong opinions here that could intrude into those. As the thread progresses, you’ll get some great advice I’m sure, but make sure you don’t start fixing something that isn’t broken, or introduce an unnecessary element of worry into your life.

P.S. the wiki is also a great read
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Re: Sensible, Prudent Quality of Life Upgrade at 50+

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

vfinx wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:58 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:47 pm NOT ANY EXCUSE BUT... The deficit is because -although I saved a lot since age 23 - I straight up didn’t invest at all during my 20s and 30s, but banked it instead in 5 year CDs at 5-7 percent - see my related link titled Where Do I Go From Here.

Now I’m in index funds, mostly bonds, in my 401k. Parents had a Depression era mentality about frugality and debt. I’m first generation American on one side, and neither parent was a professional or in the market, having been conned by a small time broker in the past. I was leery of the 401k and my employer at the time didn’t match. I was very risk averse and had mostly seen people fail, not win, in the markets. I had about 60k of student loans (grad and undergrad) which I paid off. No $ from parents in 35 years. But they did very well, which made me feel wealthier than I was.

I spent too much in my 20s and 30s and rented for 3 decades in a VHCOL high tax area w no deductions, and I was too leery of debt to get a mortgage, so I never benefitted from appreciating real estate. Never did the IRA until this year because I didn’t qualify for tax deductible contributions. I worked for a major brokerage firm that later went bust (as many did). I read a ton of books on personal finance but I found this site too late. I definitely spent too much in my 20s and 30s but always saved at least 30 percent of my net and avoided debt after my student loans, so I thought I was doing ok.

The irony is until today I thought I was doing great!! :oops:

BUT - It’s okay. I’m going to do better from here on in. Ive been on here about a week and 🤯🤯🤯
You are doing great. Tbh some posters' standard is unreasonably high. You don't owe any explanations, keep up the good work!
Agreed, your doing great, and I would make sure to keep your specific history and goals in mind, as you’ll get strong opinions here that could intrude into those. As the thread progresses, you’ll get some great advice I’m sure, but make sure you don’t start fixing something that isn’t broken, or introduce an unnecessary element of worry into your life.

P.S. the wiki is also a great read
Care to elaborate? You’re referring to the risk of a correction in equities, right, and how I will react to that, I assume? Very fair comment if I understand you correctly.
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