Possible iPhone 13 deal?

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jfave33
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by jfave33 »

IN reply to the OP. Yes sure if you can buy a phone for $250 and get $700 back that is great. The only thing is whether you need the monthly plan attached to it. Postpaid plans are considerably more expensive and ATT gives prepaid and mvnos the same priority level that most att postpaid plans
have. So there really is no reason to pay more.

Redpocket gives you $30 off an iphone 13 preorder as well as 6 months unlimited free (50gb high speed). That is $330 off and nearly as much as the att postpaid offer. And I bet redpocket rates are lower than what you pay with att postpaid. And no hassle buying a used phone that may be junk, stolen, blacklisted, water damaged etc.

Att prepaid has some decent deals. As well as redpocket, blackwireless (which is also a redpocket brand), straight talk att, freeup mobile etc. Consumer cellular can be suitable. Lots to choose from.
UALflyer
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by UALflyer »

jfave33 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:37 pm ATT gives prepaid and mvnos the same priority level that most att postpaid plans
have.
That's incorrect. As I previously mentioned, mobile carriers handle priority through a mechanism called Quality of Service Class Identifier or QCI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QoS_Class_Identifier). So, for instance, on the AT&T network, FirstNet (used by first responders, etc...) is QCI 6, business performance and consumer elite postpaid plans are QCI 7... MVNO is QCI 9 (there is such a thing as MVNO limited data plans that have "premium data" or "high speed data" that get QCI 8 for that data bucket).

AT&T has had a few lower priced unlimited postpaid plans without prioritized data, which is something that is clearly disclosed (so, the AT&T Starter plan is such a plan), but the vast majority of its unlimited postpaid plans come with "premium data" (AT&T's term for data buckets at higher QCI's). When you see a description on the AT&T website that says that after the first 22gb/line/month, 50gb/line/month or 100gb/line/month (these are the most common data buckets) "AT&T may temporarily slow data speeds if the network is busy," it is saying that if you exceed the higher QCI bucket for the month, the system will lower that line's QCI for the rest of the month.
Blue456
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by Blue456 »

Pretty good deal for us. We had iPhone X and 11 pro max, for $15 a month we upgraded to brand new phones. We were already on unlimited plans in the first place so we didn’t have to change anything to get the deal.
EnjoyIt
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by EnjoyIt »

sureshoe wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:33 am
cacophony wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:46 pm
sureshoe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:35 pm As a random note, I see so many people talking about how they use old phones, etc. If you're running a 4-6 year old phone, bless you. However, if you run apps, take pictures, etc., that's a stinker.
It depends on what phone you're starting with. A good flagship phone these days is probably fine for 4 or more years, but if you're starting with something less capable then you might start to notice significant drawbacks. The motivation to upgrade for me is usually driven by new features/functionality, not lessening performance.
If you had a top of the line phone 4 years ago, you probably don't want "fine" now. The iPhone X came out 4 years ago. It is certainly usable, and nice enough. But an iPhone 13 Pro (or preferably Pro Max) would be a considerable improvement.
Let us ignore the Pro Max for a minute just to keep the size similar. I see very little improvement between the X and the 13. Sure the camera is better, but so what. It doesn't even come close to our Canon mirrorless full frame. Yes, it is faster, but faster does little in regards to just surfing the web, texting and making calls. Yes it has more storage capability, but unless you are storing tons of videos and photos, storage isn't that big of a constraint. Has Wifi 6, so what, our router is still on 5. Battery life, OK, there is definitely improvement especially after what a 4 year old battery life would be but one can replace their current phone battery if they desired and be pretty close.

My point is that for most people a new phone doesn't really buy that much value over an older phone. That being said. When the battery life on my current XS is garbage I will upgrade. I don't want to bother with replacing a battery and willing to spend money to avoid that process.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by CyclingDuo »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:44 am
sureshoe wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:33 am
cacophony wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:46 pm
sureshoe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:35 pm As a random note, I see so many people talking about how they use old phones, etc. If you're running a 4-6 year old phone, bless you. However, if you run apps, take pictures, etc., that's a stinker.
It depends on what phone you're starting with. A good flagship phone these days is probably fine for 4 or more years, but if you're starting with something less capable then you might start to notice significant drawbacks. The motivation to upgrade for me is usually driven by new features/functionality, not lessening performance.
If you had a top of the line phone 4 years ago, you probably don't want "fine" now. The iPhone X came out 4 years ago. It is certainly usable, and nice enough. But an iPhone 13 Pro (or preferably Pro Max) would be a considerable improvement.
Let us ignore the Pro Max for a minute just to keep the size similar. I see very little improvement between the X and the 13. Sure the camera is better, but so what. It doesn't even come close to our Canon mirrorless full frame. Yes, it is faster, but faster does little in regards to just surfing the web, texting and making calls. Yes it has more storage capability, but unless you are storing tons of videos and photos, storage isn't that big of a constraint. Has Wifi 6, so what, our router is still on 5. Battery life, OK, there is definitely improvement especially after what a 4 year old battery life would be but one can replace their current phone battery if they desired and be pretty close.

My point is that for most people a new phone doesn't really buy that much value over an older phone. That being said. When the battery life on my current XS is garbage I will upgrade. I don't want to bother with replacing a battery and willing to spend money to avoid that process.
Buy a new Pro Max iPhone every 2 years and enjoy. That works out to only about $1.50 per day, less than a cup of coffee. Buy the phone and keep it 3 years and it only costs $1 a day. Keep it 4 years, and it only costs 75 cents a day.

Obviously, the above does not include sales tax. However, it also does not include the trade in value of your old device which lowers your cost even more of the new phone. Compared to everyone's other daily expenses in life, the device itself is not a huge drag on one's daily expenditures....

Image
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm

Our household is all for good coffee and good phones.

:sharebeer
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
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TX_TURTLE
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Location: Texas

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by TX_TURTLE »

Barefootgirl wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:25 pm So for the iPhone 13, AT&T (and other carriers) have a promo where if you trade in an iPhone X or newer, you get $700 credit towards a new phone.

So if you do not want to give up your current phone, what about buying a used iPhone X, XR, 11, etc via the Facebook marketplace, a friend or other sources and then using that phone to get $700 off? (I have seen Iphone X for $250 or so).

Just thinking the price spread could make this worthwhile? Perhaps I am missing something, please point it out. Thanks
Not sure about AT&T, but T-Mobile (the one I use) is essentially giving you an iPhone 13 pro Max for free and then a few extra dollars: you can trade in your iPhone 12 Pro for $790 with Apple, and then get and additional $500 (over 24 months) from T-Mobile. This covers phone, taxes and also a new case. Of course, you need Magenta Max, but if you have a high data usage (> 15/20 gigabytes a month) it's actually a good deal. Especially if you consider the perks. Among other, you get a discount if you are 55 or older (Magenta Max 55). You get $12 a month towards Netflix. You get to add an Apple Watch with cellular connectivity for +$10 a month (AFAIK many prepaid plans don't allow Apple Watch). You get free international connectivity (at 2G speeds, enough to text your friends or taxi driver). And you get access to these promotions on new iPhones, that as iPhone has become a mature product, get better and better every year.
jfave33
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by jfave33 »

UALflyer wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:33 am
jfave33 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:37 pm ATT gives prepaid and mvnos the same priority level that most att postpaid plans
have.
That's incorrect. As I previously mentioned, mobile carriers handle priority through a mechanism called Quality of Service Class Identifier or QCI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QoS_Class_Identifier). So, for instance, on the AT&T network, FirstNet (used by first responders, etc...) is QCI 6, business performance and consumer elite postpaid plans are QCI 7... MVNO is QCI 9

You are right about qci but wrong about mvno qci on att. They are 8 like most other att plans.

Qci 7 is only att's top plan unlimited elite.

Here is a good summary
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoContract/com ... =post_body
EnjoyIt
Posts: 8244
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:06 pm

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by EnjoyIt »

CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:01 pm
EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:44 am
sureshoe wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:33 am
cacophony wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:46 pm
sureshoe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:35 pm As a random note, I see so many people talking about how they use old phones, etc. If you're running a 4-6 year old phone, bless you. However, if you run apps, take pictures, etc., that's a stinker.
It depends on what phone you're starting with. A good flagship phone these days is probably fine for 4 or more years, but if you're starting with something less capable then you might start to notice significant drawbacks. The motivation to upgrade for me is usually driven by new features/functionality, not lessening performance.
If you had a top of the line phone 4 years ago, you probably don't want "fine" now. The iPhone X came out 4 years ago. It is certainly usable, and nice enough. But an iPhone 13 Pro (or preferably Pro Max) would be a considerable improvement.
Let us ignore the Pro Max for a minute just to keep the size similar. I see very little improvement between the X and the 13. Sure the camera is better, but so what. It doesn't even come close to our Canon mirrorless full frame. Yes, it is faster, but faster does little in regards to just surfing the web, texting and making calls. Yes it has more storage capability, but unless you are storing tons of videos and photos, storage isn't that big of a constraint. Has Wifi 6, so what, our router is still on 5. Battery life, OK, there is definitely improvement especially after what a 4 year old battery life would be but one can replace their current phone battery if they desired and be pretty close.

My point is that for most people a new phone doesn't really buy that much value over an older phone. That being said. When the battery life on my current XS is garbage I will upgrade. I don't want to bother with replacing a battery and willing to spend money to avoid that process.
Buy a new Pro Max iPhone every 2 years and enjoy. That works out to only about $1.50 per day, less than a cup of coffee. Buy the phone and keep it 3 years and it only costs $1 a day. Keep it 4 years, and it only costs 75 cents a day.

Obviously, the above does not include sales tax. However, it also does not include the trade in value of your old device which lowers your cost even more of the new phone. Compared to everyone's other daily expenses in life, the device itself is not a huge drag on one's daily expenditures....

Image
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm

Our household is all for good coffee and good phones.

:sharebeer
I'm all for good coffee. We make our own espresso/cappuccinos. But that is not the point. It is all about value. A new phone has low yield for me. That extra 0.75 cents a day is better being spent on something that has more value for us. Just because something is inexpensive does not mean I need to purchase it. Gum balls are cheep, but I don't like to chew gum.

The latest phone may have value for you and your family. Thats up to you to decide. My family has decided it is of low yield. BTW, I am typing this message on a 2015 MacBook Pro. I use it to surf the web, answer emails, and work on my spreadsheets. I also use it to watch videos when traveling. Outside of the battery now being at 85% of original capacity, the computer works wonderfully. By your metric a new MacBook pro would cost me $1,900. Over 2 years it is only $2.60/day and that is ignoring resale of the older unit. Do I upgrade that also? What about our TV? An upgraded TV would run us about $4,300 at best buy. Over 4 years that comes out to only $2.95/day. We have multiple TVs do we upgrade them all regularly? What else can I calculate in my life like this. Before you know it, I'm spending thousands a year running the technology upgrade treadmill with little value.

On the other hand, a few years ago I built out a media room with a projector and some really comfy couches. The whole project cost well over $10k and something we value significantly as our family regularly enjoys watching movies on our 120 inch screen.

My point being, we try to spend our money where there is value for us. We are not 100%, but we try to do our best.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
UALflyer
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:42 am

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by UALflyer »

jfave33 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:42 pm
UALflyer wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:33 am
jfave33 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:37 pm ATT gives prepaid and mvnos the same priority level that most att postpaid plans
have.
That's incorrect. As I previously mentioned, mobile carriers handle priority through a mechanism called Quality of Service Class Identifier or QCI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QoS_Class_Identifier). So, for instance, on the AT&T network, FirstNet (used by first responders, etc...) is QCI 6, business performance and consumer elite postpaid plans are QCI 7... MVNO is QCI 9

You are right about qci but wrong about mvno qci on att. They are 8 like most other att plans.

Qci 7 is only att's top plan unlimited elite.

Here is a good summary
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoContract/com ... =post_body
Although this reddit link is incomplete, you still may want to re-read it, as the information that it does show is fairly accurate. I think the wording of the reddit post just confused you. On the AT&T network, when it comes to MVNO plans, QCI 8 only applies to the plans that have limited buckets of "high speed" or "premium data." So, for instance, Cricket's 2gb and 10gb plans (https://www.cricketwireless.com/cell-phone-plans) have QCI 8 for those specific data buckets. Cricket's and other MVNO's unlimited plans, as well as all limited data plans that don't have a separate bucket of "high speed" or "premium" data, are all QCI 9. This is exactly what your own reddit link is trying to say (see what it says for QCI 9). Also note (and as your reddit link correctly mentions), MVNO plans frequently have throttling on their plans, and the implementation of the MVNO plans frequently means significantly higher latency, as it is common to run its data through proxies.

Also remember that with MVNO's that have limited data caps, once you exceed the caps, the remaining usage for that month isn't just deprioritized. It is severely throttled. The Cricket link above clearly discloses that the throttling is to 128kbps, which makes it only usable for very low usage applications (simple text messages, emails, etc...). Contrast it with AT&T's postpaid unlimited plans, which are never throttled. Instead, with postpaid unlimited plans, once you exceed the "premium data" allotment for that month, the remaining data usage on that line is at a lower QCI.

As I also explained above (and as your link mentions), business performance and consumer elite postpaid plans are QCI 7. A "business performance" plan doesn't just mean an enterprise plan, and plenty of people with small businesses, for instance, sign up for them. Likewise, the eligibility criteria for Firstnet has been greatly expanded. Firstnet is QCI 6 and is competitively priced ($40/month plus taxes) for qualified individuals. For instance, Firstnet plans are frequently attractive to medical residents or newly minted attendings, who may only have a single line anyway.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by CyclingDuo »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:13 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:01 pm
EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:44 am
sureshoe wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:33 am
cacophony wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:46 pm

It depends on what phone you're starting with. A good flagship phone these days is probably fine for 4 or more years, but if you're starting with something less capable then you might start to notice significant drawbacks. The motivation to upgrade for me is usually driven by new features/functionality, not lessening performance.
If you had a top of the line phone 4 years ago, you probably don't want "fine" now. The iPhone X came out 4 years ago. It is certainly usable, and nice enough. But an iPhone 13 Pro (or preferably Pro Max) would be a considerable improvement.
Let us ignore the Pro Max for a minute just to keep the size similar. I see very little improvement between the X and the 13. Sure the camera is better, but so what. It doesn't even come close to our Canon mirrorless full frame. Yes, it is faster, but faster does little in regards to just surfing the web, texting and making calls. Yes it has more storage capability, but unless you are storing tons of videos and photos, storage isn't that big of a constraint. Has Wifi 6, so what, our router is still on 5. Battery life, OK, there is definitely improvement especially after what a 4 year old battery life would be but one can replace their current phone battery if they desired and be pretty close.

My point is that for most people a new phone doesn't really buy that much value over an older phone. That being said. When the battery life on my current XS is garbage I will upgrade. I don't want to bother with replacing a battery and willing to spend money to avoid that process.
Buy a new Pro Max iPhone every 2 years and enjoy. That works out to only about $1.50 per day, less than a cup of coffee. Buy the phone and keep it 3 years and it only costs $1 a day. Keep it 4 years, and it only costs 75 cents a day.

Obviously, the above does not include sales tax. However, it also does not include the trade in value of your old device which lowers your cost even more of the new phone. Compared to everyone's other daily expenses in life, the device itself is not a huge drag on one's daily expenditures....

Image
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm

Our household is all for good coffee and good phones.

:sharebeer
I'm all for good coffee. We make our own espresso/cappuccinos. But that is not the point. It is all about value. A new phone has low yield for me. That extra 0.75 cents a day is better being spent on something that has more value for us. Just because something is inexpensive does not mean I need to purchase it. Gum balls are cheep, but I don't like to chew gum.

The latest phone may have value for you and your family. Thats up to you to decide. My family has decided it is of low yield. BTW, I am typing this message on a 2015 MacBook Pro. I use it to surf the web, answer emails, and work on my spreadsheets. I also use it to watch videos when traveling. Outside of the battery now being at 85% of original capacity, the computer works wonderfully. By your metric a new MacBook pro would cost me $1,900. Over 2 years it is only $2.60/day and that is ignoring resale of the older unit. Do I upgrade that also? What about our TV? An upgraded TV would run us about $4,300 at best buy. Over 4 years that comes out to only $2.95/day. We have multiple TVs do we upgrade them all regularly? What else can I calculate in my life like this. Before you know it, I'm spending thousands a year running the technology upgrade treadmill with little value.

On the other hand, a few years ago I built out a media room with a projector and some really comfy couches. The whole project cost well over $10k and something we value significantly as our family regularly enjoys watching movies on our 120 inch screen.

My point being, we try to spend our money where there is value for us. We are not 100%, but we try to do our best.
Fair is fair.

Right. You were dishing out your particular bias on the thread. So I dished out my bias right back at you on the thread. To some, it is well worth it. To others it is not. C'est la vie.

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
EnjoyIt
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by EnjoyIt »

CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:46 pm
EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:13 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:01 pm
EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:44 am
sureshoe wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:33 am
If you had a top of the line phone 4 years ago, you probably don't want "fine" now. The iPhone X came out 4 years ago. It is certainly usable, and nice enough. But an iPhone 13 Pro (or preferably Pro Max) would be a considerable improvement.
Let us ignore the Pro Max for a minute just to keep the size similar. I see very little improvement between the X and the 13. Sure the camera is better, but so what. It doesn't even come close to our Canon mirrorless full frame. Yes, it is faster, but faster does little in regards to just surfing the web, texting and making calls. Yes it has more storage capability, but unless you are storing tons of videos and photos, storage isn't that big of a constraint. Has Wifi 6, so what, our router is still on 5. Battery life, OK, there is definitely improvement especially after what a 4 year old battery life would be but one can replace their current phone battery if they desired and be pretty close.

My point is that for most people a new phone doesn't really buy that much value over an older phone. That being said. When the battery life on my current XS is garbage I will upgrade. I don't want to bother with replacing a battery and willing to spend money to avoid that process.
Buy a new Pro Max iPhone every 2 years and enjoy. That works out to only about $1.50 per day, less than a cup of coffee. Buy the phone and keep it 3 years and it only costs $1 a day. Keep it 4 years, and it only costs 75 cents a day.

Obviously, the above does not include sales tax. However, it also does not include the trade in value of your old device which lowers your cost even more of the new phone. Compared to everyone's other daily expenses in life, the device itself is not a huge drag on one's daily expenditures....

Image
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm

Our household is all for good coffee and good phones.

:sharebeer
I'm all for good coffee. We make our own espresso/cappuccinos. But that is not the point. It is all about value. A new phone has low yield for me. That extra 0.75 cents a day is better being spent on something that has more value for us. Just because something is inexpensive does not mean I need to purchase it. Gum balls are cheep, but I don't like to chew gum.

The latest phone may have value for you and your family. Thats up to you to decide. My family has decided it is of low yield. BTW, I am typing this message on a 2015 MacBook Pro. I use it to surf the web, answer emails, and work on my spreadsheets. I also use it to watch videos when traveling. Outside of the battery now being at 85% of original capacity, the computer works wonderfully. By your metric a new MacBook pro would cost me $1,900. Over 2 years it is only $2.60/day and that is ignoring resale of the older unit. Do I upgrade that also? What about our TV? An upgraded TV would run us about $4,300 at best buy. Over 4 years that comes out to only $2.95/day. We have multiple TVs do we upgrade them all regularly? What else can I calculate in my life like this. Before you know it, I'm spending thousands a year running the technology upgrade treadmill with little value.

On the other hand, a few years ago I built out a media room with a projector and some really comfy couches. The whole project cost well over $10k and something we value significantly as our family regularly enjoys watching movies on our 120 inch screen.

My point being, we try to spend our money where there is value for us. We are not 100%, but we try to do our best.
Fair is fair.

Right. You were dishing out your particular bias on the thread. So I dished out my bias right back at you on the thread. To some, it is well worth it. To others it is not. C'est la vie.

CyclingDuo
Au contraire, I believe you started the bias by mentioning how a new phone is a big upgrade and I pointed out how the upgrade may not be so big to a large percentage of users. You then felt I was biased against new phones which I am not and pointed out how you like good coffee of which I do as well.

This forum definitely has its biases. One should only buy a used Honda or Toyota, unless it is a Tesla and price doesn't matter. Houses should cost 2x expenses unless you live in California where 5x is acceptable. I'm sure I can find more. There is an alternate thread going on right now regarding lifestyle creep. It has been a good read. Some think that if your savings are on track then anything extra can be spent on whatever you want. I disagree with that assertion. I don't believe money should be wasted frivolously just because one has some. Each dollar has value. It is the value of one's labor and time allotted to that labor. In the case of a phone that is $1k and that $1k is worth X hours of someone's time. Maybe if you make $10k/hr, that amount is frivolous but for most people that is not the case. For the average American making $53k/yr that phone will cost them over a week of their labor once taxes are taken into account. Bogleheads that make $100/hr will likely have to work 16 hours at 22% tax bracket plus 6.2% Social Security, 1.45% Medicare, and 5% state tax, to pay for that phone. Is that phone worth 2 days of labor, that is for each person to decide? I personally do not value a new phone enough to put in the hours to get it. Your family may think otherwise with absolutely no judgement from me. But, it is not just $1.50/day or whatever you calculated. It is hours of your labor and we only have so many of those to give. Might as well make those hours count.
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Paradise
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by Paradise »

Barefootgirl wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:25 pm So if you do not want to give up your current phone, what about buying a used iPhone X, XR, 11, etc via the Facebook marketplace, a friend or other sources and then using that phone to get $700 off? (I have seen Iphone X for $250 or so).

Just thinking the price spread could make this worthwhile? Perhaps I am missing something, please point it out. Thanks
It works. If you want to go through the trouble, swappa is a good option. They don’t care who owned the phone they’re just going to refurbish it and send it to customers that need another one in the warranty process or sell to uses retailers

You’ll usually save a bunch of money is you were already going to get a post paid plan through them. Not going to enter the debate on whether or not that is a good idea as it’s not relevant to your question.
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sureshoe
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by sureshoe »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:44 am
sureshoe wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:33 am If you had a top of the line phone 4 years ago, you probably don't want "fine" now. The iPhone X came out 4 years ago. It is certainly usable, and nice enough. But an iPhone 13 Pro (or preferably Pro Max) would be a considerable improvement.
Let us ignore the Pro Max for a minute just to keep the size similar. I see very little improvement between the X and the 13. Sure the camera is better, but so what. It doesn't even come close to our Canon mirrorless full frame. Yes, it is faster, but faster does little in regards to just surfing the web, texting and making calls. Yes it has more storage capability, but unless you are storing tons of videos and photos, storage isn't that big of a constraint. Has Wifi 6, so what, our router is still on 5. Battery life, OK, there is definitely improvement especially after what a 4 year old battery life would be but one can replace their current phone battery if they desired and be pretty close.

My point is that for most people a new phone doesn't really buy that much value over an older phone. That being said. When the battery life on my current XS is garbage I will upgrade. I don't want to bother with replacing a battery and willing to spend money to avoid that process.
"Most people" didn't buy the iPhone X. The people who did want a top of the line phone. The iPhone X has a noticeably slower processor and significantly less camera features. If you use apps, the processor does matter. But all that is moot > 4 years is a long time to have the same phone. If you want to use an old phone, have at it. At today's price points and features, I can see keeping phones longer, but it just depends on what you want.

And this whole "my mirrorless is better than a phone", meh - not really. There are tons of sites dedicated to this debate. If you want to lug around a camera, etc. have at it. In 95% of situations, an iPhone takes as good (and sometimes better) pictures than expensive cameras.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by CyclingDuo »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:33 pmAu contraire, I believe you started the bias by mentioning how a new phone is a big upgrade and I pointed out how the upgrade may not be so big to a large percentage of users. You then felt I was biased against new phones which I am not and pointed out how you like good coffee of which I do as well.

This forum definitely has its biases. One should only buy a used Honda or Toyota, unless it is a Tesla and price doesn't matter. Houses should cost 2x expenses unless you live in California where 5x is acceptable. I'm sure I can find more. There is an alternate thread going on right now regarding lifestyle creep. It has been a good read. Some think that if your savings are on track then anything extra can be spent on whatever you want. I disagree with that assertion. I don't believe money should be wasted frivolously just because one has some. Each dollar has value. It is the value of one's labor and time allotted to that labor. In the case of a phone that is $1k and that $1k is worth X hours of someone's time. Maybe if you make $10k/hr, that amount is frivolous but for most people that is not the case. For the average American making $53k/yr that phone will cost them over a week of their labor once taxes are taken into account. Bogleheads that make $100/hr will likely have to work 16 hours at 22% tax bracket plus 6.2% Social Security, 1.45% Medicare, and 5% state tax, to pay for that phone. Is that phone worth 2 days of labor, that is for each person to decide? I personally do not value a new phone enough to put in the hours to get it. Your family may think otherwise with absolutely no judgement from me. But, it is not just $1.50/day or whatever you calculated. It is hours of your labor and we only have so many of those to give. Might as well make those hours count.
Your focus on value as a virtue may work well for you and your family. It's nice to break everything down into the amount of hours required of work to bring in each dollar from your human capital to afford each expenditure in your household - be it wants, needs or variables. David Bach advises the first hour of work, each and every day x 365 days in a year, should be devoted to savings. However, that only ends up in a rate of savings that is 17.5% of one's gross income, but it is indeed a very good start. Before children, and now as empty nesters - we have been able to save well above that rate. I have personally never taken the time to break down all of our expenses into how many hours of human capital were required to pay for each expenditure. The data collected charts and tables provide a similar look, such as these...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The income streams are what they are. We have income streams from our dual income human capital, royalties, dividends/interest, and RMD's from inherited IRA's. Since we are still in our final years of accumulation, we are able to reinvest all of the income streams that are not from our human capital, and save at least 50% of our income from our human capital. The remaining 50% goes for our household expenses (which we do, even though you scoff at it, break down into annual, monthly, and yes- even daily costs).

Many of us who do have an allotted amount of discretionary income from the remainder of the human capital income stream that is not going into additional investments that we can use for wants that we enjoy. A new iPhone every year or two is not going to break the bank. The OP originally asked about some of the excellent carrier deals currently available for a new iPhone with the trade in of their old phone. I read the offer details of each carrier, and provided one has an eligible plan and eligible phone to trade in - they appear to be a very good value proposition with the required amount of time for the contract to qualify for the deal (they range from 30-36 months to remain with the carrier). I ran my device through the website of the carrier that we use, and based on the 5G plan I already have - I could get a new iPhone ProMax 13 with 256GB for $0. Or, if I didn't want to be locked in with that device for the next three years, I could trade in my current iPhone 12 ProMax at Apple for the same storage capacity new iPhone 13 ProMax model for $409. If I kept it one year, that's a cost of $1.12 per day over the year for me to upgrade to the latest and greatest. I pretty much have decided to do this every year to take advantage of the trade in, so my cost per year is very similar for the 256GB models.

We save $183 per day (X 365) from our human capital (the equivalent of our daily/annual current expenses) that goes into our retirement accounts, taxable accounts, iBonds account, etc... . Not sure that saving the additional $1.12 per day that would go to an iPhone is going to change the equation of our plans over the next 30 years. If it was not $1.12 per day and we kept out phones longer, there would still be an expense that we could calculate on a daily basis. So what if we have to work 6 or 7 hours each year to purchase a new iPhone? Our biggest three expenses - like every household - are housing, food, and transportation. Health care is number 4, of course. Our value proposition was to get the big three correct so that we had plenty of freedom with our discretionary income beyond those to enjoy wants along the way - be it a new iPhone, snow skiing, cycling, a vacation, a new pair of shoes, a scented candle, a pile of firewood, a garden, etc... .

We get one journey in life. The money we have allocated to wants can be used however we choose. Our household expenses and our savings are in control enough that the proposition of a new iPhone does not have me worrying over the 6 or 7 hours of work needed to upgrade to the new iPhone. I would be the first to agree, if a household does not have their expenses under control, then there are other options. Such as purchasing a lower cost phone model, keeping their phones longer, buying in the used market, etc... . However one calculates it all out, the actual cost of the device is not such a large stumbling block as it appears.

For the OP, the value proposition of the current carrier deals may indeed be a very worthwhile way to go.

Off to my work day to see where the 8 hours of labor will be spent. :beer

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
EnjoyIt
Posts: 8244
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:06 pm

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by EnjoyIt »

CyclingDuo wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:49 am
EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:33 pmAu contraire, I believe you started the bias by mentioning how a new phone is a big upgrade and I pointed out how the upgrade may not be so big to a large percentage of users. You then felt I was biased against new phones which I am not and pointed out how you like good coffee of which I do as well.

This forum definitely has its biases. One should only buy a used Honda or Toyota, unless it is a Tesla and price doesn't matter. Houses should cost 2x expenses unless you live in California where 5x is acceptable. I'm sure I can find more. There is an alternate thread going on right now regarding lifestyle creep. It has been a good read. Some think that if your savings are on track then anything extra can be spent on whatever you want. I disagree with that assertion. I don't believe money should be wasted frivolously just because one has some. Each dollar has value. It is the value of one's labor and time allotted to that labor. In the case of a phone that is $1k and that $1k is worth X hours of someone's time. Maybe if you make $10k/hr, that amount is frivolous but for most people that is not the case. For the average American making $53k/yr that phone will cost them over a week of their labor once taxes are taken into account. Bogleheads that make $100/hr will likely have to work 16 hours at 22% tax bracket plus 6.2% Social Security, 1.45% Medicare, and 5% state tax, to pay for that phone. Is that phone worth 2 days of labor, that is for each person to decide? I personally do not value a new phone enough to put in the hours to get it. Your family may think otherwise with absolutely no judgement from me. But, it is not just $1.50/day or whatever you calculated. It is hours of your labor and we only have so many of those to give. Might as well make those hours count.
Your focus on value as a virtue may work well for you and your family. It's nice to break everything down into the amount of hours required of work to bring in each dollar from your human capital to afford each expenditure in your household - be it wants, needs or variables. David Bach advises the first hour of work, each and every day x 365 days in a year, should be devoted to savings. However, that only ends up in a rate of savings that is 17.5% of one's gross income, but it is indeed a very good start. Before children, and now as empty nesters - we have been able to save well above that rate. I have personally never taken the time to break down all of our expenses into how many hours of human capital were required to pay for each expenditure. The data collected charts and tables provide a similar look, such as these...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The income streams are what they are. We have income streams from our dual income human capital, royalties, dividends/interest, and RMD's from inherited IRA's. Since we are still in our final years of accumulation, we are able to reinvest all of the income streams that are not from our human capital, and save at least 50% of our income from our human capital. The remaining 50% goes for our household expenses (which we do, even though you scoff at it, break down into annual, monthly, and yes- even daily costs).

Many of us who do have an allotted amount of discretionary income from the remainder of the human capital income stream that is not going into additional investments that we can use for wants that we enjoy. A new iPhone every year or two is not going to break the bank. The OP originally asked about some of the excellent carrier deals currently available for a new iPhone with the trade in of their old phone. I read the offer details of each carrier, and provided one has an eligible plan and eligible phone to trade in - they appear to be a very good value proposition with the required amount of time for the contract to qualify for the deal (they range from 30-36 months to remain with the carrier). I ran my device through the website of the carrier that we use, and based on the 5G plan I already have - I could get a new iPhone ProMax 13 with 256GB for $0. Or, if I didn't want to be locked in with that device for the next three years, I could trade in my current iPhone 12 ProMax at Apple for the same storage capacity new iPhone 13 ProMax model for $409. If I kept it one year, that's a cost of $1.12 per day over the year for me to upgrade to the latest and greatest. I pretty much have decided to do this every year to take advantage of the trade in, so my cost per year is very similar for the 256GB models.

We save $183 per day (X 365) from our human capital (the equivalent of our daily/annual current expenses) that goes into our retirement accounts, taxable accounts, iBonds account, etc... . Not sure that saving the additional $1.12 per day that would go to an iPhone is going to change the equation of our plans over the next 30 years. If it was not $1.12 per day and we kept out phones longer, there would still be an expense that we could calculate on a daily basis. So what if we have to work 6 or 7 hours each year to purchase a new iPhone? Our biggest three expenses - like every household - are housing, food, and transportation. Health care is number 4, of course. Our value proposition was to get the big three correct so that we had plenty of freedom with our discretionary income beyond those to enjoy wants along the way - be it a new iPhone, snow skiing, cycling, a vacation, a new pair of shoes, a scented candle, a pile of firewood, a garden, etc... .

We get one journey in life. The money we have allocated to wants can be used however we choose. Our household expenses and our savings are in control enough that the proposition of a new iPhone does not have me worrying over the 6 or 7 hours of work needed to upgrade to the new iPhone. I would be the first to agree, if a household does not have their expenses under control, then there are other options. Such as purchasing a lower cost phone model, keeping their phones longer, buying in the used market, etc... . However one calculates it all out, the actual cost of the device is not such a large stumbling block as it appears.

For the OP, the value proposition of the current carrier deals may indeed be a very worthwhile way to go.

Off to my work day to see where the 8 hours of labor will be spent. :beer

CyclingDuo
Great write up. Thanks.

Value is a virtue is more overboard than how we live our life and I don't scoff at your choice of evaluating everything by dollars per day. It is what floats your boat. My math follows dollars per year divided by 12.

You have decided that a new phone every year is worth your time/money. Again, I do not judge that choice. Everyone values things differently. I have low value from a new phone and you have a higher value. For us that dollar a day can be used elsewhere to provide us more joy than a newer phone. You are happy with your choices and I am happy with mine.

We definitely diverted the conversation from the OP which admittedly is my fault.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
Texanbybirth
Posts: 1612
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:07 pm

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by Texanbybirth »

sureshoe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:35 pm As a random note, I see so many people talking about how they use old phones, etc. If you're running a 4-6 year old phone, bless you. However, if you run apps, take pictures, etc., that's a stinker.
I've got an iPhone XS we've had since launch day. It's still a beast, and plenty fast for daily use. Battery health shows 84% max cap. My wife has a 12 Pro. The picture quality is of course superior and her battery beats mine everyday, but if I wake up with a full charge at 6a I don't have to plug it in till bedtime @ 10p.

(I'm one of those people who would buy a new phone every year if I could, a fan boy so to speak, but I just can't justify the cost.)

To the OP, if you're going to do any carrier trade-ins, I'd still do it through Apple (at a store if possible) instead of the carrier. They get the exact same deals.
“The strong cannot be brave. Only the weak can be brave; and yet again, in practice, only those who can be brave can be trusted, in time of doubt, to be strong.“ - GK Chesterton
jfave33
Posts: 3287
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by jfave33 »

UALflyer wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:19 pm
jfave33 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:42 pm
UALflyer wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:33 am
jfave33 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:37 pm ATT gives prepaid and mvnos the same priority level that most att postpaid plans
have.
That's incorrect. As I previously mentioned, mobile carriers handle priority through a mechanism called Quality of Service Class Identifier or QCI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QoS_Class_Identifier). So, for instance, on the AT&T network, FirstNet (used by first responders, etc...) is QCI 6, business performance and consumer elite postpaid plans are QCI 7... MVNO is QCI 9

You are right about qci but wrong about mvno qci on att. They are 8 like most other att plans.

Qci 7 is only att's top plan unlimited elite.

Here is a good summary
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoContract/com ... =post_body
Although this reddit link is incomplete, you still may want to re-read it, as the information that it does show is fairly accurate. I think the wording of the reddit post just confused you. On the AT&T network, when it comes to MVNO plans, QCI 8 only applies to the plans that have limited buckets of "high speed" or "premium data." So, for instance, Cricket's 2gb and 10gb plans (https://www.cricketwireless.com/cell-phone-plans) have QCI 8 for those specific data buckets. Cricket's and other MVNO's unlimited plans, as well as all limited data plans that don't have a separate bucket of "high speed" or "premium" data, are all QCI 9. This is exactly what your own reddit link is trying to say (see what it says for QCI 9). Also note (and as your reddit link correctly mentions), MVNO plans frequently have throttling on their plans, and the implementation of the MVNO plans frequently means significantly higher latency, as it is common to run its data through proxies.

Also remember that with MVNO's that have limited data caps, once you exceed the caps, the remaining usage for that month isn't just deprioritized. It is severely throttled. The Cricket link above clearly discloses that the throttling is to 128kbps, which makes it only usable for very low usage applications (simple text messages, emails, etc...). Contrast it with AT&T's postpaid unlimited plans, which are never throttled. Instead, with postpaid unlimited plans, once you exceed the "premium data" allotment for that month, the remaining data usage on that line is at a lower QCI.

As I also explained above (and as your link mentions), business performance and consumer elite postpaid plans are QCI 7. A "business performance" plan doesn't just mean an enterprise plan, and plenty of people with small businesses, for instance, sign up for them. Likewise, the eligibility criteria for Firstnet has been greatly expanded. Firstnet is QCI 6 and is competitively priced ($40/month plus taxes) for qualified individuals. For instance, Firstnet plans are frequently attractive to medical residents or newly minted attendings, who may only have a single line anyway.
Go back and see where you were the one who said mvnos are qci 9 with no distinction about the plan type. Which is not true and needed correcting. The majority of att mvno plans are qci 8. There are very few truly unlimited mvno plans (since mvnos are usually paying att wholesale rates per the gb) so most fall under qci 8. Most of the ones that fall under qci 9 are not by mvnos but the carrier prepaid brands like cricket unlimited. Which also have caps on speed. If you need true unlimited data then yes att postpaid becomes worthwhile. Very few consumers need that though.

The fact is most consumers who buy a postpaid att plan are qci 8. Most consumers who buy a mvno att plan are at qci 8. There is virtually no difference. It is one of the main advantages of going with an att mvno - the priority level is not at a lower level. Of course not talking about the top higher priority plans att has for those people who really need priority.

When you buy a tmobile or verizon mvno plan your prioritization is more often than not at a lower level than postpaid. For those 2 networks it is often beneficial to go postpaid or one of the exceptions like xfinity mobile or tmobile prepaid or googlefi.

So for the op unless they have an advanced att postpaid plan which I highly doubt then they will be better off with an mvno plan than getting sucked into an expensive postpaid plan. Very few regular consumers need an att postpaid plan.
UALflyer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:42 am

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by UALflyer »

jfave33 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:41 pmGo back and see where you were the one who said mvnos are qci 9 with no distinction about the plan type. Which is not true and needed correcting. The majority of att mvno plans are qci 8. There are very few truly unlimited mvno plans (since mvnos are usually paying att wholesale rates per the gb) so most fall under qci 8. Most of the ones that fall under qci 9 are not by mvnos but the carrier prepaid brands like cricket unlimited. Which also have caps on speed. If you need true unlimited data then yes att postpaid becomes worthwhile. Very few consumers need that though.
This continues to be incorrect. Your post appears to be based on a faulty assumption that a limited data plan on an MVNO automatically means QCI 8 on AT&T. That's not the way it works. Only limited plans with "premium data" or "high speed" data are QCI 8, and the vast majority of MVNO/prepaid plans do not come with that. Your own link above mentions the exact same thing, except you are getting confused by the way that the poster phrased it.

Here's more, which says the same thing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoContract/com ... r_an_mvno/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATT/comments/n ... th_towers/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATT/comments/e ... ted_elite/

As I also mentioned above, you are also conflating QCI and network performance. Because of the way that a lot of MVNO plans are implemented, its data frequently has higher latency, as a lot of them run it through proxies. In other words, speed caps may or may not end up affecting real world network performance, but latency is frequently a big issue. Having a limited data bucket at QCI 8 won't do much for you when your ping is 140ms.
expensive postpaid plan.
You also continue to assume that all or at least most postpaid plans are more expensive than MVNO/prepaid. There are a ton of exceptions to this, and I've provided links above, together with an explanation of our own postpaid plan and the associated discounts. As I mentioned above, we can't get even close to our level of service and pricing with any MVNO plans out there, and a ton of people out there have this setup.
1TheGame
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:38 am

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by 1TheGame »

I use Xfinity Mobile as my cell phone carrier. I have been satisfied with the the cost of service based on my data usage. If you already use Xfinity Mobile as your carrier and are not interested in switching carriers, they have a nice deal on new iPhones. A couple of months after buying a new iPhone you get a $300 gift card in the mail that can be used for any purchase. Your can either pay the full cost of the phone up front or spread it out over 24 months (with no interest charge). I just upgraded from an iPhone 8 to a 13.
jfave33
Posts: 3287
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by jfave33 »

UALflyer wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:33 am
jfave33 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:41 pmGo back and see where you were the one who said mvnos are qci 9 with no distinction about the plan type. Which is not true and needed correcting. The majority of att mvno plans are qci 8. There are very few truly unlimited mvno plans (since mvnos are usually paying att wholesale rates per the gb) so most fall under qci 8. Most of the ones that fall under qci 9 are not by mvnos but the carrier prepaid brands like cricket unlimited. Which also have caps on speed. If you need true unlimited data then yes att postpaid becomes worthwhile. Very few consumers need that though.
This continues to be incorrect. Your post appears to be based on a faulty assumption that a limited data plan on an MVNO automatically means QCI 8 on AT&T. That's not the way it works. Only limited plans with "premium data" or "high speed" data are QCI 8, and the vast majority of MVNO/prepaid plans do not come with that. Your own link above mentions the exact same thing, except you are getting confused by the way that the poster phrased it.

Here's more, which says the same thing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoContract/com ... r_an_mvno/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATT/comments/n ... th_towers/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATT/comments/e ... ted_elite/

As I also mentioned above, you are also conflating QCI and network performance. Because of the way that a lot of MVNO plans are implemented, its data frequently has higher latency, as a lot of them run it through proxies. In other words, speed caps may or may not end up affecting real world network performance, but latency is frequently a big issue. Having a limited data bucket at QCI 8 won't do much for you when your ping is 140ms.
expensive postpaid plan.
You also continue to assume that all or at least most postpaid plans are more expensive than MVNO/prepaid. There are a ton of exceptions to this, and I've provided links above, together with an explanation of our own postpaid plan and the associated discounts. As I mentioned above, we can't get even close to our level of service and pricing with any MVNO plans out there, and a ton of people out there have this setup.
You sound like an att postpaid salesman. You are taking fringe issues and trying to make out that most people on an att mvno will be miserable and far better off on postpaid. It simply isn't true. Your links are years old and I can show you a hundred newer ones contradicting them. You are doing people a disservice to continue to push these expensive plans.

Your claim that most att mvno don't have 'premium data" or "high speed data" is just false. Most have qci 8 priority data same as most postpaid plans. There are a few exceptions but they are not the rule. "Premium" being att postpaid's own term so most mvnos won't say that.

Yes sure some may experience slightly higher latency but nothing noticeable in normal use and certainly 140ms isn't normal. You are over exaggerating by 100. Maybe some international esim routing through a china on att towers might get that.

Frankly you are trying to bombard the op with technical details that matter zero to the consumer. For most people an att mvno will seem to perform identically to a standard postpaid att plan. It is one of the main advantages of going with att. Save money, get similar service and they even have iphone deals.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for att postpaid plans. Family groups are better off or those needing the highest priority can pick your top plans. But frankly the majority of ordinary consumers don't need them.
UALflyer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:42 am

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by UALflyer »

jfave33 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:43 pm You are doing people a disservice to continue to push these expensive plans.
I would respectfully suggest that instead of continuing to post your opinions about "these expensive plans," you take a look at the plans and the pricing that I have linked above, which in a number of situations actually cost the same or less.

I've also already addressed the rest of the issues and have provided supporting links. As always, you have the prerogative to reject whatever information you don't like, but the personal attacks are completely uncalled for and are completely pointless, as people can just review the links and come to their own conclusions based on their individual situations.

For the record, I don't have any affinity for AT&T or any of its competitors. They are all a necessary evil with super annoying and frustrating policies. I can't do anything about those, so I might as well figure out how to get the best combination of service and price for myself.
chazas
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:22 pm
Location: NoVa

Re: Possible iPhone 13 deal?

Post by chazas »

I just did the iPhone trade in deal on T-Mobile. Super happy with it.

I was paying $110 a month on Verizon for an iPhone 11 Pro Max unlimited with at $20 add on for an old cellular iPad.

I eliminated the cellular iPad fee. Total credit for the 11 was $1000 - and I paid only a little over that out of pocket a year and a half ago whenI bought it. I got a 13 Pro Max which is a noticeable step up, and went to the 55+ magenta plan. I’m losing $10 monthly loyalty credit from Verizon on my Fios bill but am getting a $9 monthly credit towards Netflix, and the wireless bill is down to $65. I do use tethering when I commute and there’s more than enough on the new plan for my purposes.

And I have 5G coverage in my neighborhood now instead of being in a Verizon coverage gap.

Could i do better with a prepaid plan of some kind? Maybe, but this suits my needs for now.
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