Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

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Valuethinker
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by Valuethinker »

smectym wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:18 pm
jayjayc wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:55 pm OP, be vigilant. Be the 1 person on the street whose eyes aren't glued to their phone. This alone should make you a less likely target. Designate someone else in your group to use their phone to navigate.

While your head is kept on a swivel, you'll have the amazing benefit of soaking in the sights and people.

If you plan to be out at night, get a powerful yet pocketable flashlight. It's another signal to predators that you're aware and not an easy target.
These are solid pointers. Also, I know it sounds absurd, but walk tall and “with purpose,” eyes scanning the surroundings, swinging the arms a bit with fists lightly clenched. I’ve read this since, but before I ever read it, living in a tough district in Brooklyn a casual friend took me aside and said I was dressing too “straight” (he meant, what we would consider today an impoverished version of “business casual”), and walking in a timid posture, eyes cast down: these “cues” made me a target.

This was post my having been robbed on the street.
Anything but absurd.

I once read of a study where they tested photos (or film clips) of pedestrians to a group of prisoners (who had been incarcerated for street crimes). They were absolutely clear about who they would target. I don't remember all of it - but it was precisely what you say - they don't target people who are alert and look like they would be trouble.

(To be clear, I don't every advocate fighting someone over a possession. You don't know what stimulants the perpetrator might be using which will influence their judgement or restraint, or how desperate they might be, or what weapons they might be carrying. A desperate (man, almost always) will kill. Your camera, wallet or phone is not worth that)

If you watch chimpanzees (who will commit homicide, although usually of chimps outside their tribal group) then there's a quite well defined social hierarchy among the males (much subtler among females, but also present) in a grouping. Who walks how, who gives way, who keeps their eyes down. With new younger males, it breaks down, until the dominant males enforce it again (cue lots of screaming and fighting, not usually too severe *within* a tribal group).

That's like an exaggerated view of how humans behave. The same is true in a schoolyard, and, I imagine, a prison. A military unit enforces it "salute the rank, not the man".

I have read it's similar in areas of social deprivation & poverty. A quite elaborate hierarchy of how you walk, keep your eyes down, who has social status and power etc. In the current London form it extends to entirely invisible barriers re "my Manor" (nowadays the kids say "my End") -- you can be killed for wandering into the territory of another group or gang.

Anthropologists seem to be saying that violence occurs, among primates, in "liminal spaces". I.e. it is the territorial boundaries between groups that have the greatest incidence of violence. In our context, those anonymous urban spaces that nobody owns.

I once lived on the same street as a family of very old fashioned London crime lords (successors to the Krays). I was unaware of this, and shortly after I bought the flat a cabbie said to me "I don't imagine you have too much trouble around here, then". It was like a protected little oasis from street crime & break-ins. Criminals didn't trespass on "their Manor".
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by Dude2 »

runninginvestor wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:21 pm
RobLIC wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:16 pm I live in NYC and walk my dog at night. Started carrying pepper spray with me when things got sketchy here. It makes me feel better. Although … I suspect that I’d spray myself before any potential mugger. :beer
I remember going off to college they brought the campus police in from the neighboring university to our high school senior year. He mentioned pepper spray is okay. But in reality when people use it, unless they have it in their hands ready to go or are trained, it just goes everywhere and incapacitated all parties, if you're lucky, and not just yourself. He recommended having it out and ready in your hand while walking to avoid the worst mistakes.
I used to carry pepper spray while jogging -- the idea being that I wouldn't be at my best if I had to put up a fight, having just exerted myself. The secondary benefit of it is the UV dye they put in. If you suffer from "face blindness", i.e. you're never going to remember what your assailants look like -- at least the UV dye would get all over them and help to prevent misidentification. Anyway, seems more appropriate to me that carrying an actual offensive weapon.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by oldcomputerguy »

A snarky exchange was removed. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by lazydavid »

ClevrChico wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:11 pm I last visited right before Covid and had no worries.
Which is actually right before it started to get bad.

I've lived in the Chicago suburbs all my life, and have spent considerable time downtown for most of it. But we've cancelled several trips in the past year that we normally would have taken, and not considered others, because the violence is worse than it's been in a long time, and also spreading more into areas it was traditionally pretty rare in.

January through August, we've had 524 murders in the city--the most since the crack wars 25 years ago. For that same period in 2019, there were 339. It's not uncommon for us to have multiple mass shootings on each of several consecutive weekends. The majority are still in the problematic areas on the South and West sides. But there are far more shootings on the expressways than there ever have been--frequent enough that even within a given day, you have to be specific about WHICH expressway shooting you're referring to if you want to discuss it.

There are also quite a few more incidents in the "touristy" areas than there typically are. There was a fatal stabbing right outside our favorite place to stay a couple months ago, on Wacker just west of Michigan. Multiple shootings outside Quartino, a great restaurant in the heart of river north (plus a vicious beating there just this week). A pitched gun battle between rival gangs in the parking garage of a luxury high rise. A bank teller stabbed to death for no reason in the middle of the day this week.

So we don't go anymore, which is kinda sad. That said, if you keep your wits about you, do most of your exploring in the popular areas during the day, are very careful about where you go at night and taxi/uber directly back to your hotel, the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor. When we go, we have to bring our 14-year old and my father-in law, who doesn't move quickly and has absolutely no self-awareness, so that kind of throws a wrench in the mix.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by devopscoder »

bogletay wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:32 pm Is this New York City? If so, you're fine. City is still great and I was just there this weekend.
I’m a NJ native who has been to NYC a million times but now live in Mass. I did have my car broken into in South Street Seaport area (tourist area) in broad daylight. Now this was thirty years ago. The other issue I think is that the car had Mass plates and an Enterprise rent-a-car bumper sticker. They broke into the trunk with a screwdriver and stole the contents.

At the time, I was visiting friends while on a business trip. We were gone from the car for a couple of hours having lunch somewhere nearby.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by kbjeffrey »

I live in Chicago, just south of the Loop. There have been a bit more shootings and car jackings than usual, but during the day it is safe. During the day there are still tons of tourists around and many families enjoying everything there is to do. The EL and buses are safe during the day. My two daughters are in high school and take the bus and train to get to school. If I was traveling at night, I might not take public transportation. I do take both without any problems during the day. If my daughters want to visit a friend and they'll need to travel home at night, i do pick them up in my car.

With that all said, Chicago is a wonderful city and a great place to visit. I've lived a lot of places but Chicago is my favorite.
Last edited by kbjeffrey on Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
mgensler
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by mgensler »

I visited for five days last month with three of my kids ages 11 - 14. We stayed at an Airbnb in river north, rented bikes and explored all of the areas on your list and more. We had a blast. Chicago was much better than I remember from our visit a few years ago.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by carolinaman »

I think a strong dose of common sense is needed when traveling. Always be aware of your surroundings. Ask hotel and other people about safety, areas to avoid, etc. Do not act like a tourist if possible. Most of this advice applies wherever you go, even in your town.

Years ago I went to New York on business. I am always worried about being downtown in a large city so I am extra careful in those situations. I was watching the 11pm news on TV and they told of a crazed man who walked into the local NBC studio that evening and murdered a cameraman. They said he was from Charlotte, NC and that is where I live! I guess NY would be a safe place if you keep those crazy people from Charlotte out.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by dbr »

A large fraction of current crime increases in my community involve gang disputes, people buying and selling illegal drugs, and people having fights in dive bars in the early hours of the morning. Innocent bystanders can be hurt in those places at those times. Theft from cars in public places is well known everywhere. A recent scourge in quiet neighborhoods is theft of catalytic converters from vehicles parked in the street. Excepting keeping belongings out of sight these issues do not affect tourists enjoying their visit.

[OT COVID comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]
Chicago60
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by Chicago60 »

Almost all of the serious crime in Chicago takes place in a couple of pocket areas; none of which is an area you have listed as desiring to visit. These seem to be rival gangs shooting at each other on what seems a daily basis, no matter who the mayor or chief of police is, and no matter what policies are put in place in an attempt to stop this horrific crime.
As others have noted, apart from these small pockets, there has also been an uptick in crime in other areas of the city, including the highly desirable areas you are scheduled to visit, in addition to the seeming random shooting on the expressway. Some of this has been the increase in crime due to Covid and the economic impact that has had on our most vulnerable population. Some of this is attributable to rival gangs visiting the bars late at night and causing a ruckus. The most recent one mentioned above where a bank employee was killed at work daytime was allegedly done by a man with a history of mental illness.
We visit all the areas you are planning on visiting, in both daylight hours and at night; but generally not late into the night. We feel safe. Be aware of your surroundings and stay in crowded areas.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

You might want to read The Gift of Fear. It helps people understand how to trust their gut in specific situations and evaluate risk of becoming a crime victim.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by michaeljc70 »

Canopus wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:43 pm OP here.

The city is Chicago.

The areas of which I have read where street crime has increased (against locals and tourists alike): River North (art galleries/antiques), Michigan Avenue (Symphony Center/Orchestra Hall), and West Loop (cuisine).

Input from Chicago area residents would be appreciated.

Canopus
I live there. Though crime is up substantially, I wouldn't particularly worry about it unless you are a big worrier in general. Most of the shootings are in areas a tourist would never visit. Carjacking has become an increased problem, but most tourists wouldn't have a car. I'd be more worried at night, particularly late night. The areas you mentioned tend to be busy during the day and dining hours so I wouldn't be too concerned about crime in those areas during normal hours. Obviously, it is a big city and the normal level of awareness and precautions to crime should be taken into account like any other big city.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Urban denizen here. I’m not sure risk is only about statistics, important as they are. Luck is a big part of it. It also matters whether a person has much experience, practice and aptitude for recognizing, evaluating and reacting to potentially dangerous situations. The Gift of Fear helps inculcate this awareness so that people can trust their own intuition, which the author believes is our best danger warning signal.

Is sailing dangerous? Yes, if you’ve never done it...
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JackoC
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by JackoC »

123 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:55 pm Be sure to consider the risk to your safety if you remain in your current location. You may be safer elsewhere.

I don't think local crime statistics will be that useful in evaluating your safety as a tourist. Tourists are always at much higher risk for crime then local residents. They are not familiar with their surroundings. They frequent tourist areas/attractions and are in parts of town (hotels areas) easier to target by criminals. They often act like tourists (they are intrigued by things locals ignore) and can be easily identified. Their vehicles are packed with observable luggage (thanks to the popularity of SUVs). They may carry more cash as tourists than they would as a local. We live near some tourist areas and crimes against tourists don't often get reported in the news due to their frequency (old news). When a local gets robbed we hear about it because the locals are known. Tourists are less likely to report crimes because they have other places to go and they generally don't want to come back for court proceedings even if a criminal is identified.
There's a big factor in the other direction though. Crime stats for a whole city in almost any US city include a much higher crime rate in some areas than others, and the areas with the high crime rates tend to be places tourists don't go. In some European cities I think your description would be accurate. In some of them there's basically a professional criminal class, often themselves foreigners in that country, targeting tourists for property crimes. They don't bother plying their trade outside tourist areas of the city. In American cities crime tends to be less organized and more 'organic' to blighted areas where tourists generally don't go.

Chicago was eventually revealed as the city, I don't know it that well. In NY which I do know well crime has risen again from low points a few years ago and that's very disappointing, albeit nowhere near what it was at peak in 1990's (serious crimes had declined more than 90% in some categories from peak as of a few years ago). But the risk to tourists, where the vast majority of tourists would go, is still next to nothing in NY IMO. There basically aren't professional pickpockets and smash/grabbers like some places in Europe and the victims of 'non professional' street crime are overwhelmingly people who live in relatively high crime neighborhoods outside the central areas of the City, where all but the most adventurous tourists wouldn't go. It's compounded by the City's enormous size. The remaining actually high crime areas of NY are literally miles from the parts of Manhattan where tourists are concentrated. In smaller 'big' US cities, even Chicago, the physical distance from tourist or 'nice' areas to high crime areas is less.

If there were really accurate crime stats for particular areas, it might be more a matter of who is victim, and maybe more likely tourists. I know there are sources purporting to give these stats. But first I think those generally tend to underline what I said in 1st paragraph, the crime rate in the tourist areas would probably be low. Second I know where I live (less than a mile from Manhattan in NJ) crime shows up not super low but it's because of bar fights, lots of bars. 'Minding your own business walking down the street and boom!' crime risk is basically zero here. And I'm only a little more on guard when in Midtown or Downtown Manhattan than here, long inductive experience tells I'm safe, and the tourists walking by aren't in a lot more danger.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by squirm »

ummm, maybe just stay out of the dumpy slum infested neighborhoods and don't stay out late at bars...you know, things we have all been told since kids.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by Alex Frakt »

Canopus wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:43 pm OP here.

The city is Chicago.

The areas of which I have read where street crime has increased (against locals and tourists alike): River North (art galleries/antiques), Michigan Avenue (Symphony Center/Orchestra Hall), and West Loop (cuisine).

Input from Chicago area residents would be appreciated.

Canopus
I have lived in River North and the Loop since 2002. I have no problem walking my dog at midnight or taking my kids to the parks after dark. The West Loop used to be questionable at night, but that was at least a decade ago. Do you think McDonald's would have moved their world HQ from the Chicago suburbs (Oak Brook) to the West Loop if it weren't safe? Google also located their Midwest HQ in the West Loop.

The only robbery you need to be concerned about is the $14 cocktails.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by invest2bfree »

Canopus wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:47 pm In planning a vacation trip to a major American city, I have been reading the websites of mainstream news organizations from that city (newspapers, TV stations, etc.). There have been numerous reports of an uptick of street crime (many violent incidents) in areas frequented by tourists, including areas with a heavy concentration of art galleries, the avenue where the performing arts center is located, etc.

How can I gauge the threat to my safety if I visit? Is there an objective (data-driven) source of recent street crime statistics for major American cities?

Canopus
[OP later specifies River North, West Loop, and Loop neighborhoods of Chicago - admin Alex]
We live in the suburbs and visit the city quite often. It is very safe and would be surprised how nice the downtown area is. Just dont go to bad neighborhoods.

In 2019 we visited Mexico City and stayed in Zocola and we felt perfectly safe.
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Cruise
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Cruise »

OP: When visiting a new city, we take one or more of the following safety steps:

1. Hire a guide. They will know where not to go.

2. Seek out the director of security at the hotel where you are staying. They know where it is risky vs safe.

3. Talk to the bell desk or concierge desk.

So far, so good.
Last edited by Cruise on Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by oldcomputerguy »

A couple of off-topic comments discussing the COVID-19 pandemic were removed. See: Please read before posting on coronavirus/COVID-19
We understand that many people want to discuss the coronavirus. However, as a primarily investment-related forum, this is not the place for medical / political / social posting about the virus.
The news is full of stories giving stats for COVID-19 around the country. The OP is asking here specifically about street crime. Please keep the discussion responsive to that subject.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by bob60014 »

Alex Frakt wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:10 pm
The only robbery you need to be concerned about is the $14 cocktails.

Bingo, so true!
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by carolinaman »

mr_brightside wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:21 pm some people walk around in 'condition red' all the time ... some people walk around oblivious...

you need to find your happy medium. take common sense precautions:

- know where you're going and your route to / from
- stay with a group when possible
- keep your head up -- observing your surroundings / situational awareness
- don't go to sketchy ATMs ESPECIALLY after dark
- trust your gut instincts -- this is where a lot of people fail...
- keep your cell phone, valuables, wallet etc secured / out of sight
- be extra careful after 11pm
etc

you have to find the balance of living enjoyably and personal safety. when you're the victim the crime rate is 100%. :oops:

--------------------------------------------------------
+1. Good advice. When in large cities, I enjoy walking around to see the city, but I try to stay in areas with lots of street traffic, tourists and business people. I found Chicago's downtown area pretty safe, but venturing out of it can be an adventure. Extra caution should be used for after dark as some areas will change from safe to dicey. Ask the hotel staff for safety advice.

Chicago is a great city. I hope you enjoy your stay.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by Wricha »

pezblanco wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:33 pm
Fudgie wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:43 pm
Canopus wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:47 pm In planning a vacation trip to a major American city, I have been reading the websites of mainstream news organizations from that city (newspapers, TV stations, etc.). There have been numerous reports of an uptick of street crime (many violent incidents) in areas frequented by tourists, including areas with a heavy concentration of art galleries, the avenue where the performing arts center is located, etc.

How can I gauge the threat to my safety if I visit? Is there an objective (data-driven) source of recent street crime statistics for major American cities?

Canopus
Why not name the city so that some helpful locals can chime in?
This is a typical BH thread ... First: Someone asks a ludicrously broad question that contains absolutely no needed information so that it's impossible to make an intelligent response. Second: The thread will continue for 3 pages with respondents answering in kind.

I'm always astonished for such a heavily moderated group as BHs that these sorts of thread aren't terminated also. Oh well, just as long as we're not discussing crypto, it's all good. :D
The Chicago Trib. maintains a detailed data base with all the murders and violent crimes in Chicago by exact location, type of attack, time of the attack and arrest. It is eye opening data base. They also give you a map where these crimes take place. I believe this will answer most data driven questions you may have about Chicago’s safety.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Kellerreiss »

Yes, we downtown residents of Chicago are experiencing far more street-crime and violent crime episodes than two years ago.

We live in Streeterville, north of Chicago River, east of Michigan Ave, in downtown area, very near Navy Pier and Northwestern Hospital. We're long-time downtown residents who work downtown, who only two years ago frequently travelled all over Chicago without much concern about personal safety. So I'm that local resident who can directly speak on this topic. Street-crime is out of control in downtown Chicago, including the Loop business district, the Art Institute/Millennium Park tourist areas, Michigan Ave/Oak Street/State Street/Rush Street retail corridors, River North area which contains lots of bars and restaurants, Lincoln Park and lakefront, etc. Don't rely on blandishments that "everything is fine in Chicago". Nope, it's certainly not.

Normal pedestrian street-activity is still dramatically reduced in downtown areas. Tourists overall are now scarcely seen, while conventioneers and international travelers are near non-existent. Hotels are relying on "room-partiers" to boost their extremely low occupancy-rates, so choose your hotel wisely. Don't pick a hotel in River North, or the "good deal" hotel; rely on expensive hotel with a "dowager" reputation. When picking a restaurant to dine-out, remember to bring your mask, your vaccination card if need be (check beforehand), and uber/cab to/from restaurant. AVOID River North bars and restaurants at night. Don't be in Loop at night. Generally-speaking, AVOID CTA subway-system Red Lines, never use subway at night after rush-hour commuter-traffic ends (7 pm), and always be prepared to be grossed-out.

There's excellent local blog-site on Chicago street-crime, called CWB blog. Be sure to Google it, and read at least two weeks past postings. Be prepared for unpredictable street situations. Car-jackings now occur far too often even in broad daylight in downtown areas, and other formerly "safe" otherwise-upscale neighborhoods; ditto day-time street-muggings and "apple (phone) pickings". When walking about in downtown and tourist areas, dress down, wear shoes you can walk-run in, skip the purse, don't use your cell-phone, avoid groups of "rowdy-behaving teens". Be willing to give yourself (not other folks) benefit of doubt.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Wricha wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:49 am
pezblanco wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:33 pm
Fudgie wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:43 pm
Canopus wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:47 pm In planning a vacation trip to a major American city, I have been reading the websites of mainstream news organizations from that city (newspapers, TV stations, etc.). There have been numerous reports of an uptick of street crime (many violent incidents) in areas frequented by tourists, including areas with a heavy concentration of art galleries, the avenue where the performing arts center is located, etc.

How can I gauge the threat to my safety if I visit? Is there an objective (data-driven) source of recent street crime statistics for major American cities?

Canopus
Why not name the city so that some helpful locals can chime in?
This is a typical BH thread ... First: Someone asks a ludicrously broad question that contains absolutely no needed information so that it's impossible to make an intelligent response. Second: The thread will continue for 3 pages with respondents answering in kind.

I'm always astonished for such a heavily moderated group as BHs that these sorts of thread aren't terminated also. Oh well, just as long as we're not discussing crypto, it's all good. :D
The Chicago Trib. maintains a detailed data base with all the murders and violent crimes in Chicago by exact location, type of attack, time of the attack and arrest. It is eye opening data base. They also give you a map where these crimes take place. I believe this will answer most data driven questions you may have about Chicago’s safety.
I think there is also something called Citizens App, but I never used it.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling (Major American City)

Post by Wricha »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:17 pm
Wricha wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:49 am
pezblanco wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:33 pm
Fudgie wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:43 pm
Canopus wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:47 pm In planning a vacation trip to a major American city, I have been reading the websites of mainstream news organizations from that city (newspapers, TV stations, etc.). There have been numerous reports of an uptick of street crime (many violent incidents) in areas frequented by tourists, including areas with a heavy concentration of art galleries, the avenue where the performing arts center is located, etc.

How can I gauge the threat to my safety if I visit? Is there an objective (data-driven) source of recent street crime statistics for major American cities?

Canopus
Why not name the city so that some helpful locals can chime in?
This is a typical BH thread ... First: Someone asks a ludicrously broad question that contains absolutely no needed information so that it's impossible to make an intelligent response. Second: The thread will continue for 3 pages with respondents answering in kind.

I'm always astonished for such a heavily moderated group as BHs that these sorts of thread aren't terminated also. Oh well, just as long as we're not discussing crypto, it's all good. :D
The Chicago Trib. maintains a detailed data base with all the murders and violent crimes in Chicago by exact location, type of attack, time of the attack and arrest. It is eye opening data base. They also give you a map where these crimes take place. I believe this will answer most data driven questions you may have about Chicago’s safety.
I think there is also something called Citizens App, but I never used it.
Yeah never heard of it. Then again, I would avoid Chicago irrespective of what the data said.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Bleck »

Kellerreiss wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:46 am Yes, we downtown residents of Chicago are experiencing far more street-crime and violent crime episodes than two years ago.

We live in Streeterville, north of Chicago River, east of Michigan Ave, in downtown area, very near Navy Pier and Northwestern Hospital. We're long-time downtown residents who work downtown, who only two years ago frequently travelled all over Chicago without much concern about personal safety. So I'm that local resident who can directly speak on this topic. Street-crime is out of control in downtown Chicago, including the Loop business district, the Art Institute/Millennium Park tourist areas, Michigan Ave/Oak Street/State Street/Rush Street retail corridors, River North area which contains lots of bars and restaurants, Lincoln Park and lakefront, etc. Don't rely on blandishments that "everything is fine in Chicago". Nope, it's certainly not.

Normal pedestrian street-activity is still dramatically reduced in downtown areas. Tourists overall are now scarcely seen, while conventioneers and international travelers are near non-existent. Hotels are relying on "room-partiers" to boost their extremely low occupancy-rates, so choose your hotel wisely. Don't pick a hotel in River North, or the "good deal" hotel; rely on expensive hotel with a "dowager" reputation. When picking a restaurant to dine-out, remember to bring your mask, your vaccination card if need be (check beforehand), and uber/cab to/from restaurant. AVOID River North bars and restaurants at night. Don't be in Loop at night. Generally-speaking, AVOID CTA subway-system Red Lines, never use subway at night after rush-hour commuter-traffic ends (7 pm), and always be prepared to be grossed-out.

There's excellent local blog-site on Chicago street-crime, called CWB blog. Be sure to Google it, and read at least two weeks past postings. Be prepared for unpredictable street situations. Car-jackings now occur far too often even in broad daylight in downtown areas, and other formerly "safe" otherwise-upscale neighborhoods; ditto day-time street-muggings and "apple (phone) pickings". When walking about in downtown and tourist areas, dress down, wear shoes you can walk-run in, skip the purse, don't use your cell-phone, avoid groups of "rowdy-behaving teens". Be willing to give yourself (not other folks) benefit of doubt.
Wow. Have lived in the city and worked in the loop for 25 years and have raised my kids here. Brown and Redline rider mostly. You are seeing a totally different world than I am. Have you changed the news and opinion sources you regularly access since the beginning of the pandemic? Michigan avenue and west loop is thriving (and was thriving this weekend). 1,000s of fans from Madison, South Bend and, ugh, St. Louis all over downtown early and late. My high school kid walks the 12 block home from school everyday. Grad school relatives take pub transportation to and from UChicago all the time. Two weekends ago spent two nights at Pitchfork and walked to parking by the United Center later at night after the last show. Last weekend wedding at a loop hotel. All in all, downtown Chicago is much more pleasant and the commercial district is much larger than it was 15+ years ago. As someone said above, ask McDonalds and Google who have made that determination too. Just look at all the new top tier hotels opening up too. Hoxton, St. Regis, Pendry, Nobu …

There has been an increase in some violent crime and some property crime (arson and auto theft) during COVID largely in the gang and drug corridors, but violent crime in Chicago between 2000 and 2020 fell by about half. Yep. I encouraged anyone to look at how much crime has fallen in the big Cities including Chicago over the past 30 years or last 15 years. [Political comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] For example, property crime in Chicago fell by almost 26% from 2019 to 2020 and all crime fell by almost 20% from 2019 to 2020. Never would hear that on most National news outlets. (Violent crime was unfortunately up by nine basis points).

Only things I can agree on is that the Redline can often be gross and yes, bring a mask.

Edit: to add this link which shows the data since 2017 including 2021: https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-conte ... eek-38.pdf

Summary: crime is down in Chicago 28% since 2017.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Cruise wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:16 pm OP: When visiting a new city, we take one or more of the following safety steps:

1. Hire a guide. They will know where not to go.

2. Seek out the director of security at the hotel where you are staying. They know where it is risky vs safe.

3. Talk to the bell desk or concierge desk.

So far, so good.
This is great advice.
20 years ago, we'd go out in SF and come back in the wee hours through the tenderloin district. Very colorful if anyone knows that area.

I am now afraid to walk thru the same neighborhood during the day. Small part of this is a likely (perceived?) Increase in SF crime. A bigger factor must be me getting older and less risk averse. (Perhaps less stupid!).

There are certain streets around SF Market Street (6th? 7th?) I avoid altogether. I'd hope hotel staff would share tips if asked for advice on streets to avoid...

I say this often, without much data to back it up, but I'd feel safer in most Asian cities late at night than US cities (extreme example, Tokyo or Singapore vs SF).

Happy Travelling!!
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by fyre4ce »

Get some deep dish pizza while you're there. I recommend Giordano's.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by poker27 »

OP, Chicago resident here (near north side). If you knew how often I leave my house keys in a street facing front door with no issues, you wouldn’t be asking this question.

Great city, I highly recommend you also get out of the downtown area and explore a bit.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by SnoopisTDI »

Bleck wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:05 am
Kellerreiss wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:46 am Yes, we downtown residents of Chicago are experiencing far more street-crime and violent crime episodes than two years ago.

We live in Streeterville, north of Chicago River, east of Michigan Ave, in downtown area, very near Navy Pier and Northwestern Hospital. We're long-time downtown residents who work downtown, who only two years ago frequently travelled all over Chicago without much concern about personal safety. So I'm that local resident who can directly speak on this topic. Street-crime is out of control in downtown Chicago, including the Loop business district, the Art Institute/Millennium Park tourist areas, Michigan Ave/Oak Street/State Street/Rush Street retail corridors, River North area which contains lots of bars and restaurants, Lincoln Park and lakefront, etc. Don't rely on blandishments that "everything is fine in Chicago". Nope, it's certainly not.

Normal pedestrian street-activity is still dramatically reduced in downtown areas. Tourists overall are now scarcely seen, while conventioneers and international travelers are near non-existent. Hotels are relying on "room-partiers" to boost their extremely low occupancy-rates, so choose your hotel wisely. Don't pick a hotel in River North, or the "good deal" hotel; rely on expensive hotel with a "dowager" reputation. When picking a restaurant to dine-out, remember to bring your mask, your vaccination card if need be (check beforehand), and uber/cab to/from restaurant. AVOID River North bars and restaurants at night. Don't be in Loop at night. Generally-speaking, AVOID CTA subway-system Red Lines, never use subway at night after rush-hour commuter-traffic ends (7 pm), and always be prepared to be grossed-out.

There's excellent local blog-site on Chicago street-crime, called CWB blog. Be sure to Google it, and read at least two weeks past postings. Be prepared for unpredictable street situations. Car-jackings now occur far too often even in broad daylight in downtown areas, and other formerly "safe" otherwise-upscale neighborhoods; ditto day-time street-muggings and "apple (phone) pickings". When walking about in downtown and tourist areas, dress down, wear shoes you can walk-run in, skip the purse, don't use your cell-phone, avoid groups of "rowdy-behaving teens". Be willing to give yourself (not other folks) benefit of doubt.
Wow. Have lived in the city and worked in the loop for 25 years and have raised my kids here. Brown and Redline rider mostly. You are seeing a totally different world than I am. Have you changed the news and opinion sources you regularly access since the beginning of the pandemic? Michigan avenue and west loop is thriving (and was thriving this weekend). 1,000s of fans from Madison, South Bend and, ugh, St. Louis all over downtown early and late. My high school kid walks the 12 block home from school everyday. Grad school relatives take pub transportation to and from UChicago all the time. Two weekends ago spent two nights at Pitchfork and walked to parking by the United Center later at night after the last show. Last weekend wedding at a loop hotel. All in all, downtown Chicago is much more pleasant and the commercial district is much larger than it was 15+ years ago. As someone said above, ask McDonalds and Google who have made that determination too. Just look at all the new top tier hotels opening up too. Hoxton, St. Regis, Pendry, Nobu …

There has been an increase in some violent crime and some property crime (arson and auto theft) during COVID largely in the gang and drug corridors, but violent crime in Chicago between 2000 and 2020 fell by about half. Yep. I encouraged anyone to look at how much crime has fallen in the big Cities including Chicago over the past 30 years or last 15 years. [Political comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] For example, property crime in Chicago fell by almost 26% from 2019 to 2020 and all crime fell by almost 20% from 2019 to 2020. Never would hear that on most National news outlets. (Violent crime was unfortunately up by nine basis points).

Only things I can agree on is that the Redline can often be gross and yes, bring a mask.

Edit: to add this link which shows the data since 2017 including 2021: https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-conte ... eek-38.pdf

Summary: crime is down in Chicago 28% since 2017.
A quick perusal of CWB (mentioned by Kellerreiss above) indicates shootings in River North for 2021 are as much as 2013-2020 combined, robberies in River North are up 46% from last year and higher than any year 2001-2016 (but admittedly lower than 2017-2019), the Loop had 3 people shot in 2019 (two of which were self defense) compared to 25 so far this year, and Wicker Park has 32 carjackings so far compared to 6 by September 2019, with Lincoln Park carjackings up 100% from 2019. Relying on the city-wide statistics you posted, and dismissing crime as a problem of "gang and drug corridors" might be a costly mistake.

I no longer live in the Chicago area, but I still have friends and family in the suburbs and they tell me things got much worse (both city and suburbia) in 2020. I don't know about Chicago specifically, but many large cities have reclassified low-level and non-violent crimes, which leads to changes in statistics but not actual crime. In addition to that, many cities have made various reforms to bail policies. Criminals spend less time behind bars, which leads to reduced policing, which leads to reduced reporting. Reduced crime on paper, more victims on the street. I'm reminded of several years ago when I was researching crime in the UK, and found a large disparity between police statistics and independent crime survey results. I looked for a similar survey for Chicago, but didn't find anything.

Parting thought on the murder rate, hopefully not straying too far from the topic - I once saw it posited (but not proven) that the decreasing murder rate throughout the US since the 90s was due moreso to faster emergency response and improved medical care, rather than an actual reduction in violence. Which has me wondering if what we've seen the last couple years is a reduction in care, or an increase in violence, or some combination of the two.

ETA: As far as gauging risk, I still think you're mostly safe by following recommendations that have already been mentioned. Be selective about where you go, keep your head on a swivel, don't look like a victim, etc.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by JackoC »

SnoopisTDI wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:47 am
Bleck wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:05 am
Kellerreiss wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:46 am Yes, we downtown residents of Chicago are experiencing far more street-crime and violent crime episodes than two years ago.

We live in Streeterville, north of Chicago River, east of Michigan Ave, in downtown area, very near Navy Pier and Northwestern Hospital. We're long-time downtown residents who work downtown, who only two years ago frequently travelled all over Chicago without much concern about personal safety. So I'm that local resident who can directly speak on this topic. Street-crime is out of control in downtown Chicago, including the Loop business district, the Art Institute/Millennium Park tourist areas, Michigan Ave/Oak Street/State Street/Rush Street retail corridors, River North area which contains lots of bars and restaurants, Lincoln Park and lakefront, etc. Don't rely on blandishments that "everything is fine in Chicago". Nope, it's certainly not.
Wow. Have lived in the city and worked in the loop for 25 years and have raised my kids here. Brown and Redline rider mostly. You are seeing a totally different world than I am. Have you changed the news and opinion sources you regularly access since the beginning of the pandemic? Michigan avenue and west loop is thriving (and was thriving this weekend). ...[Political comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] For example, property crime in Chicago fell by almost 26% from 2019 to 2020 and all crime fell by almost 20% from 2019 to 2020. Never would hear that on most National news outlets. (Violent crime was unfortunately up by nine basis points).]

Summary: crime is down in Chicago 28% since 2017.
A quick perusal of CWB (mentioned by Kellerreiss above) indicates shootings in River North for 2021 are as much as 2013-2020 combined, robberies in River North are up 46% from last year and higher than any year 2001-2016 (but admittedly lower than 2017-2019), the Loop had 3 people shot in 2019 (two of which were self defense) compared to 25 so far this year, and Wicker Park has 32 carjackings so far compared to 6 by September 2019, with Lincoln Park carjackings up 100% from 2019. Relying on the city-wide statistics you posted, and dismissing crime as a problem of "gang and drug corridors" might be a costly mistake.

I no longer live in the Chicago area, but I still have friends and family in the suburbs and they tell me things got much worse (both city and suburbia) in 2020. I don't know about Chicago specifically, but many large cities have reclassified low-level and non-violent crimes, which leads to changes in statistics but not actual crime. In addition to that, many cities have made various reforms to bail policies. Criminals spend less time behind bars, which leads to reduced policing, which leads to reduced reporting. Reduced crime on paper, more victims on the street. I'm reminded of several years ago when I was researching crime in the UK, and found a large disparity between police statistics and independent crime survey results. I looked for a similar survey for Chicago, but didn't find anything.
I live in the inner NY area. It's generally much safer per stats than Chicago and I perceive very little risk of being a victim of crime, especially violent crime (the natural priority) where I've lived for over 30 yrs, in NJ but less than a mile from Manhattan, IOW much closer to central districts of Manhattan than the statistically high crime areas of the City mainly now in southeast Brooklyn though some other pockets, but generally also further from Midtown or Downtown than we are.

With that preamble, it's really hard for an outside to judge among conflicting 'first hand' reports from elsewhere. The second poster basically accuses the first of getting their impression from biased news sources though first specifically said they live there too. Also, mentioning a specific politician's name in the second post creates some doubt the second poster is actually the one looking at this non-politically.

Then on third response I agree that changing patterns of reporting of crimes, especially ones less likely to be reported generally, give me very little comfort from proclamations that 'debunk' documented increases in serious crimes not by actually showing they are false, but broadening it to 'crime overall has declined'. But reporting of more minor and numerous crimes could drop enough, when people are getting really worried about the serious ones and because the police are pulling back, but still under intense pressure to come up with stats showing progress (and it's harder to 'reinterpret' homicide), to give the opposite impression to reality.

It is true that crime in most big US cities, all categories is lower than peaks in the 1990's. But in Chicago murder in 2020 was close enough to 1990's peaks that a factor like more shooting victims surviving their wounds than years ago might actually flip the picture around to worst ever. In places where murder declined 80 or 90% from 1990's peak the basic story would not be changed by that, though recent figures would still be less flattering.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by airborne »

Kellerreiss wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:46 am Yes, we downtown residents of Chicago are experiencing far more street-crime and violent crime episodes than two years ago.

We live in Streeterville, north of Chicago River, east of Michigan Ave, in downtown area, very near Navy Pier and Northwestern Hospital. We're long-time downtown residents who work downtown, who only two years ago frequently travelled all over Chicago without much concern about personal safety. So I'm that local resident who can directly speak on this topic. Street-crime is out of control in downtown Chicago, including the Loop business district, the Art Institute/Millennium Park tourist areas, Michigan Ave/Oak Street/State Street/Rush Street retail corridors, River North area which contains lots of bars and restaurants, Lincoln Park and lakefront, etc. Don't rely on blandishments that "everything is fine in Chicago". Nope, it's certainly not.

Normal pedestrian street-activity is still dramatically reduced in downtown areas. Tourists overall are now scarcely seen, while conventioneers and international travelers are near non-existent. Hotels are relying on "room-partiers" to boost their extremely low occupancy-rates, so choose your hotel wisely. Don't pick a hotel in River North, or the "good deal" hotel; rely on expensive hotel with a "dowager" reputation. When picking a restaurant to dine-out, remember to bring your mask, your vaccination card if need be (check beforehand), and uber/cab to/from restaurant. AVOID River North bars and restaurants at night. Don't be in Loop at night. Generally-speaking, AVOID CTA subway-system Red Lines, never use subway at night after rush-hour commuter-traffic ends (7 pm), and always be prepared to be grossed-out.

There's excellent local blog-site on Chicago street-crime, called CWB blog. Be sure to Google it, and read at least two weeks past postings. Be prepared for unpredictable street situations. Car-jackings now occur far too often even in broad daylight in downtown areas, and other formerly "safe" otherwise-upscale neighborhoods; ditto day-time street-muggings and "apple (phone) pickings". When walking about in downtown and tourist areas, dress down, wear shoes you can walk-run in, skip the purse, don't use your cell-phone, avoid groups of "rowdy-behaving teens". Be willing to give yourself (not other folks) benefit of doubt.
+1 (Also +1 on CWB, it's near-daily reading for me.)

Streeterville resident here as well, and the above post is pretty much spot on.

OP: Chicago is a wonderful city and definitely worth visiting, but street crime has exploded the past 18 months. Shootings are generally not random, and tourists getting wrapped up in them is very uncommon. I have a few additional suggestions for your visit that will hopefully help you avoid those situations and enjoy your visit with less anxiety.

-- Hotels: avoid the Loop (south of the river). It can be seedy during the day and clears out quite a bit after ~5pm and becomes unsafe. Stay along the river (within a block north/south), along Michigan Avenue, east of Michigan Avenue toward the lakeshore, or in Gold Coast. If going to the Loop after dark I'd recommend an Uber/taxi.

--After dark: avoid the Hubbard Street nightlife district, especially State Street in that vicinity. This is the crime epicenter of River North after dark. Chicago Avenue also gets seedy.

--Red flags: large groups of teens on blue Divvy (rental) bikes, especially those who appear to be loitering; any large groups of teens for that matter. Most of the random street crime seems to be committed by the under-20 set, but that could just be my perception.

Feel free to direct more specific questions in a DM and enjoy your visit!
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Alex Frakt »

SnoopisTDI wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:47 am A quick perusal of CWB (mentioned by Kellerreiss above) indicates shootings in River North for 2021 are as much as 2013-2020 combined, robberies in River North are up 46% from last year and higher than any year 2001-2016 (but admittedly lower than 2017-2019), the Loop had 3 people shot in 2019 (two of which were self defense) compared to 25 so far this year, and Wicker Park has 32 carjackings so far compared to 6 by September 2019, with Lincoln Park carjackings up 100% from 2019. Relying on the city-wide statistics you posted, and dismissing crime as a problem of "gang and drug corridors" might be a costly mistake.
This appears to be data cherrypicking. That increase in robbery was almost entirely due to one very strange night of social-media organized looting along the Mag Mile after sparked by a police shooting in August of 2020. https://www.npr.org/2020/08/10/90080582 ... g-violence . The Loop covers a large area, the part that the OP asked about, along Michigan Avenue where the Art Institute and Symphony are located, is entirely safe 24 hours a day. The OP did not ask Lincoln Park or Wicker Park, not sure why these were mentioned. Finally while the CWB started out to highlight underreported crime in one section of Chicago (not the ones under discussion), it has evolved into a business that relies on people being scared enough to subscribe for their "exclusive reports" on crime.

Back to the areas that the OP asked about for their hotel and dining: River North and the West Loop. Both are safe. They have large residential populations - mostly young professionals in the West Loop and a mix of young and middle aged professionals in River North - and the dining and amenities that go with them. River North was redeveloped (gentrified) earlier and due to its literally being across the river from the primary office section of the Loop, this is where the hotels are located.

The one caveat is I would avoid going out after midnight in River North. In the last few years, a small section of River North has turned into a nightlife destination for the city and for visiting tourists, meaning lots of bars. Late at night you get all the expected problems from young, drunk people milling around. Most of it is self-inflicted, but there are some criminals who come out to prey on them.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by cbs2002 »

Alex Frakt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:58 pm
This appears to be data cherrypicking. That increase in robbery was almost entirely due to one very strange night of social-media organized looting along the Mag Mile after sparked by a police shooting in August of 2020. https://www.npr.org/2020/08/10/90080582 ... g-violence . The Loop covers a large area, the part that the OP asked about, along Michigan Avenue where the Art Institute and Symphony are located, is entirely safe 24 hours a day. The OP did not ask Lincoln Park or Wicker Park, not sure why these were mentioned. Finally while the CWB started out to highlight underreported crime in one section of Chicago (not the ones under discussion), it has evolved into a business that relies on people being scared enough to subscribe for their "exclusive reports" on crime.
I was going to post something similar but you beat me to it. One of the posters above has one post on this forum, in this discussion. That poster invoked an approximately 4x2 mile area where "street crime" is "out of control" which is hyperbolic to put it diplomatically.

Keep your head up and be street smart as you would anywhere else, and have a good time.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by JackoC »

cbs2002 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:30 pm
Alex Frakt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:58 pm
This appears to be data cherrypicking. That increase in robbery was almost entirely due to one very strange night of social-media organized looting along the Mag Mile after sparked by a police shooting in August of 2020. https://www.npr.org/2020/08/10/90080582 ... g-violence . The Loop covers a large area, the part that the OP asked about, along Michigan Avenue where the Art Institute and Symphony are located, is entirely safe 24 hours a day. The OP did not ask Lincoln Park or Wicker Park, not sure why these were mentioned. Finally while the CWB started out to highlight underreported crime in one section of Chicago (not the ones under discussion), it has evolved into a business that relies on people being scared enough to subscribe for their "exclusive reports" on crime.
I was going to post something similar but you beat me to it. One of the posters above has one post on this forum, in this discussion. That poster invoked an approximately 4x2 mile area where "street crime" is "out of control" which is hyperbolic to put it diplomatically.

Keep your head up and be street smart as you would anywhere else, and have a good time.
And the most strongly termed response to the 1 post poster was by a 4 post poster. :happy I'll leave it to Chicagoans to hash it out but one reality is that almost everything, certainly something like this, is political now in US society. Telling people they can't be 'political' on the forum is fine and I understand the motive, but that doesn't mean it doesn't soak through. And the 'objective reality' is actually really hard to nail down, to the point of not practically existing IMO when put in terms of 'gauging risk to personal safety'. I mean there could be a factual discussion what's the actual statistic for this crime category or that crime category, but it doesn't directly translate into an objective answer to the question. And even on the stats, again speaking of the NY context I know better, the police were at one time positively encouraged to strictly enforce against certain minor crimes, and now essentially encouraged to ignore them even when committed right in front of them. So what does a statistical decline in 'overall crime' including those once numerous but reported minor categories actually mean? The City isn't directly and immediately more 'dangerous' because the police ignore eg. turnstyle jumpers, but not directly and immediately more safe either. And again the knock on effects of those changes in policy which might be significant, either way, are inevitably viewed through a political lens. It's just make believe to have a discussion where everyone says they are 'leaving their politics at the door', no they're not. Same goes for 'cherry picking': I'm pretty unconvinced crime sprees like that are irrelevant to me as potential visitor to Chicago and don't see why they would be irrelevant. There are always other places to go, and as NY'er I have a typical view of Chicago that's...one NY'ers often have. The % chance of a tourist being victimized in the main part of any city in the US is going to be quite small. It's about what risk you think is worth it when you can just go somewhere else. It's not something you can 'prove' anything about.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by crefwatch »

A lot of people worry about the wrong thing. When you live in the suburbs, you think about crime in the city but ignore (perhaps) making a contract with your child to never have more than one friend in the car when he is driving - a peer-reviewed cause of more accidents. Or you buy him a used SUV to "protect him" while it actually has a higher center of gravity and a more powerful engine than the Corolla you should have given him. No one wants to recognize how deadly it is to drive a car, and everyone believes their high skill level will allow them to protect themselves and their family while conducting them from garage to mall. Not so.

I grew up in NYC 1951-1972 (college graduation date) and have spent vast amounts of time there since then. American cities are simply not that dangerous, including Chicago, which I've been to three times. Murder by a stranger is relatively uncommon. But there is no way to convince someone who reads the papers and watches network news.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Random Musings »

Was in Chicago three years ago, had a great time. Now, as the goal posts are being moved with respect to how certain crimes are being recognized, not sure if they are (or will) move the goal posts with respect to how victims will be treated. I'll take a hard pass on putting my money into cities where leadership is softening up their stance on crime. Perhaps, like inflation, the case will be made that this will be transitory, but I'll take the wager that this is not the case. I can't condone leadership who has dropped the ball with respect to trying to protect ALL of it's citizens.

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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Atilla »

The Chicago Sun Times has a Homicide Tracker. Oh yes they do!

Location of the crime broken down by neighborhood, whether stabbing or shooting and breakdown of sex/ethnicity/age of every victim along with a quick obituary. It's quite interesting to say the least:

https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/

A data-based way to gauge the relative safety of any particular part of town...
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by squirm »

Was in Chicago a few years ago. Had a rental car, was hit from behind pretty hard. Girl driver pulled over and then sped off, I'm sure it was a setup. Had to wait hours in the ghetto for the cops, but they never came of course. Totally felt unsafe... What a waste.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Alex Frakt »

It's 12:42am. I'm writing this as I'm walking my dog in Lakeshore East Park in downtown Chicago. The loudest sounds are crickets and sprinklers.

The city goes out of its way to make sure the central business district and tourist areas are as safe as possible. Yes, Chicago has a horrible problem with a seemingly endless cycle of drug and gang fueled and funded violence leading to retribution violence. But it rarely involves strangers to that life, with the tragic but thankfully rare exception of innocents hit by stray bullets, and is very much limited to certain sections of the city that tourists (and most residents) are simply not going to wander into.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Bleck »

JackoC wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:52 pm
cbs2002 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:30 pm
Alex Frakt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:58 pm
This appears to be data cherrypicking. That increase in robbery was almost entirely due to one very strange night of social-media organized looting along the Mag Mile after sparked by a police shooting in August of 2020. https://www.npr.org/2020/08/10/90080582 ... g-violence . The Loop covers a large area, the part that the OP asked about, along Michigan Avenue where the Art Institute and Symphony are located, is entirely safe 24 hours a day. The OP did not ask Lincoln Park or Wicker Park, not sure why these were mentioned. Finally while the CWB started out to highlight underreported crime in one section of Chicago (not the ones under discussion), it has evolved into a business that relies on people being scared enough to subscribe for their "exclusive reports" on crime.
I was going to post something similar but you beat me to it. One of the posters above has one post on this forum, in this discussion. That poster invoked an approximately 4x2 mile area where "street crime" is "out of control" which is hyperbolic to put it diplomatically.

Keep your head up and be street smart as you would anywhere else, and have a good time.
And the most strongly termed response to the 1 post poster was by a 4 post poster. :happy I'll leave it to Chicagoans to hash it out but one reality is that almost everything, certainly something like this, is political now in US society. Telling people they can't be 'political' on the forum is fine and I understand the motive, but that doesn't mean it doesn't soak through. And the 'objective reality' is actually really hard to nail down, to the point of not practically existing IMO when put in terms of 'gauging risk to personal safety'. I mean there could be a factual discussion what's the actual statistic for this crime category or that crime category, but it doesn't directly translate into an objective answer to the question. And even on the stats, again speaking of the NY context I know better, the police were at one time positively encouraged to strictly enforce against certain minor crimes, and now essentially encouraged to ignore them even when committed right in front of them. So what does a statistical decline in 'overall crime' including those once numerous but reported minor categories actually mean? The City isn't directly and immediately more 'dangerous' because the police ignore eg. turnstyle jumpers, but not directly and immediately more safe either. And again the knock on effects of those changes in policy which might be significant, either way, are inevitably viewed through a political lens. It's just make believe to have a discussion where everyone says they are 'leaving their politics at the door', no they're not. Same goes for 'cherry picking': I'm pretty unconvinced crime sprees like that are irrelevant to me as potential visitor to Chicago and don't see why they would be irrelevant. There are always other places to go, and as NY'er I have a typical view of Chicago that's...one NY'ers often have. The % chance of a tourist being victimized in the main part of any city in the US is going to be quite small. It's about what risk you think is worth it when you can just go somewhere else. It's not something you can 'prove' anything about.
I’m the 4 post poster. Everyday lurker here in these forums. Chicago = crime “out of control” strikes a nerve and prompted me to come out of my shell. You make excellent points that I’m constantly struggling with and I was continuing in that struggle when trying to objectively describe the crime situation in my adopted home. (Born and lived in Manhattan before). I didn’t do my best work.

At the end of the day, Chicago’s been a great place to live for 25+ years and raise a family and I have been lucky I guess to not have stuffed any incidents of crime in my time here despite parking on the street for 22 of those years. Visitors typically love it here and feel safe. They often remark about how clean the city is and how many trees there are. They also can’t believe how big Lake Michigan is!
muffins14
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by muffins14 »

I wonder if the OP survived the vacation. Perhaps we should send a search party
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airborne
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by airborne »

Alex Frakt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:58 pm
SnoopisTDI wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:47 am A quick perusal of CWB (mentioned by Kellerreiss above) indicates shootings in River North for 2021 are as much as 2013-2020 combined, robberies in River North are up 46% from last year and higher than any year 2001-2016 (but admittedly lower than 2017-2019), the Loop had 3 people shot in 2019 (two of which were self defense) compared to 25 so far this year, and Wicker Park has 32 carjackings so far compared to 6 by September 2019, with Lincoln Park carjackings up 100% from 2019. Relying on the city-wide statistics you posted, and dismissing crime as a problem of "gang and drug corridors" might be a costly mistake.
This appears to be data cherrypicking. That increase in robbery was almost entirely due to one very strange night of social-media organized looting along the Mag Mile after sparked by a police shooting in August of 2020.
I won't get into an argument about data cherry-picking or the statistics involved because it seems your mind is made up, but how do you argue with the fact that there have been more shootings in River North so far this year than in the past eight years combined?! It must be data cherry-picking? The Loop had three shootings in 2019; there have been 25 so far this year.

This is not twisting statistics to fit a narrative. As someone who has lived in River North/Streeterville for the past decade I can say without hesitation street crime has exploded in the past 18 months and the incident counts back up my assertion. It is very real and has some very clear causal factors, but in the interest of remaining actionable and avoiding political discussions I will refrain from discussing them.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Alex Frakt »

airborne wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:59 amI won't get into an argument about data cherry-picking or the statistics involved because it seems your mind is made up, but how do you argue with the fact that there have been more shootings in River North so far this year than in the past eight years combined?! It must be data cherry-picking? The Loop had three shootings in 2019; there have been 25 so far this year.

This is not twisting statistics to fit a narrative. As someone who has lived in River North/Streeterville for the past decade I can say without hesitation street crime has exploded in the past 18 months and the incident counts back up my assertion. It is very real and has some very clear causal factors, but in the interest of remaining actionable and avoiding political discussions I will refrain from discussing them.
Basing anything on the last 18 months is an exercise in futility. Have you looked at national statistics? For example, https://www.npr.org/2021/09/27/10409047 ... rease-2020 . "The number of murders in the United States jumped by nearly 30% in 2020 compared with the previous year in the largest single-year increase ever recorded in the country, according to official FBI statistics released Monday."

Tell me how this is all the mayor's fault.

I like the way xkcd put it:

Image
Capsu78
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Capsu78 »

Don't think this link was posted above- apologies if it was... This is the website that LEO insiders look at and cosider to be the must accurate.
Here are the data points:
https://heyjackass.com/

I am an hour by train from downtown. I have not been downtown in 22 months. Used to go there and overnite 3-4 times a year for concerts or sports events, but no more. Have a paramedic friend who works late shift in some of the craziest areas. He flat out said "Don't go downtown". The car jackings can occur any time, day or night, business day, in any neighborhood. The CPD has been demonized by the mayor and one wonders what the "risk aversion" factor of our fine LEO's is toward actually getting involved in an ongoing incident or mearly filling out the police report.

View from inside the CPD: https://www.chicagocontrarian.com/blog/ ... -residents

Sad to say this as I have been in Chicagoland for half my life and used to love showing it off to out of town guests. I felt safer in Israel a couple of years ago than I do in Chicago today.
Last edited by Capsu78 on Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
clip651
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by clip651 »

Agreed that 2020 and 2021 aren't normal years. What 2022 will bring remains to be seen.

But if one is thinking of traveling now, then how things have been going recently is very relevant. So if things are a lot worse at the moment (carjackings way up, for instance) then that's relevant to keep in mind for travel decisions and safety precautions.
Miles131
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Miles131 »

We have lived in the near West Loop area of Chicago for over 20 years without an incident. We usually walk to restaurants and entertainment. I recently saw that two men wear robbed leaving a bar less than a mile from us. It was around 130AM. One had $3,000 in cash and the other was working on his laptop in the bar. You should be free to do whatever you want, but I would advise against being out drinking in the AM hours, carrying large sums of cash, and using a laptop at 1130am.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by Orangutan »

Alex Frakt wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:39 pm
airborne wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:59 amI won't get into an argument about data cherry-picking or the statistics involved because it seems your mind is made up, but how do you argue with the fact that there have been more shootings in River North so far this year than in the past eight years combined?! It must be data cherry-picking? The Loop had three shootings in 2019; there have been 25 so far this year.

This is not twisting statistics to fit a narrative. As someone who has lived in River North/Streeterville for the past decade I can say without hesitation street crime has exploded in the past 18 months and the incident counts back up my assertion. It is very real and has some very clear causal factors, but in the interest of remaining actionable and avoiding political discussions I will refrain from discussing them.
Basing anything on the last 18 months is an exercise in futility. Have you looked at national statistics? For example, https://www.npr.org/2021/09/27/10409047 ... rease-2020 . "The number of murders in the United States jumped by nearly 30% in 2020 compared with the previous year in the largest single-year increase ever recorded in the country, according to official FBI statistics released Monday."

Tell me how this is all the mayor's fault.

I like the way xkcd put it:

Image
I don't think the data matters when it comes to one's personal safety. The data is the data, but at some point you have to trust your own experiences (and others who are raising the alarm).

The city has deteriorated in the past few years. And it is a safety risk.

I lived on the border of Gold Coast/River North towards the beginning of Covid and it felt like I was living in Mogadishu. During the first looting, I went to the lobby and sat with the doorman. A pickup truck with several armed men in masks in the bed pulled up and began looting every luxury boutique on the street right in front of us. I felt uneasy walking around downtown in the evenings up until I left for NYC earlier this year. It's not tangible data, but you could just feel things were unsafe.

I decided to move in with my girlfriend at the time who had recently bought a gorgeous place in Bucktown. On a street with million dollar condos, I was robbed and hit with a bat while on a nightly run.

A few days ago, I read that armed gang members have been going around the same area in Bucktown and have robbed several women. They make the women unlock their cell phones before taking them.

I continue to read about professionals with no gang affiliation being shot or beaten in River North/Loop/Gold Coast on a weekly basis.

With that said, Chicago is still one my favorite cities in the country and I would probably move back.
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by mrmass »

Don't wave your bedazzled iPhone 23 XR Supa Dupa Pro 8G while wandering around. On subways, try to board the first train. Don't stand to near the tracks at the station. Don't fumble with money, or even your wallet. Act like you been there...

Glance ahead a few blocks know whos around you. Know who's behind you or close to you. Be aware of your surroundings. Oh Navy Pier, not good food. Sorry Chi-Town.

MrMass :mrgreen:
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Re: Gauging Risk to Personal Safety While Traveling [Chicago]

Post by DrChronzworth »

airborne wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:35 am
--Red flags: large groups of teens on blue Divvy (rental) bikes, especially those who appear to be loitering; any large groups of teens for that matter. Most of the random street crime seems to be committed by the under-20 set, but that could just be my perception.

Feel free to direct more specific questions in a DM and enjoy your visit!
As a former Chicago resident I strongly strongly strongly recommend this advice. The stereotype of a lone mugger waiting in a dark alley to beat someone up is passé - you're much more likely to be mugged by a group of ten 14 year olds on bikes than you are by a lone adult with a gun based on my personal experience. If you see such a group, cross the street or move to another block. In general I would avoid any large group of people at night.

Otherwise you should be fine - I go downtown quite often at night and have no issues. The Red Line below the Loop is sketchy but I take it at night to the Northern suburbs and it's no issue.
Last edited by DrChronzworth on Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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