$85 for House Cleaner?

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prickly_comment
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$85 for House Cleaner?

Post by prickly_comment »

I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
stan1
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by stan1 »

Its a rather unique situation so hard to say. There's a fixed cost to showing up at the location, setting up supplies, etc. so you can't just go by square footage. I'd expect some cleaners would decline the job because it is so small and they could make more money with a bigger job. If you are happy with the job they do on cleaning it's probably in the ballpark of what others were charge especially since friends are paying $120 for the small apartment. The only way you'll really know is if you look for another bid.
Marseille07
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Marseille07 »

$85 seems reasonable to me. As another poster said, they have to show up with supplies so the pricing won't be linear with sqft.

House Cleaning is extremely reasonable in San Jose (I'm a former resident). I'm in PNW now, but I can't find cleaners charging less than $250. One cleaner quoted $900.
Normchad
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Normchad »

Seems reasonable to me as well. I would much rather pay $85 then doing it myself…..
DSInvestor
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by DSInvestor »

The traffic can be so bad that it could be hours in the car to get to the next appointment. I recall IT consultants in SF Bay Area charging 3-4 hour minimums for any office visit.
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neilpilot
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by neilpilot »

I’m trying to picture a 170 sq ft unit. Is it really 10’ x 17’??

late night math corrected -
Last edited by neilpilot on Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

neilpilot wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:28 pm I’m trying to picture a 170 sq ft unit. Is it really 10’ x 7’??
i think you mean 10 x 17?... 10x7 is 70 sq ft
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cchrissyy
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by cchrissyy »

i think it's a fine price.
you need to pay for taking up a time slot on their schedule and commute costs just as much as if you had a bigger house.
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Monsterflockster
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Monsterflockster »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
You don’t mention what’s involved here in regards to services. Dusting, vacuum, cleaning toilets, laundry, dishes, all influence time and price. Are you comparing prices for the exact same service and time spent cleaning?

I really hope you aren’t the millionaire Boglehead trying to save a few bucks by going cheap on the cleaning lady.
hi_there
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by hi_there »

You can probably find someone to do it for a lower price. Let's be generous and say the whole job including travel takes 2 hours. Will someone work for $42.50 an hour in San Jose, minus some cleaning supplies and gas? I would be surprised if the answer is no. Lots of people must commute through the area already, or clean nearby houses. So, for the right person, this is really probably a 30 minute job or less.

Is it worth it for you to negotiate a lower price? I don't know. Since the absolute number is already quite small, the savings will also be small.
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tetractys
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by tetractys »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
You should probably add at least a $15 tip.
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quantAndHold
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by quantAndHold »

It’s a weird job, and kind of hard to value. I mean, usually someone who’s living that small will usually clean it themselves. That said, it probably takes within a few minutes of he same amount of time to show up and clean as the 1 bedroom apartment. You have the same sinks and showers and toilet and floors to clean, it’s just that each of the floors and countertops are smaller, and in some ways more awkward to clean. Travel time is also going to be similar to any other place. A place like this would definitely bump up against whatever minimum they charge just to show up, but so would the one bedroom apartment.

Given what the comparable prices are, I think $85 seems reasonable. Trying to talk them down in price might get a lower price, but it might also end up like my neighbor who removed most of her grass, then browbeat the yard guy into only charging $20 per visit. Now she’s complaining because he only shows up when he feels like it.
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Padlin
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Padlin »

My wife charged a set rate for travel to/from a job, so distance comes into play. Then a time to clean estimate at whatever the $ per hr rate is. The time estimate had a lot to do with what the person wanted done, some wanted the laundry done, some the fridge or dishes. Weekly cleaning also came out cheaper on a per visit basis as the home would be cleaner when she would arrive, the monthly's can be pretty bad. Pets counted too. And then there are some folks that just want to talk the whole time, so a 1 hr job becomes 2.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

Two people I worked with after their retirement went to work as "cleaners." When I asked what was meant by that, I was told they work for a company which only cleans offices of attorneys and similar businesses where there is that type of sensitive information. The company is bonded and insured and each employee has had a criminal history run by state police and their driving record is checked periodically. For an hour's work $85 seems high, but not if there is that kind of overhead.
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JoeRetire
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by JoeRetire »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm Is $85 appropriate?
Can you find someone to do it cheaper?
How long does it take to clean?
Why don't you do it yourself?
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:42 am
prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm Is $85 appropriate?
Can you find someone to do it cheaper?
How long does it take to clean?
Why don't you do it yourself?
Do it yourself for a month and then ask yourself how much you’d pay to have someone else do it.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by jabberwockOG »

As others have posted there is a fixed cost component to any labor service delivered to your home. I'd guess half of the 85 is average travel time, transportation cost, and supplies. Finding a non-pro neighbor who is interested in making a few bucks might get it cleaned for $40-50 but may not be worth the trouble.
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JoeRetire
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by JoeRetire »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:07 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:42 am
prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm Is $85 appropriate?
Can you find someone to do it cheaper?
How long does it take to clean?
Why don't you do it yourself?
Do it yourself for a month and then ask yourself how much you’d pay to have someone else do it.
It's only once a month, so not very big of an investment/experiment.
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Ramjet
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Ramjet »

That's not much sq. ft., seems high, but it's not much money once a week
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by AlohaJoe »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm

Is $85 appropriate?
Are you able to find a cleaner who does it for less?

That's how you know if the price is appropriate or not. It is how markets work.
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sperry8
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by sperry8 »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
Seems high, but you're unlikely to get it sig lower (there is a point of diminishing returns for the cleaner). I've used a website called care.com before and it allowed me to find excellent inexpensive cleaners. They also have elder care, babysitters, etc. I think you can search for free - but may need to pay to contact. But at least you can peruse the hourly rates in your area to see if the $85 is reasonable.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:45 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:07 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:42 am
prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm Is $85 appropriate?
Can you find someone to do it cheaper?
How long does it take to clean?
Why don't you do it yourself?
Do it yourself for a month and then ask yourself how much you’d pay to have someone else do it.
It's only once a month, so not very big of an investment/experiment.
Reading incomprehension. I thought it said weekly, but I now see monthly. In that case, do it for a few months and see how much it’s worth. After a month, cleaning is a bigger job than after a week; I know that our cleaners charge more for less frequent cleanings.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Valuethinker »

hi_there wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:46 pm You can probably find someone to do it for a lower price. Let's be generous and say the whole job including travel takes 2 hours. Will someone work for $42.50 an hour in San Jose, minus some cleaning supplies and gas? I would be surprised if the answer is no. Lots of people must commute through the area already, or clean nearby houses. So, for the right person, this is really probably a 30 minute job or less.

Is it worth it for you to negotiate a lower price? I don't know. Since the absolute number is already quite small, the savings will also be small.
If it was a standalone job, in Silicon Valley, 2 hours seems like a lowball estimate? You have traffic congestion. You have parking.

Agree if you can get it cheaper, you should.

Living in another high cost area (London, UK) but having a somewhat larger house (not large by American standards) this didn't seem that unreasonable.
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JoeRetire
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by JoeRetire »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:00 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:45 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:07 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:42 am
prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm Is $85 appropriate?
Can you find someone to do it cheaper?
How long does it take to clean?
Why don't you do it yourself?
Do it yourself for a month and then ask yourself how much you’d pay to have someone else do it.
It's only once a month, so not very big of an investment/experiment.
Reading incomprehension. I thought it said weekly, but I now see monthly. In that case, do it for a few months and see how much it’s worth. After a month, cleaning is a bigger job than after a week; I know that our cleaners charge more for less frequent cleanings.
We still don't know the time and effort involved. It's a small space. But it's only once per month and scrubbing a bathroom, kitchen, etc could take time no matter how small.

If it takes 30 minutes, it might be expensive.
If it takes 4 hours, it might be cheap.

In my locale, we pay $25/hour for a fairly simple cleanup of our HOA's clubhouse. Some months it just takes 1 hour. Other months it takes 2 hours.
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snackdog
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by snackdog »

That sounds quite high. I pay $90 for a two bedroom. 1700 sq ft place in NorCal. That includes washing and changing sheets, towels, vacuuming, kitchen and baths.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

What if the cleaner broke down the costs like this:

Travel to and from your house: $20
Set up (bringing in all the things needed): $15
Break down (bringing out all the things needed): $15
Trash removal: $5
Supplies used: $10
Cleaning cost including FICA, income tax, insurance, 1 hour: $20
total $85


For your friends 30,000 sq foot mansion:

Travel to and from your house: $20
Set up (bringing in all the things needed): $15
Break down (bringing out all the things needed): $15
Trash removal: $10
Supplies used: $20
Cleaning cost including FICA, income tax, insurance, 10 hours: $200
total $280

You might think you're being ripped off because of the small square footage, but some of those costs are fixed regardless of the size. Maybe get a quote on getting not only the in law apartment done, but your entire house. The setup, take down and transport costs remain fixed, so you get a better bargain.

Years ago, I got a quote for a new 50 foot driveway paving at our starter house. It was quoted at $3500 at the time.

We moved to our present house a year later and the gravel driveway is 800 feet long. We really wanted to pave it as we were sick of cars sinking in the mud part way up the driveway. I thought it was going to cost 16 times the 50 foot price or $56,000! I decided to get a quote anyways, so I could justify getting a new load of gravel spread annually, forever. The quote came in at $10,000. I just stood there perplexed. I asked why. The paver explained that it cost them money to get all that big equipment to the site, and take all the equipment away. For a 50 foot driveway, they can do the actual work, complete in less than half a day. And they can't do another job because of the time it takes to get the equipment back to their facility. For my driveway, they bring the equipment, start the work, leave the equipment, come back the second day and finish the work and bring the equipment home. Travel was a big cost that didn't change for both jobs. I suspect the same is true for your cleaner.
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terran
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by terran »

If there's a bathroom and a kitchen, then the time it takes to clean probably isn't much different than a significantly larger 1 bed/1 bath as those are the high touch spaces to clean compared to a quick vacuum of living areas and bedrooms.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Trader Joe »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
$85 sounds more than reasonable. You are young. If I were you I would save the $85 and do it myself.

Then I would invest the $85 in VTSAX/VFIAX.
criticalmass
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by criticalmass »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
How messy is the house?
How long does it take to clean?
How many cleaners are needed?
How many supplies/$ are needed?
What travel times and costs are involved?
What alternative opportunities are available for the cleaners in lieu of cleaning your house?
What are market wages for cleaning services in your locality?
What government/insurance requirements do they need to pay for?
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Jazztonight
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Jazztonight »

Do they show up on time?
Do they do a good job?
Do they follow your instructions and try to keep the customer (you) pleased?

There's a saying in the music business: The client pays the musicians to load their gear in the car, drive to the gig, be on time, unpack their gear and set it up, dress and behave appropriately. At the end of the gig, they pack up their gear, drive home, and unload all the gear. The music itself is free.

We pay $120 for our 1400 sq.ft. apt. to be cleaned in Oakland. We've raised the rate voluntarily a couple of times. Good, dependable people are hard to find. And chances are your cleaning crew are not Bogleheads checking their balances on a regular basis. My observation is they often have 2 gigs just to keep afloat.
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quantAndHold
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by quantAndHold »

snackdog wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:11 am That sounds quite high. I pay $90 for a two bedroom. 1700 sq ft place in NorCal. That includes washing and changing sheets, towels, vacuuming, kitchen and baths.
You are getting a screaming deal. I was paying more than that 9 years ago when we let the cleaner go when my wife retired. Is this a situation where you’ve had the same person for a long time and you haven’t thought to give them a raise in all that time?
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ram
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by ram »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
Looks like the going rate is: Base charge $80 and 4 cents/sq foot.

170 sq ft = $80 + 6.80 = $86.80

1800 sq ft = $80 + 72 = 152.00

750 sq ft = $80 + 30 = 110.00

Many repairmen in my area charge a Base + xxx rate.

Also a person will likely make more mess/sq foot when living in 170 sq ft Vs 1700 sq ft.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by BolderBoy »

It is usually harder to clean the same space once/month than twice a month if they are doing a thorough job.

$85 sounds fine (if not a bit on the low side).
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soxfan10
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by soxfan10 »

A lot of the pricing of cleaning is to bring in volume (both job size and frequency) - comparing a small cleaning that isnt done frequently with a bi-weekly 2000 sq foot house isnt realistic. A once a month small job is going to command the highest rates as the ultimate annual gross is really low with only 12 cleanings. Pretty much any business works this way, the smallest volume gets the most expensive rates.

In my area, cleaners don't show up for anything less than $90-$100 no matter what the project is.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Dick D »

We pay $120 for cleaning a 2000 sq ft townhome, and they come every other week.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by lillycat »

N/A deleted since I’m not in Californa.
Last edited by lillycat on Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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quantAndHold
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by quantAndHold »

lillycat wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:33 pm Ola! We have a 3,000 square foot home with an additional 500 sq feet of tiled covered pavilion. It’s cleaned weekly, includes laundry, takes around 7.5 hours give or take. We pay $100, and $110 when I have my car cleaned. I have a home office and this is worth every Penny!
That’s less than minimum wage in California, which is where OP is asking about.

I assume you do withholding and pay payroll taxes and issue a W-2, like you’re legally required to do, right?
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by cabfranc »

It is probably the fixed costs of cleaning it.

Also, I'm not sure what the place is like, but my housekeeper told me that next to square footage, the #2 factor he considers in prices is how easy or difficult a place is to clean. He said if a place has a lot of clutter, nic nacs, etc., he is going to charge more other things being equal.
soxfan10
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by soxfan10 »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:00 pm
lillycat wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:33 pm Ola! We have a 3,000 square foot home with an additional 500 sq feet of tiled covered pavilion. It’s cleaned weekly, includes laundry, takes around 7.5 hours give or take. We pay $100, and $110 when I have my car cleaned. I have a home office and this is worth every Penny!
That’s less than minimum wage in California, which is where OP is asking about.

I assume you do withholding and pay payroll taxes and issue a W-2, like you’re legally required to do, right?
For a cleaning service? Absolutely not.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by hoops777 »

lillycat wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:33 pm Ola! We have a 3,000 square foot home with an additional 500 sq feet of tiled covered pavilion. It’s cleaned weekly, includes laundry, takes around 7.5 hours give or take. We pay $100, and $110 when I have my car cleaned. I have a home office and this is worth every Penny!
I hope you are tipping 50 bucks and paying for the cleaning supplies.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Godot »

lillycat wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:33 pm Ola! We have a 3,000 square foot home with an additional 500 sq feet of tiled covered pavilion. It’s cleaned weekly, includes laundry, takes around 7.5 hours give or take. We pay $100, and $110 when I have my car cleaned. I have a home office and this is worth every Penny!



In the U.S.?
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MikeWillRetire
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by MikeWillRetire »

That's a very small space. 10'x17'. It probably takes more time for the cleaning person to drive to the place than to clean it.
Figuring_it_out
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Figuring_it_out »

You're in San Jose (silicon valley). If the person is punctual and does a good job. I'm sure this is not a significant portion of your cash flow.
If you pay less you could get less as well. If you like details done (dust, streak free windows, all around the toilet not just the seat and rim) Those little details make the differences. Also someone you trust in your office of this is a long standing employee.
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by Pessimist55 »

Am also in sj. I recently paid 300 for move out cleaning for a 1100sqft condo and got ripped off the crew did a half ass job and left without allowing an inspection. Make sure you're there watching them like a hawk.
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quantAndHold
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by quantAndHold »

soxfan10 wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:36 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:00 pm
lillycat wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:33 pm Ola! We have a 3,000 square foot home with an additional 500 sq feet of tiled covered pavilion. It’s cleaned weekly, includes laundry, takes around 7.5 hours give or take. We pay $100, and $110 when I have my car cleaned. I have a home office and this is worth every Penny!
That’s less than minimum wage in California, which is where OP is asking about.

I assume you do withholding and pay payroll taxes and issue a W-2, like you’re legally required to do, right?
For a cleaning service? Absolutely not.
Then if you pay them more than $2300 per year like lillycat is, you’re committing a felony. You’re also cheating your employee out of Medicare, Social Security, and possibly unemployment insurance.

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p926
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by soxfan10 »

quantAndHold wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:37 pm
soxfan10 wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:36 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:00 pm
lillycat wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:33 pm Ola! We have a 3,000 square foot home with an additional 500 sq feet of tiled covered pavilion. It’s cleaned weekly, includes laundry, takes around 7.5 hours give or take. We pay $100, and $110 when I have my car cleaned. I have a home office and this is worth every Penny!
That’s less than minimum wage in California, which is where OP is asking about.

I assume you do withholding and pay payroll taxes and issue a W-2, like you’re legally required to do, right?
For a cleaning service? Absolutely not.
Then if you pay them more than $2300 per year like lillycat is, you’re committing a felony. You’re also cheating your employee out of Medicare, Social Security, and possibly unemployment insurance.

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p926
A cleaning service is not an employee. That whole publication is irrelevant. The IRS would never win an argument that a person who cleans 25 different houses a week is an employee. I pay my cleaners more than that threshold; theres no way in hell they are employees. They come every other week and clean for 2 hours on their time schedule with their cleaning supplies. Sure, if your the only person the person does work for, you'd have a problem, but you're still in a different galaxy from any sort of felony.

Edited to add: even your linked publication makes it clear that cleaning services are generally independent contractors:

Workers who aren't your employees. If only the worker can control how the work is done, the worker isn't your employee but is self-employed. A self-employed worker usually provides his or her own tools and offers services to the general public in an independent business.

Unless the poster is literally telling them when to show up, providing the supplies, and instructing on how to clean, they are clearly not employees. Id be shocked if thats how it works. If all it is is "show up and clean XYZ weekly" - that is very clearly not an employee.
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quantAndHold
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by quantAndHold »

soxfan10 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:06 am
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:37 pm
soxfan10 wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:36 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:00 pm
lillycat wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:33 pm Ola! We have a 3,000 square foot home with an additional 500 sq feet of tiled covered pavilion. It’s cleaned weekly, includes laundry, takes around 7.5 hours give or take. We pay $100, and $110 when I have my car cleaned. I have a home office and this is worth every Penny!
That’s less than minimum wage in California, which is where OP is asking about.

I assume you do withholding and pay payroll taxes and issue a W-2, like you’re legally required to do, right?
For a cleaning service? Absolutely not.
Then if you pay them more than $2300 per year like lillycat is, you’re committing a felony. You’re also cheating your employee out of Medicare, Social Security, and possibly unemployment insurance.

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p926
A cleaning service is not an employee. That whole publication is irrelevant. The IRS would never win an argument that a person who cleans 25 different houses a week is an employee. I pay my cleaners more than that threshold; theres no way in hell they are employees. They come every other week and clean for 2 hours on their time schedule with their cleaning supplies. Sure, if your the only person the person does work for, you'd have a problem, but you're still in a different galaxy from any sort of felony.

Edited to add: even your linked publication makes it clear that cleaning services are generally independent contractors:

Workers who aren't your employees. If only the worker can control how the work is done, the worker isn't your employee but is self-employed. A self-employed worker usually provides his or her own tools and offers services to the general public in an independent business.

Unless the poster is literally telling them when to show up, providing the supplies, and instructing on how to clean, they are clearly not employees. Id be shocked if thats how it works. If all it is is "show up and clean XYZ weekly" - that is very clearly not an employee.
You are correct for cleaning services like Merry Maids or something like that that have their own employees, pay their employee’s payroll taxes, and issue W-2’s. But lillycat is hiring an individual person to work inside her home, for what’s essentially a full day per week, paying approximately $5000 per year. The IRS nearly always considers people like that W-2 employees.

https://www.homeworksolutions.com/knowl ... ontractor/
Nannies, housekeepers and elder care givers privately paid directly by the family are almost always employees of the families they work for. Common law (not the tax code -or- your written work agreement) makes the determination of when an employer/employee relationship exists. Under common law, a worker who performs services for you is your employee if you can control the work schedule, what will be done and how it will be done. It does not matter whether you give your nanny or caregiver great latitude, but rather that you have the right to control the work. It does not matter if the work is performed on a full time or part time basis. It does not matter whether the worker lives with you or not. It does not matter if he/she is paid hourly, daily or a salary. It does not matter how the employee refers to herself or how you refer to him/her in an employment contract. The IRS articulates strict guidelines that differentiate employees and independent contractors to further eliminate confusion (Refer to IRS Publication 926). Nannies, elder care givers, maids, housekeepers and other domestics are generally considered employees. You are generally obligated for all payroll tax filings and remittances if you pay the worker $2,300 or more in the calendar year (2021).
MathWizard
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by MathWizard »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:07 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:42 am
prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm Is $85 appropriate?
Can you find someone to do it cheaper?
How long does it take to clean?
Why don't you do it yourself?
Do it yourself for a month and then ask yourself how much you’d pay to have someone else do it.
You beat me to it.
hoops777
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by hoops777 »

prickly_comment wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm I am in San Jose, CA. I hired an independent house cleaner known through a reference. I am paying them $85 to clean a 170 sq. ft in law unit once a month. In the same area, I know others who pay $150 every two weeks for a 1800 sq. ft home and another paying $120 per month for a 500 - 750 sq. ft apartment.

Is $85 appropriate?
After reading all the posts just pay the person. You live in the bay area not some low cost of living area.
Assuming they are doing a good job, pay.

Option two, do it yourself. Is it worth saving 85 bucks?
I didn’t think so.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
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JoeRetire
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Re: $85 for House Cleaner?

Post by JoeRetire »

Pessimist55 wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:53 pm Am also in sj. I recently paid 300 for move out cleaning for a 1100sqft condo and got ripped off the crew did a half ass job and left without allowing an inspection. Make sure you're there watching them like a hawk.
You paid ahead of time?
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