Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator... [Updated question October 2023]

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Ykcor
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator... [Updated question October 2023]

Post by Ykcor »

This thread has been reopened with a new related question, see later in thread.

Moderator Pops1860

30 year old Sub-Zero went out (at least the refrigerator side). Don't want to spent $1500 on a compressor which would take 4-6 months backorder. Also will take 4-6 months to get a new $10-12,000 Sub-Zero replacement. Any thoughts on the few other makers of 48 inch built in refrig-freezers like Cafe or GE monogram?
JTcheek
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by JTcheek »

I can’t speak to those brands, but I have a built in Viking, and I will be replacing it with another brand when it dies. Also, I really hate the idea of spending $10-$12K on a refrigerator but worry about how the space will look with a standard fridge, and how bad that will bug me.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Ykcor »

JTcheek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:02 pm I can’t speak to those brands, but I have a built in Viking, and I will be replacing it with another brand when it dies. Also, I really hate the idea of spending $10-$12K on a refrigerator but worry about how the space will look with a standard fridge, and how bad that will bug me.
Wouldn't bug me but would bug my wife and when wife not happy they no one is happy.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by quantAndHold »

You’re pretty much limited to what will fit in the space. If there’s actually something available with a shorter lead time that fits the space, I would just get it and not look back.

Otherwise, I would probably just get whatever regular fridge the appliance store can get out to your house this week, and order the one you like that will fit properly. Then when the built in one comes, sell your temporary fridge on Craigslist. Life is too short to not have a working fridge.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by HomeStretch »

Have you called the SubZero (SZ) Madison, WI service 800# to confirm the back order length of time for your part #? 800# Service rep was outstanding when I had an issue and expedited parts (pre-pandemic) that the large tech company in my area said weren’t readily available. I love my SubZero and wouldn’t willingly give it up. Plus I wouldn’t want to make cabinetry modifications and fabricate new custom panels.

Consider buying whatever economical model is available while you wait for the SZ replacement part or new SZ refrigerator. Then use the temporary fridge as a beverage/extras fridge somewhere in the house or sell it.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by mkc »

Ykcor wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:54 pm Any thoughts on the few other makers of 48 inch built in refrig-freezers like Cafe or GE monogram?
Absolutely, positively NO to Cafe or Monogram. If parts are (eventually) available, go for the repair. In the meantime, get a cheap fridge from HD or Lowes if you have a space to put it until the repair can be made.

We had a 2006-era Monogram that required either a new inverter board or a new main board every 18 months for 13 years (no cooling, and it would take about a week to get service each time). It was horribly variant in temperature. It was noisy. One of the service calls was for the icemaker suddenly deciding to dispense on its own with no one around it.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have sprung for the SubZero. So much more reliable.

Have friends with the 36" version of the Monogram - same thing for the inverter and main board. There are plenty of complaints on Houzz as well.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by chazas »

I have had both a 48" SubZero and a 48" Kitchenaid (2, actually). I preferred the Kitchenaid.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by LifeIsGood »

We just finished renting a beach house that had a brand new GE Monogram built-in refrigerator and I thought it was a piece of junk. No idea how much it cost but it was cheap in many respects.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by mortfree »

chazas wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:31 pm I have had both a 48" SubZero and a 48" Kitchenaid (2, actually). I preferred the Kitchenaid.
I have a built-in kitchenaid that came with the house.

How much are those to replace?
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Sandtrap »

Criteria

Must fit through the door
Must fit the space and look good
Must match the other appliances
Must be selected by spouse


Perhaps get a second generic frig/freezer for the garage while you are waiting.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Watty »

JTcheek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:02 pm Also, I really hate the idea of spending $10-$12K on a refrigerator but worry about how the space will look with a standard fridge, and how bad that will bug me.
If you buy a $2,000 refrigerator you can buy a lot of custom cabinet work for the remaining $8 -10K.

For example you could put an extra foot wide cabinet and wood panels on the front of the refrigerator and probably have lots of money left over.
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Sub-Zero

Post by Bogle7 »

I would never give up our Sub-Zero fridge.
Had one for 24 years in previous house.
Moved into new spec-built house without one. Drove me bonkers.
6 years in, gutted/renovated ½ the kitchen.
Now am happy with S-Z fridge and wine cooler.
Worth every bit of the $52K.
Last edited by Bogle7 on Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by scifilover »

Interesting timing for this thread. A buddy of mine has the exact same problem; old S-Z with the refer side compressor out. His S-Z repairman came out and said that the buddy should just get a new one....replacing the old compressor was a major disassembly and that act often caused other issues. However, new S-Z would be $16k and not available until December. He is thinking about Liebherr which makes a 24" counter-depth refer with bottom freezer. Turns out that you can use a pair of these to replace a S-Z for $5.5k. He would still need some cabinet work because of small differences on fit. Also, he needs another 110VAC 15Amp circuit. The Liebherr units are available within the month. Saving $10k is very motivating with the bonus of have a working refer by the end of Aug. He considered putting in a smaller refer and getting some cabinet work done to fill in the gaps....I advised that discerning home buyers in his home's price range looking at this in the future would know that there had been a S-Z there....

Buying a home with a gourmet kitchen is a personal preference item....but the act creates these future situations with expensive maintenance opportunities. :D
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by dbr »

Doesn't replacing a built-in appliance in a kitchen automatically require a complete kitchen remodel :annoyed

But seriously, we have never been able to find any kitchen appliance replacement that matched what was there before and did not require a greater or less rebuild of the cabinets and plumbing. We couldn't even have a new garbage disposal installed without paying an extra $75 to reconfigure the drains under the sink. To get the new stove top we wanted in I had to hire one of the guys who had originally done our kitchen to come out and do some custom woodwork to make it fit. The same people rebuilt the refrigerator surround when we replaced the refrigerator and same for the built in ovens. The whole stricture needed to be moved over 6". None of our appliances match any more and even SS in different finishes does not look the same. But that stuff is just too small to worry about anymore.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by keith6014 »

mkc wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:12 pm
Ykcor wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:54 pm Any thoughts on the few other makers of 48 inch built in refrig-freezers like Cafe or GE monogram?
Absolutely, positively NO to Cafe or Monogram. If parts are (eventually) available, go for the repair. In the meantime, get a cheap fridge from HD or Lowes if you have a space to put it until the repair can be made.

We had a 2006-era Monogram that required either a new inverter board or a new main board every 18 months for 13 years (no cooling, and it would take about a week to get service each time). It was horribly variant in temperature. It was noisy. One of the service calls was for the icemaker suddenly deciding to dispense on its own with no one around it.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have sprung for the SubZero. So much more reliable.

Have friends with the 36" version of the Monogram - same thing for the inverter and main board. There are plenty of complaints on Houzz as well.
Same issue with 2015 Mongram. Don't buy! The freezer dies every 6 - 12 months. Out of warranty. $200 per scheduled call. Will buy another freezer for downstairs and once this fridge dies. Good riddance. The worse company and service. Never again!
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Bogle7 »

dbr wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:44 amDoesn't replacing a built-in appliance in a kitchen automatically require a complete kitchen remodel
Not necessarily "complete". Sometimes just one large section.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Ykcor »

Sandtrap wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:29 am Criteria

Must fit through the door
Must fit the space and look good
Must match the other appliances
Must be selected by spouse


Perhaps get a second generic frig/freezer for the garage while you are waiting.
j🌺
Well the appliance store where I have done business for years are going to give me a loaner refrig until the SubZero replacement comes in. So all is good.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by goos_news »

Ykcor wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:21 pm snip
Well the appliance store where I have done business for years are going to give me a loaner refrig until the SubZero replacement comes in. So all is good.
That's great! Nothing like service that matches the premium pricing.

I was going to suggest Thermodor as an alternative. It is generally regarded as next best along with the Liebherr (but the Liebherrs are shorter, requiring a space filler)
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by baconavocado »

Like some of the other commenters, we like our SZ, although I admit it's definitely not the most energy efficient appliance on the planet. Ours gave us no problems for the first 20 years, then just before the pandemic we had to spend $2000 to replace the evaporative coil. We considered it money well spent.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by ZMonet »

Had a Viking 48"...Worst refrigerator ever. Amazing how something so large could hold so little! I really don't understand why these refrigerators go for so much money other than you are stuck if the space is already designed for 48" of cabinet depth.

Ultimately neither my wife nor I could justify $12k on a refrigerator so we bought a 36" cabinet-depth $3k Bosch and I made a surround that took up 6" on each side and a 48" box cabinet over the refrigerator. Now it all still looks custom, the Bosch is the best refrigerator I've owned, my wife got extra cabinet space, and when the Bosch dies I'll be happy to shell out $3k for another refrigerator.

As another poster said, if you don't want to do the cabinetry work yourself, see how much it costs to hire someone. A lot more refrigerator options are available at the cabinet-depth 36" than at 48" built-in and I'd be surprised if the actual usable space is all that much different.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by chazas »

mortfree wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:25 am
chazas wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:31 pm I have had both a 48" SubZero and a 48" Kitchenaid (2, actually). I preferred the Kitchenaid.
I have a built-in kitchenaid that came with the house.

How much are those to replace?
Haven't checked since we sold that house. At the time SZ was about $12K, list of KitchenAid was about $9500 and you could get one from Whirlpool InsidePass for about $7000. I’m sure those are very outdated prices.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by ZMonet »

a 48" Kitchen-Aid has a MSRP of about $11k.

Good luck getting someone to haul the old 48" away if you don't replace with another 48".
Last edited by ZMonet on Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by grok87 »

chazas wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:31 pm I have had both a 48" SubZero and a 48" Kitchenaid (2, actually). I preferred the Kitchenaid.
we just got a built in kitchenaid. had to wait over 6 months. but happy so far...
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Wannaretireearly »

JTcheek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:02 pm I can’t speak to those brands, but I have a built in Viking, and I will be replacing it with another brand when it dies. Also, I really hate the idea of spending $10-$12K on a refrigerator but worry about how the space will look with a standard fridge, and how bad that will bug me.
I love having a standard fridge I can replace easily for $2k.
My only issue is the damn behemoth keeps moving back into the space! I need to figure out a solution to ensure it doesn't shuffle back...
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by CloudNine33 »

Just got a quote yesterday for a 48" Wolf range and 72" Subzero fridge freezer. $49,000!!!!!!!!!

My appliance budget for a new build house is $50k so will be looking at Jenn-Aire for the kitchen. Whirlpool for laundry.

Here are some that I looked up last night. Anyone have experience with newer Jenn-Aire stuff?

Jenn Aire NOIR 36" Six Burner Cooktop JGCP436HM 4,419.99
Jenn Aire NOIR Double wall ovens JJW3830IM 7,054.99
Jenn Aire  Professional Wall-Mount Hood, 36 JXW9036HP 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" NOIR™ Undercounter Microwave Oven with Drawer Design JMDFS30HM 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Refrigerator, Right Swing JBRFR30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Freezer, Left Swing JBZFL30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  NOIR™ 24" Built-In Undercounter Beverage Center, Right Swing JUBFR242HM 3,314.99
Jenn Aire  24" TriFecta™ Dishwasher, Panel-Ready, 38 dBA JDTSS245GX 2,209.99
Whirlpool  33-inch wide Bottom-Freezer Refrigerator - 22 cu. ft. WRB322DMHV 1,657.49
(second fridge for basement)

42,117.41
chazas
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by chazas »

HeadHunter wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:32 am Just got a quote yesterday for a 48" Wolf range and 72" Subzero fridge freezer. $49,000!!!!!!!!!

My appliance budget for a new build house is $50k so will be looking at Jenn-Aire for the kitchen. Whirlpool for laundry.

Here are some that I looked up last night. Anyone have experience with newer Jenn-Aire stuff?

Jenn Aire NOIR 36" Six Burner Cooktop JGCP436HM 4,419.99
Jenn Aire NOIR Double wall ovens JJW3830IM 7,054.99
Jenn Aire  Professional Wall-Mount Hood, 36 JXW9036HP 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" NOIR™ Undercounter Microwave Oven with Drawer Design JMDFS30HM 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Refrigerator, Right Swing JBRFR30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Freezer, Left Swing JBZFL30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  NOIR™ 24" Built-In Undercounter Beverage Center, Right Swing JUBFR242HM 3,314.99
Jenn Aire  24" TriFecta™ Dishwasher, Panel-Ready, 38 dBA JDTSS245GX 2,209.99
Whirlpool  33-inch wide Bottom-Freezer Refrigerator - 22 cu. ft. WRB322DMHV 1,657.49
(second fridge for basement)

42,117.41
My home (spec built in 2018) had an all JennAir package. I replaced the induction cooktop with gas of a different brand. Dishwasher is great, hood is great, wall oven/speed oven combo is fine, I dislike the counter depth French door fridge but not enough to replace it. I find Whirlpool products generally acceptable as a “default” but there are stinkers, you’ll have to check the reviews on each appliance.


Personally I would do KitchenAid - same appliances, also higher end look, but don’t have the fixed pricing of JennAir.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by toomanysidehustles »

ZMonet wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:46 pm Had a Viking 48"...Worst refrigerator ever. Amazing how something so large could hold so little! I really don't understand why these refrigerators go for so much money other than you are stuck if the space is already designed for 48" of cabinet depth.

Ultimately neither my wife nor I could justify $12k on a refrigerator so we bought a 36" cabinet-depth $3k Bosch and I made a surround that took up 6" on each side and a 48" box cabinet over the refrigerator. Now it all still looks custom, the Bosch is the best refrigerator I've owned, my wife got extra cabinet space, and when the Bosch dies I'll be happy to shell out $3k for another refrigerator.

As another poster said, if you don't want to do the cabinetry work yourself, see how much it costs to hire someone. A lot more refrigerator options are available at the cabinet-depth 36" than at 48" built-in and I'd be surprised if the actual usable space is all that much different.
Another vote for Bosch. We did the same thing as ^.
We put an LG in the garage and it is a nice staging area and way to declutter the kitchen fridge.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by RickBoglehead »

Wonder if we made a Venn diagram of people who spent more than $10,000 on a refrigerator and people who drive old vehicles, how big the intersection would be? :twisted:

Two appliances for $49,000? :shock: I literally will NEVER do that.

Haven't bought a fridge in a long time, or for that matter appliances in general. Using our washer and dryer (dryer bought in 1996, washer before that).
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by stoptothink »

chazas wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:56 am
HeadHunter wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:32 am Just got a quote yesterday for a 48" Wolf range and 72" Subzero fridge freezer. $49,000!!!!!!!!!

My appliance budget for a new build house is $50k so will be looking at Jenn-Aire for the kitchen. Whirlpool for laundry.

Here are some that I looked up last night. Anyone have experience with newer Jenn-Aire stuff?

Jenn Aire NOIR 36" Six Burner Cooktop JGCP436HM 4,419.99
Jenn Aire NOIR Double wall ovens JJW3830IM 7,054.99
Jenn Aire  Professional Wall-Mount Hood, 36 JXW9036HP 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" NOIR™ Undercounter Microwave Oven with Drawer Design JMDFS30HM 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Refrigerator, Right Swing JBRFR30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Freezer, Left Swing JBZFL30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  NOIR™ 24" Built-In Undercounter Beverage Center, Right Swing JUBFR242HM 3,314.99
Jenn Aire  24" TriFecta™ Dishwasher, Panel-Ready, 38 dBA JDTSS245GX 2,209.99
Whirlpool  33-inch wide Bottom-Freezer Refrigerator - 22 cu. ft. WRB322DMHV 1,657.49
(second fridge for basement)

42,117.41
My home (spec built in 2018) had an all JennAir package. I replaced the induction cooktop with gas of a different brand. Dishwasher is great, hood is great, wall oven/speed oven combo is fine, I dislike the counter depth French door fridge but not enough to replace it. I find Whirlpool products generally acceptable as a “default” but there are stinkers, you’ll have to check the reviews on each appliance.


Personally I would do KitchenAid - same appliances, also higher end look, but don’t have the fixed pricing of JennAir.
My n=1, my parents have a Jenn Aire 36" six burner range (looks like it might be the NOIR model). I'm pretty sure they have customer service on speed dial; something is always broken on it. Their nightmare experience with that specific appliance has made my wife and I agree that we'll never buy a "nice" range.
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Love Venn diagrams

Post by Bogle7 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:12 amWonder if we made a Venn diagram of people who spent more than $10,000 on a refrigerator and people who drive old vehicles, how big the intersection would be?
Haven't bought a fridge in a long time, or for that matter appliances in general. Using our washer and dryer (dryer bought in 1996, washer before that).
Us.
Sub-Zero refrigerator and wine cooler $14K
One car - 2007 Audi A3 with 56K miles

We bought Miele washer/dryer set in 2019 when our 2011 Kenmore (made by LG) washer died and the local LG repair shop said: 'buy a new one'.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by United2008 »

We are sort of in the same boat and are considering 30-33'' column fridge/freezer sets. Would take some modification to the existing cabinetry but the existing cabinetry layout makes this a workable option. Example here: https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmad ... REFR5.html.

All in the options seem to be in the $4-6k range, so more than a standard unit but not nearly as much as another high-end built unit. Anyone else go this route?
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by chazas »

United2008 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:33 am We are sort of in the same boat and are considering 30-33'' column fridge/freezer sets. Would take some modification to the existing cabinetry but the existing cabinetry layout makes this a workable option. Example here: https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmad ... REFR5.html.

All in the options seem to be in the $4-6k range, so more than a standard unit but not nearly as much as another high-end built unit. Anyone else go this route?
I'm, um, "appliance involved" when building or renovating. These have been around a while and I considered them for one project, IIRC they are a decent option. Look at reviews. Also search the Houzz appliance forum (which has gone way downhill since it was Gardenweb, but there's still a good amount of info).
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Re: Love Venn diagrams

Post by RickBoglehead »

Bogle7 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:28 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:12 amWonder if we made a Venn diagram of people who spent more than $10,000 on a refrigerator and people who drive old vehicles, how big the intersection would be?
Haven't bought a fridge in a long time, or for that matter appliances in general. Using our washer and dryer (dryer bought in 1996, washer before that).
Us.
Sub-Zero refrigerator and wine cooler $14K
One car - 2007 Audi A3 with 56K miles

We bought Miele washer/dryer set in 2019 when our 2011 Kenmore (made by LG) washer died and the local LG repair shop said: 'buy a new one'.
Yeah, not the example I was looking for (Audi).

I'm talking about the people that are driving a 25 year old used vehicle that they bought when it was 10 years old and paid $7,451 for it, with cash only, and reuse their motor oil after straining it... :shock: And then buy a $15,000 refrigerator. :wink:
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by chazas »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:19 am
chazas wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:56 am
HeadHunter wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:32 am Just got a quote yesterday for a 48" Wolf range and 72" Subzero fridge freezer. $49,000!!!!!!!!!

My appliance budget for a new build house is $50k so will be looking at Jenn-Aire for the kitchen. Whirlpool for laundry.

Here are some that I looked up last night. Anyone have experience with newer Jenn-Aire stuff?

Jenn Aire NOIR 36" Six Burner Cooktop JGCP436HM 4,419.99
Jenn Aire NOIR Double wall ovens JJW3830IM 7,054.99
Jenn Aire  Professional Wall-Mount Hood, 36 JXW9036HP 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" NOIR™ Undercounter Microwave Oven with Drawer Design JMDFS30HM 2,379.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Refrigerator, Right Swing JBRFR30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  30" Panel-Ready Built-In Column Freezer, Left Swing JBZFL30IGX 9,349.99
Jenn Aire  NOIR™ 24" Built-In Undercounter Beverage Center, Right Swing JUBFR242HM 3,314.99
Jenn Aire  24" TriFecta™ Dishwasher, Panel-Ready, 38 dBA JDTSS245GX 2,209.99
Whirlpool  33-inch wide Bottom-Freezer Refrigerator - 22 cu. ft. WRB322DMHV 1,657.49
(second fridge for basement)

42,117.41
My home (spec built in 2018) had an all JennAir package. I replaced the induction cooktop with gas of a different brand. Dishwasher is great, hood is great, wall oven/speed oven combo is fine, I dislike the counter depth French door fridge but not enough to replace it. I find Whirlpool products generally acceptable as a “default” but there are stinkers, you’ll have to check the reviews on each appliance.


Personally I would do KitchenAid - same appliances, also higher end look, but don’t have the fixed pricing of JennAir.
My n=1, my parents have a Jenn Aire 36" six burner range (looks like it might be the NOIR model). I'm pretty sure they have customer service on speed dial; something is always broken on it. Their nightmare experience with that specific appliance has made my wife and I agree that we'll never buy a "nice" range.
The dream Bluestar cooktop I replaced my JennAir induction with is fantastic for cooking - the only drop in cooktop that has 22.5K BTU open burners. But it took two years of warranty calls, including one full replacement (after which they extended the warranty, ergo the two years) before it looked and functioned basically correct. The process was mind-numbing, all the way up to my interactions with their main customer servicer person who had the nerve to ask "Will you ever be satisfied?" Yes, when I have a cooktop that works and isn't sitting crooked in the counter. I'd never buy another Bluestar even though they offer something very different from most other appliances.

On the other hand Maytag (also a Whirlpool brand) is coming to fix my out of warranty washer for free. I sent them a PM asking a parts question on Facebook, they asked to call me and offered to fix for free. YMMV.
CurlyDave
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by CurlyDave »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:43 pm
JTcheek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:02 pm I can’t speak to those brands, but I have a built in Viking, and I will be replacing it with another brand when it dies. Also, I really hate the idea of spending $10-$12K on a refrigerator but worry about how the space will look with a standard fridge, and how bad that will bug me.
I love having a standard fridge I can replace easily for $2k.
My only issue is the damn behemoth keeps moving back into the space! I need to figure out a solution to ensure it doesn't shuffle back...
Figure out how much deeper the space is than the fridge, and get a piece of 1" x 2" or 1" x 4" from your local big box store. Cut it to length and just put it on the floor behind the fridge. No one will ever see it and it is trapped between the fridge and the wall.
Answering a question is easy -- asking the right question is the hard part.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by wfrobinette »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:43 pm
JTcheek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:02 pm I can’t speak to those brands, but I have a built in Viking, and I will be replacing it with another brand when it dies. Also, I really hate the idea of spending $10-$12K on a refrigerator but worry about how the space will look with a standard fridge, and how bad that will bug me.
I love having a standard fridge I can replace easily for $2k.
My only issue is the damn behemoth keeps moving back into the space! I need to figure out a solution to ensure it doesn't shuffle back...
Pull the dust cover off the bottom,. There should be feet on each side that can be tightened down to the floor. Have someone push back from the top to provide just a little tilt then even them out. The fridge should not move after that.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Wannaretireearly »

CurlyDave wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:52 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:43 pm
JTcheek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:02 pm I can’t speak to those brands, but I have a built in Viking, and I will be replacing it with another brand when it dies. Also, I really hate the idea of spending $10-$12K on a refrigerator but worry about how the space will look with a standard fridge, and how bad that will bug me.
I love having a standard fridge I can replace easily for $2k.
My only issue is the damn behemoth keeps moving back into the space! I need to figure out a solution to ensure it doesn't shuffle back...
Figure out how much deeper the space is than the fridge, and get a piece of 1" x 2" or 1" x 4" from your local big box store. Cut it to length and just put it on the floor behind the fridge. No one will ever see it and it is trapped between the fridge and the wall.
Yep thanks. I need to do this.

BTW the prices further up are insane. Could live off door dash healthily for 10 to 15 years spending $50k
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
Starfish
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Starfish »

Why do you still buy gas ranges? An induction range boils water in 1 minute and it's much better looking and easier to clean. Come to this century.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by chazas »

Starfish wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:54 pm Why do you still buy gas ranges? An induction range boils water in 1 minute and it's much better looking and easier to clean. Come to this century.
I don't enjoy cooking on induction. Feels - sterile. Plus all the buzzing and other weirdness. It's a matter of taste.

Also lol at someone on BH telling all us old folks to come to this century.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by mkc »

Starfish wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:54 pm Why do you still buy gas ranges? An induction range boils water in 1 minute and it's much better looking and easier to clean. Come to this century.
Charring peppers, toasting tortillas, shaking a hot cast iron skillet in contact with the burner grates. Simple appliance that is easily repaired should it need it (no computer boards or expensive glass top that can crack).

I also prefer the look of my gas rangetop to a smoothtop.

I have a portable induction hob and have used a high end Vollrath hob. I still prefer cooking on gas.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by illumination »

Kitchen Aid has a good model that fits that size, I almost bought one. Still expensive, but cheaper than SubZero.

I have a Sub Zero, I strongly dislike the service and parts "racket" that goes along with it. Despite being in a large city, there's only one authorized repair outfit. It's essentially a monopoly and they charge accordingly. Place has horrible reviews, but I'm sure rakes in the business. Subzero technically won't sell parts to other repair places that aren't in their dealer network. Just a really closed system that hurts consumers imo. I'm actually pretty good about repairing it myself because of all the repair issues its had.

I personally wouldn't be too quick to dismiss getting a conventional fridge and making some cabinet modifications instead, it's not that bad. I also have a nearly 25 year old SubZero and could have bought several "conventional" refrigerators with the money I've spent on service. I would love to just buy a new $2,500 fridge every few years than spend $12k on a new SubZero and throw away $2k every time someone comes in my house to repair it. I know a lot of people that have abandoned them and put "normal" fridges in. The haven't become pariahs in their social circle. :sharebeer
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Bogle7
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by Bogle7 »

illumination wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:54 pmI also have a nearly 25 year old SubZero and could have bought several "conventional" refrigerators with the money I've spent on service.
We spent $500 on repairs between 1987 and 2011.
24 years.
Very happy.
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by London »

We have a 48 inch Subzero fridge. When we bought the house, we spent about $2,500 on repairs. We had never even bought a fridge for that much previously. Since then, I’ve done all my own repairs by watching YouTube. Not a difficult project and repair costs are probably $50 in six years since.
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illumination
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by illumination »

Bogle7 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:06 pm
illumination wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:54 pmI also have a nearly 25 year old SubZero and could have bought several "conventional" refrigerators with the money I've spent on service.
We spent $500 on repairs between 1987 and 2011.
24 years.
Very happy.
And here's another data point.
Mine was 1998-2021. Way, way more than that in repairs.
I regret when I moved into my house not ripping it out and replacing it. That's the problem with owning them is it's very easy to make a case to just keep throwing a few thousand in repairs and kick the can.

Friends and family I know that have SubZeros have had a lot of problems to the point they tell people to avoid the brand. A relative I know that is very well to do (and can afford whatever he wants) specifically built his kitchen around NOT having one because he had so many problems. I even looked into a home warranty and they specifically excluded built in refrigerators. Seems even they know they can be too expensive to keep going.

I do think the "old "SubZero were better made. Just like other appliance brands used to be. All sorts of houses with 30 year old dishwashers and washing machines, you're just not going to see that as much with today 's newer appliances. I have a 25 year old Maytag "beer fridge" and not one repair.

If SubZero had a more "open" repair network, I would be more open to buying one. I just had a good friend just pay something like a $1,200 bill for a new condenser fan on their newish SubZero. This is a $50 part that takes someone under 20 minutes to install. I started learning to repair them myself because it was so bad for even something simple.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by ncbill »

illumination wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:54 pm Kitchen Aid has a good model that fits that size, I almost bought one. Still expensive, but cheaper than SubZero.

I have a Sub Zero, I strongly dislike the service and parts "racket" that goes along with it. Despite being in a large city, there's only one authorized repair outfit. It's essentially a monopoly and they charge accordingly. Place has horrible reviews, but I'm sure rakes in the business. Subzero technically won't sell parts to other repair places that aren't in their dealer network. Just a really closed system that hurts consumers imo. I'm actually pretty good about repairing it myself because of all the repair issues its had.

I personally wouldn't be too quick to dismiss getting a conventional fridge and making some cabinet modifications instead, it's not that bad. I also have a nearly 25 year old SubZero and could have bought several "conventional" refrigerators with the money I've spent on service. I would love to just buy a new $2,500 fridge every few years than spend $12k on a new SubZero and throw away $2k every time someone comes in my house to repair it. I know a lot of people that have abandoned them and put "normal" fridges in. The haven't become pariahs in their social circle. :sharebeer
Seems like it would be cheaper in the long-run to design a kitchen for two stand-alone models instead of a single built-in.

E.g. one fridge-only, one upright freezer, two 'regular' fridge/freezers, etc.
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illumination
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by illumination »

ncbill wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:38 pm
illumination wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:54 pm Kitchen Aid has a good model that fits that size, I almost bought one. Still expensive, but cheaper than SubZero.

I have a Sub Zero, I strongly dislike the service and parts "racket" that goes along with it. Despite being in a large city, there's only one authorized repair outfit. It's essentially a monopoly and they charge accordingly. Place has horrible reviews, but I'm sure rakes in the business. Subzero technically won't sell parts to other repair places that aren't in their dealer network. Just a really closed system that hurts consumers imo. I'm actually pretty good about repairing it myself because of all the repair issues its had.

I personally wouldn't be too quick to dismiss getting a conventional fridge and making some cabinet modifications instead, it's not that bad. I also have a nearly 25 year old SubZero and could have bought several "conventional" refrigerators with the money I've spent on service. I would love to just buy a new $2,500 fridge every few years than spend $12k on a new SubZero and throw away $2k every time someone comes in my house to repair it. I know a lot of people that have abandoned them and put "normal" fridges in. The haven't become pariahs in their social circle. :sharebeer
Seems like it would be cheaper in the long-run to design a kitchen for two stand-alone models instead of a single built-in.

E.g. one fridge-only, one upright freezer, two 'regular' fridge/freezers, etc.

I agree, there's companies that make solutions like that.

https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmad ... REFR1.html

About a third the price of a similar sized SubZero.

I don't even care so much about the initial price, I just like being able to easily replace and service.

Someone I know did something similar when they designed their kitchen.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by mkc »

illumination wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:27 pm
ncbill wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:38 pm
Seems like it would be cheaper in the long-run to design a kitchen for two stand-alone models instead of a single built-in.

E.g. one fridge-only, one upright freezer, two 'regular' fridge/freezers, etc.

I agree, there's companies that make solutions like that.

https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmad ... REFR1.html

About a third the price of a similar sized SubZero.
Yeah, but when one side dies, now you're locked into a 30" wide replacement, which means same brand again. Same with the ELux/Frigidaire twins - there you're locked into a 33" replacement.

If one is going to remodel, it might make sense to design for a 72" high, 36" wide, standard depth fridge (not counter depth). Many, many options for that space when the first one dies, plus a 36" standard depth has nearly the same capacity as a 48" built in.
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Re: Love Venn diagrams

Post by FireSekr »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:46 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:28 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:12 amWonder if we made a Venn diagram of people who spent more than $10,000 on a refrigerator and people who drive old vehicles, how big the intersection would be?
Haven't bought a fridge in a long time, or for that matter appliances in general. Using our washer and dryer (dryer bought in 1996, washer before that).
Us.
Sub-Zero refrigerator and wine cooler $14K
One car - 2007 Audi A3 with 56K miles

We bought Miele washer/dryer set in 2019 when our 2011 Kenmore (made by LG) washer died and the local LG repair shop said: 'buy a new one'.
Yeah, not the example I was looking for (Audi).

I'm talking about the people that are driving a 25 year old used vehicle that they bought when it was 10 years old and paid $7,451 for it, with cash only, and reuse their motor oil after straining it... :shock: And then buy a $15,000 refrigerator. :wink:
Almost my case.

My daily driver is a 2003 BMW 330xi with 185k miles that I bought from some college kid for $4k

My refrigerator is Bosch and I think I paid $3.2k if I remember correctly. I was going to get Sub Zero, but I couldn’t wait 12 weeks.
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illumination
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by illumination »

mkc wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:49 pm
illumination wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:27 pm
ncbill wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:38 pm
Seems like it would be cheaper in the long-run to design a kitchen for two stand-alone models instead of a single built-in.

E.g. one fridge-only, one upright freezer, two 'regular' fridge/freezers, etc.

I agree, there's companies that make solutions like that.

https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmad ... REFR1.html

About a third the price of a similar sized SubZero.
Yeah, but when one side dies, now you're locked into a 30" wide replacement, which means same brand again. Same with the ELux/Frigidaire twins - there you're locked into a 33" replacement.

If one is going to remodel, it might make sense to design for a 72" high, 36" wide, standard depth fridge (not counter depth). Many, many options for that space when the first one dies, plus a 36" standard depth has nearly the same capacity as a 48" built in.

It's an issue, but it still seems a way more economical solution if you "must" have a large fridge and freezer. You could buy 2-3 SubZeros with the same money. I also think it would be easier for most places to service by not having a "closed" network for parts.

But overall, I definitely think the "smart" play is to just get a standard sized fridge for a kitchen, and maybe a "garage fridge" for spillover and 99% of people would have plenty of capacity. But that's not going to sell everywhere, you need a fridge you could operate a deli out of to look "high end". :) My wife would flip out if I designed our kitchen with a "regular fridge" slot.

I would like to see more "regular" brands get into the built in 48" space with the option of just putting in paneling, so you don't need to worry about the cosmetics. Replacing say a $4,000 Whirlpool refrigerator every 8 years or so just wouldn't bother me all that much. If its starts having problems, you just buy a new one.
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Re: Replacing High End Built in Refrigerator...

Post by floloo114 »

We had a similar problem when we moved into our house and had to replace a 48 inch subzero refrigerator. We didn't want to spend the 10-12K for a 48 inch refrigerator so we decided to buy two counter depth 24 inch units (top fridge and bottom is freezer) and put them side to side with the doors opening on opposite sides. It fits in the space and looks just like the built in 48 inch unit we used to have there. Each unit cost about $1800 (summit brand). It's also nice that it's unlikely for both of them to break at the exact same time so if one breaks down, we have the other one to use.
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