Restricting access to a private community pool?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
z91
Posts: 790
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:19 pm

Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by z91 »

I live in a small community and pay HOA dues. A lot of the dues are used for the swimming pool, but the pool is right off a large street and gets a lot of visibility -- so much that random people have started coming by after work and sneaking themselves in by waiting for someone to leave or following someone in.

I personally don't let people follow me in, but many people here do because they "feel bad." The HOA has already sent out reminders to folks to not do that, but with so many people here it just doesn't work.

They have fairly secure locks (I could not get any locksmith to copy them -- FWIW they are Schlange Primus keys), but the main reason people get in is due to social engineering.

Earlier this week someone let in a family of two, and right after they got in 4 cars pulled into the parking lot and they let them all in :?

Does anyone live in a community with a pool? Are there ways to prevent unknown folks from coming in, or is it just not worth the effort? I don't think more security is the answer, people would just climb the fence or follow someone in anyway.

I've heard some places use neckbands with a "pool pass" to identify folks that are supposed to be in, but don't know how well that actually works.
River in Sight
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by River in Sight »

My community gives out simple cardboard pool passes at the start of each season. One for each resident of each unit, and two guest passes per unit. Our pool has a lifeguard who requests the passes upon entry. This seems to work.
jebmke
Posts: 25271
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by jebmke »

z91 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:41 pm I've heard some places use neckbands with a "pool pass" to identify folks that are supposed to be in, but don't know how well that actually works.
It was a very long time ago but that is what I recall from my youth. We had wrist-bands with a tag.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
Topic Author
z91
Posts: 790
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by z91 »

jebmke wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:48 pm
z91 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:41 pm I've heard some places use neckbands with a "pool pass" to identify folks that are supposed to be in, but don't know how well that actually works.
It was a very long time ago but that is what I recall from my youth. We had wrist-bands with a tag.
That sounds like a good idea. They restrict access by number of adults, so residents and guests could wear one, and whomever doesn't have one has to get out :D
River in Sight wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 pm My community gives out simple cardboard pool passes at the start of each season. One for each resident of each unit, and two guest passes per unit. Our pool has a lifeguard who requests the passes upon entry. This seems to work.
I like the idea, but the problem is we aren't that big so no budget for a lifeguard. I suspect if we had a lifeguard we wouldn't have this problem to begin with.
User avatar
GerryL
Posts: 3902
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by GerryL »

Has the HOA posted a prominent sign that declares they will not be legally responsible for any unauthorized users (trespassers) who are injured in the pool area? Not that the sign would stop anyone, but at least it is a warning about some of the legal consequences of using the pool.
bob60014
Posts: 3739
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:59 pm
Location: The Land Beyond ORD

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by bob60014 »

And does the HOA have adequate insurance?
stan1
Posts: 14235
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by stan1 »

The HOA has to send out repeated notices to property owners not to let other people in. That will be harder if there are a lot of tenants in units that are rented by the owners. Emphasize that residents will have a key and anyone without a key is not authorized to be in the pool area due to liability (e.g. it could impact the finances of the property owners if the HOA is sued). Make sure HOA has liability insurance for pool area.

You could also recommend the HOA host a "pool party" so that residents in the small community would get to know each other and realize who should be in the pool area. There should be a large number of signs posted on a variety of issues especially if there is also a jacuzzi. There may be state and local requirements.

You could also volunteer for the board if you are interested in these issues. Our board generally has vacancies because there are fewer people willing to volunteer than there are positions. If you do that make sure the HOA has directors liability coverage. It would be crazy not to, but some boards really try to cut costs.
Last edited by stan1 on Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nyc10036
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Nyc10036 »

Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.
User avatar
tooluser
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by tooluser »

Individual access booths with body weight, volume, facial, palm, and retina scanners. It's the only way to be sure.

Or maybe a lifeguard would be cheaper. It seems to be a liability and quality of life issue that may warrant an increase in HOA fees, if most owners agree to that.

I used to live in a large condo complex with several pools and no lifeguards. Some non-resident people would climb the fence and play in the pools, and possibly break into units. The guards would come around on their rounds and check to see that things were okay. They wouldn't cause a fuss if no one at the pool was unhappy. Maybe some of the interlopers were invited by the guards. Maybe the guards themselves were swimming. It gets very complicated.

I eventually sold and moved away. But not just because of that.
stan1
Posts: 14235
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by stan1 »

Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.
Lifeguards are very uncommon in HOA and even apartment pools. May vary by state and local laws I guess.
User avatar
riverant
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 6:51 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by riverant »

Without a staff member present, there’s really no way to reasonably do this. Just don’t do it yourself. You don’t want to be this lady

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/na ... video.html
stan1
Posts: 14235
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by stan1 »

Another idea would be do do some construction work and landscaping to make the pool less obvious to passers-by.

Pool issues are the #2 issue our professional HOA manager deals with. Parking issues are #1.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16767
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by ResearchMed »

Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.

I'm not so sure about giving a lifeguard this duty, unless perhaps there are multiple lifeguards.
What happens when there is a commotion at the entry gate, with someone(s) giving the lifeguard trouble about getting in... while someone else is flailing around in the water?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
123
Posts: 10387
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by 123 »

The HOA could place a camera at the pool entrance gate and record continuously. The HOA could add signage for residents to close the gate securely and that any resident who admits unauthorized outsiders will have pool access suspended for their household for maybe 2 weeks.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
runninginvestor
Posts: 1795
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:00 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by runninginvestor »

Get a turnstile type entrance if you want to prevent social engineering. Not the ones you can jump over. The ones that are like mini revolving doors.

ETA: pricey, but maybe worth it if it's really bothersome
https://www.grainger.com/product/3YME9? ... lsrc=aw.ds
stan1
Posts: 14235
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by stan1 »

runninginvestor wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:12 pm Get a turn style type entrance if you want to prevent social engineering. Not the ones you can jump over. The ones that are like mini revolving doors.
Nah, Rikers Island or NY subway curb appeal would impact property values and just expose another weak point (such as climbing fence so would have to add razor wire further impacting property value).
Normchad
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:20 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Normchad »

stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:18 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.
Lifeguards are very uncommon in HOA and even apartment pools. May vary by state and local laws I guess.
They are very common here in Virginia...... I've never not seen one.....
boglegirl
Posts: 629
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by boglegirl »

We had this problem in our pool. It became a big enough problem that this summer the HOA hired neighborhood teenagers to verify everyone who comes in during busy times (we get a neighborhood lanyard w/a card to access the pool). But from your description, it sounds like that wouldn't be cost effective for a pool your size. Does your neighborhood hire any outside security to patrol the neighborhood occasionally? If so, they could do spot checks during the busiest times, where if you don't have an access card you're asked to leave.

Oh, we are also reminded regularly in newsletters etc not to let anyone follow you in who doesn't have the lanyard.

I think all the solutions require $$ and possibly unpleasant confrontations. I know our teen pool attendants have been chewed out by residents who forgot their pass.
Dick D
Posts: 213
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:55 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Dick D »

We have a person at the pool entrance who ask your name and address and looks in a binder to verify the information.
User avatar
gwe67
Posts: 1364
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:52 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by gwe67 »

Baby Ruth.
VTI 48%, VXUS 12%, BND 40%
User avatar
quantAndHold
Posts: 10141
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by quantAndHold »

Normchad wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:19 pm
stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:18 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.
Lifeguards are very uncommon in HOA and even apartment pools. May vary by state and local laws I guess.
They are very common here in Virginia...... I've never not seen one.....
I’ve lived in multiple states and never once seen a lifeguard at an HOA or apartment pool. I assume VA has some rule requiring them that other states don’t.

As to the question, you could have a minimum wage rent-a-cop checking keys or something, I suppose. But that kind of thing goes with the territory.
criticalmass
Posts: 2839
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by criticalmass »

GerryL wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:58 pm Has the HOA posted a prominent sign that declares they will not be legally responsible for any unauthorized users (trespassers) who are injured in the pool area? Not that the sign would stop anyone, but at least it is a warning about some of the legal consequences of using the pool.
Don't count on simply washing away legal liability for personal injuries with a mere sign. HOA's have been successfully sued by trespassers who used playground equipment and injured themselves. A pool is an even greater attractive nuisance.
User avatar
GerryL
Posts: 3902
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by GerryL »

criticalmass wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:08 am
GerryL wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:58 pm Has the HOA posted a prominent sign that declares they will not be legally responsible for any unauthorized users (trespassers) who are injured in the pool area? Not that the sign would stop anyone, but at least it is a warning about some of the legal consequences of using the pool.
Don't count on simply washing away legal liability for personal injuries with a mere sign. HOA's have been successfully sued by trespassers who used playground equipment and injured themselves. A pool is an even greater attractive nuisance.
Oh yeah. I know. That very fact, if called out, could prompt second thoughts about residents who let non-authorized people in. $$$
User avatar
Kagord
Posts: 1670
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:28 pm
Location: Peaksville, Ohio

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Kagord »

You could require and put stars on the bellies for those people allowed to go to the swimming pool parties. And those plane belly people outside in the heat would have none upon thars.

Image
User avatar
Brianmcg321
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:23 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Brianmcg321 »

gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:11 pmBaby Ruth.
Doody!
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.
vested1
Posts: 3492
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:20 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by vested1 »

If you can't stop non-HOA members from using the pool start charging a healthy entrance fee for non HOA members to use it. Use the proceeds to hire someone to collect the money at the entrance and to stop outsiders from jumping the fence. Less outsiders will come because it will no longer be free. If outsiders continue to come at least it will add to the general fund of the HOA. If too many outsiders continue to come, raise the fee. Make the fee per use, not a membership.

Our HOA does a version of this, but offers memberships to outsiders that costs $15 a month. Even at that low price for access to a very nice large pool there are few takers. I would charge $10 a visit per person for outsiders and offer no memberships.

Edited to add that the fee could also fund another employee. Both employees could be lifeguards, taking turns watching the pool and blowing a whistle to stop fence jumpers while the other collects the fees and determines HOA membership at the entrance. Many times lifeguards are young and are not paid very much. I worked for several years as a lifeguard at a large private pool as a teenager. My duties included taking turns at the entrance doing just what I described above. Being a lifeguard comes with other perks that young people understand, and they will consequently accept a level of pay they may otherwise reject.
Last edited by vested1 on Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18461
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:11 pmBaby Ruth.
If the HOA has a pool and a pond, point them to the pond.


How about a 2 prong approach. First, issue wrist bands for every person authorized. Then, start a volunteer position to check that only wrist banded people are allowed. I have to believe that there are parents with their kids who don't even go into the pool and are just there to keep an eye on the kids.

I suppose a third thing would be to call the police for any non-authorized person to be arrested for trespassing. Have a policy that anyone coming in refusing to show a wrist band gets a call to the police immediately.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
mw1739
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by mw1739 »

The gate at our pool has a loud alarm if held open for more than a few seconds. Since you mentioned parking, is there a way to restrict or eliminate parking? Make the trespassers walk or tow their car and I bet they quit coming.
Mr. Rumples
Posts: 2963
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:16 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

123 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:00 pm The HOA could place a camera at the pool entrance gate and record continuously. The HOA could add signage for residents to close the gate securely and that any resident who admits unauthorized outsiders will have pool access suspended for their household for maybe 2 weeks.
This might be the only way to do it with a suspension or fine the first offense the first time, revoking the second. The insurance policy should be checked to see if there is a caveat about who can use the pool. The liability is huge for negligence and failure to act could be considered by the insurance company as negligence and hence no coverage.

When I was on the HOA board last, we always communicated with the rental property owner since the agreements are with owners not renters. Start sending them the letters and the fines. If there is a revocation, that would pass to the owner and if its a year, for example, that would transfer to a new renter and thus might affect the rental income since the landlord would not be able to market the unit as having pool access.

Note regarding trespassing. As with so many things, that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The jurisdiction will have laws regarding signage and its placement. A person who is let in by an authorized user, though otherwise not eligible, might not be trespassing since they were invited in.

If your community has a newsletter and it has information from the board of directors, have someone on the board make a motion and then table it to shut down the pool due to violations. This season is almost over, but it will send shock waves through the community that this might be an option next year.

Death and liability are huge with a pool like this; especially if there is only one main drain. New pools are required to have two due to the suction. The Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act (VGBA) passed in 2008 requires two drains. (Its named after U.S. Secretary of State James Baker's granddaughter who drowned in the family hot tub due to main drain entrapment.)

Roughly 10 people a day drown each day in the US. More than that each day go to the ER and survive. It's not an insignificant problem. The board by taking action would be fulfilling its duty to protect the community financial interests in addition to health and safety.

https://www.poolsafetyfoundation.org/ed ... tatistics/
"History is the memory of time, the life of the dead and the happiness of the living." Captain John Smith 1580-1631
criticalmass
Posts: 2839
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by criticalmass »

Mr. Rumples wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:27 am
123 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:00 pm The HOA could place a camera at the pool entrance gate and record continuously. The HOA could add signage for residents to close the gate securely and that any resident who admits unauthorized outsiders will have pool access suspended for their household for maybe 2 weeks.
This might be the only way to do it with a suspension or fine the first offense the first time, revoking the second. The insurance policy should be checked to see if there is a caveat about who can use the pool. The liability is huge for negligence and failure to act could be considered by the insurance company as negligence and hence no coverage.

When I was on the HOA board last, we always communicated with the rental property owner since the agreements are with owners not renters. Start sending them the letters and the fines. If there is a revocation, that would pass to the owner and if its a year, for example, that would transfer to a new renter and thus might affect the rental income since the landlord would not be able to market the unit as having pool access.

Note regarding trespassing. As with so many things, that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The jurisdiction will have laws regarding signage and its placement. A person who is let in by an authorized user, though otherwise not eligible, might not be trespassing since they were invited in.

If your community has a newsletter and it has information from the board of directors, have someone on the board make a motion and then table it to shut down the pool due to violations. This season is almost over, but it will send shock waves through the community that this might be an option next year.

Be double sure that the Board of Directors has express authority in its deeded covenants to issue "fines" and "amenity revocations" to homeowners before taking any action against homeowners, especially in Virginia.

Virginia Supreme Court cases have sent several legal precedents (with help from the general assembly) over the past few years that really clamped down on rogue COAs and HOAs who issued fines/assessments or did anything else outside the scope of deeded covenants that define what powers a COA/HOA has over homeowners. If an HOA wants to behave that way it needs to ensure the covenants are in order first, which typically requires a very high percentage (70%-85%) of residents signing to modify covenants before they are recorded with the common deed, unless the authority is already in the covenants. It's easy to find the covenants, they are recorded with the land court / circuit court.
User avatar
Eagle33
Posts: 2383
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Eagle33 »

gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:11 pmBaby Ruth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPxiXGr9nFM
User avatar
snackdog
Posts: 3079
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:57 am
Location: PNW

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by snackdog »

First thing would be for the HOA to do some random checks on weekend afternoons to see if there is really a problem worth addressing or not. You gave one example that obviously bugged you but what fraction of pool users are unauthorized? 10%? Who cares? 50% starts to be an issue, especially if the pool is busy.
BH Consumer FAQ: | Car? Used Toyota, Lexus or Miata. | House? 20% down and 3x salary. | Vacation house? No. | Umbrella? $1 million. | Goods? Costco.
User avatar
leeks
Posts: 1451
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: virginia

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by leeks »

Our neighborhood private pool has at least three staff at all times. There are two lifeguards on duty watching the pool and one with a tablet checking people in at the gate. There is a database with photos of all members and, for guests, members have to buy a guest pass online. So you just give your name at the gate and they see that you match the photo in the database (and any number of guest passes) and they check you in. They rotate through the active lifeguarding vs gate check positions.

Without a staff person to enforce, stuff like wristbands won't do much.

Another option is to offer a limited number of nonresidents a way to pay a fee and join each season.
Then maybe you would have enough money to properly staff the pool.
elle
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:13 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by elle »

Kagord wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:45 am And those plane belly people outside in the heat would have none upon thars.
Lol. :beer
Mr. Rumples
Posts: 2963
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:16 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

The comment above is absolutely correct: find out what authority the board has to address the problem and what are the consequences of not addressing them. That would entail looking at the governing documents, the insurance policy and the law. A professional management company worth the money would know all of these things. State laws vary widely when it comes to HOA matters.

Then the board can make a thoughtful decision over the winter. This type of thing is super sensitive, thus a special board meeting with an open forum might be advantageous so there are no complaints about things being done in secret.
"History is the memory of time, the life of the dead and the happiness of the living." Captain John Smith 1580-1631
User avatar
Nestegg_User
Posts: 2109
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Nestegg_User »

both times when in a house covered by HOA and which had a non-public pool, the hours of operation only were those with lifeguards present (otherwise fully closed). The liability issues are real... even when the one that hosted swim meets from other associations required waivers from non-residents. No way were non-residents gonna be allowed...a swipe badge system was long in effect (those allowing others in without swiping could have privileges revoked... done on coding for the badge). Guests of the residents had to arrive with the resident and sign in along with the resident or use the residents badge (wherein use constituted acceptance of same conditions of use by the resident, outlined in the HOA regulations). There were times when the insurance rates for the HOA were affected by this; discussions of allowed limited use (visitor limits) came up because of this.
finite_difference
Posts: 3626
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by finite_difference »

Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?
+1. I’d increase the budget to pay for teenage lifeguards.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
teCh0010
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by teCh0010 »

Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.
I invest in multi family. None of our pools have lifeguards. Neighborhood HOA pool wouldn’t be any different.
User avatar
kelway
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:37 pm
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by kelway »

River in Sight wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 pm My community gives out simple cardboard pool passes at the start of each season. One for each resident of each unit, and two guest passes per unit. Our pool has a lifeguard who requests the passes upon entry. This seems to work.
I'd suggest if a lifeguard is counted on and warranted, they should not be paying attention to cardboard passes.
tim1999
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:16 am

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by tim1999 »

I'm envisioning a keycard/badge type entry/exit (you have to use it to get in and get out) system with a good quality security camera pointed at the gate. If any resident lets unauthorized people in behind them, it would be easy for pool/HOA management to go back and review the footage and the keycard entry data to pinpoint who the resident violator was. The keycards would have to be set up specifically coded to each resident individually and not just a bunch of generic cards that all work. If a property sells or re-rents, those residents' cards get deactivated and the new residents get their own. Sort of like a typical workspace badge system. It needs to be made clear that every resident is expected to ensure the gate latches behind them as well. $100 fine for first violation of willfully letting unauthorized people in, $250 for second and every one thereafter, if you don't pay it becomes a lien against your house. If you don't want to hit them in the pocketbook, make the penalty a loss of pool access of increasing duration with each subsequent violation. Publicize this well with signage at the gate, email blasts, newsletter mentions, etc. so people have no excuse.
User avatar
Nestegg_User
Posts: 2109
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by Nestegg_User »

Tim1999

that's what I talked about above... the HOA manager kept the system updated (fairly easy to do). The fence line away from the road were high (8 ft) (ETA: they had to use steel since the "perps" would bend any aluminum fencing to get in), which they added two strands of concertina after noting some break ins, and the front entrance gateway was a wrought iron door in the fencing where the swipe entry occurred (roadway side was just 8 ft fencing but extra bright lights and, of course, cameras)

That allowed the HOA to easily show that it wasn't an "attractive nuisance" by any means such that the insurance wouldn't be canceled (and it did allow better rates)
criticalmass
Posts: 2839
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by criticalmass »

kelway wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:54 pm
River in Sight wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 pm My community gives out simple cardboard pool passes at the start of each season. One for each resident of each unit, and two guest passes per unit. Our pool has a lifeguard who requests the passes upon entry. This seems to work.
I'd suggest if a lifeguard is counted on and warranted, they should not be paying attention to cardboard passes.
I don’t follow. Should they only pay attention to plastic passes or wristbands? Rotating lifeguards between watching swimmers and staffing the entrance seems to work very well, keeps lifeguards alert, and is efficient.
stan1
Posts: 14235
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by stan1 »

I think some people are envisioning a private club-like pool 25 yards x 8 lanes (swim meets) with a hundred kids in it supported by 100s if not 1000s of members, vs. a small 20' x 30' foot pool (no lap swimming) in a small condo complex with maybe 20 units. It sounds like at least one state (Virginia) forces both to be handled the same way, definitely not the case in other states I'm familiar with where small private pools in HOAs, apartments, and hotels do not have lifeguards on duty.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16767
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by ResearchMed »

criticalmass wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:42 am
kelway wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:54 pm
River in Sight wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 pm My community gives out simple cardboard pool passes at the start of each season. One for each resident of each unit, and two guest passes per unit. Our pool has a lifeguard who requests the passes upon entry. This seems to work.
I'd suggest if a lifeguard is counted on and warranted, they should not be paying attention to cardboard passes.
I don’t follow. Should they only pay attention to plastic passes or wristbands? Rotating lifeguards between watching swimmers and staffing the entrance seems to work very well, keeps lifeguards alert, and is efficient.
Note the singular, "A lifeguard".
This was my concern, too (above). That A lifeguard should only be... guarding lives, not entrances.

Either >1 guard, or have someone else, lower paid, monitor the gate.

Our vacation rental was like this, but there was a larger number of units and an active clubhouse, so there were "staff" to rotate checking entry to the pool,

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
wfrobinette
Posts: 1879
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by wfrobinette »

z91 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:41 pm I live in a small community and pay HOA dues. A lot of the dues are used for the swimming pool, but the pool is right off a large street and gets a lot of visibility -- so much that random people have started coming by after work and sneaking themselves in by waiting for someone to leave or following someone in.

I personally don't let people follow me in, but many people here do because they "feel bad." The HOA has already sent out reminders to folks to not do that, but with so many people here it just doesn't work.

They have fairly secure locks (I could not get any locksmith to copy them -- FWIW they are Schlange Primus keys), but the main reason people get in is due to social engineering.

Earlier this week someone let in a family of two, and right after they got in 4 cars pulled into the parking lot and they let them all in :?

Does anyone live in a community with a pool? Are there ways to prevent unknown folks from coming in, or is it just not worth the effort? I don't think more security is the answer, people would just climb the fence or follow someone in anyway.

I've heard some places use neckbands with a "pool pass" to identify folks that are supposed to be in, but don't know how well that actually works.
We just had to implement a policy in out 1000 home development. Used to have fobs but it didn't help.

Each house occupant needs a pass and to get a pass you had to show utility bills or leases(for renters). Each home gets 25 guest passes for the entire year. There is someone checking passes on the way in. You don't get in without a pass.

We also have camera's around the the facilities and will get the police involved with trespassers.

The HOA has suspended pool privilege's for various homeowners.

If your HOA doesn't get this under control and someone gets hurt you guys are going to be sued.
wfrobinette
Posts: 1879
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by wfrobinette »

tim1999 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:58 pm I'm envisioning a keycard/badge type entry/exit (you have to use it to get in and get out) system with a good quality security camera pointed at the gate. If any resident lets unauthorized people in behind them, it would be easy for pool/HOA management to go back and review the footage and the keycard entry data to pinpoint who the resident violator was. The keycards would have to be set up specifically coded to each resident individually and not just a bunch of generic cards that all work. If a property sells or re-rents, those residents' cards get deactivated and the new residents get their own. Sort of like a typical workspace badge system. It needs to be made clear that every resident is expected to ensure the gate latches behind them as well. $100 fine for first violation of willfully letting unauthorized people in, $250 for second and every one thereafter, if you don't pay it becomes a lien against your house. If you don't want to hit them in the pocketbook, make the penalty a loss of pool access of increasing duration with each subsequent violation. Publicize this well with signage at the gate, email blasts, newsletter mentions, etc. so people have no excuse.
Doesn't work. We tried it for years and finally had to get strict with issued passes per person and guest pass limits.

Issue is no longer a problem. Much easier to manage than someone watching video after the fact.
wfrobinette
Posts: 1879
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by wfrobinette »

teCh0010 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:53 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.
I invest in multi family. None of our pools have lifeguards. Neighborhood HOA pool wouldn’t be any different.
Depends on the locality. I believe once pools hit a certain occupancy level they are required to maintain insurance.
wfrobinette
Posts: 1879
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by wfrobinette »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:23 pm
Normchad wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:19 pm
stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:18 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:15 pm Your pool doesn't have a lifeguard on duty? Wow.
I am surprised.
What does the insurance for the pool say about liability and lifeguards?

.
Lifeguards are very uncommon in HOA and even apartment pools. May vary by state and local laws I guess.
They are very common here in Virginia...... I've never not seen one.....
I’ve lived in multiple states and never once seen a lifeguard at an HOA or apartment pool. I assume VA has some rule requiring them that other states don’t.

As to the question, you could have a minimum wage rent-a-cop checking keys or something, I suppose. But that kind of thing goes with the territory.
NC has them too!
User avatar
quantAndHold
Posts: 10141
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by quantAndHold »

stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:06 am I think some people are envisioning a private club-like pool 25 yards x 8 lanes (swim meets) with a hundred kids in it supported by 100s if not 1000s of members, vs. a small 20' x 30' foot pool (no lap swimming) in a small condo complex with maybe 20 units. It sounds like at least one state (Virginia) forces both to be handled the same way, definitely not the case in other states I'm familiar with where small private pools in HOAs, apartments, and hotels do not have lifeguards on duty.
I also suspect that pretty much anywhere, the second you start selling admission to outsiders, it becomes a public pool and you’ll be required to have a lifeguard all hours the pool is open.
TheHiker
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:34 pm

Re: Restricting access to a private community pool?

Post by TheHiker »

We used to live in an HOA with a pool who hired a "lifeguard" for a few months in the summer who would sign people in.
Of course, the HOA dues were on the high side...
Post Reply