any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

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ClevrChico
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by ClevrChico »

fposte wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:54 am
Papago wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:46 am Perhaps you should not interfere with Darwin's theories / survival of the fittest... In all seriousness, just park your care somewhere safe / well-lit, and I would think you'd have little trouble from these bums.
My personal concern isn't the parking at home but elsewhere, especially overnight parking in big city lots. Thefts have happened here to cars in Walmart parking, for instance.
Maybe use Uber/Lyft in these situations and leave the car at home?
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by fposte »

ClevrChico wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:59 am
fposte wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:54 am
Papago wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:46 am Perhaps you should not interfere with Darwin's theories / survival of the fittest... In all seriousness, just park your care somewhere safe / well-lit, and I would think you'd have little trouble from these bums.
My personal concern isn't the parking at home but elsewhere, especially overnight parking in big city lots. Thefts have happened here to cars in Walmart parking, for instance.
Maybe use Uber/Lyft in these situations and leave the car at home?
That would mean using Uber any time I go shopping, or any time I take an overnight trip (though distance would make a rental more likely there). Not much point in having a car then.
neilpilot
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by neilpilot »

From what I've seen & read, the typical cat thief is quick to cut & run. Doubtful they would even notice that the cat they were cutting on was etched.

PS - My EV doesn't have a cat, or even an engine.
michaeljc70
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by michaeljc70 »

Catalytic converter theft is rampant in the city I live in. I don't think one thief would care that it is etched as they can remove that and mostly they are sold for the metals inside. Even if it is being sold to be used on another car, what mechanic or buyer is going to call the police and see if it was reported stolen?

Years ago they attempted to steal mine. They must have gotten interrupted or something. At first I though my muffler was bad as the SUV was really loud. The shop told me they had started to cut the pipe. They welded it for 20 bucks so I was lucky.

It seems like they target SUVs as they are much easier to get under.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by suemarkp »

Daughter's Prius get hers stolen from the parking lot where she works. Insurance covered it all and the whole inspection, replacement, and rental car was about $3K. I believe a Prius cat is well over $1000 if you buy a factory part. Aftermarket would be around $400. In some states you can't have a shop install one that isn't California compliant (I think WA is that way, as we adopted California emissions rules and require cars be sold here that meet the Cali rules).

Aftermarket ones are cheaper because they have much less palladium and rhodium in them. They'll work for a while, but who knows how long. Not sure what the design life is for a cat. Would need to be at least 8 years because of most emissions warranties. The Prius was a 2009.

Palladium is currently $2,600/oz. Rhodium is $17,500/oz. Palladium used to be half the price of gold. Rhodium fluctuates all over the place, but typically averaged $2000/oz. I've kicked myself for not buying an ounce when it was under $1000 in 2016. Its these crazy prices for platinum group metals that is causing this. Diesel engines use more platinum based cats, and the price of platinum has been in the dumps -- it is almost under $1000/oz again. So diesel engines should be safer unless the thief is dumb.
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Marseille07
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Marseille07 »

almostretired1965 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:53 am So if it only cost $100 to get a replacement, how much money could a thief possibly get from a shady scrap metal shop for the precious metal to justify the work/risk? Am I missing something?
The original poster's comparison is way off the mark. The thieves are stealing your "good" cat full of precious metals. The suggested $100 replacement is some wal-mart knockoff not supported by the manufacturer. It might "run," I don't know, but not at all restoring the original state pre-theft.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Dregob »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:28 pm My municipality is hosting a catalytic converter theft prevention (2nd annual) first come first serve for 4 hours. It's done in conjunction with the police department and will be done at the Public Works Garage. It's free of charge. This is an attempt to reduce the number of catalytic converters stolen and resold.

They etch the vin number into the catalytic converter to reduce the likelihood of being resold and/or to report to police.

I'm planning on going tomorrow morning to have this done.

Is there any reason NOT to do this? (i.e., can they accidentally screw anything up??) My car is not one of the desired cars thieves are stealing (see below), but I have a Saturn and since they're not making these cars anymore perhaps there is a desire for parts??
The event is free of charge and open to the public. A team of men and women from the ___________ City Bureau of Police and City of ________ Public Works will work together to have Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN) etched onto the catalytic converters of participating vehicles. Catalytic Converters are known to contain some precious and valuable materials and are a frequent target of theft among the criminal element. We have observed a recent uptick in thefts of Catalytic Converters in both the City of __________ and ____________ County. Having your VIN etched onto this valuable auto part is a deterrent against theft and makes it nearly impossible for thieves to re-sell those stolen parts. The process of etching the VIN should only take 10-15 minutes once your car is into the garage and up on a lift. This is a first come, first served event, no appointment necessary. Some vehicle types are more commonly victimized for this type of theft. They include Honda Pilot, Honda Element, and Toyota Prius. Come on out, meet some of the amazing staff and detectives who work hard to keep our City safe!
It would be just as helpful to ask them to etch "Do Not Steal This Catalytic Converter" on it.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

thanks all. we decided not to go yesterday. and no, i don't have any outstanding warrants for my arrest.
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MortgageOnBlack
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by MortgageOnBlack »

This is becoming a huge problem in the Denver area. I'm almost seeing Daily posts on the NextDoor app. The Prius appears to be the highest target along with SUVs/Trucks (most likely due to convenience of access).

Apparently, a catalytic converter is fetching anywhere from $250-$1500 on the blackmarket depending on make/model it was pulled from.
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illumination
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by illumination »

Same tool to cut the converter off can probably scrape off the etching.

I think a lot of the same people that are buying these on the scrap market are probably skirting all sorts of laws and won't care about the etching anyway.

I can maybe see the usefulness of a program like this to trace where things are going and probably go after places that are taking stolen converters for a police department, but I doubt this does anything for someone to prevent one getting stolen.

Going after companies that buy these on the scrap market is where law enforcement should make their focus. They cracked down in my area on things like copper scrap because homes were getting ruined when some junkie would steal $10 worth of pipe in a vacant home.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by nalor511 »

almostretired1965 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:53 am So if it only cost $100 to get a replacement, how much money could a thief possibly get from a shady scrap metal shop for the precious metal to justify the work/risk? Am I missing something?

bi0hazard wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:28 pm
TimeRunner wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:34 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:42 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:55 pm

The shape, size, metal content are all different, not just the make / model but even the generation of a car (like Prius 2nd gen vs 3rd gen). Also, once the cat is stolen the owner has to dish out 3000~4000 to get a new one installed. This whole ordeal isn't easy at all.
The original cat doesn’t matter. It just doesn’t . Price for new is about a hundred bucks , plus welding/minor pipe fabrication fees , unless it’s a bolt on.
Looked it up at AutoZone for my 2009 Honda Element in California. $1,314.99 plus welding/minor pipe fabrication fees, not including O2 sensor. Ouch.
Super, you found a really expensive one. I didn’t say they don’t get pricey . I swapped in a $1900 high performance HJS cat into my bmw , but for purposes of this topic, we’re gonna shoot for the cheapest possible universal cat converter. Very quick search yields a $89.95 49 state converter, and $210.29 California converter at Walmart. The aim here is to pass inspection and not have “check engine light” come on, once you replace your stolen equipment. :sharebeer
Production vehicles have to be compliant with whatever the most stringent state is (California?) they do not put different parts based on the state the car is sold. So let's say street value is ~$150, some drug addict is happy to spend under 5 minutes cutting off your cat for that $150. They smash and grab car windows sometimes for $0, but the chance for a large payout
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

Having the catalytic converter stolen has been a problem in my area for more than a couple of years...

It's a densely populated urban area with lots of cars parked on the streets (which is weird because most houses have 2 car garages.... I guess the garage is filled with "stuff" so no place to park).

The thieves seem to come and go - they will target an area and then return a month or two later and hit another area - rinse and repeat.

I keep my car in my garage - which isn't really a solution - since about 8 years ago - a band of thieves came thru and broke into every garage in an 8 block area. They pulled car batteries and anything they thought was of value out of the garages. EAch alley had a pile of "stuff they didn't want" left in the middle of the Alley.
The thieves cut the battery out of what was then my brand new car - causing about 2500 in damage (that's what it cost to get the wiring replaced - there aren't "battery cables" like in the olden days). They thankfully left all the valuable to me stuff in my garage (some homemade hard to replace things and some other "junk" that's not really junk.). I keep the homemade stuff and the "junk" in the basement now.

The rumor was that it took the thieves less than an hour from start to finish. It was rumored that perhaps when they finished here they drove to next suburb and hit an area there - and continued thru the night....
Last edited by LittleMaggieMae on Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by TnGuy »

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tsohg
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by tsohg »

Waste of time.

Reminds me of the people that bring their kids' halloween candy to the local fire department to check for poison/tampering/razor blades/whatever. :oops:
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by fposte »

I got a steel shield bolted on over mine. Our area's cat thieves aren't quite as determined as some I've heard of, so I'm hoping it will discourage them. There are people on the Prius subreddit who've been hit two and even three times, and there's a wait for replacements to boot.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Nicolas »

Another argument in favor of EVs.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by dukeblue219 »

tsohg wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:13 pm Waste of time.

Reminds me of the people that bring their kids' halloween candy to the local fire department to check for poison/tampering/razor blades/whatever. :oops:
Except catalytic converter theft is at least real, and nearly commonplace in some areas. The candy thing is just garbage.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by TimeRunner »

We had the Cat Security cat shield installed on our Honda Element, which is a popular target for cat theft due to easy access to the cat. Replacing one in California along with the O2 sensors is thousands of dollars for a Calif ARB approved cat. Cat theft is rampant along the coast. "Gone in 90 seconds."
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Valuethinker »

hi_there wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:44 pm The only reason I can think of, other than your time, is that it might look kind of crappy. This sort of theft has never even crossed my mind and I doubt that it occurs in any meaningful frequency where I live. The risk that I perceive is so low that even cosmetic issues in a really obscure location on the vehicle would deter me from having this etching done.

Well it is not low risk in big cities (London, in my case). As other posters have noted, it's a (big) thing in many places. Being stolen right out of peoples' driveways around here (or from in front of their houses).

The main advantage I can see is that it makes selling the converter to a scrap merchant marginally harder. However, I doubt most scrap merchants are so scrupulous as to refuse to buy a converter that happens to have a bit where the VIN was, missing.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by jym »

The purpose and value of these programs (and things like bike registration) is often misunderstood. No, seeing a registration mark is not going to scare a thief away from under your car. No, a registration mark is not going to make it much harder for a thief to fence stolen property.

The point is that a successful registration program makes it easy to prosecute thieves when they're caught with the goods, and not just when they're caught in the act. It turns your pickup bed of parts from "clearly stolen but we can't prove it" into "slam dunk felony theft." That's the risk that discourages activity.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by andypanda »

They are trying bright spray paint here. Cheap, fast and easier to see in the dark when they crawl under the vehicle. We will see how it works.

www.nbc12.com/2022/10/20/police-crackin ... ray-paint/

"In an attempt to crack down on these thefts, law enforcement agencies are partnering up with Midas of Richmond with a simple solution by spray painting your car’s catalytic converter."
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by like2read »

Ah, duplicate of earlier post.


Big news today on this topic. Hopefully this scourge will be much reduced.

A theft ring that allegedly made millions from catalytic converters has been busted https://www.npr.org/2022/11/03/11337884 ... =18&f=1001
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by enad »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:28 pm My municipality is hosting a catalytic converter theft prevention (2nd annual) first come first serve for 4 hours. It's done in conjunction with the police department and will be done at the Public Works Garage. It's free of charge. This is an attempt to reduce the number of catalytic converters stolen and resold.

They etch the vin number into the catalytic converter to reduce the likelihood of being resold and/or to report to police.
There was a special where the people who steal them or receive them will grind the etch off, even the spray paint can come off rather quickly with a paint remover. Something needs to be done but not sure that is the answer given how easy it is to grind it out
Last edited by enad on Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by bob60014 »

andypanda wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:09 am They are trying bright spray paint here. Cheap, fast and easier to see in the dark when they crawl under the vehicle. We will see how it works.

www.nbc12.com/2022/10/20/police-crackin ... ray-paint/

"In an attempt to crack down on these thefts, law enforcement agencies are partnering up with Midas of Richmond with a simple solution by spray painting your car’s catalytic converter."
Doing the same in the Chicago area too. We'll see.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by chinchin »

How does spray painting it prevent theft and subsequent melting down?
not financial advice
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

chinchin wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:00 pm How does spray painting it prevent theft and subsequent melting down?
here's what they say/think:
If that doesn’t work, garages those thieves sell the converter to be recycled will hopefully also pick up on the trend and notice if one has been stolen based on the paint.

“The idea here is that the recyclers who come to me to buy these cats if they see them painted, that will hopefully stop the flow back upstream for the cats to get remanufactured,” Mark Smith, with Midas Richmond, said. “It’s a great idea and a simple idea. We just need the public to get behind it.”

source: https://www.nbc12.com/2022/10/20/police ... ray-paint/
Last edited by arcticpineapplecorp. on Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Marseille07 »

chinchin wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:00 pm How does spray painting it prevent theft and subsequent melting down?
I don't want to assert, but most likely it doesn't.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by jayjayc »

They allegedly made about $545 million from the process, the Justice Department said.
I'm guessing someone else will step into the void and capture the market.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by ExTx »

I got assigned to chase catalytic converter and other metal thefts for a year. Don't waste your time.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by andypanda »

He said "chase" and it reminded me of a local case with a happy ending.

www.wric.com/news/crime/man-steals-cata ... ld-police/

An off duty police officer working a private job saw some suspicious goings on and during the chase one of guys ended up at the bottom of a 30-foot ravine. Talk about a lack of situational awareness, I suppose the guy didn't know he was in the Falling Creek Division. His buddy ran off and left him.

"The Chesterfield County Fire and EMS’ technical rescue unit responded to the scene showed up to help recover Branch from the ravine."

The pic of the guy shows him wearing a cheap neck brace and looking a little rough.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Cosmo »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:28 pm My municipality is hosting a catalytic converter theft prevention (2nd annual) first come first serve for 4 hours. It's done in conjunction with the police department and will be done at the Public Works Garage. It's free of charge. This is an attempt to reduce the number of catalytic converters stolen and resold.

They etch the vin number into the catalytic converter to reduce the likelihood of being resold and/or to report to police.

I'm planning on going tomorrow morning to have this done.

Is there any reason NOT to do this? (i.e., can they accidentally screw anything up??) My car is not one of the desired cars thieves are stealing (see below), but I have a Saturn and since they're not making these cars anymore perhaps there is a desire for parts??
The event is free of charge and open to the public. A team of men and women from the ___________ City Bureau of Police and City of ________ Public Works will work together to have Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN) etched onto the catalytic converters of participating vehicles. Catalytic Converters are known to contain some precious and valuable materials and are a frequent target of theft among the criminal element. We have observed a recent uptick in thefts of Catalytic Converters in both the City of __________ and ____________ County. Having your VIN etched onto this valuable auto part is a deterrent against theft and makes it nearly impossible for thieves to re-sell those stolen parts. The process of etching the VIN should only take 10-15 minutes once your car is into the garage and up on a lift. This is a first come, first served event, no appointment necessary. Some vehicle types are more commonly victimized for this type of theft. They include Honda Pilot, Honda Element, and Toyota Prius. Come on out, meet some of the amazing staff and detectives who work hard to keep our City safe!

The problem with this is "cut first, ask questions later". The thief isn't going to take the time to check for VIN number etching. If after they already remove it, they may be discouraged to sell it but how does that help you?
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by rob »

I don't think it does any harm outside of the police working on real things that make a difference.... MIGHT limit the resale of stolen cats but I suspect not since who goes under the car to inspect any work done looking for engravings.... plus 10 secs with a grinder I bet would just remove it anyway.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by JackoC »

jym wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:56 am The purpose and value of these programs (and things like bike registration) is often misunderstood. No, seeing a registration mark is not going to scare a thief away from under your car. No, a registration mark is not going to make it much harder for a thief to fence stolen property.

The point is that a successful registration program makes it easy to prosecute thieves when they're caught with the goods, and not just when they're caught in the act. It turns your pickup bed of parts from "clearly stolen but we can't prove it" into "slam dunk felony theft." That's the risk that discourages activity.
I agree that's the logical theory by which why these programs *could* have an effect. The 'supply chain' at the end of which the item is melted down or reused usually includes people other than the direct thieves who may value plausible deniability that they are involved in criminal activity (even if they know they are). And the direct thieves also have a little more risk holding a marked item till they offload it compared to risk only at the crime scene when stealing an item that can't be identified. If you set up the straw man that the program is intended to eradicate theft of converters or bikes then obviously it won't accomplish that. But might it make a difference in how likely it is a marked item would be stolen if most items aren't marked? Seems like it might, but subject to research actually showing that. If it's easy to remove the marks though would seem a more weighty factor against these programs than just pointing out that the item eventually disappears.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by homebuyer6426 »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:55 pm once the cat is stolen the owner has to dish out 3000~4000 to get a new one installed.
I think this varies a lot. I had to get one replaced this year and paid $1300 for parts and labor.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Marseille07 »

homebuyer6426 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:48 pm I think this varies a lot. I had to get one replaced this year and paid $1300 for parts and labor.
Was it an authentic cat from the manufacturer? I haven't tried looking but I heard Wal-mart and Target technically sell cats, and they're a lot cheaper than the authentic cats.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by 8foot7 »

When I steal cats, I always avoid the etched ones, so this might be effective.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by Doom&Gloom »

8foot7 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:01 pm When I steal cats, I always avoid the etched ones, so this might be effective.
Aha! Finally an honest thief!

:wink:
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by StevieG72 »

I don't think it will impact the likelihood of your convertor getting stolen or not.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by homebuyer6426 »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:53 pm
homebuyer6426 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:48 pm I think this varies a lot. I had to get one replaced this year and paid $1300 for parts and labor.
Was it an authentic cat from the manufacturer? I haven't tried looking but I heard Wal-mart and Target technically sell cats, and they're a lot cheaper than the authentic cats.
Aftermarket. That's probably the reason.
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Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by MillennialFinance19 »

This is generally pointless. I'm not a thief, but I could grind the etching off in less than 30 seconds with a cordless grinder, which nearly everyone owns. Heck, they're already using a cordless reciprocating saw to cut it off, so I'm sure it's in their toolbox already!

I have a friend whose apartment complex was struck - they stole a total of like six Toyota Tacoma converters in one night. He's been looking around and they make some "theft prevention" devices that would make stealing one quite hard. Note that he's had a rental car for 5 months now because Tacoma converters are in short supply (shocking)!

TLDR; skip etching.
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pahkcah
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: any reason NOT to get my catalytic converter etched through my local police dept

Post by pahkcah »

My son owns a Prius, which is notorious for being the most affected model in DC where he lives. He chose the metal plate cover as a solution. They can be made of aluminum (less costly but not as effective) or stainless steel. Price, including installation, is roughly $300-$500. Here's a recent article on ways to try and prevent theft of catalytic converters:

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loan ... er-thieves
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